five parts of six have been alienated and mostly is come into the same hands with those of the King and Peers have inherited likewise according to the course of nature their Power But being kept from it by the established Government which not being changed by any lawfull Acts of State remains still in being formally whereas virtually it is abolished so that for want of outward Orders and Provisions the people are kept from the Exercise of that Power which is faln to them by the Law of Nature and those who cannot by that Law pretend to the share they had do yet enjoy it by vertue of that Right which is now ceased as having been but the natural Effect of a Cause that is no longer in being and you know sublata causa tollitur I cannot say that the greater part of the people do know this their condition but they find very plainly that they want something which they ought to have and this makes them lay often the blame of their unsetledness upon wrong causes but however are altogether unquiet and restless in the Intervals of Parliament and when the King pleases to assemble one spend all their time in Complaints of the Inexecution of the Law of the multiplication of an Infinity of Grievances of Mis-spending the Publick Monies of the danger our Religion is in by practices to undermine it and the State by endeavours to bring in Arbitrary Power and in questioning great Officers of State as the Causers and Promoters of all these Abuses in so much that every Parliament seems a perfect State of War wherein the Commons are tugging and contending for their Right very justly and very honourably yet without coming to a Point So that the Court sends them packing and governs still worse and worse in the Vacancies being necessitated thereunto by their despair of doing any good in Parliament and therefore are forced to use horrid shifts to subsist without it and to keep it off without ever considering that if these Counsellers understood their Trade they might bring the Prince and People to such an Agreement in Parliament as might repair the broken and shipwrack'd Government of England and in this secure the Peace Quiet and Prosperity of the People the Greatness and Happiness of the King and be themselves not only out of present danger which no other course can exempt them from but be Renowned to all Posterity Noble Ven. I beseech you Sir how comes it to pass that neither the King nor any of his Counsellors could ever come to find out the truth of what you discourse for I am fully convinced it is as you say Eng. Gent. I cannot resolve you that but this is certain they have never endeavoured a Cure though possibly they might know the Disease as searing that though the Effects of a Remedy would be as was said very advantagious both to King and People and to themselves yet possibly such a Reformation might not consist with the Merchandize they make of the Princes Favour nor with such Bribes Gratuities and Fees as they usually take for the dispatch of all Matters before them And therefore our Counsellors have been so far from suggesting any such thing to their Master that they have opposed and quashed all Attempts of that kind as they did the worthy Proposals made by certain Members of that Parliament in the beginning of King James's Reign which is yet called the Undertaking Parliament These Gentlemen considering what we have been discoursing of viz. That our old Government is at an end had framed certain Heads which if they had been proposed by that Parliament to the King and by him consented to would in their Opinion have healed the Breach and that if the King would perform his part that House of Commons would undertake for the Obedience of the People They did believe that if this should have been moved in Parliament before the King was acquainted with it it would prove Abortive and therefore sent three of their number to his Majesty Sir James a Croft Grandfather or Father to the present Bishop of Hereford Thomas Harley who was Ancestor to the Honourable Family of that Name in Herefordshire and Sir Henry Nevill who had been Ambassador from Queen Elizabeth to the French King These were to open the matter at large to the King and to procure his leave that it might be proposed in Parliament which after a very long Audience and Debate that wise Prince consented to with a promise of Secresie in the mean time which they humbly begged of His Majesty However this took Vent and the Earl of Northampton of the House of Howard who ruled the Rost in that time having knowledg of it engaged Sir R. Weston afterwards Lord Treasurer and Earl of Portland to impeach these Undertakers in Parliament before they could move their matters which he did the very same day accompanying his Charge which was endeavouring to alter the established Government of England with so eloquent an Invective that if one of them had not risen and made the House acquainted with the whole Series of the Affair they must have been in danger of being impeached by the Commons but however it broke their designe which was all that Northampton and Weston desired and prevented Posterity from knowing any of the Particulars of this Reformation for nothing being moved nothing could remain upon the Journal So that you see our Predecessors were not ignorant altogether of our condition though the Troubles which have befallen this poor Kingdom since have made it much more apparent for since the Determination of that Parliament there has not been one called either in that King's Reign or his Son 's or since that hath not been dissolved abruptly whilst the main businesses and those of most concern to the publick were depending and undecided And although there hath happened in this Interim a bloody War which in the Close of it changed the whole Order and Foundation of the Polity of England and that it hath pleased God to restore it again by his Majesty's happy Return so that the old Government is alive again yet it is very visible that its deadly Wound is not healed but that we are to this day tugging with the same difficulties managing the same Debates in Parliament and giving the same disgusts to the Court and hopes to the Country which our Ancestors did before the Year 1640. whilst the King hath been forced to apply the same Remedy of Dissolution to his two first Parliaments that his Father used to his four first and King James to his three last contrary to his own visible Interest and that of his people and this for want of having Counsellors about him of Abilities and Integrity enough to discover to him the Disease of his Government and the Remedy which I hope when we meet to Morrow Morning you will come prepared to enquire into for the Doctor says he will advise you to go take the Air this afternoon in your
excellent Patriots perished by Treachery in the beginning of his Enterprize the other began and went on with incomparable Prudence and Resolution but miscarried afterwards by the Iniquity of the times and baseness and wickedness of the People so infalliably true it is That where the Policy is corrupted there must necessarily be also a corruption and depravation of Manners and an utter abolition of all Faith Justice Honour and Morality but I forget my self and intrench upon your Province there is nothing now remains to keep you from the Modern Policies but that you please to shut up this Discourse of the Ancient Governments with saying something of the Corruptions of Aristocracy and Democracy for I believe both of us are satisfied that you have abundantly proved you Assertion and that when we have leisure to examine all the States or Policies that ever were we shall find all their Changes to have turn'd upon this Hinge of Property and that the fixing of that with good lawes in the beginning or first Institution of a state and the holding to those Lawes afterwards is the only way to make a Commonwealth Immortal Eng. Gent. I think you are very right but I shall obey you and do presume to differ from Aristotle in thinking that he has not fitly called those extreams for so I will stile them of Aristocracy and Democracy Corruptions for that they do not proceed from the alteration of Property which is the Vnica corruptio politica For Example I do not find that Oligarchy or Government of a few which is the Extream of an Optimacy ever did arise from a few Mens getting into their hands the Estates of all the rest of the Nobility For had it began so it might have lasted which I never read of any that did I will therefore conclude that they were all Tyrannies for so the Greeks called all Usurpations whether of one or more persons and all those that I ever read of as they came in either by Craft or violence as the Thirty Tyrants of Athens the Fifteen of Thebes and the Decem-viri of Rome though these are first came in lawfully so they were soon driven out and ever were either assassinated or dyed by the Sword of Justice and therefore I shall say no more of them not thinking them worth the name of a Government As for the Extream of Democracy which is Anarchy it is not so for many Commonwealths have lasted for a good time under that Administration if I may so call a State so full of Confusion An Anarchy then is when the People not contented with their Share in the Administration of the Government which is the right of Approving or Disapproving of Lawes of Leagues and of making of War and Peace of Judging in all Causes upon an Appeal to them and chusing all manner of Officers will take upon themselves the Office of the Senate too in manageing Subordinate Matters of State Proposing Lawes Originally and assuming Debate in the Market place making their Orators their Leaders nay not content with this will take upon them to alter all the Orders of the Government when they please as was frequently practised in Athens and in the Modern State of Florence In both these Cities when ever any great person who could lead the People had a mind to alter the Government he call'd them together and made them Vote a Change In Florence they call'd it Chiamar il popolo a Parlamento e ripigliar lo Stato which is summoning the People into the Market-place to resume the Government and did then presently Institute a new one with new Orders new Magistracies and the like Now that which originally causes this Disorder is the admitting in the beginning of a Government or afterwards the meaner sort of People who have no Share in the Territory into an equal part of Ordering the Commonwealth these being less sober less considering and less careful of the Publick Concerns and being commonly the Major part are made the Instruments oft-times of the Ambition of the great ones and very apt to kindle into Faction but notwithstaning all the Confusion which we see under an Anarchy where the wisdom of the better sort is made useless by the fury of the People yet many Cities have subsisted hundreds of years in this condition and have been more considerable and performed greater Actions than ever any Government of equal Extent did except it were a well-regulated Democracy But it is true they ruine in the end and that never by Cowardize or baseness but by too much boldness and temerarious undertakings as both Athens and Florence did The first undertaking the Invasion of Sicily when their Affairs went ill elsewhere and the other by provoking the Spaniard and the Pope But I have done now and shal pass to say something of the Modern Policies Noble Ven. Before you come to that Sir pray satisfie me in a Point which I should have moved before but that I was unwilling to interrupt you rational Discourse How came you to take it for granted that Moses Theseus and Romulus were Founders of Popular Governments As for Moses we have his Story written by an Infalliable Pen Theseus was ever called King of Athens though he liv'd so long since that what is written of him is justly esteem'd fabulous but Romulus certainly was a King and that Government continued a Monarchy though Elective under seven Princes Eng. Gent. I will be very short in my Answer and say nothing of Theseus for the reason you are pleased to alledge But for Moses you may read in Holy Writ that when by God's Command he had brought the Israelites out of Egypt he did at first manage them by accquainting the People with the Estate of their Government which People were called together with the sound of a Trumpet and are termed in Scripture the Congregation of the Lord this Government he thought might serve their turn in their passage and that it would be time enough to make them a better when they were in possession of the Land of Canaan Especially having made them Judges and Magistrates at the instance of his Father-in-law which are called in Authors Proefecti Jethroniani but finding that this Provision was not sufficient complained to God of the difficulty he had to make that State of Affairs hold together God was pleased to order him to let seventy Elders be appointed for a Senate but yet the Congregation of the Lord continued still and acted And by the severall soundings of the Trumpets either the Senate or popular Assembly were called together or both so that this Government was the same with all other Demooracies consisting of a Principal Magistrate a Senate and a People Assembled together not by Represention but in a body Now for Romulus it is very plain that he was no more then the first Officer of the Commonwealth whatever he was called and that he was chosen as your Doge is for Life and when the last of those seven
had no Yeomen but all are either Noble or Villains therefore the Lands must have been Originally given as they now remain into the hands of these Nobles But I will come to the Administration of the Government in these Countries and first say wherein they all agree or did at least in their institution which is That the Soveraign power is in the States assembled together by the Prince in which he presides these make Laws Levy Money Redress Grievances punish great Officers and the like These States consist in some places of the Prince and Nobility onely as in Poland and anciently in France before certain Towns for the encouraging of Trade procured Priviledges to send Deputies which Deputies are now called the third Estate and in others consist of the Nobility and Commonalty which latter had and still have the same right to Intervene and Vote as the great ones have both in England Spain and other Kingdomes Doct. But you say nothing of the Clergy I see you are no great friend to them to leave them out of your Politicks Eng. Gent. The truth is Doctor 〈◊〉 could wish there had never been any 〈◊〉 the purity of Christian Religion as alsâ—… the good and orderly Government of thâ—… World had been much better provideâ—… for without them as it was in the Apostâ—…lical time when we heard nothing 〈◊〉 Clergy But my omitting their Reveâ—…end Lordships was no neglect for I meaâ—… to come to them in order for you know that the Northern People did not bring Christianity into these parts but found it here and were in time converted to it so that there could be no Clergy at the first but if I had said nothing at all of this Race yet I had committed no Solecism in the Politicks for the Bishops and great Abbots intervened in the States here upon the same Foundation that the other Peers do viz. for their great possessions and the dependence their Tenants and Vassals have upon them although they being a People of that great sanctity and knowledg scorn â—o intermix so much as Titles with us â—rofane Lay-Ideots and therefore will â—e called Lords Spiritual But you will â—ave a very venerable opinion of them â—f you do but consider how they came â—y these great possessions which made â—hem claim a third part of the Governâ—ent And truely not unjustly by my â—…le for I believe they had no less at â—…e time than a third part of the Lands 〈◊〉 most of these Countries Noble Ven. Pray how did they acquire â—…ese Lands was it not here by the Charitable donation of pious Christians as it was elsewhere Eng. Gent. Yes certainly very pious men some of them might be well meaning people but still such as were cheated by these holy men who told them perpetually both in publick and private that they represented God upon Earth being Ordained by Authority from him who was his Viceroy here and that what was given to them was given to God and he would repay it largely both in this World and the next This wheedle made our barbarous Ancestors newly Instructed in the Christian Faith if this Religion may be called so and sucking in this foolish Doctrine more than the Doctrine of Christ so zealous to these Vipers that they would have pluckt out their eyes to serve them much more bestow as they did the fruitfullest and best situate of their possessions upon them Nay some they perswaded to take upon them their Callings vow Chastity and give all they had to them and become one of them amongst whom I believe they found no more sanctity than they left in the World But this is nothing to another trick they had which was to insinuate into the most notorious and execrable Villains with which that Age abounded Men who being Princes and other great Men for such were the Tools they work'd with had treacherously poisoned or otherwise murdered their nearest Relations Fathers Brothers Wives to reign or enjoy their Estates These they did perswade into a belief that if they had a desire to be sav'd notwithstanding their execrable Villanies they need but part with some of those great possessions which they had acquired by those acts to their Bishopricks or Monasteries and they would pray for their Souls and they were so holy and acceptable to God that he would deny them nothing which they immediately performed so great was the ignorance and blindness of that Age and you shall hardly find in the story of those times any great Monastery Abbey or other Religious House in any of these Countries I speak confidently as to what concerns our own Saxons that had not its Foundation from some such Original Doct. A worthy beginning of a worthy Race Noble Ven. Sir you maintain a strange Position here That it had been better there had been no Clergy Would you have had no Gospel preached no Sacraments no continuance of Christian Religion in the World or do you think that these things could have been without a Succession of the true Priesthood or as you call it of true Ministry by means of Ordination do's not your own Church hold the same Eng. Gent. You will know more of my Church when I have told you what I find the word Church to signifie in Scripture which is to me the only rule of Faith Worship and Manners neither do I seek these aditional helps of Fathers Councels or Ecclesiastical history much less Tradition for since it is said in the word of God it self That Antichrist did begin to work even in those days I can easily believe that he had brought his Work to some perfection before the word Church was by him applied to the Clergy I shall therefore tell you what I conceive that Church Clergy and Ordination signified in the Apostolical times I find then the word Church in the New Testament taken but in two sences the first for the Vniversal Invisible Church called sometimes of the First-born that is the whole number of the true Followers of Christ in the World where-ever resident or into what part soever dispersed The other signification of Church is an Assembly which though it be sometimes used to express any Meetings even unlawful tumultuous ones as well in Scripture as prophane Authors yet it is more frequently understood for a gathering together to the Duties of Prayer Preaching and Breaking of Bread and the whole Number so Congregated is both in the Acts of the Apostles and in their holy Epistles called the Church nor is there the least colour for appropriating that word to the Pastors and Deacons who since the Corruptions of Christian Religion are called Clergy which word in the Old Testament is used sometimes for Gods whole People and sometimes for the Tribe of Levi out of which the Priests were chosen for the word signifies a Lot so that Tribe is called Gods Lot because they had no share alotted them when the Land was divided but were to live upon Tythe and serve in the
functions of their Religion and be Singers Porters Butchers Bakers and Cooks for the Sacrifices c. So that this Tribe was stiled Clergy but figuratively and the Allegory passed into the New Testament where the Saints are sometimes called Clergy but never the Pastors or Deacons who were far from pretending in those days to come in the place of the Aaronical Priesthood The word Ordination in Scripture signifies lifting up of hands and is used first for the giving a Suffrage which in all popular Assemblies was done by stretching out the hand as it is in the Common-Hall of London In the next place it is applied to the Order or Decree made by the Suffrage so given which was then and is yet too in all Modern Languages called an Ordinance and the Suffrage it self Ordination which word proves that the first Christian Churches were Democratical that is That the whole Congregation had the Choice in this as well as the Soveraign Authority in all Excommunications and all other matters whatsoever that could occur for in all Aristocratical Commonwealths the word for choice is Keirothesia or Imposition of hands for so the Election of all Magistrates and Officers was made and not Keirotoniae These Pastors and other Officers did not pretend to be by virtue of such Choice of a peculiar profession different from other Men as their Followers have done since Antichrists Reign but were onely called and appointed by the Congregations approval of their gifts or parts to instruct or feed the Flock visit the sick and perform all other Offices of a true Minister that is Servant of the Gospel at other times they followed the business of their own Trades and Professions and the Christians in those times which none will deny to have been the purest of the Church did never dream that a true Pastor ought to pretend to any Succession to qualifie him for the Ministry of the word or that the Idle and Ridiculous Ceremonies used in your Church and still continued in that which you are pleased to call mine were any way essential or conducing to Capacitate a person to be a true Preacher or Dispencer of the Christian Faith And I cannot sufficiently admire why our Clergy who very justly refuse to believe the Miracle which is pretended to be wrought in Transubstantiation because they see both the Wafer and the Wine to have the same Substance and the same Accidents after the Priest has mumbled words over those Elements as they had before and yet will believe that the same kind of Spell or Charm in Ordination can have the Efficacy to Metamorphose a poor Lay-Ideot into a Heavenly Creature notwithstanding that we find in them the same humane Nature and the same Necessities of it to which they were subject before such Transformation nay the same Debauch Profanness Ignorance and Disability to preach the Gospel Noble Ven. Sir this discourse is very new to me I must confess I am much inclined to joyn with you in believing that the power Priests Exercise over Mankind with the Jurisdiction they pretend to over Princes and States may be a usurpation but that they should not have a Divine Call to serve at the Altar or that any person can pretend to perform those Sacred Functions without being duly Ordained seems very strange Eng. Gent. I am not now to discourse of Religion it is never very civil to do so in Conversation of persons of a different belief neither can it be of any benefit towards a Roman Catholick for if his Conscience should be never so cleerly convinc'd he is not yet Master of his own Faith having given it up to his Church of whom he must ask leave to be a Convert which he will be sure never to obtain But if you have the Curiosity when you come amongst the learned in your own Country for amongst our Ordination-Mongers there is a great scarcity of Letters and other good Parts you may please to take the Bible which you acknowledg to be the Word of God as well as we and intreat some of them to shew you any passage the plain and genuine sense of which can any way evince this Succession this Ordination or this Priesthood we are now speaking of and when you have done if you will let your own excellent Reason and Discourse judg and not your Priest who is too much concerned in point of Interest I make no doubt but you will be convinced that the pretence to the dispensing of Divine things by virtue of a humane Constitution and so ridiculous a one too as the Ordination practised by your Bishops and ours who descend and succeed from one and the same Mother is as little Justifiable by Scripture and Reason and full as great a Cheat and Vsurpation as the Empire which the Ecclesiasticks pretend to over the Consciences and persons of men and the Exemption from all Secular power Noble Ven. Well Sir though neither my Faith nor my Reason can come up to what you hold yet the Novelty and the grace of this Argument has delighted me extreamly and if that be a Sin as I fear it is I must confess it to my Priest but I ask your pardon first for putting you upon this long Deviation Eng. Gent. Well this Digression is not without its use for it will shorten our business which is grown longer than I thought it would have been for I shall mention the Clergy no more but when-ever I speak of Peerage pray take notice that I mean both Lords Spiritual and Temporal since they stand both upon the same foot of Property But if you please I will fall immediately to discourse of the Government of England and say no more of those of our Neighbours than what will fall in by the way or be hinted to me by your Demands for the time runs away and I know the Doctor must be at home by noon where he gives daily charitable audience to an Infinity of poor people who have need of his help and who send or come for it not having the confidence to send for him since they have nothing to give him though he be very liberal too of his Visits to such where he has any knowledg of them But I spare his Modesty which I see is concerned at the Just Testimony I bear to his Charity The Soveraign Power of England then is in King Lords and Commons The Parliaments as they are now constituted that is the assigning a choice to such a Number of Burroughs as also the manner and form of Elections and Returns did come in as I suppose in the time of Henry the third where now our Statute-Book begins and I must confess I was inclined to believe that before that time our Yeomanry or commonalty had not formally assembled in Parliament but been virtually included and represented by the Peers upon whom they depended but I am fully convinced that it was otherwise by the learned Discourses lately publisht by Mr. Petit of the Temple
and Mr. Attwood of grays-Inne being Gentlemen whom I do mention honoris causa and really they deserve to be honor'd that they will spare some time from the Mechanical part of their Callings which is to assist Clients with Counsel and to plead their Causes and which I acknowledg likewise to be honourable to study the true Interest of their Country and to show how ancient the Rights of the People in England are and that in a time when neither Profit nor Countenance can be hop'd for from so ingenious an undertaking But I beg pardon for the deviation Of the three branches of Soveraign Power which Politicians mention which are Enacting Laws Levying of Taxes and making War and Peace the two first of them are indisputably in the Parliament and when I say Parliament I ever intend with the King The last has been usually exercis'd by the Prince if he can do it with his own Money yet because even in that Case it may be ruinous to the Kingdom by exposing it to an Invasion many have affirmed that such a Power cannot be by the true and ancient free Government of England supposed to be Intrusted in the hands of one man And therefore we see in divers Kings Reigns the Parliament has been Consulted and their advice taken in those matters that have either concerned War or Leagues And that if it has been omitted Addresses have been made to the king by Parliaments either to make war or peace according to what they thought profitable to the publick So that I will not determine whether that power which draws such consequences after it be by the genuine sence of our Laws in the Prince or no although I know of no Statute or written Record which makes it otherwise That which is undoubtedly the Kings Right or prerogative is to Call and Dissolve Parliaments to preside in them to approve of all Acts made by them and to put in Execution as Supream or Soveraign Magistrate in the Intervals of Parliaments and during their Sitting all Laws made by them as also the Common Law for which Cause he has the nomination of all Inferiour Officers and Ministers under him excepting such as by Law or Charter are eligible otherwise and the Power of the Sword to force Obedience to the Judgements given both in Criminal and Civil Causes Doct. Sir You have made us a very absolute Prince what have we left us if the King have all this Power what do our Liberties or Rights signifie whenever he pleases Eng. Gent. This Objection Doctor makes good what I said before that your skill did not terminate in the body natural but extend to the Politick for a more pertinent Interrogatory could never have been made by Plato or Aristotle In answer to which you may please to understand That when these Constitutions were first made our Ancestors were a plain-hearted well-meaning People without Court-reserves or tricks who having made choice of this sort of Government and having Power enough in their hands to make it take place did not foresee or imagine that any thoughts of Invading their Rights could enter into the Princes Head nor do I read that it ever did till the Norman Line came to Reign which coming in by Treaty it was obvious there was no Conquest made upon any but Harold in whose stead William the First came and would claim no more after his Victory than what Harold enjoy'd excepting that he might confiscate as he did those great men who took part with the wrong Title and French-men were put into their Estates which though it made in this Kingdom a mixture between Normans and Saxons yet produced no Change or Innovation in the Government the Norman Peers being as tenacious of their Liberties and as active in the recovery of them to the full as the Saxon Families were Soon after the death of William and possibly in his time there began some Invasions upon the Rights of the Kingdom which begat Grievances and afterwards Complaints and Discontents which grew to that height that the Peers were fain to use their Power that is Arm their Vassals to defend the Government whilest the Princes of that Age first King John and then Henry the Third got Force together The Barons call'd in Lewis the Dauphin whilst the King would have given away the Kingdom to the Sarazens as he did to the Pope and armed their own Creatures so that a bloody War ensued for almost forty years off and on as may be read in our History The success was that the Barons or Peers obtained in the close two Charters or Laws for the ascertaining their Rights by which neither their Lives Liberties or Estates could ever be in danger any more from any Arbitrary Power in the Prince and so the good Government of England which was before this time like the Law of Nature onely written in the hearts of Men came to be exprest in Parchment and remain a Record in Writing though these Charters gave us no more than what was our own before After these Charters were made there could not chuse but happen some encroachment upon them but so long as the Peers kept their greatness there was no breaches but what were immediately made up in Parliament which when-ever they assembled did in the first place confirm the Charters and made very often Interpretations upon them for the benefit of the People witness the Statute de Tallagio non concedendo and many others But to come nearer the giving the Doctor an answer you may please to understand that not long after the framing of these forementioned Charters there did arise a Grievance not foreseen or provided for by them and it was such an one that had beaten down the Government at once if it had not been Redressed in an Orderly way This was the Intermission of Parâ—iaments which could not be called but â—y the Prince and he not doing of it â—hey ceast to be Assembled for some years if this had not been speedily reâ—edied the Barons must have put on â—heir Armour again for who can Imaâ—ine that such brisk Assertors of their â—ights could have acquiesced in an Omission that ruin'd the Foundation of the Government which consisting of King Lords and Commons and having at that time Marched near Five hundred years upon three Leggs must then have gone on hopping upon one which could it have gone forward as was impossible whilest Property continued where it was yet would have rid but a little way Nor can it be wonder'd at that our great Men made no provision against this Grievance in their Charters because it was impossible for them to imagine that their Prince who had so good a share in this Government should go about to destroy it and to take that burden upon himself which by our Constitution was undeniably to be divided between him and his Subjects And therefore divers of the great Men of those times speaking with that excellent Prince King Edward the First about it
Grievances and making provision for the future execution of the Lawes and whenever it is applyed to frustrate those ends it is a violation of Right and infringement of the King's Coronation-Oath in which there is this Clause That he shall Confirmare consuetudines which in the Latine of those times is leges quas vulgus elegerit I know some Criticks who are rather Grammarians than Lawyers have made a distinction between elegerim and elegero and will have it That the King Swears to such Laws as the people shall have chosen and not to those they shall chuse But in my Opinion if that Clause had been intended onely to oblige the King to execute the Laws made already it might have been better exprest by servare consuctudines than by confirmare consuetudines besides that he is by another clause in the same Oath sworn to execute all the Laws But I shall leave this Controversie undecided those who have a desire to see more of it may look into those quarrelling Declarations pro and con about this matter which preceded our unhappy Civil Wars This is certain that there are not to be found any Statutes that have passed without being presented to his Majesty or to some commissioned by him but whether such Addresses were intended for Respect and Honour to His Majesty as the Speaker of the House of Commons and the Lord Mayor of London are brought to him I leave to the Learned to Discourse onely thus much we may affirm That there never were yet any Parliamentary Requests which did highly concern the Publick presented to any King and by him refused but such denials did produce very dismal effects as may be seen in our Histories ancient and late it being certain that both the Barons Wars and our last dismal Combustions proceeded from no other cause than the denial of the Princes then reigning to consent to the desires of the States of the Kingdom and such hath been the wisdom and goodness of our present gracious Prince that in twenty years and somewhat more for which time we have enjoy'd him since his happy Restauration he hath not exercis'd his Negative Voice towards more than one publick Bill and that too was to have continued in force if it had passed into an Act but for six Weeks being for raising the Militia for so long time and as for the private Bills which are matters of meer grace it is unreasonable his Majesty should be refused that Right that every Englishman enjoys which is not to be obliged to dispence his favours but where he pleases But for this point of the Negative Vote it is possible that when we come to Discourse of the Cure of our Political Distemper some of you will propose the clearing and explanation of this matter and of all others which may concern the King's Power and the Peoples Rights Noble Ven. But pray Sir have not the House of Peers a Negative Voice in all Bills how come they not to be obliged to use it for the Publick Good Eng. Gent So they are no doubt and the Commons too but there is a vast difference between a deliberative Vote which the Peers have with their Negative and that in the Crown to blast all without deliberating The Peers are Co-ordinate with the Commons in presenting and hammering of Laws and may send Bills down to them as well as receive any from them excepting in matters wherein the People are to be Taxed and in this our Government imitates the best and most perfect Commonwealths that ever were where the Senate assisted in the making of Laws and by their wisdom and dexterity polisht fil'd and made ready things for the more populous Assemblies and sometimes by their gravity and moderation reduced the People to a Calmer State and by their authority and credit stem'd the Tide and made the Waters quiet giving the People time to come to themselves And therefore if we had no such Peerage now upon the old Constitution yet we should be necessitated to make an artificial Peerage or Senate in stead of it which may assure our present Lords that though their Dependences and Power are gone yet that we cannot be without them and that they have no need to fear an annihilation by our Reformation as they suffered in the late mad times But I shall speak a word of the peoples Rights and then shew how this brave and excellent Government of England came to decay The People by the Fundamental Laws that is by the Constitution of the Government of England have entire freedome in their Lives Properties and their Persons nether of which can in the least suffer but according to the Laws already made or to be made hereafter in Parliament and duly publisht and to prevent any oppression that might happen in the execution of these good Laws which are our Birth-right all Tryals must be by twelve Men of our equals and of our Neighbourhood These in all Civil Causes judge absolutely and decide the matter of Fact upon which the matter of Law depends but if where matter of Law is in question these twelve Men shall refuse to find a special Verdict at the direction of the Court the Judge cannot Controul it but their Verdict must be Recorded But of these matters as also of Demurrers Writs of Errour and Arrests of Judgment c. I have discours'd to this Gentleman who is a Stranger before now neither do's the understanding of the Execution of our Municipal Laws at all belong to this discourse Onely it is to be noted that these Juries or twelve Men in all Trials or Causes which are Criminal have absolute Power both as to matter of Law and Fact except the Party by Demurrer confess the matter of Fact and take it out of their hands And the first question the Officer asks the Foreman when they all come in to deliver their Verdict is this Is he Guilty in manner or form as he is Indicted or not Guilty which shews plainly that they are to Examine and Judge as well whether and how far the Fact committed is Criminal as whether the person charged hath committed that Fact But though by the Corruption of these times the infallible consequences of a broken frame of Government this Office of the Juries and Right of Englishmen have been of late question'd yet it hath been strongly and effectually vindicated by a learned Author of late to whom I refer you for more of this matter I shall say no more of the Rights of the People but this one thing That neither the King nor any by Authority from him hath any the least Power or Jurisdiction over any Englishman but what the Law gives them and that although all Commissions and Writs go out in the King's name yet his Majesty hath no right to Issue out any Writ with advice of his Council or otherwise excepting what come out of his Courts nor to alter any Clause in a Writ or add any thing to it And
if any person shall be so wicked as to do any Injustice to the Life Liberty or Estate of any Englishman by any private command of the Prince the person agrieved or his next of kin if he be assassinated shall have the same remedy against the Offender as he ought to have had by the good Laws of this Land if there had been no such Command given which would be absolutely void and null and understood not to proceed from that Royal and lawful Power which is vested in his Majesty for the Execution of Justice and the protection of his People Doct. Now I see you have done with all the Government of England pray before you proceed to the decay of it let me ask you what you think of the Chancery whether you do not believe it a Solecism in the Politicks to have such a Court amongst a free People what good will Magna Charta the Petition of Right or St. Edwards Laws do us to defend our Property if it must be entirely subjected to the arbitrary disposal of one man whenever any impertinent or petulant person shall put in a Bill against you How inconsistent is this Tribunal with all that hath been said in defence of our rights or can be said Suppose the Prince should in time to come so little respect his own honour and the Interest of his People as to place a covetous or revengeful person in that great Judicatory what remedy have we against the Corruption of Registers who make what Orders they please Or against the whole Hierarchy of Knavish Clerks whilst not only the punishing and reforming misdemeanours depend upon him who may without controul be the most guilty himself but that all the Laws of England stand there arraigned before him and may be condemned when he pleases Is there or ever was there any such Tribunal in the World before in any Countrey Eng. Gent. Doctor I find you have had a Suit in Chancery but I do not intend to contradict or blame your Orthodox Zeal in this point This Court is one of those Buildings that cannot be repaired but must be demolished I could inform you how excellently matters of Equity are Administred in other Countries And this worthy Gentleman could tell you of the Venerable Quaranzia's in his City where the Law as well as the Fact is at the Bar and subject to the Judges and yet no complaint made or grievance suffered but this is not a place for it this is but the superstructure we must settle the foundation first every thing else is as much out of Order as this Trade is gone Suits are endless and nothing amongst us harmonious but all will come right when our Government is mended and never before though our Judges were all Angels this is the primum quaerite when you have this all other things shall be added unto you when that is done neither the Chancery which is grown up to this since our Ancestors time nor the Spiritual Courts nor the Cheats in trade nor any other abuses no not the Gyant Popery it self shall ever be able to stand before a Parliament no more than one of us can live like a Salamander in the fire Noble Ven. Therefore Sir pray let us come now to the decay of your Government that we may come the sooner to the happy restauration Eng. Gent. This harmonious Government of England being founded as has been said upon Property it was impossible it should be shaken so long as Property remain'd where it was placed for if when the ancient Owners the Britains fled into the Mountains and left their Lands to the Invaders who divided them as is above related they had made an Agrarian Law to fix it then our Government and by consequence our Happiness had been for ought we know Immortal for our Constitution as it was really a mixture of the three which are Monarchy Aristocracy and Democracy as has been said so the weight and predominancy remain'd in the Optimacy who possessed nine parts in ten of the Lands And the Prince but about a tenth part In this I count all the Peoples share to the Peers and therefore do not trouble my self to enquire what proportion was allotted to them for that although they had an Hereditary right in their Lands yet it was so clog'd with Tenures and Services that they depended as to publick matters wholly on their Lords who by them could serve the king in his Wars and in time of Peace by leading the people to what they pleased Could keep the Royal Power within its due bounds and also hinder and prevent the people from Invading the Rights of the Crown so that they were the Bulwarks of the Government which in effect was much more an Aristocracy than either a Monarchy or Democracy and in all Governments where Property is mixt the Administration is so too And that part which hath the greater share in the Lands will have it too in the Jurisdiction And so in Commonwealths the Senate or the People have more or less Power as they have more or fewer possessions as was most visible in Rome where in the beginning the Patricii could hardly bring the People to any thing but afterwards when the Asiatick Conquests had inricht the Nobility to that degree that they were able to purchase a great part of the Lands in Italy the People were all their Clients and easily brought even to cut the throats of their Redeemers the Gracchi who had carried a Law for restoring them their Lands But enough of this before I will not trouble my self nor you to search into the particular causes of this change which has been made in the possessions here in England but it is visible that the fortieth part of the Lands which were at the beginning in the hands of the Peers and Church is not there now besides that not only all Villanage is long since abolished but the other Tenures are so altered and qualified that they signifie nothing towards making the Yeomanry depend upon the Lords The consequence is That the natural part of our Government which is Power is by means of Property in the hands of the People whilest the artificial part or the Parchment in which the Form of Government is written remains the same Now Art is a very good servant and help to Nature but very weak and inconsiderable when she opposes her and fights with her it would be a very Impar congressus between Parchment and Power This alone is the cause of all the disorder you heard of and now see in England and of which every man gives a reason according to his own fancy whilest few hit the right cause some impute all to the decay of Trade others to the growth of Popery which are both great Calamities but they are Effects and not Causes And if in private Families there were the same causes there would be the same effects Suppose now you had five or six Thousand pounds a year as it is
probable you have and keep forty Servants and at length by your neglect and the industry and thrift of your Domesticks you sell one Thousand to your Steward another to your Clerk of the Kitchen another to your Bayliff till all were gone can you believe that these Servants when they had so good Estates of their own and you nothing left to give them would continue to live with you and to do their service as before It is just so with a whole Kingdom In our Ancestors times most of the Members of our House of Commons thought it an honour to retain to some great Lord and to wear his blew Coat And when they had made up their Lord's Train and waited upon him from his own House to the Lords House and made a Lane for him to enter and departed to sit themselves in the Lower House of Parliament as it was then and very justly called can you think that any thing could pass in such a Parliament that was not ordered by the Lords Besides these Lords were the King 's great Council in the Intervals of Parliaments and were called to advise of Peace and War and the latter was seldom made without the consent of the major part if it were not they would not send their Tenants which was all the Militia of England besides the King's tenth part Can it be believed that in those days the Commons should dislike any thing the Lords did in the Intervals or that they would have disputed their Right to receive Appeals from Courts of Equity if they had pretended to it in those days or to mend Money-bills And what is the reason but because the Lords themselves at that time represented all their Tenants that is all the People in some sort and although the House of Commons did Assemble to present their Grievances yet all great Affairs of high Importance concerning the Government was Transacted by the Lords and the War which was made to preserve it was called the Barons Wars not the War of both Houses for although in antienter times the word Baron were taken in a larger sense and comprehended the Francklins or Freemen yet who reads any History of that War shall not find that any mention is made of the concurrence of any assembly of such men but that Simon Monford Earl of Leicester and others of the great ones did by their Power and Interest manage that contest Now if this Property which is gone out of the Peerage into the Commons had passed into the King's hands as it did in Egypt in the time of Joseph as was before said the Prince had had a very easie and peaceable reign over his own Vassals and might either have refused justly to have Assembled the Parliament any more or if he had pleased to do it might have for ever managed it as he thought fit But our Princes have wanted a Joseph that is a wise Councellor and instead of saving their Revenue which was very great and their expences small and buying in those Purchases which the vast expences and luxury of the Lords made ready for them they have alienated their own Inheritance so that now the Crown-Lands that is the publick Patrimony is come to make up the interest of the Commons whilest the King must have a precarious Revenue out of the Peoples Purses and be beholding to the Parliament for his Bread in time of Peace whereas the Kings their Predecessors never asked Aid of his Subjects but in time of War and Invasion and this alone though there were no other decay in the Government is enough to make the King depend upon his People which is no very good condition for a Monarchy Noble Ven. But how comes it to pass that other Neighbouring Countries are in so settled a State in respect of England does their Property remain the same it was or is it come into the hands of the Prince You know you were pleased to admit that we should ask you en passant something of other Countries Eng. Gent. Sir I thank you for it and shall endeavour to satisfie you I shall say nothing of the small Princes of Germany who keep in a great measure their ancient bounds both of Government and Property and if their Princes now and then exceed their part yet it is in time of Troubles and War and things return into their right Chanel of Assembling the several States which are yet in being every where But Germany lying so exposed to the Invasion of the Turks on the one side and of the French on the other and having ever had enough to do to defend their several Liberties against the encroachments of the House of Austria in which the Imperial dignity is become in some fort Hereditary if there had been something of extraordinary power exercised of late years I can say Inter arma silent leges but besides their own particular States they have the Diet of the Empire which never fails to mediate and compose things if there be any great oppresson used by Princes to their subjects or from one Prince or State to another I shall therefore confine my self to the three great Kingdoms France Spain and Poland for as to Denmark and Sweden the first hath lately chang'd its Government and not only made the Monarchy Hereditary which was before Elective but has pull'd down the Nobility and given their Power to the Prince which how it will succeed time will shew Sweden remains in point of Constitution and Property exactly as it did anciently and is a well-Governed Kingdom The first of the other three is France of which I have spoken before and shall onely add That though it be very true that there is Property in France and yet the Government is Despotical at this present yet it is one of those violent States which the Grecians called Tyrannies For if a Lawfull Prince that is one who being so by Law and sworn to rule according to it breaks his Oaths and his Bonds and reigns Arbitrarily he becomes a Tyrant and an Usurper as to so much as he assumes more than the Constitution hath given him and such a Government being as I said violent and not natural but contrary to the Interest of the people first cannot be lasting when the adventitious props which support it fail and whilst it does endure must be very uneasie both to Prince and People the first being necessitated to use continual oppression and the latter to suffer it Doct. You are pleased to talk of the oppression of the People under the King of France and for that reason call it a violent Government when if I remember you did once to day extol the Monarchy of the Turks for well-founded and natural Are not the people in that Empire as much oppressed as in France Eng. Gent. By no means unless you will call it oppression for the grand Seignior to feed all his People out of the Product of his own Lands and though they serve him for it yet
himself to our Senate to Mediate with the Pope that a week might be set apart for a Jubilee and Fasting three days all over the Christian World to storm Heaven with Masses Prayers Fasting and Almes to prosper his Designs he began to open the Matter That the Cause of all the Wickedness and Sin and by Consequence of all the Miseries and Affliction which is in the World arising from the enmity which is between God and the Devil by which means God was often cross'd in his Intentions of good to Mankind here and hereafter the Devil by his temptations making us uncapable of the Mercy and Favour of our Creator therefore he had a Design with the helps before mentioned to mediate with Almighty God That he would pardon the Devil and receive him into his Favour again after so long a time of Banishment and Imprisonment and not to take all his power from him but to leave him so much as might do good to Man and not hurt which he doubted not but he would imploy that way after such reconciliation was made which his Faith would not let him question You may judge what the numerous Auditory thought of this I can only tell you that he had a different sort of Company at his return from what he had when he came for the Men left him to the Boys who with great Hoops instead of Acclamations brought him to the Gondola which conveyed him to the Redentor where he lodged And I never had the curiosity to enquire what became of him after Doct. I thank you heartily for this Intermess I see you have learnt something in England for I assure you we have been these twenty Years turning this and lal serious Discourses into Ridicule but yet your Similitude is very pat for in every Parliament that has been in England these sixty Years we have had notable Contests between the Seed of the Serpent and the Seed of the Woman Eng. Gent. Well Sir we have had a Michael here in our Age who has driven out Lucifer and restored the true Deity to his Power but where Omnipotency is wanting which differs the Frier's Case and mine the Devil of Civil War and Confusion may get up again if he be not laid by prudence and Vertue and better Conjurers than any we have yet at Court Noble Ven. Well Gentlemen I hope you have pardoned me for my Farce But to be a little more serious pray tell me how you will induce the King to give up so much of his Right as may serve your turn Would you have the Parliament make War with him again Eng. Gent. There cannot nor ought to be any Change but by his Majesty's free Consent for besides that a War is to be abhorred by all Men that love their Country any Contest of that kind in this case viz. to take away the least part of the Kings Right could be justified by no man living I say besides that a Civil War has miscarried in our days which was founded at least pretendedly upon Defence of the People's own Rights In which although they had as clear a Victory in the end as ever any Contest upon Earth had yet could they never reap the least advantage in the World by it but went from one Tyranny to another from Barebones Parliament to Cromwell's Reign from that to a Committee of Safety leaving those Grave Men who managed Affairs at the beginning amazed to see new Men and new Principles Governing England And this induced them to Co-operate to bring things back just where they were before the War Therefore this Remedy will be either none or worse than the Disease It not being now as it was in the Barons time when the Lord who led out his Men could bring them back again when he pleased and Rule them in the mean time being his Vassals But now there is no Man of so much Credit but that one who behaves himself bravely in the War shall out-vye him and possibly be able to do what he pleases with the Army and the Government And in this corrupt Age it is ten to one he will rather do Hurt than Good with the Power he acquires But because you ask me how we would perswade the King to this I answer by the Parliament's humbly Remonstrating to His Majesty that it is his own Interest Preservation Quiet and true Greatness to put an end to the Distractions of his Subjects and that it cannot be done any other way and to desire him to enter into debate with some Men Authorized by them to see if there can be any other means than what they shall offer to compose things if they find there may then to embrace it otherwise to insist upon their own Proposals and if in the end they cannot obtain those Requests which they think the only essential means to preserve their Country then to beg their Dismission that they may not stay and be partakers in the Ruin of it Now my Reasons why the King will please to grant this after the thorough discussing of it are two First Because all great Princes have ever made up Matters with their Subjects upon such Contests without coming to Extremities The two greatest and most Valiant of our Princes were Edward the First and his Grandchild Edward the Third these had very great Demands made them by Parliaments and granted them all as you may see upon the Statute-Book Edward the Second and Richard the Second on the contrary refused all things till they were brought to Extremity There is a Memorable Example in the Greek Story of Theopompus King of Sparta whose Subjects finding the Government in disorder for want of some Persons that might be a Check upon the great Power of the King proposed to him the Creation of the Ephores Officers who made that City so great and Famous afterwards The King finding by their Reasons which were unanswerable as I think ours now are that the whole Government of Sparta was near its Ruin without such a Cure and considering that he had more to lose in that Disorder than others freely granted their desires for which being derided by his Wife who asked him what a kind of Monarchy he would leave to his Son answered a very good one because it will be a very lasting one Which brings on my Second Reason for which I believe the King will grant these things because he cannot any way mend himself nor his Condition if he do not Noble Ven. You have very fully convinced me of two things First That we have no reason to expect or believe that the Parliament will ever increase the Kings Power And then that the King cannot by any way found himself a New and more absolute Monarchy except he can alâ—er the Condition of Property which I think we may take for granted to be impossible But yet I know not why we may not suppose that although he cannot establish to all Posterity such an Empire he may notwithstanding change the
a Regulation as this come in Debate amongst them the Parliament will reserve to it self the Approbation of the Great Officers as Chancellor Judges General Officers of an Army and the like and that such shall not have a settlement in those Charges till they are accordingly allowed of but may in the mean time exercise them As to particulars I shall always refer you to what the Parliament will judge fit to Order in the Case but if you have any thing to Object or to shew in general that some such Regulation as this cannot be effectual towards the putting our Distracted Country into better Order I shall think my self oblig'd to Answer you if you can have Patience to hear me and are not weary already as you may very well be Noble Ven. I shall certainly never be weary of such Discourse however I shall give you no further trouble in this matter for I am very fully satisfied that such Reformation if it could be compassed would not only Unite all Parties but make you very Flourishing at home and very Great abroad but have you any hopes that such a thing will ever come into Debate what do the Parliament-men say to it Eng. Gent. I never had any Discourse to this purpose either with any Lord or Member of the Commons house otherwise than as possibly some of these Notions might fall in at Ordinary Conversation For I do not intend to Intrench upon the Office of God to teach our Senatours Wisdom I have known some men so full of their own Notions that they went up and down sputtering them in every Mans Face they met some went to Great Men during our late troubles nay to the King himself to offer their Expedients from Revelation Two Men I was acquainted with of which one had an Invention to reconcile differences in Religion the other had a project for a Bank of Lands to lye as a Security for summs of Money lent both these were Persons of Great Parts and Fancy but yet so troublesome at all Times and in all Companies that I have often been forced to repeat an Excellent Proverb of your Country God deliver me from a man that has but one business and I assure you there is no Mans Reputation that I envy less than I do that of such Persons and therefore you may please to believe that I have not imitated them in scattering these Notions nor can I Prophesie whether any such Apprehensions as these will ever come into the Heads of those men who are our true Physitians But yet to answer your Question and give you my Conjecture I believe that we are not Ripe yet for any great Reform not only because we are a very Debauch'd People I do not only mean that we are given to Whoring Drinking Gaming and Idleness but chiefly that we have a Politique Debauch which is a neglect of all things that concern the publick welfare and a setting up our own private Interest against it I say this is not all for then the Polity of no Country could be Redrest For every Commonwealth that is out of order has ever all these Debauches we speak of as Consequences of their loose State But there are two other Considerations which induce me to fear that our Cure is not yet near The first is because most of the Wise and Grave Men of this Kingdom are very silent and will not open their Budget upon any terms and although they dislike the present Condition we are in as much as any Men and see the Precipice it leads us to yet will never open their Mouths to prescribe a Cure but being asked what they would advise give a shrug like your Country-men There was a very considerable Gentleman as most in England both for Birth Parts and Estate who being a Member of the Parliament that was called 1640. continued all the War with them and by his Wisdom and Eloquence which were both very great promoted very much their Affairs When the Factions began between the Presbyters and Independents he joyned Cordially with the latter so far as to give his Affirmative to the Vote of No Addresses that is to an Order made in the House of Commons to send no more Messages to the King nor to receive any from him Afterwards when an Assault was made upon the House by the Army and divers of the Members taken violently away and Secluded he disliking it though he were none of them voluntarily absented himself and continued retired being exceedingly averse to a Democratical Government which was then declared for till Cromwell's Usurpation and being infinitely courted by him absolutely refused to accept of any Employment under him or to give him the least Counsel When Cromwell was dead and a Parliament called by his Son or rather by the Army the chief Officers of which did from the beginning whisper into the Ears of the Leading Members that if they could make an honest Government they should be stood by as the Word then was by the Army This Gentleman at that time neither would be Elected into that Parliament nor give the least Advice to any other Person that was but kept himself still upon the Reserve Insomuch that it was generally believed that although he had ever been opposite to the late King 's coming to the Government again though upon Propositions yet he might hanker after the Restoration of His Majesty that now is But that Apprehension appeared groundless when it came to the pinch for being consulted as an Oracle by the then General Monk whether he should restore the Monarchy again or no would make no Answer nor give him the least Advice and de facto hath ever since kept himself from Publick Business although upon the Banishment of my Lord of Clarendon he was visited by one of the Greatest Persons in England and one in as much Esteem with His Majesty as any whatsoever and desired to accept of some great Employment near the King which he absolutely refusing the same Person not a Stranger to him but well known by him begged of him to give his Advice how His Majesty who desired nothing more than to unite all his People together and repair the Breaches which the Civil War had caused now my Lord Clarendon was gone who by his Counsels kept those Wounds open might perform that Honourable and Gracious Work but still this Gentleman made his Excuses And in short neither then nor at any time before or after excepting when he sate in the Long Parliament of the Year 40. neither during the distracted Times nor since His Majesty's Return when they seemed more reposed would ever be brought either by any private intimate Friend or by any Person in Publick Employment to give the least Judgment of our Affairs or the least Counsel to mend them though he was not shye of declaring his dislike of Matters as they went And yet this Gentleman was not only by repute and esteem a wise Man but was really so as it