the name of the onely begotten Son of God V. 19. This is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather then light because their deeds were evil V. 36. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God abideth on him Mr. Hobbes There is yet behinde a reason whereby I prove that the doctrine of the Gospel is not made Law by Christ or his Apostles The Apostles power was no other then that of our Saviour to invite men to embrace the Kingdome of God which they themselves acknowledged for a Kingdome not presenâ— but to come and they that have no Kingdome can make no Laws Stud. Christ as Mediator before his Resurrection had power of making sâ—ronger Laws then any Soveraigns now upon Earth for he had immediate Commission from God in Heaven He that saw Christ saw him that sent him and whatsoever Christ spake even as the Father said unto him so he spake And he that rejected him was to be condemned by his words at the last day And Christ when his Father sent him was design'd to be a King over Men and Angels and for that purpose he came into the World and he acquired this Kingship by way of Conquest in his resurrection from the dead after which he spake unto his Disciples saying All power is given unto me iâ— Heaven and in Earth Go ye therefore and â—â—ach all Nationâ— baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Ghost teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you and loâ— I am with you allwaies unto the end of the World And when he ascended and sate on the right hand of God he was inaugurated into his Heavenly Kingdom and became in truth a Divine Heroe as those amongst the Heathens were in pretence and he at present raigneth be the Earth never so rebellious in the Oeconomie of his Church But to step out of this into our Tenth Place of Discourse if the commands of Christ and his Apostles are not also Laws without the civil Sanction what meaneth the common doctrine in the Scripture of suffering for the sake of Christianitie we are enjoyned to take up the Cross and to follow Christ Blessedness is promised to those who are persecuted for righteousness sake that suffer as Christians and we are taught that the way to preserve our lives is to loose them for a time in the glorious cause of Jesus Such commands and exhortations to dye rather then to obey unchristian injunctions are delivered in vain yea they deserve the name of impious if they be not a royal Law without the stamp and allowance of civil Authoritie It is then in your opinion not only our Priviledge but our duty to save thâ— skin entire and for the sake of outward safety to obey that which is truly Law the Law of our Countrie though we live amongst the Heathens rather then to follow dangerous though Evangelical Counsel Mr. Hobbes You may easily make conjecture of my sense in the present case because I say the disobedient to the civil Powers do violate that which is properly Law We are not obliged to obey any Minister of Christ if he should command us to do any thing contrary to the command of the King or other Soveraign representant of the Common-wealth whereof we are Members and by whom we look to be protected Stud. Were this truth there ought not to have bin any zealous propagation of the Gospel but it should have expired with the Author of it upon the Cross. For the Apostles sinned both against the Law of Nature and Common-wealth in exposing their lives to hazzard by preaching to the Gentiles if it was injustice to gain-say their Pagan Edicts St. Thomas then though armed with Miracles to command assent ought either not to have wandred to the East-Indies or being there not to have preached up a new Religion and what he suffered for that cause was just from the hand of Pagan Authority Mr. Hobbes Into what place soever a man shall come if he do any thing contrary to the Law it is a crime If a man come from the Indies hither and perswade men here to receive a new Religion or teach them any thing that tendeth to disobedience of the Laws of his Country though he be never so well perswaded of the truth of what he teacheth he commits a crime and may be justly punished for the same not only because his doctrine is false but also because he does that which he would not approve in another namely that coming from hence he should endeavour to alter the Religion there Stud. A good man would be desirous of information in matters of the greatest moment from what quarter soever of the Heavens the light shined into his understanding and the question is only of the assurance which the Teacher can give and not of the equity of his Practice But to pass by that enquiry I cannot refrain from asking you though I can guess at your opinion whether every Traveller is bound to profess the Religion of that Country into which he goeth I mean not this of meer prudence and caution of an open countenance and close breast but of actual compliance with all forraign institutions so as to do as men do at Rome or Constantinople or Agra if we were sojourners there Mr. Hobbes To this I shall by and by say somthing particularly but I will now in general terms affirm that whosoever entreth into anothers Dominion is subject to all the Laws thereof unless he have a priviledge by the Amity of the Soveraigâ—s or by special Licence Stud. Seeing then the Romanists depend much upon Opus operatum if you returned but to Paris the prayer of Monsieur Sorbiere would be heard who in his Voyage when he weeded England desired you might become a good Catholick this digression puts me in mind of a saying of B. Andrews who when it was told that some of the Scotch-Clergie were to be made Bishops advised that they should be made Priests First But what great motive is there to this compliance with the civil Power of any perswasion Mr. Hobbes That I hinted just now in saying that by them we look to be protected Stud. As if the favour of our Lord the Prince of glory towards his sincere and faithful patient and undaunted subjects who will not be baffled out of truth nor be ashamed of the Gospel were not of more value then the thin shelter of worldly-power which if it could hide us under Rocks and Mountains could not secure us from the stroke of him who is in the first place to be feared methinks in the competition betwixt danger from men and disobedience to Christ as in the case of such as are commanded by Heathen powers to sacrifice to Daemons it is easie to see on which
life after many hundreds of years Mr. Hobbes A second place is that in St. Paul 1 Cor. 15.22 For as in Adam all dye even so in Christ shall all be made alive Now if as in Adam all dye that is have forfeited Paradise and eternal life on earth so in Christ all shall be made alive then all men shall be made to live on earth for else the comparison were not proper Stud. That Adam if he had remained obedient should have lived eternally upon earth together with all the race of men to have been produced out of his loyns to whom this earth would at last have denyed Elbow-room is a conceit of yours which reason doth not favour For the first man was of the earth earthy he was sustained by corruptible food he was design'd for propagation before his fall which things seem to argue a mortal nature and are by our Saviour excepted from the condition of those who shall enjoy eternal blessedness And though it was said to him that in eating the forbidden fruit he should dye the death that argueth thenceforth a necessity of dying and denyeth not a capableness of dying formerly and though God Almighty could have sustain'd his mortal nature for ever upon earth yet there is as I think no promise of it in Holy Writ and whilst we consider the future estate of blessed men described in Scripture there is some reason for us to believe that he should have rather been translated to an Heavenly Paradise then to have dwelt for ever in the Eden below Neither was it the business of the Apostle in this Text to determine any thing of the place but to set forth the priviledge of Believers by the means of Christ at the last day The meaning of the Apostle who speaketh here of those that are Christs seems no other then this As all who came from Adam were obnoxious to death and could not naturally claim the priviledge of a Resurrection to life eternal So all who believe in the Messiah shall not rot for ever in the grave but be raised up to everlasting happiness To this sense agree both Crellius and Vorstius whom I the rather name to you because they were men of singularity in conceit and such as stepped out of the beaten Road of Divinity which the Orthodox believe the truest and safest way In the Paraphrase of this comparison All of one kinde is answered by All of the other kinde and death by life And therefore there is no impropriety in the comparison though in other particulars the things compared disagree The main scope of the Apostle in setting forth the advantage of Believers at that day by Christ doth justifie the similitude though the place of life be not the same to all the Sons of Adam which was possessed by that Root of mankinde Parables saith Salmeron who wrote of them are like to swords the Hilts and Scabbards of them are variously wrought but it is the Edge whereby they â—o execution Mr. Hobbes Notwithstanding what hath been talk'd I still maintain that the Elect after the Resurrection shall be restored to the estate wherein Adam was before he had sinned and that the place shall be on earth and more particularly at and about Ierusalem Concerning the general salvation because it must be in the Kingdom of Heaven there is great difficulty concerning the place On one side by Kingdom which is an estate ordained by men for their perpetual security against Enemies and want it seemeth that this Salvation shall be on earth for by Salvation is set forth unto us a glorious reign of our King by conquest not a safety by escape and therefore there where we look for Salvation we must look also for Triumph and before triumph for victory and before victory for battle which cannot well be supposed shall be in heaven and it is evident by Scripture that Salvation shall be on earth then when God shall reign at the coming again of Christ in Ierusalem and from Ierusalem shall proceed the Salvation of the Gentiles that shall be received into Gods Kingdom Stud. In this speech of yours there is a threefold error easily confuted and broken in sunder First you say the Elect shall be in the estate of innocent Adam and you would have comparison answer comparison as face answereth face Yet our Saviour saith That the elect shall neither eat drink nor marry Secondly you suppose a War in the estate of the heaven on earth and after that victory the former of which is inconsistent with that uninterrupted peace which the Scripture ascribeth to that estate and the latter is meant of Christ the Captain of our Salvation conquering death in behalf of Believers by dying and arising again and triumphing over death in ascending and reigning at Gods Right-hand Wherefore St. Paul saith O death where is thy sting O grave where is thy victory And again Thanks be to God which giveth us the victory through our Lord Iesus Christ. Neither in the third place do you speak consistently with your self when you mention Ierusalem as the Metropolis of Heaven For blessedness being by you supposed the recovery of the estate lost in Adam the chief seat of it ought by you to have been fixed in the Region of Eden which where it is those Atheists who scoff at the story of Adam may be instructed both in relation to their knowledge and manners by an obscure but yet most learned Geographer and Divine Mr. Hobbes Will you suffer me to proceed in proving that the future estate of Gods subjects shall be upon earth particularly at Ierusalem Stud. You shall not be unseasonably interrupted Mr. Hobbes That it shall be on earth is proved from a third place Rev. 2.7 To him that overcometh I will give to eat of the tree of Life which is in the midst of the Paradise of God This was the Tree of Adams eternal life but his life was to have been on earth Stud. You here mistake as many have done in attempting to unfold the Revelation this Book of Mysteries which representeth Allegorically to our senses the things in Heaven by patterns on earth There is a Paradise not upon earth an entrance into which our Saviour promised to the relenting and believing Malefactor that very day upon the Cross. Besides the meer letter of the Text fixeth the chief Seat of Heaven in Eden not in Ierusalem Mr. Hobbes To my opinion concerning the Heavenly Ierusalem on earth seemeth to agree that of the Psalmist Psal. 133.3 Vpon Zion God commanded the blessing even life for evermore for Zion is in Ierusalem upon earth Stud. This blessing is meant of temporal long life which God promised so especially to the obedient in the Land of Canaan neither cannot it with reason be interpreted of a life eternal for David saith in the last place that God did there command a blessing Besides though Zion was at Ierusalem yet Hermon which is first
Authors and particularly by your Thucydides that they gave some Answers dubious and others false and divers true but such as a prudent man might have return'd out of deep insight into civil affairs yet without a suspicion of antient Historians too uncharitable I cannot prevail upon my mind to think that the Priests had no assistance from Daemons I know not what other judgement to make of the Answer which the Pythia gave to Craesus an instance to which you cannot be a stranger He enquir'd at Delphos touching the proper means for the loosning the tongue of that beloved Son of his who was apt for every thing besides speech The Pythia returned answer that there was no great reason for his solicitousness about the dumbness of the Child seeing when he should first speak the hour would be unhappy to his Father The event was agreeable to the prediction his Son first crying out when Sardis being taken Craesus was ready to fall by the inglorious hand of a common Persian I could if you requir'd it produce strange Instances in times not so remote from our own a good while after the coming of our Lord notwithstanding that you have asserted that in the planting of the Christian Religion the Oracles ceased in all parts of the Roman Empire Marcellinus would have un-deceivâ—d you and even Iulian the Apostate who in his works is frequent in the mention of present Oracles and particularly in an Epistle to Maximus the Cynic which being private and to a Philosopher doth argue that he wrote as he believ'd He there tells Maximus who was brought into some danger under Constantius that he had consulted the Gods concerning his estate being far distant from him and solicitous for his welfare and that he could not do it in person but by others not be able to hear immediately as he suspected ill tidings of his Friend as likewise that the Oracle had return'd answer that the Philosopher was in some trouble but not pressed with such extremity as giveth unnatural counsell Touching Michel Nostradamus Physician in Ordinary to Henry the Second of France I have read his Centuries with very little edification Yet when I remember that in sixty six I beheld London in the Flames I know not how to despise that Stanza of his which if it has not satisfied our reason I 'm sure it has astonished the imaginations of many But whether he spake the words and we contriv'd the sense I leave under debate But be these things as they will this I am enough confirmed in that such as publickly deny Witch-craft are sawcy affronters of the Law and therefore for their opinion which rather establisheth irreligion than subverts the faith they ought to be chastiz'd from those Chairs of Justice which they have reproachfully stain'd with the bloud of many innocent and mis-perswaded people Mr. Hobbes As for Witches I think not that their Witch-craft is any real power but yet that they are justly punished for the belief they have that they can do such mischief joyned with their purpose to do it if they can Stud. I have heard it elsewhere said that our Witches are justly hang'd because they think themselves so and suffer deservedly for believing they did mischief because they mean it But methinks that Law were to be accused of unreasonable severity which should take away the life of those knowingly and deliberately who before they make confession of their inefficacious malice are in no sort hurtfull to the Common-wealth which is not concerned in our thoughts and when they make confession not of any evil practices but of their delusions of distemper'd fancy appear to be possessed with madness rather than a Daemon and ought rather to be provided for in Bedlam than executed at Tyburn But could we grant it to be a piece of â—ustice yet would that evasion be too thin to shelter those from the censure of the Law who as I think do most insolently revile it by denying all real confederacy with Daemons For the Statute of King Iames whom you somewhere honour with the attribute of most wise condemns to death only such Authors of Enchantment and Witch-craft as are convicted of real effects And it is not felony without Clergy though it be imprisonment with shame of the Pillory to attempt to tell of stollen goods or to destroy or hurt mans body by Conjuration The Statute also mentioneth the making Covenants with some evil and wicked Spirit as a practice granted and notorious But passing from the Law of our Sovereign to that of Moses let us Secondly Consider Whether thereby you are not also condemned in the Article of the permanent substances of Angels It is thought by learned men that Moses and the Prophets had so conspicuously taught the Being of Angels that the very Sadducees denied not absolutely the existence of such Spirits but their natural Being and duration conceiving by their appearing and disappearing on a sudden that God had created them upon account of some extraordinary Embassie and the service being done reduced them to their first nothing The Old Testament describes Angels by such Offices of standing before the Throne of God and ministring perpetually to the Favourites of God as shew at once their unfancied existence and their permanency It were a voluminous labour to write each Authority in the old Law and it were also a superfluous one seeing the bare instances of Lot and Abraham are so pregnant with evidence that no reason can overthrow it though a boisterous impudence may turn it aside Mr. Hobbes Why may not the Angels that appeared to Lot be understood of Images of men supernaturally formed in the fancy That to Abraham was also of the same nature an Apparition Stud. The Angels sent to Lot were not meer Phantasms for the Texts seems as much an historical Relation as any pasâ—age in the Acts and Monuments of Gods Church the very History of the Passion scarce excepted And in truth you have bidden very fair towards a phantastical Cross by affirming our Saviour to have been tempted in a Vision Were that true it would be but a faint encouragement which the Author to the Hebrews thought a sufficient motive to animate our hopes in the day of the spiritual battel to consider with our selves that our Saviour imagined himself to be tempted and therefore will succour us that are really tempted Scultetus was betray'd into this error by his mistake of the Greek word rendred a Pinacle having read it seems in Iosephus that the Pinacles of the Temple were so very sharp as not to sustain a bird without piercing its feet Whereas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signified a Battlement of the Temple a support easie and sufficient on which Saint Iames the Just was placed and thence by the violence of bloody men was thrown down headlong And for your self you fell into this conceit by being ignorant or by
being well consider'd you ought not to have ascrib'd as somewhere you have done the very rights of the Priestly Function to the Civil Powers Grotius who has not had thanks from all for his liberality to the Civil Magistrate in relation to the Affairs of the Church hath yet made it his whole designe in the second Chapter of his Book De Imperio summarum potestatum circa Sacra to make it manifest that Authority about Holy things and the Sacred Function are distinct In the same person they may be as in Anius the King and Priest of Phoebus but not without Ordination For the Power depending upon our Lords Commission is not convey'd but by Succession through the hands of the Commissioned Our thirty seventh Article doth attribute to the King a Power of outward Rule in Ecclesiastical matters yet granteth not to him either the ministring of Gods Word or of the Sacraments And under the Law it was said unto Vzziah the King It pertaineth not unto thee Vzziah to burn incense unto the Lord but to the Priests the sons of Aaron that are consecrated to burn incense And because he would use his force in usurping the rights of the Priest God Almighty smote him with immediate Leprosie and taught him to discern betwixt might and right Yet the Kings of Iudah had power in the Synagogue They had â—o de facto neither in many things wherein they ordered Religion were they reproved Yet to say the truth the having such right is no where commanded in the Old Law which enjoyn'd not the people to have a King but upon conditions permitted one to them if they should prefer the customs of the Heathen-nations before the most excellent estate of Theocracie Wherefore let them see whether they build closely who establish the Ecclesiastical Power of Christian Princes upon the exercise of it amongst the Kings of Iudah It concerneth you also to consider whether you have not unduly ascrib'd unto the Prince as such the Power of the Keys and the Right of Ordination and Ministration of the Sacraments and Word of Christ. The Monarch say you or the Soveraign Assembly onely hath immediate Authority from God to teach and instruct the people and no man but the Soveraign receiveth his Power Dei Gratia simply He it is that hath authority not onely to preach which perhaps no man will deny but also to baptize and to administer the Sacrament of the Lords Supper and to consecrate both Temples and Pastors to Gods service If the Soveraign Power give me command though without the ceremony of imposition of hands to teach the Doctrine of my Leviathan in the Pulpit why am not I if my Doctrine and life be as good as yours a Minister as well as you This is saying and not proving and because the Power was from Christ derived to the Apostles and from them in Succession by Ordination and can be in none to whom it is not convey'd in such a Channel what you have said had you been versed in the several Writings of a Divine of the Church of England a man of greater and better Learning then either your self or Mr. Selden whose Doctrine you seem to have swallow'd down together with the good provisions of his Table and who is said to have mistaken the very staâ—e of the Erastian-Controversie whilst he defined Excommunication to be a censure inferring a civil penalty you would have either altered your opinion or aggravated your error It appeareth by what hath been delivered that there is Authority enough without the civil Sanction to make the Doctrines of the Apostles to become Laws to wit the Kingly Power of Christ whose Commissioners they were and who had power to cause their rights to descend to others by Ordination And before the days of Constantine there wanted not the Fountain of outward force not onely in our Lord who could dash in pieces Soveraigns of the finest mold but also in his Members who as is manifest from Ecclesiastical story had often strength enough to have check'd the fury of their persecutors and to have forc'd the yoke of Christ upon their necks But it seemed good to our blessed Lord during this state of mans probation to deal chiefly with him according to his reasonable nature and to invite rather then compel And yet methinks the threatnings of eternal vengeance seem to carry more force with them then all the prisons in the world And it is time to think that the Gospel obligeth when we hazard perpetual misery by disobeying it whether we be Jews or Greeks if its sound hath reached us Mr. Hobbes The Jews and Gentiles were to be damned not for their infidelity but their old sins If the Apostles Acts of Council were Laws they could not without sin be disobeyed But we read not any where that they who receiv'd not the Doctrine of Christ did therein sin but that they dyed in their sins that is that the sins against the Laws to which they owed obedience were not pardoned And those Laws were the Laws of Nature and the Civil Laws of the State whereto every Christian man had by pact submitted himself And therefore by the burthen which the Apostles might lay on such as they had converted are not to be understood Laws but Conditions proposed to those that sought Salvation which they might accept or refuse at their own peril without a new sin though not without the hazard of being condemned and excluded out of the Kingdom of God for their sins past And therefore of Infidels St. Iohn saith not the wrath of God shall come upon them but the wrath of God remaineth upon them and not that they shall be condemned but that they are condemned alreadie Stud. What will not a man say rather then acknowledge himself in an errour though the thing it self speaketh it Here 's mistake clap'd upon mistake yet the scales of the Leviathan are not so close but a blinde Archer may shoot between them Have you not read what our Lord said to his disciples after his resurrection Go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved and he that believeth not shall be damned The Author also to the Hebrews exhorteth the Jews to believe in Christ and telleth them they shall for ever be excluded the Kingdom of heaven for their unbelief it they persevere in it as their forefathers came short of Canaan for the same reason And although S. Iohn in the places cited doth speak in the present tense yet in others of the same Chapter he speaketh in the future and in that very verse which you cite partially concealing the words which are against you he maketh their unbelief the cause of that severe decree which already was gone forth V. 18. He that believeth on him is not condemned but he that believeth not is condemned already because he hath not believed in