their peace for euer This you nor can nor do deny To this day you put it in practise For according to such directions from higher powers The Bibliotheca Saint Patrum was last yeare printed at Cullen Shamelesse Mountebancks that obiect that to others whereof themselues are notoriously guilty But it seemeth this man did as the tale is a wench once gaue her mother counsell to doe A brace of neighbours women by sex scolds by profession falling out after they had passed some ordinary language saith a daughter of one of them to her mother Oh Mother call her where first least she call you so and prooue it Haue you heard of this good counsell I am sure ye follow it to an heire It is your profession to adde diminish alter change to aequiuocate your selues and teach your Authours so to doe notoriously For feare wee should iustly lay it to your charge you preuent vs and cast it in our teeth But play the honest man once in your dayes name where when how by whom this hath beene done I name your selfe guilty of this cousening trick and name for false and ridiculous interpretation the 1. of Saint Luk. 8. 9. and Leuit. 16. 17. in the sixt Proposition For adding to Math. 9 8 in the eleuenth Proposition For diminishing Phil. 2. 30. in the fourteene Proposition Tria are not omnia but enough to shame you if you be not past grace and shame In briefe your whole booke is compacted by this art For 39. of these Propositions are no doctrines of the Church of England those that are are vnfaithfully handled By ambiguity by adding to taking from peruerting of sense and meaning this little Pamphlet is meerely made Detract these particulars not so much will remaine as with a whole impression to stop one mustard pot I shall not need actum agere here I haue discouered your false play in particulars hereafter This is to imploy I â—rowe mans wilinesse if not wisedome to serue the diuell both are bad but yet better it were to employ mans wisedome in stead of the word For true wisedome is of God wheresoeuer or howsoeuer Lying is you haue heard from whom the father of lyes that graund Paedagogue in the Iesuite schooles brought you vp a good Proficient in this faculty you may sing a song of degrees there in medio chori according to your progresse from our twenty seuerall Bibles and their manifold varieties to their more Corruptions and Falsifications to darken and obscure the truth and yet those also handled sophistically and contrary to the mind of all antiquity nor only so but neuer produced without some tricke of adding diminishing or changing by interpretation that the old saying may take hold vpon the Gagger Qui semel verecundiae fines est transgressus eum grauiter oportet esse impudentem Sir know this Our profession is not such as yours is our practise answerable to our profession We protest you say and we doe so indeed that The word of God containeth all that is necessary to saluation Your sarcasticall irony shal not beate vs from it And therein we say no more then Saint Paul in that well knowne place of 2. Tim. 3. 16. 17. The whole Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God and is profitable to teach to improoue to correct and to instruct in righteousnesse that the man of God may bee absolute being made perfect vnto all good workes For to know God in Christ is life eternall Ioh. 17. 3. That is the way vnto and meanes whereby to attaine eternall life The absolute direction for that way is Ioh. 20. 31. These things are written that you might beleeue that Iesus is Christ the Sonne of God and that in beleeuing yee might haue life through his name These are moe texts then one and without adding diminishing or changing ought by interpretation as expresse as words can make them that all things necessary vnto saluation are conteyned in the Scripture Yet farther to be inforced by this reason Saluation is the end of reueiled knowledge from God If that knowledge be not sufficient God is defectiue in proportioning the meanes vnto the end intended which auouch if you can without blasphemy If man adde any thing to it as defectiue or detract from it in the materialls or alter and change it against minde and meaning we may well enquire quo warranto he doth it and condemne his presumption as enormious An Embassadour hath commission and instructions from his penne according to them he must proceede Differ hee must not vpon life nor change the state and tearmes of his direction so farre as to come short of to exceede vpon to be thwart vnto and against the maine of the busines negotiated Explane he may adde detract in words alter phrases or occurrences according as occasions are so he hold the maine and keepe close to the meaning and direct vnto the end of his negotiating still Circumstances sometime may alter much this point discretion must regulate as it may but substances altered make a maine change indeed aliud and aliud not aliter If we say it is not lawfull for men nor Angels to adde diminish or alter ought thereof we meane for the maine and substance of the Gospell we intend not such a precise obseruance as not to say Rites for ceremonies statutes for ordinances Church for congregation and such like or vice versâ And therein we say no more then Saint Paul himselfe hath said in so many words an other expresse text for another point of our false doctrine Gal. 1. 8. Though we or an Angell from heauen preach vnto you otherwise then that which we haue preached vnto you let him be accursed Otherwise so as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thereby to corrupt and abolish the Gospell Now this is not onely when they preach contrary and amolish the whole 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if they alter and change some small obuious thing saith Chrysostome and his reason is The Scriptures were commended to vs by God the Lord of all Men and Angells are but seruants whose commendation is to doe his will This precise obedience hath that warrant yet further It is better to obey God then man If men stand ad oppositum to God But we are not thus perswaded of Antiquity We nor vse them so nor speake so of them We command not our followers vtterly to renounce all antiquity customes multitude humane wisedome iudgements decrees edicts or councells The Councels of Trent of Florence of Laterane are not all Councels We refuse them as factious as bastards as partiaries as hauing nothing but the names of Councels You refuse moe Councels then we doe in the foure first so highly commended by your owne Gregory you presume to prescribe you reiect and retaine what you please We accept them absolutely sans exception We may as well presse you with the Sinods of Gapp and Dort as you vs with Trent and diuers others Edicts and Decrees and Imginents
Iesus Christ with an oath which was peccatum lethale as Saint Augustine prooueth in his 66. Tractat. vpon Saint Iohn Chirst prayed for him that his faith might not fayle But his Prayer was for the end not the act That hee might not fall finally and hee did not but not that not totally for so hee did His infirmitie appeared in his fall Gods mercy was seene in his restauration Simon Magus was an Heretique an Arch-heretique the father of Heretiques and first begotten of the Deuill yet Simon Magus was a Christian once and baptized and belieued and brought forth fruits of new life and followed Philip a certaine time He belieued it is said but not truely It is not said he belieued not truely Saint Luke saith hee belieued in the same termes with the same words to the same intent and purpose that hee speaketh of others that belieued truely constantly Where the Holy Ghost putteth no difference what man hath any warrant to distinguish The Scripture doth not so much as insinuate the hypocrisie of Simon Magus then and what is hee that would haue his nay belieued before Saint Lukes yea Iudas was a Reprobate and cast away for euer Our Sauiour calleth him the Sonne of perdition and saith it had beene good hee had neuer beene borne Yet Iudas was numbred with the twelue Apostles had all the Prerogatiues which they enioyed God gaue him to Christ as well as Peter or Iohn And if hee perished onely in the number of them that were giuen vnto Christ doubtlesse hee was first ranked in that number and perishing ceased to be of that number as ceasing to be of that number he perished Beside if Faith had cannot be lost the Dogge cannot be said to returne vnto his vomit nor the Swine to wallowing in the myre If righteousnesse had cannot be lost why doe wee pray continually against that Leade vs not into temptation Why did the Apostle chastice and bring vnder his body least he should become a cast-away Why should hee admonish as hee doth Hee that standeth let him take heede lest hee fall And Worke out your Saluation with feare and trembling Againe say they totally it may be lost for Faith is an adhesion vnto God Sinne seperateth man from God and maketh a diuision in that first Coniunction but by repentance it is againe restored and recouery gayned after fall Totally lost is not then euer finally eternally nor ineuitably lost For yet wilt thou returne and refresh mee and bring vp my life from the gates of death againe And as the Tree that is cut downe at the stemme so long as the stocke remaineth in the ground yet by the sent of waters it will recouer saith Iob and againe shew forth the branches So so long as men in the Church haue meanes in Christ it is possible to be renued by Repentance Possible they say Necessary say some because of that necessitating purpose of God whereby hee is saued and could not perish that was appointed vnto life vnchangeably So then they teach that are thus perswaded Faith totally may be lost Faith totally lost may eternally be lost and also not be lost eternally though totally for a time Because God againe will restore them to Grace and except hee would doe so they could not rise to Grace but because his will is not put into practise by his power he necessitateth no man so irreuersably vnto life nor death those that haue lapsed totally may also perish finally It will be vrged by them which is here said by you What needes there any further proofe where holy Scripture is so plaine and they graunt in a case so fully cleared and resolued in Scripture no further proofe needeth as necessarily required yet for illustration and assurance a concurring assent of many is requisite of congruitie Wherfore they bring Fathers for their purpose Ignatius the ancientest this day extant of whose writings there is little or no question in his Epistle to the Magnesians pag. 26. diuideth mankinde into two sorts of Coynes as hee speaketh there and explicating his meaning saith hee doth not so intend it as if hee meant two distinct Natures in man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. That one and the same man is sometime the Childe of God and againe the Childe of the Deuill If hee liue godly he is a man of God if wickedly the Childe of the Deuill not so by Nature but from his owne depraued will And speaking elsewhere of constancy in persecution saith Albeit I am exceedingly strengthened in God yet ought I to feare so much the rather And againe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I doe not know whether I am worthy or not Clement in his Constitutions 5. 26. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The Holy Spirit is continually assistant with those that possesse him so long as they are worthy so to haue him From whomsoeuer this holy Spirit is diuided Hee leaueth them destitute and forsaken and deliuered vp vnto the wicked Spirit I know the Author is questioned vpon his honestie at least hee is ancient but I hold him honest and perswade my selfe I can proue him so to be as hee seemeth for my part Tertullian in de praescript Cap. iij. Et hoc mirum opinor vt probatus aliquis retro postea excidat Saul bonus prae ceteris liuore posteà euertitue Dauid vir bonus secundum cor Domini postea caedis stupri reus Salomon omni gratiâ sapientia donatus à Domino ad Idololatriam à mulieribus inducitur Soli enim dei filio seruabatur sine delicto permanere As if it were a thing so strange that any Man approued by God should afterward relapse from Grace Saul a man better then the rest was ouertaken and vndone at length through Enuy. Dauid was a good man and according vnto the Lords heart yet afterward guilty of murther and adultery Salomon inducd with all grace and wisedome from the Lord was by women brought ouer vnto Idolatry For why it was reserued to the Sonne of God alone to be without sinne What then if a Bâ—shop a Deacon a Virgin a Widow a Teacher a Martyr haue swarued from his rule shall Heresie therefore haue the better of Truth Doe wee estimate and approue Faith by Mens Persons or not rather Persons by Faith Onely the faithfull man is a wiseman Onely a Christian man is of account No man is a Christian but he that continueth vnto the end Thus farre he Cyprian is through for the point Epist 7. Parum est adipisci potuisse aliquid Plus est quod adeptus es posse seruare sicut fides ipsa Natiuitas salutaris non accepta sed custodita viuisicat Nec statim consecutio sed consummatio hominem Deo seruat Dominus hoc magisterio suo docuit dicens Ecce sanus factus es sani noli peccare nequid tibi deteriuâ— fiat Puta hoc illum Confessori suo dicere Ecce Confessor factus es sani noli
beyond it against it without it So Damned or Saued are so ordained by God Whatsoeuer God willeth commeth to passe and whatsoeuer commeth to passe commeth so to passe because God hath said So and not otherwise it shall come to passe either positiuely by disposing it or else permissiuely by giuing way and suffering it so to come to passe as it doth come to passe This his will as nor himself began not in time it is and was eternall as he is euer I am not I will be or haue bin Whatsoeuer is done in processe of time was so seen so disposed of and ordered before all Time for he is not measured but by Eternity which is Tota simul perfecta possessio sui The totall and perfect possession of it self If then there bee Damned and Saued as there are God's eternall will did so determine of them their finall estate from all Eternity and after that determination of God they are damned or saued ineuitably not onely according vnto Prescience but also according to Predestination say the Roman schools in which this Fellow would seem to haue sent some idle houres after their fleeing Predecessors What then Why surely the poore man meant well to the Catholique Cause and would say somewhat though no matter what which he did not vnderstand nor could vtter He thought well though he could not handsomly tell his Tale which should haue been marshald thus That God by his sole will and absolute decree hath irrespectiuely resolued and ineuitably decreed some to be saued some to be damned from all Eternity Man in curiosity hath presumed farre vpon and waded deep into the hidden Secrets of the Almighty no-where more or with greater Presumption than where that grand Apostle stood at gaze with O the depth and in consideration cried out How vnsearchable are his waies who yet was admitted into Councell of State and rapt vp into the third heauen In the point of Election for Life and Reprobation vnto Death Protestants and Papists are many wayes at oddes in opposition and each diuided at home amongst themselues not for the Thing which all resolue but for the Manner in which they differ agreeing in the Main that It is so disagreeing on the By How it cometh so as if God meant to reserue no Secrets vnto himself but impart them all to men as if it were not enough to saue some and cast others off but he must giue account of dooing so Some Protestants and no mo but some haue considered God for this effect of his will in reference to Peter and Iudas thus that Peter was saued because that God would haue him saued absolutely and resolued to saue him necessarily because hee woâ—ld so and no further that Iudas was damned as necessarily because that God as absolute to decree as om 〈…〉 ipotent to effect did primarily so resolue concerniâ—g him and so determine touching him without respect of any thing but his owne will insomuch that Peter could not perish though he would nor Iudas be saued doo what he could This is not the doctrine of the Protestants the Lutherans in Germany detest and abhorre it It is the priuate fansie of some men I grant but what are Opinions vnto Decisions priuate Opinions vnto receiued and decided doctrines The Church of England hath not taught it doth not beleeue it hath opposed it wisely contenting herself with this Quoúsque and Limitation Art 17. We must receiue God's promises in such wise as they be generally set forth to vs in holy scripture and not presuming to determine of When How Wherfore or Whom Secrets reserued to God alone So this Goose the Gagger may put his Gag into the Bils of many of his owne Gaggle as well as into others Lagges who presume as farre and wander as wide sometime as they do though more couertly in their tearms Our Bible in expresse words saith what we beleeue it teacheth not contrary to that which is resolued in the Church of England the positiue doctrine wherof is no other but what this Wittall confirmeth out of Scripture that God at the beginning made not death as Wisd 1. 13. because she hath learned out of S. Paul that Through sinne death came into the world whereof God was neither Aurthor nor Abettor but Hee the Father of lies a Lier a Murderer from the beginning in procuring the Fall of man Sinne being entred and by sinne death and so all mankinde in the Masse of perdition God fitted and prepared a Restorer a Mediator the Man Christ Iesus that so Whosoeuer beleeued in him should not perish but haue euer lasting life out of his mercy both free and meer because he was not willing that any should perish but all should come vnto Repentance as 2. Pet. 3. 9. and be saued So large was his Mercy so enlarged his Loue that out of his good pleasure it was his will All men to bee saued and to come to knowledge of the Truth Shew a contrary resolution of the Church of England and gag vp my mouth Sir Goose for euer else goe gaggle on the Green For particular opinions So or so aetatem habent let them speak for themselues and so be it they rent not the peace of the Church let them abound in their priuate senses I nor teach nor beleeue any such Paradox nor the Church whereof I am and you should be a Member positiuely Wee need see no more except to more purpose the places are adrem but touch not vs. They speak home and to purpose which they should declare but we are not interest in opposition Vrge them against those who do vndertake to maintain that men are damned necessarily See Fathers we may but wee shall not need wee beleeue what they should say and go hand in hand with what they doo say dogmatically but see them all we cannot if we would vnlesse we would go seek when we need not and if wee would might blowe the seeke for some of them and after long search be neuer the neer in finding them For Saint Augustine what or where wil you tell vs or are you able to informe vs that hee affirmeth You mean he affirmeth somewhat in his first Book of the City of God and I knowe he doth more by much than you can report me You haue had some acquaintance with some Particulars there as you met them by chance in your perambulation of some trans-scripts of other mens Notes and haue now forgotten where and what Else what man but such a Scribbler would so loosely in a point of opposition and therefore like enough of examination haue referred vs to Saint Austen in his first Book de Dei Ciuitate Something you would say I knowe not what and therefore till you let me knowe I say nothing to what you haue said I cannot tell how I haue seene and read Tertullian in that place remembred expounding that Petition in our Lords Prayer Lead vs not into temptation who
no purpose And indeed to no purpose for Mat. 17. 3. we read There appeared vnto them Moses and Elias talking with them which apply to your Thesis No Saint deceased hath appeared vnto any and aduise how handsomely it agreeth thereto For doo you not knowe or haue you heard of it that Moses by some Authors is reputed not dead as by Hillary Can. 20. vpon Mathew by Saint Ambrose in his second Book of Cain Abel but translated by God into Paradise as Helias was afterward asserted of late by no Babies of your owne Ioh. Arboreus lib. 11. Theosophias and Ambrose Catharine vpon Gen. 3 If that bee so you may go seek a new Text to prooue apparitions of dead men by It will be answered These were not dead For if Moses be liuing Elias is sure you hold him yet aliue and why not both aliue seeing both must come and oppose against Antichrist and bee slaine by him before Dooms-day Mend your conclusion and make it thus Therefore Saints haue appeared to some on earth and I will warrant no man will quarrell your assertion But your second Text of Mat. 27. 52. cometh home to your minde They were Saints indeed deceased but restored to life and peraduenture vnto eternall life in bodies as well as soules They appeared vnto many the Text is plain and I beleeue you neuer met with any such that when you shewed this Text would deny their appearing which is expresse And yet it is not well applied by you for your apparitions as I conceiue it inform me if I doo mis-take you are not in bodyes restored to life or raised vp out of the dust but in bodies assumed or some other way These men appeared in their owne bodies which were laid into and rose vp out of the graues and so not very fitting your purpose As for Onias the high Priest who beeing dead appeared vnto Iudas Macchabeus let him iustifie it that hath written it If he report the story as it was very good it may be done I see nothing to the contrary if not true no great hurt at all your puling-whining soules in Purgatory get nothing by the bargaine That some Saints deceased haue appeared For these were in Heauen of which there is constat for their appearing at least prooue you they were in Purgatory to which your apparitions tend But the truth is there are many Schoens Parasangs betwixt those wōdrous works of God and those iuggling tricks in the Romane Church deuised onely to make the Priests pot to seethe and fill the Popes purse by collusion XXVIII That the Saints deceased know not what passeth in the Earth SPeake out and speak plaine What mean you by what passeth All things that are done on earth in al places at al times by all persons ordinarily of themselues or som saints som things in som places at some times by some persons extraordinarily by reuelation or some such like meanes No Protestant will deny the one no Papist hath hitherto dared affirme the other Dare you abide by it if you doe take vp the bucklers and see what will follow Your generall position will beare eyther interpretation Wee affirme that all Saints departed knowe something on Earth as namely The beeing of a Church That some Saints departed knowe something heere done extraordinarily by reuelation intimation or otherwise As your position is captiously put downe so is your first proofe from the Text of Luke 16. 29. Sophistically affixed There Abraham knew that there were Moses and the Prophets bookes in earth which hee himselfe had neuer seene Indeed Abraham was dead long before Moses wrote And after Moses wrote till the time that Abraham answered thus if it were an History and not a Parable were many mo hundred yeeres In all which time no Protestant will deny but Abraham might know when he was in Paradise that God had left such bookes vnto Israel Now this is not ad idem nor prooueth the question For your position is what passeth not what hath passed your proofe is for what hath passed and not for what passeth A maine difference betwixt these two I cannot tell what you intend to write next but I can tell you haue plaid the Goose in your Gag and hereafter when your worthy work putteth forth head to view I shall bee able to say what Animal it is Abrahā knew som 2000 yeers after his death Put the case so that Moses the Prophets were in the hands of the Iewes and directors of them in their course vnto God therefore Abraham knew what Rabbi Gamaliel taught Saint Paul such a day in his Auditory Is this a good consequence now in your Logick A coozener a cobler might reason so Yet this is your reason cap apee I answer directly First Abraham's case is not euery mans Secondly Abraham's knowledge might bee extraordinary our Quaere is of ordinary knowledge Thirdly Abraham might know in long tract of time which he could not so at an instant and wee make question of present knowledge for that is required vnto your purpose onely That which S. Augustine witnesseth we deny not that which we deny hee witnesseth not Hee witnesseth there that Abraham knew of Moses He telleth not how he came to know of Moses nor what Abraham or Moses can know touching vs. In the next as much ridiculous Iohn 5. 45 our Sauiour there telleth the Iewes thus Do not think that I will accuse you to my Father There is one that accuseth you euen Moses in whom you trust Vpon citing this Text it may seem the man was som what conscious that it was not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it should bee expresse that the Thesis was of knowing what is done vpon earth the proofe of accusing vnto God in heauen Therefore to help it we haue an argument a consequence inferred vpon that Antecedent thus How could Moses dead 2000 yeeres before accuse those that were liuing if the Saints deceased knowe not what passeth in the earth If so then take heed that Moses accuse not you for a fool as very an one as euer went without the priuiledge of a bable who so childishly imagine that God set in iudgement the Iewes were arraigned euery mothers sonne And Moses did as the diuell with Iob came and accused them euery one in particular of euery crime committed for so it must be Doubtlesse Moses had worke enough to doe especially in those last worst tumultuous times You should haue let vs knowne who was of their Councell who their Aduocate against Moses and whether it came to a demurrer or not But good man Wiseacres learne of your Masters to take things aright By Moses is not vnderstood his person then in Paradise dead or aliue but Moses writings the Law of Moses that in which the Iewes did so much trust So it is not personall it is instrumentall his writings accuse you and will condemne you So Caietan Maldonate and who not or if personall Moses himselfe
Augustine of your owne And doo you mark it that I say your owne for this Saint Augustine is none of mine It is ser 29. in which this passage is not 39 as you mis-report it which is a Counterfet vnder S. Austen's name as the Louanists and other your owne men obserue There is a Commemoration of Saint Peter ' s chain you keep an Holi-day in memory thereof Augusti 1 and yet Saint Peter ' s Chain as Baronius obserueth was not found vntill Saint Augustine was dead Had the man been as he would seem Saint Augustine yet might hee haue been deceiued in his collection as wel as in somewhat else noted by Lorinus that hither tendeth For de Catechis rudib 23. he deliuereth that The shadow of Saint Peter passing along in the streets restored a dead man to life Do you finde this written in your Bibles I suppose not S. Augustine did without doubt in his or how is it that he saith it Therfore the Papists Bible hath left something out aswell as the Protestants Look vnto it and answer it as you can Acts 19. 11 12. And God wrought speciall miracles by the hands of Paul so that from his body were brought vnto the sick handkerchiefs and aprons and the diseases departed from them and the euill spirits went out of them Therfore what Vertue proceeded from Saint Paul when he was dead I deny that for Saint Paul was then aliue and aliues like Therefore this is for the liuing not the dead And yet take mee not so that I deny the thing Vertue may proceed from the true Saints of God dead and aliue I deny your proof and wonder at your wit that can go ab equis ad asinâ—s so easily as if both were fit Inmates for such an Animal as your self Asse Horse you for such prouender S. Chrysostome might very well inferre vpon the passages of Saint Peter and Saint Paul that Christ their Lord and Master was truely God whose seruants in his Name and by his Power nay their shadows and napkins did such wonders for Could any man do so except God were with him But all this winde shakes no corn First this vertue was not inherent onely incident Secondly it was miraculous so peculiar Thirdly it was Then those Times are done those napkins gone into Materia prima Shew such napkins or shadows and wee yeeld For no man doubteth what hath been done or may be done we go no further than to what is See more you so direct vs and wee had need or else we shall see your proofs by halues for hitherto wee haue onely heard of vertue proceeding from the Dead nothing touching keeping of Bones and Reliques Now haue at them or else neuer and indeed neuer for Ioseph's bones were carried by Moses out of Egypt What then Therefore bones of holy men may by warrant of that be digged vp shrined and preserued Happely they may in some cases but not therefore for this was a singular Fact which are no precedents for generall rules One Swallow maketh not Summer nor one Woodcock Winter but among Birds of that Bill and Feather Secondly as it was singular in Fact so speciall in Reason There was a Tie vpon Israel to doo that which they did Ioseph dying had bound them with an oath to do so Had our Lady so bound you for her smock or her milk you were excused Thirdly they carried them thence not to keep them which is your Tenet much less to shrine them or adore them which is your practice but to bury them in the Land of Canaan which they did Ios 24. 32. Doo you in like sort and wee applaud you with your Reliques So we see in this first place no more than wee looked for nothing to purpose nor in the second 2. Reg. 4. 8. Eliseus taketh vp Elias cloak that fell from him and wrapping it together smote the waters of Iordane which parted asunder A Text seeming to say somewhat for Elias cloak is Relictum a Relique to Eliseus and he took it But this is verse 14. not 8. but not yet a Relick for our purpose For what he did with it is not remembred it is like enough Eliseus wore it out We read not what he did with it whether he laid it vp and left it to posterity to be adored vnless you can prooue this you say nothing otherwise in your sense it is no Relique For keeping and adoring is all in all for them But let it be kept Eliseus did no more than I or any Protestant else should haue done For you mistake vs. The Reliques of Saints are not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with vs we dishonour not their garments much lesse their bodies hauing beene the Temples of the holy Ghost beeing againe to bee raised from the dust and be made like Christs glorious body By and in them at sundry times God hath miraculously magnified himselfe in his Power as when the body of Babylas made the Oracle mute in despight of Iulian that Renegado Then especially when there was great cause when Paganisme Persecution Opposition swayed for the manifestation of that Truth which in them by them had beene propagated Shew any such Relique and see what wee say vnto it It is naturall for any man to affect the remembrance or memorials of a friend to admire and make much of rare things not euery day seene Bring mee then a piece of the Crosse of our Sauiour one of the Nailes or some such memoriall of his Passion shew mee Moses Râ—d Saint Peter's Sword I will prize them aboue all the Iewels I can haue Will this content you I know no Protestant will doe lesse then so Worship them I dare not Shew them as you doe I would not as men do monsters in Fleet-street or Sturbridge Faire in this you abuse them too profanely making merchandize of the Word of God In that you profane them to Idolatry misleading the People to adore them This did not Antiquity nor doe wee In the Primitiue Church Memoriae Martyrum were in great esteem The place where they suffred or else where they were buried Heere commonly their Church-meetings were for diuine Seruice for receiuing the Sacraments with commemoration of their Passion and a collation to follow their noble Acts which was seconded with this opinion that those blessed Soules themselues by speciall grace and dispensation of God took notice of that generall Act of the whole Church and accompanied their deuotions with their own best assistance vnto the Maiesty of Heauen But times are changed mens manners altred Those Saints Reliques Memories and Oratories of the true Saints of God gon no where to be found coozening colluding fraud impiety come in place The miracles memories reliques of Saints in your Romane Church are all of them knowne to bee iuggling tricks of deceiuing knaues and if Saint Martin were aliue againe hee might finde out onely one mans Reliques but many thousands to bee the bones of theirs that died at the
in that sort as our Masters tender it vnto vs to bee beleeued at this day XLII That there is no Purgatorie fire or other prison wherein sinnes may bee satisfied for after this life NOt resolued of by Antiquity out of Scripture nor determined by Scripture olde or new as certaine and necessarily to be beleeued You say Yes therefore we contrary the expresse words of our owne Bibles 1. Cor. 3. 13. The fire shall try euery mans work of what sort it is Is this so expresse in your opinion Sir Gagger It seemeth not for neither haue wee your Therefore c. for the conclusion nor your ordinary expresse words but barely thus Contrary to their owne Bible Your conscience checked you or did Bellarmine stumble you or what is the cause you faint in your Euidence Bellarmine confesseth it is one of the hardest places in Scripture And such are not expresse Directors or Concluders therefore no good proofes in points of faith without euident conspiring of some more perspicuous place For points of faith must haue manifest assurance to proue obscurity by more obscurity your Logick can tell you if you haue not forgot it is a fault Wee doubt and make a question vnto you of Purgatory Your Euidence for it is from that of which wee more doubt at leastwise as much as wee doe of Purgatory For beside the confession of the Master of controuersies and the diuers senses and expositions by him confessed and produced the latest I think I am sure one of the learnedst of your owne expositors Estius both confesseth as much and resolueth against your intent for Purgatory out of this place The Fire saith hee which the Apostle in this discourse hath named three seuerall distinct times is variously expounded by diuers men Augustine and Gregory vnderstand it of the afflictions of this life as in the 65. Psal We haue passed through fire and water Others take it for Hell fire Some for Purgatory Some for the fire of Conflagration which shall eyther proceed or accompany Christ the Iudge at the day of Doome Others imagine a threefold fire answerable vnto fire thrice named by the Apostle The first that fire of Conflagration The second the fire of Gods seuere Iudgement The third of Purgatory an absurd interpretation saith your owne Estius the fire is the same in all places saith hee That fire is eyther that of Conflagration or Gods seuere Iudgement or both according to the opinion of Caiâ—tan no Protestant in his owne opinion rather that of Conflagration which shall set the world on fire at the last which hath a threefold effect vpon three different sorts of men for probation vpon the throughly cleane for Purgation vpon the yet defiled for reuenge vpon the cast-awayes vngodly For which exposition hee citeth Basil in three seuerall places Hilary in second Canon vpon Mathew Ambrose Lactantius Eucherius and others but in no case your Purgatory fire because Purgatory receiueth men after Iudgement particular and is vtterly amolished before the generall Iudgement finished Secondly because Purgatory trieth no mans worke but punisheth the euill works of such as shall bee saued If such men your owne bee not resolued for it nay resolued against it would you haue vs instantly professe a Purgatory because you say Saint Paul meant so and cannot prooue it Prooue it you can out of Saint Ambrose Ser. 20. in Psal 118. Bellarm. saith that Idem habet on the place of S. Paul in his Commentaries and Estius Ser. 3. vpon the same 118. Psal Which testimony hee alleadgeth for against the Conceit of Purgatory extracted hence so that if these testimonies are all one Ignis Conflagrationis is intended at the end of the world to beginne not the fire of Purgatory which is to bee consummated at the worlds end Post consummationem saeculi are Saint Ambrose words missis Angelis qui segregent bonos et malos hoc futurum est Baptisma quando per caminum ignis Iniquitas exuretur vt in regno Dei fulgeant iusti sicut Sol in regno Patris sui et si aliquis vt Petrus sit vt Iohannes baptizatur hoc igni This is a purging fire as well as a proouing and consuming fire as your Estius hath well obserued In which sense Saint Ambrose speaketh vt per ignem purgatus fiat saluus So you bely Saint Ambrose for explicating this very place of Purgatory in your sense Secondly you prooue it out of Hierome vpon the fourth of Amos 11. You were as a firebrand plucked forth of the burning where what Hierome hath for Purgatory I would willingly vnderstand of your Gagger-ship for I professe my disability to conceiue Hierome compareth that place of the Prophet with the other of Saint Paul and onely compareth it no more Hierome doth not determine Fire in eyther place to be your Purgatory fire all that can bee collected is That by fire Saint Hierome meant the seuere Iustice of God Cùm subuer si fuerint ob similitudinem criminum Sodomae et Gomorrhae pessimaque in ijs aedificia diuinus ignis exusserit ipsi liberentur quasi torris raptus de incendio Et quomodo Lot Sodomâ pereunte seruatus est amittens substantiam et partem corporis sui quam intelligimus vxorem sic omnes isti Sodomorum diuitias amittentes euadunt nudi iuxta illud quod in Apostolo legimus Si cuius opus arserit c. Si ergo saluatur per ignem quasitorris de incendio rapitur If there bee no fire but that in Purgatory I confesse this fire must bee that of Purgatory but if there bee many fires beside this of your Imagination it is rather any fire then that of Purgatory For I neuer yet heard that an Heretick dying an Heretick may haue his Heresie purged in Purgatory and so leauing that there as a snake her slough himselfe may stie vp to Heauen but without all controuersie out of that fire in Saint Hierome Hereticks be saued into Heauen Postquam in eo opera arserint in antiquum restituatur locum See the place Reader and tell mee thy opinion of this Gagger Saint Augustine cannot possibly vnderstand this place of your fire of Purgatory except hee will and doe contradict him For by your owne confessions Saint Augustine conceiued it of the Tribulations of this life therefore not of Purgatory after this life The words you meane in Saint Augustine vpon 37. Psal are It is said Hee shall bee saued yet as it were by fire And because it is said Hee shall bee saued therefore that fire is not regarded No maruell and yet that fire is more vnsufferable then any torment which a man can possibly vndergoe in this life Heere no doubt the game is vp for Saint Augustine Fire after this life and yet not eternall therefore of Purgatory no question Yes Sir a question Indeed no question what Saint Augustine meant For first he calleth it plainly Emendatorium ignem fire that correcteth men and