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A16941 A discouerie of certaine errours published in print in the much commended Britannia. 1594 Very preiudiciall to the discentes and successions of the auncient nobilitie of this realme. By Yorke Herault.; Discoverie of certaine errours published in print in the much commended Britannia. Part 1. Brooke, Ralph, 1553-1625.; Leland, John, 1506?-1552. Laboryouse journey and serche of Johan Leylande, for Englaundes antiquitees. 1599 (1599) STC 3834; ESTC S106718 60,269 98

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her deede to King E. 1. Pag. 710. THis is quite Camme from your wordes before in the tytle of Earles of Deuon Pag. 144. for there you affirme Bauldwyn Ryduers to be made the first Earle of Deuonshire by king Henrie the first And now in this place you make Richard father of the said Bauldwyn to be first Earle of Deuon in the same kinges time which Richard must needes be vnderstood to be that Richard which was father to Bauldwyn whom you say was driuen from the Isle of Wight in king Stephens time as in mine answere before to the Earles of Deuon more at large it doth appeare Thus your wordes in one place being meerly repugnant to those in an other what credite may any geue to your writinges THe owners of Skelton Castell were first Robert de Bruse a Norman who had issue two sonnes Adam that was Baron of Skelton and Robert Lord of Auandale in Scotland from whose posteritie came the Kings of Scotland Peter Bruse the fift in succession from that Adam died without issue and left for his heires his sisters Agnes marid to Walter Faulconberg Lucy married to Walter Twenge from whom is descended the Baron of Lumley Margaret maried to Robert de Roos and Ladrina to Iohn Bella-aqua men of great accompt in that time Page 556. WHat thankes you looke for I know not but well assured I am in this place as in many others you haue deserued none for few or none of the Noble Families with whom you haue had to deale with or to write off but that you haue iniured them in some one poynt or other And now that we are come to speake of the last Peter Bruse Baron of Skelton who dyed 14. Kalendes of October 1273. I pray you let vs examine a little that honorable the Lord Lumley his discent whom in your owne conceipt you haue made much beholding vnto you for adding to him one Auncestor such as I dare boldly say neither he nor any other as yet euer knew or heard of I meane Walter Twenge who you say married Lucy the sister and coheire of Peter Bruse Baron of Skelton was Auncestor to the now Baron of Lumley But that you may the better reforme this with many other your faultes I will for your better instruction manifest vnto you the name true husband of the said Luce which was Marmaduke Twenge a noble Baron in king Edward the first his time who died in the Kalendes of March 1284. and was buried by his said wife Lucia in the Church of Gwisborne founded by Robert Bruse the Norman his wiues Auncestor 1129. DAnby came from the successors of Walter Twenge to the Latymers which were afterward Barons Latymers of Danby from whom it passed by mariage vnto the Willoughbyes which inheritance with the honour Ralph Neuill the first Earle of Westmerland did purchase for his younger sonne George Neuill in whose issue it remayneth to this day Pag. 556. THat Danby was the possession of Walter Twenge and that from his successors it came to the Latymers who were after Barons of Danby I answere as before in the title of Skelton That there was neuer anie such Walter yet borne and then no such successors of his could carrie the same to the Latymers as you verie vntruly haue heere set downe for proofe hereof I referre me to the iudgement of the honorable Lord Lumley himselfe who hath this discent most exactly set downe by that worthy and late Officer of Armes Sommerset Herault And to the other That Ralph Neuell Earle of Westmerland did purchase the said inheritance and honour of Iohn Lord Latymer of Danby for his younger sonne George I graunt for true that he purchased the Landes but not the dignitie for Iohn Neuill that solde the said landes had no fee simple in the dignitie to sell but onely an estate for tearme of life therefore can you not rightly say that Ralph Neuill Earle of Westmerland did purchase the dignitie which George his sonne enioyed But more agreeable to the trueth had it been if you had said that George sonne of Ralph Neuill in regarde that he had the Landes whereof the dignitie of Latymer was erected obtained the honour by the Kinges free gyft and fauour otherwise that title and dignitie had been extinct for seldome shall you finde that the Kinges of this Realme did euer create or inuest any into a Baronie which tooke the name of dignitie from an others peculiar place of inheritance or possession THe Barony of Burford descended from the posteritie of Theodericke Saij to Robert Mortimer and from his posteritie to Geffrey Cornwall that came of Richard Earle of Cornwall and King of Romanes his of spring hauing continued Barons thereof to this day Pag. 455. I Doe much pittie you that in such high sayles of learning you should haue so little ballace of discretion You haue a great facilitie and a rare gift in the creating and making of Barons with the dash of your penne But it argueth how shallow you are in the true definition of a Baron in that you will publish in print that the familie of Cornwalles were Barons of Burford you being not able euer to make proofe of any one of them to haue had that dignitie Notwithstanding diuers of that surname haue been Knightes of which number king Henrie the sixt did erect Sir Iohn Cornwall to be a Baron and Peere of this Realme by the name and title of Lord Fanhope which Iohn was both the first and last Baron of that familie and therefore it standeth now with your credite to make proofe of these your Barons of Burford which I thinke wil be too hard and difficult a matter for you to doe KIng Stephen made Walleron Earle of Millent brother to Robert Bossu Earle of Leicester the first Earle of Worcester whose children left the Realme and returned to their auncient patrimonie in Normandie And that dignitie lay voyde vntill Richard the second bestowed it vpon Thomas Percy who was after slaine by King H. 4. Pag. 445. IS it possible or do you thinke to perswade any senscible man to beleeue that this late borne Britannia was of your owne collection you as it seemeth not vnderstanding the same No assure yourselfe for who knoweth not that the contentes thereof are neither taught nor learned amongst children in Schooles and your selfe neuer employed els where to attaine the knowledge thereof Many learned thinke it more fitter you had waded within the compasse of your owne profession and knowledge in which your errours would not so apparently haue been descried as heere they are In this Title of Earles of Worcester you make Walleron to be the first Earle of Worcester and that his issue did depart this Realme to their auncient patrimonie in Normandie By which if it were true then were there none of that progenie to be looked for heere in this Realme of England to the great preiudice of many honorable Families descended of the
of Warin fitz-Gerald a sonne called Baldwin the third Earle of Deuon who changed his anncesters Escuchion from a griffon golde in a field gules vnto a shield golde charged with a Lyon azure He had issue two children Baldwin the last Earle of this familie and Isabell that was maryed to William de Fortibus Earle of Albemarle and of Deuonshire in her right Pag. 144. HEre doe you wrong this discent of the Earles of Deuonshire making Baldwin Ryuers to be the first Earle of Deuonshire and Lord of Twyfferton and Plympton in king Henry the first his time when as it is very manifest that Richard Ryuers father of this Baldwin was the same person vnto whome king Henry the first gaue Twifferton Plimpton and the yle of Wight with the Earledome of Deuonshire and not to Baldwin his sonne whome you name as is very well prooued by the booke of Brightley and Forde where those of that familie doe lye buryed as also by your owne Testimonie against your selfe in the tittle of Iles in your booke Pag. 710. Secondly to your affirmation that Baldwin the third Earle of Deuon did change his Auncestors Escucheon gules a griffon gold vnto a shield golde a Lyon azure I answere it is a fault in a meane person to be founde vntrue in his reportes much more in you to publish in print such an vntrueth as this for you can not euer prooue the said shielde gules with the griffon golde to haue bene borne or vsed by any of the said familie or any other Armes at all of theirs can you shewe vntill that Baldwin the third did vse for his Armes the foresaid Lyon azure vpon golde Thirdly because in the beginnning of this succession of Earles of Deuon you abridged vs of the first now to make amendes for the same and to fill vp the number againe you doe here name for an Earle of Deuon William de Fortibus who neuer as yet attayned vnto that dignitie And therefore no reason why you should thus adde or substracte to or from noble persons dignities at your pleasure But here peraduenture yee will say Isabel the wife of the aforenamed William de Fortibus did in her widowhood write her selfe Countesse of Albermale and Deuon and Lady of the I le which if I graunt vnto that she did it was in respect that she was the onely heire then left aliue of that honorable familie and yet will not that make a necessitie that her husband must be Earle of Deuon THe Barony of Stoke-Curcy was so named of the Lordes thereof It was the seate of William Curcy that was Sewer vnto king Henry the first He had issue William whose daughter Auice was wife to Warin Fitz-Gerald and their daughter and heire was maryed to Baldwin Riuers Earle of Deuon Of this familie of Curcies did discend Iohn Curcie which by warlike force ouercame Vlster in Ireland Pag. 157. YOur errors here committted are these first you make William de Curcy that was Sewer to K. Henry the first to haue issue a sonne named William which is vntrue for that he dyed without issue and left Robert de Curcy his brother his heire Secōdly you say the said Williā de Curcy had a grand-childe by his sonne William called Auice maryed to Warrin Fitz-Gerald who had issue a daughter and heire maryed to Baldwin Earle of Deuon In which you are also deceiued For the first William as I saide before had not any issue at all and therefore no such grand-childe And where you affirme the said Warin Fitz-Gerald to haue issue by Auice his wife but one onely daughter it is manifest that he had issue a sonne named Warin Fitz-Gerald who had issue the third Warin Fitz-Gerald But for your better instruction herein and to correct this your errour I will set you downe the truth of this discēt as followeth Robert de Curcy a great Baron and Councellour vnto William Rufus had issue two sonnes William and Robert William the eldest sonne dying without issue Robert his brother succeded him in his dignitie and was a witnesse to the Charter of king Stephen of landes that hee gaue to the Abbay of Westminster by the name of Robert de Curcy the kings Sewer After whose death Robert de Curcy his eldest sonne Sewer to king Henry the second being slaine in Ireland without anie issue William the seconde sonne succeeded and was a witnesse to the Charter of king Henrie the second of landes and liberties that he gaue to Saint Peters at Westminster He had issue Iohn de Curcy gouernour of Vlster in Ireland in the time of king Iohn who hauing no issue left his rich patrimonie to Alice or Auice his sister then the wife of Warin Fitz-Gerald which Warin was a witnesse to the Charter of king Iohn of his submission to the Pope 1212. Hee had issue by his said wife the second Warin Fitz-Gerald Lord of Harewood father to the third Warin THe greatest glorie of Bridgewater was that king Henrie the seuenth honoured it with the title of an Earldome by making Giles Dawbeney Gentleman of his Chamber Earle thereof whose onely daughter and heire was maried to I. Bourchier the first earle of Bath of that familie Pag. 161. IF the making of Gentlemen heretofore hath beene greatly misliked by her Maiestie in the kinges of Armes much more displeasing I thinke it will be to her that you being no Officer of Armes should erect make and put downe Earles and Barons at your pleasure publishing in print falslie their admittance or depriuation as in this place you haue done making Giles Dawbeney to be created Earle of Bridgewater by King Henrie the seuenth when as the said King neuer aduaunced him nor any other to that dignitie neither was the said Giles euer anie Earle during his life And therefore here haue you no great cause to boast of your skill in Heraldie But to pleasure you I will bring you to the marke whereat your vnaduised penne hath roued which is to Henrie Dawbeney whome king Henrie the eight on the 21. day of Iulie in the 30. yeare of his reigne did at his Mannor of Ocking create Earle of Bridgewater which Henry was both the first and last that euer caried that title of dignitie and died without issue All which I hope you will confesse to bee true and acknowledge your fault HVngerford was a familie of great account euer since the time of King Edward the third for Thomas Hungerford was grandfather to Walter Lord Hungerford Treasurer of England Which Walter enriched his familie by marying Katherin Peuerell she being descended from the Moyles and Courtneys His son Robert also enlarged the same more by marying with Eleonore the daughter and heire of William Lord Mollins who was beheaded at New-castle in the ciuill warres betwixt the families of Lancaster and Yorke He had issue Thomas that was slaine at Salisbury in the life of his father yet left hee issue one sole daughter called Marie that was
and to bee a witnesse to the said kings Charter touching the foundation of the Abbay of Selbie by the name of Edward Earle of Salisburie Which proueth that Patrike his grand-childe was not then the first Earle of Salisburie of that familie as you affirme Secondly where you hold for a certaintie that Walter the sonne of Edward aforesaid before his monasticall profession left issue to succeede him Patrike his sonne To that I answere that Sybill his wife after the death of the said Walter her husband took vpon her the habit of a Nunne and hauing continued in that estate but one moneth perceiuing her selfe to be with child forsooke that order again and afterwards was deliuered of a son which was named Patrike who was after steward to Maude the Empresse by whose meanes king Henry the second in the 28. yeare of his reigne confirmed vnto the said Patrike the earledom of Salisburie Thirdly concerning your affirmation that William sonne of the said Patrike had but one only daughter named Ella maried to William Longa-Spatha who in her right was Earle of Salisbury and did beare her Armes To this I say you do hereby greatly preiudice the honorable familie of Howards for the said William had not onely two sonnes but also two daughters as appeareth by the booke of Bermondsey in Southwarke viz. Patrike William Mabell and Ella Mabell was maried to Nigell Lord Mowbray of whom all the Howards with many others are discended Ella was maried vnto William Longa-Spatha base sonne to Henrie the second who afterward by the speciall fauour of King Richard the first in the 9. yeare of his reigne was made Earle of Salisburie and not in right of his wife as you would haue it And where you say the said William Longa-Spatha and Ella had issue William who succeeded his father in that dignitie and left issue the third William which lost that Earledome through displeasure of King Henrie the third I answere that I maruaile howe you can inuent two so great vntruths as first to affirme these two last Williams to be Earles of Salisburie when neither of them both were euer Earles either of that or anie other place And that the saide William did vse or beare the Armes of his wife I take it you haue no other proofe for the same then your owne bare imagination which with you is verie great Lastly where you affirme Henrie Lacie to bee Earle of Salisburie in right of his wife the daughter and heire of the last William Longa-Spatha I say that neither hee the saide Henrie nor any other of his Surname were euer at anie time honoured with that title or Earledome And nowe to manifest the mariage of the Lorde Nigell de Mowbray with Mabell daughter of William Fitz-Patrike I will set you downe for proofe the said Nigels deed which is as followeth SCiant presentes futuri quod ego Nigellus dominus de Mowbray dedi concessi c. Know ye that I Nigell Lord Mowbraw haue giuen and confirmed from my Mannor of Bensted in Surrey which I had in mariage with Mabell my wife heire of William Fitz-Patrike the Church of Bensted to the canons of Southwarke in whose possession I found the said Church confirmed by Richard Bishop of Winton c. TOuching the Earles of Winchester as our Herauldes report after that Clito the Saxon was by the Normans depriued of his auncient dignitie King Iohn made Saer de Quincie Earle of Winchester who vsed for his Armes a Fesse with a Labell of fiue points as wee haue seene in his Seale but Roger his sonne bare seuen Losenges golde voyded in a field Gules He hauing no issue male by Helene his wife the eldest daughter and Coheire of Alane Prince of Galloway in Scotland that honour lay dead A great while after Hugh de Spencer was honoured with that title by King Edward the second whose sonne for treason lost both that dignitie and his life After that by the bountie of king Edward the fourth Lewis of Bruges a Belgian Baron of Gruthuse and Prince of Stenhuse enioyed this title with the Armes of Quincies Which title after the death of King Edwarde aforesaide he surrendered againe to King Henrie the seuenth Pag. 197. VVHom you vnderstand by the terme of our Heralds I knowe not my selfe being one of her Maiesties Heralds do approue for truth that Seer de Quincy was Earle of Winchester and did vse in his shield for his Armes a Fesse and a Labell of 13. points and not of 5. as you misreport to haue seene in his seales And to proue my assertion true I haue diuerse deedes with the Seales of the saide Quincies in my custody made aswell in the reigne of king Richard the first as in the times of king Iohn and Henry the third As for Hugh Spencer he was made Earle of Winchester high Treasurer of England in the 15. yeare of King Edwarde the second and in the 19. yeare of the said kings reigne hee was executed at Bristow by Queene Isabell so that the dignitie ceased in himselfe and not in his sonne as you affirme who neuer had or was possessed of that dignitie Lastly where you say that King Edward the fourth did giue to Lewes of Bruges the Earledome of Winchester with the Armes of Quincies I answere you haue not onelie misreported the same but also shewed your selfe to be very ignorant in matters of Armes for those Armes giuen by Edward the fourth to Lewes of Bruges were neither the armes of Quincies nor any thing at all resembling the same And for proofe hereof I pray you let vs a little compare them both togither first the armes giuē by K. Ed. 4. to the said Lewes were Azur ten mascles gold the armes of Quincies were Gules 7. masclesgold Bruges did beare in his armes a canton Gules charged with a Lion passant gardant of the second Quincy had neither Canton nor Lion in his Armes So that here is neither colour nor charge to induce a man of any iudgement or knowledge to thinke or say that this gift of Edward the fourth was the Armes of Quincy And for better proofe hereof I will here insert the wordes of king Edwardes graunt concerning the gift of the said Armes REx omnibus c. Sciatis quod c. Lodouicum Brugensem principem de la Gruthuse dominum de Spieres de Aemsted de Oestamp in Comitat. Winton praefecimus Creauimus insigniuimus ac per praesentes praeficimus Creamus insignimus vnà cum armis insignib armorum modo forma hîc depict in gallico sic discernundis Il port d' azure a dix mascles d'or en orme de vn canton de nostre propre armes de Angleterre c ' est ascauoir de gules vn Leopard passant d'or armé d'azure pat 12. Edw. 4. LAnheron was the seate of the familie of Arundels or de Hirundine that is of the Swallow for Arondell is in French a Swallow Those of