And in the first place I think it ought to be taken away because it is unlawfull to have a set Form of Prayer impos'd upon the Church F. P. Either you or I Sir are strangely mistaken in this point for I must own that my Judgment always hath been that it is not onely lawfull to have a set Form of Prayer in the Church but what is more that no Church can well be without one E. D. Pray how so Sir For if I be not greatly mistaken you speak now against the General sense of the French Protestants for I never heard that they had any set Forms of Prayer F. P. I perceive Sir you have been ill inform'd concerning these matters for the truth is we French Protestants have a Common-prayer-book which was compos'd by Calvin himself and therein we agree with the concurring practise of the Universal Church for I never read or heard of any Church in the World but had a set Form of Prayer so that for you to oppose it is no less than to deny the Authority Testimony and Practise of all the Saints of the Old and New Testaments both Prophets and Apostles and the express Command of our Saviour himself and in a word Sir you condemn the general sense and practise of Christianity and the Holy Catholick Church E. D. I hear what you say Sir and expect you should prove it F. P. Nay more than this you contradict the Example of our great Lord and Master the Founder of our Religion and the Author and Finisher of our Faith E. D. This is a high Charge indeed but pray be pleas'd to make it out F. P. That I will Sir First I say that you contradict the Authority and Practice of the Prophets in the Old Testament forasmuch as it is evident that they made use of set Forms of Prayer and had a particular Command so to doe to be convinc'd of this be pleas'd to reade the 26th Chapter of Deuteronomy from Verse 13. to 16. and the 14th Chapter of Hosea beginning at the second Verse Take with you words and turn unto the Lord and say unto him c. and the 2d of Joel Verse 17. Let the Priests the Ministers of the Lord weep between the Porch and the Altar and let them say Spare thy people O Lord c. Secondly You contradict the Command of our Lord and Saviour and the Practice of the holy Apostles which I prove from the 11th Chapter of St. Luke the 1st and 2d Verses where we reade that one of our Saviour's Disciples asked him in the Name of all his Companions to teach them to pray as John had taught his Disciples whereupon our Saviour addressing himself to all his Disciples said When ye pray say Our Father c. From whence I infer these two things First That the Apostles had a set Form of Prayer prescrib'd them by Christ himself for it is impossible to order any Form in more plain and express terms than our Saviour makes use of in recommending this Prayer to his Disciples Secondly I conclude from hence that the Disciples made use of this Form which will not be question'd if we consider the great desire they shewed to obtain this Form of Prayer from our Saviour and the readiness wherewith they always obeyed the Commands he laid upon them So that this cannot but be a sufficient proof to any thinking Man that when they prayed they made use of this Form or Prescription their blessed Lord and Master had at their request given them with this express Command When you pray say Our Father c. 3. You oppose the General Practice of Christendom and of the Holy Catholick Church because neither your self nor any Man else can give an instance of any Church in the World from the Apostles times to these our days but what had a set Form of Prayers for though all have not used the same yet there is no Church but has used some Form or other 4. You condemn the Example and Practice of our dear Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ himself for it is evident that he himself made use of a Form of Prayer Matt. 26. v. 44. E. D. I will not undertake now to return you a particular Answer to what you have here alledged but shall onely say that Praying by a Form has by experience been found a hindrance and obstacle to true fervent Prayer in the Spirit and to deal plainly with you this seems to be one great reason why the Ministers of the Church of England are so dull and ignorant in this point and so little acquainted with spiritual Prayer F. P. I am not a little surpriz'd at this your Answer for having but just now proved to you that the Prophets and Apostles the Holy Catholick Church and Christ himself made use of Forms of Prayer you after all this come and tell me that Praying by Forms is a hindrance to Praying by the Spirit which is as much as to say that neither the Prophets Apostles the Catholick Church nor Christ himself prayed by the Spirit because they made use of a set Form which is a near step to Blasphemy E. D. I did not design to say so much neither though I must confess that Praying by a set Form seems to me for I find it so by experience to be a great Obstacle to true spiritual Prayer F. P. Though it may seem so to you yet your Charity should lead you rather to question your own Judgment than to pass so rash a Censure upon the Saints of the Old and New Testament yea upon Christ himself besides you ought to be very wary of exposing your self to the derision of all men by supposing your self wiser than all the Prophets and Apostles than the whole Christian Church and Christ himself since it is most certain that they made use of Forms and not onely so but our Saviour himself prescribed a Form of Prayer to his Disciples commanding them when they prayed to use the same which he would never have done had it indeed been so great a hindrance to servent Prayer by the Spirit as you pretend E. D. If it be not a hindrance to others I am sure 't is so to me F. P. I hope I shall understand you better if you please to explain to me what you mean by praying by the Spirit E. D. I suppose no true Christian can be ignorant of what Praying by the Spirit is and therefore I can't see any necessity there is of explaining a thing so obvious to the understanding of all F. P. Since you seem unwilling to give me your meaning I am very free to give you mine to pray by the Spirit is as I take it to pray by the help and assistance of the Holy Ghost so as to have our hearts and minds deeply affected with the sense of our wants and all our Faculties and Affections inflamed with the Love of God and stedfast Faith in his Promises E. D. I perceive we do not
disagree at all in the meaning of the words F. P. I am glad we are so far agreed for it is evident that according to this meaning of the words a set Form of Prayer is so far from being a hindrance that indeed it is a great help to fervent praying by the Spirit and on the contrary Extemporary Prayer must needs be a great impediment to it To convince you of this I desire you would consider that when we pray by a Form we have more time to study the import of our Requests and to weigh and examine every Petition with greater attention we have more leisure to understand and discern our wants and to present them before God we can the better prepare and dispose our selves for so holy a Duty and in a word we can be more intent and recollected to improve the motions of the Spirit having nothing else to doe but to fix our mind wholly on God whilst we are praising of him and have our hearts suitably affected with the things we pray for Whereas in Extemporary Prayer the mind of the Minister or whoever else it is that prayeth is taken up in hunting for expressions to utter his thoughts and for fear of being put to a stand he is forced to follow not the motions of the Spirit or the dictate of his understanding but the fluency of an acquired habit of Praying and by this means doth often begin where he should end and end where he should begin And those very men that speak so much against the necessary and edifying Repetitions that we use in our Common-prayer do very frequently in their Extemporary-prayer repeat the same things over and over again though it may be in different expressions And as for the People that hear a Minister pray an Extemporary-prayer as they do not know before-hand what he will say they must first attend to what he saith in the next place they must consider whether what he prayeth be according to the Word of God and fit for them to join with but whilst the Hearer is thus employ'd he that prays is got to another thing and leaves his Hearers behind to overtake him as they best can which according to my apprehension makes the way of praying extempore so difficult and uneasie that it is morally impossible for both Minister and People to pray so devoutly or at least so understandingly as they ought to doe If you please well to weigh and consider what I have here offered I question not but you will be convinced that a set Form of Prayer is so far from being a hindrance that it is a great furtherance to zealous praying by the Spirit whereas the Prayer you are so much taken with is indeed a great obstacle to it E. D. However Sir I suppose you will grant me that it is this tying themselves up to a Form that hath made the Ministers of the Church of England so dull and devoid of the Gift of Prayer that they cannot pray without Book and may rather be compar'd to those Dumb dogs whom the Prophet reproves than be look'd upon as Ministers of the Gospel F. P. Though I am a Stranger here yet I have very good reason to believe that I am better acquainted with the Ministers of the Church of England than you are and am better inform'd of their parts and abilities than you can be for I have made it my business to be acquainted with them not maliciously to slander and abuse them but to the end I might the better understand and value them and profit by them And if you will give me leave to speak my Judgment which is not grounded upon hear-say but upon good knowledge of and converse with them I must render them this true and unbiass'd testimony That of all the Clergy I ever was acquainted with they are the most Learned and Godly E. D. You are a French man Sir and therefore I suppose that much of this may pass for Compliment F. P. I am indeed a French-man by birth but yet I value my self upon this account that in heart and affection I am a hearty true Englishman And since you are pleas'd to look upon my judgment of the English Clergy no better than a Compliment I challenge you to tell me what Nation in the World can boast of having such great and worthy Divines as we have E. D. Pray how comes it to pass then that they cannot pray F. P. Who told you they could not Sure I am that they both can and do pray and that so excellently that as they surpass those of other Nations for Learning so likewise in Devotion and the Gift of Prayer and if you had taken time to peruse their Books of Devotion you would never have told me as you do That the prescribing of a Form of Prayer has been the occasion why the Ministers of the Church of England are become so dull and ignorant even to that excess that they cannot pray E. D. However I think they are much to blame for that in their Pulpits if they pray at all they dispatch them in so few words that any one that hears them will be apt to conclude they cannot pray but should you once come to our Meetings ay there you would hear Praying indeed F. P. I will not deny but that commonly our Clergy in the Pulpit use onely a short Prayer before Sermon but don 't at all deserve to be blam'd but rather to be commended for so doing if we consider first that our Clergy chuse to make use of a short Prayer onely before Sermon because they have found by wofull Experience that long extemporary Prayers have begot in most People a dislike of the Common-prayer and consequently have been the occasion of those unchristian Animosities Schisms and Divisions that are so rife amongst us And I think you have no just reason to blame this pre-caution of theirs till you have made out first that the People doe well to undervalue and despise the Common-prayer and that the Aversion they have for it is a sufficient ground for Schism and Division A second reason why the Ministers of the Church of England use such short Prayers is that by this means they may condescend to the weakness of the People lest an over-long Prayer should weary those who have already attended upon and join'd their hearts and voices with the publick Prayers offer'd up to God by the Church And in the third and last place we shall find that there is nothing good or usefull for us which the Minister hath not already prayed for nor any thing evil or hurtfull which he has not deprecated in the publick Prayers appointed by the Church which methinks might at least lessen the fault of our Clergy in your sight and somewhat allay the bitterness of your Censure against them And as for your Meetings where you tell me there is Praying indeed I must freely tell you that though I never was at any Meeting in my
we are speaking of had no Power or Authority committed to them to plant or institute a new Religion but onely to reform the Abuses that were crept into the Church and the Corruptions of the publick Worship of God which is the chiefest part of the Christian Religion now in this case it is evident that it was none of their duty or office to take away the whole publick Service or Liturgy which indeed at that time was very corrupt though not to that degree but that some good was still found amongst it but onely to change what was amiss to supply the defects of it and cast away whatsoever was corrupt or superfluous Secondly It was great wisedom in them to observe the mean between two extreams by shunning on the one hand a Spirit of bitterness and hatred against the Party they reformed from and on the other hand avoiding a sinfull compliance with the corruptions of those who were so unwilling to part with their Idolatry and Superstition And farther to illustrate my Argument I must tell you that the Reformers of our Church acted according to this commendable Maxim of Christian Charity and Moderation viz. That in love and condescention to the Church of Rome we ought not to reject any thing used by them but what is found contrary to the Word of God whereas the Reformers of your Party proceed according to this Rule That in hatred and detestation of Popery we ought not to admit the least thing the Papists make use of in their Divine Service and onely for this reason because they use it Now I would fain know of you which of these two you take to be the most Christian and Charitable method and whether the Principle our Reformers went by be not preferable to that of your Party The Reason is evident beyond dispute because our Reformers by retaining what was good and of primitive Purity in the publick Service of the Romanists and rejecting onely what was manifestly corrupt and superstitious they left a door open for them and as it were friendly invited them to leave their Adulterous Church and to enter into our Communion E. D. But pray tell me what great or good effect this Condescension did ever yet produce for I never understood that this their moderate and designing way of Reforming the Church has been a means to persuade the Papists to leave their Idolatry and Superstitions and to become Converts to their Church F. P. If I should grant you that the number of Popish Converts to our Church is not very considerable will it follow from thence that the means used for so good and charitable an End were undue or unlawfull For though God hitherto hath not been pleased to bless these good means with the greatest success that might be wish'd for yet we know not how soon he may especially considering that we had never more reason to expect the total downfall of Popery which according to outward appearance can no way so probably be brought about as by the Papists embracing the Protestant Religion Let us therefore take heed of deriding as you seem to do those lawfull moderate and Christian-like methods the Church of England hath made use to facilitate the Papists Conversion E. D. I find then you take your Common-prayer to be a lawfull moderate and Christian-like method or means to facilitate the Conversion of the Papists F. P. I do so and I question not but in due time it will prove very effectual that way to the stopping of the mouths of all gain-sayers E. D. Ay you may look for it long enough I suppose and if by great change it should ever prove to be an effectual means I dare say for all that it will never be a lawfull one for to speak freely and without mincing the matter I am of opinion that though it may be lawfull to use some Form of Prayer yet it is altogether unlawfull to use that Form which is now in vogue amongst you F. P. Then I find you are not altogether irreconcilable to the Lawfulness of Praying by Forms but you are not satisfied with the Forms we use I shall be glad to hear the Grounds of your dissatisfaction as hoping by this means to have an opportunity offer'd me to enlarge my self more in the Praise of our Common-prayer than hitherto I have had occasion to do E. D. I know the humour of French-men is to be complaisant and complimental and so very probably you design in compliment to the Church of England to fall down to the Common-prayer the great Idol of the English Clergy as you have already express'd your great Respects for their dull and prophane Priests F. P. I beg of you Sir let us discourse without Prejudice or Passion and be so kind as to tell me calmly and friendly what Objections you have against our Common-prayer-book in particular E. D. Before I give you the Particular Objections I have against the Common-prayer-book I shall premise this General Observation That your Common-prayer is so bad that there is nothing good in it no nor any thing that is so much as tolerable F. P. How strangely you and I differ in Opinion As for my part I really think there is nothing in it but what is very good E. D. If you can prove that as I desire you would Eris mihi magnus Apollo for indeed you will do more than all your Clergy-men that ever I discours'd with and more than all the Books that treat of this Subject have been able to do F. P. If the case be so indeed I should be loath to undertake the task For if none of our Clergy that you have discours'd with nor any of those excellent Books written in the Defence of our Liturgy have been able to convince you of the goodness and usefulness thereof it would be folly for me to attempt it for I am very sensible that my Parts and Abilities are far below any one of our Clergy that you have had to deal with and to speak the truth 't is from them and their Writings I have acquired the best part of that little learning and insight into these things that I have E. D. I hope you are as modest a Man as your discourse would import besides being a French Protestant you as such can have neither publick nor private Reason to bear any ill-will to our Party wherefore I look upon you as an unbiass'd Person without Prejudice or Partiality and consequently fit to be discours'd with about the matter in question between us And indeed all this makes me the more desirous to hear the Arguments you can produce for proving your Assertion That there is nothing in the Common-prayer-book but what is very good F. P. I thought all this while that you intended to propound your Objections against the Common-prayer and that my onely business would have been to Answer them E. D. I suppose we may do both these things at once for if you please to tell me