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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A61451	An apology for the ancient right and power of the bishops to sit and vote in parliaments ... with an answer to the reasons maintained by Dr. Burgesse and many others against the votes of bishops : a determination at Cambridge of the learned and reverend Dr. Davenant, B. of Salisbury, Englished : the speech in Parliament made by Dr. Williams, L. Archbishop of York, in defence of the bishops : two speeches spoken in the House of Lords by the Lord Viscount Newarke, 1641.	Stephens, Jeremiah, 1591-1665.; Davenant, John, ca. 1572-1641.; Williams, John, 1582-1650.; Newark, David Leslie, Baron, d. 1682.	1660 (1660)	Wing S5446; ESTC R18087	87,157	146

thither out of England there being then no Universities neither Paris nor Padua nor Oxon nor Cambridge Only Rome was the principal place for Learning in these Western parts and therefore our Saxon Kings built the Colledge there for English Scholars and purchased Lands in Italy for the maintenance thereof and also gave the Peter-pence for their better allowance and encouragement which as Mr. Fuller accounteth in his late History was the sum of seven thousand and Five hundred pounds The Peter-pence was given not as a Tribute to the Pope as our Common-Chronicles do grant it and Polydor Virgilius and Baronius but as a stipend to maintain the English Colledge As Spelman sheweth clearly upon the word Denarius St. Petri which Doctor Burgesse might have observed better and not have yeilded it to the Tribute paid to the Pope as he doth grant it pag. 18. of his Reply King Henry the eighth and those about him had forgotten the true use of them and therefore in the Tempest of his Indignation swept them away among other superstitious things in a Statute but it might have been justly continued for the first intention and purpose to educate learned men beyond Seas to learn the Civil and Common Law and forraign languages also matters of State who upon their return home after some seven or eight years would deserve best to be preferred to publick places in Church or State The Kings of England well knowing the necessity of such learned men did anciently and of late send some choice Scholars out of either Universities to forraign Countries as Cambden observeth speaking of Sir Thomas Smith Anno 1577. Annis maturior selectus ut in Italiam Regiis impensis mitteretur ad nostra enim tempora nonnulli adolescentes optimae spei ex utraque Academia ad uberiorem ingenii cultum Regum sumptibus in exteris Regionibus alebantur So was Cardinal Pool in his younger years sent abroad by Henry the eighth Sir William Paget Sir Thomas Smith Sir William Peters and Sir Iohn Mason these two having been fellows of All-Souls Colledge in Oxon but being further bred abroad in forraign Countries they gained great experience and wisdome and were made either principal Officers or Secretaries of State at their return home and were principal men about the King for Counsel and disputes of businesse and guided the Kings Counsels in affairs of most importance Education in our own Universities at home is not sufficient to enable men for all publick places and offices under a King It is well known that learned young men of the best sort in the Universities being sent abroad to travail when they come home are commonly men of far better abilities then such as have only stayed at home as of late years Sir Edwin Sandys Sir Isaac Wake Sir Iohn Digby Sir Clement Edmond and Dr. Bryan Duppa now Bishop of Salisbury both these having been fellows of All-Souls Colledge and Docter Duppa specially chosen to be the Princes Tutor having been bred a Civilian in his Colledge and eminent besides for all polite Literature and proctor of the University and afterwards travailing into France and Spain upon his return home it was not long before King Charles took special notice and made choice of him for the instruction of his three Sons who are now the most accomplished Princes in Christendome notwithstanding the late disturbance and Rebellion of these present times and are likely to prove the most renowned when the present troubles shall be composed Education goes beyond nature as Aristotle sheweth 1. Ethic. Good instruction and learned Education doth add those perfections which cannot be obtained with ordinary helps and by such men as know only their own native Country and Climat The opposition that some men make against the Votes and presence of the Bishops in Parliaments and other places of Office and imployment under the King doth arise from that false principle that jurisdiction Ecclesiastical and civil ought to be distinct and separate both for persons and their imployments Which is already here confuted it being one grand error of Calvin and Beza with divers others that follow them too closely in all opinions as if they had been men free from error Our Bishops in ancient times were most part Lawyers learned in the Civil and Canon Laws and thereby also knowing much in the Canon Law and therefore they were the chiefest Judges of the Land in all Courts of Justice as Spelman sheweth in his learned Glossary for 200 years after the Conquest reckoning the Catalogue of the great Lord cheif Justices being most part men of the Church pag. 409. 410 c. and so pag. 131. Fungebantur antique cancellariatus dignitate viri tantum Ecclesiastici Episcopi qui praeterea Curam gerebant Regiae cap●llae repositaque illic Monumenta Rotulos Recorda vocant sacra custodia tuebantur c. And so also Lord Cook sheweth 1. Instit. lib. 3. pag. 304. B. In ancient time the Lord Chancellour and Treasurer were most part men of the Church yet were they expert and learned in the Laws of the Realm as for example in the time of the Conquerour Egelricus Episcopus Cicestrousis viz. Antiquissimus in legibus sapientissimus Nigellus Episcopus Eliensis Hen. 1. The saurarius in temporibus suis incomparabilem habuit Scacarii scientiam de eadem scripsit optime Henricus Cant. Episcopus H. Dunelm Episcopus Willielmus Episcopus Eliensis G. Roffensis Episcopus Martinus de Pateshall Clericus Decanus divi Pauli London constitutus fuit capitalis Iusticiarius de Banco c. Willielmus de Raleash Clericus Iusticiarius Domini Regi● Iohannes Episcopus Caliolensis temp H. 3. Robertus Passelew Episcopus Cicestrensis temp H. 3. Robertus de Lexinton Clericus constitutus sapitalis Iusticiarius de Banco Iohannes Briton Episcopus Hereford Henricus de Stanton Clericus constitutus fuit capitalis Iustic ad placita With many others So also Selden affirmeth in his Notes upon Fleta Sir Iohn Eliott in his Speech in Parliament confesseth that there are among our Bishops whose profession I honour saith he such as are fit to be made example for all ages who shine in vertue and are firm for our Religion c. as Rushworth relateth in his Collections pag. 661. If Bishops be so eminent that they shine in vertue certainly they are fit men to be present in Parliaments for Parliaments ought to consist of such men as shine in vertue as are firm for Religion A Learned Knight and Courtier writing an answer to Sir Anth. Welden his Pamphlet entituled the Court and Character of King Iames pag. 178. where he speaketh of the preferment of Doctor Williams to be Lord Keeper of the great Seal sheweth That former ages held it more consonant to reason to trust the Conscience of the Clergy with the case of the Lay-men they best knowing a case of Conscience And anciently the civil Law was always judged by the Ministers of the Church and

the Chancery and Courts of Equity in charge of a Divine Minister So ran that Channel till Sir Francis Bacons Father had it from a Bishop and now a Bishop had it again from Bacon And had King Iames lived to have effected his desires the Clergy had fixed firm footing in Courts of Judicature out of the road of Common Law and this was the true cause of Williams Invitation thither To prevent many Complaints and Mischiefs there can be no better way then to follow the Example of Gods own chosen people of Israel where the chief fathers of the priests and Levites were Judges in all Courts both high and low sitting together with some chief men of the other Tribes of the Laity as they are now called And though our Law be otherwise of late years and the jurisdiction of Courts divided yet it was not so anciently and the King may put some of the Clergy in some places and Courts at least of Equity as King Iames did design if he had lived longer and that without any prejudice to the Law or Courts of Justice CHAP. IV. Concerning the Honour and Dignity of the Bishops in the time of the Saxons and so continued to these times FOr the Dignity Order and Estimation of the Clergy they were from the beginning reckoned and accounted equal with the best as appears by the Laws of divers Kings as first of the first Christian King Ethelbert who in his Laws doth provide in the first place for their rights and priviledges and what Satisfaction shall be made for any wrong done to the Church or Bishops or Clergy Quicunque res Dei vel Ecclesiae abstulerit duodecima componat solutione Episcopi res undecima solutione Sacerdotis res nona solutione Diaconi res sexta solutione Clerici res trina solutione Pax Ecclesiae Violata duplici emendetur solutione Volens scilicet tuitionem eis quos quorum doctrinam susceperat praestare saith Bede These being the first Laws of our first Christian King of the Saxons they ought to be reverenced for their Antiquity piety and Christian Justice in rendering to every man his own due though some men talk not only of taking away superfluities but of cutting up both root and branches O Tempora O Mores And afterwards about the time of King VVithred there were laws made Quomodo damna injuriae sacris ordinibus illata sunt compensanda And often elsewhere in the Councils many Laws do ordain what satisfaction shall be given to the Church and Bishops for several offences committed for then the Bishops had a great part in all fines and shared in forfeitures and penalties with the King Furthermore for point of Honour and Dignity it appears by the Laws of King Athelstan that every Archbishop was equal to a Duke of a Province Every Bishop to an Earl and so esteemed in their valuations Vide K. Athelstani Regis apud Lambardum p. 71. Concil Britannica pag. 405. cap. 13. de Weregeldis 1. capitum aestimationibus The Title of Baron was not then known or used among the Saxons but they called the Nobility Thanes Vid. K. Inae pag. 187. Sect. 9. and the Bishops were equal or rather superiour to the Thanus Major and the priest to the Thanus minor The Bishop and Earl are valued at eight thousand Theynses Messe-Theynes and Worald-Theynes id est Presbyteri secularis Thani jusjur andum in Anglorum lege reputatur aeque sacrum cùm Sacerdos Thani rectitudine dignus est The Priest was then accounted equal to a Knight or Lord of the Town and was commonly styled by the name of Sir as a Knight was though now it be derided and out of use Out of these Laws and some others doth the learned Antiquary who is so well versed in the Antiquities and Monuments of our Laws and Kingdome fully set down the ancient dignity and order of the Clergy Magno sane in honore fuit Universus clerus cum apud Populum Proceres tum apud ipsos Reges Angliae Saxonicos nec precaria hoc quidem concessione sed ipsis confirmatum legibus Sacerdos ad altare Celebrans minori Thano i. e. Villae Domino atque militi aequiparabatur in censu capitis pariter aestimatus pariterque alias honorandus quia Thani rectitudine dignus est Inquit Lex Abbas sine C●nobiarcha inter Thanos majores quos Barones Regis appellarunt posteri primicerius fuit Episcopus similiter inter Comites ipsos majores qui integro fruebantur comitatu juribusque Comitivis Archiepiscopus Duci satratrapae amplissimae Provinciae pluribus gaudenti comitatibus praeficiebatur Vt caeteri omnes Ecclesiastici comparibus suis omnibus secularibus Amplectebantur Reges universum clerum laeta fronte ex eo semper sibi legebant primos a consisiis primos ad officia Reipublicae obeunda Quippe sub his seculis apud ipsos solum erat literarum clavis scientiae dum militiae prorsus indulgerent laici factumque est interea ut os sacerdotis oraculum esset plebis Episcopi oraculum Regis Reipu● Primi igi●ur sedebant in omnibus Regni comitiis tribunalibus Episcopi in Regali quidem palatio cum Regni magnatibus in comitatu una cum comite Iusticiaerio comitatus in Turno Vicecomitis cum Vice●omite in Hundredo cum Domino Hundredi sic ut in promovenda justitia usquequaque gladius gladium adjuvaret nihil inconsulto sacerdote qui velut saburra in navi fuit ageretur Mutavit priscam hanc consuetudinem Gulielmus primus c. After the Conquest William the first divided the Ecclesiastical Courts from the secular not with a purpose to diminish the Ecclesiastical authority Imo jurej●rando confirmavit leges sanctae matris Ecclesiae quoniam per cam Rex Regnum solidum habent subsistendi firmamentum Yet the Bishops and Clergy do not now expect or desire to enjoy their ancient splendor amplitude and dignities seeing the greatnesse of their Revenue which should uphold the dignity is long since taken away So that well might Bishop Latimer in his Sermon before King Edward say We of the Clergy have had too much but that is taken away and now we have too little For there was no lesse in the whole taken away from them then many hundred thousands sterling too incredible to be here briefly expressed I will only mention one for example the Arch-bishoprick of York from which was taken 72. mannors and Lordships at one instant by one of the last statutes of Hen. 8. and the like happened to Canterbury London Lincoln and all the rest which me thinks should be enough to satisfie that men should not go about to strip them of these poor pittances that are left unto them being but small fragments in comparison of their ancient patrimony which the liberality and piety of the primitive times ha● conferred on them when Charity

confidebant orationibus quam armorum defen●ionibus The Prince and People did rely more upon the prayers of the Church for their deliverance and help then upon any arms that they could raise though the necessity of those times was very urgent burdensome and desperate But there is no such Piety Mercy or favour now shewed to the Churc● or any part of the Clergy But their Estates Lands and Revenues are the first that are seised on sequestred sold and disposed to raise money for the maintenance of War and paiment of Souldiers Gothes and Vandals Scots and Red●hanks as errand Philistines as ever came out of Gath and Askelon And all particular ministers of every Parish though they loose not all their Tythes yet they are taxed in a greater proportion then any Lay men and many Shires petitioned the Parliament to take away Tithes and it was debated also in the Rump-Parliament to take away Tythes and the Lands of both Universities to maintain Soldiers and their Charges which are so excessive and outragious Hanc libertatem te●uit Anglorum Ecclesia usque ad tempus VVillielmi junioris c. VVilliam Rufus was the first that inforced this payment on the Barons and the Clergy Concessum est ei non lege statutum neque firmatum sed habuit necessitatis causa ex unaqu●que hyda quatuor solidos Ecclesia non excepta quorum dum fiere● collectio proclamabat Ecclesia libertatem suam reposcens sed nihil pr●fecit Thus the Religious and Learned Spelman being the greatest Patron and Defender of the Church and the rights and priviledges thereof that this age hath afforded Glossar pag. 200. on the word Dangeldum Dr. Burgesse the Examiner might have observed what Cambden and Spelman have written of the distinction and difference of Barons both Authors having written long before he had taken the boldnesse to talk so poorly of the Baronies of Bishops to whom William the Conquerour did not add much to endear them but imposed many burdens upon them He restrained them in many things using the power of a Conquerour and clipped the Wings of their Temporal power and confined them within the Limits of their Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction He procured Stigand Archbishop of Canterbury Agelrieus Bishop of East-Angles and certain other Bishops and Abbots to be dep●ived by authority from Rome and detained them in prison that strangers might enjoy their places As Sir Iohn Hayward sheweth in his History of the three Norman Kings pag. 87. before time they had part in fines and Mulcts and power of coyning money as appears by the Laws of King Athelstan De Monolariis pag. 399. and many other places But these were soon after reserved to the Crown as principal prerogatives And till the Council of Clarendon under Hen. 2. the Clergy and Bishops enjoyed many more freedoms and priviledges which were abated oftentimes and much diminished about which there was great contention when Thomas Becket opposed the King which the learned Gl●ssary sheweth pag. 82. Episcopi autem Barones dici videantur propter nominis dignitatem non quod vassallagium pendebant aut seculare servitium Hoc enim nostratibus jugum injecit omnium primus Willielmus senior Anno 1070 ut in eodem tradit Matth Paris Auxit magnopere Willielmus junior ut in Historiola Ducum Normaniae in lib. Edwardi Confess C. 11. Sed post varias colluctationes aeterno robore domum confirmavit Hen. 2. Anno Dom. 1164. in magno Concilio Clarendoniae habito Praesidente eidem ex ipsius mandato sacellano suo Iohanne de Oxonia praesentibusque Archiepiscopis Episcopis Abbatibus Prioribus Comitibus Baronibus Regni in hunc tenorem Archiepiscopi Episcopi Vniversae personae Regni qui de Rege tenent in capite habeant possessiones suas de Rege sicut Baroniam inde respondeant Iusticiariis ministris Regis sicut Caeteri Barones debeant interesse judiciis curiae Regis cum Baronibus quousque perveniatur ad diminutionem Membrorum vel ad mortem So that the Bishops besides that they are called by the Kings Writ to Parliament and thereby have the same right that other Lords have yet since the Conquest they may be accounted also among the Feudal Barons Qui nomen dignitatemque suam ratione fundi obtinuerint transferri autem olim aliquando videatur dignitas cum ipso fundo ut Episcopi suas sort●untur Baronias sola fundorum investi●ra Nam ut inquit Stamfordus lib 3. cap 62. Ne ont lieu en Parliament ejus in respect de leur possessions S. L' ancient Barones annexees a leur dignites Whereas therefore Dr. Burgesse saith pag. 45. albeit the Bishops are usually said to hold of the King per B●roniam yet this happily may be meant rather of the honour affixed to their places which works it up into a dignity then of the Land pertaining to them This is but fustian nonsence and gross ignorance for like Feudal Barons suas sortiuntur Baronias sola fundorum investitura In like manner I take it as the Earls of Arundel both formerly and of late being possessed of the Castle of Arundel Honour and Signory without other consideration or creation to be an Earl became Earls of Arundel and the name State and Honour of the Earl of Arundel peaceably enjoyed as appeareth by a definitive judgement given in Parliament as Cambden relateth out of the Parliament Rolls of Hen. 6. out of which Cambden copied out what he saith Further Dr. Burgesse saith That the Bishops ought not to have the same legislative power as the Temporal Barons because these are for their Sons and Heirs and the others for their Successors only This Objection is frivolous because the Bishops being men of great Integrity and Learning are as careful for the preservation of the publick wherein standeth the Safety of themselves and their Successors as any Temporal Lords ●an be and perhaps the more because Temporal Lords do often fall into great want and poverty selling sometimes the very head of their Baronies and so oftentimes become very obnoxious and some of them growing poor have been degraded of their Titles and Honour Whereof Lord Cook giveth an instance 4. Instit. pag. 355. How Nevil both Father and Son Dukes of Bedford were degraded by the King and Parliament 17. Edw. 4. And for so much as it is openly known that George Nevil Duke of Bedford hath not nor by Inheritance may have any livelyhood to support the said Name Estate and Dignity or any name of estate as oftentimes it is seen that when any Lord is called to high estate and have not Livelyhood convenient to support the same dignity it induceth great poverty and indigence and causeth oftentimes great Extortion Imbrolery and maintenance to be had to the great trouble of all such Countries where such estate shall happen to be inhabited wherefore the King by the advice of his Lords Spiritual and Temporal and the Commons in this present

God as they pronounced or prescribed Thus the reverend and Learned Bishop Bilson in his perpetual Government cap. 4. Besides in every City there were private and peculiar Rulers 21. in number as Iosephus saith and also to every Magistracy in those Cities there was allotted two of the Tribe of Levi for assistance as Iosephus witnesseth and if those could not determine the bus●nesse then they did appeal to the great Council And so Grotius sheweth most accurately upon Mat. 5. 21. Now God appointed these offices and dignities and power of Judicature to the Priests and Levites besides their attendance upon Gods service and the Course of every Priest and Levite was but one Week in half a year to attend at the Temple as Iosephus and Scaliger and Selianus doth shew with other accurate Chronologers so that beside their attendance upon Gods Service they had time and leisure enough to be helpful in the Government of the Kingdome Yea sometimes the principal Judges were chosen out of the Tribe of Levi as at the beginning of their Common-wealth Moses himself of that Tribe the greatest prophet prince that ever was among them So after in succeeding times Ely the high Priest was made Judge in his time So also Samuel a Levite was cheif Judge in Israel as 1 Sam. 7. 15. who judged Israel all the dayes of his life And he went from year to year in circuit to Bethell and Gilgal and Mispeh and judged Israel in all those places much alike as our judges do go their Circuits every year throughout the Land p. 17. And his return was to Ramah for there was his House and there he judged Israel and there he built an Altar to the Lord. And his three Sons after him Samuel made them being Levites Iudges over Israel though they did not walk in their Fathers ways but turned aside after lucre and took bribes and perverted judgement After the Captivity of Babylon for some 500 years till the coming of Christ the Priesthood had the greatest stroke in the Government As Ezra the Priest and brother to Iesus the high priest that returned from the Captivity whose memory is honourable among the righteous as learned Montague sheweth against Selden pag. 377. He had Commission from the Persian Emperor Artaxerxes to govern and order the Controversie Ezra 7. 12 25. and gave him authority to set Magistrates and judges which might judge the people and power to execute the laws of God and the King pag. 26. and to inflict punishments unto death or banishment or to confiscation of goods or imprisonment So that Ezra had great authority and full power given him and his worthy Acts are there recorded So afterwards under the Maehabees who were priests the Common-wealth was governed and it pleased God to make that Family victorious as any other almost that ever governed that Common-wealth as Sir Walter Raleigh sheweth lib. 2. cap. 15. If thus it were anciently among the chosen people of God why then should any in these dayes be so much displeased that a Bishop or a Clergy man should have any part in the Government of the Common-wealth or assistance of Government for the better Ordering and Directing of judgment or to be Counsellor to a Prince as Zechariah the Levite was a wise Counsellor 1 Chron. 26. 14. Benajah a Priest son of Iehojadah was one of David's twelve Captaines being the third Captain of the host for a moneth and in his Course consisting of 2400 was his son Amizabad Benajah also was of David's principal Worthies having the name among the three Mighties He was also Captain of the guard to David and after the death of Ioab he was made Lord General of the Host by King Solomon in Ioabs room 1 Kings 22. 35. So and much rather may a Clergy men now be an Officer in great place or a Justice of Peace in the Country who handles Matters of Equity and good Conscience for preserving of publick peace order and quietness among neighbours wherein happen many businesses that depend much upon the Conscience of a Justice and the Equitable rules of Scripture whereof Clergy men are the most competent interpreters As also many Causes happen touching the Estates and persons of the Clergy who have little reason to be subject onely to secular Judges without some of their own tribe on the bench to see fair carriage and indifferent dealing But for matters of Religion concerning God and his Worship and difficult points of Divinity the Clergy then were and so ought now to be the principal men to be imployed as may clearly appear by the doings of K. David about removing of the Ark to the place that he had provided for it upon which text King Iames hath written a very pious and excellent Meditation Pag. 81. upon the 1 Chron. 15. some of those words are fit to be here recited When the Ark of God whereunto they sought not in the dayes of Saul had continued long at Kiriah-jearim David out of his Zeal and Piety was moved to prepare a Tent for it in the City of David and when he began to remove it he called a great assembly of principal Men but did not make that use of the Priests and Levites as he ought to have done and therefore the Action prospered not but there happened a terrible judgment upon Uzzah which hindered the progresse of the good work and David was afraid of God that day saying How shall I bring the Ark of God home to me so the Ark rested in the House of Obed-Edom But afterwards upon better advice David perceived his Errour and confesseth it Cap. 15. 12 13. Speaking to the Chief of the Priests and Levites Sanctify your selves both ye and your brethren that you may bring up the Ark of the Lord God For because you did it not at the first the Lord God made a breach upon us for we sought him not after the due order This was a great and a godly work that was then intended and therefore King David called a great Assembly about it 1. Of the Elders of Israel 2. Of the Captaines of thousands and hundreds whose Names and Praises are recorded 3. The Priests and Levites Who did it not at the first But now upon better advice King David assembled at first the Children of Aaron and the Levites v. 4. So that men of all Estates were now present in this godly work This is to be marked well of Princes and of all those of any high Calling or Degree that have to do in Gods Cause David doth nothing in matters pertaining to God without the presence and especiall Concurrence of Gods Ministers appointed to be spiritual rulers in Gods Church And at the first meant to convay the same Ark to Ierusalem finding their absence and want of their Counsel hurtful therefore he saith to them Ye are the Chief Fathers of the Levites because ye did it not at the first Thus saith King Iames of blessed memory but

which is all I shall say of the duty of ministers in point of divinity Now I come to the second duty of men in holy orders in point of conveniency or policy and am clearly of opinion that even in this regard and reflexion they ought not to be debarred from modestly intermedling in secular affairs For if there be any such inconveniency it must needs arise from this that to exercise some secular jurisdiction must be evil in it self or evil to a person in holy orders Which is neither so nor so For the whole office of a subordinate civil Magistrate is most exactly described in Rom. 13. 3 4. and no man can add or detract from the same The civil power is a divine ordinance set up to be a Terror to the evil and an incouragement to good works This is the whole compass of the civil power And therefore I do here demand with that most learned Bishop Davenant that within a few dayes did sit by my side in the eleventh Question of his Determinations What is there of impiety what of unlawfulnesse what unbecoming either the holynesse or calling of a priest in terrifying the bad or comforting the good Subject in repressing of sin and punishing of sinners For this is the whole and intire Act of civil jurisdiction It is in its own nature repugnant to no person to no function to no sort or condition of men let them hold themselves never so holy never so seraphical it becomes them very well to repress sin and punish sinners that is to say to exercise in a moderate manner civil jurisdiction if the Soveraign shall require it And you shall find that this doctrine of debarring persons in holy orders from secular imployments is no doctrine of the Reformed but the Popish Church and first brought into this Kingdome by the Popes of Rome and Lambiths Lanfranc Anselme Stephen Langton and the test together with Otho and Othobon and to this only end that the man of Rome might withdraw all the Clergy of this Kingdome from their obligations to the King and Nobility who were most of them great Princes in those times and thereby might establish and create as in a great part he did regnum in regno a Kingdome of Sha●elings in the midst of this Kingdome of England And hence came those Canons of mighty consequence able to shoot up a priest at one shot into heaven as that he must not meddle with matters of blood that he must not exercise civil jurisdiction not be a Steward to a Noble man in his house and all the rest of this Palea and Garbage That is in plain English the Priest must no longer receive obligations from either King or Lords but wholly depend upon his holy Fathers the Pope of Rome and the Pope of Lambeth or at least wise pay him soundly for their Dis ensations and Absolutions when they presume to do the contrary In the mean time here is not one word or shew of Reason to inform an understanding man that persons in holy orders ought not to terrifie the bad and comfort the good to repress sin and chastise sinners which is the summa totalis of the civil Magistracy and consequently so fat forth at the least to intermeddle with secular affairs And this is all that I shall say touching the motive and ground of this Bill and that persons in holy orders ought not to be inhibited from intermedling in secular affairs either in point of divinity or in point of conveniency and policy The second point consists of the persons reflected upon in this Bill which are Archbishops Bishops Parsons Vicars and all others in holy orders of which point I shall say little only finding these names hudled up in an heap made me conceive at first that it might have some relation to Mr. Bagshawes reading in the middle Temple which I ever esteemed to have been very inoffensively delivered by that learned Gentleman and with little discretion questioned by a great Ecclesiastick then in place For all that he said was this That when the Temporal Lords are more in voices then the Spiritual they may passe a Bill without consent of the Bishops which is an assertion so clear in reason and so often practised upon the Records and Rolls of Parliament that no man any way vers'd in either of these can make any doubt of it nor do I Though I humbly conceive no President will be ever found that the Prelates were ever excluded otherwise then by their own folly fear or headinesse For the point of being Justices of peace the Gentleman confesseth he never medled with Arch-bishops nor Bishops nor with any Clergy man made a Justice by his Majesties Commission In the Statute made 34. Ed. 3. c. 1. He finds assignees for the keeping of the Peace one Lord and with him 3. or 4. of the most valiant men of the County the troublesome times did then so require it and if God do not bless us with the riddance of these two armies the like provision will be now as necessary He finds these men included but doth not find Church-men excluded no not in the Statute 13. Rich. 2. cap. 7. that requires Justices of peace to be made of Knights Esquires and Gentlemen of the Law of the most sufficient of each County In which words the Gentleman thinks Clerks were not included and I clearly say by his favour they are not excluded Nor do the learned Sages of the Law conceive them to be excluded by that Statute If the King shall command the Lord Keeper to fill up the Commissions of each County with the most sufficient Knights Esquires and Gentlemen of the Law shall the Lord Keeper thereupon exclude the Noble-men and the Prelates I have often in my dayes received this Command but never heard of this interpretation before this time So that I cannot conceive from what ground this general sweep-stake of Arch-bishops Bishops Parsons Vicars and all others in holy orders should proceed I have heard since the beginning of my sicknesse that it hath been alledged in this House that the Clergy in the sixth of Edw. the third did disavow that the custody of the peace did belong to them at all and I beleive that such a thing is to be found amongst the Notes of the priviledges of this House But first you must remember that it was in a great storm and when the waters were much troubled and the wild people unapt to be kept in orders by Miters and Crosiersstaves But yet if that noble Lord shall be pleased to cast his eye upon the Roll it self he shall find that this poor excuse did not serve the Prelates turns Fot they were compelled with a witnesse to defend their parts of the preservation of the peace of the Kingdome as well as the Noble men and Gentry And you shall find the ordinance to this effect set down upon that Roll. I conclude therefore with that Noble Lords favour that the sweeping