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A33252 Truth with time, or, Certain reasons proving that none of the seven last plagues or vials are yet poured out neither will the time of their pouring out begin till after the rising of the two witnesses and the fourty months of the Beast's reign be expired : likewise an answer to the said reasons with a reply further the author hath here set down (in a brief exposition) his opinion of the first vial / by John Canne. Canne, John, d. 1667? 1656 (1656) Wing C443A; ESTC R23893 78,059 119

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14.9 and he shall know them For the ways of the Lord are right and the just shall walk in them but the transgressors shall fall therein 5. To hold that some of the Vials are begun it draws such a cloud and darkness over mens eyes as it cannot but disadvantage Saints many ways For 1. Those who now suffer upon the account of the Fifth Kingdom and run not after the errour of Balaam for reward what improvement can they make of their Testimony I say how little comparatively doth it tend to If the Sackcloth-Witnesses have poured out Vials upon the Earth Sea and Fountains of waters truly the house of Austria is a business far off and the following Vials yet further and in my understanding all yeelds very little comfort to those whose present expectation is raised up after great and high things nearer home Again granting some Vials poured out but how many and when where and how here all uncertain This must needs wrap a soul into a world of doubts as what to pray for and where we are and what work to prepare for Paul saith well It is good to be zealously affected always Gal. 4.18 in a good thing For my part I sincerely speak it taking the Vials begun the more I consider where we are and what to pray for and prepare for as to present Generation-work the less I am satisfied as to have things bottom'd and well grounded But on the contrary taking the Vials not begun here methinks things are easie and plain to him that hath understanding as to the knowledge both of our Time and Work Besides for the Prisoners of hope here is that will stay them with flaggons Eccl. 4.14 and comfort them with apples For out of prison he cometh to reign The risen Witnesses are to begin the work upon the Earth-state Apostacie After three years and half which I take to be the whole time of the last State-Apostacie and the Witnesses lying so long slain that in Job will be made good Job 17.8 The innocent shall stir up himself against the hypocrite 6. Were this Doctrine concerning the Vials rightly understood it would awaken many carnal and corrupt Professors as Formalists Neuters Time-servers c. It is no marvel that this sort of men are so little affected or affrighted with the seven last plagues For if three of the Vials as it is commonly held are poured out and yet all things continue as they were from the beginning Why may not the later do as little as the former did Whereas did the Hypocrites and Apostates of this Age know that none of them are yet poured out and withal were they informed who will be the subjects of each Vial and what the effects this would be like thunder in their ears Alas who shall live when God doth this Num. 24.23 Now we should see the sinners in Sion afraid fearfulness would surprise the hypocrites Specially when they shall hear that the first Vial whose subject is the Earth is shortly to be poured forth upon an earthly and carnal Interest to wit the Grand Apostates of the last times described in 2 Tim. 3.2 3 4. For the time is come 1 Pet. 4.17 that judgement must begin at the house of God according to his way of old and begin at my Sanctuary Ezek. 9.6 And in taking this course all mouthes will be stopp'd Be silent Zech. 2.13 O all flesh before the Lord for he is raised up out of his holy habitation What will Rome Spain France Germany c. have to say when it comes to be their Turn to feel the weight and wrath of the Vials when they shall hear how the Lord began first at his Sanctuary namely with those had a Form of godliness but denyed the power thereof 7. Neither is the knowledge of this altogether without some use to the present Powers of the world especially such who say they believe that Christ shall have a visible and glorious Kingdom onely they differ from their Brethren in point of time It was much that Saul should tell David I know well saith he that thou shalt surely be king 1 Sam. 24.20 and that the kingdom of Israel shall be established in thine hand One would think he spake not as he thought or at least not as he would have it when no sooner were the words out of his mouth but he sought by all the subtil ways he could devise how to take away Davids life that he might not be king But now to remove jealousie from men in Authority in relation to those who already cry Hosanna to the Son of David GOD SAVE KING JESUS blessed be he that cometh in the Name of the Lord and do assert him the onely Potentate and that he shall break all other Potentates and Powers of the world and alone be exalted This Apologie I dare give forth to the whole world in their behalf I speak of those who bear witness to the fifth Kingdom That they do abhor all secret Designes and Plots neither is it in their hearts to act as men nor for men no nor to appear in the work of the Lord till they shall see one of the days of the Son of man that is the Lord eminently risen in lifting up the Standard for his People So that as they cease from man and from trusting in Chariots and Horse-men so it is belowe their Principles to provide Pikes and Muskets or any such Ammunition for they know when their time and work comes if they shall need then any such Weapons their Enemies will spare them enough as casting away all they have that they may flie the faster to Rocks and Mountains whereby to be hid from the fierce wrath of the Lamb. But whereas there is a great Rumour thorow the Nations of wonderful Actions and Changes at hand Mat. 2.3 When Herod heard these things he was troubled and all Jerusalem with him hence it is suggested as if the Assertors of Christ's glorious and visible Kingdom had fix'd a certain definite determinate Time when the Stone cut out without hands should begin to smite the Image upon his feet that were of Iron Clay and break them in pieces But this is not true Yet this we confess for we desire as our hearts are known to God so to have them naked and opened unto the eyes of all men we are of opinion That the Lord will arise Psal 102.13 and have mercy upon Zion for the time to favour her yea the set-time is come The vision which was for an appointed time Hab. 2.3 is at an end and will speak The fourty and two months and one thousand two hundred and sixty days are neer their periods and there shall be time no longer either for the Beast or other Tyrants to bear rule over the Saints of the most High But what of this Here is no ground for action for until the Lord himself make it clear and certain by
the Apostles namely when the Kingdom should be restored again to Israel was a secret never to be revealed but it was not then seasonable nor necessary or proper for them as to their Generation to have the knowledge of it So the Tabernacle of the Testimony is shut whilst the Witnesses prophesie in sack-cloth because the things therein belong not to their Work or Age yet to be opened neer or about the time of the end as being then and not till then necessary and seasonable Neither doth Mr. Tilling in his 3 Proposition pag. 42. differ from this speaking That God's call to the Angels of the Vials is to be principally looked for out of the Temple I understand saith he not so much of the general call as a more particular and special Call peculiar to this time of the Vials The general Call to Generation-Work is dispensation but now at this time besides the Call of God's Dispensations the instruments God shall raise up to ruine the Whore shall have a more particular Call to this Work to the end they may neither flag nor draw back namely the loud and uncessant cry of the Temple Hence two things may be gathered I. The Vials are not began for such a particular and special Call hath not been yet out of the Temple It is true God hath raised up some men and brought them forth against Babylon as in France Germany England c. But this hath been no other than a General Call for 1. They have not moved nor acted like Angels which had golden girdles upon their breasts Neither 2. hath God's presence and appearance with them held forth such a thing Besides by the event it hath been well enough seen both in the Work and Instruments what the Call was So that we need now no other witness or proof viz. That neither by the Swedes or English any Vials were poured out then the things themselves II. That this particular and special Call out of the Temple cannot be until the Tabernacle of the Testimony be opened and the Ark seen for what else is God's Call to the Angels of the Vials to pour out their Vials but Light and Life that is knowing the 42 months are expired the witnesses risen and that it is the day of the Lord's vengeance and the yeer of Recompences for the controversie of Sion Now as the called of God they come forth to pour out their golden Vials not like Jehu to raise up themselves by other mens ruine but to follow the Lord fully and faithfully And this is according to the Prophet I have commanded my sanctified ones I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger even them that rejoyce in MY HIGHNESS Isa 13.3 Answ 2. I except against your proof Rev. 11.19 for I do not take that for the Tabernacle of the Testimony as you assert but for a full opening of the Temple in as primitive and purity of state as the Church was in before the Beast arose or in the first 3 Centuries which will not be at the rising of the 2 Witnesses nor before the Armageddon-battel but the Tabernacle is opened before the Temple as David 's Tabernacle was before Solomon 's Temple Now it is the Tabernacle of the Testimony which is opened and from whence the Vials come which Tabernacle grows up to the Temple Eph. 2.21 by degrees but the Temple when it is opened is opened all at once I conceive and universally not by degrees and to all the faithful Saints whereas the Tabernacle to the Generation-Saints that are faithful to the Testimony Repl. 1. It is no marvel that taking one thing for another you may go on thus in mistakes 1. To suppose that Rev. 11.19 is not one with Rev. 15.5 there is no ground for it why is it called the Tabernacle of the Testimony Numb 1.5 17.17 but in regard of the 2 Tables of Stone whereon was written as I said before the Law of God the Testimony of his will Exod. 34.28 and these Tables put into the Ark and that Ark placed in the uttermost part of the Temple So that to say the Tabernacle of the Testimony was opened and seen and not the Ark in my Opinion is no other than to imagine what is within a Chest or Closet may be seen and is open but the Chest or Closet it self neither seen nor open 2. Whereas you would have the Temple not open till the Armageddon-battel but the Tabernacle open before If things here be duely weighed the Temple was never shut but onely the Tabernacle of the Testimony and therefore what you speak of opening the Temple all at once universally and not by degrees I finde no Temple to apply such matter to Neither do I know any Tabernacle David had otherwise than taking care to provide a place for the Ark 2 Sam. 6.17 Psal 132. Answ 3. This appears more plain from the time this Temple is opened which the Holy Ghost tells us in Rev. 11.19 is after the seventh Trumpet sounds and Proclamation of the Kingdoms of the World to be Christ's vers 15. or yet more expresly under the 7 Vial Rev. 16.17 18 21. under which we finde the very same voyces thunders lightnings Earth-quakes and hail mentioned in the aforesaid Rev. 11.19 But the Tabernacle of the Testimony must needs be opened before that as none will deny it Repl. 1. That Rev. 11.19 contemporizes with Chap. 15.5 it is cleer to me neither do I see weight of Reason in what is here objected namely That Rev. 11.19 is after the 7 trumpet sounds and proclamation of the Kingdoms c. If a man have several things to speak he must have time to deliver them one after another he cannot speak them all at once Besides it is an excellent order which the Spirit of God useth in setting down the Particulars Having spoken of the risen Witnesses he shews first what shall be some present effect vers 13. then proceeds to the Concomitants as the beginng of the third work vers 14. with the sounding of the 7 trumpet vers 15. afterwards declares what joy there shall be in the Churches of the Saints that the Kingdoms of the world are falling in to Christ vers 16 17 18. Lastly that there might be no doubt made of these things he shews how the work shall be managed and carried on And the temple of God was opened in heaven and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament c. vers 19. agreeing to Rev. 15.5 meaning a cleer light which the 7 Angels shall have of their Work and when to begin 2. To bring Rev. 11.19 under the 7 Vial I think there is no ground for it 1. Because there is no mention made under that Vial of the Ark of the Testament opened in heaven such a thing is not so much as exprest 2. To gather it from lightnings voices thunderings c. in both places This will not hold for 1. Such Expressions in this Book are
had done unto the two Kings of the Amorites that were on the other side Jordan Sihon and Og whom they utterly destroyed assoon as they had heard these things their hearts did melt neither did there remain any more courage in any man because of Israel Josh 2.10 11. Such will be the effect of the first Vial when Babylon shall hear by those postes Jer. 51.31 what the Lord by his risen VVitnesses hath done upon THAT EARTH the other side Jordan O what a noisome and grievous sore will be upon the Canaanites their hearts will die within them as fore-seeing their destruction in seeing the drawn Sword of Jehovah in the hands of his Mighty Ones Thus I have given a short Paraphrase of the first Vial it is indeed but short to what might be said onely I have done it to shew that taking the Vials not yet begun but to begin at the rising of the Witnesses there is in my Opion more Scripture-Ground for it than to begin at Waldo Wickliff Armachan c. or by Earth to understand the grosser part of Popery But this I leave to the judicious and godly Reader Answ 5. Lastly Should I grant which I do not what you say yet out of one and the same Temple all the Angels go 3 although not so opened to the first as to the last Now whereas you apprehend not a sufficient ground to say the last Vials are more perfect high or accomplishing than the first I suppose there is seeing the holy Ghost hath given such a Character of perfection to the last Rev. 16.17 c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as he hath not given to the first And besides it must needs be that as the spirit of life comes down from on high more and more the instruments will be purer and purer And besides he is not always the best that engageth the first for the engagement may be greatest and the work hardest at last and then the Lord reserves instruments of more excellent principles and proportionable Faith and courage as I believe he hath for the Armageddon-battle and to bring up the rear under the seventh Vial. So far for your sixth Reason which I have been the larger in because I did take it for one of the Weightiest Repl. 1. As the difference lies betwixt us the matter is not much whether the Tabernacle of the Testimony be not opened to the first as to the last seeing till after the rising of the Witnesses it is not opened at all and so no Vial poured out by any of the Angels This was the thing which I asserted and finde nothing in the whole Answer to the contrary 2. For the Characters of perfection c. if there be any thing meant by the holy Ghost in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to prove it You see more than I for to me it is no more than if seven men having done seven several things one after another the last knowing they have all done saith They have done How this can prove the last to be a better instrument then the first I know not I confess some take the last Angel to be Christ now in this sense it is true he is more perfect and high c. than the first yea than all the other six put them all together 3. Although as I said before we are here off from the matter viz. that the Instruments of the last Vials shall have more excellent principles and proportionable Faith and courage c. yet for the thing it self I question It is easier to overcome a dismaid Enemy and broken in his Forces than when he is in heart and whole The first Vial I conceive shall be poured out upon the Earth when Babylon shall say in her heart I fit a Queen and am no Widow and shall see no sorrow Rev. 18.7 the following Vials upon her as being full of fear terror and amazement so that the work seeme to be hardest at first Answer to the seventh Reason I shall not need to say much to this for not only we have it out of Cardinals and Papists mouths as to the first Vial and so as to the Swedes under the second but now as to the third Vial in the ende wars in Britain to which indeed it properly appertains the very Enemies as well as Friends have said True and righteous are thy judgements O God against the King Prelates yea the very Cavaliers and Malignants acknowledging That the hand of God was against them and that it could be no other than the finger of the Lord and in time as the plagues go out it will appear without dispute on whose side the truth is to such as will see Repl. 1. That the three first Vials are thus placed I never yet saw ground for it To forbear the first having already spoken of it why should the second Vial be applied to the Swedes and not rather to the Civil Wars in France or Bohemia or to the long Wars of the Albigenses against the Papists Sure I am there was as much of God if not more seen in these wars and his judgements a● manifest as in the Swedes So for the third Vial which properly appertains you say to Britain and why not to Scotland in their Maries Reign or to the Netherlands seeing as much was done there in point of Reformation as here in England Methinks to take in the Swedes and leave out others more considerable significant and Vial-like in your own way is not well But some may say There are not Vials enough to give such allowance 2. For Cardinals Prelates Cavilliers c. we have had little yet out of their mouthes It may be some few now and then as it hath been so since there were such men have acknowledged Gods appearing against them in some remarkable providence But how as a Vial of wrath No but as the Corrections of a Father making use of bad men as Roundheads Brownists Anabaptists Sectaries c. as his Rod or Instruments hoping for all this to recover their losses and to have their former Places and Superstition restored So that Gods judgements have not been manifest as to the conviction of enemies n●● was there more acknowledged amongst them of God finger under the two supposed Vials then what hath been often at other times And therefore from such a Principle I do not see but every Fight or Battel must be one of the seven last Plagues I mean when a few amongst the Captives and Prisoners shall acknowledge that the hand of the Lord was out against them 3. And lastly For the place Rev. 15.4 For thy judgements are manifest It doth not concern so much the Enemies of the Truth what they confess as how manifest Gods judgements are in themselves Howsoever therefore something was manifested in the Swedes and in Britain against the Beast as at other times as much yet this doth not prove that the second and third Vials were then poured out I deny that for when such