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A84830 Truth's defence against the refined subtilty of the serpent held forth in divers answers to severall queries made by men (called ministers) in the North. Given forth by the light and power of God appearing in George Fox and Richard Hubberthorn Fox, George, 1624-1691.; Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 1653 (1653) Wing F1970; Thomason E724_12; ESTC R207270 97,279 111

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thy Reason but Truth hath comprehended thee who art for destruction thou high Blasphemer and Lucifer like VVhereas thou askest whether is he but the Gift and Dispensator and Maker out of the Fathers love to sinners as a Mediator and Advocate betwixt the Fater and them he is him whom the Father loveth who is the Mediator who is thy destruction God so loved the world that he gave his onely begotten Son into the world that whosoever believed on him should not perish but have everlasting life Iohn 3. 16. Friend thou art but querying to seed thy fleshly minde who art one of them that crucifiest him high in thy presumption so to thee he is no Mediator and to thee he is no Gift nor made manifest but art querying without of him and one of them that say Lo here and lo there Matth. 24. 23. and thy knowledg is the Letter and that is the Original and Gift and Manifestacion which is dust which ●eeds thee Serpent which the Curse is upon and it is the Seed of the Woman that must bruise thy Head as God who hath promised and sayd Gen. 3. 15. and this must every one witness who witness Christ thou with thy evil eye lookest at Christ and God at a distance and the Father and the Son at a distance as thou saydst before he set him at a distance which crosseth the life of Christ who sayd I in thee and thou in me Father as thou and I are one Iohn 17. 21. and he that hath the Father hath the Son and the Son is in the Father and in the Fountain but thou to this art ignorant who art scraping with thy carnal Reason to get up to the highest Pinnacle to tempt Christ who sittest as a Judg upon the Father and Christ and who crucifiest him and knowest not God but thou must be judged with him even the spiritual man and as it is written the first man is of the Earth earthly and the second is the Lord from Heaven 1 Cor. 15. 47. but thou sayst Christ is not truly God O thou false Judg who knowest neither God nor Christ who art making a separacion betwixt the Son and God and who art setting Christ at a distance who sayth he is in the Father and who makest a Ly upon the Scriptures and speakest contrary to them which thou callest the Original for it sayth In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and became Flesh and dwelt amongst us Iohn 1. and they knew him not no more do ye know him now who dwels amongst us but seek to crucifie him where ever he is made manifest who hath his being in the Father thou Enemy of God and of all Righteousness who sayth so not the Substance and Fountain in the bult and dignity in thy bult and dignity he is not here thou hast shewed forth thy self thou Lyar who sayst Christ is not in the bult as thou callest it and dignity who presumptuously wouldst sit as a Judg upon him to whom all power in Heaven and Earth is given to the Son Matth. 28. 18. who is in the Fountain and the Fountain in him who is in power and dignity who shall overthrow thee and thy dignity thou who art raced out from God and the Son and again thou queryest what is Christ it is him thou crucifiest and seekest to crucifie and slay and here thou Tempter who art without art querying whether Christ hath a Body and the Father none shewing thy self not to know the Lords Body for the Son is in the Father and they are one and with thy carnal eye lookest upon him to be like thy self if thou knowest his Body thou knowest the Fathers for they are both one thou full of subtlety who art querying how the Son may be distinguished from the Father he that knows the Son knows the Father and he that sees the Son sees the Father for he is in the Father and they are not to be distinguished but it is thou who art without in the world who art making many Gods as the world doth 1 Cor. 5. 8. Ier. ● 28. and art distinguishing who art distinguished from the Father and the Son who art making and makest three Gods and knowst none nor hast none but the God of the World to rule thee and here thou twining Serpent who art ensnaring art ensnared who art full of subtlety and catcht in thy wile who hast been rabbling upon thou knowst not what with thy filthy minde and talkest of thou dost not know what so thou art turned and must be turned into that which to thee will be hot and the Son and the Father are one I and my Father are one Iohn 10 30. and not two but to thee he that hath an Ear let him hear but here thou hast none who hast a busie minde medling with that which doth not concern thee and so thou shewest thy self where thou art 6 Query Whether there be a pure and an eternal Light in every Male and Female if a true and saving Light in and to every one how is it that there shall so many perish Is Satan stronger than God Shall or can flesh and bloud quench and extenuate the Spirit in his operacion and so the arm of the Almighty shortned frustrated and made void by the disobedience of flesh Is there a power in every man as he is man to be saved if he will Answ Christ sayth I am the Light of the world that enlightneth every one that cometh into the world Iohn 1. 9. The one he loves the Light and brings his works to the Light and walks in the Light and to him there is no occasion of stumbling Iohn 3. 20 21. and you that hate the Light you stumble and know not whither you go who hast put forth so many stumbling Queryes and with thy dark minde thou canst not comprehend the Light but Light comprehends thee and sees thy end and intent which Light shall be thy condemnacion John 1. 5. and thou sayst How is it that there shall so many perish that which asketh the question must perish who hates the Light as thou dost and gayusays the truth shall perish as Core did Iude 11. and the Eternal pure Light shall be thy condemnacion in thy own mouth shalt thou be judged who livest in the disobedience of the pure Light and slightest his mercyes and turnest the free Grace of God into wantonness the mouth of the Lord of Hosts hath spoken it who is the Lord God of Heaven and Earth and my arm is not shortned sayth the Lord and Satan is exalted above all that is called God in thee 2 Thess 2. 4. thou son of perdicion and that which is of God in thee is imprisoned and thou with thy fleshly minde crucifiest the just and quenchest the Spirit as the Iews did who crucified Christ as thou readest in the Letter Iohn 19. and in that generacion thou art if thou hast an Ear thou mayst hear thou Enemy of
25. Paul spoke his condicion that he was in to the Saints and what he had passed through which yet thou art alive in the flesh and not come to know the Law of God therefore thy carnal minde rules and reigns in thee and so thou art making a distinction in the Apostles words and wresting of them who witnessed that there was no condemnacion to him that was in Christ Iesus and witnessed the condicion under the Law and without the Law and was made free from the Law through the Law which thou knowest not so thou being a dead man canst not hear thou speakest of a Victory and reigning power of sin and yet in the conclusion of thy words thou speakest to the contrary again and that thou art of that minde that Victory is not fully enjoyed while we are on the earth and here thou speakest contrary to the Scriptures and there is a confusion in thy words for first thou sayst there is a Victory and Dominion ●ver the reigning power of sin and then again thou denyest it and here thou shewest Babylon for the Apostle sayd We are more than conq●●rours through him that loved us and there is no condemnacion to them who are in Christ Iesus Another Scripture thou wouldst be satisfied in 1 Cor. 15. 54. the Apostle did speak what he saw in this Chapter which thou hast taken a word or two of and we witness and see the same yet death reigns in thee and corruption reigns in thee and the natural minde which doth despise the glory of God therefore is this Scripture hid from thine eys but it is as it speaks we witness it to be fulfilled and the Apostle was in the condicion that he spoke of for he witnessed the Victory and sayd Thanks be to God who hath given us the Victory through our Lord Iesus Christ 1 Cor. 15. 55 56. and sayd O death where is thy sting O grave where is thy victory Rom. 5. 9. and thou hast raced out thy self from the Apostles and from the Saints condicions and shewest that death yet hath dominion over thee and that sin hath dominion over thee and that the mortal hath dominion over the and that corrupcions have dominion over thee and that that thou art in the grave and that Victory cannot be witnessed and art an enemy to it and hast not so much as a belief in thee of overcoming of sin and here thou hast shewed thy hypocrites hope as thou sayst and so keepest poor people in death in corruption and in the mortal and carnal minde and in the grave and in unbelief as thou art in thy self and shewest that thou art damned openly he that believeth not is condemned already he that believeth is born of God and doth not commit sin but is passed from death to life Query 10. Whether any natural man can preach the Gospel yea or no Priests Answer I do believe they may preach the historical part of the Gospel I believe Iudas did preach and was not behinde in his gift to outward vie● of the eleven Apostles for the Apostles had no ground to have any ill conceits of him for had they they would soon have reflected on him when Christ sayd One of you shall betray me but they questioned themselves and not him Matth. 26. 21 22. And God gives great gifts many times to wicked men Rom 2. 18 19 20. 2 Cor. 11. 13 14 15. Ministers of Satan may be transformed into Ministers of righteousness Gal. ● 8. They cannot preach the mystery of the Gospel nor Christ from their own experience or enjoyment for this they know not 't is folly to them 1 Cor. 2. 14. A Reply to the Priests Answer Here thou art pleading for the natural man for Iudas and the false Apostles and it is true in that generacion thou art among them and therefore thou must needs love thy own and stand up for them for no other generacion thou knowest I am a witness against thee and I know thee and have tryed thy spirit to be one of these false Teachers which wouldst transform thy self into an Angel of light and which dost intrude into these things thou never knewst and so thou puffest up thy fleshly minde there thou art I witness thee there eternally by the Eternal spirit Thou sayst Ministers of Satan may be transformed into Ministers of righteousness 2 Cor. 11. 15. here thou wouldst make Satan and righteousness one and shewest forth thy error not knowing the words as the Apostle speaks and if they cannot preach the mystery of the Gospel how can they be transformed into righteousness for the Ministers of Satan transform themselves as the Ministers of righteousness but he doth not say he transforms into it here thou shewest thy self to be a Lyar and thy self to be one of those who are no Ministers of the Gospel getting the form but denying the power 2 Tim. 3. 5. which ever was to be turned away from whose end is destruction according to their works and so thou shewest all along that thou hast but onely the form of the Apostles words for thou pleadest for them who are without and against those who are within who are in the power and life of the truth thou pleadest against the truth and the life which the Apostles were in and the life of the Apostles for the Apostles did discern the false Apostles and those who did transform themselves so with the same spirit we discern thee to be in the same generation among them and there thou must own thy porcion and own the Scriptures to be tru and thy porcion in it which it speaks of to the false Prophets and false Apostles Another Scripture thou bringest 1 Cor. ● 14. thou bringest a Scripture which sayth The natural man receiveth not the things that be of the Spirit of God they are foolishness to him that is thy own condi●ion own that Scripture for a truth to thy self for the preaching of Christ and the Cross is foolishness to thee as it was to them that held up the Iewish Synagogues which yet thou holdest up another in imitation from the carnal Letter being carnal and blinde and ignorant of the mystery and of Christ and of the Gospel but the mystery and Christ and the Gospel we witness and own but we have not re●●ived it of man neither were we taught it of man but by the revelacion of Iesus Christ Gal. 1. 12. and we do witness forth the substance as the Apostle did and therefore we do deny all such as thou art who art not so much as a Minister of the Letter and hast not yet got the form of it to speak it tru as the form is but thou hast shewed forth thy ignorance and foolishness of the form of the Letter Query 11. Whether the Tree be not known by its fruits yea or no Priests Answer No question but it is Christ himself says so but I pray thee tell me did ever a good Tree bring forth Despe●a●ion
thou hast shewed forth thy ignorance not to discern the Lords Body and to be of them that would make a division in the Body that is spoken of in the Scripture for the Body of Christ is but one as it is written being many members yet one Body 1 Cor. 12. 20. and Christ is the Head and Members of this Body and liveth in it I in thee and thou in me that they may be one as thou Father art in me and I in thee Iohn 27. he that can receive it let him but thou art he who doth not discern the Lords Body therefore thou eatest and drinkest damnacion to thy self 1 Cor. 11. 29. and to thee it is a mystery and damnacion thou must know and with that Eye thou shalt never see it for it is evill as Herods was who sought after the Child to worship him but would have slain him Matth. 2. 13. he that raiseth the Body he is the judg of the world in flames of fier and in flaming fier and in vengeance shalt thou know and in judgment 2 Thes 1. 7. 8. who art without in the world querying about his body who is the Resurrection John 11. 25. and in this Query thou hast shewed forth thy dark mind which is full of Confusion and thy self to be ignorant of the Body of Christ and with thy fleshly understanding which is for destrukcion thou wouldst know it and this minde which hath asked this Question but the Righteousness of Faith speaks on this wise not to say to fetch Christ from above or descnd into the deep that is to bring up Christ again from the dead But what sayth it the word is nigh thee even in thy mouth and in thy heart that is the word of Faith which wee preach Rom. 10. 6. 7. 8. wherein thou hast showed thy self that gavest forth these Queries that you never heard this word of Faith preached to you and he is the Head and the Saints are the Body Eph. 4. 15. and in him we live who sit with Christ in heavenly places Eph. 2. 6. and his body is but one and he lives in it for ever whom the Heavens must receive untill the time of Restitucion of all things Acts 3. 21. but you dark Sots this is a mystery to you as Christ is who is the Head of the Body and this Body of Christ which thou desirest to know thou shalt never know nor see for thou art for judgment and condemnacion ordained of Old Iude 13. and in darkness thou livest who art dead in Sins and Trespasses Eph. 2. 1. and who art querying after Christ whether he be a particular Person showing forth the same minde that was in the Iewes who knew not Christ but queried whether he was the Carpenters Son or no Math. 13. 55. who was not born by the will of man and is born now but not by the will of man him you know not nor cannot se Iohn 1 13. nor believe where he is made manifest and he is but one in all his Saints who is their Head Rom. 7 4. and their Life who comes into the World from above and redeemes and makes free from Sin and the Law with the Body of Christ he that hath an Eare may hear to us it is plainness who are in the Gate and Fold but to you it is a mystery who live in the mystery a● Iniquity who are without the Gate and Christ is the Resurrection and the Judg Iohn 11. 25. that shalt thou finde when he comes upon thee to render vengance in flames of fier Iohn 5 22. who art a Childe of Disobedience 2 Query With what Bodies shall the Saints arise with and dwell and live in for ever shall there be given to every particular Saint a particular Body Answ Whereas thou wouldst know with what Body the Saints shall arise In that Body which Christ doth live in for he is the Saviour of the Body he is the Head of the Body he is the Resurrection and the Life of the Body and his Body is but one So wee are many members yet one Body Cor. 12. 20. and here thou hast showed thou dost not discern the Lords Body but art under the Damnacion Thou Fool whereas thou wouldst know whether there shall be given to every particular Saint a particular Body and with what Bodies they shall arise as they said in the Corinthians with what Bodies shall they come and how should the dead be raysed Paul makes answer Thou fool that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die and that which thou sowest thou sowest not that Body that shall be but bare grain it may chance of Whear or of some other grain but God giveth it a Body as it hath pleased him and to every seed his own Body All flesh is not the same flesh but there is one kind of flesh of Men another flesh of Beasts another of Fishes and another of Birds there are also Celestiall Bodyes and Bodies Terrestiall but the glory of the Celestial is one and the glory of the Terrestiall is another There is one glory of the Sun another glory of the Moon and another glory of the Stars for one Star differeth from another Star in glory So also is it in the Resurrection of the dead if thou hast an Eare thou mayst hear but thou Fool art never the wiser here but thou art a Conjurer and livest in Conjuracion Ier. 27. 9. Zach. 10. 2. 3 Query With what Bodies shall the wicked arise with natural or spirituall Answ With thy corrupt naturall spirituall wickedness to Condemnacion with that Body doth the wicked arise that thou livest in thou Enimy of God shalt finde it and the Eye in thee shall see destruction and eternall Condemnacion who queriest with what Bodies the wicked shall arise thou art risen high in thy spirituall wickedness Ephes 6. 12. who livest in the corrupt nature and high art thou risen in it whose Judgment is appearing and Judg stands at the door and lingers not whose damnacion slumbers not 2 Pet. ● 3. If thou hast an Eare thou mayst hear and there read thy Porcion and thy Answer to the Query 4 Query Whether is there or shall there be a Locall Place of Heaven and Hell to be inhabited and dwelt in for the Saints to enjoy and the Wicked to suffer in with their Bodyes And how shall they be tormented with materiall Fier and Brimston or how And if every Saint and Devil have a particular Body must there not be a particular Locall Place Can Bodies be no where Must they not rest and stand upon some place the Saints singing Hallelujah to the Highest for evermore Answ In thy Query thou hast uttered forth thy Confusion who hast joyned Heaven and Hell together and whereas thou wouldst know whether there is or there shall be a Locall Place of Heaven and Hell here thou shewest forth thy blindness in that thou knowest neither Heaven nor Hell and in the Locall Place as thou calst