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A90976 The sun out-shining the moon, or, Righteousness excelling rottennness in answer to a lying scandalous paper, published by John Moone, entituled, The true light hath made manifest darknesse, &c. : but it is darkness put forth for light, as it will appear by that which followeth / and is published by John Price. Price, John, Welsh clergyman.; Bownd, William. Brief discovery of the the erroneous tenets of those who are distinguished from other men by the name of Quakers. 1658 (1658) Wing P3353; ESTC R43721 30,935 58

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in the steps of the false Prophets which knowest not the first principle of pure Religion For we say that the first principle of pure Religion was before transgression was and transgression was before repentance And again thou sayest that the light shineth but in some men herein thou art found a liar and wrestest the Scriptures who deniest the Testimony of Iohn who was a true Minister of the Lord who said It lighteth every man and thou sayest some men and not all And whereas thou sayest there is no true Church out of God but are by Faith in God neither doth that Church persecute This is truth and this we own to be ours and we find thee to be in the same Generation who said they were of the seed of Abraham and that God was their Father and Christ Jesus said Ye are your Father the Devil who was a liar from the beginning And there are all them who knows not the first principle of pure Religion strangers to the Covenant of grace and truth and this Covenant we witnesse to be our light and life and by this light we see thee and all the false Prophets to be out of the light walking in the dark world and here thy fellowship is with them who goeth for the wages of unrighteousnesse as thy Brother and Companion John Price who receives moneyes when people are married and when Children are born And now let that of God in all consciences judge whether this be in the Church which is in God or in the world where covetousnesse is And whether you be the Deceivers and Seducers who practise and uphold these things or us who are sent of the Lord to speak against these evil practises And herein we exhort you to that of God in your conscience which witnesse for us against all these evil practise JOHN MOON JOHN DAVIES READER Before I set down the answer to this foregoing reply as they call it which Hugh Evans and I have sent to John Moone and John David I shall give you a Relation of what Hugh Evans was Seeing that Iohn Moone hath the face as to give Hugh Evans the Title of a blind Priest therefore Ishall enforme you of what Hugh Evans was He in his youthful time was bound Apprentise in the City of Worcester to a Clothier and there he learned the Trade and wrought there many years Then in the time of the Wars he went from Worcester to Coventry Worcester being then a Garison for the King and there joyned himself to the Church and wrought there for certain years and being zealous in the Gospel and his love much kindled towards God and man and hearing that his native Countrey was destitute of that means of Salvation that is to say the Preaching of the word and the Ministration of the Ordinance of Jesus Christ he was much moved with love to the truth and to his native Countrey yet not judging himself fully furnished or fitted for that work and Ministry he by the consent of the Church went to a faithful Servant of the Lord Ieremiah Ives and informed him and the society there with him of the necessity of the Preaching of the Word in Wales then were they sent and came to Wales and performed the work which they were sent to do Hugh Evans having no other mind but to return then the Brethren besought him to abide with them the which he accordingly did for the space often years and upwards until the Lord saw good to deprive them of him in which time his Friends can give a large Testimony of his Zeal and labour in the Gospel yet this lying man Iohn Moone hath the face as to say that he was a blind Priest in Wales Here followeth another Paper of Iohn Moone which is like the rest and my reply to it but you shall find more by a Friend of mine who hath been accused for the same things by the forenamed Iohn Moone I went from David VVilliam unto Hugh Evans and John Price to give the said Hugh a Paper The said Hugh and Iohn fell a discoursing with me in which discourse the said Iohn Price said that the Devil was Eternal And he asked me whether I would deny it And I said I deny that the Devil is Eternal and bade him prove it by Scripture but he did not neither would he acknowledge that he told a lie but goeth on in sin beguiling unstable people and herein thou Iohn Price art found one of them who said that God was their Father but they were of their Father the Devil and thou callest the Devil Eternal and herein I see thee forsaking the right way art gone astray following the lust of the flesh living out of the fear of God speaking high swelling words of vanity but is found out among the Dogs and Sorcerers and unbelievers and they who loves to make a lie and before the everlasting fire of the Lord is kindled for the Devil and his Angels And herein I Iohn Moone do bear witnesse that the Lord God of Heaven and Earth is Eternal and what ever is Eternal is one with the Lord God and endures for ever And herein I utterly deny that the Devil is one with God whom thou sayest is Eternal and so let that of God in all consciences judge whether God and the Devil be both one for he that is Eternal is one with God and this is he who is our Salvation for evermore but he who calls the Devil Eternal knows not Salvation for there is no Salvation to be found in him but woe and misery which is the portion of unbelievers and herein we bear witnesse to the truth and against that which is untruth JOHN MOONE Here followeth my answer to John Moones fore-going Paper A word to thee Iohn Moone in answer to thy scandalous Paper which I have received from thee upon the 21th day of the first moneth in the year 1656. in which I find more of thy vainjangling and false accusing as thy manner is seeking to make me and all Saints odious But blessed are ye when men revile you and speak all manner of evil of you wrongfully as thou and thy fellowes do unto me and others who walk in the fear of the Lord and do continue by his goodnesse in his grace to which he hath called and chosen us and established our souls and spirits therein yet you that is to say Iohn Moone and Iohn Davies do call us Dogs the seed of the Serpent and Sons of the Devil and Children of darknesse and presumptuously in the name of the Lord excommunicate us if your cursing could from the love and grace of our God in pronouncing all the wrath and plagues of the Eternal God to fall upon us and saying to your own hurt that you are sent of God so to do I shall not bring against thee any railing accusations but the Lord rebuke thee and touching what hath been said by me concerning the immortality of the Devil It was to
is false for answer was made in plainnesse to the satisfaction of many though thou could not receive it being full and rich in thy own conceit and so was sent empty away and after the truth was cleared to the satisfaction of many people the Messenger of the Lord passed away and then hearing thee Bownd incensing the people with lies he came up again and then was something spoken concerning the Soul but not before he passed down as thou in thy Paper falsely asserts and the Soul was said to be pure which thou Bownd who knows not the Soul denied But the truth shall stand for ever and over the deceipt Reign and that in the conscience shall answer it and witnesse to it And thou Bownd saith in thy lying Paper That before he to wit Alexander Parker went down thou stated thy question Dost thou own a humane Soul which is to be redeemed besides c. This is false and a lie thou didst not mention any such question before he spake of the Souls redemption and so thou liar art for the lake Several other things there is in thy Paper which truely are not worth the rapping up nor mentioning by a sober Christian which stuffe I do return back into the old Bottle again from whence it came and the same Testimony that I gave of the Soul I give the same still that the Soul is pretious and pure witnessed though not comprehended by the dark wisedom of m●n for it was then declared that he spake what he knew and not by hear-say but what he witnessed by the living Power of God which was made manifest whereby he came to know the Soul and its Redemption and purity and none else knows it but those who witnesse Redemption and this Testimony shall stand for ever against thee Bownd and against all the Opposers of the truth my Soul is pure and pretious and they who live in sin are Enemies to their own Souls for the fleshly lusts warreth against the Soul the Enemy may destroy the body but cannot kill the Soul Be thou therefore awarned and repent of thy lies Bownd and speak not evil of that which thou knowest not whiles it is called to day harden not thy heart thou knowest not how soon thy soul may be required of thee This is in love to thy Soul which I love but for ever I shall stand a witnesse against thy lies and that which warres against the Soul And this Testimony without daubing or equivocating as thou falsly accuses of I shall really with my blood against thee Bownd and all thy partakers who are warring against the truth and all dear Friends who are convinced of the living and Eternal truth and have seen the deceipt and the emptinesse of all Professions formal that stands in the will of man where there is no satisfaction to the hungry thirsty Soul but as Swine feeding upon the Hurkes in that which discovered all these things do you abide and keep your habitations and dwellings in the measure of God waiting for his Power to purifie and cleanse and purge out the old learn that the Soul which is living you may witnesse to praise the living for the dead praise not God it is the living the living that praises God to whom all praise belongs for evermore Let this be truely Copied over and sent abroad and keep a true Copy of it From him who loves the Souls of all people but hates their sin Whose name in the Flesh is ALEXANDER PARKER But hath a new name written in the Book of life which none can read but he that hath it HEre I shall desire the understanding Reader for to take notice of the foregoing discourse and also of Parkers reply how he falls to contend and wrangle about the time and place but answereth not one word to the matter then in hand viz. as before he went down and after he came up or where he stood when he spake the words This was not material with me Although I had truely and rightly laid down the Passages of it as I could instance many that were witnesses of the same but I shall forbear because in so doing I should seem to be so frivolous as he himself Hath not this man manifested his own folly in putting Pen to Paper and writing so many Lines and sending them many miles and yet answereth not one word unto the thing I charged him with And whether the manner of it or the matter of it was the more worthy of being mentioned or replied unto I shall leave the impartial Reader to judge But onely I shall here demand of Parker this one thing yet once agains Whose Soul was that which he endeavoured to prove to be pure by that Scripture Gen. 2.7 And if it was his own Soul as he afterwards did say Whether he had forgotten that he came out of the loines of his old Father Adam But as the Tree is known by its Fruit so is the stumpe known by the Branches but in its due place I shall follow these Branches unto the stumpe and so discover the very rottennesse of its Rootes THe greatest cause of my Relating of this Discourse and bringing these few Lines into such a publicke view is because John Moone in his lying Book entituled The true Light hath made manifest darknesse hath cast false aspersions and lying accusations upon the Saints in Wales beginning with Hugh Evans who is now ceased from his labours I being one that was very well acquainted with his Doctrine life and conversation and the certainty I have of those sweet Divine Spiritual and Eternal enjoyments that his Soul hath had and hath and shall enjoy to Eternity out of the mortal body doth remove much grief and sadnesse from my Spirit in consideration of his absence in the body I also having a discovery of the lying and equivocating of John Moone and Alexander Parker and others that tread in their erronious steps therefore I am engaged to manifest some of it to the end that the tongues of publicke known liars may not easily passe their false aspersions and that truth and Justice may take place and that falshood and all false dealers may be found and taken in their own snares and wounded with their own Weapons Although I acknowledge my self the weakest amongst many yet seeing the uncircumcised rejoyce and Goliah standing vapouring in the field viz. John Moone with his lying Book desying Israel I am emboldened to presse into the Battail for who is this uncircumcised Philistine that he should defie the Armies of the living God I being both an eye and an ear-witnesse unto that Discourse between John Price and John Moone where John Moone falsly in his Book accuseth John Price in saying that he said There was three wayes This is false and therefore this is one cause Why I publish John Moone for a known lyer for the Discourse was grounded upon three distinct things viz. God Man and Devil Whereupon John Moone Denied one of