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A14408 Acts of the dispute and conference holden at Paris, in the moneths of Iuly and August. 1566. Betweene two doctors of Sorbon, and two ministers of the Reformed Church A most excellent tract, wherein the learned may take pleasure, and the ignorant reape knowledge. Translated out of French by Iohn Golburne, and diuided according to the daies.; Actes de la dispute & conference tenue à Paris. English. Golburne, John.; Vigor, Simon, d. 1575.; Sainctes, Claude de, 1525-1591.; Du Rosier, Hugues Sureau.; L'Espine, Jean de, ca. 1506-1597. 1602 (1602) STC 24727; ESTC S119134 189,279 272

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Gods Almightinesse came after to maintaine second that which he had of the promise One may see by these examples what daunger there is to depart and draw backe although neuer so litle from the word of God by which we are guided to the knowledge of his will And by the knowledge of his will conducted to the consideration and iudgement which we ought to make and haue of his Almightinesse For want whereof the Doctors are fallen into errors and raylings which they propose to the Ministers by their writing and conclusion of their resolution That is to say that the body of Iesus Christ may be in diuers places at one selfe-same instant which is against the faith we ought to haue and constantly retaine of the wisedome prouidence and euerlasting truth of our God and against that likewise which wee ought to haue and keepe of our Lords true humanitie And that which they first alledge of S. Ierome against Vigilantius nought serueth for the proofe and confirmation of their error Where no other thing he saith but that the soules of the Saints are not inclosed in a certaine prison as dreamed Vigilantius but do follow the Lambe whithersoeuer he goeth Nor that which they alledge of Saint Augustine in the booke which he made of the pure care of the dead For in that booke hee himselfe confesseth that he is incertaine of that which the Doctors doo propose and are assured And nomore doo the three authorities they alledge of Saint Iohn Chrisostome Saint Ambrose and Saint Augustine whose sentences ought to be taken and vnder stood of the Sacrament and not of the thing signified by the Sacrament As in the next conference the Ministers well hope to shew The Ministers do much maruel that the Doctors so draw backe and will not but vnwillingly enter into conference for defence of their Masse and to gainsay the Supper celebrated in the reformed Churches For seeing they hold it for the principall foundation of theyr Religion and propose the same for a meane of saluation to the whole world That they be not seene seducers nor ouer credulous to beleeue or teach an incertaine and vnassured thing they should alwayes be prouided and furnished with reasons to the end they might approue and readily defend that which they beleeue and say and might conuince them also that would deny the same But in this it appeareth to proceed of of an euill conscience which being timerous and fearefull flyeth alwaies the combat and the light It is long time since the Ministers haue importuned them to enter into the deciding and conference of these two points and to bring them thervnto they haue proposed vnto them that it was the end for which the conference was appointed which Madame de Buillon in whose fauour it was made once or twise hath publikely required and that they also had often protested that they were not for other ende assembled with the Doctors then to satisfie therein the said Lady of Buillon and not to be examined by them as they do falsly pretend For the Ministers haue no desire to be examined of such Doctors being Priests Ioyned that to be taught in the points of religion and to know the truth they would not choose such Maisters nor repaire vnto them and frequent theyr schooles for that purpose And yet notwithstanding all the foresayd remonstrances often made and repeated by the Ministers the Doctors haue alwayes vntill now deferred to conferre of the foresaid points awayting as it is likely that some occasion should be offered to breake off and determine the sayd conference before they had begunne to speak thereof Albeit had they any zeale to th● honour of God and to the edification of his Church they should by all meanes haue procured that the sayd two points should haue beene fully cleared and resolued be it that they would confirme and strengthen them of their part or withdraw as they pretend those of our side from their errors For it is not much needfull hereafter to dispute of the Saints of Purgatory Pilgrigrimages and other like points In regard of which the most part of the world is at this day cleared By meanes whereof as well the Doctors as the Ministers ought chiefly to insist vpon these two points and to endeuour with them to make them cleare and to be vnderstood of each one and not to vse Sophistries and cauils to make them obscure and retaine thereby the simple in their ignorance as the Doctors endeuour to do Who hauing left of set purpose the Theses Articles proposed to them by the Ministers with order good methode in their last answeres do confusedly propose certaine questions culled out of their schoole diuinitie euer more and more to fold vp this matter And in so doing they withstand as euer hitherto they haue done what so and so often they haue protested to wit that they would examine the confession of the reformed Churches whereof notwithstanding they haue not handled one only point in all the conference Wherein they haue shewed and yet plainly do shewe the distrust they haue to be able to withstand so cleare and apparant trueth as that which is proposed in the saide confession Answeres to the Preface of the Doctors Questions THe Doctors before they propose their Questions in their Preface do call the Supper celebrated in the refor-Churches a prophane and polluted banquet And in so saying they neither shame nor feare first to blaspheme Iesus Christ who instituted the same and is the authour therof and then to condemne the Apostles of Impietie which so haue celebrated and taught it together with all the auncient Churches which followed and obserued whiles it reremained in it puritie the forme and maner which the Euangelists and Apostles had taught and left by their writings But the Ministers would willingly demaund of the Lordes our Maisters that they particularly note vnto them wherein they can violate the institution ordinance of Iesus Christ and leaue his example and that of his Apostles in the celebration of the Supper For when they will celebrate the same they first assemble the whole Church together as Iesus Christ did his Apostles and Disciples where after their publike confession of sinnes and vnderstandingly made in the name of all they make a Sermon to the people wherein according to the grace and power which God hath giuen them they declare the causes and occasions the end the vse the points and effects of the holy Supper to lift vp the hearts of the people to the consideration of the incomprehensible loue which the Father hath shewed towards his Church when in fauour thereof and for the saluation of the same he hath not spared his owne sonne but exposed him to a cruell and cursed death to the end that each one calling to minde so great a grace and mercie be kindled and inflamed in the loue of God and tremble at the ingratitudes and rebellious offences and sinnes which he hath committed
against his Maiestie and that with the sorrow and displeasure he hath for the same he cast himselfe betweene the armes of his sonne stretched out vpon the Crosse to haue thereof a generall and full abolition And that euen so with such a faith and repentance hee be prepared to present himselfe worthily at the table of the Lord and to receiue the good things which are there administred The Sermon ended the Minister recyteth with an high and audible voyce and his face turned towards the people the words of the institution and ordinance of the Supper together with a briefe and short declaration of the same That done he denounceth to all those not fully instructed and Catechised that they depart and to all them which are excommunicated or attainted with some sinnes or scandalous crimes whereof they haue made no satisfaction to the Church that they abstaine therefrom and pollute not the table of the Lord. After that the Minister goeth to the table where hauing taken the bread and giuen thankes to God he breaketh it and giueth it to the people there assembled And also presently the Cup to all them that communicate which being ended he giueth thankes to God and dismisseth the people The Ministers following in all these things the example and rule which Iesus Christ hath giuen them cannot imagine wherevpon the Doctors haue grounded that their saying of the Supper calling it a prophane and polluted banquet And they cannot perceiue what they could or would reproue in all theyr action vnlesse peraduenture they will taxe them for not hauing Aulbes stoles fanets Crosses holy water banners Chisibles tunicles lights Incense belles singing in a straunge and vnknowne language Musicke and Organes holy napkins Aultars Clearkes to answere Et cum spiritu tuo nor words addressed to the bread and wine which haue no eares after the maner of Inchanters nor the Crosse signes nor any eleuation of the bread and wine to cause them to be adored nor other like aperies of mans inuentiō and drawne part from Iudaisme and part from Paganisme The obseruation of which things the Ministers would make great conscience of because they be but Idolatries and superstitions whereby the puritie integritie of Christian Religion is wholly wasted and corrupted Answeres to the questions proposed by the Doctors touching the Supper FOr answere to the first question the Ministers say that the Sacrament in perfection considered consisteth in three things One whereof is the Element which Ireneus calleth a thing earthy the other the thing signified called by the same author a thing heauenly And the third is the word by which the earthy thing is deputed to signifie the heauenly and assureth them of the exhibition thereof that with faith do present themselues to receiue it For answere to the second question the Ministers say that the ordinance of God contained in his word and declared by his Minister according to his commandement is this word word necessary with the E●ment to constitute the Sacrament and not the onely lowe and secret pronunciation of certaine vnkowne words addressed to the elements nor any vertue which is hidden in the same For answere to the third question the Ministers say that by the word aforesaid the signes bee chaunged not as touching the nature or as touching the substance but as touching the vse onely and that only during the action whervnto they serue For answere to the fourth question the Ministers say that the bread and wine which before the action of the Supper were common are consecrated in the Supper that is to say deputed by the said word and ordinance of God declared by the Ministers to a holy and sacred vse which is to represent and exhibit the things by them signified The answere to the fourth question sufficeth for the fift For answere to the sixt question the Ministers say that the faithfull receiue not onely in the Supper the gifts and graces of Iesus Christ as his tighteousnesse life and the other fruites of his sacrifice but that they also receiue and possesse himselfe and are made one with him no lesse truly and straightly then the members are conioyned to the head And they say moreouer that this coniunction is the spring and meane of all the benefites which flowe from the grace of God by him into vs but they adde that this reception must bee wholly attributed to the free operation of the holy Ghost which maketh vs fit and capable to knowe our Lord Iesus Christ with all his vertues and properties and in knowing him to trust in him and in reposing our trust in him to possesse and wholly enioy him For answere to the seuenth question the Ministers say that they reiect and reproue the word Concomitance and more also the thing thereby signified for as much as that hath beene the cause for which the common people hath bene depriued and excluded from one of the essentiall parts of the Sacrament namely from the participation of the Cuppe And they say that it is an attempt against the diuine Maiestie to seperate what the sonne of God hath ioyned together and to deny to some of his members that which he hath willed and commaunded to be common to all Ioyned that the reason of the Sacrament requireth it which was instituted for our spirituall nourishment The which as doth the corporall consisteth in drinke meate To the ende then that there be some correspondency betweene them two it behoueth that as we are fed with the flesh of Iesus Christ crucified So be we also watered with his blood shead for the remission of sinnes To be short seeing that the Supper was chiefly instituted to shewe foorth the Lords death and that in his death his blood was seperated from his bodie Meete it is that the bread and wine be there administred to represent the one and the other and more clearly to propose vnto vs all the mistery of the death of Iesus Christ For answere to the eight question the Ministers do acknowledge no other cause nor meane of remission of sinnes then the grace of God the blood of Iesus Christ and faith whereby the effect of Gods grace and the fruit of the death of Iesus Christ are applied vnto vs. For answere to the ninth question the Ministers do say that the faithfull comming to the Supper do not come thither to receiue there a new Iesus Christ with whom they had not bene formerly conioyned nor a new righteousnes which had not bene communicated vnto them And they adde that if some one did present himselfe there without faith for want whereof he should not be vnited incorporated and engraffed into Iesus Christ to bee partaker of his righteousnes life and all other his gifts and blessings that the holy Supper in that case should be as vnprofitable to him as is meate vnptofitable to a dead man But if liuing by the meanes aforesayd namely the grace of God the blood of Iesus Christ and faith he present himselfe