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A61155 Some drops of the viall, powred out in a season when it is neither night nor day, or, Some discoveries of Iesus Christ His glory in severall books ... : all which books are here reprinted in one booke entirely after the severall impressions of them and presented to the reader / by John Saltmarsh ... Saltmarsh, John, d. 1647. 1646 (1646) Wing S503; ESTC R2317 176,771 226

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take heed we forget not him who is greater then the Temple for one greater then the Temple is here It would be spiritually considered that while we strive for the Vessels and Cups we spill not the Wine And it ought to be so carried by all of us that because we are so much in opinion we may not be thought to place Religion there as I feare too many do making a Christ of the very Ordinance of Christ and pressing some outward Ordinances of the Gospell so legally as some hearing such a power of Salvation put into them and finding an outward dispensation more easily got then the spirituall make haste thither only and then sit down as saved under a meere outward Ordinance The Lord grant that we may neither undervalue an Ordinance nor the least Institution of Iesus Christ nor raise it up into a Iesus Christ and set up the Law above or beside the Law-giver We must now learne to know Iesus Christ lesse after the flesh and not to embody salvation in a meer outward dispensation and so incarnate Iesus Christ over again from the glory and spirituality he is in Brethren farewell For my part I am fully assured from Scriptures of the Church of Christ here or Gospell-fellowship of the Saints and unto this fellowship with the Father and the Son I endeavour and I have one way to reveale Truth to me which I cannot conceale nor yet cannot practice as I would and that is this To see Truth by living in the power of Truth and by first obtaning Jesus Christ to live in us in the power of his suffering death and Resurrection for surely Jesus Christ must do all though more gloriously and spiritually over again in his which he did in himselfe If Jesus Christ the Light be in us the light by which every outward dispensation is seen will flow in for where the Sun is there will be every beame with it THE CONTENTS A way of Peace or a Designe for Reconciliation 1 GOds Love the first and last glorious V●ion to be considered to draw us to Vnity Page 1 2 Names of Sect and Division to be laid down p. 2 3 Passions and Railings forborn Ibid. 4 Reviling each other for infirmities forborn Ib. 5 The sins of any not to be laid on the Cause Ib. 6 Liberty for Printing and Speaking Ibid. 7 Let all subscribe their names to what they Print Ibid. 8 Let all be severally accountable pag. 3 9 Free Debates and open conferences Ibid. 10 Let us call Beleevers though of severall Opinions if the name of Brethren cannot be justly allowed Ib. 11 No Beleevers to esteem too highly of themselves for what they attain to Ibid. 12 No assuming infallibility over each other p. 4 13 No civill power drawn into advantages Ib. 14 Tendernesse in offending each other in things of an outward nature Ibid. 15 Severall Opinions from the Gospels first discovery yet all beleevers p. 5 16 No despising for too much Learning or too little Ibid. 17 We be one in Christ though divers Ibid. 18 The Spirituall Persecution to be forborn Ib. The Unwarrantable Way of Peace or the Antichristian Design for Reconciliation TO beleeve as the Church or Councils p. 6 ●o set up o●e as the Pope for Infallibility Ib. To allow that all may be saved in their severall wayes p. 7 To forbid Interpretings and Disputes Ibid. By a compu●sive power Ibid. The Opinions of these times ● Resbytery so called what it is and what they hold p. 8 ●ceptions against Presbytery p. 9. ● dependency so called what it is and what they hold Ibid. ●ceptions against Independency p. 10 ●abap●isme so called what it is and what they hold p. 12 Exceptions against the grounds of the new Baptism Ibid. Seeking or Seekers so called what their Way is and what they hold p. 16 Exceptions against them Ibid. Conclusion p. 19 The Gospell or New Testament proved undeniably to be the very Word of God p. 20 One Argument from the Nationall Covenant Art 1 and 2. for Liberty of Conscience p. 23 Objections against it answered p. 25 26 Spirituall Principles drawn forth of the Controversie GOspell-truth one and the same p. 60 Prudence and Consequences are the great Engines of Will-worship Ibid. The People are Brethren and Saints in Christs Church but in Antichrists Parishioners and servants p. 61 Presbytery it self is founded on Principles of Separation which yet they condemn for Schism in other Churches●ay is the greatest Separation p. 62 None to be forced under Christs Kingdom as in the Kingdomes of the world Ibid. The power of a formall Reformation in a Government makes it not Christs Government p. 63 The visible Church or Communion is the Image of the invisible or mysticall p. 64 How Christ is a King of the Nations and of the Church and how an Head Ibid. The Presbyteriall Government and the Worlds of the same equall Dominion p. 65 The Nationall and Congregationall Church-covenant both lawfull or both unlawfull Ibid. We receive and give out Truth by parts p. 66 All Cove●an●ers are bound to contribute to Religion as well as State p. 67 We are to try Truth and so receive it in its degrees p. 67 No Church-way Independency p. 68 A spirit of Love and Meeknes becomes Beleevers Ib. When a State-conscience is fully p●rswaded doubtfull and so sinning Ibid. A Post-script with Salmasius his Testimony against the present Presbyteriall way p. 69 A WAY OF PEACE OR A Designe of Reconciliation How the Beleevers of severall Opinions scandalously called Presbyterians Independents Anabaptists Seekers may be reconciled to forbeare one another 1 Gods love the first and last glorious Vnion to be considered to draw us to Vnity ONe way is to consider love as it is in God and flowing from him upon the creature God is love and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God and God in him Now the more love there is in any the more of God there is in any Satan the first fountaine of sin made the first Schisme in the glorious Communion All was one and in one glory till the first division and till Satan fell like lightening and he envying the whole Creation which was in love with it self and him that made it drew it into sin and antipathies and mutuall persecutions and when it began to leave loving him that was pure and infinite love it began to hate it self and divide from it self So as the lesse love the more of Satan and sin The consideration of Gods love to himself which is infinite of his love to his which is no lesse infinite because to sinners and of his Sons love spiritually uniting himself here and gloriously hereafter into one Body and Communion cannot but make us love one another 2 Names of Sects and Division to be laid down Let all names and notes of distinction taken up by way of scandall and reproach be laid down and forborn names and notions are like Standards
remain unsatisfied they are not to be put upon his Dilemma of sin or misery or to be ruled with the rod but meeknesse 2 Cor. 4. 21. 2 Tim. 2. 25. Because the ignorance of the people generally which he would have for a reason to suspend it ought to be rather a reason for expedition that they may practically know it for while it is unknown it is slandered which might have been more amiable Because his two Texts make not only against the suspending for a time but for ever I wish he would preach such Texts as these to his people ● Thes 5. 12 13. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13. 7 17. Reply To your first It belongs not to the people c. It seems then the people must be kept out from all intermedling But I would have the people mark well what kind of Government that is that sits upon the waters or people I am sure Christ's Government takes in the people and being once in a Church-way they lose their old capacity for a new and are raised up from People to Brethren Act. 15. It is a worthy saying of Master Goodwyn and Master Nye That the Clergie got the golden ball of Government amongst them and I censure it is not much mended in the Presbytery But you say The people must be instructed that is they must only know that they must obey But they are called and consulted with and owned as the Scripture holds forth where ever there is any Church spoken of But what though instructed They are only to be instructed and taught that this is the Government to which they must submit So the people under Popery Prelacy c. were instructed with that limitation and restriction But shall they be thus instructed and taught in it People here is a Government which to some of us seemeth to be a Government according to the Word take it and examine it if you be so perswaded and that the Word holds it forth clearly embrace it if not do not obey anything in blind and implicite obedience This were faire dealing with Conscience thus the Churches of Christ had their Government among them To that of the peoples compliancy you speak on it is not my work here to dispute the Interests of Elders and People distinctly but to make answer that the complyancy and submission which are the duties you set out for the people are such as they may easily see the Interest you allow them viz. an Interest of compliance only and submission or obedience to what is done already not any liberty to examine and refuse And when people are instructed still your work remaines to prove your Presbytery over Congregations or a Church gathered out of a Church to be over a Church which may upon the Presbytery more justly be recriminated then where you do so often recriminate upon gathered Churches And me thinks to me it is unreasonable to taxe any for church-gathering when your very Presbytery is maintained by such a kind of principle What is your Classicall your Provinciall your Nationall Presbytery but a Church gathered out of the rest call it a virtuall or representative or what you please For that of Meeknesse how meek it will prove and how meekly they shall be dealt with under it we are not to judge by any promises of Meeknesse but by Principles Are the Principles such as naturally bring forth Meeknesse or rather such as invest the Ministers and Elders with a power supreame and of dominion But what if such as your self and some other godly meek of your Way may propound nothing but waies of meeknesse to your selves Can you undertake to secure the people for hereafter and for all of the Way and for the Way in its own nature There are things of meek appearances as the Presbytery may be yet prove not so The Lamb in the Revelation had two horns though a Lamb. Hazael could say Am I a dog that thou shouldest think so harshly of me that I should kill the children in the womb 2 King 8 He as little suspected his own cruelty which the Prophet foresaw in his nature would come to passe as you do in your Presbytery which some seeing into the nature of it cannot but prophesie accordingly You know Episcopacy began in meeknesse and Bishops were brought in first for good and for Peace But how proved they Tyranny had ever a countenance of Meeknesse and Love till it got seated in the Throne So Absolon was very faire spoken in the Gate but how was he in the Throne For that of my Dilemma of sin and misery which you say people shall not be put upon it may be some in your or another Classis may find more meeknesse a spirit of more love and ingenuity But what is this to the nature of the Government that some in it are well natured And for that of sin and misery surely if the Presbytery be set on with power many a one will be in that snare partly in feare and partly in an easie complyancy For there are whole Parishes and Counties of this constitution And you your self say The wilfully weak must have the rod. And who will this be Such as are so in the judgement and interpretation of the Classis or how I would this were well cleared And for your Scriptures of 1 Cor. 4. 21. 2 Tim. 2. 25. Shall I come to you with a rod c. and in meeknesse instructing c. These are full Scriptures for ordering any Church government These are good Laws but then men must be rightly in Commission for ruling by them and people rightly ordered and disposed for such rules as in all other Laws and Kingdoms But what is this to your purpose till your Government appeare to be all Christs To that of the ignorance of the people which you would have for a reason of expedition rather then susponsion that they may practically know it I answer In practicall godlinesse the Scripture-way is not so Things must first be known before practically known or else the obedience can be but mixt blind and Popish Who can practically obey taking practically in a Scripture-sense that is with knowledge till they know and be perswaded Indeed in things civill c or morall practice may bring in knowledge habits may be acqui●ed and gotten by Acts a man may grow temperate by practising temperance and civilly obedient practising civill obedience But it is not so in Spirituals there habits go before acts spirituall infusions before practices And for the amiablenesse of it look into other Reformed Kingdoms and see what power of godlinesse is there by reason of it Do we not see the huge bodies of Nations very sinfull corrupt formall For Scotland our Brethrens preaching and watchfulnesse it may be more powerfull in a Reformation upon them then their Government And further I deny not but a Government of that nature may much reforme the outward man So may a meer prudentiall Government a meer civill Government if
had All the Works wrought in us then were freely of God and of free-gift too as Arminius well observes in the point of universall Grace and we wrought only from a gift given Either place Salvation upon a free bottom or else you make the New Covenant but an Old Covenant in new tearmes in stead of Do this and live Beleeve this and live repent and live obey and live And all this is for want of revealing the mystery more fully To your third That where we find Faith only preached and so Salvation made short work that it is because we have but the Summaries I agree with you that we have but the Doctrine of the Apostles as Johns of whom it is said He spake many other things in his exhortation to the people It is true we have much of what they said and we want much yet we have so much as may shew us that according to the work of Salvation in us Faith is the worke which gives most glory to God Abraham believed it is said and gave glory to God they that beleeve give glory and Faith of all the works of the Spirit is the glorious Gospell-worke Christ cals it the worke indeed this is the worke that ye beleeve So as the only reason why we heare so much of Faith in the Gospell is not only and meerely as you insinuate because we have but their Sermons in Summaries and because of another reason of yours drawn from the qualification of some they Preached to that had other gifts and not Faith But because Faith is of all Spirituall encreasings in us the most gloriously working towards Christ Faith goes out and Faith depends and Faith lives in Christ and Faith brings down Christ and Faith opens the riches and Faith beleeves home all strength comfort glory peace promises And Faith hath so much put upon it as becomes a stumbling stone and a rock of offence to many Justification imputation of righteousnesse is put upon Faith Salvation upon Faith as Christs Bloud is put upon the Wine the Cup that we blesse is it not the Communion of the bloud of Christ and Christs body upon the bread the bread that we breake is it not the Communion of the body of Christ and yet neither the Wine nor the Bread is his Bloud or his Body no more then Faith is either Justification or Righteousnesse but such a work as goes out most into him and carries the soule into him who is Righteousnesse and Justification to us The Word were no mystery if it were not thus ordered and things so mingled that the Spirit only could discerne and distinguish Do not the Papists stumble at Works And why because they see not Faith for Works And do not others stumble at Faith And why because they see not Christ for Faith Do not some say that the words world and all and every man makes some stumble at the Election of some and so conclude Redemption for all Master Gataker 1 That Christ and his Apostles never Preached Free-grace without conditions and qualifications on our parts Rom 8. 1. Mat. 5. 8. c. 2 Christs Bloud or Wine is not to be filled out too freely to Dogs and Swine to sturdy Rogues 3 That saying promises belongs to sinners as sinners not as humbled c. and all that received him received him in a sinfull condition is a creeping to Antinomiamsme 4 That God may be provoked to wrath by his Children and David and Peter made their peace with God by repentance 5 That God loves us for his own graces in us God is as man and as a Father is angry and chastiseth his for sin 6 Faith is not a perswasion more or lesse of Christs love all may have that men may beleeve too suddenly as Simon Magus 7 Christ bids us repent as well as beleeve yea first to repent we are to try our Faith 2 Cor. 13. 5. 1 John 4. 1. 8 That he clog● men with conditions of taking and receiving as well as we of repenting and obeying 9 The summe of this mans Divinity is Men may be saved whether they repent or no whether they beleeve or no. Answer To the first That Christ and his Apostles never Preached Free-grace without conditions c. on our parts I answer They Preached Faith and Repentance and Obedience But how First in degrees of Revelation the Gospell came not all out at once in its glory They Preached them but how not in parts as we have their Doctrine as you confesse they Preached them but all along in the New Testament there is more of their glory and fulnesse revealed concerning them so as the degrees of revealing the parts or summaries of their Sermons the fuller discovery in the whole New Testament are those things you consider not and they are the things we only consider and so dare not Preach the Gospell so in halfes in parts and quarters as you do and yet will not beleeve you do which is so much worse Ye say ye see and therefore your sin remaineth To the second Christ Bloud is not to be filled out to Rogues and Dogs Take heed you charge not Christ for being with Publicans and Sinners you may upon this ground say he Preached false Doctrine because he said He came not to call the Righteous but Sinners What were all of us in our unregenerate condition sinners or righteous persons unholy or holy men of Faith or unbeliefe or not rather dead intrespasses and sins till quickned with Christ To the third That saying Promises belongs to sinners as sinners and not humbled c. I pray to whom doth all Promises belong first but to Christ and from whom to us but from Christ and what are the Elect and the chosen in him before they are called or beleeve but sinners as sinners Do you look that men should be first whole for the Physitian or Righteous for Pardon of sins or justified for Christ or rather sinners unrighteous ungodly While we were yet sinners Christ dyed for us He dyed for the ungodly Christ is the Physitian the Righteousnesse the Sanctification and makes them beleved that were not beloved and to obtaine mercy that had not obtained mercy and Saints who were Sinners and Spirituall who were Carnall So as we looke at Christ and the Promises comming to men in their sins but those men were beloved of God in Christ who suffered for sins before so as they begin not now to be loved but to be made to love God begins not to be reconciled to them but they begin to be reconciled to him The love of God being shed abroad into their hearts by the Holy Ghost which is now given unto them So as we looking at persons as chosen in Christ and at their sins as borne by Christ on his body on the Tree we see nothing in persons to hinder them from the Gospell and offers of Grace there be they never so sinfull to us or themselves they
are not so to him who hath chosen them nor to him in whom they are chosen And this is the mystery why Christ is offered to Sinners or Rogues or whatsoever you call them they are as touching the Election beloved for the Fathers sake I speak of such to whom Christ gives power to receive him and beleeve on him and become the Sons of God and Christ findes them out in their sins and visits them who sit in the region and shadow of death and them that are darknesse he makes light in the Lord. To your fourth That God may be provoked to wrath by his Children I pray Can God be as the Son of man Is there any variablenesse or shadow of change in him Can he love and not love Doth he hate persons or sins Is he said to chastise as Fathers otherwise then in expressions after the manner of men because of the infirmities of our flesh must we conceive so of God as of one another Can he be provoked for sins done away and abolished Hath Christ taken away all the sin of his Hath he borne all upon his body or no Speakes he of anger otherwise then by way of Allusion and Allegory as a Father c. And is that He is a Father after the fashion of men Or speaks he not in the Old Testament according to the Revelation of himselfe then and in the New Testament of himselfe now only because our infirmity and his own manner of appearing which is not yet so but we may beare him in such expressions and yet not so in such expressions but we may see more of him and his love and the glory of Salvation in other expressions and not make up such a love as you commonly do of benevolence and complacence Did David and Peter as you say make up their peace with God by Repentance Is there any that makes peace but one Jesus Christ who makes peace through the bloud of his Crosse Can Repentance make peace Or Obedience make peace Is there any sacrifice for sin but that which was once offered even he that appeared in the end of the world to put away sin by the sacrifice of himselfe And was not this called by the Apostle One sacrifice for sins for ever Repentance Obedience c. may make way for the peace made already for sin that is in such workings of the Spirit the love of God in the face of Iesus Christ may shine upon the Soule more freely and fully and the more the Spirit abounds in the fruits of it the more joy and peace flows into the Soule and the more the Soule looks Christ in the face so as peace with God is not made but more revealed by the Spirit in obedience and love c. To your fifth That God loves us for his own graces in us I thought he had loved us too in himselfe and from that love given Christ for us and yet loved us in Christ ●op Can any thing without God be a cause of Gods love Doth God love as we love one another from complexions or features without or loves he not rather thus God is love and therefore we are made and Redeemed and Sanctified not because we are Sanctified therefore he loves us We love him because he first loved us he loved us because he loved us and not because we love him not because of any Spirituall complexion or feature in us because of his Image upon us that is but an earnest of his love to us that is only given us because he loved us he loves us from his will not from without for though we are like him yet we are not himselfe and he loves us as in Christ and himselfe Whereas you say God is as man and as a Father I hope you meane not as in himselfe but as in his wayes of speaking and appearing to us and if so we are agreed But your taking things more in the Letter then the Spirit makes your Divinity lesse Divine and your conceptions more like things of men then of God This makes the Gospell so legall and carnall when we rise little higher then the bare Letter or Scripture not the inspiration by which it came all Scripture being given by inspiration To your sixth That Faith is not a pers●●sion more or lesse of Gods love and that all may have that I pray mistake not Can all beleeve from the Spirit Can all be more or lesse spiritually perswaded Do I speake of any perswasion of Christs love which is not Spirituall Deceive not your selfe nor your Reader nor wrong not your Author or do I speak of Faith abstracted from all Repentance Obedience c why deale ye thus When you say men may beleeve too suddenly because I presse men to beleeve and you instance in Simon Magus Was he blamed for beleeving too suddenly or for mis-beleeving because he beleeved the gifts of the Holy Ghost were to be bought with money Can any beleeve too soon if some mis-beleeve or beleeve falsly what is that to them that truly beleeve Shall the unbeliefe of some make the Faith of God without effect God forbid Can Christ be too soon a Saviour to us Can the Fountaine be too soon opened for sin Can the riches of Christ be too soon brought home Paul counts it an honour to be first in Christ Salute Andronicus and Iunia who were in Christ before me and the Church in Pr●scilla's house and Epenetus who were the first fruits of Achai● unto Christ To your seventh That Christ bids us repent as well as beleeve yea first repent Yea but will you take the Doctrine of the Gospell from a part or summary of it as you say and not from the Gospell in its fulnesse and glory and Revelation Will ye gather Doctrines of Truth as Ruth for a while did gleanings here one eare of Corne and there another and not rather go to the full sheafe to Truth in the Harvest and Vintage Will you pluck up Truth by pieces and parcels in Repentance and Obedience and Selfe-dentall and not reveale these as Christ may be most glorified and the Saints most Sanctified and these gifts most Spiritualized and improved Will ye Preach Doctrines as they lie in the Letter or in their Analogie and inference of Truth The Papists Preach Christs very flesh and bloud to be in the Wine And why but because they looke but halfe way to the demonstration of Truth in the Spirit they shut up Christ in one Notion and not in another and so loses the Truth by revealing it in that Forme of words which is too narrow for it and too short of the height and depth and length of it You say We are to try our Faith So say I too if you would not pick and choose in my Book to make me some other thing then you find me But you mean we must try our Faith for assurance as your other words imply and so far I say too but you