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A40196 The great mistery of the great whore unfolded, and antichrists kingdom revealed unto destruction in answer to many false doctrines and principles which Babylons merchants have traded with, being held forth by the professed ministers, and teachers, and professors in England, Ireland, and Scotland, taken under their owne hands, and from their owne mouths, sent forth by them from time to time, against the despised people of the Lord called Quakers, who are of the seed of that woman, who hath been long fled into wildernes ... in this answer to the multitude of doctrines held forth by the many false sects, which have lost the key of knowledge, and been on foot since the apostles dayes, called Anabaptists, Independents, Presbyters, Ranters, and many others, who out of their own mouths have manifested themselves not to be of a true descent from the true Christian Churches : but it's discovered that they have been all made drunk with the wine of fornication received from the whore which hath sitten upon the beast, after whom the world hath wondred / by George Fox. Fox, George, 1624-1691.; Burrough, Edward, 1634-1662. 1659 (1659) Wing F1832; ESTC R18020 590,130 408

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him by true faith Ans Salvation is purchased to all men that perished in Adam though they do not believe it for he is the Saviour of all men especially of them that do believe and an offering for the sin of the whole world mark the world and doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world that all through him might believe and he that believes not is condemned by Christ the light the life the sacrifice the offering that through death that which in them was the power of death the Devill he destroyed and his power and so entred into his glory all that believe in him have life and all that doth not and receive him not hath not life but are condemned through unbelief Now if if you say that in Adam all dyed I say yes and in Christ all shall be made alive to the Justification of life I say yes as in Adam all dyed as in Christ they come to be made alive so them that are the believers are the holy so the believers children a new creation a new generation new creatures out of Adam in the fall the believers passed from death to life that came by Adam and so in that is a cleane creation and holy generation Pr. All things contained in the Gospell is summed up in the Apostles Creed Ans The Apostles doth not tell us of a creed but the Popes Canon-book and common prayer book and many things the Apostles had to say which was not lawfull to utter and many things Christ had to say they could not beare but the Gospell is the power of God and that the scripture speakes of but doth not say the Epistles is it Pr. God hath manifested himselfe in his word that these three distinct persons are one Ans The word nor the scripture doth not tell us of three distinct persons but it tells us of Father and of Son and of Holy Ghost but indeed as I said before the Popes canon book and Masse-book doth so for the Holy Ghost is not distinct from the Son and the Son is not distinct from the Father but they are all in one Pr. Having our chief hope placed in God being assured that nothing may with draw us from his love Ans Yet you say you are not able to keep the commandements of God perfect then you are drawne from the living God and you are from the chiefest hope Christ for who loves God keepes his commandements and such have the chiefest hope Christ in which the commandement ends here the love goes forth out of the pure heart but is not riches your hope and doth not riches and the glory of the world and the fashions thereof drew your hearts away and your love and hope stand in them and hath taken up the possession of your hearts more then God therefore who keeps them not perfectly keeps them not at all Pr. You say Christ hath ransomed your bodies and your soules from sin and by that one sacrifice of his body he hath redeemed you Ans Are your bodies redeemed and your soules that are immortall and your spirits sanctified and do you glorifie God in your bodies soules and spirits which is the Lords and is there not sin in your bodies and are not your spirits corrupted now who witnesses redemption of the body and soule from sin these are out of the first Adams state and are the holy ones and these be in the end of the law and that which fulfills the Law Christ Jesus but now if you come to say that you have sin in your bodies and the fruits will shew it selfe to persecute or envy rage malice pride or such wickednesse this shewes not the fruits of Redemption Pr. You say That God in Christ hath put out the remembrance of your sins and of your corruptions within you wherein you must fight all your life time Ans Whilst the sins you are fighting withall are not blotted out in your own particulars this is not the life of the Saints they are not fighting all their life time but come to the kingdome of God witnessing sin and iniquity blotted out the everlasting covenant of peace and life with God Pr. You say You are righteous before God through faith though your consciences accuse you for your trespasses against the commands of God being prone to evil yet notwithstanding imbrace the benefits of Christ as if you never had committed any sin or corruption and this is as if you your selves had perfectly compleated the obedience Ans Where the conscience accuses it is impure and that the true faith is out of for the mystery of faith is held in a pure conscience and that is it that receives Christ and which is not prone to evil nor transgresseth the commands of God but you are out of the perfect obedience and out of the faith both and are in the corruption are not the lovers of God nor come to Christ the end of the commandements which is loved in a pure heart and whereas you talke of conscience accusing and yet faith that is your ignorance for faith is held in a pure conscience the conscience doth not accuse but the unsanctified Pr. Not that we please God through the worthinesse of our faith for our works the best of them are imperfect in this life defiled with sin Ans It is faith that brings men to please God which Faith comes from him and gives victory over that men have lived in and not pleased God so faith there is a worthinesse in it it is the gift of God by which men please God and have accesse to to him and they are justified and through it they overcome and subdue mountaines and raise the dead your best workes being imperfect and defiled with sin in this life then they are not wrought in God but out of him in the darknesse they are works of darknesse unperfect defiled with sin are not the workes of darknesse to be condemned for the fire and to be out of the Law and Gospell but the works the Saints works that are in the Faith wrought in love are perfect wrought in God created to good works these are distinct from the unperfect defiled with sin and these good workes the Saints witnessed when they were upon the earth which is the works of Faith which works by love Ans Infants that are baptized belong as well to the covenant and Church of God as they of full age they by baptism being grafted into the Church of God so discerned from the children of Infidels so this baptisme succeeds Circumcision Answ Then by this all Christendom that are baptized are the Church and grafted into the Church Papists and Protestants and all and how is it that your Church is so much in confusion then for you say they are grafted into the Church of God and in the Church of God there is no confusion it is the Pillar and ground of truth without spot or wrinkle and how is it there is such killing
to the language of the Apostle and Christ who bid them be perfect and the Apostle spoke wisdome among them that are perfect and said they were made free from sin And it is the Devill speaking in man that speaks for sin while men are upon earth and speaks for the Devill holds up him who makes men not perfect which Truth makes men free again from the Devil and speaks in man and says be perfect Pr. He saith Christ doth not condemn men for being called of men Master and it is not the title but c. Ans Contrary to Christs words who saith be ye not of men called Master for ye have a Master in heaven even Christ and ye are all brethren And thus he tramples upon the commands and makes the commands of Christ of none effect which is one of the marks that Christ gives to the multitudes to know the hypocrites by and so doth not onely deny Christs commands but teacheth men to break them so crucifies Christ and sayes they are his Ministers but that 's the Antichrist that abides not in his doctrine as in 2 John Pr. And he saith people are tossed up and downe like a bundle of feathers and Novices c. Answ How should they be otherwise but be tossed up and down by you when ye deny perfection of being perfect and calls it the voyce of the Devil speaking that speaks of perfection and overcoming sin How should you but be the men that tosseth people up and down with every slight and blown up and down with your windy doctrine that is not perfect and so bring the Nations and people like unto waters For all the unperfection is out of Christ in the first Adam in sin and transgression and the Devill which is out of the truth and all the perfection is in Christ the second Adam the covenant of God out of sin and transgression and so who are in Christ are new creatures and old things passeth away and all things become new So in the second Adam in the Lord from heaven above the earthly the first man in the perfection out of the tossing that 's your imitated Church got up since the dayes of the Apostles not the true Church Pr. He saith a true Church is guilty of injury c. See page 4. Ans Contrary to the Scriptures where the Apostle saith the Church is the pillar and ground of truth without spot or wrinkle or blemish or any such thing Pr. He saith God hath commanded a sufficient maintenance in generall for Ministers and left it to humane prudence to judge what is sufficient c. see page 7. Ans By this he hath left the spirit to judge and the wisdome of God which acts by his commands and so runs into earthly humane prudence Therefore is there so much oppression for Tythe● and maintenance for Ministers and so much making havock and prisoning and persecuting for the same And the power denied which the Apostles had to eate and to drinke which Christ gave them and so you run into the lust for the money of whom you do no work for and the earth and whilst they coveted after that they lost the faith and that is the cause that people have lost the unity and run all upon heaps Their Teachers have lost the faith through coveting and love of money in which they should have had unity with God and one with another and have pleased him and had accesse to him and have given them victory over the world the Devill enmity and corruption Pr. He saith all that come into the world are lighted with the light of nature See page 7. Ans For so he calls the light which John calls the true light which is Christ that lighteth every man that cometh into the world so is ignorant of Johns doctrine and the Scriptures a man not fit to teach but is gotten up by an usurped authority and is not able to divide the word aright but with the Scriptures thou art corrected and the light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world the naturall lights were made by it the Sun and Moon and so forth And men that are born blinde are enlightned with that Light which was before the Sun was before all things was made which came a light into the world to enlighten every man that all men through it might believe Now all men may see how all men are mad against John Christ and the Apostles doctrine that bore witnesse to the true light and Christ bid believe in it Pr. He talks of and preacheth up an externall word See page 8. Answ Which the Scripture speaks not●ing of nor the Prophets nor Chrrst but saith the word that lives abides and endures for ever and of the Scriptures of truth that cannot be broken And of Gods words and Christs words and that is not external this is not agreeable to sound words that cannot be condemned but that is like his doctrine that knows not the eternal but the Ministers of Christ did not tell people of an externall word but an eternall word but you being made by the will of man speak to the people of an externall Pr. He saith He hath not seen God in glory nor any man c. See page 9. Ans We do believe thee and the Priests have not seen him but the Saints saw him and Job saw him and Isaiah saw him the Lord of hosts and Steven saw him and Abraham saw his glory and the Apostle saw him and beheld his glory the glory of God And you are as the Pharisees that stand against Christ that enlightneth every man that cometh into the world that Christ said never saw the shape of God Pr. He saith The word infallible is the pillar of the Popish Kingdome and the master-point of new Religion c. see page 9. Ans Now thou that calls infallibility a Popish point a new Religion Thy Religion thou hast manifested and thy points that are not infallible contrary to the Apostle who had many infallible proofs of the spirit of Jesus Christ they who have not are none of his and who have the spirit of Christ have that which is infallible and lets them see infallible proofs as thou mayst read in Scripture And who have the spirit of God have that which is infallible And the Religion which is out of the fallibility and out of the spirit of God is vain and there is thine and the Popes as your fruits have declared got up since the dayes of the Apostles in the apostacy fallible but that which is in the spirit of God is infallible Pr. And thou saith Thou hast no such revelation as the Apostles had as thou knowest of and the Apostles were brought to speak infallibly to the Church by an infallible spirit and thou nor the Pope hath no such infallibility as the Apostles had c. see page 10. Answ We do believe you for you are the false spirit you and the Pope that went
the Father and over it gives victory And the word material the Apostle doth not call it so but precious and Jerusalem is come down from heaven and witnessed among the Saints heavenly Jerusalem and the Babes knowes their mother And who are in Christ and Christ in them see it possesseth it But all such as are against the light within which doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world are the Antichrists the false prophets the wolves which have gotten the sheepes cloa●●ing which may deceive the world but not the elect as thy book hath declared ●hee And such Christ said should come and John saw was come and since the dayes of the Apostles the world hath gone after them And they inwardly ravened from the light and so have gotten the Kingdoms of the earth into a profession and form which are now standing against the Light within and gathering against the Lamb and the Saints that are in the light and is the light which they ravened from making War against them but the Lamb and the Saints shall get the victory Pr. He saith And the righteousness of God wrought by Christ for us which need not to be wrought over again in us pag 58. And that Christ our Justification should be in us that dyed and suffered that ascended this he cals a fancy to fancy him in a particuler person Page 59. Answ Whosoever hath not Christ within are Reprobates and whosoever hath Christ within hath the righteousness Now Christ that suffered Christ that was offered up is manifest within and the Saints are of his flesh and of his bone and eat his flesh and drink his blood and not another The Christ that ended the Priesthood ended the offering ended the Temple ended the Law and the first Covenant the seed of God Christ Jesus this manifest within he that hath him hath life Justification Sanctification and Redemption And so Christ the same to day yesterday and for ever who is the hope and the Author of their faith And so all be in the fancy that be out of the state of witnessing Christ that suffered within them and rose again and who be in this they be out of the fancy and shadowes and comes to see where there is no changing but possesseth righteousness glory substance the end of their faith and Christ their hope that remains that abides Pr. He saith There is something of God in man that will render the light which the Quakers speakes of natural Page 67. Answ That which is of God in man captivated viz. life and immortality who are not come to the light will not render the light when he cometh to it through the Gospel naturall which the darknesse now cannot comprehend though in it it shines and that of God in man will not call Christ the light naturall which the Quakers speaks of Pr. He saith Yee may remember in the last times false Christs and false Prophets shall arise and shall bring in damnable heresies c. and will shew signes and wonders and if it were possible they would deceive the very Elect. And such as follow strong delusions and believe lyes and be damned who obey not the Truth nor receive it in the love of it page 68. Answ Christ said false Prophets should come Antichrists should come with signes and wonders which the Apostles saw was come which inwardly ravened and went forth from them which since the dayes of the Apostles they have got the sheeps cloathing and the world is gone after them and have deceived the world by their lying signes and wonders and have brought them to be all on heaps about Religion And the damnable heresie and the lying signes and wonders and strange delusions yee may look into the whole Christendome among your selves and your own stock of Papists For none obeys the Truth but who owns the Light that doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world which cometh from Christ the truth and all false Prophets are from that and all Antichrists are from that which hath reigned since the dayes of the Apostles in the apostacy and inwardly ravened have gotten the sheeps cloathing which have made war against the Saints and overcome them but now to that which they ravened from are the Saints come And the woman hath been in the wilderness and the man-child is brought forth to rule the Nations with a rod of Iron And all such now that inwardly ravened from the Light are standing up against the Lamb and the Saints But the Lamb and the Saints have the victory and the rej●ycing over the Beast and false Prophet is come who kills and slayes with the sword which is the words of his mouth And the Saints which are with him their weapons are spiritual And none lifts up the Son of God as the Serpent was lifted up in the Wildernesse but as every one is in the Light that the Son of God hath enlightned him withall and then they know him that draws all men after him Thomas Moor In his Booke called An Antidote c. Are these Principles following Pr. HE saith God doth not give the Revelation of these things now immediately as he did by the first Apostles nor in such manner as he did to the Prophets of old See his Epistle Answ All that have the Scriptures and are Ministers and not by the same power and spirit as the Apostles was in knows not the Scriptures and all who be in it are in the immediate and in that which reveals and in that which fathoms all the Ministers of the Letter who saith God doth not give forth now immediately as he did to the Prophets and Apostles Since the dayes of the Apostles in the apostacy such as have ravened inwardly from the spirit of God the time of Antichrist Beast and false Prophets reign and the mother of Harlots who have had the sheeps cloathing such immediate Revelation hath been hid from them and such should continue untill the words of God was fulfilled and the fulfilling of the Prophets But now is the fulfilling of the words of God and that come into which the Prophets and Apostles was in with which that is seen and known and him that hath been slain from the foundation of the world Pr. He saith To looke to the Light within that is in opposition to looking at Jesus That the light in every man is naturall And if yee turne your eye inward ye shall presently see their mover and teacher and this he calls foolish and Antichristian And saith That no man hath in him as of him that light spirit and wisdome in the inward parts See his Epistle Answ All upon the earth that ever comes to the knowledge of the glory of God they come to the light in them which doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world which light was before any naturall lights was made or created which light gives the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ Jesus and
persecuted the people of God because they met there and banished them out of their Town this doth not shew the spirit of Christ nor the love of God among you but the works of the Pharisees and Cain And thou never knew the Gospell that denies the Light of Christ that hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world withall but found among the Monkish-holinesse thou speaks of and the Pharisees and the Papists for the Pharisees the Papists and you do not own the light Christ Jesus that enlightens every man that cometh into the world so with the Light you are all comprehended and condemned in one body Not to be true believers that believes in the true Christ the Light who bids people believe in the light that doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world that all men through him might believe that 's the end that he that doth might be saved and that he that doth not might be condemned Pr. Thou saith The Saints laid down their estates at the Apostles feet A. Now you Priests say you are Ministers of Christ and the Gospel and you are fain to cast men into Prisons because they will not put into your mouths Now all people may see that you have a contrary power to the Apostles for when did a people your hearers lay down all at your feet N●y you are fain to cast into Prisons hale before Courts a hundred or two hundred miles and take treble damages Now do you not think that most people begin to see you apostatized from the Apostles and the power that they were in with which you are fathomed and with the life the Apostles were in are you judged And whereas thou speaks of Circumcision and tells people that they that are circumcised cannot be saved the Quakers bring no people to circumcision but that of the spirit which puts off the body of sin which you say they must have while they be upon the Earth and so hath ravened from the spirit of Circumcision and such keeps people in the covenant of works from the spirit within that puts off the body of sin And as for all the rest of thy torne confused Stuffe w●ich is given forth from thy v●in thoughts it is not worthy the mentioning But in the day of thy judgement the witnesse in thy conscience shall answer it and all thy Works is fewell for the Fire Priest Bennets Looking-glasse These are some of his Principles following Pr. JAmes asks the question Can one fountain send forth sweet water and bitter He sayes it 's a new fancy to say there 's a light in every man which will guide him to salvation He sayes there is a fancy of perfection A. One fountain cannot send forth sweet w●ter bitter and yet it 's bitter to them that be in the transgression for the righteousness● of God being revealed to the wicked is a terrour to him which the righteousness of God being revealed to the Saints is their joy and the truth which speaking truth to the dec●ipt it 's bitter to him but to the Just it is not and the light that doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world Christ Jesus the salvation to the ends of the earth Thou art in the fancy that stumbles at this corner-stone and this light that enlightneth every man is the perfection of beauty and they that be out of this be in the fancy of a perfection where thou may see thy self and the Pharisees that stood against Christ the Light the covenant of God promised to Jewes and Gentiles though they had Scriptures them thou art like that art now at the Light stumbling at which they did so a mark of an unbeliever one that hath the forme but denies the power and art not a Preacher of that which people should believe in that is the Light Pr. The Scriptures are the Lanthorns of Israel The Scriptures are the wisdome of the Crosse Answ The Word of God is the Lanthorn of Israel as sayes David and Christ Jesus is the wisdome of the crosse Christ the wisdome of God and the crosse of Christ the power of God And Abraham had a Lanthorn and Enoch and Abel before Scriptures was written forth Pr. Thou saith The corruptions of the damned in Hell shall never be destroyed and it would be good newes if the Quakers should go and preach to the spirits in Hell And thou sayes David would open his mouth in darke sayings of old Answ The Scriptures and Davids words to thee that art in darknesse they are dark but not to them that be in the Light And the Quakers have been among the prisoners that be in Hell and ministred to that and the corruptions shall go into the Fire that hath no end and they that do wickedly and forget God sh●l● go into Hell and Death an● Hell shall go into the lake of fire and there 's more in these words yet then thou canst receive For God is the salvation of all men but especially them that believe But I must tell thee thou and thy flesh is for the fi●e thou art speaking of And when thou art burning in it remember thy judgement in thy life time and what thou didst And the end of Ezekiel is known and the Prophets and Moses Christ Jesus the Saviour and Redeemer of the world Pr. That a naturall man may preach the Gospel in the History And thou brings Judas for an example Thou saist Christ said destroy yee this Temple and I will build another Answ That which led Judas to minister was not naturall for the same condemned him when he went from Christ And a naturall man cannot preach the History of the Gosp●ll truly for he cannot receive it but naturall men are giving other meanings to it that brings all the confusion in the world about the Scriptures For Judas was made partaker of the Ministry and when he went to the Priests from Christ then he was condemned And Christ did not say Destroy ye this Temple thou perverts his wo ds Neither did he say he would raise up another of Lime and Stone and wood which you dark Priests of the world blinde peoples eyes withall but he meant the Temple of his body in whom God dwelt which the outward Temple was a figure of Pr. That it 's an absurdity to say the Light is in every man to teach him Answ The light that doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world which is Christ Jesus is the Teacher and he that believes in it receives Christ and it teaches him that hates it to see his evill deeds to see his evill wayes and he hates it because it reproves him because his deeds are evill and so hates Christ and hates his Teacher and sets up Teachers without him and doth not come to receive the anointing within him and so that light is his condemnation and so he sees not Christ the head Pr. Thou saith The Ministers may receive a courtesie and the Scripture thou brings
to justification sanctification and righteousness Answ None comes to Justification to Righteousnesse who are out of the fear of God nor to receive his righteousnesse but who comes to the light within which comes from Christ the righteousnesse the wisdome the justification and sanctification and ye be in the errour that be not in this Light that leads too and le ts see it Pr. Perfection in holiness cannot be attained in this life for Adam was under such a Covenant he had no Mediator upon the breach of the command Ans God said to Adam the seed of the Woman should bruise the Serpents head Christ the Promise the Mediator made the way which was the way in again to God of mans redemption and got down the Serpents head which got up in transgression that Christ the head should bear rule that the seed of the woman should have dominion the second Adam the seed Christ Jesus the Lord from heaven Perfection is not to be attained to by the life ye live untill ye come to the principle of God in you but the life that David lived in saw an end of all perfection And all who come to Christ the second Adam they come to perfection and all who attain to him they attain to perfection in the life of God out of the first Adam but who deny the light that enlightneth every man that cometh into the world and rest in the first Adam the life they live in denies perfection and never owns it in the life they live in But who comes into perfection comes into Christ a new life out of Adam in the Fall in transgression All Physitians to sick men are to make them perfect And do yee say make none whole make none perfect make never a man perfect For being made whole they are made perfect for sin wounds for the Ministery of God was to bring people to the perfect man to present them perfect These were Physitians of value and of worth whereby the body soule spirit and all were cured and they glorified God in the body and spirit Now yee that say they shall not be perfect and that none shall be without sin upon the earth no perfection in the life we live in These are Physitians of no value yee are not worthy to have the name of Physitians Ministers nor Teachers Thomas Weld Richard Prideaux Samuel Hammond William Cole and William Durant for yee are pleading while men be upon earth they must have a body of sin and he that saith otherwayes is a deceiver and so ye keep them in their wounds and sores putrifying and imperfect and not makers up of the breach and binders up of the wound And the Lord saith Though their sins be as red as crimson I will make them as white as wool and will blot out sin and transgression And this tender love and kindnesse of the Lord and mercifulness to sinners transgressors hath the Lord made manifest amongst them which the world in scorn calls Quakers and it is not a strange thing that you would not have people to forsake the fashions of the world who are thus hung about with ribbons and cuffs and scarfs and your double Boot-hose-tops and more like unto Stage-players then Ministers Pr. Perfection is a fancy those were not words of true Physitians who brought men to a perfect man to the growth up in perfection amongst the perfect ones who speak wisdome They say It is no where said that the Law is fulfilled in any Saints in this life Answ They that love God keep his Commandements Christ is the end of the Law to every one that believes and who be in him be in the end of the Law And all that dwell in love dwell in God and love is the fulfilling of the commandement who are of the seed of God keep the words of God which the Beasts and false Prophets since the dayes of the Apostles who have inwardly ravened and turned against the royall seed of God and keep the Commandements of God and so none of you that raven from the spirit of God cannot keep Gods commandements though ye have all the Saints words for the Saints witnesse the end of the Law and witness perfection and a perfect man and spoke wisdome among them that were perfect and growing up to perfection Pr. That Christ gives to every man a saving light we utterly deny Answ He is the true light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world saith John the Minister of God and he is salvation to the ends of the earth and they that hate the light neglect their salvation and turns the grace of God into wantonness and denies the Lord that bought them And every one that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to the Sonne and none heareth or cometh to the Father that cometh not to the Son But who comes to the thing that is transgressed in them and the light that every man that cometh into the world is enlightened withall nor hears nor learns of the Father nor comes to the Son but by that and the light that lighteneth every one that cometh into the world is the salvation to him that believes and he that doth not it is his condemnation Pr. But how dare these men lift up themselves in their blasphemous pride to say they are pure as God Answ Doth not Christ say Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect is that blasphemy and to be holy as I am holy is that blasphemy whose Ministers are you is not this the work of Christ and the Apostle without Holiness ye shall never see God and as he is so are we in this present world Pr. The word of God is contained in the Scriptures Ans The Scripture saith God is the word and the heaven of heavens cannot contain him are ye not more like void of reason then Ministers whose ignorance thus appears of the Scriptures which saith God is the word and the Scripture is the words and Christ is the word who fulfills them Pr. The Scriptures were given forth some more darkly some plainer Answ They which gave forth Scripture and they that be in that in which it ends to them the Scripture is not dark but such as be from the Principle of God in their own selves they be darkness so darkness happens to them which blinds their minds and the Scriptures was not given forth darkly but in the light but you who be from the light be dark Pr. The Apostles ordained them elders by a mediate call and we are convinced clearly of a mediate call to the work of the ministry and of the word Answ That which made the Officers and overseers in the Church amongst the Saints before the Apostasie It was the Holy-Ghost which holy men spoke Scripture from that made them Overseers that was not mediate but immediate that did oversee in the Church of God And we do believe that you Elders and Members called Ministers are all mediate and
the Gospel from charge are not you six thousand men ashamed to Petition for a maintenance for your Ministers that you should publish in a Petition your nakedness to a supream power of a Nation that you are not able to maintain your Ministry that the Churches are not able to maintain their Ministers doth not this shew your beggarliness and to be of the seed that is begging bread which the Scriptures saith the righteous are not forsaken nor their seed begging bread and in this have you not shamed your Ministers that they have no better vineyards plowes and flayls or did ever the Apostles or their hearers when they came into a Nation Petition to the powers of the earth for means Pr. And ye say where any man will not do justly and pay the labourer the wages he owes him The Magistrate must see justice done or else I know not what he hath to doe Answ The Apostles Ambassadors and messengers of the Lord Jesus Christ which were to go to all the Nations to Preach the Gospel they had not a Law at the Magistrates hands to give them wages hale their hearers before them to give them wages or put up Petitions before every Supream of the Nation before whom they came this was not the work of the Apostles messengers and Disciples who were to go into all Nations to Preach the Gospel when they had Preached the Gospel to the Nation they did not Petition to the Supream powers of the Nation Powers or Principalities or Kings for maintenance from their hearers as you do now Oh! this stinks and shewes it is out of the power which the Apostles disciples and messengers of the Lord Jesus Christ were in For they would have made their Gospel to have stunk if they had come into all Nations to Preach the Gospel and then after they had Preached it if their hearers would not have given them maintenance to have Petitioned to the Supream authority of the Nation and have haled their hearers into Courts to Assizes Sessions and Benches would this have been glad tydings to the Nations or trouble to the Nations and have been but deceivers and pretenders of glad tydings and bringers of trouble to the Nation and seekers of themselves and for themselves and not to do the work which the Lord Jesus Christ sent them about Preachers of the Gospel that live of the Gospel might use their power and would not and the power of God is the same now as ever it was and it tries all the spirits that are gone out into the world which have Apostated since the dayes of the Apostles out of the Apostles power and now with the power the Apostles were in are they comprehended which are gone out of the power which the Apostles were in Pr. And ye speak of Jonas temptation and yet of your comfort in your studies Answ The power that Jonas was in ye are far off or them that are to divide the word aright but swallowed up in the great temptation of the world pride and covetousness in that are ye drowned and hard heartedness as the Goales in the Nation are your witness such as cannot give you maintenance and such as are moved of the Lord God to come and speak to you by you are cast into Goal which shewes that you are in another power then the Apostle was in who said quench not the spirit and the Prophet was in who said Limit not the holy One and denying prophesie so now your power and authority to your Ministry with the spirit of the Lord God is fathomed and you to be out of the spirit the Apostles were in and to be spirits that are gone out into the world and into the earth and fall and so you usurp the authority and usurp the Ministry in usurping the authority as your selves may see read the Scripture of the Prophets and Apostles and there read the fruit of your Ministry and Actions try them by plain Scripture Pr. Ye say that the Ministry hath no power to put you out of the Vineyard but to perswade others to do it Ans Are the Ministry in the Vineyard of God and have they no power have they no authority there in the Vineyard Are the Magistrates then to put them into the Vineyard and to take them out And all them that are labourers in the Vineyard must perswade to put into the Vineyard do not you in this shew your ignorance of the Apostles Doctrine and of their work who rebuked stopt the mouthes of gain-sayers had power to silence had power to try spirits had power to judge had power to defend Now have you not in this if you be Ministers dishonoured your power and authority and have shewed that you be out of the power and to be them that cryes to the mountains fall on us and hide us from the glorious presence of the Lord which is arising to shake terribly the earth Pr. So if the Ministers maintenance be taken away there is little likelihood of a Ministry long Answ It seems the maintenance hath been that which hath caused them to Preach and held them up so take away their maintenance down falls their Ministry But I say the power will stand and the Administration of the spirit and the hearing of Christ and the teaching of God if men take away all their maintenance and cast them into prison for speaking But this holding up of Ministers by maintenance is that which came up before the Apostles decease which taught for filthy lucres sake and through covetousness made merchandize of the people through the love of money they erred from the faith and pierced themselves through with many hurtful lusts and admired mens persons because of advantage and taught for gifts and rewards these were come up before the Apostles decease now these Teachers admired mens persons taught for filthy lucre the love of money and covetousness which the Apostle saw before his decease which since the world run after them take away their money and their lucre and their gifts see how long these will Preach Now have you shewed your Root your off-spring is found out Now the Apostle Preached and the Ministers stood up which judged the Root from whence ye are sprunge for your Root was come up before the Apostles decease And now try ye if maintenance be taken away there is no likelihood the Ministry will stand long And we say so too we know it take away your maintenance down falls the Preacher Therefore with Petitions are you troubling the Courts and Magistrates for your livelihood which if ye were true Ministers ye would be in the work in the Vineyard of God and would be ashamed of such things and with the power of God cover your nakedness and not be Beggars and Petition for outward things ye dishonour the power of the Lord God and cause his name to be blasphemed among the heathen And so for shame let your mouthes be stopt for ever for saying you are
Apostles and Christs words and minister of unrighteousnesse transforming your selves into the true ministers words whose soules is under the horrible delusions and misterious deceits under the observances o● the world who would beguile the soule that is not stablished but light is broke forth that few you can deceive and thy New-years gift is judged and proceeds from Cain and is his sacrifice from the earth for t●e Apostles saw such as was transforming into the false Apostles and false ministers he brings the saints to the light that shined in their hearts to give them the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ Jesus which you deny to the false transformed into their words and judged with their spirit which brought people to the light within and you bring them from it so from that which should give them the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Chri●● Jesus Pr. The Devil is called the Prince of darknesse because he lives in the darknesse as to the apprehention of divine love an enemy to all the Image of God which is light and purity and the devil transformed himselfe into the likenesse of God under a faire pretence heavenly words selfe-denyall actions righteous conversations Answ This is like your fruits who hath deceived the people but is your divine love to the devill who is out of truth doth not Christ come to destroy him and his works and there is none that can apprehend the divine love of God but who be in the truth And the Devill cannot transforme himself to be like God not in his image nor in his righteousnesse that is out of truth and his conversation that is out of truth is altogether unrighteous and is but in the pretence of selfe-●enyal● but is not the thing though he and you may get the words that be heavenly and stands against the light and Image of God and purity it selfe for all you be of the devil that doth deny the light that doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world for you come not into the truth which the devill is out of nor into the pure conversation which is in heaven and purity Pr. Thou saist Thou hast many occasions offered by the Quakers upon thy poor weake and sinfull heart the Lord hath filled my heart with moderation in giving my own once uncomfortable experiences Ans We believe thee that thy heart is weak and sinfull and a weak and sinfull heart is not filled with moderation and thy experiences which are uncomfortable are not the experiences of the Saints for the Saints experiences are comfortable and their heart is a pure heart that is filled with moderation and the Quakers will torment all sinfull and corrupt hearts for such the Lord is against and so be his Saints not to take his words into their mouthes Pr. Thou saist Thou hatest hypocrisie when thou livest in the light life and power of the first Adam and because the Quakers say they know my conscience better then my self I see they are acted through delusion I am able to to speak this truth from my own heart which is better known to me I do know that a naturall man may make a large progresse in the Gospel profession and conversation and that which the Quakers call back-sliding is my turning to my God Ans In the light and life and power of the first Adam as he was in the beginning thou art not in which he was in before the fall and the Apostles knew the state and condition of Jewes and Gentiles and people better then they did themselves and so doth the Quake●s that be in their spirit and this is not delusion and thy owne heart yet thou dost not know as thou oughts nor the truth but first thou must come to the light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world which is the truth and a naturall man doth not make a progresse into the Gospell nor doth not come into the conversation of it whilst he lives in the naturall estate and thy God thou art turned too which is the God of the world as all hirelings and diviners for money and teachers for filthy lucre did that went forth from the spirit of the Apostles and prophets and Christ and back-slided from them and so went from the true God and thou serves the God of the world for love of thy benefice and see if thou will not look upward and downeward and curse thy God Pr. I would have all the world to observe how that the Quakers that Anti-Christ hath cast that blindnesse upon their understandings for their reproving men sharply and rebukeing them crying woe to the hypocrites it s the devils policy to keep close to the scriptures I used arguments to people to look for the glorious way and discovery of the divine light and power to be brought forth among all the children of the most high O mystery Babylon of this delusion Ans Hears thy confession for the spirit of God where it is doth rebuke reprove sharplie and tell them that are hypocrites the woe is to them and the Quakers ante-christ cannot blind them they are come from under his power and authority but you are them that cannot feare reproof and the Lord may send a man as he did Philip to such a place and he not know what he shall do nor whom he shall speak to till he come to such a place and the devil is out of the life that gave forth scriptures though he and you may pervert the words who may get them but not own them as they speak and thou calls good evill and evill good for the children of the most high doth waite for the most glorious discovery of divine light and power which delusion and mystery Babylon is out of and so the Quakers is come to that which ante-christ is ravened from with that they comprehend him Pr. And thou saist These people that thou callest the Quakers will send most rayling accusations against the pillars of the Chu●ch of Christ Ans That is false but antichrists Church and his pillars which are waters which you call tongues which is your originall that Iohn calls waters the Quakers do judge according to truth and declare it in full power and majesty and can make it good which you call rayling which they deny for a company of greedy drumb dogs can never have enough that will prison and pesecute men till death for speaking to them and for meanes such as are apostatized from the true church and is a false Church who hath transformed themselves into the true Churchs words but now the true Church hath discovered you to be the false apostatized from the true and reigned since the daies of the Apostles Pr. I see no conviction the Quakers hath wrote by their speaking or any subjection of fear or love or any such thing wrought by them and to tell such that be praying reading or in meditation to say it is the power
as your heavenly Father is perfect Mat. 5.4 he knew that they might be perfect if they come into the Kingdom of God for there no unperfect thing must enter Rev. 21. and so he did speak that which he knew people should come into but they should come into it if ever they came into the Kingdom of God what is this to thee which cannot love enemies for they that love enemies shall know perfection and perfect love and patience have its perfect work Jam. 1.4 the Apostles speak wisdom to them that were perfect but not the worlds wisdom which comes to nothing 1 Cor. 2.6 and the work of the Ministry was for the perfecting of the Saints till they all come into the unity of the faith unto the knowledge of the Son of God unto a perfect man and unto the measure and stature and fulness of Christ Eph. 4. and they should not be any more tossed to and fro with the windy doctrines of men nor cunning craftiness wherewith they lie in waite to deceive and there art thou tossed up and down with every wind and far off the work of the Ministry when thou saist blasphemously Christ scorned men when he bad them be perfect Christ did not scorne them but thy doctrine it is imperfect and thou and you that transgress and abide not in the doctrine of Christ thou and you are Ante-christs as ye may read 2 Io. 9.10 Pr. When it was asked him of the words that Peter spake of concerning them that brought in damnable Heresies and denyed the Lord that bought them he said they did but think the Lord had bought them but they were not bought but they thought they had been so Ans Here thou again with thy damnable Doctrine dost goe about to make Peter and Iude lyers who speakes contrary to scripture and perverts their Doctrine and the words of Peter are thus even denying the Lord that bought them 2 Pet. 2.1 and the words of Iude 4. denying the onely Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ and thou saist the Lord had not bought them but they thought he had bought them wo and misery man will be thy portion that thou should so wickedly pervert the Apostles Doctrine and the scripture Acts. 13.10 and bring in such damnable Doctrine and devilsh doctrine and speaks such lyes in hypocrisy whose conscience is seared with a hot Iron 1 Tim. 4. it is time for people to turne away from you who have so long deceived them Pr. Concerning these words of Ezek. 18.28 If the righteous man turne away from his righteousnesse his former righteousness shall be no more remembred and he said the meaning of that scripture was they thought they had been righteous but they were not but supposed it had been so Ans Here in this thou art a minister of unrighteousnesse thou goest about to make God a lyer and the Prophets and perverts the scriptures for if he forsakes his righteousnesse and commits sin and iniquity and trespasses he shall dye and not live in the righteousnesse but if he forsake his sin trespasses and transgressions in the righteousnesse that he hath done and doth he shall live so Gods waies are equall Eze. 18. And thou saies they thought they had been righteous but it was not so And the Lord by the Prophet saith it was so that they should live in their righteousness dye if they depart from it and transgressed here thou art a diminisher from the prophets and Apostles words whose name is diminished out of the book of life read Rev. 22.19 Pr. He denyed that Christ dyed for all men but for the Elect. Ans Contrary to Iohns Doctrine who saith he is the propitiation for our sins and not for our sins onely but for the sins of the whole world 1 Iohn 2.2 and so it is the unbeliever that is shut out and not believing in the light that men are enlightned withall with which light they might see the one offering who tasted death for every man Heb. 2.9 and doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world that all through him might believe and they that believe not in the light are condemned Ioh. 3.18 but beleving in the light shall come out of condemnation and he is the Saviour of all men but especially of them that believe 1 Tim. 4.10 and the grace of God which brings salvation hath appeared to all men which was the saints Teacher Titus 2.11 12. and they that turn it into wantonnesse shall with it be condemned Iude 4. they that set up a heap of teachers 2 Tim. 4.3 after their own lusts went out from the Apostles doctrine before the Apostles decease 1 Io 2.19 and have turned the grace of God that brings salvation into wantonnesse ever since and saith it hath not appeared unto all men which brings salvation which is saving grace and Christ Jesus doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world that they might believe and walke after him and saith they that follow him shall not abide in darknesse but shall become the children of light and have the light of life Io. 8.12 Now say they that hate the light it is not sufficient it is not a saving light but they shall find it sufficient to condemn them and their unbeliefe for not believing in it for believing in it they come to have the light of life Iohn 8.12 and Iohn 12.36 Pr. He being asked who were hirelings if they were not that did take hire his answer was they were hirelings that did not take hire and to prove it he brought that scripture in Philippians of them that preached Christ of envy and strife Ans Now all may see what doctrine he brings to pervert or wrest the scriptures Philip. 1.15 to prove them hirelings that doe not take hire that in the Phillyipians doth not prove that they were hirelings neither did they take hire so that for his purpose makes nothing though for this purpose he brings that scripture but that his folly and darkness might appeare and be made manifest by the light for now to it his deeds are come who is unfit to talke of the scripture Pr. He said it was the cleare marke of the Devill to goe up and downe from place to place to preach as the Quakers doe Ans Now here in this he may charge all the prophets Christ and his Apostles which went up and downe from place to place Heb. 11. that this is the marke of the Devill but this is too manifest to bring to light and discover the Presbyterian priests of Scotland who lies in Dens and Corners and fat benefits and there stick in the earth are crept into houses who say it is the devills marke to goe up and downe to preach but this is that they may manifest themselves to be judged by the practice of Christ his Apostles that their folly might appeare unto all men Luke 9.5.8 Heb. 11. likewise the Presbyterian Priests are turned like Ranters who
people and suffer it not to have liberty do you not do murther to the just of God in you in your own particulars and so then stop it in the general for opening its mouth with all your force and might and are you not murtherers there and do you not steal by Sea and Land and cozen and cheat and wrong one another nay do you not steal the words from your neighbour and the Prophets and the Apostles and Christ which you never came into the life of is not this called theft and robbery for you have not received it from the Lord God as Prophets as Apostles as his Son did and servants did so all your profession Church and Ministery stand in the robbery and have not received it as they did as the true Apostles and Prophets did and Ministers did ye all stand in the robbery and do not you covet your neighbours goods Oxen Cattel and servants and wife and one getting from another goods and getting servants one from another is not this out of the love in which the Commandment ends where there is serving one another in love and is not all covetous Idolaters out of the love shut in which the Commandment ends and hath not this been the practice in the whole Christendom coveting mens goods servants cattel and that which is not his is not that out of the Law and Gospel and out of a pure heart where the Commandment is done and known and that which it ends in is in Christ and love keepes the Commands of Christ they that love do not covet and they are not Idolaters Pr. We are not to make any images to be tollerated in the Churches and Chappels or figures of things made for it is not seemly for God will have his Church be taught by living Preaching Answ How is it that your Churches so called are so full of Pictures and images of Males and Females representing a figure of Adam and Eve the Apostles and Christ and your houses and signs of fish in the Sea and Lyons and others creatures upon the earth and of things as you imagine in heaven are not all these your inventions your works and inventions you have learned of the Papists and they from the heathen not from the Apostles and you have daubed your Churches and them flourished with your Pictures these things you call your Churches but the Church is in God which the gates of Hell cannot prevail against but a showre of rain or an earthquake or a great wind will prevail against your Church and the devil may come with his carnal weapons and throw it down but the Church of Christ the Pillar of truth is that the devil is out of Pr. You say a man may swear before a Magistrate and that this kind of swearing is ordained by Gods word therefore well used of the Saints and it is not lawful to swear by the Saints or other creatures Answ Here ye be out of the Doctrine of Christ who saith swear not at all and out of the Magistrates state the Apostle speaks of and out of Christs Doctrine and the Apostles and hath broken the commands of Christ and the Apostles Doctrine which saith swear not at all so you wrong Christ Jesus and the word of God you deny and though Abraham swear and Jacob and Joseph sware the Prophets and Moses swear David swore and the Angels swore and men in strife swear by the greater and the oath ended the strife and controversie amongst men yet Christ saith before Abraham was I am he reigns over the house of Joseph and Jacob he is the end of the Prophets he is the end of Moses he is the end of men of strife and brings peace on the earth the Angels must bow down to him that saith swear not at all who was before Abraham was and David called him Lord who was greater then Solomon and this is my beloved Son hear ye him now which of you hear him they said in the old time perform thy vows to the Lord this was the old time the day of Abraham David Prophets Moses Solomon but Christ who was before all time by whom all things was made the oath of God ends the time and saith swear not at all so doth his true Ministers and the Apostles above all things my brethren swear not at all neither by heaven nor by earth lest you fall into condemnation now here were true brethren that kept the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles and his commands which swearers break which are got up since the dayes of the Apostles which are the false brethren Apostatized from the true so now the fruits of false and true brethren are seen who keep the commands of Christ and walk in the Doctrine of the Apostles and who doth not Pr. You say That in the fourth Commandment God doth command that the Ministers of the Gospel and the Schools of Learning should be maintained and that on the Sabbath frequent studiously Divine Assembles hear the word diligently using the Sacraments Ans Your Schools your Sacraments your Sabbath your Studies by men you have made these since the Apostles your Ministers at your Schools and not by the Lord but among your selves Apostatized from his spirit for the Apostles had not Shools and the Apostles said let no man judge you in meats or drinks new Moons and Sabbath dayes c. for the body is Christ and he brought them off of these services to Christ the substance the body who ended the Sabbath days and the offerings upon them who was before dayes who is the rest for his people and did not bring people into dayes but into Christ by whom all things was made who was Lord of the Sabbath and such meet on the first day of the week and are taught of God and out-strip all your Teachers made in Schools and learnings of men and so not of man nor by man but the outward Schools are of men and by men Pr. You say The fifth Commandment injoyns you to yield obedience to the faithful commandments of them that be over you and the Catechisme Ans The fifth Commandment brings that men should obey the command of God not of men nor the Catechisme nor such stuff as is in this Catechisme but who are come to Christ the end of the Commandments the end of the Law him by whom the world was made and was before it was made is enjoyed Pr. You say The meaning of the seventh Commandment Is that you should live temperate modest and chaste and holy in Wedlock Answ Is this so have you not broken Wedlok both with God and man and lost the chaste Virgin state and so gotten up into intemperate immodest unchastness into uncleanness and filthiness and so shew by your fruits that you neither come to keep this Commandment nor to Christ the end of it Pr. You say The eighth Commandment doth not only forbid robbery but covetousness after other mens goods evil witchcraft devices to