their peace for euer This you nor can nor do deny To this day you put it in practise For according to such directions from higher powers The Bibliotheca Saint Patrum was last yeare printed at Cullen Shamelesse Mountebancks that obiect that to others whereof themselues are notoriously guilty But it seemeth this man did as the tale is a wench once gaue her mother counsell to doe A brace of neighbours women by sex scolds by profession falling out after they had passed some ordinary language saith a daughter of one of them to her mother Oh Mother call her where first least she call you so and prooue it Haue you heard of this good counsell I am sure ye follow it to an heire It is your profession to adde diminish alter change to aequiuocate your selues and teach your Authours so to doe notoriously For feare wee should iustly lay it to your charge you preuent vs and cast it in our teeth But play the honest man once in your dayes name where when how by whom this hath beene done I name your selfe guilty of this cousening trick and name for false and ridiculous interpretation the 1. of Saint Luk. 8. 9. and Leuit. 16. 17. in the sixt Proposition For adding to Math. 9 8 in the eleuenth Proposition For diminishing Phil. 2. 30. in the fourteene Proposition Tria are not omnia but enough to shame you if you be not past grace and shame In briefe your whole booke is compacted by this art For 39. of these Propositions are no doctrines of the Church of England those that are are vnfaithfully handled By ambiguity by adding to taking from peruerting of sense and meaning this little Pamphlet is meerely made Detract these particulars not so much will remaine as with a whole impression to stop one mustard pot I shall not need actum agere here I haue discouered your false play in particulars hereafter This is to imploy I â—rowe mans wilinesse if not wisedome to serue the diuell both are bad but yet better it were to employ mans wisedome in stead of the word For true wisedome is of God wheresoeuer or howsoeuer Lying is you haue heard from whom the father of lyes that graund Paedagogue in the Iesuite schooles brought you vp a good Proficient in this faculty you may sing a song of degrees there in medio chori according to your progresse from our twenty seuerall Bibles and their manifold varieties to their more Corruptions and Falsifications to darken and obscure the truth and yet those also handled sophistically and contrary to the mind of all antiquity nor only so but neuer produced without some tricke of adding diminishing or changing by interpretation that the old saying may take hold vpon the Gagger Qui semel verecundiae fines est transgressus eum grauiter oportet esse impudentem Sir know this Our profession is not such as yours is our practise answerable to our profession We protest you say and we doe so indeed that The word of God containeth all that is necessary to saluation Your sarcasticall irony shal not beate vs from it And therein we say no more then Saint Paul in that well knowne place of 2. Tim. 3. 16. 17. The whole Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God and is profitable to teach to improoue to correct and to instruct in righteousnesse that the man of God may bee absolute being made perfect vnto all good workes For to know God in Christ is life eternall Ioh. 17. 3. That is the way vnto and meanes whereby to attaine eternall life The absolute direction for that way is Ioh. 20. 31. These things are written that you might beleeue that Iesus is Christ the Sonne of God and that in beleeuing yee might haue life through his name These are moe texts then one and without adding diminishing or changing ought by interpretation as expresse as words can make them that all things necessary vnto saluation are conteyned in the Scripture Yet farther to be inforced by this reason Saluation is the end of reueiled knowledge from God If that knowledge be not sufficient God is defectiue in proportioning the meanes vnto the end intended which auouch if you can without blasphemy If man adde any thing to it as defectiue or detract from it in the materialls or alter and change it against minde and meaning we may well enquire quo warranto he doth it and condemne his presumption as enormious An Embassadour hath commission and instructions from his penne according to them he must proceede Differ hee must not vpon life nor change the state and tearmes of his direction so farre as to come short of to exceede vpon to be thwart vnto and against the maine of the busines negotiated Explane he may adde detract in words alter phrases or occurrences according as occasions are so he hold the maine and keepe close to the meaning and direct vnto the end of his negotiating still Circumstances sometime may alter much this point discretion must regulate as it may but substances altered make a maine change indeed aliud and aliud not aliter If we say it is not lawfull for men nor Angels to adde diminish or alter ought thereof we meane for the maine and substance of the Gospell we intend not such a precise obseruance as not to say Rites for ceremonies statutes for ordinances Church for congregation and such like or vice versâ And therein we say no more then Saint Paul himselfe hath said in so many words an other expresse text for another point of our false doctrine Gal. 1. 8. Though we or an Angell from heauen preach vnto you otherwise then that which we haue preached vnto you let him be accursed Otherwise so as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thereby to corrupt and abolish the Gospell Now this is not onely when they preach contrary and amolish the whole 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if they alter and change some small obuious thing saith Chrysostome and his reason is The Scriptures were commended to vs by God the Lord of all Men and Angells are but seruants whose commendation is to doe his will This precise obedience hath that warrant yet further It is better to obey God then man If men stand ad oppositum to God But we are not thus perswaded of Antiquity We nor vse them so nor speake so of them We command not our followers vtterly to renounce all antiquity customes multitude humane wisedome iudgements decrees edicts or councells The Councels of Trent of Florence of Laterane are not all Councels We refuse them as factious as bastards as partiaries as hauing nothing but the names of Councels You refuse moe Councels then we doe in the foure first so highly commended by your owne Gregory you presume to prescribe you reiect and retaine what you please We accept them absolutely sans exception We may as well presse you with the Sinods of Gapp and Dort as you vs with Trent and diuers others Edicts and Decrees and Imginents
Iesus Christ with an oath which was peccatum lethale as Saint Augustine prooueth in his 66. Tractat. vpon Saint Iohn Chirst prayed for him that his faith might not fayle But his Prayer was for the end not the act That hee might not fall finally and hee did not but not that not totally for so hee did His infirmitie appeared in his fall Gods mercy was seene in his restauration Simon Magus was an Heretique an Arch-heretique the father of Heretiques and first begotten of the Deuill yet Simon Magus was a Christian once and baptized and belieued and brought forth fruits of new life and followed Philip a certaine time He belieued it is said but not truely It is not said he belieued not truely Saint Luke saith hee belieued in the same termes with the same words to the same intent and purpose that hee speaketh of others that belieued truely constantly Where the Holy Ghost putteth no difference what man hath any warrant to distinguish The Scripture doth not so much as insinuate the hypocrisie of Simon Magus then and what is hee that would haue his nay belieued before Saint Lukes yea Iudas was a Reprobate and cast away for euer Our Sauiour calleth him the Sonne of perdition and saith it had beene good hee had neuer beene borne Yet Iudas was numbred with the twelue Apostles had all the Prerogatiues which they enioyed God gaue him to Christ as well as Peter or Iohn And if hee perished onely in the number of them that were giuen vnto Christ doubtlesse hee was first ranked in that number and perishing ceased to be of that number as ceasing to be of that number he perished Beside if Faith had cannot be lost the Dogge cannot be said to returne vnto his vomit nor the Swine to wallowing in the myre If righteousnesse had cannot be lost why doe wee pray continually against that Leade vs not into temptation Why did the Apostle chastice and bring vnder his body least he should become a cast-away Why should hee admonish as hee doth Hee that standeth let him take heede lest hee fall And Worke out your Saluation with feare and trembling Againe say they totally it may be lost for Faith is an adhesion vnto God Sinne seperateth man from God and maketh a diuision in that first Coniunction but by repentance it is againe restored and recouery gayned after fall Totally lost is not then euer finally eternally nor ineuitably lost For yet wilt thou returne and refresh mee and bring vp my life from the gates of death againe And as the Tree that is cut downe at the stemme so long as the stocke remaineth in the ground yet by the sent of waters it will recouer saith Iob and againe shew forth the branches So so long as men in the Church haue meanes in Christ it is possible to be renued by Repentance Possible they say Necessary say some because of that necessitating purpose of God whereby hee is saued and could not perish that was appointed vnto life vnchangeably So then they teach that are thus perswaded Faith totally may be lost Faith totally lost may eternally be lost and also not be lost eternally though totally for a time Because God againe will restore them to Grace and except hee would doe so they could not rise to Grace but because his will is not put into practise by his power he necessitateth no man so irreuersably vnto life nor death those that haue lapsed totally may also perish finally It will be vrged by them which is here said by you What needes there any further proofe where holy Scripture is so plaine and they graunt in a case so fully cleared and resolued in Scripture no further proofe needeth as necessarily required yet for illustration and assurance a concurring assent of many is requisite of congruitie Wherfore they bring Fathers for their purpose Ignatius the ancientest this day extant of whose writings there is little or no question in his Epistle to the Magnesians pag. 26. diuideth mankinde into two sorts of Coynes as hee speaketh there and explicating his meaning saith hee doth not so intend it as if hee meant two distinct Natures in man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. That one and the same man is sometime the Childe of God and againe the Childe of the Deuill If hee liue godly he is a man of God if wickedly the Childe of the Deuill not so by Nature but from his owne depraued will And speaking elsewhere of constancy in persecution saith Albeit I am exceedingly strengthened in God yet ought I to feare so much the rather And againe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I doe not know whether I am worthy or not Clement in his Constitutions 5. 26. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The Holy Spirit is continually assistant with those that possesse him so long as they are worthy so to haue him From whomsoeuer this holy Spirit is diuided Hee leaueth them destitute and forsaken and deliuered vp vnto the wicked Spirit I know the Author is questioned vpon his honestie at least hee is ancient but I hold him honest and perswade my selfe I can proue him so to be as hee seemeth for my part Tertullian in de praescript Cap. iij. Et hoc mirum opinor vt probatus aliquis retro postea excidat Saul bonus prae ceteris liuore posteà euertitue Dauid vir bonus secundum cor Domini postea caedis stupri reus Salomon omni gratiâ sapientia donatus à Domino ad Idololatriam à mulieribus inducitur Soli enim dei filio seruabatur sine delicto permanere As if it were a thing so strange that any Man approued by God should afterward relapse from Grace Saul a man better then the rest was ouertaken and vndone at length through Enuy. Dauid was a good man and according vnto the Lords heart yet afterward guilty of murther and adultery Salomon inducd with all grace and wisedome from the Lord was by women brought ouer vnto Idolatry For why it was reserued to the Sonne of God alone to be without sinne What then if a Bâ—shop a Deacon a Virgin a Widow a Teacher a Martyr haue swarued from his rule shall Heresie therefore haue the better of Truth Doe wee estimate and approue Faith by Mens Persons or not rather Persons by Faith Onely the faithfull man is a wiseman Onely a Christian man is of account No man is a Christian but he that continueth vnto the end Thus farre he Cyprian is through for the point Epist 7. Parum est adipisci potuisse aliquid Plus est quod adeptus es posse seruare sicut fides ipsa Natiuitas salutaris non accepta sed custodita viuisicat Nec statim consecutio sed consummatio hominem Deo seruat Dominus hoc magisterio suo docuit dicens Ecce sanus factus es sani noli peccare nequid tibi deteriuâ— fiat Puta hoc illum Confessori suo dicere Ecce Confessor factus es sani noli
beyond it against it without it So Damned or Saued are so ordained by God Whatsoeuer God willeth commeth to passe and whatsoeuer commeth to passe commeth so to passe because God hath said So and not otherwise it shall come to passe either positiuely by disposing it or else permissiuely by giuing way and suffering it so to come to passe as it doth come to passe This his will as nor himself began not in time it is and was eternall as he is euer I am not I will be or haue bin Whatsoeuer is done in processe of time was so seen so disposed of and ordered before all Time for he is not measured but by Eternity which is Tota simul perfecta possessio sui The totall and perfect possession of it self If then there bee Damned and Saued as there are God's eternall will did so determine of them their finall estate from all Eternity and after that determination of God they are damned or saued ineuitably not onely according vnto Prescience but also according to Predestination say the Roman schools in which this Fellow would seem to haue sent some idle houres after their fleeing Predecessors What then Why surely the poore man meant well to the Catholique Cause and would say somewhat though no matter what which he did not vnderstand nor could vtter He thought well though he could not handsomly tell his Tale which should haue been marshald thus That God by his sole will and absolute decree hath irrespectiuely resolued and ineuitably decreed some to be saued some to be damned from all Eternity Man in curiosity hath presumed farre vpon and waded deep into the hidden Secrets of the Almighty no-where more or with greater Presumption than where that grand Apostle stood at gaze with O the depth and in consideration cried out How vnsearchable are his waies who yet was admitted into Councell of State and rapt vp into the third heauen In the point of Election for Life and Reprobation vnto Death Protestants and Papists are many wayes at oddes in opposition and each diuided at home amongst themselues not for the Thing which all resolue but for the Manner in which they differ agreeing in the Main that It is so disagreeing on the By How it cometh so as if God meant to reserue no Secrets vnto himself but impart them all to men as if it were not enough to saue some and cast others off but he must giue account of dooing so Some Protestants and no mo but some haue considered God for this effect of his will in reference to Peter and Iudas thus that Peter was saued because that God would haue him saued absolutely and resolued to saue him necessarily because hee woâ—ld so and no further that Iudas was damned as necessarily because that God as absolute to decree as om 〈…〉 ipotent to effect did primarily so resolue concerniâ—g him and so determine touching him without respect of any thing but his owne will insomuch that Peter could not perish though he would nor Iudas be saued doo what he could This is not the doctrine of the Protestants the Lutherans in Germany detest and abhorre it It is the priuate fansie of some men I grant but what are Opinions vnto Decisions priuate Opinions vnto receiued and decided doctrines The Church of England hath not taught it doth not beleeue it hath opposed it wisely contenting herself with this Quoúsque and Limitation Art 17. We must receiue God's promises in such wise as they be generally set forth to vs in holy scripture and not presuming to determine of When How Wherfore or Whom Secrets reserued to God alone So this Goose the Gagger may put his Gag into the Bils of many of his owne Gaggle as well as into others Lagges who presume as farre and wander as wide sometime as they do though more couertly in their tearms Our Bible in expresse words saith what we beleeue it teacheth not contrary to that which is resolued in the Church of England the positiue doctrine wherof is no other but what this Wittall confirmeth out of Scripture that God at the beginning made not death as Wisd 1. 13. because she hath learned out of S. Paul that Through sinne death came into the world whereof God was neither Aurthor nor Abettor but Hee the Father of lies a Lier a Murderer from the beginning in procuring the Fall of man Sinne being entred and by sinne death and so all mankinde in the Masse of perdition God fitted and prepared a Restorer a Mediator the Man Christ Iesus that so Whosoeuer beleeued in him should not perish but haue euer lasting life out of his mercy both free and meer because he was not willing that any should perish but all should come vnto Repentance as 2. Pet. 3. 9. and be saued So large was his Mercy so enlarged his Loue that out of his good pleasure it was his will All men to bee saued and to come to knowledge of the Truth Shew a contrary resolution of the Church of England and gag vp my mouth Sir Goose for euer else goe gaggle on the Green For particular opinions So or so aetatem habent let them speak for themselues and so be it they rent not the peace of the Church let them abound in their priuate senses I nor teach nor beleeue any such Paradox nor the Church whereof I am and you should be a Member positiuely Wee need see no more except to more purpose the places are adrem but touch not vs. They speak home and to purpose which they should declare but we are not interest in opposition Vrge them against those who do vndertake to maintain that men are damned necessarily See Fathers we may but wee shall not need wee beleeue what they should say and go hand in hand with what they doo say dogmatically but see them all we cannot if we would vnlesse we would go seek when we need not and if wee would might blowe the seeke for some of them and after long search be neuer the neer in finding them For Saint Augustine what or where wil you tell vs or are you able to informe vs that hee affirmeth You mean he affirmeth somewhat in his first Book of the City of God and I knowe he doth more by much than you can report me You haue had some acquaintance with some Particulars there as you met them by chance in your perambulation of some trans-scripts of other mens Notes and haue now forgotten where and what Else what man but such a Scribbler would so loosely in a point of opposition and therefore like enough of examination haue referred vs to Saint Austen in his first Book de Dei Ciuitate Something you would say I knowe not what and therefore till you let me knowe I say nothing to what you haue said I cannot tell how I haue seene and read Tertullian in that place remembred expounding that Petition in our Lords Prayer Lead vs not into temptation who
no purpose And indeed to no purpose for Mat. 17. 3. we read There appeared vnto them Moses and Elias talking with them which apply to your Thesis No Saint deceased hath appeared vnto any and aduise how handsomely it agreeth thereto For doo you not knowe or haue you heard of it that Moses by some Authors is reputed not dead as by Hillary Can. 20. vpon Mathew by Saint Ambrose in his second Book of Cain Abel but translated by God into Paradise as Helias was afterward asserted of late by no Babies of your owne Ioh. Arboreus lib. 11. Theosophias and Ambrose Catharine vpon Gen. 3 If that bee so you may go seek a new Text to prooue apparitions of dead men by It will be answered These were not dead For if Moses be liuing Elias is sure you hold him yet aliue and why not both aliue seeing both must come and oppose against Antichrist and bee slaine by him before Dooms-day Mend your conclusion and make it thus Therefore Saints haue appeared to some on earth and I will warrant no man will quarrell your assertion But your second Text of Mat. 27. 52. cometh home to your minde They were Saints indeed deceased but restored to life and peraduenture vnto eternall life in bodies as well as soules They appeared vnto many the Text is plain and I beleeue you neuer met with any such that when you shewed this Text would deny their appearing which is expresse And yet it is not well applied by you for your apparitions as I conceiue it inform me if I doo mis-take you are not in bodyes restored to life or raised vp out of the dust but in bodies assumed or some other way These men appeared in their owne bodies which were laid into and rose vp out of the graues and so not very fitting your purpose As for Onias the high Priest who beeing dead appeared vnto Iudas Macchabeus let him iustifie it that hath written it If he report the story as it was very good it may be done I see nothing to the contrary if not true no great hurt at all your puling-whining soules in Purgatory get nothing by the bargaine That some Saints deceased haue appeared For these were in Heauen of which there is constat for their appearing at least prooue you they were in Purgatory to which your apparitions tend But the truth is there are many Schoens Parasangs betwixt those wōdrous works of God and those iuggling tricks in the Romane Church deuised onely to make the Priests pot to seethe and fill the Popes purse by collusion XXVIII That the Saints deceased know not what passeth in the Earth SPeake out and speak plaine What mean you by what passeth All things that are done on earth in al places at al times by all persons ordinarily of themselues or som saints som things in som places at some times by some persons extraordinarily by reuelation or some such like meanes No Protestant will deny the one no Papist hath hitherto dared affirme the other Dare you abide by it if you doe take vp the bucklers and see what will follow Your generall position will beare eyther interpretation Wee affirme that all Saints departed knowe something on Earth as namely The beeing of a Church That some Saints departed knowe something heere done extraordinarily by reuelation intimation or otherwise As your position is captiously put downe so is your first proofe from the Text of Luke 16. 29. Sophistically affixed There Abraham knew that there were Moses and the Prophets bookes in earth which hee himselfe had neuer seene Indeed Abraham was dead long before Moses wrote And after Moses wrote till the time that Abraham answered thus if it were an History and not a Parable were many mo hundred yeeres In all which time no Protestant will deny but Abraham might know when he was in Paradise that God had left such bookes vnto Israel Now this is not ad idem nor prooueth the question For your position is what passeth not what hath passed your proofe is for what hath passed and not for what passeth A maine difference betwixt these two I cannot tell what you intend to write next but I can tell you haue plaid the Goose in your Gag and hereafter when your worthy work putteth forth head to view I shall bee able to say what Animal it is Abrahā knew som 2000 yeers after his death Put the case so that Moses the Prophets were in the hands of the Iewes and directors of them in their course vnto God therefore Abraham knew what Rabbi Gamaliel taught Saint Paul such a day in his Auditory Is this a good consequence now in your Logick A coozener a cobler might reason so Yet this is your reason cap apee I answer directly First Abraham's case is not euery mans Secondly Abraham's knowledge might bee extraordinary our Quaere is of ordinary knowledge Thirdly Abraham might know in long tract of time which he could not so at an instant and wee make question of present knowledge for that is required vnto your purpose onely That which S. Augustine witnesseth we deny not that which we deny hee witnesseth not Hee witnesseth there that Abraham knew of Moses He telleth not how he came to know of Moses nor what Abraham or Moses can know touching vs. In the next as much ridiculous Iohn 5. 45 our Sauiour there telleth the Iewes thus Do not think that I will accuse you to my Father There is one that accuseth you euen Moses in whom you trust Vpon citing this Text it may seem the man was som what conscious that it was not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it should bee expresse that the Thesis was of knowing what is done vpon earth the proofe of accusing vnto God in heauen Therefore to help it we haue an argument a consequence inferred vpon that Antecedent thus How could Moses dead 2000 yeeres before accuse those that were liuing if the Saints deceased knowe not what passeth in the earth If so then take heed that Moses accuse not you for a fool as very an one as euer went without the priuiledge of a bable who so childishly imagine that God set in iudgement the Iewes were arraigned euery mothers sonne And Moses did as the diuell with Iob came and accused them euery one in particular of euery crime committed for so it must be Doubtlesse Moses had worke enough to doe especially in those last worst tumultuous times You should haue let vs knowne who was of their Councell who their Aduocate against Moses and whether it came to a demurrer or not But good man Wiseacres learne of your Masters to take things aright By Moses is not vnderstood his person then in Paradise dead or aliue but Moses writings the Law of Moses that in which the Iewes did so much trust So it is not personall it is instrumentall his writings accuse you and will condemne you So Caietan Maldonate and who not or if personall Moses himselfe
why then thus they take it It is his office it will be performed by him at the Resurrection and day of Doome Moses then will stand vp and accuse you Any way take it it cannot conclude that Saints in Heauen do knowe by any ordinary course what passeth continually vpon earth What Saints are said to know and what not how many waies to what purposes and ends I could let the Reader see and gagge vp this gabbler for euer but I haue don it already elsewhere in that point to which this tendeth of Inuocation of which notwithstanding I must say som what heere for it followeth next in order XXIX That they pray not for vs. WEE say not so You either mistake vs or bely vs. The Saints pray for vs all in generall all Saints for vs or euery Saint for vs that is for the Church militant on earth You shall finde if you enquire that the Caluinists themselues as you call them or Puritans hold this I adde The Saints pray for vs in particular some particular Saint for some particular man in some speciall cause some time And to come more particularly to it The Question is not whether Saints departed doe pray vnto God that is confessed on both sides all Saints doe by prayer intercession supplication as well as thanksgiuing It is confessed they pray for others and for themselues too by all but this addle-pate who prates he knoweth not what and measureth other mens senses by his owne senslesnesse It is euident they doe Apocal. 6. 10. How long O Lord holy and true doest thou not iudge and auenge our bloud on them that dwell vpon the earth The fellow neuer heard that the soules of the Righteous pray for their consummation in glory such an infant is hee in these speculations which are so common Again it is not denied they pray for vs in regard of that Communion of Saints whereof this holy performance is a principall and main part for vs in generall out of fellow-feeling and commiseration of our miseries which themselues haue tasted in this valley of tears for their friends in particular whom they remember whose state they recommend vnto God in praier they hauing lost no endowment in their Soule in Glory which did accrue vnto them vpon Earth And as for Loue and Charity vnto their brethren which makes them so forward to do them good that is exceedingly enlarged there Monica Saint Augustine's Mother for instance departing this life before her Sonne I make no doubt being seateâ— in those Heauenly Palaces might and did remember her sonne on earth recommend his estate vnto our blessed Sauiour pray for him in generall his good Constancy Perseuerance and Confirmation in the course of his Christian Profession and Priestly Function and not onely so but might remember him in some particular occasions occurrences and actions with which in her life-time she was acquainted And yet Saint Augustine had nor could haue any warranâ— at all to pray vnto her for her remembrance of him or assistance in things that fell out afterwards after her death because there was not nor yet could bee any ordinary course certain whereby hee might acquaint her with his particulars after her death which is all in all for inuocation To come home to the point It should not be put as heer it is that they pray for vs for without question they doo and it is confessed by all Protestants that they doo pray for vs in generall all without limitation in particular in some cases But it should haue been specified when for what by what meanes and how they doo and doo not pray for vs but of these and such like necessary Inferences as these this Dreamer thought not or else would take no notice So hard a thing is it to knowe or set down the state of a Controuersie right so vnwilling at least men are to come to tearms of commerce and some agreement who minde nothing but faction and disturbance This being premised we proceed to see how contrary the Doctrine of the Protestants is vnto their owne Bible Apoc. 5. 8. our Bibles read thus The 24 Elders fell down before the Lamb hauing euery one of them Harps and golden Vials full of Odors which are the Praiers of Saints Heer 24 Elders are represented but in a vision Then who told this Smatterer in diuinity who they were It is exprest that these Odors were the Prayers of Saints but is it expressed who they were that presented them or what Prayers or what Saints The Praiers of Saints on Earth But then except a man be a Saint on Earth Intercession vnto Mediation of Saints in Heauen will doo him no good at all Presented by Saints in Heauen but Quo warranto For not because this vision was in Heauen represented therefore the Action and Actors intended were also heauenly and the thing represented no where done but there Such obscure Prophesies not yet vnderstood that you can say by any are neuer assumed for Proofs in point of Controuersie but of men that vphold a desperate forlorn cause for want of cleerer Proofs For the Text Irenaeus inclineth to take it of those Prayers which the Church of GOD offreth vpon Earth lib. 4. cap. 33 Quoniam ergo Nomen Filij proprium Patris est in Deo omnipotenti per Iesum Christum offert Ecclesia bene ait secundum vtraque in omni loco incensum offertur Nomini meo sacrificium purum Incensa autem Iohannes in Apocalypsi Orationes ait esse Sanctorum which is again repeated by that mvsticall Diuine Apocal. 8. And the smoke of the incense which are the Prayers of Saints went vp from the hand of the Angell before God No more is collected or can bee from these Texts but this that Prayer is compared to Incense according vnto that in the Psalm Let their Praier bee set forth in thy sight like incense and let the lifting-vp of their hands bee as the euening sacrifice But concluded it cannot be from these mysticall Visions that these Saints prayed vnto that Angell that the 24 Elders represented the Angels that those Praiers were addressed from men vpon Earth that the Vision expressed a thing ordinary and done that any man of discretion or vnderstanding in Diuinity or common reason would haue gone in hand to haue prooued a thing controuerted and obscure by that which is much more obscure as this Fellow doth In Macchab. 2. 15. 14. thus we read This is a louer of the Brethren who prayeth much for the people and for the holy City to wit Ieremias the Prophet and from thence the conclusion is Therefore they pray for vs. To weet you should haue added the Prophets or the Iewes Indeed in a Dream worthy no doubt to be beleeued verse 11. For so Iudas dreamed and you beleeue it and draw vs a Conclusion from your Dream thus Therefore they Ieremy and Onias if you will pray for vs In a Dream too So the Doctrine
faciunt quod secus Christus c. The Cup of the Lord communicated to the Laity And again Quomodo possumus propter Christum sanguinem fundere qui sanguinem Christi erubescimus bibere By which reason of Saint Cyprian no Roman Lay-Catholique can shead his bloud for Christ that neuer drank the bloud of Christ Which argument he vseth in another place Epist 54. Sect. 2. With what ground can we teach or exhort them to shead their owne bloudin confessing the Name of Christ if putting them forth vpon that seruice wee denie them the bloud of Christ or how can wee dispose and fit them to drink the cup of Martyrdome vnlesse wee first admit them to their right of communication in drinking the Lords cup in the Church Let our good Catholiques answer this who so punctually forsooth and precisely follow the steps of Antiquity without any swaruing These are all within 300 yeers after Christ and all expresse for the Cup. Athanasius in his second Apologie being accused for breaking a Chalice writeth thus What manner of cup or when or where was it broken In euery house in euery shop there are many pots any which if a man break hee committeth not sacriledge But if any man willingly break the sacred chalice he committeth sacriledge but that chalice is no where but where there is a lawfull Bishop This is the vse destined to that chalice none other wherein you according to institution do drink vnto and before the Laity This was the custome in Athanasius time this in all the Fathers times as I could deduct almost out of euery one This is euery where the custome in all the world vnto this day but in the Roman exorbitant Church as Cassander saith and was not quite abolished in that Church till about 1300 yeeres after Christ and by much art colluding and fine forgery was retained from being cast out of that Church in the late Conuenticle of Trent onely kept-in for a faction but mightily opposed by learned honest and conscionable Catholiques For why who can alter Christ's Institution who dare change that which he hath ordained Sacrificium verum plenum tune offert in Ecclesia Deo Patri si sic incipiat offerre secundùm quod ipsum Christum videat obtulisse saith Saint Cyprian But saith he again and we knowe it is true Constat Dominum obtulisse calicem in commemorationem Passionis Et quia Passionis eius mentionem in sacrificijs omnibus facimâ—â— nihil aliud quà m quod ille fecit facere debemus Why Because otherwise wee offer not the Sacrifice as wee should Nec sacrificium Dominicum legitima sanctificatione celebramus nisi oblatio et sacrificium nostrum responderit Passioni and that cannot be without powring out of wine that representeth the sheading of his bloud But your Church hath altred it presumptuously done Who gaue your Church such authority Heare Saint Cyprian again Quare si solus Christus audiendus est non debemus attendere quid alius ante nos faciendum putauerit sed quid qui ante omnes est Christus prior fecerit Neque enim hominis consuetudinem sequi oportet sed Dei veritatem Nam si Iesus Christus Dominus Deus noster ipse est summus Sacerdos Dei Patris sacrificium Patri seipsum primus obtulit hoc fieri in sui commemorationem praecepit vtique ille sacerdos vice Christi verè fungitur qui id quod Christus fecit imitatur sacrificium verum ac plenum tunc offert in Ecclesia Deo Patri si sic incipiat offerre secundùm quod ipsum Christum videat obtulisse You doo not this therefore in Saint Cyprian's iudgement your sacrifice is neither full nor true Much more in that Epistle Saint Cyprian hath and also elsewhere vnto the purpose But you haue Scriptures for the nonce expresly in our Bibles contrary to that we teach and practice to iustifie what you practise and teach touching this sacriledge and perfidiousnesse in altering Christs institution Maruell you should haue Scripture against Scripture Christs institution beeing so direct for Drink you all Produce your Scriptures Ioh. 6. 51. If any man eat of this Bread hee shall liue for euer And the Bread which I will giue is my flesh Heere is eating of Bread and that same Bread Christs flesh but heere is no such matter as wee ought to receiue Bread onely or that Bread alone sufficeth Yes for Lo euerlasting life attributed by our Lord himselfe to eating onely vnder one kinde I grant for doe they in your countrey vse to eat vnder two kindes Is Wine eaten with spoones there I haue heard of communicating and receiuing vnder one kinde but neuer till now heard talke of eating vnder one kinde Goe learne to speake and then write In the Interim I take your meaning Christ that mentioneth onely eating doth not exclude drinking doth not say nor meane eating onely sufficeth Bread is not exclusiue heere no more then where our Sauiour went to eat Bread with a Pharise at which time in your Learning and Logick he did not drink all dinner-time or supper-time because he went onely to eat Bread But Sir your wisdome must knowe that hee which eateth Bread according to the Scripture phrase drinketh also Bread importing necessaries for mans life and to eat Bread is both to eat and drink as to eat his Body is as well to drink his bloud So anon the same Euangelist Vnlesse you eat the flesh of the Sonne of man and drink his bloud you shall not haue life in you Lo heere euerlasting life not had without drinking Looke you to this if you looke to haue euerlasting life Iohn 4. 14. Christ promiseth Water to drink of which water whoso tasteth shall thirst no more therefore say you He promised no Wine therefore say I By your reason hee gaue not Bread Therefore if needs you will haue one kinde and no more haue it in Wine not Bread Againe hee telleth his Disciples else-where that hee would drink no more of the fruit of the vine vntill hee drink it new in the Kingdome of God hee maketh no mention of any Bread Therefore in Heauen belike Wine is drink and onely Wine drunk but they eat no Bread there And yet wee read of Angels food which I can tell you who take it literally I might say our Sauiour speaketh heere of Bread and not of Wine in regard of that fore-going occasion which was the first motiue vnto this his Discourse namely his miraculous feeding 5000 men with fiue loaues so that hee kept him to the Subiect and occasion But this wise mans obseruation is cleane cashierd by our Sauiours Epexegesis afterward ver 53 54. hee plainely and expresly maketh it plaine that hee meant not to exclude bloud speaking of flesh nor shut out Wine where he mentioned Bread Euerlasting life to returne your owne words vpon your self is attributed by our Lord not to eating onely vnder one but both kinds Except you eat the flesh
in that sort as our Masters tender it vnto vs to bee beleeued at this day XLII That there is no Purgatorie fire or other prison wherein sinnes may bee satisfied for after this life NOt resolued of by Antiquity out of Scripture nor determined by Scripture olde or new as certaine and necessarily to be beleeued You say Yes therefore we contrary the expresse words of our owne Bibles 1. Cor. 3. 13. The fire shall try euery mans work of what sort it is Is this so expresse in your opinion Sir Gagger It seemeth not for neither haue wee your Therefore c. for the conclusion nor your ordinary expresse words but barely thus Contrary to their owne Bible Your conscience checked you or did Bellarmine stumble you or what is the cause you faint in your Euidence Bellarmine confesseth it is one of the hardest places in Scripture And such are not expresse Directors or Concluders therefore no good proofes in points of faith without euident conspiring of some more perspicuous place For points of faith must haue manifest assurance to proue obscurity by more obscurity your Logick can tell you if you haue not forgot it is a fault Wee doubt and make a question vnto you of Purgatory Your Euidence for it is from that of which wee more doubt at leastwise as much as wee doe of Purgatory For beside the confession of the Master of controuersies and the diuers senses and expositions by him confessed and produced the latest I think I am sure one of the learnedst of your owne expositors Estius both confesseth as much and resolueth against your intent for Purgatory out of this place The Fire saith hee which the Apostle in this discourse hath named three seuerall distinct times is variously expounded by diuers men Augustine and Gregory vnderstand it of the afflictions of this life as in the 65. Psal We haue passed through fire and water Others take it for Hell fire Some for Purgatory Some for the fire of Conflagration which shall eyther proceed or accompany Christ the Iudge at the day of Doome Others imagine a threefold fire answerable vnto fire thrice named by the Apostle The first that fire of Conflagration The second the fire of Gods seuere Iudgement The third of Purgatory an absurd interpretation saith your owne Estius the fire is the same in all places saith hee That fire is eyther that of Conflagration or Gods seuere Iudgement or both according to the opinion of Caiâ—tan no Protestant in his owne opinion rather that of Conflagration which shall set the world on fire at the last which hath a threefold effect vpon three different sorts of men for probation vpon the throughly cleane for Purgation vpon the yet defiled for reuenge vpon the cast-awayes vngodly For which exposition hee citeth Basil in three seuerall places Hilary in second Canon vpon Mathew Ambrose Lactantius Eucherius and others but in no case your Purgatory fire because Purgatory receiueth men after Iudgement particular and is vtterly amolished before the generall Iudgement finished Secondly because Purgatory trieth no mans worke but punisheth the euill works of such as shall bee saued If such men your owne bee not resolued for it nay resolued against it would you haue vs instantly professe a Purgatory because you say Saint Paul meant so and cannot prooue it Prooue it you can out of Saint Ambrose Ser. 20. in Psal 118. Bellarm. saith that Idem habet on the place of S. Paul in his Commentaries and Estius Ser. 3. vpon the same 118. Psal Which testimony hee alleadgeth for against the Conceit of Purgatory extracted hence so that if these testimonies are all one Ignis Conflagrationis is intended at the end of the world to beginne not the fire of Purgatory which is to bee consummated at the worlds end Post consummationem saeculi are Saint Ambrose words missis Angelis qui segregent bonos et malos hoc futurum est Baptisma quando per caminum ignis Iniquitas exuretur vt in regno Dei fulgeant iusti sicut Sol in regno Patris sui et si aliquis vt Petrus sit vt Iohannes baptizatur hoc igni This is a purging fire as well as a proouing and consuming fire as your Estius hath well obserued In which sense Saint Ambrose speaketh vt per ignem purgatus fiat saluus So you bely Saint Ambrose for explicating this very place of Purgatory in your sense Secondly you prooue it out of Hierome vpon the fourth of Amos 11. You were as a firebrand plucked forth of the burning where what Hierome hath for Purgatory I would willingly vnderstand of your Gagger-ship for I professe my disability to conceiue Hierome compareth that place of the Prophet with the other of Saint Paul and onely compareth it no more Hierome doth not determine Fire in eyther place to be your Purgatory fire all that can bee collected is That by fire Saint Hierome meant the seuere Iustice of God Cùm subuer si fuerint ob similitudinem criminum Sodomae et Gomorrhae pessimaque in ijs aedificia diuinus ignis exusserit ipsi liberentur quasi torris raptus de incendio Et quomodo Lot Sodomâ pereunte seruatus est amittens substantiam et partem corporis sui quam intelligimus vxorem sic omnes isti Sodomorum diuitias amittentes euadunt nudi iuxta illud quod in Apostolo legimus Si cuius opus arserit c. Si ergo saluatur per ignem quasitorris de incendio rapitur If there bee no fire but that in Purgatory I confesse this fire must bee that of Purgatory but if there bee many fires beside this of your Imagination it is rather any fire then that of Purgatory For I neuer yet heard that an Heretick dying an Heretick may haue his Heresie purged in Purgatory and so leauing that there as a snake her slough himselfe may stie vp to Heauen but without all controuersie out of that fire in Saint Hierome Hereticks be saued into Heauen Postquam in eo opera arserint in antiquum restituatur locum See the place Reader and tell mee thy opinion of this Gagger Saint Augustine cannot possibly vnderstand this place of your fire of Purgatory except hee will and doe contradict him For by your owne confessions Saint Augustine conceiued it of the Tribulations of this life therefore not of Purgatory after this life The words you meane in Saint Augustine vpon 37. Psal are It is said Hee shall bee saued yet as it were by fire And because it is said Hee shall bee saued therefore that fire is not regarded No maruell and yet that fire is more vnsufferable then any torment which a man can possibly vndergoe in this life Heere no doubt the game is vp for Saint Augustine Fire after this life and yet not eternall therefore of Purgatory no question Yes Sir a question Indeed no question what Saint Augustine meant For first he calleth it plainly Emendatorium ignem fire that correcteth men and
of the Sonne of man and drink his bloud you haue no life in you Lo without drinking no life euerlasting then poore deceiued Papists what will become of you you shall perish in your sinnes though your bloud shall bee required at the hands of your ignorant or rather deceitufll guides that thus mis-leade you from Christs Institution Luk. 24. 30 35. Christ at Emmaus communicated his disciples vnder one kinde Two things are insisted on out of these words as it appeareth by the laying downe First that this was actio sacra a Communion of the Body of our Sauiour then that it was done vnder one kinde this is taken as granted because there is no mention of drinking of Wine there is made mention of breaking the Bread Ignorants and wilfull take things amisse an ordinary Hebrew phrase it is in the Scriptures to eat bread to break bread for to eat and drink to take a refection or repast This man imagineth that all their meales were sicca conuiuia altogether without any liquor nor Wine nor Water vsed though in hot countries Such a foole would haue no other answer made vnto him but as Arisotle would haue made to him that should deny motion or that hee should neuer drink at his meales the best answer could possibly be made vnto him That it was actio sacra and not communis our Sauiour did celebrate the Communion of his Body and Bloud though I know it is controuerted for my part I will not contend at present I know it is held so by Augustine Theophylact and I adde too Beda and Hierome with others but take heede of the Precedent for if hee communicated onely Bread then I know not what vse of Wine at all there will bee in the blessed Sacrament For these were peraduenture of his Apostles but without all question of his Disciples and so had interest in the Cup if any had at all See more wee cannot Acts 2. 42. then we haue seene already mention made of breaking of Bread which is not exclusiue from drinking of Wine no more then 1. Cor. 11. 13. drinking doth exclude eating at all Poore shifts for Sacriledge and impiety of late made an Article of faith in the Church of Rome He that instituted the one ordained the other ioyntly both and at the same time with all circumstances alike if any aduantage is it is for Drink not for Eat For Drink you all of this saith the Author of the Sacrament hee saith not expresly Eat you all of this as foreseeing that impiety which in time humane presumption should bring-in vpon and against his owne institution fulfilled in the Church of Rome at this day XXXVII That Sacramental vnction is not to bee vsed to the sick VSe it if you will wee hinder you not nor much care or enquire what effects ensue vpon it but obtrude it not on vs or vnto the Church as in Censu of the Sacraments of the time of Grace as Baptisme is held and the Lords Supper Visible signes of inuisible Grace Powerfull instruments ordained by God to work in our Soules eternall Life by conueighing the meanes thereof vnto them Sacramental vnction call it if you please so farre as in the writings of the antient Fathers all Articles peculiar vnto our Christian faith and beliefe are sometime called Sacraments all duties of religious piety vnto God all diuine and Ecclesiasticall ceremonies are named Sacraments in which sense you might reckon not seuen but seuenscore if you were disposed to make a search for Sacraments In the Apostolicall and Primitiue Church it was a custome to anoint the sick with oyle to pray ouer them and so commit them vnto God This Saint Iames remembreth 5. 4. Is any sick among you Let him call for the Elders of the Church and let them pray ouer him anointing him with oyle in the name of the Lord. The Apostle doth not call it a Sacrament Sacramentall vnction as the Thesis proposeth and which is that should bee expresly prooued Our Bibles say the sick were anointed but not our Bibles nor theirs doe say that this anointing was a Sacrament And Fathers wee are not sent to see that proue it so the place is not to purpose as it is proposed Mar. 6. 13. is a Text defacto They anointed with oyle many that were sick and healed them but de iure there is not a word in that Text whether yea or no this Anointing should bee a Sacrament The Master of controuersies confesseth himselfe that it is not accorded whether in this Text or not Sacramentall vnction was instituted and himselfe is of opinion that it is not grounding on the resolution of the Councell of Trent to which all Papists are tyed to subscribe and yeeld and how dare you bring this as a proofe Now say the truth Sir Goose and shame the diuell How plain are these Texts that set your great Directors together by the ears Where were your sick wits that did not aduise you Take heed of falling foule with the Councel of Trent the cynosura of your faith Sure they were made of the pappe of an apple so easily they squeeze themselues out to nothing your great Dictators haue found hitherto but one direct Text Iames 5. 4. can we think your sharp sight should spy out three more a Fox or a Fearne-bush somewhat or nothing for Mat. 16. 18. Acts 28. 8. nor oyle nor vnction is remembred bare imposition of hands vpon the sick and diseased so that wee stand in some possibility heerafter to haue added an eightth Sacrament to the former seauen XXXVIII That no interior grace is giuen by the imposition of hands in the Sacrament of holy orders THis indeed is contrary vnto the expresse words of our Bible and therefore directly contrary to our Opinion Doctrine and Practice Can this fellowe bee so ignorant as not to know or rather so impudent as to deny that in giuing of holy orders we vse those memorable formall words of our Sauiour Receiue the holy Ghost Was euer man made Minister in the Church of England but in that sort with that forme Can hee deny that wee not onely practise it but propugne it command it to bevsed enquire of and punish the neglect opposition and contempt thereof What shall wee say to such a base detracting Varlet as shameth not in view of heauen and earth to deny the Sun shineth at noone-day Romane Catholiques I admire your patience that suffer such Hog-rubbers to leade you by the nose and make you beleeue the snowe is black Poore deceiued Soules trust no such Merchants that would sell you to the diuell for a morsell of bread and make you stand out vpon tearms of Separation for their owne aduantages against the Church as Schismaticks in which you liue and haue beene baptized XXXIX That Priests and other religious Persons or any others who haue vowed their chastity vnto God may freely marry notwithstanding their vowes TOuching marriage of Ministers this is our Doctrine resolued