your saying And so not onely ye playnly reuile the Lordes anoynted the Quéenes most excellent maiestie but also hir highnesse brother and father whom so muche ye praysed before For neither of them did forgo it no not Quéene Mary hir selfe that dyd forgoe it did euer forgoe it so ye rayle at hir also Besides many other godly princes of this other realmes for the eccl. iurisdiction as ye call it whiche some of them did neuer some of them did not euer forgoe And therfore ye both reuile them and belye theÌ„ but chiefly the Quéenes highnesse and is not this neither a preparation to rebellion But M. Stap. muste néedes be let goe whether he list to range and therefore let him goe First he asketh vvho vvere they that set foorth deuises of their ovvne for the succession of the crovvne vvithout the Princes knovvledge Surely sayth he no Catholikes but the very Protestantes them selues Ye doill M. Stap. to make a generall conclusion of the Protestantes simply from the priuate dooinges of some Should a man say that the pedigrée that M. Christoferson set from Iohn of Gaunt for king Philips title to the Crowne of Englande prouing him to be euen nearer than Quéene Mary hir selfe was the dooing of all the Papistes No the Papistes mystiked and corrected it Howebeit when it was best corrected it tended to a farre worsse ende which ende was all their dooings and fetche to bring this Realme to perpetuall slauery and bondage of Aliens than dyd these mens facte in deuising for the succession which though it were not lawfull to be done vvithout the Princes knovvledge as ye say yet was their entent farre otherwise than to make a preparation to rebellion yea rather to stoppe all gappes as they thought the better from Popishe rebellion althoughe they medled further than became them to do But what excuseth this the Papistes disobedience thinke ye these faultes of the Protestantes be couerings large inoughe to hyde the Papistes wickednesse but to stretche them further he discourseth on the writinges of master Knox and master Goodman For we shall haue all layde in our dishe noughte shall be lefte behinde concealed that any Protestants vnaduisedly euer dyd or spake And it is good to sée our owne faâ—…ts and follies this profite of foes Plutarche teacheth vs to be one of the greatest commodities for that that our friendes would not tell vs our enimies will not layne but spâ—…e out all that they knowe to our shame good and badde false and true togither And therfore we had néede beware that professe the word of God how circumspectly we lead our liues least we giue occasion to the aduersarie and his ministers to slaunder the Gospell and that the vncircumcised Philistians rayle not of the God of Israell by reason of our defaults as héere this enimie dothe Howbeit his argument is all insufficient either to proue any disobedience in vs or to excuse the Papistes disobedience the argument is this M. Knox and M. Goodman wrote agaynst the raygne of women Ergo the Protestantes acknowledge not the Quéenes supremacie in all causes ecclesiasticall Such slender arguments he gleaneth togither agaynst vs séeking bye matters But what should he do else should he haue nought to furnishe his counterblast withall At last giuing ouer the pursuite of the Protestantes he returneth to the defence of his clyent that this can be layde of all men least to M. Feck And héere lyke a wel enstructed proctor he reckneth what good déedes he did in Q. Maries dayes and appealeth to certayne Right honorables as the Lorde Earle of Leicester the lorde Earle of Bedforde the lorde Earle of VVarwike Sir VVilliam Cecill secretarie Yea the Queenes maiestie hir selfe to defende and purge him The good déedes that he reckneth vp are these two First that sir Iohn Cheekes life landes and goodes by his trauayle and humble suite were saued The other His hope is that the Queenes highnesse his soueraigne good Lady will thus muche reporte of hym how in the beginning of hir highnesse trouble hir highnesse then beeing imprisoned in the Court at VVestm and before hir committie to the Towre his good hap was to preache a sermon before Queene Mary and hir honorable councell in the Courte where he moued hir highnesse and them also to mercy and to haue consideration of the Queenes highnesse that now is then in trouble and newly entred in prison VVhat displeasure he susteined therfore I do heere saith M. St. omit to expresse but this I certenly know that he hath reported and hath most humbly thanked almightie God and hir highnesse that hir highnesse had the same in remeÌ„brance at the first last talke that euer he had with hir in hir palace at VVestin before hir highnes coronation I trust these are suffycient personages for M. Feck purgation and discharge against your false 〈◊〉 And so he concludeth with a prayer that M. Feck may be made partaker of the like dooinges as he then shewed to other men That downe M. St. God hath graunted him long time M. Fec hath felt it nor if he be not too vnthaÌ„kful can deny it yea your selfe graunt that he confesseth the Q. highnesse to be his soueraigne good lady reported that hir highnesse forgot not the same I warrant you forslacked not the large recompence of his sermon not only if he would haue reuoked his errars superâ—…titions but also euen as he wilfully refused hir highnes fauourable inclinatioÌ„ towards him I haue herd him ofteÌ„ times my selfe publikely priuately acknowledge what the Q. maiestie most liberally gaue him at the reducing of the Minster to the former estate But what doth this Pharisaicall repetition of his former good déedes then excuse his obstinate disobedience now or proue that his booke set foorth agaynst the Queenes maiesties authoritie dispersed among hir subiects is notnowe a very preparation to rebellion if he did any thing then to deserue fauour now let him now so behaue him selfe that he may finde it the Quéenes maiestie is most mercyful and beneficiall What hindreth him then but his owne rebellions obstinacie and yet he hathe founde since what little fauour so euer he got for other then tenfolde muche more doubled to him agayne Little fauoure God knoweth and hir Highnesse felte founde she in that hir trouble and streight imprisonment after M. Feck sermon But ye will not expresse what displeasure M. Fec susteined for mouing Quéene Mary and hir Councell to mercy and to haue but consideration of the Queenes highnesse that now is What gotte he so great displeasure for thus much M. St was it so sore a matter to moue them to mercy and consideration of their doinges I had thought they had done all thinges with mercy and great consideration But why will ye not expresse it forsooth ye should then expresse what excéeding crueltie whiche can hardly be expressed what inconsiderate doings the Papistes vsed then neither coulde they
chiefly directed to dissuade hir subiects myndes to whome in hucker mucker ye sende these bookes ouer from the acknowledging of the sayde hiâ—… Maiesties supreme authoritie maye it not truly be sayde men maye iustly gather this as youre chiefe ende Is not euery wriâ—…ers chiefe ende to persuade his reader in his principall matter is not this here youre principall matter to improue the taking vpon hir of this authoritie If ye haue any chiefer ende or more principall purpose that is better than this cléere your self and shew it Uerâ—…ly our chiefest end in writing hereof is to persuade hir subiectes that by your deceiuings stand in any mammering to a godly liking of the sayd title as most dâ—…e and lawfull to hir highnesse estate And if yours be not the contrarie hereto let your doings be according and we shal like it the better But see here M. Stapleton how soone ye folter in your numbers and misse in your tale at the fyrste beginning of all ye haue scored vs vp in your marginall score two vntruthes when ye come to counting them twaine afterward in your answere ye recken vs vp thrée saying of the second in your score This is an vntrue and false surmise of Maister Horne as are the other two here also reckning vp that that ye counted for the first And thus wée knowe not whether we haue euen or odde 2. or 3. Wherby all your reckening is marde and false counted Is this your daunce M. Stap. in beginning to trip the round when one lye tumbles out so proprely in the necke of an other But hoysta God blesse them they fallout faire Howbeit as they say it is a good horse that neuer stumbled thoughe it be an euill signe to stumble yea to fall downe right at the first setting out I make proofe by the continuall practise of the Church in like gouernment as the Queenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir The thirde vntruth you neuer proue the like gouernment namely in all Ecclesiasticall thinges and causes The truthe or vntruthe of this being referred to the triall in the sayde practise will soone pull backe this thirde dauncer from hopping in your rounde And as for your self ye are a false piper M. Stapleton thus soone vnto your liâ—… to pipe a wrong rounde harping on an other issue than was required of the B. to proue Wherin as your greate falshood â—…hal appeare so your selfe do here halfe graunt this to be no vntruth daring not flatly say the Bishop neuer pro ued the like gouernment which the Bishop only here affirmeth but you denie it in a respect namely say you in al ecclesiasticall things and causes â–ª which the Bishop here affirmeth not nor it is his propre issue in question demaunded of Master Feck and yet he proueth euen that also I haue put into englishe the authors myndes and sentences The fourth vntruth for he wrongfully alleageth both the wordes and meanings of his authours He bringeth no instance at al wherby to proue this that he sayth which til he can do it must go for a lie of his owne making wherby he measureth other mens translations by his owne corrupting his authors wordes sentences mindes and all as is alreadie declared This title is so replenished with vntrue reportes The fyfth vntruth in wrongfully charging M Feckenham for the title of his treatise Whether Master FeckeÌ„hams treatise had a true title or no lette others déeme Maister Feckenham made a treatise entituled by the name of An ansvvere to the Queenes Maiesties Commissioners and the same by writing be deliuered to the Bishop of Winchester and afterwarde sent abroade the sayd Treatise entituled by name The declaration of suche scruples c. as Maister Iohn Feckenham by vvryting did deliuer vnto the Lorde Bishop c. when he neuer deliuered any suche entituled treaâ—…ise vnto him Is this then vntruly or wrongfully donâ—… to charge him of the title of his treatise His sixth and seuenth vntruth trifling denials You. c. not without the helpe of the reste as may be gathered deuised wrote and purposed to deliuer this booke to the Commissioners The eyght vntruth slaunderous Neither doth the Bishop flatly affirme it but only sayth as may be gathered whervpon M. Stapl. can not iustly gather a flat asseueration one way or other â–ª to conclude his vntruth Neither doth M St. improue it any way thoughe â—…e himselfe and that verie often without any coniecturing of the matter and yet can he gather no iust coniecture therof doth boldly charge the Bishop with the helpe of other Which so often as he doth he shoulde remember that this vntruth returneth on himselfe In al which points ye were so answered that ye had nothing to obiecte but seemed resolued and in a manerfully satisfyed The. 9. vntruth M. Feck was neuer so answered And in his couÌ„terblast he saith had not the B. put in these wordes In a maner otherwise it had passed al goodmaner honestie too so vntruly to make report the contrary being so wel known that he neuer yelded vnto you in any one poynt of religion neither in Courte nor yet in mannour nor else where Ye are a mannerly man I perceyue mayster Stapleton and as full of good manners or honestie it appeareth as an egge is full of oatemeale Belike ye haue bene brought vp neyther at courte nor mannour but at Hogges norton as they saye for otherwise what good manner or honestie is this to chalenge youre better of so heynous vntruth and proue nothyng at all agaynste hym but saye the contrarie is well knowne when your selfe knowe it not at al but speake without the booke For shame M. Stapl. learne better maners to referre it to them that were present at the hearing of both parties and then shal ye hazard your honestie and truth a great deale the lesse and shewe your nourture to be the more Wherevpon I made afterwarde relation of good meaning towardes you to certayn honourable persones of the good hope I had conceyued c. The. 10. vntruth incredible VVhat good meaning coulde he haue to him when he would haue him reuolt from the religion by him receiued and professed at Baptisme to reuolt from the faith of Christes catholike churche c. Why Master Stapleton is this incredible that the Bishop hoping of his conformitie in making relation thereof to the honourable might not haue therin a good meaning yea admitte the truth whiche he professeth were as false as you woulde haue it séeme to bée mighte he not for all that haue a good meaning Saule had a good meaning ye wot when he did full ill And how say ye to your Scholemen that speake so muche good of a good meaning yea euen in ill causes But as the Bishop meant wel to him so the cause was good also and your cause naught how well so euer ye meane in an
ye can be no Prelate of the Garter beeing no Prelate at all that beeing a prerogatiue appropriate to the Prelate and B. of VVinchester Soft M. St. if ye be so playne blunt a man as ye pretrÌ„d ne sutor vltra crepâ—…da hew not tâ—… hye least chips fall in your eye blunder not so rudely with princes must the Q. Maiestie beare with you to bicause you must needs go bluntly to worke ye presume to determine what the Q. highnes may do She can make him â—… but she can not make him L. B. of VV. And why so M. St considering he is not Lorde but in respecte of some baronage and temporalties belonging and annexed to the See of VVinchester Ergâ—… then ye graunt him to be Lorde B. by your owne words to whom the Q. highnesse as you graunt she may in respect of the temporalties and baronies belonging therto hath graunted and giuen him them Wherby she hath made him Lord except ye wil denie that hir highnesse authoritie which euen al your popish bishops did receiue before at hir graces progenitors hands neither the baronies and temporalties onely wheâ—…by they were named Lords but their inuestiture also wherby they were Byshops at the Princes handes But see stil how bluntly ye go to worke against your self for hast to remoue this title of Lord from the B. of W. ye ouerturn the glory of your own prelats For if this your rule be true that he is not called Lord but in respect of some baronies temporalties belonging and annexed to the See how many Cardinals Bishops Suffraganes Abbots Priors euen in Italie that haue neither baronies nor muche temporalties should léese their title of Lorde honour thinke you all these will be pleased with this your rule We must beare with you there is no remedie and well may M. Feck of friendship the B. of pitie beare with you also the Quéenes maiestie of hir gracious clemencie beareth with your saucie bluntnesse But assure your selfe and ye were as blunt playne as euer were your Marcolphus those Italian prelates if ye stayne their honour will neuer beare with you one iot And I rede you beware this bluntnesse for they can do much with your holy father the Pope except ye be so blunt ye care not for him neither But deale with them as ye may ye are blunt inoughe in your owne conceite for the finest of them all Let vs sée what reasons moueth you to be so blunt with the B. He is not L. Byshop of VVin. nor Prelate of the Garter Why so bicause he is no B. or Prelate at all How proue ye that he is an vsurper he is an intruder he is called therto by no lawfull vocation nor canonicall consecration c. he is no true B. c. his vocation is direct contrarie to the canons and constitutions of the Churche and to the vniuersall custome and maner heretofore vsed and practised not onely in Englande but also in all other Catholike countreys and Churches deliuered to vs from hande to hande from age to age euen from the first graâ—…fing and planting of the fayth especially in Englande Here are many blunt playne words in déede M. St. and many great crakes but here is no proofe of any do not think ye muste still be thus borne withall your to muche presuming of eche mans pacience to beare with your rudenesse will hazarde your credite to farre excepte ye alledge some reason of your sayings Let vs heare therefore what proues ye bring For the which I referre me say you to all autentike and auncient â–ª recordes as well of Englande as of other Nations concerning the ordinary succession of Bishops namely in the foresayde Sea of VVinchester for there was not no not one in that Sea that did not acknowledge the supremacie of the Sea of Rome and that was not confirmed by the same vntil the late time of M. Poynet who otherwise also was an vsurper the true B. then liuing and by no lawfull or ecclesiasticall order remoued or depriued Ye are therefore the first B. of this sewt and race and so consequently no B. at al. As not able to shew to whom ye did ordinarily succede and any good or customable either vocation or coÌ„secration VVhich point being necessarily required in a B. and in your Apostles Luther and Caluin other lacking as I haue otherwhere sufficieÌ„tly proued though you by depesilence thinke it more wisdome vtterly to desâ—…emble than once to answere they being therwith pressed were so messhed and bewrapped therein that they coulde not in this worlde witte what to say thereto answearing this and that they wiste neare what nor at what poynt to holde them yea Beza was fayne at the last assemblie at Poysie with silence to confesse the inuincible truth Setting aside these vaine crakes manifest lying slaunders which I referre to your common places M. St. I will answeare onely to your inuincible argument Which standeth vpon your common bragge of succession Your argument is this ye succeede no Bishop of VVinchester Ergo ye are no Bishop of VVincester I answere First if he meane succession of the person in the roome your antecedent is euident false He succeded the persons of Popishe Bishops in the same roome And the consequent followeth not For then the first Bishop of that Sea was no B. bicause he succeded none but was the first therâ—…f And if the first was none then the second was none and so there was neuer any at all If ye meane sucession of the doctrine and the Apostles rules then neyther Bishoppe Gardiner whom ye call the true B. nor any popishe Bishops haue succession but digression and defection from them And our Bishoppes haue the true succession that is to say followe the doctrine and orders of the Apostles prescribed in the worde of god for a Bishops office But howe do ye proue your antecedent Of all the Bishops not onely in Englande but in other nations namely in the Sea of VVinchester From hand to hand from age to age euen from the first grafting and planting of the fayth in Englande not one of them all no not one that did not acknowledge the supremacie of the sea of Rome and that was not confirmed by the same But you do not acknowledge the supremacie of the Sea of Rome nor are confirmed by the same Ergo ye are the first Bishop of this sewt and race and so consequently no bishop at all as not able to shew to whome ye did ordinarily succeede or any good and customable eyther vocation or consecration This argument M. Stapleton is of a newe sewt and race it succedeth neither good nor customable moode or figure and therfore can make no good successe Howbeit lâ—…t vs sée the partes of it The minor we graunt as euident on the Bishops part For the maior we must put you to your proufe We affirme it to conteyne many euident falshoodes For proufe hereof
Empresses write for Flauianus Bishop of Constantinople and for the Bishop of Rome Wherein though they ascribe the dealings to the Councell and to the Bishop of Rome yet the licence and authoritie to do any thing or to stay any thing they al ascribe to the Emperour And as they ascribe this in these Epistles vnto him which argueth his supreme gouernement in all these matters so the Emperour in the answeres to these Epistles that are immediatly set downe to those by you cited acknowledgeth and claymes his supreme authoritie therein In the answere to the first from whence ye bring your allegation for the Popes primacie he saith The Emperour Theodosius to my Lord Valentinian Emperour In the beginning of your letters it is signified by your Maiestie both that your mildenesse came to Rome and that a petition was offered vp to you by Leo the most reuerende Patriarche As concerning your safe returne to the Citie of Rome O my Lorde my moste holy Sonne and honorable Emperour we render thankes accordingly to the diuine Maiestie but as concerning those things which the foresaide most reuerende man hath spoken it is already declared vnto him more plainly and fully as we suppose and he knoweth that we swarue in no parte from the Religion of our fathers and the tradition of our auncetours We will no other thing than the fathers sacraments deliuered as by succession to keepe them inuiolably For this cause therefore hauing knowledge that certaine persons with hurtfull noueltie trouble the most holy Churches we haue decreed a Synod to be holden at Ephesus VVhereas in the presence of the most reuerend Bishops with much libertie and with sounde truth both the vnworthie were remoued from their Priesthood and those that were iudged to be worthy were receyued VVe therefore know nothing committed of them contrary to the rules of faith or iustice Therefore all the contention was examined of the holy Councell Flauianus which was founde giltie of hurtfull newfanglednesse hath receiued his dew and he being remoued all peace and concorde remaineth in the Churches and nothing but truth doth florish Thus the dealing and determining of the controuersie remayning Synodically to the Priests and Bishops the decreing of the Councell the assigning of the time and place thereto the giuing them in charge to boulte out the truth the receyuing intelligence from them of their iudgements the allowing and ratifying their determination belonged to Theodosius And in respect of this his supreme doing though at other times he extoll the Bishop of Rome yet here he onely calleth him but most reuerende Patriarche and most reuerend man as he calleth other Bishops The answere to the second Epistle hath the like Theodosius to my Ladie Placidia the honorable Empresse our highnesse vnderstandeth by the letters of your mildenesse what the most reuerende patriarch Leo hath desired of your highnesse To these your letters we declare that concerning those things whiche are spoken of the most reuerende Bishop we haue written often times alreadie more fully and more at large by which writing it is without doubt manifest that we haue defined or decreed or vnderstoode nothing besides the fayth of the fathers or the diuine opinions or the definitions of the most reuerende Bishops which were gathered togither in the Citie of Nice vnder Constantine of godly memorie or of late were gathered togither at Ephesus by our precept But this onely we commaunded to be ordeyned that all persons which by noisome hurtfulnesse troubled the holy Churches should worthily be remoued c. Thus doth the Emperour commaunde the Councell to be holden He giueth a generall charge to the Bishops to ordeyne that that they ordeyned to wete the expulsion or deposition of perturbers of the Church whatsoeuer they were and in what matter ecclesiasticall soeuer they were And when the Bishops had according to the Emperours commaundement ordeynes this decrée and in their synodicall discussing of the matter found out Flauianus though therein they did him wrong to be culpable hereof then the Emperor peruseth ratifieth and confirmeth the same their synodicall iudgement and sayth he defined and decreed it himselfe bicause he approued and confirmed their definition and decrée Which is a manifest argument of Thodosius supreme authoritie ouer all the Bishops debatings and determinings of their ecclesiasticall constitutions To the same effect is the other Epistle to Eudoxia Wherin he telleth the Empresse flatly that since these things were alreadie decreed it was not possible to determine of the matter any more In which deniall of suffring the matter to be tryed any further he sheweth also his supreme authoritie of debarring and frustrating any appeales to Rome that you make so great accompt vpon The Emperour will not onely not suffer it to take place and to infringe the Councels and his owne doing but sayth it is impossible to procéede on the matter alreadie determined And thus he reiecteth Flauianus appeale from the Epheâ—…ine Councell to the Bishop of Rome Which Councell notwithstanding should also haue bene held by the Emperours leaue and appoyntment But he would not allow it although Pope Lee laboured to him and to Ualentinian Emperors to Eudoria and Placidia Empresses neuer so much therefore Lo M. St. here are the generalities and the particularities also Wherein ye may sée what belongeth to eyther partie Hearken good M. Stap. and giue good aduertisement therto since ye will not vtter it your selfe and yet woulde haue vs listen to you You say ye wander not in obscure generalities but ye go to worke plainly truly and particularly And yet of all this ye speake not one word Ye would neither answerâ—… the Bishops allegation but set another agaynst it which is no plaine nor true kinde of aunswering neither yet for that you alleage ye alleage it either plainely or truely or particularly as ye pretende But cull out a piece of that that séemeth to set forth your cause by extolling the Bishop of Rome and when the matter is plainly truly and particularly sifted out it neither proueth any supremacie for him and in all poynts sheweth the Princes supremacie against you But ye are the more to be borne withall for I thinke ye read not the whole particulars but either as your commoÌ„ places led you or the title prefixed tickled you that saith In qua quoque Romani Pontificiâ—… authoritas comâ—…ndatur VVherein also the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome is commended And so gréedily ye snatched at that sentence and let go all the residue But call ye this plainly truly and particularly going to worke master Stapleton The. 26. Diuision THe Bishop hauing hitherto as master Feck required in his issue proued by the Scriptures both by the olde testament and the newe and by some such Doctours as haue written thereon and also which was more than M. Feck requested by the ecclesiasticall writers Nicephorus and by some of those Emperors whom they commend for most godly proued the like
had not deliuered vs from it and yet sée if these Papistes that can so narrowly spie and proll at euery note in king Henry and kings Edwards dayes can in Quéene Maries dayes espie anye one of these great beames that were such apparante tokens of gods wrath that all men sawe and felt what euents succeeded the refusall of this title and the yéelding it to the Pope nerehand the cleane subuersion of this Realme if we may iudge by sequels Now after Quéene Marie he comes to the Quéenes Maiestie that now God be praised most prosperously raigneth ouer vs. But vvhen very many giuen to heresies vvere offended at this notable modestie of the Queene neither vvould they yet vnderstande his Counsell in gouerning his Churche God brought to passe that Marie of happie memorie being dead the kingdome of England should deuolue to such a vvoman as novve vvriteth hir selfe The supreme gouernesse in all matters and causes asvvell ecclesiasticall as secular That yet so at the length by the successe it selfe men of hard harte and obstinate necke mighte marke hovv euill king Henry tooke this office vpon him the vvhiche of his heire and successour could not duely and orderly be fulfilled For to whom it is not permitted to teach vvhich is the most necessarie office of an ecclesiasticall Head hovv shal she performe those greater offices that are occupied in the chastisement and correction of them that ought to teache the people or shall she vvhich is vnvvorthie that she should hir selfe teache publiquely in the lovvest degree moderate and reprehend vvith lavvful authoritie other publique teachers in the highest degree or if she can not lavvfully reprehend them shall she yet be lavvfully supreme gouernesse of the Church I omit here the things that in these yeares vvhich are last passed haue bene I knovv not hovv vncomely done and preached in Englande vnder such supreme heads of the Church I spare the dignitie of theÌ„ that gouerne Another time if God vvill I vvill handle them particularly hovve greatly both from the lavve of God and from the sentence of the auncient Churche and from righte reason that state of a common vveale is farre in vvhiche any king arrogateth to himselfe the office and name of the supreme head of the Church Is your part so false and weake of proues Maister Saunders that it can win no credite but by discrediting of ours with sclaunders and yet we woulde pardon this in you ascribing it either to some passion of choler against your aduersaries or to blinde affection of your selues that ye call verie manie of vs giuen to heresies hard harted and obstinate necked which are termes fitter to muster in M. Stapletons coÌ„mon places than to stuffe vp M. doctor Saunders volumes howe they redownde vpon your selues let other iudge â–ª that will reade and view of both But if we forgiue you this for our parts shal we stil suffer you to raile vpoÌ„ sclander the Lordes annoynted saying she arrogateth to hir selfe the office and name of the supreme Head of the Church speaking at randon withoute limitation of the Churche as the Pope doth arrogate to himselfe and taketh on hir to be an ecclesiasticall head and publique teacher of other that should teach hir these are too too infamous sclauÌ„ders of hir Maiestie that claimeth no such title nor attempteth any such thing What supreme gouernement is ascribed to hir highnesse we haue tolde you a thousand times but I sée ye will not vnderstand it bicause ye would of set purpose sclander it But to knit vp your argument of the euent and sequele of the Quéenes Maiesties raigne ye say many things haue bin done and preached in England ye cannot tell hovv vnsemely â—… thinke euen the same M. Saunders ye can not tell howe â—…ndede But howe vnseemely a thing is this for one of your â—…rofession to chalenge ye cannot tell what nor howe ye set owne nothing but vnder a pretence of sparing vs to bréede â—…et a furder sclaunderous suspition ye threat vs that ye will â—…serue theÌ„ til a furder leisure that is to say ad Kalendas graecas til â—…e shall first know them and then be able to proue them in the meane seasoÌ„ ye take the wisest way to say such ther are but what they are ye cannot now tell ye wil learne theÌ„ out and tell vs another time but tell the worste ye canne ye shal neuer be able to tell of any fals doctrine preached and by the Prince approued to be preached nor of anye wicked facte allowed by publike authoritie to be done No Maister Saunders in all the Quéenes Maiesties raigne ye can neuer be able to proue any suche things but in the raigne of your Popes we can proue many such things as whordome committed and maintained murder done and maintained Idolatry vsed and maintained and infinite errors preached and maintained by publique authoritie among the Papists As for the Quéenes maiesties raigne that now is if the euent and sequele may make an argument God hath so blessed it maugre all your spites and practises that no Realme christian hath florished like nor Englande more at anye tyme The Lord be praised for it and for his mercie sake long continue it that hath giuen so goodly a token of his well liking hir Maiesties supreme gouernment The thirde Chapter The argument is that Princes can not iudge nor define in causes Ecclesiasticall OF those errors that are about the povver of kings and magistrats the secoÌ„d error is of theÌ„ that thinke kings are not in dede the chief heads of the Churches in vvhich they raigne but in certaine causes Ecclesiastiall to bee euen as vvorthie members as Bishops â–ª for although in one certaine thing as in the office of teaching they preferre Bishops before kings yet partly in another Ecclesiasticall matter as in deposing a Byshop from his seat or in moderating any synode they preferre kings before Bishops partly they vvill haue it free for kings that almoste in euery ecclesiasticall matter they may knowe and decerne as Iudges Of the confutation of whiche errour this is the reason that I should shewe in euery cause of the ecclesiastical lawe that is to be knowne and iudged Kinges to be so muche in the place of priuate men that this trial can not of the ecclesiasticall Iudges be committed vnto them Although I denie not but that of some facte that perteyneth to the eccl. lawe the knowledge may be committed to Kinges and Magistrates But before the eccl. cause be known the king may orderly intermeddle his authoritie to that ende that a quiet place may be graunted where the Bishops should iudge And also that the Bishops may be called at a certayne day to that place And that in the meane season whyle the ecclesiasticall cause is knowne the publique peace yea euen in the assembly of Priestes may be conserued To conclude after the cause knowne and iudged of the Pristes the king either by the sworde that he