there anye thing in the Fathers for some especiall cause moouing vs misliked of vs By and by we haue this theoreme at our fingers end We must remember they were but men and because men may easilie erre we muster whatsoeuer we mis-conceiue of them among the errors of that age In the meane while wee neuer remember our selues that we also are but men and therfore may erre with them yea we are such men neither are we exempt from the common infirmitie of men who may then er when we thinke amisse of them and in that verie thing may wee erre for the which we condemne them This is once that against the constant and consonant conclusions of the ancient church we ought not to attempt or admit anie innouation without a plaine commission from Gods holie writ and this also I dare boldly say that whosoeuer taketh away al authoritie from the Fathers he leaueth none for himselfe Indeed it must bee confessed that the Fathers were men and that they had their wrinckles yet can it not be denied that to haue our Fathers to bee our Patrons in the principal points of faith and externe pollicy of our church things controuerted betweene the Popelings and vs is a matter of no small moment and of especiall account And albeit the vniforme consent of Gods children from the Apostles times vnto this day may not be compared with the eternall word of God Notwithstanding of right it may come in and stand for the second place The custome of gods people receiued of all Churches thorow out the whole world is in maner of a lawe sacred and inuiolable Neither is there any likelihood that there could euer haue beene an vniuersall consort of all Churches and ages without either the authoritie of gods word or the tradition of the Apostles Notwithstanding for as much as no consent no custome no auncient prescription can or ought to preuaile in the Church of Christ against the word of God Therefore those reasons are to be weighed and those Scriptures to bee examined which mooued the Fathers to intertaine and continue that Church gouernment which our newe reformers will in no case agree vpon that we may certainelie know whose is the error theirs or ours The time hath bene when no good men disallowed of Bishops and Archbishops but now in despite of the Popes tyranny his complices it is come to this passe that their very names are called into question and that of diuerse men for diuerse causes Some because they are as they suppose the deuises of Antichrist or his fore-runners thinke them vnworthie thee Church and worthie to be cast ouer-boorde Others yet more modest in some reuerence of antiquitie thinke they may be borne with all for a time although in the mean time they allow not of them vntill such time as commodiouslie the names may bee antiquate with the thinges themselues In the meane while for that they know neither can they be ignorant to what singular effect the Church of God hath bin gouerned by graue and godlye Bishops they haue not the face to condemne them openly yet because they see certaine reformed Churches of this age to be gouerned without Bishops It is enugh they haue not the power any longer to tollerat the more auncient gouernment O the regiment of Pastors and Elders passing all antiquitie our soules haue longed for thee and we haue a desire vnto thee for that thou alone art grounded vppon the Lord Iesus his institution and thou if any art wholy purified of all tyranny and ambition O but by your leaue good brethren the shadowe you imbrace is no substance neither is the plot you conceaue a priueledged place Are you so far in loue with your liuelesse Pigmalion the worke of your owne hands I know who is not hee hath reason for his why not For neither is your newe draught of straunge gouernement sufficientlye prooued by the word of God neither is it yet or can at any time bee confirmed by the example of our Elders And how should it if we should iudge aright of it seeing it was partly vnknowen vnto them as a thing insolent and not heard of and partlie condemned of them as a thing Heriticall and not approoued of Wherefore to speake the plaine truth without flatterie or partialitie I thinke of this new forme of Church gouernment as some thinke of our Bishops regiment Namely that it is but a deuise of mans conceit and there to be tollerated where a better cannot bee obtained And contrariwise that which is disallowed of some as deuised by man seemeth vnto me to bee the verie ordinance of God and the onely true gouernment of the Church as that which hath his institution from God not only in the old but in the new Testament But because it is defiled with the manifolde abuses of men that which were to be layd vppon the person is imputed to the function as if forsooth no such miscariage might befall this their nouell kinde of gouernement The Romish Antichrist with his Bishops Archbishops Patriarches and Metropolitanes hath so troubled and intangled the Church of Christ that tyranny it selfe is thought to bee masked vnder those honest and honorable titles It is most true He that is once stong of a Serpent suspecteth euery stone and once bitten of a dog is affraid of euery cur Some therefore that they might apply some remedy to this maladie haue reuersed those names and yet retained the same things and for Bishops haue anoynted Superintendents and for Archbishops generall or prouinciall Superintendents as if the controuersie were not for the thing it selfe but for names sake But wise as we are seeing the signification of wordes is variable and voluntarie when we agree in truth what neede these garboyles about termes If the formes of gouernment which are signified by those termes are contained in gods worde Is there anie reason or sense that in disgrace of those names these formes should not be retained of vs If any man obiect that in the gouernment of Bishops there are many corruptions I make no question of that So wee might cauill with the gouernment of the ciuill Magistrate hath it not his corruptions Haue they not their infirmities Yet was there neuer anye that had his fiue wits who thought that a sufficient reason to remooue those from their place that are president in the state Wherefore our question is not how the Bishops haue abused their authoritye but whether the Lorde hath so forbidden this their Primacy that there may bee nor Pastor ouer Pastor nor Bishop ouer Bishop in the outward pollicie of the Church As for the rest if any will accuse the Bishops or their Consistories either of neglect dutie or corrupt dealing no man will be their hinderance why they may not prosecute that and persecute them before the chiefe Magistrate I take not vppon mee the apologie of anie Bishop I am not so worthie they are not so weake as that they need my Patrocinie
and it hath ben handled at large also yet all little enough Such is the female misconceit of the lasciuious malecontent and the male miscontent of the learned ignoraunt of this age euer learning and neuer able to come to the knowledge of the truth Notwithstanding seeing in the iudgement of the most wise and best learned this Germane Booke seemed for sound iudgement inferiour to none and for graue discourse equall to any it was therfore thought by them an action no lesse commodious to the people then commendable to the Author that he who in the causes of present controuersie hath propounded his iudgement vnto all shoulde haue his iudgement expounded vnto vs. The which although it hath beene curstly censured by a certaine suspicious and suspected Criticke emulous of his betters credite who in his professed lectures hath vsed the remembraunce of his name in disdaine with Sarauia nescio quis Yet his best auditors there and others his betters elsewhere haue found this difference betweene Sarauia and him that besides his great learning and no lesse experience of the which this great Censor neuer had the one neuer will haue the other Sarauia hath made knowen to him and the whole world by this his resolute definitiue who he is whereas the other in one whole tearme hath so behaued himselfe in the same cause that albeit wee all know who he is yet we could neuer tell where to finde him So hoppeth he betweene the stone and the Altar that as a man distract betweene feare and flattery he maketh vp his doubtfull resolution with this harmelesse confession Sentio quod sentio quod nescio I know what I know what I doe not know I but now we see the aduerse part partly by theyr lawlesse outrage and partly by theyr lawfull restraint to be nowe as impotent in their faction as they are odious in their opinion to be at this time as vnable as they were at all times vnworthy to preuaile and then what neede we any longer striue when the ennemy can no longer stand I aunswer that their increase was seene long since to be at the full and their credite appeareth euen now to be in the Waine For the which as we are to giue God thankes who in taking Iustice vpon some of them hath taken pitty vpon the whole Church so likewise are we to pray for the rest that in good time we may see eyther theyr speedy amendement or their present preferment For it is time O Lord that thou haue mercy vppon Sion yea the time is come Notwithstanding in the meane time wee haue entertained this profered aide not so much to inuade the seditious brethren or to bring home the resolued recreant as to strengthen the godly Subiect and to bring forward the well affected Protestant With the which if any man finde himselfe agreeued let him shew for it but so that Sarauia may vnderstand what he saith For my part if I haue conceiued him right the fruite is yours if I haue deliuered him not right the fault is mine Sure I am the Author meant you well and my Authors And so doe I. The Translator TO THE MOST REuerend father in Christ John by the prouidence of God Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Primate of al England and Metrapolitane To the renovvmed and most honored Heroicke Sir Christopher Hatton Knight of the most noble order of the Garter and high Chauncellour of England As also to the noble and right honorable Sir William Cecill Baron of Burghley Knight of the most noble order of the Garter and high Treasurer of England of her Maiesties most Honorable priuy Counsell my very good Lordes true felicity THe auncient receiued custome of dedicating books to men of name and authority is growne and grounded vppon many reasons great waighty all which it shal be needelesse for me to reuise in this place But for my part there are chiefly three causes mouing me to consecrat this my small trauell to you the most Honorable and honored of me my good Lordes First that thereby I might testifye vnto you the duety and deuotion of a loyall and gratefull minde towards you that find my selfe seuerally and singularly bound vnto you all and euery one of you For first one of you vppon my repaire into England disdained not to entertaine me a stranger with no straunge countenance and straunge courtesie The other also dained to accept me vnworthy into his owne family And the other of his especiall fauour brought to passe that by her Maiesties priuiledge and preferment I might be made of a forreiner a freeman of an alien a Cittizen And seeing I haue receiued all these fauours without any deede or desert of mine God thou knowest mine vnworthines I were but too ingrate and vnkinde if I should bury in darke and deepe silence your so rare and religious demerites But whereas I haue no other thing to render or repay vnto your Honors but a mine of thanks and a thankfull minde that mind wil I alwaies beare and that duety in minde so that I will not cease to worship the sacred memory of your religious loue towardes me Another cause is the very nature of the argumente I vndertake the which I could not well prosecute without some particular mention of the Church of England In the which seeing I haue now my part and portion of a pastoral prouince and praised be the Lord my lotte is fallen vnto me in a faire ground might I not seeme vnmindfull of my good neglecting my duty if when I vndertake the cause of those Churches which are alien and outlandish I should ouerslip the state of mine own Church now gremiall to me and mere English But when mine hearts desire and praier to God is that I may some waies benefite my countreymen if I forget thee O Ierusalem And yet if I should forget my duety herein the meere alliance and relation of the matters them selues is such and so great as that by ordinary course of necessary consequence I must be inforced to inferre and praefer the mention thereof in my bookes But because I am but new made of Flemish sterling that is of Outlandish English it may be happely that they which are home-bred will thinke I deale not wel with them to deale with them and that I meddle too farre when I come so neare For which cause I thought it necessarye for mee to commend and commit my selfe vnto your Honorable patrocinie that this stranger book might freely passe vnder your safe conduct Neither shall it grieue me much though it be vniustly cast by most voices if it may iustly passe your accoumpt neither shall it hurt me much though the inraged multitude in disordered throngs cast stones at mee only if your Honors vouchsafe to giue me the white stone But the last cause is for that I am in some doubt how this discourse will be taken of them for whose sakes especially it was vndertaken For it is to be feared that they
the preaching of the worde and the vse of the Sacraments was not giuen to the Church onely for the Apostles time but that they might continue vnto the age to come euen to the worlds end So likewise the forme of gouernement which was ordayned of God and deliuered of the Apostles and confirmed of the fathers ought to remayne and continue in like sort But that forme had Pastors inferior and superior and therefore that also is to be retained in the Church of God Neither doth the equality in the Ministery hinder why there may not be an inequality in the policie of the Church In the olde law there was one Priesthood equall and alike to al the Priests yet were ther diuerse degrees of Priests in respect of gouernment and in an equall order of Priesthood there was a not equall Honor of gouernement Neyther is it preiudiciall to vs that theyr Priesthood was Leuiticall and typical seeing the state gouernement which was among the Priests and Leuits did not so much respect any intricate type as a well ordered state that al things might be done decently and in due order Wherefore for as much as God himselfe was author of that policy and gouernment in the which Leuits were subdued to Leuits and Priests to Priests it ought not to be recounted any humaine constitution where a Minister is subiect to a Minister and one Pastor to an other For that is no more vnlawfull at this day then it was at that That our Sauiour by no statute repealed the supereminent authority of Pastors among themselues Chap. XV. AS for our Sauiour and his censure in this matter I do not finde that by any meanes he did abolish the superiority of Ministers but rather that he did establish it when as in the first ordinaunce of the Ministery he appoynted Ministers of the Gospell some superior some inferior to the rest To the which ordinance of Christ those his words are not any whit aduerse where he sayth The Kinges of the nations rule ouer them and they which haue power among them are called gratious but it shall not be so with you but he that is greatest among you let him be as the least and he which is chiefe as he that ministreth c. The true and plain sense of which words is this Your kinde of gouernment shal be diuerse from that which is proper to Princes whether you take those which are more tyrannous and truculent ouer theyr people or those which in theyr gouernment are more milde and moderate accor-to their lawes Doth this sence or sentence take away that difference of persons which the law of nature and the rule of gouernmēt do prescribe If ther be any place in the Gospell and ther are many which may be cited for the superiority of Ministers this is one For vnlesse the Lord had meant that in the gouernment of the Church there should be some greater then the rest he would neuer haue sayd Hee which is greatest among you let him be as the least he might haue made short worke of al and as soon haue sayd There is none first among you none greatest none chiefe But he that is greatest among you saith he let him be as the least and he which is highest as he that ministreth Which were no aduice wher there is none higher then another Where all shall be alike what need there any precept how he which is greatest amōg them should behaue himselfe The meaning therfore of this precept is this How much any of you is superior to the rest so much more submisse shall he carry himselfe towards the rest For albeit all the Apostles were of the same order and power yet the difference of age and diuersity of gifts was great among them and therefore it could not be but that they which had receiued greater gifts of the Lord shoulde receiue greater countenance of men The Apostle Paul in his first Chapter to the Galathians doth sufficiently declare this where he sheweth that he had conferred of the Gospell with them which seemed to bee somewhat the which he foorthwith repeating againe sheweth that there were certayne of these Apostles of chiefe authority among the rest of whome notwithstanding he affirmeth that hee receyued nothing Such was the mildnes and moderation of his spirite hee would not goe about to make that equal in-equality odious of the which the Lord himselfe was the author For hee well knew that neyther he which had receiued fiue talents ought to thinke he hath but two and much lesse he which hath but two to compare himselfe with him that hath fiue And in deede can there be any reason giuen why there should be rather an inequality in gouernement then in other gifts or doe men abuse authority onely to maintayne theyr tyranny Doubtlesse it is not greatly materiall with what giftes a man enthronize himselfe Pope ouer his brethren whether for his fine witte or deepe knowledge or smooth eloquence or any other such inward vertue Whether for the holines of life or strictnes of fasts or largenes of almes or any such outward complement or else for his wealth his worship and superiour authority As for the aunswere of our Sauiour it extendeth far and neare neyther is it to be referred to the Apostles alone as if it were onely forbidden an Apostle to domineere ouer an Apostle but it stretcheth it selfe vnto al other For albeit the power was great in the which they were to be installed of the Lord to the benefit of the church notwithstanding that was rather to be imployed of priuate men ouer priuate persons and thereupon the Lord forbiddeth that they should after the manner of Kings and Princes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is domineer or rule by force Hence is it that Paul writeth to the Corinthians Not that we haue dominion ouer your faith but that we are ministers of your ioy 2. Cor. 1.24 1. Pet. 5.3 And in the first of Peter Not as if we ruled by force ouer the chosen For that in deede because it beseemed men priuate ouer priuat men the Lord hath forbidden his Apostles that and hath taught them rather to make the harts of the people to relent by lenity and intreaty as we read the Apostle Paul did in many places specially in the second to the Corinthes 2. Cor. 5.20 where he thus writeth VVherefore are we now ambassadors in the name of Christ as though God did beseech you through vs wee intreate you in the name of Christ that yee bee reconciled to God And yet notwithstanding in other places he is again more sharpe and seuere as when he sayth VVhat will yee shall I come vnto you with a rod or in loue and the spirite of meekenes And in the latter Epistle the tenth Chapter when hee speaketh of that power he receyued of the Lord he sheweth how little primacy was in the Church in such things as pertayned to the kingdome of God By all
and which God of old exacted vnder the law before the law without the which no man at any time shall enter into the kingdome of Heauen In deed it becommeth the preachers of the Gospel to appeare before all others in the contempt of worldly things but yet there is no peculiar precept thereof giuen to them any otherwise then to all other christians As also for the example of Christ which they aledge they cannot be ignorant of this that it is set forth to be imitated not only of the apostles ministers of the gospell but generally of al christians of what condition soeuer But nor patterne nor precept of Christ either confoundeth or controleth the degrees of honor which are necessary in a common wealth All men may lawfully be liberall towardes the poore and be poore themselues also in spirit euē in the midst of their welth Nor Daniel his lieutenancy ouer the Babylonians nor Ioseph his iurisdictiō ouer the Aegyptiās nor Mardochai nor Nehemias their courting among the Persians were any hinderance to them in the worship of God Neyther was yet the roiall Diademe of Dauid and other godly Princes any preidiudice vnto them why they might not inherite the kingdome of Heauen Wee haue read of the great wealth of Iob and Abraham and other Patriarches who were religious towardes God liberall towardes the poore and farre from all coueteousnes Neyther doth penury conclude neyther doth plenty exclude the contempt of riches If a man haue nothing and yet languishe in a desire to haue he is couetous againe if a man haue much but yet is not bound to that which he hath he is the true contemner of all that he hath The precepts of Christ concerning the selling of our possessions are vnderstood to be obserued not so much in the work it selfe as in the willingnes of minde to performe the same according as time and place doth require Actes ◠Barnabas one of the seuenty sold no lād before he see the necessity of the brethren to exact the same So long as the Lord liued whom also he followed he kept possession of all his possessions In like manner such times may fall and we may fal into those times in the which christian charity shal require euery christian to do the like but where ther is no such need it is better kept and it shall doe more good and vppon more occasions then if all were sold at once afterwards want wherwith to relieue other or themselues c. I dare say that Abraham Iob and Dauid followed the precepts of the Gospel good christians are as well to imitat them as Christ his Apostles Our Sauiour himselfe witnesseth of Zacheus that he was the child of Abraham in imitation of the faith which was in Abraham n amely when as he vndertook to giue halfe of that he had to the poore to restore four fould wher he had defrauded By which words of our Sauior the vanity of that reason is conuinced which affirmeth that God cockred the Patriarches and the Leuitical Priests as a carnal people in riches and honour which thinges the Lord hath denyed to christian Pastors In deede we will not deny but some things were giuen in those times of an especial and a partiall fauor and that God did winke at some things of old which at this day he wil not ouer-see For then the cōmon error of al nations had in som things inuaded the people of God also as in their many wiues and often diuorses c. But that God did not onely pamper the Fathers with things externall and did not erect the minds of the faithful to things eternal it cannot be spoken without a mouth of blasphemy against God and a slander of iniury against the Fathers Ther was the same faith of the Fathers vs the same doctrine of both the testaments the time onely is altered such things being fulfilled which fore-shewed of the Messias in religion maners ther is no such alteration Who wil say and not repent him that those most sage wise Heroicks of that age were ignorant of the nature of riches the condition of this present life namely that they were diffluent distrustful scarce worthy to be taken for goods and that man ought to aspire to a greater more excellent good which is certaine and not to be suspected and stands vppon no die The very Philosophers knew these things and argued very religiously of them and did the diuine Prophets the seruants of God conceiue nothing more noble then these earthly things nothing can be sayd of purpose more absurd Wherfore let this opinion fly and let vs resolue vppon that which is certain That ther is one way of life prescribed to all men and that the onely one way of vertue constant to be continued in al ages For it was giuen of God And againe That we may safely follow the Fathers when they cannot be proued to haue erred from that course of life which was prescribed both to them to vs and therfore if it were then lawfull among Gods people for the Priests and Leuites to inioy riches and to be adorned with honors the same is also lawfull at this day for the Ministers of the Gospell in a christian common wealth As for the Philosophers which as they say had riches in so light account I also say that the same thing is taught vs by Christ after a more excellent maner and that he is not worthie the name of a Christian that doth not excell the Philosophers in the same thing For they both erred from the true scope and besides a vaine and popular applause they gained nothing by their foolish and vnprofitable losse Neither hath Christ taught vs to cast awaye our goods but to giue them vnto the poore Goods are receiued of God for the vse of man they which are rich receiue them of God not to loose but to laye out but they as if the thinges themselues had beene euill not of mans corruption but of their owne condition cast them cleane away When goods are called the prouocations of euill you must vnderstand that they are so called not that themselues are in fault but they onely which abuse them Whatsoeuer God hath created is good and hath some good vse that therfore one hath cast all his wealth into the Sea an other hauing conuaied all his substance into a few precious stones crusht them all vnto powder it was an action of vaine and ridiculous applause of no good vse But the precepts of Christ do direct vs to the loue of God and our neighbours vnto whome wee owe all that we haue The contempt which wee see in some currish Philosophers and certaine smokie brethren of this age is far from the loue either of God or of man and it is well seene howe farre it is estranged euen from that humanity and humaine ciuility which ought to bee in men But the pouertye of
Magistrate But it seldome falleth out that Pastors haue only euil men in their parishes the Lords flocke is mixt of good and bad The good doe loue that which the wicked doe hate whom to displease is a great praise among good men who will not suffer the faithful Minister to suffer losse for his wel doing but will themselues supply that which they shall see wanting on the part of the wicked But there is commonly alledged an other commodity of these stipends namely this for that the Ministers may not seeme to take any thing of them of whom they ought not as are the notorious vngodly and noted Heretiques with whom a man ought not to haue any thing to doe as also of the good and godly beeing poore and needy to whome a man ought rather to giue as are widows orphans the sick and needy whome to pill and pole is a point of cruell Religion But I pray you where doth the Magistate receaue or of whome doth he contract those things by the which the Ministers are paied their stipends Of their owne goods or out of the publique treasurie but is not that confusedly gathered of the wicked togeather with the godly of the poore together with the rich This is indeed a strange religion that it shall not be lawfull for Pastors to take of them of whome the Magistrate taketh that he giueth them All men pay subsidie and other tributes of the common-wealth without respect of person euery man according to the moity of hys substaunce Of them which haue nothing they take nothing But this their religion is like vnto that of the Franciscanes who when they make great daintie to handle anye money with their proper fingers they haue other to doe it for thē I admit it is a thing not beseeming a godly Pastor to take of all commers but as the voluntary oblations of wicked rich men are not to bee receaued so the free offerings of godlie poor men are not to be refused so that they exceed not the ability of the giuer For although it be litle which is giuen yet seeing it is the fruite of godlines it ought neither to bee contemned of the Pastor nor yet suppressed in the faithfull But bee it remembred that I said the voluntary oblations of the wicked for no doubt a Minister of the Gospel may take tythes euen of infidels also if they be due to the Minister by the law and custome of the Countrey neither is religion any more violated in so doing then when the rents of farmes are paid or receaued of husband-men our tenants that are heretiques As for the argument they drawe from the vaine ostentation of the contributors who because they could not be vnknowen contention might arise among them who should exceed the rest it is an argument none at all vnlesse by the same reason we will haue Christians to abstaine from good works to auoyd ostentation But no man is to be diswaded from bounteous beneficency least he should fal into the affectation of vaine-glory And that contention and emulation is good when one man striueth to excel another in wel-doing as for the hearts and minds of men let vs leaue them for God to iudge But their last argument is this that there is no commandement that Ministers of the Church should be maintained by the oblations of the people by the which it may be concluded that it is not necessary that the same maner of maintaining the Ministery should bee maintained alike in all places and at all times but that all things ought to be referred to good order that they may be done to edification I answere that albeit the Minister of the Church be not commanded to liue of the oblations of the people for hee may liue of his owne and for certaine causes spare the people for a time yet notwithstanding in the meane while the commaundement abideth by the which the people are bound to honour their Pastor and by the liberall participation of their goods to testifie their gratefull godly deuotion towardes God and him Neither is the question so much for the Ministers maintenaunce as for the godly regards and grateful minds of the faithful towards God who is alwaies most honored or dishonored in his seruants For my part I knowe not as yet the customes of all nations and countreys Neither am I he that will prescribe to any man in this matter In the meane while I speake of those things which I haue learned by great vse and long experience and it greueth me that in many things of like nature wee abolish olde thinges and suborne worse True it is that parishes vnder the Pope had their priuileges their glebes their rents and their tithes by which their Pastors were wel maintained now because some abuses be crept in shall the whole vse of them be taken away Me thinks these are but cold reasons I haue now confuted with the which it were to be wondered that any man should bee caried away were it not that the hatred of Poperie did hurry men headlong into vaine contrarieties in such things as are or haue bene vsed among them Chap. XXXII Certaine reasons why Stipendaries are disprooued WHere as the Apostles rule commandeth vs that all things be done in good order and to edifiyng it will be a labour worth the paines to see whether that may better bee done by paying Ministers their stipends or rather by that auncient manner deliuered by the Apostles and receaued by the Fathers which giueth to Pastors their tythes and their offerings First I doe not thinke that wisedome is growen vp with vs that we should dispose of things better then our Fathers haue done Besides there is no man that desireth to be clear from the aduersaries cautels that ought at this day to make any innouation in the Church of Christ without the approued example of former ages But this is a nouel kind of honoring the Pastors of the Church not read of in the scriptures not knowen of vnto the Fathers nor euer heard of before these our daies the common brokers of all newes that the Church had their Stipendary Ministers Notwithstanding when I say that Stipends taken out of the Exchequer or other-wise collected doe blast the fruites of religion and depriue the people of the comforts thereof I would not so bee taken as if I thought it vnlawfull for the Magistrate to contribute out of the treasury to the Church But this I say that the Christian people ought notwithstanding continually to be deuoted vnto their Pastors in the bonds of a religious affinity and religiously to honour their Ministers with the testimonies of their gratefull memory the which when it is hindred by the one part it must needs be that charity should waxe very colde on both parts Saint Paule as wee haue sayde before gaue it in commaundement that he which is taught should communicate in all his goods with him that taught him from the which duty no stipēd ought
neede knowen to euery man and with what face can they of the familye goe doore by doore to gather things necessary verily their credite is indangered and theyr modesty But did you euer heare that the Ministers of the Church were brought to such an exigent as that of force they must gather their relief from dore to dore among their own people In deed there was such a custome in the time of Popery for mendicant Friers brought vp among them of a certayne superstition without any precedent president of the auncient Fathers But is there no other way to gather christian oblations but so and are they not eyther brought by the faithfull of theyr own voluntary or collected by some of the honest neighbours appointed for that purpose But of the other side by the certaine stipends which depend vppon the vncertaine pleasures of the Magistrates it is very badly prouided both for the necessity of the family and the modesty of the Ministers where either so small wages are allowed or their allowance so slenderly paied that the poor Pastors pittifull complayning for meere pouerty are constrained to giue ouer theyr trade and to forsake theyr Ministery Where the people are perswaded that they owe nothing to theyr Pastors and that it pertaineth to the Magistrate onely to prouide for the Ministers alâcke poore Pastors I am ashamed to report how both people and Magistrate beare themselues towards them But furthermore they dispute that in these stipends the Ministers can vse no deceite when it shal be sufficiently knowen how much they receiue when as otherwise a couetous Minister may pretend that eyther he receiueth lesse then he receiueth or not so much as sufficeth To this I aunswere that the oblations of the which we argue the case are not so secretly giuen or so closely kept but that it is commonly knowen how much they are and what the Minister receiueth But to what purpose is al this or to what end should al know how much the minister either receyueth or hath or who can prescribe a meane for that matter The Pastor layeth out as well as he taketh in must that also needs be knowen That which they adde of the coueteous Minister who may pretend that he receyueth lesse then either he receiueth or may well suffice it proceedeth of the same errour I haue knowen many Ministers in my time among whome there is not one whose wealth is not commonly knowen and what he ordinarily receyueth euery year so that there is no other means for them to lie here then there vnlesse you would lie for them But to what end are these reasons or how thinke they did the ancient Bishops of the Church liue Ignatius Ireneus Cornelius Cyprian and such like whose memorial wil continue with their glory to the worlds end A man shall neuer preuent the cauels of malitious men whether the Ministers liue of tithes and oblations or whether they stick to theyr certain allowance both here and there whatsoeuer is receiued wil be thought too much of some A Flemishe florence or gilderne is 2. shillings sterling I haue often times heard the Boores groyn and grunt to this effect that a stipend of two three or foure hundred Flemish Florences was great wages I sayd they can keepe my family for lesse Neyther do I receyue so much of all the gayne that I can make thus vnequally comparing not them selues with them selues but theyr styes with the state of they Ministers As if ther were no difference betweene a priuate man of the basest rout a publique Minister at the hie Altar And yet two or three years wages wil scarce serue to buy him books bsides of duty he ought to be boūtifull intertainable to the needy But now they say that by this means it is well prouided for the subiects who for the most part are but poore liue hardly in theyr Villages For how should they maintain the Minister who are themselues to be maintained Here in deed is the error of our age to be noted which in some places giue to the ciuill Magistrate the goods of the Church and permitteth them to gather vp tithes which are due to the Minister But to the purpose In villages the poor which haue nothing giue nothing if it be litle which a man hath he giueth litle euery man payeth his tith according to his wealth and according to the greatnes of his increase whether the commodity lie in tillage or in herbage And in deed the poore could no waies better be prouided for that they should not relieue theyr Pastors themselues being to be relieued then thus for by this means the Pastors are mainetayned by them which haue much they maintaine them which haue nothing The increase of theyr fields for the most part keepe a certain scantline euermore the number of them is greater which receiue then of the poore which want the same But these their reasons are too blame that both poore Pastors are so badly prouided for as they are for by thē the goods which are consecrate to holy vses are betraied to prophane wretches of whom themselues must now goe beg their allowance and be glad to serue and flatter in most slauish sort for their iust reward But yet again they argue that men will seek occasion to discharge their Minister when they shal see that they must giue often shal hear their vices inueighed against so wil fain causes with greater autority contentiō to thrust him out But who seeth not here how weakely this argument is grounded euen vppon an euil grounded gouernment of the Church who leaue in the peoples hands to place displace their Pastors at their pleasure yet if it so falleth out at any time as it falleth out so often as they fall out the christian Magistrat must be but an idle auditor in this iniury haue no autority at all to compell the wicked in this case to theyr duty But let Cornelius Bishop of Rome an holy Martyr aunswere this who being destitute of the ayde of the christian Magistrate and being infested by Nouatus his faction so far forth as that he was not far from giuing vp his hold and yeelding to the wicked yet did he euer want of those his ordinary oblations euen in the midst of so much euil will and so many dissentions so that he could not maintain therewith his 500. and 50. clerkes and a 1000. 500. poore people Neither were any of the Fathers which liued of oblations euer fearefull of the wicked but were euer fearfull to the wicked and were feared Of no greater force is that which they say that euil men being reprehended wil giue nothing but will rather suffer their Minister to famish for hunger As if that were not rather to be feared least it should be done as we haue experience of the doing by the Magistrat which payeth them wages when so euer a good Minister shal displease a bad