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A10910 [The displaying of an horrible secte of grosse and wicked heretiques, naming themselues the family of loue with the liues of their authours and what doctrine they teach in corners. Newly set foorth by I.R. Whereunto is added certeine letters sent from the same family mainteyning their opinions, which letters are aunswered by the same J.R.] Rogers, John, fl. 1560-1580.; Batman, Stephen, d. 1584. 1579 (1579) STC 21182; ESTC S100037 92,004 238

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good calling in London which is readie to testifie the same and both the parties are liuing when the one did expostulate very earnestly why the other once professing the Gospell of Christ Iesus was nowe turned vnto the errour of H. N. The other answered It is a wise Gospell which I professed then I knowe an other manner of Gospell farre better then that in such reputation haue the Familie the bookes and doctrine of H. N. But why H. N. intituleth his followers A familie of Loue I think it to be a mysterie not to be explicated Euery errour hath supposed them selues to be the true Church but H. N. is contented that his be counted a Familie Why he addeth this word Loue I could neuer perfectly learne but as some haue interpreted to me this word Loue in many places of the authour doth signifie the Maiestie of God ▪ as in these thrée phrases The louely being of the Loue or The manly oldnesse in the Loue Here Loue is takē in both places for God according to this s●●ying Deus ●st Charita● God is Loue but why they vse this 〈◊〉 the so much I cānot well vnderstand It is true that God is Loue or Charitie so is he Iustice so is he Mercie and all other like vertues ● but they are not in him as qualities one extelling another as they reigne in man but he is Loue ▪ without measure euen Loue it selfe euen so Iustice it self euen so Mercy it selfe he is all Loue he is all Mercie he is all iustice But when we speake of any of these which procéede from the Maiestie of God we vnderstande not by any one of these God him selfe For as his ●one is excéeding great so his mercy also therefore by as good right may an other bring foorth a doctrine or Familie of Mercie as H. N. a Familie of Loue For mercie is our gret comfort mercy is the faires● flower of our garland We read in the holy scriptures of diuers sortes of loue of which thrée be principall The first is y loue of God towardes his children set foorth in these wordes So God loued the worlde that he gaue his only begotten son that none that beleeue in him should perish but haue life euerlasting which loue how perfect it is and howe excellent it passeth the capacitie of man to conceiue much lesse to vtter or describe It caused that beloued and elect vessell Saint Paule to exclame and crie out Oh the exceeding greatnesse and deapth of the loue of God which loued vs first 1. Ioh. 4. Chap. vers 19 this loue is perfect in déede The second loue that is expressed is the loue of vs againe towardes God appearing in these words If ye loue me keepe my commandementes And againe The loue of God is shead abroad in our heartes Ro. 5. Chap. vers 5. whiche loue in vs howe vnperfect it is euery one féeleth in himselfe and is a witnesse The third is the loue that one of vs should shew towards an other whiche properly is called Charitie appearing in these words By this shal al men knowe that you are my disciples if yee loue one an other And againe A newe commaundement I giue vnto you that ye loue one an other Ioh. 13. Chap. 14. vers Nowe if I might be so bolde as to demand this questiō of H. N. or any of their Illuminate Elders of which of these thrée loues is their fellowship If they say of the first which is the loue of God towardes man they deceiue thē selues for of that felowship none is partaker but Christe Iesus our Lorde If thei bee of the second which is the loue of man towardes our God it is so imperfect and corrupt in vs that I thinke they will not acknowledge them selues to be members of such imperfection If they will be of the third which is of the loue we owe one towardes an other I thinke if they enter in to sée how weak and féeble it is in vs and in euery one of Gods childrē they shal easily iudge how farre off they are frō that they shold be as if ye looke into S. Pauls first Epistle 13. Chapter verse 4. there shall you sée the properties of loue rightly described howe loue boasteth not enuieth not séeketh not her owne reioyceth not in iniquitie suffereth all things beléeueth all thinges hopeth all thinges indureth all things But how these shall be found in any yea euen in y best of gods children if we rightly iudge ourselues I cānot discerne Of this laste loue if they will haue their felowship then let thē behold how vnperfect their Familie is contrarie to that they vainly brag Where H. N. hath written these words We the Elders of the holy vnderstanding shall reigne vpon the earth in righteousnesse vnder the obedience of loue iudge the world with equitie When these things shall come to passe this dreamer which would be taken for a Prophet doth not tell vs Here thou maiest sée this Prophete persuading his Familie y the Elders shall reigne vpon the earth in iudgement and equitie Who would not followe this authour ●hat so plentifully will reward his scholers to make them vpon earth Kings and Iudges I doubt his words be no warrants nor his promise any payment for it is 28. yeres ago since he made this solemne protestation and yet none of the Familie do inioy any part of the promise but contrarie it doth appeare y none of his Elders neither in England Flaunders or else where dare once be so bold as to defend their dreaming prophet but subtilly in corners insinuate vnto the simple sort féed them with many outward promises but to argue or dispute their cause with any of Gods children therein they kéeye silence and prefend ignorance affirming their elders to be able to defend their Authour and his doctrin but they are but partakers of the holy vnderstan ding And when you happen to méete any of their Elders you shall finde them as farre without sense or féeling of the spirit of God as y yonger sort although they can set a shew of greater grauitie ▪ And bicause I haue often made mentiō of their Illuminate Elders I thinke it not amisse to name one and the same notoriously known His name is Christopher Vittell a ioyner by occupation a man that all the dayes of Queene Marie was a teacher of those famous heretiques the Arrians and at Paules Crosse did solemnely in the first yeare of our souerein Lady Queene Elizabeth recant the same errours as by the register of y bishop of Londō doth manifestly apeare And nowe as th● olde prouerbe is he is gone A malo in peius from euil to worse ▪ Such men as can not be content with the simple trueth taught in the holy scripture but curiously séeke for singularitie do easily fall into such bypaths as our enimie by his subtiltie can lead them vnto And to speake truely this is the onely man that hath brought
our simple people out of the plame wayes of the Lorde our God and hath put so many toyes of this authour H. N. into their heades that I feare me they will not easily be remoued What trauell he hath taken howe he hath trudged from countrie to countrie and howe he will not once moue his speach if any learned or godly persons that hath any true knowledge of the worde be present is very wel known but among the simple he is péerelesse and in déede the oldest Elder of our English Familie amongst whome he hath his maintenance His wife is resident in London with whom as is supposed he hath not bene these two-yeares In corners doth this man créepe and dare not shewe his head nor maintaine that doctrine which he hath taught but certaine of his pupils haue béene imprisoned who in the end haue subscribed against th● doctrine of H. N. which Vittel doth teach Euerie doctrin whiche is true dare abide the light but the doctrin of H. N is kept in corners dare not abide the light a certeine Argument that it is a counterfet doctrine For no one man dare once open his mouth or put penne to paper to defende their Author in England but amongst the simple whose capacitie is like vnto waxe which will easily receiue euerie seale or print among such will he sound his trumpe He saith the last trumpe shall blowe by which he vnderstandeth the last doctrine which shal be published vpon earth ▪ which is as he saith this doctrine of H. N. How he miserably doeth expound the holie scripture vnto the simple people in corners my heart doth lament how he driueth the true sense of the holie Ghost into allegories it pitieth me to heare and other wise to interpret the holie scripture is to sticke in the letter as he vntruly affirmeth But woe be vnto those simple people which doe giue eare vnto such false teachers they can not with the Lorde our God pleade simplicitie and ignorance by no meanes can excuse them If the blinde leade the blinde they both fall into the ditche The greatest gréefe that I conceiue against y Nouices of y Family is that some of them haue béene prosessours of Christ Iesus Gospel according to the brightnesse thereof which by his good will and pleasure he hath reuealed in this latter age most plentiously and now by the doctrine of this Vittell are declined so farre that the true sense of the Gospel they despise and followe the baine and fantasticall humor of Vittels allegories a man vtterly vnlearned more fitte to be a scholler in Christes schoole then an Illuminat Elder in the Familie and so a teacher He that neuer learned Christe Iesus truely ▪ howe cā he teach Christ Iesus to others And in déede if he taught Christe Iesus he were to be borne withall but that is not the marke they shoote at To set vp H. N. as a Prophet to aduance his preceptes to credite his spéeche to beléeue that he is Godded with God and cannot erre is their whole inde●our But amongst the rest in déede they insinuate a good life which they pretende to followe which is as the visard and cloake to hide al the rest of their grosse and absurde doctrine and the hooke and baite whereby the simple are altogether deceiued And this is the subtiltie of Sathan who otherwise could not preuaile with such bewitched doctrine except it were shadowed vnder the cloake of outward holinesse For there is no sound argument a good life is all that is required for vs to do with this the Familie doe séeme to presse Gods children often in conference For if y will serue to saluation I sée not how the Iewe or Turke can be excluded whose workes outwardly if they be viewed shall condemne vs. Howe close vnto the letter of the lawe doeth the Iewe sticke How willingly doe they abide as vagrant and banished men in euerie countrie How pitifully doe they reléeue their brethren whiche want so that none is found to want that which another is not ready to supply which are notes markes of charitie or loue and truely in my opinion we come not néere the Iewe in this point But I pray you what doeth all this auaile without a true and a righte fayth in Christ Iesus the sonne of God The Turke likewise is a great diligēt obseruer of his Alcaron a great faster or absteiner a great giuer of almes diligent in prayer seuere in kéeping his worde and promise verie charie in kéeping his Sabbathes verie obedient to Princes and Magistrates and to speak truth in many outward vertues doth farre excell vs Christians to our shame it may be spoken but what doth all this auayle For so much as they blaspheme Christ the sonne of God and denie his Godhed and resurrection they haue no part nor fellowship with vs of the promise of God touching Christ our Lord neither are partakers of his mercie which through Christe we féele in our heartes to our great consolation comfort Without faith it is vnpossible to please God. Therefore aright faith in Christe our Lord is cheefely to be required and sought after and then our workes will of necessitie follow For it is the proper fruite of that excellent trée a true faith can neuer be without his works which sticke so close together that they are inseparable A faithfull man can neuer be without good-workes no more then fire can be without heate and yet a faithful man is not without sinne as H. N. doth auouche of his regenerate man We haue many examples to proue that a faithfull man or a regenerat man doth sinne often and to vse the wordes of the Prophet Dauid Septies in die cadit iustus seuen times a day doth the righteous fal This cānot be vnderstood but of a faithfull and regenerat man Dauid was regenerate when he fell into whoredome and murther Peter was regenerat whē he denied with cursing Christ our lord Paule was regenerate when he solemnly pronounced those wordes Christe Iesus came into the world to saue sinners of the which number I am the greatest And I am persuaded that we are neuer so néere vnto God our Lorde as when we féele sinne moste heauie God calleth not such as be emptie or féele not the loade of sinne but Come vnto mee all ye that are loaden with sinne I wil refresh you I speake not of the reprobate who in déede féele in this life a hell in their conscience and do dispaire but GODS children do féele themselues wounded with sinne euen to death but by grace giuen from aboue they doe apply that souereigne salue that wholsome medicine Christe Iesus whose passion hath purchased whose bloud hath cleansed whose death hath cured all our diseases and maladies This comfort doth H. N. take away from his Family and placeth in stéed thereof his owne preceptes without comfort to a troubled minde For his doctrine is That wee must growe vp vnto the manly oldnesse