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A69047 A dialogue betwixt Cosmophilus and Theophilus anent the urging of new ceremonies upon the kirke of Scotland Calderwood, David, 1575-1650, attributed name.; Murray, John, 1575?-1632, attributed name. 1620 (1620) STC 4355; ESTC S114406 21,825 48

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Theophile your former formes must to the doore Theoph. Sure then Cosm. yours must fly in at the window For ye have no lawfull warrant to bring them in in the roome of so old and kindly possessors who have all your lyfrent takes sworne and subscribed to them to stand sure under the penaltie of that dreadful damnation in the great day of the Lord. Beside in so doing shall yee not undergoe the guiltinesse of double perjurie by the violent ejection of the one which were sworn to and the fraudulent and forcible intrusion of the other which were sworn against Cosm. Ye aggreage the matter strangely Theoph. in making it both sinfull and hurtfull Theoph. I will add the third also Cosm. shameful Consider that worthy example of good Abraham and yee shall see that and more Gen. 14. 22. 23. When the king of Sodom offred to him the goods which he brought back after battell against the Kings he refused to receive them and why I have lift up my hand sayes Abraham to the Lord the most high God the possessor of heaven that I should so doe and wherefore that lest the King of Sodom should say I have made Abraham rich Abraham thought that had been to him a great discredit and shamefull slander Now have we not all lift up our hand to this LORD the most high GOD possessor of heaven and earth that we shall continue in the maintenance and obedience of these comely and customable formes of our Kirk and not to borrow beg or bring back again these formes abhorred and abjured lest beside both sinne and skaith to our great disgrace and shame it should also be sayd The Antichristian King of spirituall Sodom hath enriched or rather bewitched us Cosm. I will leave now the purpose of the oath Theoph. and come to the persons whō it concerns Howsoever it would seem that these who have personally taken it cannot be freed from the bonds of it yet ye know such as were not come to perfect yeares at that time who have never personally taken it as also the succeding posterity are not bound by it Theoph. Indeed Cosm. to passe by the professors whose case is alike with preachers there are few either among our Ministers or among your Bishops who are not personally bound both when they passed their course in the Colledges of Philosophy and when they entred in the office of the Ministery beside the renewing of these bands sundry times since in particular synods and Assemblies As to these forenamed who have not personally taken it or in time comming shall not they are bound really Because this bond of their parents and predecessors who at that time represented the whole body and all sorts of the members of our reformed Kirk as upon their parts it was personall so also it was reall passing to their children being about a matter which concerned their good and welfare as well as theirs who took the oath Now to cleare this poynt Cosm If that oath of Israel to the Gibeonites bound old and yong parents and posterity in a matter more private and of lesse importance albeit the oath was obtained by craft and ignorance much more doth this oath binde in a matter so publick so profitable and with such knowledge conscience d●liberation resolution and perswasion made unto God Cosm. That oath of Israel Theoph. concerned this present life but this oath concernes our religion and the life to come so they are not alike Theoph. It is true Cosm. the two lives are not alike But as for the oath if the band of it hold fast an●nt the one and the matters belonging thereto tell me by what reason it should not far more hold in things concerning the other If even common civil bands or worldly contracts without an oath binds parents and predecessors who make it and children and post●rity who made it not much more should this religious contract and holy covenant sealed both with oath and subscription binde both to the constant profession and practise of that truth which is according to godlinesse Did not that religious vow which Iosua made chap. 24. 14. I and my fathers house sayes he will serve the Lord bind not onely those who were present but even his posteritie through their generations Did not that stone which Iosua set up as a witnesse of the covenant which the people did make to for sake all strange Gods and to serve the Lord vers 26. continue a witnesse of the transgression of children and posterity who after Iosua and all the Elders that out-lived him were dead brake that covenant and served Baalim Iud. 2. 12. Did not likewise that solemne oath and covenant made by Asa King of Iuda and his people that they would seek and serve God 2. Chron. 15. bind all old and yong parents and posterity among whom whosoever afterward fell away were even guilty of the breach of this particular oath and covenant as well as of the generall covenant to be Gods people Here are in the like case like examples Cosm. I grant Theoph. your reasons move me almost to be of your minde Theoph. I would wish Cosm. your almost were altogether And now in end I intreat you seeing an oath should be the end of all controversie Heb. 6. that ye would once end all cōtroversie about this oath and as ever yee would dwell in the mountaine of God learn to make greater conscience in keeping the great oath of God Beware of dangerous and damnable jugglery to play fast and loose with this so holy and religious a band Remember and consider that fearfull example of Ezekiah king of Iudah 2. Chron. 36. 13. who breaking that oath which hee made by God to the King of Babel but a man but an Ethnick man received such an hard and heavy challenge and threatning from the Lord by his Prophet Ezekiel cap. 17. 18. 19. As I live sayth the Lord I will surely bring my oath that he hath despised and my covenant that he hath brok●n upon his own head O! may not they look for the like challenge one day or a heavier who doe wittingly and willingly break that covenant and ●espise that oath made by God himself to God himselfe Cosm. Now come to your second impediment Theoph. which you call the credit of their ministry What will you have them to stand upon the poynts of their reputation Theoph. Surely Cosm. as Men I say nothing but as Ministers I say they should For if they lose the credit of their calling they lose also the fruit of their labours in it If they in publick preaching shall turn their tongues and allow those as lawfull and religious rites which before they condemned as Romish reliques may it not be justly sayd that their preaching is not yea and Amen but yea and nay 2. Cor. 18. 20. Will not the simple people say what shall we beleeve now when one and the selfe same tongue speakes contraries from the chaire of truth Will not the
of bodily or country libertie will follow by warding confining or banishment Theoph. O inconvenient ceremonies which drawe after them such inconveniences I see it is a just complaint which many worthy divines take up against them affirming that these indifferent ceremonies as yee call them have bred greater difference and division in the kirk and yet do then the doctrine it selfe They have ever been as the story of the Kirk in all ages reports that apple of contention cast in by that old and subtile Serpent which hath vexed the Paradise of God Therefore would to God say they that the Kirk were once rid and freed of them Cosm. Tush Theoph. they will be and will abide in the Kirk when ye and I both are dead rotten Theoph. I hope yee shall prove a false Prophet Cosm. and if so be what shall I say offences must come but woe unto them by whom they come Heresies schismes and troubles must be that they vvho are approved of God may be known 1. cor 11 Cosm. But answer to the poynt Theoph. I perceive yee would fain shift it Theoph. I confesse I vvould faine shift your ill if I could but not an answer to you I vvould understand by vvhat reason yee can enforce obedience to these things And if not by what equitie ye can bind their punishments upon their backe● in case of non-obedience Cosmoph It is sufficient that king and kirk will have it so Theoph. It is not will Cosmoph but reason that I crave Gods vvill I know must aud should go for reason but mans vvill vvants that priviledge I have answered before sufficiently to that onely wil-argument or violent reason of yours Cosm. Think ye it not very equitable Theop. that the benefits of the Church be denied to those who deny obedience to the Church and that they may be justly fined in their purses vvho will not obey in their persons the command of the King and Kirk and last that they are unworthy of his Maj●sties favour or of a place of state in his kingdome vvho will not follow his practise and obey his precept Theoph. Not surely Cosm. For vvhat equity is it to deny the benefits of the Kirk to those vvho are both in and of the Kirk or to punish either in purse of person for obeying rather God then man As to vvorldly favour and places it is better to keep Gods favour then coilye mens better keepe peace in conscience then place in earthly kingdomes Cosm. Now I will leave the Professors and come to the Preachers It will go very hardly with them if they obey not For the Church will take their calling from them and close their mouth and the king their living and their liberty Theo. That is a hard saying indeed drawes with it a great hinderance to the free course of Christs Evangell and a furtherance to the Antichristian course Yet if so shal be the comfort of faithfull Preachers is that no creature is able to take a good conscience the love of God and the liberty of the Spirit from them But I will aske what kirk is this of yours that will close up the mouthes of the faithfull servants of Christ. The good people it cannot be for they heavily regrate such iniquity The faithfull Pastors it cannot bee for in none of their meetings generall provinciall or presbyteriall have they allowed such work So it rests that your Bishops must bee this crabbed Kirk who being once so solemnly banished out of our Kirk as belonging to that Antichristian crew hath cropen back againe upon us and minds after this manner to revenge the old quarrel Alas Cosm. if they proceed after that fort how shall the rooms of honest Preachers be supplied Cosm. Ye may be sure Theoph. they wil get anew to fill their rooms Theoph. There may be anew Cosm. and yet little worth who will rather defile their roomes then fill them who will love the fleece better then the flock who will study more to be Patrons of Episcopacie ceremonies to please the Bishops then paternes of pietie charitie and sobriety to profite the people Cosm. But ye must consider more deeply of this matter Theoph. ye must not think that your Ministers should leave their calling and forsake their flock for such things that wil be an ill and ungodly doing Theoph. Ye mistake the matter very farr Cosmop for they are not leavers of their calling but your Bishops are reavers of their calling from them They are not forsakers of their flockes but your Bishops are wilfull and violent ruggers of them from their flock They are patients not agents sufferers of violence and not actors in that wickednesse who would rather leave and forsake their lives if it lay in their hands Your Bishops indeed Cosm. for their worldly ease profit and preferment in effect willingly have left their former calling or pastorall charge and violently thrust honest men out of their places because they will not allow their evill course Cosm. Nay but they should not suffer themselves to be deprived of their ministery and loose the exercise therof for matters of this indifferent nature Theoph. Ye must confesse then Cos. that farr lesse should your Bishops whose words these are d●prive them from their ministery for matters of that indifferent nature and if they doe they are damned of them own selves Tit. 3. 11. They avow and argue them to be matters indifferent but they urge them as matters of necessity and lay upon their omission the pain of deprivation Therefore our faithfull Pastors who count them not indifferent may lawfully suffer themselves rather to be deprived from their calling then deprive themselves of a good conscience by doing any thing against it Cosm. Let alone Theoph. I tell you over again it is better for them to yield to these things then to loose their ministery or the exercise of it Theoph. They loose no ministery Cosm. who keep a good conscience and give testimony by suffering to Christs cause that is a speciall poynt of their ministery when they are called to it They stand in the reputation of GOD faithfull ministers let men account of them as they will As to the closing up of the exercise thereof ye may perceive how the contrary will fall out For the liberty taken from them in their own parishes by mens malice is given to them in prison or banishment by Gods providence Albeit they be cast in bands or under banishment yet Gods word is not bound nor banished C. Beside the former wil ye consider Theo. their inconveniences also they will loose their worldly moyen and maintenance and this yland will not keep them Theoph. Will yee consider Cosm. that the earth and the fulnesse therof is the Lords and that this Iland is but a silly angle of it If it cast them out and close the doore upon them their provident and gracious Lord who hath called them will care for them and open in forrain