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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A12482	An answer to Thomas Bels late challeng named by him The dovvnfal of popery wherin al his arguments are answered, his manifold vntruths, slaunders, ignorance, contradictions, and corruption of Scripture, & Fathers discouered and disproued: with one table of the articles and chapter, and an other of the more markable things conteyned in this booke. VVhat controuersies be here handled is declared in the next page. By S.R.	Smith, Richard, 1566-1655.	1605 (1605)	STC 22809; ESTC S110779	275,199	548

though Q. Elizabeth had vtterly cast of the Popes friendship yet he forsooke not hir For Pius 4. supposing P. Pius 4. A. 1560. that she had reuolted from that Sea rather for feare lest her title to the crowne might be called in question because one P. had before declared her birth to be vnlawful then for dislike of the religion which in her father and sisters daies she had professed sent a Nuntio to promise her al fauor touching her title to the crowne And soone after an other to request her to send her diuines to the Councel of Trent with promise of al security and liberty Neither may I leaue your Maiestie out of the number of the Princes of this land who haue tasted the loue frindship of the Sea Apostolike Because P. Clement 8. 1603. out of your owne grateful mind you haue publiquely professed your Proclamat ●● 1. ●egni selfe behoulding vnto P. Clement 8. for his temporal carriadge and diuers kinde offices towards your Maiestie Besides he hath as it is reported censured al such as shal molest your grace and hath often times professed that he would willinglie giue his life for the eternal good of our countrey VVhich is the greatest loue that one can beare as our Sauiour testifieth vnto his friend Oh how great enimies are they vnto England who seeke by false slaunders to make such friends odious vnto vs. By this which hath bene said omitting much more for breuity your Maiestie clearlie seeth how greatlie and how continally the Sea Apostolique hath euer fauored the Christian Princes of this land how many and how great benefits both spiritual and temporal Popes haue bestowed vpon them and in their dangers and distresses according to their power assisted them VVeigh I beseech your grace in the ballance of your Princely wisdome the forsaid benefits with such as your selfe or Auncitors haue receaued from the rest of Christendom and Popes haue benefited Engl. more then al Christendome besyds you shal finde that the Sea Apostolicke alone hath more benifyted England then al Christendom besides and consequentlie that the forsaking of the Popes friendship hath more endammaged your Realme then if it had forsaken the rest of Christendom But especiallie I humblie beseech your Maiestie weigh them with such as Bel or any minister can shew you to haue receaued from their two seats of pestilence in witenberge and Geneua VVhat kingdomes haue they bestowed vpon you vnto what imperial or Royal dignity haue they exalted you from what Paganisme haue they conuerted your land what enimies haue they appeased what assistance haue they afforded you in any need what good litle or great haue they brought to this land Now what mischeefe haue they not brought That Bel in his ovvne iudgemēt vvas both an Apostata and Traiter vvhiles he vvas Preist one Apostata and fierbrand of seditiō Knox sent from Geneua brought more mischiefe to your Grandmother your B. mother to your father and Kingdom of Scotland then I can rehearse or your Maiestie without great griefe can remember Ministers pretend the loue of the Ghospel as the cause of persuading you from friendship with the Pope But yet disswade not from friendship with the Turke They pretend also your graces See Conser at Hampton Court p. 80. 81. security But the true cause indeed your Maiestie descried discouered in Knox to wit their owne security aduaūcement which they fear would be endangered if you kept your ancient and surest friend and therefore with your losse as your maiestie perceaued in your Grandmothers case they worke their owne wealth and security And thus much of the Popes The laue benefits of the British Kings to the Sea Apostolik Note this As for the Christian Princes of this land though they haue bene of foure different and most opposite nations to wit Britons English Danes and Normans yet haue they al agreed in keeping the league of friendship with the Pope being officious vnto him accoūting him their especial friend Of the British kings of this land first K. Lucius A. 156. Beda lib. 1. c. 4. is King Lucius whose particular affection towards the Sea Apostolick is euident by that he neglecting other Christian Churches neare vnto him he sent so far as to Rome for Preachers As for Constantin the great Constantin Mag. 324. the immortal glory of the British kings his extraordinary loue and affection vnto the Sea of Rome is more notorious then I need rechearse For he not only gaue vnto the Pope the gouernment of Rome and of a good parte of the west as besides him selfe and Latin historiographers Constant in edicto Isidor Eugubin de donat Constāt Grat. d. 69. Iuo Genebr in chron Photius seu Balsam in nomoran R. Abraham in Zikron Dibre Romi Abben Estra 11. Daniel Cadualader Polid. lib. 3. both Greecks and Iewes professed enimies to the Pope do testifie but also serued him as a lackey houlding his stirrop and leading his horse by the bridle Cadwallader also the last British king in England hauing lefte his countrey went no whither but to Rome and there ended his daies And if the histories of those anciēt times were more perfect or the Britons had raigned longer in this Iland no doubt but we should haue more examples of their deuotion to the Sea of Rome as appeareth by Salomon A. 869. Argenteus histor Brit. lib. 2. c. 27. Baron An. ●●9 Salomon their King in litle Britany after they had bene driuen hence by the Saxons who writing to Pope Adrian the second beginneth his letter thus Domino ac beatissimo Apost sedis Rom Hadriano Salomon Britanorum Rex flexis genibus inclinatoque capite And sendeth him his statua in gold with diuers rich guifts and money promiseth a yearlie pension and acknowledgeth his Royal title to haue bene giuen to him by Popes This was the loue of the British kings vnto the Sea Apostolike To the British kings succeeded the The loue benefits of the English Kings K. Ethelbert An. 596. Beda lib. ● c. 25. Saxons or English as wel in their loue and reuerence to the Sea of Rome as in their kingdome For king Ethelbert at the very first receaued S. Gregory his Legats very courteouslie prouided them of al things necessary and freelie licensed them to preach vsing these gratious words worthie to be imitated of your Maiestie in the like case For so much as you are come so far to impart vnto vs such knovvledge as you take to be true vve vvil not trouble you but rather vvithal courtesie receaue you After him king Ofwin hauing K. Osvvin A. 665. perfectly learned that the Church of Rome saith S. Beda was the Catholique Lib. 3. c. 29. and Apostolicke Church sent thither in the yeare 665. a Priest to be consecrated Archbishop of Canterbury And in a conference about the obseruation of Easter hearing that the keies of heauen were giuen to S. Peter

Controuersies handled in this booke 1. Of the Popes supremacie Article 1. through out 2. Of the real presence of Christ in the Sacrament of the Alter Article 2. chap. 1. 2. 3. Of the Sacrifice of Masse Art 2. chap. 3. 4. 5. 6. 4. Of the Popes dispensations Article 3. through out 5. Of Original sinne concupiscence Article 4. through out 6. Of merit of good workes Art 8. through out 7. Of the distinction of mortal and venial sinns Art 6. through out 8. Of the sufficiencie of the holy Scripture Art 7. cap. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 9. Of the difficultie of Scripture Ibid. chap. 6. 10. Of the vulgar peoples reading of scripture in vulgar tonges Ibid. c. 7. 11. Of the translating of holy Scripture into vulgar tonges Ibid. c. 8. 12. Of Traditions Art 7. chap. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. Of the authority of late general counsayles ibid. chap. 13. 14. Of the oathes of Bishops Ibid. chap. 14. 15. Of the possibility of keeping Gods commandments Art 8. through out TO THE MOST HIGHE AND MIGHTIE PRINCE IAMES By the grace of God King of great Britanie France and Ireland Defendor of the Faith YF S. Paul Most Gratious Soueraigne being accused of the whole Synagog of the Iewes by their Orator Tertullus of diuers heynous crimes both against Gods and the Princes lawes found notwithstanding such equitie in the heathen President Festus as that he answered his aduersaries that it was not the Romans custome to cōdemne Act. 2● any man before he haue his accusers present and place to make his answer and also such fauour at the The like reporteth Plutarch of K. Alexan. the great Act. 26. Iewish King Agrippa his hands as he both licenced him to speake for him selfe afforded him fauorable audience Much more cause haue your Maiesties Catholique Subiects being accused of the ministers by a hyred spokesman Bel to expect the like yea greater fauor equitie at your Graces handes For if the Romans though Heathens thought it iniustice to condemne any particular man at the clamors of a whole nation before his accusers were present and his defence were heard And if King Agrippa albeit He killed S. Iames and emprisoned S. Peter Act. 12. a Iew persecutor of Christians deemed it notwithstanding a Princes part to geuē audience to one accused of that Religion which he both hated and persecuted How much more wil a Christian Prince forbeare to condemne the vniuersal cause of his Catholique subiects at the slaunders and outcries of ministers one hyred Proctor before their accusers be brought face to face and they haue time and place graunted to answer for them selues wherein we shal account our selues more happy then S. Paul because we shal plead our cause not before a Iewish but a Christian King such a one as better knowerh the questions and customes of the Christians then King Agrippa did of the Iewes VVherfore seeing that of late Thomas Bel a fugitiue once from Protestants religion as he is now from Catholiques hath not only accused but also malitiously slādered the vniuersal Catholique cause in a booke which he hath dedicated to your Maiestie termed it the Dovvnefall of Poperie and withal challengeth dareth yea adiureth in which case our B. Sauiour Matth. 26. though with danger of his life made answer al English Iesuits Seminary Priests and as he speaketh Iesuited Papists to answer him I haue presumed vpon your Gratious fauour to accept his chaleng and am ready to performe it hand to hand if your Maiestie graunt licence and in the meane time to dedicate to your Name this my confutation of his arguments and slaunders VVherin I speake not for my selfe as S. Paul did before King Agrippa but for the religion of your owne Progenitors and Predecessors for the faith of our Forefathers for the cause of al Catholiques and for the good I dare say of your Maiesties owne person kingdoms For though Bel calumniate Christian Kinges and pag. 17. Emperors with opening the window to al Antichristian tyranny and Catholiques generally with thinking p. 1. 22. Christ to be killed a thousand times a day and the like yet especially he slandereth the Popes with vsurping power proper to God and to depose Princes and dispose of their kingdomes at his pleasure therby to alienate your mind from the Sea Apostolike wherin he not onely abuseth your patiēce with telling you vntruths but greatly harmeth and endamageth your selfe and Realme by endeuoring through Vir Apostata prauo corde machinatur malū omni tempore iurgia Seminat ●ouer c. 6. his false slanders to auert your minde from the Popes who haue bene the most ancient most assured and most beneficial frends which the Kinges Realme of England euer had VVhich thing that I may make manifest vnto your Grace I humbly beseech you geue me leaue to set downe some praticular examples of the mutual amitie kind offices benifites which haue euer bene betwixt the Popes and the Princes of this land VVherein if I be somewhat longer then men in Epistles The loue benefits of Popes to England and Kings therof S. Peter P. vse to be I hope that the varietie and profit of the matter wil make requital Not long after the Apostolike Seat was settled in Rome S. Peter the first Pope about the 63. yeare of Christ came hither as not only Gretians but Metaphrast tract de Pet. Paul apud Lippoman Cambden in descrip Britan●● p. 52. And Nicephor as he saieth Protestants also confesse stayed here a long time conuerted many Nations to Christs faith erected Churches ordered Bishops and Priests and being admonished of an Angel returned from hence to Rome to suffer Martyrdome Neither was this loue to our Countrie extinguished by death but as he promised to some so he had it 2. Pet. 1. also in mind after his death and miraculously assisted it in the greatest distresses So that truly wrote S. Sergius Malmesbur lib. 1. Pont. Angl. p. 209. 1. Pope vnto our Kings of England almost a thousand yeares agoe that S. Peter was mindful of them Pope Alexander 3. to King Henry 2. ●ugubin de donat Cōst that England was vnder S. Peters protection euer since Christs name was glorified there For when our country about the yeare 611. began to Apostatate from the faith of Christ and the Bishops were determined to forsake the land S. Perer appearing to Sainct Laurence Arch-bishop of Canturbury did seuerly rebuke and scourge him because he would abandon the flocke which I said S. Peter cōmitted vnto thee This miracle is so certaine as some Protestāts confesse it though Gadvvin in the life of S. Laurence some others wil not beleue it because they haue neither seene nor put their singers into S. Laurence his wounds yet it may suffice any indifferent man that it was auouched by S. Laurence beleeued by King Edbald his people lib. 2. hist

imputed to vs which S. Austin saith he meant S. Augustin lib. 1. retract c. 19. tom 1. when he wrote Then are al the commaundements reputed as done vvhen vvhatsoeuer is not done is forgiuen 9. But this is easily refuted For S. Iohn spake in respect of vs assisted by Gods grace when he said This is the law of God that we keepe his commaundements and his commaundements are not heauie He saith not Christ but we must keepe Gods commaundements to animate vs thereto he addeth that they are not heauy vz. to vs. And cap 2. v. 2. he giueth vs a signe to try if wee know God vz. if we keepe his commaundements Bel either keepeth Gods commaundements or knovveth not God and v. 3. affirmeth that who keepeth not his cōmaundements knoweth not God wherfore either Bel keepeth the cōmandements or he knoweth not God Likewise Christ meant his yoake was sweete and his burthen light to vs. For immediatly before he Cap. 11. v. 29. said Take vp my yoake vpon you learne c. and you shal finde rest to your soules For my yoake is sweet and burthen light To whom meaneth he it is light but to vs whom he biddeth take it vp and whom he promiseth shal finde rest by it or what reason had it bene for Christ to exhorte vs to take vp his yoake and tel vs we should finde rest by it because it is sweet to himselfe As for S. Austin he said our defectuous keeping S. Augustin sup to 1. is counted a ful keeping when the defect is pardoned which is a farre different thing from saying That Christs keeping is counted our keeping And he meaneth that our keeping is defectuous because we keepe not the commaundements ad vnum apicem as he saith to the last ioat or title But through venial sinnes haue need to say Forgiue vs our trespasses which venial trespasses being pardoned we are accounted to doe al Gods commaundements 10. An other answer Bel putteth in the pag. 152. margent and in latine That Christ meaneth not of the yoake and burthen of the law when he calleth it sweet and easy but of the Ghospel That Christ meant of the law of the Ghospel I graunt with S. Hierom S. Hierom. dialog 2. contr Pelag and is proued out of these wordes my yoake my burthen But what is this to the purpose Is Bel become a libertine thincking as his father Luther did that the tenne commaundements Luther belong not to Christians or that the Ghospel commaundeth only faith Did Math. 5. v. 19. Christ come to dissolue the law of nature and to exempt vs from al law but of belieuing in him If Bel be of this minde let him vtter it plainly and say Christ came not to fulfil the law but to dissolue it that his Rom. 3. v. 31. faith establisheth not the law but destroieth it Or if he thinke that the law of the ghospel Besides the precepts of faith includeth at least the law of nature let him confesse that the tenne commaundements and al that God bindeth vs vnto is not only possible but easy and sweet vz. to such as Psalm 118. v. 32. Omnia facilia sunt charitati cui vni Christi sarcina leuis est Aug. donat grat c. 69. to 7. see the place S. Iohn loue God as was Dauid when he said I haue runne the way of thy cōmaundements when thou didst dilate my hart And hovv sweet are thy speeches to my iawes aboue hony to my mouth The law of thie mouth is good to mee aboue thowsands of golde and siluer For as S Iohn saith 1. c. 5. v. 3. this is the loue of God that wee keepe his commaundements If Bel say that it is impossible to loue God as we ought to doe This is reproued because he loueth God as he should doe who loueth him withal his hart al his Deuter. 6. v. 5. soule and power But Iosue so loued God of whome it is written 4. Reg. 23. That he 4. Reg. 23. returned in al his harte in al his soule and al his strength Likewise Dauid sought God Dauid in al his hart Psalm 118. and followed him in al his harte 3. Reg. 14. And God hath vers 8. some seruants that walke before him in al their hart with whome he keepeth his couenant and mercy 2. Paralip 6. v. 14. And Deuter. 30. v. 6. God promiseth to circumcise the Iewes harts that they might loue him in al their harts and al their soule And thus much for proofe out of scripture now let vs goe to the Fathers CHAP. II. The possibility of keeping Gods commaundements proued out of Fathers and reason MANY holy Fathers I might alleadge for this verity but I wil content my selfe with two only whome Bel obiecteth against him selfe and vndertaketh to answer S. Hierom. See S. Hierom in cap. 5. Mathei S. Hierom dialog 1. contr Pelag. we confesse saith he God hath giuen possible commaundements lest he should be author of iniustce Beholde our conclusion both affirmed and proued And Dialog 2. I say a man may be without vice which in greeke is called cacia but not anamartyton that is without sinne which is as much as if he had said He can be without mortal but not without venial sinne Againe God hath not commaunded impossible things but hath ascended vp to such height of patience as for their great difficulty he may seeme to haue commaunded almost impossible things Againe we curse their blasphemie who saie That God hath commaunded to man any impossible thing This Bel alleadgeth out of his 3. fourth booke pag. 153. against Pelagians whereas he wrote but one epistle and three bookes or Dialogues against Pelagians But it is in his epistle to Damasus de exposit fidei And therein S. pag. 149. S. Austin See S. Austin in Psal 56. tom 8. vvhere he saith the Apostles did that charity then the vvhich none can be greater Hierom curseth this blasphemy of Bel God hath giuen vs those commaundements which we can not possibly keepe Likewise S. Austin ser 61. de temp God could not commaund any impossible thinge because he is iust The same he repeateth lib. de natur grat cap. 69. and lib. 2 de pen. mer. remiss and in psal 56. I can not doubt saith he that God hath neither commaunded any impossible thinge to man nor that any thinge is impossible to God to helpe wherby it may be ●one which he commaundeth 2. For auoiding these authorities Bel deuiseth three shiftes First that Gods commaundements were possible to vs before Adams fal Secondly that they were possible to Christ whose keeping them is accounted ours Thirdly that euen to vs they are now possible to be kept imperfectly though not perfectly which is saith he the doctrine of Aquinas yet seeing that S. Thom. 2. 2. quaest 44. art 6. vntruth none of these shiftes would serue he falleth to proue that we may be

because S. Paul the seed of God is in them neither sinne nor can sinne 1. Ioh. 3. vers 9. and consequently S. Iohn auoyd the foresaid curse Neither doe their venial sinns incurre the curse for it is pronounced only against heynous crimes namely Idolatry incest murder and the like as is euident by the 27. of Deuter. Deu●● from whence the Apostle reciteth the curse But Bel who confesseth him selfe to incurre the crime accursed by the law must needs confesse him selfe to be vnder that curse or say that he is not bound to Gods lawes made against Idolatrie Incest murder and the like 3. The like text he bringeth out of S. pag. 144. Iames. 2 v. 10. whosoeuer shal keepe the whole law and offended in one is made guilty of al. This place also maketh rather against Bel. For it supposeth that al the law may be kept as wel one point as the whole and only teacheth that the keeping of the whole law wil not saue if one point thereof be deadly broken But this is nothing against Gods children who as long as his seed abideth in them sinne not Ioh. 3. v. 9. S. Ioh. nor offend deadly in one point but abide both in the whole law and euery pointe thereof 4. Diuers other places Bel alleadgeth to proue that al men are sinners and that the iust doe sinne which no Catholique denyeth as Bel might learne out of the Tridentine Councel But how followeth it Concil Trident sess 6. cap. 11. thereof that the Iust whiles they are Iust sinne deadly or cannot auoyd al deadly sinne This is the marque which Bel should pag. 143. shoot at and hoped in the beginning of this article to hit the naile on the head but as S. Hierom said to a Luciferian whiles he S. Hierom. dialog contra Lucifer followeth his vaine of gainsaying he hath mist the question as some rather praiers then speakers vse to doe who not knowing to dispute yet cease not to quarrel CHAP. IIII. Bels arguments out of Fathers against the possibility of keeping Gods commaundements ansvvered FIRST out of S. Austin he alleadgeth pag. 145. S. Augustin lib. 1. de doctrin Christ c. 22. to 3. that God commaunded vs to loue him with al our hart soule and mynde and thereby left no part of our life vacant to take fruition of any other thinge But S. Austin in these words meant nothing els but that wee must loue nothing as our end and for it selfe but Gods for so he vseth the worde fruition and therfore addeth which Bel left forth But what other thing commeth to our mynde to be loued let it be carried thither whither the whole current of loue runneth 2. Other words he citeth our of lib. de pag. 146. perfect iusti ratiocin 16. but they are in 17. cap. 8. where S. Austin writeth That as long as there is any thing of carnal concupiscence which may be bridled by refrayning God is not loued omnimodo altogether with al the soule And yet though none in this life haue that perfection it is commaunded because it is not wel runne if it be not knowne whither to runne Answer What S. Austins meaning is herein himselfe explicateth saying that the precept of louing God withal our soule is not omnimodo altogether fulfilled whilst we haue inordinate motions He denyeth not substantial fulfilling which auoideth sinne yea lib. de spir liter cap. vlt. affirmeth S. Augustin tom 3. that though wee did not loue God withal our harts and soule so as we had no motions of lust yet if wee did not obey them we need not to aske God forgiuenes but only denyeth omnimodam impletionem which in the place cited he called most supereminent perfection of louing God and saith not it belongeth to this but to the next life vz. to bee perfectly perfourmed Wherfore when he saith such perfection is commaunded in this life he meaneth not that it is commaunded as a thing which we are bound to perfourme but only as an end to which we should runne For though saith De perfect instit loc cit he no man perfourme it yet we runne not wel if we knovv not vvhither to runne and hovv should we knovv if it vvere shevved by no precept 3. Next he citeth S. Thomas only because pag. 147. S. Thomas ● 2 q. 44. art he vseth the words perfectly and imfectly But how coutrary to Bels meaning hath bene before explicated which reproueth his vntruth in affirming himselfe to teach the selfe same doctrine with Aquinas What hath bene said to S. Austin and S. Thomas is to be applied to S. Bernarde S. Bernard hom 50. i● Cant. when he saith in the like sort that the precept of louing God can not be fulfilled in this life And that God in commaunding impossible things made not men preuaricators but humble For beside that S. Bernard as himselfe speaketh this only if the precept of loue be vnderstood of affectual charity or charity in worke and graunteth that so it is fulfilled if it be perfectly obserued as said he a litle before it may be in this life by Gods grace Besides this I say immediatly before the words which Bel cyteth he graunteth that initium perfectumque the beginning and perfection of charity may be experienced by Gods grace in this life If perfection be had surely the precept is fulfilled For as himselfe saith sone after doest thou not thincke is sufficient to the fulfilling the precept of louing thie neighbour if thou obserue it perfectly And Bel pag. 151. graunteth that who perfectly obserueth the law shal be iustifyed 4. And though he differ or as he speaketh defend the consummation of charity to the next life and therefore accoumpt the precept of charity impossible as far forth as it imbraceth the consummation yet he meaneth not that it imbraceth consummation as a thinge needful to be perfourmed which he saith shal be our reward in heauen but as the end to which men ought to endeuour vt scirent saith he ad quem iustitiae finem pro viribus niti oporteret that they might know to what end of iustice they ought to endeuour withal their power Behoulde he saith not that we ought to attaine to the said end but to endeuour al that we can and therefore God in commaunding that end in such sort as he doth maketh men no finners though they attaine not to it 5. After these fathers he bringeth two pag. 150. reasons The one out of our Lords prayer where we are taught to aske forgiuenes But where pardon is demaunded ths law is not exactly obserued The other is out of our daily confessions where we acknowledge our fault and most great fault Answer As the petition of forgiuing our sinns doth euidently conuince that we doe not so exactly keep the law as we neuer swarue from it So the other petition of doing Gods wil in earth as it is in heauen euidently