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A18981 The true ancient Roman Catholike Being an apology or counterproofe against Doctor Bishops Reproofe of the defence of the Reformed Catholike. The first part. Wherein the name of Catholikes is vindicated from popish abuse, and thence is shewed that the faith of the Church of Rome as now it is, is not the Catholike faith ... By Robert Abbot ... Abbot, Robert, 1560-1618. 1611 (1611) STC 54; ESTC S100548 363,303 424

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nihilo inquit saluos faciet illos haud dubiū qum iustos qui nō proprio merito sed Dei saluantur clementia He will saue them for nothing as who are saued not by their owne merit saith he but by the mercy of God For y Gregor Moral l. 8. c 9. Iusti perituros se absque ambiguitate praesciunt si remota pietate iudicētur quia hoc ipsum quoque quòd iustè videmur viu●re culpa est si vitā nostram cum iudicat hanc apud se diuina miserecordia non excusat iust men saith Gregory know before-hand that they shall perish without doubt if God set mercy aside in the iudging of them because euen that which seemeth our iust life is but sinne if Gods mercy when he iudgeth it doe not excuse the same Hitherto then it appeareth that I want no armour or weapons to fight against him yea who seeth not him rather to be a beggarly companion who taketh vpon him to contradict me vpon no other but only his owne word As for pouerty of spirit he sheweth his prophanenesse in iesting at it because Christ hath pronounced a blessing to it z Mat. 5. ● Blessed are the poore in spirit for theirs is the Kingdome of heauen But now before he giue ouer that text he will finde a weapon there to fight against me In the next verse saith he it is plainly shewed that God did grieuously punish all them who liued wickedly notwithstanding they held the right faith The wordes of that verse are these a Vers 18 The wrath of God is reueiled from heauen against all vngodlinesse and vnrighteousnesse of men which with-hold the truth in vnrighteousnesse Where it being manifest that the Apostles wordes haue reference to Gentiles and Heathens who had no knowledge of God but only by natures light the Apostle accusing them for suppressing and drowning euen that which they vnderstood or might vnderstand by the creation of the world I might question with what discretion it is that M. Bishop attributeth vnto them the holding of the right faith But not to trouble my selfe or the Reader further then is needfull I let that passe and looke to his inferences that he maketh out of those wordes Whence it followeth first saith he that men may haue a true faith without good workes Which though it haue no manner of sequele from the Apostles wordes there being nothing as I haue said which importeth the hauing or holding of true faith yet with great opportunity he mentioneth because he giueth me occasion to shew that though the righteousnesse of God be only from faith to faith yet that faith wherein this righteousnesse consisteth neuer is nor can be without due correspondence of good workes and godly life And to this belongeth that which the Apostle saith that b Rom. 3. 31. by faith we establish the law because we doe not by faith establish the law if we preach such a faith as may stand with the contempt of the law and wilfull neglect of the commandements of God Surely if faith may be without charity and it be by an after-supply of charity that wee haue the will to keepe Gods commandements then should not the Apostle say that by faith but rather by charity we establish the law But because without saith there is no charity and charity is the necessary sequele of the regeneration of faith therefore the Apostle rightly saith that by faith we establish the law as whereby we c Gal. 3. ●4 Ezech. 36. 26. 27 receiue the promise of the spirit of God the effect and d Gal. 5. 22. fruit whereof is charity whereby e Rom. 7. 22. we delight in the law of God as touching the inward man and are grieued at the remainder of carnall concupiscence whereby we are hindered that f Gal. 5. 17. we cannot doe the things that we would The faith which the Gospell teacheth is that and no other wherof we reade that g Acts 15. 9. by faith God purifieth our hearts which is called h Gal. 5. 6. faith working by loue of which St. Iohn saith i 1. John 3. 3. Euery one that hath this hope purgeth himselfe euen as he is pure k Ephes 3. 17. by which Saint Paul againe saith that Christ dwelleth in our hearts and l Rom. 8. 10. if Christ be in you saith he the body is dead as touching sinne but the spirit is life for righteousnesse sake As for that faith which is without workes it is by equiuocation only called faith as the picture of a man is called a man this being yeelded to custome of speech and to the conceipt of men who giue names oftentimes for semblance and shew where there wanteth the substance and truth of them To which purpose the wordes of Leo Bishop of Rome are very remarkeable m Leode Quadrages serm 7. Charitas robur fidei fides fortitudo est charitatis tunc verum nomen verus est fructus ambarum cum insolubilis man●t vtriusque cōnexio Vbi enim non simul fuerint simu desunt quia in●icem sibi inuam●n lumen sunt donec desiderium credulitatis impleat remuneratio visionis incommutabilitèr videatur ametur quod nunc sine side non dilig●tur sine dilectione non creditur Charity is the strength of faith and faith is the strength of charity and then is there the true name and the true fruit of both when there abideth an ins●parable coniunction of them for where they are not both together they are both wanting because they are the helpe and light each of other vntill reward of seeing fulfill the desire of beleeuing and that be vnchangeably beholden and loued which now is neither loued without faith nor beleeued without loue Where we see a difference signified by Leo betwixt the true name of faith and that which is vulgarly termed faith so that though sometimes we speake of faith without workes applying the name of faith to the outward profession of faith as he himselfe also doth yet n Idem de Collect. eleemos serm 4. Multis quibus auserre non potuit fidem sustulit charitatem agro cordis ipsorum auaritiae r●dicibus occupato spoliauit fructu operum quos non priuauit cons●ssione labiorum the true name of faith is not appliable where there is not charity ioyned with it neither can there be true beleefe where there is no loue Hereto accordeth Gregor in Ezech. hom 22. Fidem Spem Charitatem ●tque operationē quamdiu in hac vita viuimus aequales sibi esse apud nosmetipsos inuenimus c. Nam nunc quantum credimus tantum amamus quātum amamus tantum de spe praesumimus De fide quoque operatione Ioannes Apostolus fa●etur dicens Qui se dicit nosse Deum c. Notitia quippe Dei ad fide pertinet mandatorum custodia ad operationem Cùm ergò
what is hee the nearer for prayer for the dead seeing they tell vs that Purgatory is p Rhem. Testam Anno● Mat. 5. 26. in marg the prison spoken of by our Sauiour Christ from which there is no comming forth vntill thou haue paied the vttermost farthing If there be no comming forth vntill the vtmost farthing be paied why doe we vainly trouble our selues in praying for them When they haue paied all then they shall come forth but till that be done there is no release This were a lamentable hearing at Rome yea and throughout the whole Popish clergie for by this meanes there shall be no vse of all their Offices and Obsequies and Pardons for the dead and thereby what a large collop shall be cut from them They are the cause of it themselues they tell vs that Purgatory is the prison whence there is no redemption till thou not till another for thee but till thou haue paied the vttermost farthing But yet let them alone grant them Purgatory and they will shift they will make their aduantage good enough The worst is that in the words of St. Paul there is not strength enough to draw it in The old Father Origen in an approued worke of his hath laid a shrewd blocke in M. Bishops way who citing the wordes of the Apostle q 1. Cor 3. 12. If any man build on this foundation gold siluer precious stones timber hay stubble euery mans worke shall be made manifest for the day shall declare it because it shall be reueiled by fire and the fire shall trie euery mans worke of what sort it is saith hereupon r Origen cōt Cel● lib. 4. Si quis docore potest corporalitèr intelligendum esse malos superstrucre lignum foen●● stipulam apparebit etiam materialem ignem intelligendum sensibilem quòd si euidentèr figurata est locutio dum mali hominis opera significantur lignorū foeni stipularūque nomine qui fit vt nō statim succurrat quomodo ignis accipiēdus sit qui contumat ●igna huiusmodi If any man can shew that it is corporally to be vnderstood that euill men doe build vpon the foundation wood and hay and stubble it shall appeare that we are also to vnderstand a materiall and sensible fire but if it be euidently and apparantly a figuratiue speech in that the workes of euill men are signified by the name of wood and hay and stubble how is it that we conceiue not how the fire is to be vnderstood that consumeth these things Indeede it is in common sense very vnprobable that the wordes of foundation building gold siluer pearles wood hay stubble should all be construed as figuratiuely spoken and the name of fire only should be vnderstood properly of a materiall Purgatory fire specially when as the Apostle himselfe forceth it to another vnderstanding by saying Yet so as it were by fire for what is that but as to say not by fire indeede but in such sort as may fitly be resembled and set forth by fire Yet it is true that some haue expounded those wordes of a temporary purging fire as Austin Ambrose and Gregory whom M. Bishop citeth for as for Hierome he wrongeth him who only mentioneth ſ Hieron adu louin lib. 2. Ipse saluabitur non tamen absque probatione ignis triall of fire according to the letter of the text but saith nothing to expound what that fire is But as they expound it of Purgatory fire so some other there be that expound it of hell fire as namely Chrysostome Theophylact and Photius in Oecumenius who where it is said Hee himselfe shall be saued doe vnderstand it that he shall be reserued and not consumed to nothing and so take the meaning to bee t Oecumen ex Phot. in 1. Cor. 3. Ad hoc manet seruatur vt per ignem puniatur in seculum Sic Chrysost Theophylact ibid. that he abideth and is kept to be punished by fire for euer Now it may fall out shrewdly on M. Bishops part if where hee looketh for Purgatory hee finde Hell but hereby it certainly appeareth that there was no tradition of the Church to draw Purgatory out of those wordes of the Apostle Which notwithstanding shall much better appeare if wee shall further consider the variablenesse and vncertainty of writers in expounding that place euen of them who haue expounded and applied it in that sort First Saint Austin though in a Sermon to the people he yeelded to their conceipt then growing of Purgatory fire and were content thereto to make application of the Apostles wordes here in question yet in diuers other places where with due meditation hee pondereth and waigheth the same wordes hee still maketh other construction of them As namely when Dulcitius propounding certaine questions to him he by occasion falleth vpon the handling of these wordes hee deriueth thither what he hath spoken in two other places concerning the same now approuing it the third time that u August de 8. Quaest Dulcit q. 1. ex lib de Fide Operibus c. 16. Si circa diuitias suas carnali qu●dam teneretur affec tu c. propter carnale vt dixi quem in eis habebat affectum quo talibus bonis fine dolore carere non posset ●dificaret super fundamentum lignum foenum s●●pulam c. Quoniam affectu dilecta carnali non sine dolore amittuntur c. in corum amissione passi detriment● per ignem quendam dolori● perueniunt ad salutem by hay and wood and stubble the Apostle meant the too much carnall desire and loue of temporall things which is often found in the faithfull though not in so high degree but that when they come to triall they are content rather to forsake all then to forsake Christ These he saith are saued for the foundations sake which is Christ whom they so preferre before all but x Ibid. ex Enchirid ad Laurent c. 68. Est quidem ignis tentatio tribulationis c. Isle ignis in hac interim vita facit quod Apostolus dixit c. sal●us est quidem sic tamen quasi per ignem quia vrit eum rerum dolor quas dilexcrat amissarum yet so as by fire whilest they are vexed with the griefe and sorrow of the losse of those things which they haue too much loued For fire he saith is the temptation of tribulation and this fire in this life doth that which the Apostle saith In the very like sort doth he againe in another place expound it y Idem de ciuitat Dei lib. 21. cap. 26. Sic quasi per ignem quod enim sine illiciente amore non habuit sine vrente dolore non perdet Yet so as by fire because what he hath not had without entising loue he will not loose without vexing griefe And that it may appeare that he afterwards did not like that exposition which M. Bishop citeth he vpon
another Psalme handling the wordes at large expoundeth them as in al these places he hath done z Idem in Psal 80. Qui aedificat amorem terrenorum super fundamentum regni coelorum c. ardebit amor rer●m temporalium ipse saluus erit per idoneum fundamentum ●t paulo ante Grau●tèr conturb●ntur foenum stipula ligna ardent Si tristis perdis saluus eris tanquam per ignem He that buildeth the loue of temporall things vpon the foundation of the Kingdome of heauen that is vpon Christ his loue of temporall things shall burne namely by sorrow and griefe in the losse of them but he himselfe shall be saued by the right foundation Thus very constantly doth he vnderstand the fire spoken of by the Apostle of the griefe and tribulation that God layeth vpon the faithfull in bereauing them of those earthly goods which they haue ouer-carnally affected and desired Now in all these places it is to be noted that Saint Austin was so farre from expounding that text of the Apostle concerning Purgatory as that in euery of the former he hath signified expresly that hee doubted thereof and in the last of all denyeth it expresly In the first place hee saith a De ●ide Oper. c. 16. Si●● in ha● v●●a tantum homines ista patiuntur siue etiam post hac vitam ●alia quae d● iudicia subsequn●●r non abhorret quantum arb●●ror à ratione veritatis iste intell●ctus b●●us ●●ntentiae Whether in this life only men suffer such things or whether after this life also some such iudgements f●llow the meaning which I haue giuen of this sentence as I suppose abhorreth not from the truth In the second place hee saith b Enchirid. ad Laurent c. 69. Tale aliquid 〈◊〉 pest hanc vitam ●eri incredibile n●a est vtrum ita sit quaeri potest aut inueniri ●ut latere n●nnullos fidel●s per ignem quendam p●rgatoriii quatò magis un●usue b●na pereuntia d●lexerunt tanto tard●●s citi●s●● saluari That s●me such thing there is also after this life it is not incredible and may be enquired of whether it be so or not and either be sound or remaine hidden that some faithfull by a kinde of Purga●ory fire by how much they haue either the more or the l●sse loued transitory goods are either the sooner or the more slowly saued The repeating of both these places to Dulcitius without any reuocation or alteration may serue in steede of a third testimony of his doubting of it And in the last place he saith againe c De ci● D●● lib. 21. cap. 26. Post istius cor●oris mortem c. si hoc 〈◊〉 ●t●ruall● 〈◊〉 tus defunctorum eiusmodi ignem dicunt●r perpeti c. s●●● ibi tantum s●u● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vt noa ibi sec●laria quam●●s à damnatione vemalia 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 inueniant non redarguo qui● forsi●an ver●m est After the death of this body if the soules of the dead in this meane time till the r●surrection be s●id to suffer some such kinde of fire and whether there only or both here and there or whether here they finde a fire of transitory tribulation burning their secular desires that they may not finde it there I reproue it not I say not against it because perhaps it is true Here we finde it is not incredible and it may be disputed whether it be so and perhaps it is so but vpon his best aduice hee could not finde in the Apostles wordes or in any other place of Scripture that certainely it is so Yea in the last place which is worthy to be noted propounding to answere some who by pretence of the Apostles wordes here in question hoped to be saued by a Purgatory fire he vseth these words d In Psal 80. 〈◊〉 per 〈◊〉 salaus e●o Nam quid est quod art Apostolus fundamentum aliud c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 das esse volo 〈◊〉 est enim non vobis dare securitatem malam Non dabo quod non 〈◊〉 t●meus terreo securos vos saccrem si securus ●i●rem ego Ignem aeternum tin ●● Non 〈◊〉 nisi ignem aeternum de quo ●lio loco Scriptura dicit c. Brethren I am very fearefull it is not good to giue you any euill security I will deliuer nothing but what I receiue in feare I terrifie you I would secure you if I could secure my selfe I feare eternall fire I receiue or learne no fire but that that is eternall of which the Scripture saith in another place Their fire shall neuer goe out and so hee goeth on to expound the place in such sort as I haue said Marke this well St. Austin will deliuer nothing but what he hath receiued and hee professeth to haue receiued no other fire but only eternall fire Therefore very definitely he saith elsewhere e Hypognost l. 5. Tertum lo●um penitus ignoramus un mò nec esse in Scripturis inuenimus Wee are vtterly ignorant of any third place yea and we finde in the Scriptures that there is none and therefore he diuideth all the soules of the dead either to perpetuall ioy or perpetuall torment as I haue shewed f Answere to Doctor Bishops Epistle sect 10. otherwhere As Austin so Gregory also though hee expound the place concerning Purgatory as M. Bishop citeth yet saith elsewhere that g Greg. Dial. 〈…〉 c. 39. Hoc de ●●●e tribulationis in hac nobis vita ad●nbito potest intelligi the same may be vnderstood of the fire of tribulation applyed vnto vs in this life and if it may be vnderstood of tribulation in this life then can it be no proofe for warrant of a Purgatory in the life to come Now it is true indeed that Gregory was superstitiously conceipted concerning Purgatory although allowing of it only h Ibid De quibusdam 〈◊〉 culpis de paruts minim●●que peceatis for very small and light offences but it is worth the while to note how sometimes the truth forcing it selfe vpon him hee crosseth himselfe in this behalfe and putteth that downe in one place which he buildeth in another For he writing vpon Iob he saith i Greg. Mor. l. 8. c. 8. Quem nequaquam modo miserecordia eripit sola post praesons seculum iustitia 〈◊〉 Hinc Salomo ait quia lignum ta quocunque loco ce●●derit c. qua ●um humani casus tempore fiue sanctus fi●e malignus spiritus egredientem amn●a claustra carnis acceperit in 〈◊〉 secum 〈◊〉 pern●●tat 〈◊〉 ater●is suppli●iis vltra ad remedium creptionis ascendat Whom mercy now deliuereth not him iustice only after this world imprisoneth Hereof Salomon saith that in whatsoeuer place the tree falleth whether towards the South or towards the North there it shall be because when at the time of a mans death either the good spirit or the euill spirit shall receiue
the soule going from the body he shall hold it with him for euer without any change that neither being exalted it can come downe to punishment nor being drowned in eternall punishments can thence forth rise to any remedy of saluation If after death there be no deliuerance if there be no change but as the Angell either good or badde receiueth the soule out of the body so it continueth for euer either exalted to ioy or drowned in punishment then there can be no Purgatory then there can be nothing but either heauen or hell where they that come shall abide for euer Hee citeth for this the same wordes of Salomon that we doe and of which Olympiodorus a writer of the same time saith k Olympiodor in Ecclesi as● cap. 11. In quocunque loco seu illustri seu tene 〈◊〉 depre●edatur ●omo cum moritur m●ode gradu atque ordine pori●●net in aeternum nam vel requiese●● in lumine foelicitatis aeterae cum iustis Christo Domino vel in tenebris cruciatur cum iniquis huius mundi princip● Diabolo In whatsoeuer place either lightsome or darke a man is taken when he dyeth in the same degree and order he abideth for euer for either he resteth in the light of eternall felicity with the iust and with Christ our Lord or else he is tormented in darkenesse with the wicked and with the Prince of this world the Diuell But Gregory againe writeth an Epistle to his friend Aregius a Bishop to comfort him concerning the death of some belonging to him wherin it is worthy to be obserued how consonantly he carrieth himselfe to the doctrine of the Scriptures Amongst other wordes wee reade these l Gregor lib. 7. indict 2. Epist 111. Indecens est de illis taedio afflictionis add●ci quos credendum est ad veram vitam moriendo perue nisse Habēt for sitan illi iustam longi doloris excusationem qui vitam alteram nesciunt qui de hoc seculo ad m●lius transiti● esse non confidunt nos autem qui nouimus qui hoc credimus docemus cōtristarinimium de ob●●ntibus no debemus ne quod apud alios tenet pietatis speciem hoc magis nobis in culpa sit Nam dissidet●c quodamod● genus est cotra hoc quod quisque pradicat torqueri moestitia dicente Apostolo Nolumus autem vos ignorare fratres c. Hac itaque ratione perspecta studendum nobis est vt sicut dix●mus de mort●●● non essl●gamur sed affectū viuentibus impendamus quibus pictas ad 〈◊〉 sit ad s●uct● 〈◊〉 It is vndecent for vs to giue our selues to long affliction of sorrow for them whom wee are to beleeue to haue come by death vnto the true life They haue haply iust excuse of long sorrow who know not any other life who doe not beleeue the passage from this world to be to a better world but wee who know who beleeue and teach this are not to be too heauy for the dead least that which with others carryeth a shew of piety be to vs rather a matter of blame For it is in a manner a kinde of distr●st to be tormented with heauinesse contrary to that which he himselfe doth teach Hereof he citeth the wordes of Saint Paul to the Thestalonians which I haue before set downe and then addeth This therefore seeing we know wee are to haue care as I haue said not to be afflicted for the dead but to bestow our affection vpon the liuing to whom our piety or denotion may be profitable and our loue may yeeld fruit Surely he leaueth no place for Purgatory that teacheth to beleeue that the faithfull in death doe attaine vnto true life and that their passage from this world is to a better neither doth he acknowledge any vse of Prayers of Masses and Trentals and other Offices and Obsequies for the dead who saith that our deuotion and loue yeeldeth no fruit or profit to them He would not haue bidden Aregius not to be afflicted for the dead but to bestow his affection vpon the liuing if hee had thought the dead to be in a Purgatory where they should and might be releeued by the deuotions of the liuing Thus he beleeued and taught where he taught aduisedly according to the Scriptures and thus wee beleeue accordingly and what hee casually taught otherwise wee reckon it for wood and straw and stubble which hee built vpon the true foundation which now the day-light of the Gospell hath reueiled and the fire of Gods word consumeth though hee himselfe by the faith of the said foundation hath attained peace And this wee hold to be the only true application of the Apostles wordes and most fitting to the processe of the text the Apostle making himselfe a builder by his preaching laying Christ for the foundation of his doctrine and therefore consequently vnderstanding gold siluer pearles wood hay stubble to be the rest of the doctrine that is preached concerning Christ either true signified by gold and siluer and pearles or false signified by wood and hay and stubble So did Tertullian of old vnderstand it m Tertul. cōt Marc. l. 5. Super quod prout quisque superstruxerit dignam scilicet vel indignam doctrinam opus ●ius per ignem probabitur merces ●i●s per ignem rependetur As euery man saith he buildeth vpon the foundation doctrine worthy or vnworthy his worke shall be tryed by fire his reward shall be repaied him by fire In the like sort doth Ambrose expound it n Ambros in 1. Cor. 3. Tria genera posuit praeclara in mundo in quibus bonam doctrinam significauit c. Tria alia genera posuit sedfriuola In his corrupta vana doctrina designata di n●scitur He setteth downe three kinds of things that are excellent in the world gold siluer pearles by which he signifieth good doctrine three other things he setteth downe which are but base wood hay stubble and by these corrupt and vaine doctrine is designed Now if by these things doctrine bee designed then the fire whereby triall must be made of these things must be vnderstood accordingly That cannot be of the Popish Purgatory fire for it cannot in this sense bee fitted to Purgatory fire which the Apostle saith Euery mans worke shall be made manifest for the day shall declare● because it shall bee reueiled by fire for it is not declared or manifested by Purgatory fire whether doctrine bee true or false sith it selfe is so obscure and darke as that no man knoweth where it is Is it made manifest to vs by Purgatory fire whether ours or the Popish doctrine bee the more true Nay but by the word of God this triall is made and thereby it appeareth what is truth and what is falshood what is right and what is wrong and the truth as the gold and siluer is approued and iustified thereby but errour and false doctrine as wood and