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A14461 The Christian disputations, by Master Peter Viret. Deuided into three partes, dialogue wise: set out with such grace, that it cannot be, but that a man shall take greate pleasure in the reading thereoff. Translated out of French into English, by Iohn Brooke of Ashe; Disputations chrestiennes. English Viret, Pierre, 1511-1571.; Calvin, Jean, 1509-1564.; Brooke, John, d. 1582. 1579 (1579) STC 24776; ESTC S119193 490,810 627

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PETRVS VIRETVS THE Christian disputations BY MASTER PETER VIRET Deuided into three partes Dialogue wise Set out with such grace that it cannot be but that a man shall take greate pleasure in the reading thereoff Translated out of French into English by Iohn Brooke of Ashe Math. vij d. 21. Not euery one that saith vnto me Lorde Lorde shall enter into the kingdome of Heauen but he that doth my fathers will which is in heauen MIEVLX VAVLT MOVRIR Ē VERTV QVE VIVRE EN HONCTE ¶ Imprinted at London by Thomas East 1579. To the most Reuerent Father in God EDMVND by the permission of God Archbishop of Caunterbury Primate and Metrapolitan of England Iohn Brooke wisheth in this life prosperitie and eternall felicitie in Christ our Sauiour REading for mine owne priuate exercise and studies the worthie worke of Master Peter Viret entituled The Christian disputations right Reuerent Father the sweete entrie into the same with such pleasant allurementes of comfortable matter so drewe and tolled me forwade as vnnethes I coulde cease vntill I had cleane discoursed and gone thorowe the whole worke Which hauing once accomplished and due consideration therevppon had according to my slender capacitie I thought I coulde not bestowe my time in any thing more worthy gratefull acceptaunce then in publyshing and setting foorth the same that others might bee made pertakers of my comfortable delights and delightfull comforts takē in reading hereoff Not meaning like a chorle alone to deuoure such a rich banket furnished with so greate a number of Iunkets and delicate dishes but to inuite thervnto according to the intent of mine Author a company worthy such a feast which being first prepared and dressed very cunningly after the French fashion I haue for the great good will and zeale ●owe vnto my natiue Countrie and for their better taste translated and set foorth the same after the English manner wherein my small vnlearned skill desirous of sure supportacion and good defence craueth your grace as chiefe to giue me credite and countenaunce against the byting sting of Zoilous persons hereticall Papists whose stomacks may in no wise digest or abide the good wholesome dyet in this feast prepared whose vnsauorie tastes as I seeke not to content so I feare not to offende Trusting your grace will accept this my bolde enterprise as proceeding of heartie good will towards you and earnest loue borne vnto my countrie preferring my zealous intent and the Godlinesse of the matter vnto the vnworthinesse and slender skill shewed in the translation As I shall dayly pray vnto Almightie God to gouerne and direct your grace in all your affaires by his holy spirite remayning euer Your graces bounden during life Iohn Brooke Iohn Caluyn vnto the Readers THE loue of God our Father and the grace of our Lorde Iesus Christ be giuen to you and multiplyed from day to day thorowe the communion of the holy Ghost There is an auncient Poet which saith that he which delyteth and profiteth altogether in his writings hath gained the price and fauour towardes all men The same is spoken bicause of the diuersitie of natures It is very true that the onely doctrine wherein we knowe it to be good and profitable ought to suffice vs for to incitate and prouoke vs to reade willingly a booke to giue and bestowe thereon all our studie to loue and set by it and finally to take pleasure in it But there are a great many and well neere the most parte which will be a greate deale better pleased that one should teach thē after a gentle pleasant fashion then otherwise In such sort that as in recreating themselues they may profite receiue instruction liuen then as those which occupie themselues to make bookes of pastime vaine and friuolous which cause the world to reade them are to bee vituperated and despised although they haue no corruption in them So on the other side those which haue the grace so to teach that they doe both delight and profite the Readers thorowe their pleasant stile are double to be praysed And in very deede that is a vertue a gift which is not in al men Yea often times the wisest cannot atteine vnto it And which is more do make themselues to be laughed at in desning that which is not giuen vnto them For a man which desireth to vse mery conceits and iests ought to beware of two vices The one is that he do nothing of compulsion or laugh ouer much as there are a great many which haue cold laughters the which do seeme as though they were pulled out of their throat by force The other is not to vse baudy silthy talk the which is called in Latine scurrilitas in our language pleasant iestes But to keepe the meane that is to know how to speak effectually and with a good grace so for to recreate that there be nothing spoken foolishly at all aduentures or vncomely which is no common vertue I doe speake this by reason of these present Dialogues out of which a man may so gather good instruction and yet notwithstanding he shall haue occasion to laugh For the matter of it selfe is very pleasant And is set out with such grace that it cannot be but that a man shall take greate pleasure in the reading thereoff Our brother and companion in the worke of the Lord Iesus Peter Viret who is the Author hath by nature the vertue which I saide to be requisite in that man which will medle himselfe therein It is vertue true that as in all other workes he giueth himselfe vnto a better studie and of greater waight So in these Dialogues his principall intent is not to delight the eares And in verie deede that shoulde be but a small labour and a paine euill be stowed of a man of such witte and knowledge Furthermore besides the giftes that he hath of God he is called vnto a more higher calling But forasmuch as the matter that he hath taken in hand to entreate off sheweth that he teacheth by order of pastime and merrie iestes he pretendeth notwithstanding the right doctrine as the true marke to shoote at mingling with the same some merrie conceites as a companion therewith all Yea in such sort that this booke is a suffient witnes that be hath a singuler dextentie to doe it yea euen as much as he will himselfe that is to say as much as is needefull or conuenient I doe knowe that it is a daungerous thing and that no man ought at the first sight to allowe a booke But I feare not to haue any rebuke of good men of such as are of sounde Iudgement to haue commended the reading of that booke as a booke in which the time shal be wel bestowed I neede not to bring witnes nor to speake among those which know the man This onely knowledge will suffice for to as●ure them that they cannot say●e to stay themselues vpon it But bicause that it may
wée sée it by experience in young children merchants gentlemen damoisels and courtiers who after that they haue tasted of such bookes are cleane out of taste cannot away with all other which are not like vnto them Wherfore I would gladly counsaile such men of so good a minde and spirite which giue themselues to make such bookes and I desire and pray them in the name of Iesus Christe and so much as they loue his honour and theirs to applie that goodly wit and vnderstanding which GOD hath giuen vnto them and that rhetoricke and gift of eloquence wherewith they are indued into some better study matter more profitable to the ende they bée not rebuked and blamed to haue abused the gyft of God against his honour and glorie For that cause I haue purposed to write after a sort which peraduenture will séeme very euilly to agrée with a Theologian to wit vnto one which wil speake of diuine letters But I thincke that when men shal vnderstand my reasons they will take my aduice and deliberation in good parte and I will leaue vnto none any iuste occasion to accuse and rebuke mée in that I rebuke others except that men loue rather to serue to their affections and to vse slaunders then to iudge of thinges accordinge to truth and equitie I haue already touched some reasons which haue induced mée to do that besides yet I wyl adde too many others The first is that I would assay to make those learne by my example which haue a better wyt then I to doe that which I my selfe cannot the whiche thinge ought not to séeme to straunge For a whetstone a whéele doe sharpen well the Iron and maketh it to cut and yet neuerthelesse it is not sharpe nor cutteth of it selfe And at the least wise I indeuour my selfe to shewe vnto those good wittes and spirites which delyght themselues in pleasaunt thinges and which occupie themselues to such vanities and matters in the which they maye exercise their vnderstanding and cloquence more to their honour before GOD and good people and to more greater profit then they doe if they will not apply themselues vnto matters to high and waightie as many haue done as well amonge the olde as the newe And if I my selfe cannot doe that which I would teach vnto others at the leaste wise I will serue them in stéede of a patterne wherein they may finde some thing for to followe Or at the leaste wise the fault y they shal finde in my manner of procéeding wyll admonishe them of the vices that they ought to auoyde in their writinges the which if they finde in my stile or in my inuention or disposition I am sure that they shall not finde in the sentence and substaunce of the matters any thing vnworthy for a Christian man For whatsoeuer thinge that it bée I beléeue that one shall finde nothing which may induce to heresie except those who of themselues doe pretende therevnto and who as the Spiders doe drawe the venym from all places and heresies out of the holy Scriptures which are gyuen vnto vs to kéepe vs from all heresie Although that I doe mocke and iest at the abuses errours heresies superstitions and Idolatryes of the Churche of Antechriste Yet neuerthelesse whosoeuer shal wel marke and consider the matter and shall haue patience to reade all the tenoure of the sentence and of the Argument vnto the ende excepte hée be of a peruerse iudgement shall bée constrayned and compelled to acknowledge and confesse that I doe not mocke or scorne of thinges which are worthy not onely of mockery but also of hatred and abhomination of all mankinde And that I doe not onely vncouer the abuses without shewing by and by the true vse of y thinges nor I doe not condempne the errours and the lyinges without shewinge the trueth that wée muste followe and wherein the faithfull ought to stay themselues And I doe not manifest Antechrist for to auoyde and to flée from him without shewing Iesus Christe for to followe him Wherefore me thinckes that those which haue their eares so delicate and cannot onely abide one lyttle woorde against the Idolatry superstition the great abuses which leade all the worlde into ruine are not rightfull Iudges but of a corrupt and peruerse iudgement For what iudgement is this to heare and sée the name of God the death and passion of Iesus Christ to bée blasphemed dayly so horribly and not to speake a woorde And to bée such an vniust and sharpe rebuker and seuere Iudge agaynst those who onely in scoffing and iesting will admonish rebuke such blasphemers They doe willingly suffer that suche men doe mocke God openly that they doe blaspheme hym without any shame That they doe tourne vpside downe all Religion the truth of Iesus Christ That they make frustrate and of none effect the vertue and efficacie of his death and passion That they doe eate vp and deuoure his poore shéepe before their eyes That they doe leade the poore soules vnto perdition eternall dampnation doe holde all the world in errour Idolatry for to destroie them altogether And cannot we suffer that vnto such mockers blasphemers of God and of men one should onely giue a little holy water of the court and that one should sprinckle them with the least thing of y world onely with some little word or saying or with some pleasant word the which can hurt no man and which is no dishonour vnto God but serueth to discouer the abuses and to bring the mouths of y faithful out of fast with the idolatry and superstition and to manifest vnto them the seducers for the health of their soules I dóe greatly meruaile of those great louers of the honour of Hipocrites Sedusers false Prophets rauishers deuourers of the poore widdowes and fatherlesse mockers contemners blasphemers of the word of God haue so little regard or care of the honour of God of Iesus Christ our Lord whom they sée daily to be crucified before their eyes and to bée spurned and trodden vnderfoote the bloud of his testament and couenaunt and yet dare not speak a woord But which is worse they wil not yet suffer that others vnto whom God hath giuen the meanes and boldneess should speake and rebuke such abuses and sacrileges importable to all good Christian hearts Mée thinkes that such people haue no iust occasion to condempne vs in that behalfe For if they are too wise and doe thincke that such things agrée not with the grauitie of their persons then let them leaue them to be spoken of the fooles sith that as men doe say they haue the priuiledge to speake all things For as for my part I would be very well contented that God would giue me the grace that I might say vnto them as the Apostles sayd vnto the Corinthians Ye are wise and we are fooles for the loue of Christ If
the auncient Priestes of the lawe vnto whome GOD hath forbidden it For if they woulde bée Iewes and followe them in older thinaes they oughte also to followe them in thys or to yéelde a reason wherefore they followe them in one thing and not in an other Hillarius they had rather to followe the Gentyles and Panims in this behalfe For their Ceremonies and superstytions doo bringe vnto them more profite the which they followe notwithstandinge they are nothing worthe as I haue alreadye sayde Wherefore I thincke that they would haue made to others a lawe gathered out of all that whiche was euyll and wycked Theophilus It is then easelye to bée vnderstanded by all those thinges that the prayse that Neomi dyd gyue vnto Ruth sayinge The Lorde deale as kindlye wyth you as ye haue dealte wyth the dead And vnto Booz in lyke manner praysinge hym for that hée hath kepte for the deade that same grace and lyberalytie as he did vnto the liuinge regarding not the Masses prayers songes and sacrifices whiche they haue done for them But the loue and charitie that they haue shewed towardes the parents and friendes of the dead that be liuing Wherefore the holy Scripture declareth what mercy we ought to haue of the dead and what good déedes God requyreth of vs for them The prayers offerings and good deedes that Ruth that good wydowe did make for hir husbande that was dead was that she kept company faith and loyaltie wyth Noemi hir Mother in lawe hir husbandes mother A poore widowe both of husbande and children as shée hirselfe was she comforted hir in hir afflictions and aduersities And nourished cherished loued hir was attendaunt vpon hir in hir olde age as though she had bene hir owne mother In like manner the grace and loue that Booz hath also kept done vnto the sonnes of Noemi as well to those that were dead as to those the be liuing that is that euen as during their life he hath exercised loue and charitie towards them in cherising and comfortinge them the lyke affection hath he kept towardes them after they were deade And when he coulde no more ayde and succour them and that they had no more neede of him hée hath declared his loue that he dyd beare vnto them towardes the wydowes mothers and wiues of whome he hath had pittie and compassion hath hulpen them both in body goods procuring wyth all his power the honour and profite both of the one of the other vntill he did take to wyse that poore widowe Ruth the Moabite which was y graundmother of Dauid and hir remembraunce is celebrated with the same of Booz hir husbande in the gonealogy of Iesus Christe Wherefore we may knowe howe much the woorke bothe of the one of the other hath pleased God what remembraunce we ought to haue of the dead Thomas I doe finde that to bée the best waye to bestowe and giue the almose vnto the poore widowes and fatherlesse children for that is the true Religion then for to take their goodes and bestowe them vppon the dead or to waste and consume them vppon bawdes and harlots and vpon their children in like manner Hillarius I warrant you they will not followe any good example nor the certeine commaundement of God but what do they follow in this matter When I haue wel read ouer and ouer againe all the holy Scripture I doe not finde one worde And the most auncientest that I can finde which did first bringe in those manner of dooings among the Panims was Pluto of whome we will speake off héereafter whome the Docts and the Panims haue made the God of the soules and the king of the dead and of hell After him came Aeneas who did bringe that custome into Italy After Aeneas Romulus and Numa the Kinges of the Romaines afterwardes our Popes who haue contynued augmented and confirmed still more and more those errours and abuses Althoughe that the Panyms hadde yet a certeyne better opynion in the same then our superstitious Papystes hadde For they dyd not make the sacryfices for the deade for the estymation that they hadde that that shoulde serue them for to deliuer them from paines but for to appease them to the ende that their spirites shoulde not hurt them and doe them euill if they had displesed them when they were aliue For Plato himselfe who hath bene the one of the chiefest forgers inuenters of Purgatory witnesseth plainely that the parents friends cānot profit y dead And therfore saith he the parents friends and kinsslolkes ought to admomshe their friends that they do liue well and honestly and to do presently vnto them that good For there to wytte after this life they cannot giue it thē And before the iudgement seat there shall not be any great company of parents friends which shall mainteine and defende and intreate y Iudge and which canne obtaine of him that he wil pardon thée Theophilus I would to God that all our diuines bad no more euill and wicked opinions then that panim touching the dooings of the dead and that they had saide noe sentence lesse to be credited then this Thomas If the panims did not meane y their sacrifices commemoration should profit the dead wherefore did they it then Hillarius It might be that they did thinke that there might retourr● vnto them some little profit But yet neuerthelesse their cheife intent and purpose was to appease the soules of the dead and to reconcile them vnto them by that meanes to the end they should not hurt them either in their bodies or goods euen as they haue accustomed to celebrate scasts and to do sacrifices vnto the soules of holy men whom they did think to be in heauen with the gods for to haue ayd and solace as Aeneas did vnto his Father Anchises And all that errour procéeded from the false opinion that they had of the soules and for want of knowing their nature and estate therefore they iudged after their owne sence and vnderstanding and not after the word of god As they do also of the bodies thinking at the least the most supersticyous as it hath bene alreadye touched that the soule doth walke a certaine time if their bodyes hath not bad y honor of the burial such as apertameth was meete for them And that the bodies were in daunger of Enchantors and sorcerers which would abuse them thorow their Nycromancic coniuration And the Hebrewe Rabins and doctors of the Iewes and in no lesse dreaming For they say that the dead body is left in the power of the diuell who calleth him selfe Zazell and doe wrest and turne those places of the scripture for to confirme their erroure vnto whom it is said vnto the Serpent Thou shalt eate of the earth all the dayes of thy life And in another place The earth shal be the Serpents meate They woulde conclude