Loe here agayn my second assertion justified by your C. that the vvord of God is to be found in the Prophets and Apostles vvritings As for the meaning or understaÌ„ding of these scriptures explaned by the church that remaineth for a third consideration But furder to confirm this second he sayth The rule of the catholik faith ought to be certayn and known for if it be not known it wil be no rule to us and if it be not certayn it is no rule at all But nothing is more known nothing more certayn then the holy scriptures which are conteyned in the Prophetical and Aposiolical writings that most foolish must he needs be which denyes that credit is to be given unto them Agayn he confesseth that the holy scripture is a most certayn and a most safe rule of beleeving These things spake your Cardinal though perhaps not of himself but as being high preist that yere when he disputed against the Libertines others that despise tho scriptures of God And thus hath the truth obteyned testimony out of your masters mouth whose learning I crow his scholars wil not withstand or if they doe this dâ—o nâ—s given against them by the lesaitâ— They fight with Moses with the Prophets with the Apostled wich Christ 〈…〉 to God the father and the holy Ghost which contemn the holy scriptures and â—aelâ—s of God Thus have I proved sufficiently as I supposâ— in my former this writing that God vvord vvill is to be found in the propheticall and Apostolical scriptures that if you longer resist you vvilbe condemned of yourself Other humane testimonies out of Augustine Hier many like Doctors I could further all edge to confirm this trach but the vvitnesse of God is venough for me both it and the testimonies of your Cardinal are sufficient against you And novv I come to your first assertion vvhich yovv took upon you to prove That the bare scripture is not a sufficient rule of our beleef â— that many mysteries and points are is be beleeved that are not erpâ—â—slâ— taught or evidently deduced out of the holy scriptures Against this I brought in my former vvriting evident testimonies from heaven as 2. Tim. 3. 16. 17 Iohn 20. 31. 1 Cor. 4. 6. others against vvhich you open not your mouth An â—…g your first argument that vve mought not by any aequivocation mistake one another I shevved my meaning distinctly hovv things many man be beleeved though they be not gathered out of the written word understanding hereby a coÌ„mune or humane beleef wherin men may varie vvithout danger of damnation As for example a man may beleev that the Apostle Matth â—vvvvis in AEthiopia Thomas in India Iude in Persia upon the report of humanâ— records And so Peter at Rome if you vvil But for salvation with God I sayd not any thing is needful to be beleeved â—ave that which is taught by his written word You in your replie seeking advantage by vvords conclude that I hold some tradition necessarie besided the written word thus now have drawen as you say water out of the Rock synce I grant that tradition is necessary to mâ—… beleef Wheras I used not the vvord necessarie but may be evidently restreyned things needful for salvation to Gods written word to that your water is spilt on the grouÌ„d cannot be gathered up agayn hovv ever you may strive about vvords vvhen matter fayleth Agayn my assertion that nothing is needful to be beleeved for salvation with God but that which is taught by his written word is you say most false since nothing with mâ—is more necessarie to salvation then the written word which word is not proved by an other written word c. Where first you fight against God vvho sayth in Iohn 20. 30. 31. Many oâ— her signs did Iesus in the preseÌ„ce of his disciples which are not vvritten in this book but these things are vvritteÌ„ that ye mought beleev that Iesus is the Christ the son of God and that in beleeving ye mought have life through his name And agayn in 2. Tim 3 16. 17. All scripture is inspired of God and profitable for doctrine for reprehension for correction for instruction vvhich is in righteousnes that the man of God may be perfect perfectly tiâ—tâ—d unto every good vvork These are the testimonies of the holy Ghost as your self vvil not dency and in them both faith and all good works are deduced from the scriptures and what more think you is needful for salvation with God â— how then is my assertion most false doe you not gave the lye unto the holy ghost Secondly I wish you to deal plainly distinctly with me my words as I endevour to do with you I hold the word of God to be absolutely necessarie as a means for maÌ„s salvatioÌ„ which is the â—rst point this word was first spoken afterwards writteÌ„ by men that weretâ—aried by the holy ghost To our first fathers the vvord spoken was necessarie sufficient whiles it was not written to us novv the written word is left as a necessarie mean or instrument sufficient to teach us Gods vvil bring us to salvation vvhich is the second point Against the sufficiencie hereof you except that this written word is not proved by an other written word vvheras before I have proved that the scriptures of God doe prov approve coÌ„firm one an other his spirit vvhich is in theÌ„m â—n al his people doth seal that they are true More sound sufficieÌ„t proof ther needeth not nor caÌ„ be had You relie upoÌ„ the church but I say vvith the Apostle if vve receav he vvitnes of mâ— the vvitnes of God is greater As yovv carp here at the vvritten vvord so did the faithlesse Pharisees as the spoken vvord yea at the eternal speaking vvord the son of God himself Thow bravest witnes of thy self sayd they thy witnes is not true Though I bear vvitnes of my self sayd Christ my vvitnes is true for I knovv vvhence I came vvnither I goe but ye cannot tel vvhence I come and vvhich â—r I goe Ye judge after the flesh Even so the scriptures bear vvitnes of themselves say I yovv accept not this theyr testimonie And vvhy doubtlesse because you knovv not vvhence they came you judge after the flesh Our Lord Iesus had the vvitness of Iohn Baptist other men many but he received not the vvitnes of men nor praise of men So the holy scriptures hav vvitnes of the church saincts in al ages but they receav not the vvitnes of men as that vvhich is most irrefragable Christ had greater vvitnes then Iohns for the vvorks vvhich he did bare witnes or him that the Father sent him So the works which the scriptures doo in the consciences of men bear witnes that they are of God The Father himself which sent Christ
the secret and mysterie of the Gospel so as none need to say in his hart who shall goe up into heaven or who shall goe down into the deep for the word is neer us in our mouth and in our hart even the word of faith which they preached And by them we learn that all scripture is the opneustos inspired of God profitable for doctrine for reprehension for correction for instruction which is in righteousnes that the man of God may be artios and exeâ—tismenos perfect and perfectly fitted unto every good work These also after vocal preaching did write their gospel that such as read mought beleeve and in beleeving might haue life through Christs name and that their joy might be full Wherfore as we are referred to the scriptures for assurance of our faith so also are we willed not to presume or be wise above that which is written This being the auctoritie and authentia of the scriptures as we are taught of God let us now weigh your reasons alleged to disable them Your first argument is Nothing is to be beleeved that is not taught or gathered out of the written word But that the Bible is canonical is not directly taught nor by evident consequence deduced out of the same Therfore it is not to be beleeved that the Bible is canonicall scripture The Major as you say is the coÌ„mon assertion of Protestants citing Calvin and the Apologie of the Church of England The Minor you say is approved by Hooker a principall Protestant I answer the pillars of your propositions being earth and ashes the whole frame and conclusion of your argument lieth in the dust I told you before we entred into this feild that it is Gods word not mans that I would trie and be tried by Wherfore you bet the aier in vain if by any mans auctoritie you think to supplant my faith Much lesse will I approve what every Protestant hath written So leaving others I return unto your self Your first proposition is too generall I grant many things may be beleeved though they be not gathered out of the written word but I hold not any thing needful to be beleeved for salvation with God but that which is taught by his written word Which perswasionâ— ground upon these and other like scriptures Ioh. 20. 30. 31. 2. Tim. 3. 15. 16. 17. Eccles. 12 11 12. Your second proposition I deney Your reason learned from M. Hooker 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is Fâ—â— if any book did give testimonie of all the rest yet the scripture that gives credit to all the 〈…〉 scripture to be credited neyther could we come to any paâ—se wheron to rest or assurance this way I answer Al scripture such as I rely upon is theopneustos inspired of God and therefore authentik and to be a canon and rule of our faith and actions To discern what scripture is inspired of God none is able but by the spirit of God For the Apostle sayth What man knoweth the things of man save the spirit of a man which is in him even so the things of God knoweth no man but the spirit of God 1. Cor. 2 11. Of this spirit God powreth out upon all his children some mesure without this spirit none can say that Iesus is the Lord though men should see all his mighty miracles and hear all his gracious words yet could they not be pâ—rswaded unless God opened their harts Therfore sayd our Saviour to Simon bar Ionas flesh and blood hath not reveled this unto thee that I am the Christ the son of the living God but my father which is in heaven And as of him so of all he sayth No man can come unto me except the father which hath sent me draw him Whither the word therfore be spoken or written it cannot be beleeved to be of God but by the spirit of God which therfore is called the spirit of beleef or of faith which spirit is joyned togither with the word in the Saincts as Isaias prophesieth who therupon are all taught of God have received as Paul sayth not the spirit which is of the world but the spirit which is of God that they may know the things which are given to them of God 1. Cor. 2 12. and it is the Spirit which testifieth that the Spirit is truth 1. Ioh. 5. 6. The whole word of God being of it self worthy to be credited and having testimony of the same Spirit which spake wrote it is also further confirmed by the power effect therof in the conscience peircing more sharply then any two edged sword and discerning the thoughts and intents of the hart The power majestie excellencie of the scriptures above all humane writings felt in the hart and confirmed by the spirit evidently prove to all that are Christs that they are of God and if from him then are they canonical the rule and mesure of our faith and actions these all doe bear witnesse one to an other the latter Prophets and Apostles commenting upon Moses the first divine writer Iohn the last coÌ„firming and abridging all other from the first in his heavenly Revelation The ear fayth Iob discerneth words as the palat tasteth meat for it self wherfore though the natural man discerneth no difference between Gods canonical and mans apocryphal scriptures yet the spirituall man discerneth all things and by testimonies of the scripture is able for to prove that the Bible is canonical contrary unto your Conclusion although perhaps he cannot perswade it to them which are carnal have not the spirit as the Apostle speaketh It this be not as I have shewed but we must rely upon men for the ground of our faith then would I know how you can perswade an infidel to beleeve Christianisme rather then Mahometisme to be the way of life For the Turk will say swear that the Alkoran is of God as the Pope will say of the new Testament And if mens voices shall cary it away our beleef in Christ is lost If miracles be alleged there is still the same controversie whither they be divine or divilish for hethens and idolaters have had miracles many and Antichrist as it is prophesied shal shall doe great wonders making fyre to come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men Your other allegations of antiquitie Vniversalitie c. wil not stop the mouth of Iuliâ—â— the Apostata but he will bear down Christianitie and restore Paganisme as being ancient and universal So there wil be no setling of the conscience til it come unto God and rest upon him alone and receive the plerophorian the full assurance by his spirit without which men can not discerne between the propheticall writings and the Iewes Thalmud between Christs Testament and the Turks Alkoran or between Gods oracle out of the Debir in Ierusalem and the Divils oracle out of his temple in Delphos Again as
spake otherweise as wanting light Our Saviours most holy doctrines vvere vvronged and depraved in the highest degree by Pharisees vvill you therfore conclude that his doctrine vvas not a true and indeficient rule of faith Bevvare of such pleading and learn rather of the Apostles vvho though men depraved the scriptures yet referred the Christians unto them as being able to make us vvise vnto salvation through the saith that is in Christ Iesus and to make the man of God absolute and perfect unto all good vvorks 2. Tim. 3 15. 1â— Fiftly and lastly you argue many mysteries of our faith 〈◊〉 beleeved that are not explicitly declared in the word of God 〈…〉 iâ—fallibly prescinding from al traditions of the catholik church 〈…〉 theÌ„ce so that they are sufficient to make one beleeve that 〈…〉 act as our faith requireth Therfore that which makes these mysteries worthy of constant beleef is a rule of faith as wel as the written word whither they be traditions divine or Apostelical The first part of this your argument I deney for neyther many nor any mysteries of our faith are without their due and sufficient proof from the holy scriptures You labour to confirm that you sayd thus because till Moses 〈…〉 word but men were taught by traditioÌ„ You allege also Exod. 14. thou shalt tel thy 〈…〉 Deut 〈◊〉 ask thy father and he wil shew thee c. Iob 8 ask the former generation c. Also how after our Saviours coÌ„ming the Apostles preached viva voce before they wrote c. Your first reason is altogither insufficient for though the scriptures could be no perfect rule of faith before they were written yet after the writing of them they mought be and so were You might as well say neyther tradition nor doctrine by lively voice could be a rule of faith before it was spoken You might also say the scriptures are not sufficient to make one beleeve any one mysterie of faith seing before Moses all mysteries were taught by voice The pattern of the Tabernacle shewed to Moses on the mount could be no perfect rule for him to build by before it was shewed Was it not therfore a perfect and sufficient pattern after it was exhibited Even so the scriptures now that they are written are a sufficient rule and assurance of our faith Ioh. 20. 31. 2 Tim. 3. 16. 17. Your other allegations out of Moses Iob wil serve much better for the Iewish traditions then for yours and confirm their Thalmud and Cabala rather then your papal decrees But the Apostles turned the Iewes from their vain conversation received by the tradition of the fathers and would not have them take heed to Iewish fables and coÌ„mandments of men that turn from the truth Our Lord also reproved the traditions of the Pharisees though received from their Elders Mat 1 2 3. c. by which you may learn God opening your hart that Israel was not left to unwritten verities for a ground of their faith but were to tel their children the works of God that they had seen and heard as we all are to doo ours and for a rule of their faith and life to teach them Gods written law This you may see by the 44. and 78. Psalms wher the fathers told their children such things as are written in the books of Moses Iosua c. which as they continued the rule ground of 〈◊〉 rough out the Prophets ages so Malachi the last Angel of the old Testament comendeth them to the memorie of the church even as from the first giving they were the inheritance of the same The power and authoritie of vvhich Lavv and Prophets vvas so great as our Saviour sayth hâ—â— that vvil not hear them neyther vvil they be persvvaded though 〈◊〉 from the dead agayn Bevvare therfore least vvhile you â—â—â—k to support traditions you supplant Christian faith for a levv vvil presse you by tradition to receive their Cabala as vvel as their prophets seing you have had these all from them cannot vvithout them by your ovvn grouÌ„ds tel vvhat is canonical scripture vvhat is not and they doâ— affirm that God gave to Moses a double lavv the one vvritten the other by vvoâ—d of mouth â—ambam 〈◊〉 Misnajoth Your particulars insisted upon for the equal 〈◊〉 of 〈…〉 persons in the god hed the baptising of infant the proâ—… hâ—ly Ghost the keeping of the Lords day the lawfulnes to â—at blood c vvhich you think can not be proved by scripture without tradition shâ—w that you are too much a stranger in Gods book for it afffordeth us sufficient proof for all of thâ—se And 〈…〉 us if we 〈…〉 without sure grouÌ„ds froÌ„ scripture shame would cover our faces before Arrians Anabaptists other heretiks if we should leâ— goe our 〈◊〉 foundation to build upon your sands As for other points of Masse for the dead c vvhich you mention upon certayne fathers credit as it hath no ground in Gods book so by the same it may easilie be refuted and what God condemneth no man can justify Wheras you all 〈◊〉 2 Thes. 2. and other like testimonies for traditions I readily grant you to accept all traditions divine or Apostolical for they were the coÌ„mandements of God but your church traditions I refuse for they are the institutions of mâ—n I grant you also that Paul taught more things by word then were written in that his Epistle but that he taught any thing as needful for salvation without warrant from the scriptures I deney or that the suÌ„m and effect of all that he taught be not in the Prophets his own and other evangelical writings If you wil not beleeve me beleeve himself who testifieth that he sayd none other things then those which the Prophets Moses did say should come beleeve an other Apostle which sayth thâ—se things are written that ye might beleev c. that in beleeving ye might have life through Christs name And wheras you wonder how men should deney the necessary vse of traditions asking if we will beleeve the Apostles why then we wil not beleeve them that lived in the Apostles dayes and such holy fathers as flourished shortly of er you may stay your wonder if you consider how Paul teaâ—hâ—th that the scripture is able to make a man vvisâ— unto salvation absolute and perfect unto every good work for now there is no necessary vse of other traditions unlesse it be for works that are too good and they be I trow work of supâ—rerogation You may also answer your own question if you mind how there lived in the Apostles dayes many vain talkers and deceiveâ—s of minds many false prophets that were gone out into the world and many Antichrists and how after their departing there entred in grâ—â—vous wolves Now seing such weeds flourished shortly after in the garden of the Lord is it not more safe for us think
Mr. I. A. I proposed to my self when first I began to answer you in these questions of religion the defense of the truth which God hath vouchsafed me mercy to witnesse and 2. the saving of your soul from death by turning you from your evil way vnto Christ if such were his pleasure Now although for this latter I have small hope left seing you so stiffly bent to keep the religion â— received by tradition of your fathers yet for the first respect I cannot be silent for I have still what to answer in the behalfe of God and of his written word against the reasons which you bring for the Pope and his Traditions The Lord guide my hart and hand vnto the mainteyning of his truth if it may be vnto the gayning of your soul. You first profess to have a reverend esteem of the scriptures which you set down I like well of But somewhat you want as That by the scriptures we come to beleive in Christ in beleeving may have life through his name Ioh. 20. 31 That by theÌ„ the man of God may be made wise vnto salvatioÌ„ may be perfect and perfectly furnished vnto every good work 2 Tim. 3. 15. 16. 17. and therefore that no man presume above that which is written 1 Cor. 4. 6. This if you graunt as you cannot with reason deny there wil be no necessary or profitable vse of your vnwritten traditions eyther for faith in Christ vnto life for wisdome vnto salvation or for any good work Whiles we therfore keep us to this heavenly light of Gods written word so commended by your selves though againe you disclaym it as not sufficient without your Popes traditioÌ„s I may say with Moyses †Their Rock is not as our Rock even our enimies being judges You devide your treatise vnto 7. parts The first thing which you promise is to shew that my reasons taken from the word of God doo vanish of themselves This you attempted before but were defeted let us see now what your latter thoughts doo bring forth For answer vnto Deut. 5. 32. you aske ‡ what I can inferr hence but that the law ought strictly to be kept that we ought neyther to add nor to take from the 10. commandements c. I answer you strayten the words too much in restreyning them to the 10. commandements for you may see before in Deut. 5. 4 -22 that the people themselves did hear the 10. commandements promulgated and â—durst here no more but prayed Moyses to goe neere and heare the rest what God would say and to declare all vnto them This he did and God told him all the commandements ordinances and lawes which they should doe in Canaan whereupon he inferreth that generall admonition v. 3â— 33. touching all the wayes of God and not the 10 commandements onely So your limitation being weighed in the Lords ballance is found too light You proceed and ask what this is to my purpose to prove that the written word alone is sufficient to decide all controversies I answer I did express my purpose was to prove this That God onely is to be the umpier and arbiter of all controversies about religion whither it were by his word written or unwritteÌ„ I stood not vpoÌ„ that in this first point This I told you plainly before if your purpose were not wilfullie to mistake and make needless coÌ„troversie you would not after warning have doon thus the second time Like fruitless labour you bestow to prove that the law of God should be explicated by the Priests c. A thing which I never doubted of yea I hold that the B. of Rome if he were as he ought to be should spend all his dayes in explicating Gods lawes to the people so should all Bishops in the world But Popes lawes devises traditions should neither be explicated nor once meÌ„tioned in the church without detestatioÌ„ You say such additioÌ„ is prohibited as is contrary to Gods law as appeareth Deut 4. 2. 3. where the idolatry with Beelphegor was punished for adding or diminishing as the text implies I answer though you costreyn the text to seem to help you while you set that before which Moyses setts after yet to let that pass I grauÌ„t that you say if you vnderstaÌ„d it wel For seing all additions to Gods law is forbidden whatsoever is added by others is contrary to Gods law Now all additioÌ„ is plainly forbidden Deut. 4. 2. and 12 32. Prov. 30. 5. Therefore nothing can be added by your Pope or any which is not contrary to the law of God Your Doctors whom you rely vpon tel you the same nothing is to be added sayth Ambrose no though it seemes to be good That which hath not authority froÌ„ the scriptures saith HieroÌ„ is as easily coÌ„teÌ„ned as allowed The answer you â— give to Deut. 12. 32. is what is here forbidden but an Hethen imitation and immolation of their children c. Is here any pro hibition of explicating the true sense of the law c. I answer you run into your former fault abridging the scope of the text To imitate the hethens was vnlawfull but to divise things of their own heads yea and to imitate God otherwise then he commaunded them was wicked also Proofe in Ieroboam who made a feast not like the heathens but like the feast in Iudah 1 King 12. 32. yet was it sinful and the holy Ghost brandeth him with forging the moneth out of his own hart v. 33. Many of your Popes idolatrous feasts have nothing so good a colour And your devised worship of Lord Lady Angels Saincts Popes Confessors c. is not onely an imitation of the hethens but an idolatrie worse then many of theirs as when we have ended these questions in hand I will vndertake to prove vnto you As for explicating the law I before approved it Your former reason from the 4. commandment you seek to vphold with a staffe of reed For when God gives many commandements why will you make the keeping of one to be the keeping of all In deed if he had given but one precept and men had given the rest it were somwhat that you say But they are all given by the same God to be our life and righteousnes if we keep them For man to add any thing to the 4 or to any or to all the commandements is an odious syn Mat. 15. 9. Whereas against all additions to Gods word I alleadged Prov. 30. 6. and Gal. 3. 15. to overthrow your fraudulent distinction you frame a reply to Gal. 1. 8. which place I produced not In Gal. 3 15. the Apostle sheweth froÌ„ the similitude of a mans TestameÌ„t that much more vnto Gods nothing may be added Against this you having nothing justly to except doo choose to your selfe an other place more easy to pervert What els dooth this bewray but the helplessnes of your cause
therfore unlesse you vvil renounce Christ and make Peter your Rock your God your Saviour that layd down his life for you to give you eternal life you cannot make him that one Pastor over the one fold of Iewes and Gentiles Wherfore neyther thrise nor yet once is Peter honoured with the stile of universal Pastor but onely is charged to feed Christs sheep as other Pastors also are required our Lord Iesus the great Pastor of the sheep hath given not one but many Pastors for this work Ephe. 4. 11. Having heard your reasons for Peters headship I exspected somewhat for your Popes pretended primacie but for this you shew no evidence froÌ„ Gods book you have none I trow so ancient Wherfore your position That the Popes definitive sentence as he is head of the church is an indeficient rule in matters of faith is farr as yet froÌ„ being proved And though this preeminence were yeilded for Cephas yet would I not grant the like for Caiaphas though Peter vvere the Rock on which Christs Church is builded yet your house may be situate on the sands for ought you have sayd to perswade the contrarie But let us see what the 3. point in your letter wil afford which now next foloweth Lastly and breifly you take upon you to shew that your Romane church is the true and onely catholik church of God that holy citie Apoc. 21. c. And first your church you say is catholik for in your memory you onely are catholiks in so much that the name catholik was hateful to a puritan or a protestant citing Beza D. Humfrie Sutcliff c. Your reason hath no weight What if others should say your church is the whore of Babylon Apoc. 17. because in their memory you only are lovers of that whore in so much that the name whore is hateful to a puritan or protestant Would you approve of this argumeÌ„t Yea but it is you say against the article of our beleef to deney the catholik church I answer we beleeve ther is a catholik that is an universal church no puritan or protestant I think denyes it But that your church of Rome or any other particular church in the world should be the universal or catholik church neyther faith nor reason dooth perswade Wherfore the auctors whom you cite mought vvel blame you for taking to your selves that ambitious title which never was given you of God If therfore you speak let it be as the words of God and if by his word you can say any thing to help you shâ—w it and by his grace I will hear Otherwise your assumed name Catholik moves me no more then the name Apostolik Prâ—â—tegiani corruptly called Prester John among the Ethâ—â—pians I know the Apostle Paul gave the church in Rome no such swelling title when he wrote therunto and if you would have your church called by a new name you should let the mouth of the Lord name it as sayth the Prophet Isa 62 2. except you would have it noted to be none of his Secondly you say your church is an ancient church and God is more ancient then the Divil truth then falshood c I grant your church is ancient but I deney it to be the most ancient Seing then the most ancient by your own grant is the most true bring â—orth the testimonies of your antiquitie and if in the particulars I shew more ancient testimonie then yow I will yeild But you procedâ— say If yow grant that once our church was the true church but stâ—ce it hath swarved from her ancient purity shew which Pope first gave place to the dâ—fects c. I grant there was a true church in Rome in tâ— Apostles dayes so was there in Ierusalem in Ephesus Corinth Colosse other cities many What their faith estate vvas I see in the most ancient records the Apostles aâ—s letters unto them What yowr faith estate is I see also by your late council of Trident other bâ—oks of yours maynteyning a religion unheard of in â—h Apostles dayes as in the particulars vvhen they come to be scanned after vve have ended these general grounds in hand I doubt not but to manifest Hovv Rome is come to be Lady mistresse of al churches I knovv not by any ancient record of the Apostles save by that mysterie opened unto Iohn in the vvildernes Apoc. 17. And if your Popes lives vvere in Gods record as were the Kings of Israel I could easily thevv which Pope first gave place to the defects c. but seing they are not recorded by him I vvil not preâ—ume above that vvhich is vvritten If upon mens report I should centure them I mought doo many good men vvrong They that are dead are gone to thâ—ir judgmeÌ„t have stood or fallen unto the Lord you that are livâ—ng must ansvvâ—r for your selves and your present state vvhich if you can not vvarrant by the vvord of God vvho liveth indu â—eth for ever your dead mens bones vvil be but slender pillars co underprop your church This I am sure of and testify unto you Our Saviour and his Apostles forecold of false prophets and of greivous vvolves that should come soon after and not spare the flock Who vvas the first vvolf in Ephesus vvho the first in Rome c I can not tel out if our Lord have given vs a true rule ye shall knovv them by their fruits vve may knovv your Pope not to be head of the Church unlesse of Antichrists your church it self to be Cos bi-bath tsur Falsitie daughter of a rock but not of Christ. Be not offended at my plain dealing vvith you it is a case of conscience and concerneth your salvation and my ovvn and I vvish your vvelfare as my ovvn Your conclusion neaping many praises upon your church many dispraises upon oâ—ns others that have forsaken her remayns hereafter unto due trial vvhen having finished these first questions begun you shall set dovvn arguments from Gods vvord eyther for your selves or against us In the mean time I obsâ—rve your dispute against us to have no more vveight or colour then as if the AEdomites or Ismaelites elder brethren to tâ—â— Israelites should have alleged their outvvard carnal privileges possessions against their poor brother Iaakob in AEgyptian bondage and after a pilgrim in the vvildernes or as if the Scribes and Pharisees should have pleaded for Annas and Caiaphas and their proceedings from Deut. 33 8 11. and other scriptures many against Iesus of Nazareth and his disciples I knovv he magnificence and pomp of the false church dazeleth the eyes of many her sorceries bevvitch many her fornications destroy many but her cup is ful of the vvine of vvrath and her lovers shal be cormented vvith her but those vvhom God loveth shal be delivered from her Wherefore serch in the book of God and read let his law be your light and make
not fleth your arm seâ—k wisdom as silver serch for her as for treasures so God may be intreated to shew you the way of life that you may escape from hâ—l beneath Which grace I wish and shall doo my andevour to procure unto you So rest I your freind for all Christian help to my power Henry Ainsworth Your letter I received the beginning of this moneth December 1609. and I write this the 23. of the same stilo veteri From Amsterdam Iohn Aynsworths reply To Mr Henry Ainsworth in Amsterdam Site audierit lucratus eris fratrem tuum S. Math. 18. I Perceive now by your second writing Mr Ainsworth your readynes to write but your vnreadynes to answer all the groundes of my discourse For where as still I pressed you with the authority vniform consent of those that lived in the Apostles times and were their schollers When I vrge you with the authoritie and most ancient record of hystories When we bring against you the whole body of councells and holy fathers the whole schoole of Doctors When we vrge you with the assertions of Luther Câ—lvin Beza I well Whitaker Hooker pillars nay first founders of the protestant religion out of whose neare withered stock the Brâ—wâ—â—sts are newly budded and even in the bud remaine as blasted by the breath of their own parents You think this answer sufficient that they were all men all dust and ashes and so erred saying lâ—t the fathers sleep As though the whole world had bene in a dead stâ—ep of error vntill this present age As though the Apostles own disciples that sucked knowledge froÌ„ their mouths had need to be discipled of you for their dangerous errors As though the Apostles themselves Dionisius Areopagita Egesippus Polycarpus Irenaeus Gregor Nazianz. Chrys. Tertul. S. Cypr S. Ambrose S. Hiâ—r S. Augustin were all deceived all hoodwincut so long in â—rror yea that the whole church that was promised to be the pillar of tâ—… that was seated on a roch should be swallowed up of hell gatâ—s for a thowsand five hundred yeares contrarn to the firm promise of our Saviour yea that Luther Calvin Bâ—za Iâ—wel Whitaker Humfrey c. these tymes grand Iurie men and Doctors were all d. câ—â—ved in giving up their verdicts And so decrived that they are of you implicitly condemned as hereticks Surely such a verdict can never win credit before any bar or tribunall in the world where so many eye and eare witnesses cannot be heard evidences and records of above a thowsand yeares of age are not admitted as currant where infinite Doctors and professors are refused in their own sciences to be beleeved When our adversaries own fathers freindes and adherents are held as partial and all testimonies of what condition soever braved with this that they were all but men that thâ—y have all erred What doe you Mr Ainsworth but teach me a way to answer whatsoever you can bring For I can say you are onely dust and ashes onely a man and lichlier sure to err then all they that have lived before you and then all men that live in this age with you Pardâ—n me in dealing so roundly with you for it proceeds through no aversion towards your person but onely to demonstrate the truth of my cause and the insufficiencie of your answer Now to descend down more particularly vnto your answer you â—arp first at my proceeding which I thought by a distinction direct enough at which you except as though direct and distinct are not in the sense I take them all one and so then to answer by a distinction is to give a direct or a distinct answer But you are like one that is even wearied ere ever he sets forth foot in journey therfore to make your journey the shorter you would conceive it onely in a continued and dead way deluding therby your self with imagination that your journey is shorter And therefore I think you in a confuse dealing seeme more fearful of the way to run then I that consider the questioÌ„ we are to handle by distinct points dividing my answer by the eye of judgement into distinct portions And therfore I answer you againe when you demaund of me what shall decide al controversies in religion whether the word of God or of man I answer you directly enough that by Gods written and unwritten word as by a formal motive we are to be tried and by the catholick church as by a propounding manner by way of circumstance necessarily required to show what is authentick and what is not canonica And so I hope this answer is direct and plaine ynough Aske a Philosopher what burneth and he wil tell you the fire and his qualitie but demaund how approximation of the subject concurreth without which the fire never naturally burneth and he wil tell you it is condicio sine qua non most necessarily required Ask a Philosopher who gives power to some hidden herb vnknowen to have his operation he will answer the nature of the herbe principally but what doth determine it hic et nunc to work he will answer the art knowledge of the herbalist that findeth out the secret nature of the herbe showes how it is to be applied and vsed to have his due operation So here I answer that Gods written and vnwritten word formally and principally causeth vs to beleeve but the church that propoundeth it as Gods word concurreth as an applying circumstaÌ„ce the church being the treasury of all truth the mediâ—â—â—e against all maladies the â—howse of truth showeth vs vnfalliblie what is to be beleeved and what is not And therfore you wonder without cause that I should answer by a distinction definition and distinction being the two eyes or guides of reason But now to proceed to the matter I intend briefly to show how my reasons that I gave to prove my assertion viz That onely the scripture is not a sufficient rule and an infallible guide of faith remaine yet for all your pretended answer in firme force unshaken 2. I intend to show how your reasons deduced out of the holy scriptures are not reasons in that they are wrested from that sense in which the holy Ghost spake them or meant them 3. As occasion shall offer I will touch your answer to the other questions leaving the exact and direct handling therof vntill this controversie in hand be ended First then you set down the first argumeÌ„t which I brought thus Nothing is to be beleeved that is not taught or manifestly gathered out of the written word But that the Bible is canonical is not taught or gathered out of the written word therfore it is not to be beleeved that the Bible is canonicall Mark then how Mr Ainsworth smooths up the matter that he hath giveÌ„ a sufficient answer when he answers that the pillars of our propositions are earth ashes and therfore the whole frame of my Argument lieth in the dust
a view how you mainteyn your proofs First you say I fayn would challenge the name catholik unto my self I answer this is not so The catholik church is the mother of al Christians of which I am an unworthy child but were not worthy to be named her child if I would challenge her title which belongs not to me nor to any her daughters the particular churches on earth Secondly you say that after I seem to refuse it because it is not warranted by the written word asking why I doo not as wel reject the name Trinitie aâ— I answer agayn the contrary to that you say is true for I proved and that by the written word which it seems you could not doo that ther is a catholik or vniversal church and if need were could bring many moe proofs Why then doe you injurie me so openly before the sun and then run on to dilate upon your own wilfull mistaking such dealing dooth not become any true member of the catholik church But you can shew us you say the prophesie of Isaiah fulfilled that the gospel is preached to all nations But we need not be shewed that by you for it is shewed us by the Ap ostle almost 16. hundred yeres agoe Rom. 10. 18. 16 26. The whole world you say is replenished with the fruit of your doctrine The more is the pitty if it pleased God for your doctrine is not the gospel but the Popes definitive sentences But this also we have been taught many yeres agoe As al the world wondred and folowed the first beast so the second did all that the first beast could doe before him and made all both small and great rich and poor free and bond to receive the mark The waters where the whore fitteth are people and multitudes nations tongues All nations have drunk of the vvine of the vvrath of her fornication Papisme is large Mahometisme larger Paganisme largest dispred in these our last and most dangerous days But our invisible churches you think are excelled farr by the Jewes visible meetings in sundry places But the woman that fled into the vvildernes vvas seen of God and dear unto him though she vvere hid from the visible Dragon and his persecuting Angels Esau had much more visible glorie then his poor brother Iaakob vvhen so many kings reigned in AEdom before any King reigned over Israel Fevv soules vvere saved in the Ark vvhen many perished in the syn-floud And this maketh many George Davids to deney the verity of the Bible beleeve the traditions of Babel because the promised visible destruction of the church of Antichrist is not yet performed But you Roman catholiks have all motives as you say of evident credibilitie as 1. all antiquitie Nay stay there the most antique records of the holy Prophets and Apostles you dare not stand to be tried by but shun them and flee to your late traditions and Popes definitive sentences So your church vvil be her ovvn judge vvhether she be a vvhore or no vvheras neyther Aholah nor Aholibah vvould give that sentence against themselves though men vvent unto them as to a common harlot but the righteous men judged them after the manner of harlots 2. Unitie not in the truth but in haeresie for your church hath by degrees from age to age so declined from the lavves of God that she is one vvith her self but become an alien from Christ. For proof vvheof let the ancient faith of the church in Rome vvheÌ„ Paul vvrot therto the nevv faith of the church of Rome decreed in the Council of TreÌ„t be compared togither and vve shall find as good unity betvveen them in many things as betvveen light darknes Besides vvhat unitie is in your religion the late broiles in England betvveen the Iesuites and the seculars to omit all former schismes that have been in Rome it sâ—lf may shevv Though by the Popes povvrfull hand they are novv tyed togither at least by thâ— tayles like the foxes in Palestina 3. Universalitie even as it vvas in the dayes of Noe vvhen the â—â—ood came and destroyd them all for so shall it be in the day vvhen the son of man shal be reveled Vniversalitie of abomination shal procure from God univorsal desolation for with her inchantments vvere deceived all nations 4. Disibilitie Even notorious to all that have eyes to see For if a citie can not be hid that is situate upon a mountayn hovv should not that citie be seen vvhich is set upon 7. mountayns on vvhose top your vvoman sayleth 5. Confirmed by the consent of Doctors for her merchants are the great men of the earth 6. By the institution of most holy religious orders for the vvomaÌ„ is arrayed in purple and scarlet and guilded vvith gold and precious stones and pearles in her house are peace offrings and the payeth her vovves and perfumeth her bed vvith myrrh aâ—oes and cinamon because Christs institutions and most holy orders are too mean and base for her royaltie 7. The conversion of nations for the inhabitants of the earth are drunken vvith th vvine of her fornication she hath caused many to fall dovvn vvounded and great is the number of all that are slayn by her 8. The power of miracles shewing great signes and vvonders that if it vvere possible the very elect mought be deceived but that all they may be damned vvhich beleeve not the truth but have pleasure in unrighteousnes 9. Infinite number almost of martyrs that have sealed her doctrine with their bloods c. for among her other merchandise are also the soules or lives of men vvhom she exposeth by sending into the nations to sovv her darnel and to sel her vvares till the kingdomes of the earth revvarding her as she hath revvarded them doo cut off these chapmen from land of the living Hovv be it she her self hath made many moe martyrs by killing Christs vvitnesses that have spoken against her as England France Germanie and many other nations testify for in her must be found the blood of the prophets and of the saincts Thus have I confirmed your notes by the scriptures vvhich you did set dovvn barely without proof that all men may see your markes may be shewed by the vvord of God Other apples there are vvhich your soules lust after all vvhich shall depart from you as God raiseth vp the vvitnesses of his truth against you But you proceed and say 2. You have a certaine visible and infallible way to decide all controversies which is the catholik church that propoundeth what is to be beleeved and what is not A sure vvay in deed vvherein you may vvalk safely till God rise up to judgement against you You boast to be the onely catholik church and to have the onely true beleef vve except against you by the vvord of God your church vvhich
faithful vvay of reasoning If as your maÌ„ner is you vvould have me to vnderstand it in the first I vvill so Then it is thus That which is not by it self known for Gods word cannot be tâ—e rule of faith This now I deny and your proof is vvanting The proof vvhich you make for it as you had set it down I admitt of concerâ—ing the vvord of God onely vvhere you extend Gods vvord to the definitions of the church c. I run not so farr vvith you But require you to prove your churches councils fathers definitions to be Gods vvord vvhich you doo not Your 2. proposition I deny for the scriptures by themselves vvithout your traditions may as easily be known for Gods vvord as the Sun in the firmament may be known to give light vvithout a candle This I vvill manifest hereafter Yoâ— seek to prove your aâ—â—ertion by authority of men That I refuse as insufficient by authority of Christ vvho theweth their religion to be vayn vvhich teach for doctrines the precepts of men Mat. 15. 9. Secondly you allege a reason Since we doo not see or heare God in his known Prophets to write or speak the word c. there must you say be one certayn rule or depositum fidei As 1 Tim. 6. 20. 2. Tim. 1. 13. 14. have thou a form of sound of words etc. whence you gather that Christians must keep acertain platforme of words delivered to them over and above Pauls epistles amongst which you name for one Transsubstantiation I answer first God his vvisdome power majesty truth c. are to be seen as evidently in the vvritings of the Prophets and Apostles as his eternall power and Godhead are to be seen in the creatures of the vvorld Rom. 1. Ps. 19. although Atheists cannot see these in the one nor Papists in the other Secondly as men doo not hear God vocally in his Prophets so if they did hear him in them or in Christ his sonn yet could they not beleeve vnless Gods spirit illuminated their harts Iohn 12. 37. 39. So your reason is against Christ himselfe as vvel as against the â—…pture Thirdly the church whereto you vvould send us when 1. â—ayth this is Gods vvord how shall men know it so to be any more then they knew the vvords that Christ spake to be Gods unless you lift vp your church above Christ. Fourthly vvhat church mean you Greek or Latine or AEthiopian and how shall men know Christs Church from Antichrists And if the Latin church tel us the fables of Tobit and Iudith are Gods canonicall scripture and the Greek church say they are nor but apocryphal vvhich of these shall vve beleeve Thus you vvould draw us into a vvilderness vvherein vve may loose all stay of faith and fall eyther into despayr or atheisme To those vvords of Paul I have answered before and to let pass your mistaking as if he did inioyn a sound of words as you vvrite further I vvould have you manifest if you can vvho are Timothees successors and vvith vvhom he left Pauls depositum as you call it And how a man may know your kenophonie and monstrous vvord of TraÌ„substantiatioÌ„ to be one of Pauls holsom vvords rather then the Lutherans Consubstantiation Your contending against the distinction vvhich I gave of beleeving things necessary to salvation and other things not necessary as whither Peter were ever at Rome or no and the like I leave to the judicious reader seing you cannot or vvill not vnderstand and rest in the truth Your marginall argument that The written word is not proved by an other written word therefore by tradition I reject as false and inconsequent so proved in my former vvriting You in reciting the scriptures vvhich I brought doo maym the texts to ease your shoulders In Iohn 20. 30 31. you leave out these words and that in beleeving you might have life through his name So in 2 Tim. 3. 16. 17. you neyther mention nor answer this that by the scriptures the man of God may be perfect and perfectly fitted vnto every good work Whereby â— proved that faith vnto life and every good vvork may be learned out of the scripture as I inferred When you cannot answer you call me the perverter of the holy Ghost Let the prudent judge Vnto your answers made to my evident demonstrations by the book of God that the scriptures and spirit of God are sufficient to prove and approve themselves to every conscience I need not make any replye but leave it vnto judgment But to help you if it may be I vvill breefly note your oversights 1. You allege my words sundrie times as if I had sayd Gods spirit is in all people vvhich I never spake nor thought but proved the contrary by Ioh. 14. 17. I sayd Gods spirit is in all his people vvhich if you doubt of see Rom 8. 9. 16. 1 Ioh. 2. 27. You barely say and prove not that in actu 2. the scriptures need testimony of others besides God and his spirit and themselves meaning your Church and Pope you seem to say the like of Christ himself as others of your side hâ—ve playnly spoken By which blasphemie God must be beholding to men Christ to the Pope that by their witness men may beleeve in Christ and his vvord The contrary is evident by Mat. 16. 17. flesh blood sayth Christ hath not reveled it vnto thee but my father vvhich is in heaven See also Gal. 1. 16. 17. and 2. 6. 9. 3. You are often vp agayn vvith your bastard phrase of the private spirit vvhereas al Gods children have the publick or catholick spirit if you vvill so call it as I playnly proved in my former vvriting you have nothing to say against it but that the spirit worketh otherwise in the head then in the foot vvhich is a manifest tergiversation vvhereof in due place 4. You cary your self in this passage about the spirit of God as a sish out of the element as having no relish or feeling of this heavenly grace whereat I much marvel not though I am sory for it Enter into your self and see by vvhat spirit you doo discern the Pope to be Christs vicar as you suppose and his traditions to be Christs oracles Will you not say it is by the spirit of God Now vve are assured that Christ is more able to furnish us vvith the spirit of God then the Pope is to furnish you That you perceive not Gods spirit to be in us but reproch us it is not strange for the vvorld as Christ sayth seeth him not neyther knoweth him Your fathers also could not perceive Gods spirit to be in Christ himself but sayd he had an vnclean spirit and we his servants are not better then our Lord. 5. So for the majesty of the scriptures shining as the sun in his strength by their majesty vvisdom harmony c. proving approving themselves one an
have been confounded and abolished and this hath been stablished against the forces of the divil and of the princes and powers of the world and sense of the flesh and naturall minde of man Al which doo manifest that these cannot but be of God The inward testification of God is by his Holy spirit which illumineth the mind to vnderstand the things given us of God writeth them in our harts and sealeth up the assurance of the promises that ar in them unto the beleeving conscience The secondary testimony that the scriptures ar of God is from men as First the Vniversal consent of churches in all ages of the Iewes first and after of the Christians in all places which have received beleeved and obeyed the Holy scriptures as the Oracles of God yea even Antichristians themselves acknowledge them to be from heaven Secondly the multitude of men that have given their lives for defense of these scriptures and doctrines taught in them yea even the heretikâ—s themselves who thought their errors were confirmed by these scriptures and therfore died in them are not excluded from this motive which is such as the like can not be shewed of any book under the sun The first outward proofs which God hath engraved in the scriptures themselves are sufficient to convince al men and make them without excuse For as the invisible thinges of God that is his eternal power and godhead are to be seen in his works the creatures Rom. 1. 20 so the invisible things of Gods word the powrfulnes wisdom and alsufficiencie therof unto mans salvation are to be seen in the Holy scriptures which they that beleeve not wil not be perswaded though one should ryse agayne from the dead Luk. 16. 31. And if God will damn the wicked that doo not by his works discern him and honour him as God much more wil he damn the prophane that doo not by his scriptures discern his holy wil and obey the same The inward testification by the spirit of God in the beleevers hart is for the comfort and assurance of every one that hath it not for any outward proof to others much less to the wicked which have it not neyther can perceive it In vayn therfore doth Mr. I. A. and the papists cal for manifestation of that which they can not discern and cavil against the spirit as not a due outward proof when we allege it not for that end Now wil I set down some motives which may draw any reasonable infidel if God shut not up his hart from understanding to come â—ather unto true Christianity with us the Reformed churches then unto Catholikisme or Popery with the Romists First we allege for the triall of our faith and religion the most ancient records in the world as Moses and after him the Prophets and the Apostles Euangelists first founders of ChristiaÌ„ religion through the earth But Papists dare not stand to these but allege for the triall of their religion later new records of Doctors Councills Popes c. Novv in all reason that vvhich is most ancient should be most true both as Gods lavv shevveth and as Tertullian also heretofore pleaded Secondly we allow al men by that common light and judgment which God hath graven in the hart of man which is the ground of al expositions to read hear examine and judge of our proofs reasons testimonies and therfore â—oâ— exhort al to have the scriptures and to peruse them and to try the spirits of al men But Papists allow not their ignorant disciples â—o read or hear the scriptures in their mother tongue nor to try their doctrines spirits which is a signe that they ar not of God but doo captive al mens judgments unto the definitive sentences of their Popes which is as if men should put out their own eyes that the Pope might lead them blind Thirdly the grounds which we build upon namely the Prophets and Apostles writings are both commanded of God and by Papists themselves the scriptures are acknowledged to be of God authentik and canonical so that we build upon the Rock even our adversaties being judges But their traditions and Popes decrees besides scripture are forbidden of God and allowed of none save themselves neyther doo vve acknowledg or can they ever prove them to be of God any otherwise then Mahomet may vvarrant his Alkoran or the Iewes their Thalmud Fourthly the writers of our grounds the Holy scriptures vvere all holy persons governed by the spirit of God and not any one of them vvas a reprobate But the writers and determiners of popish traditions have been many of them and that by the papists owne confession most wicked and vile persons that sold themselves unto syn and Satan al dayes of their life and got their popedomes some by simonie and bribes some by schisme and sedition and other like evil meanes Therfore in al reason they are nothing so vvorthy to be beleeved or rested vpon as the sacred vvriters on vvhome vve depend Fiftly the Holy Apostles Prophets to vvhose vvritings vve cleave preached not themselves but Gods law and Christ drew no man to subjection unto themselves but unto God sought not in their doctrines or vvritings their ovvn vvealth or vvorldly prefermeÌ„t sold not the Gospel nor made marchandise of it Wheras Popes on vvhose definitive sentences Papists doo rely preach themselves as wee declare sayth P. Boniface we define and pronounce that it is altogither of necessity to salvation that every humane creature be under the Byshop of Rome So other their traditions and definitions tend to the maintenauce of their own pomp dignity vvorldly vvealth and pleasures for their Popes bulls pardons and blessed reliks are set to sale for money so are their Preists masses and Trentals as the vvorld vvel knoweth and therefore of all naturall vvise men are justly to be suspected and the holy Prophets to be preferred much before them Sixtly the holy vvriters vvhom vve depend on are all of such authority and credit as vve admit of proof from any one of them because they all teach one faith and obedience Whereas Papists send men to Bishops Doctors Fathers Councils which disagree one from another so making great show of them to the simple wheras themselves as often as they lyst refuse the judgment and exposition of their fathers doctors c. as is to be seen in Cardinal Bellarmine and others that often doo refuse the sentences of the Fathers and conclude vvith the Council of Trent or definitive sentence of the Pope Seventhly the scriptures that vve build upon doo all agree and are â—one contrary one to another but hovv ever there â—ay seem contradiction yet they are easily even by themselves reconciled if men vvil labour in them But Papists have also for their rules of faith Apocryphal booke and fables vvherein are many open lyes and vnreconcilable contradictions against the Prophets as Tob. 12. 15.