a new Temple altar preisthood and signes differing from Christs as in deed he hath doen. And that idolatrous house erected for the worship of the true God not onely the Israelites but the Prophet Amos calleth the house that is the Temple of their god Am. 2. 8. as Paul calleth the house wherin Antichrist sitteth the temple of God 2 Thes. 2. yet this man blameth me for comparing that Temple with Ieroboams idol temples which Israel builded when he forgat his Maker Hos. 8. 14. how justly let men of judgment consider 2. His 2. exception is about Babylon and the Beast that I make them one with the Church of Rome and distinguish not Babylon from Sion This I have before cleared shewing that the church of Rome is the whore of Babylon Rev. 17. and I distinguish it from Sion which he confoundeth with Babylon being himself in that blame which he would impute unto me And to teach that God calleth us out of any civil state or goverment I have formerly proed to be erroneous and seditious contrary to the Apostles Rom. 13. 1 Pet. 2. 3. That Antichrists Apostasie and the church of Rome with him is much worse then Ieroboams and Israels with him I constantly affirme and let the synns of them both be compared and it wil soon appear Did Ieroboam pray unto creatures as the church of Rome doth to innumerable even all Saincts and Angels and some mere fictions Did Ieroboam hold any of those manifold blasphemous heresies now holden in the church of Rome Nay let the very Babylonians of old be taken and I wil undertake to prove that the church of Rome is not behinde them but in respect of the light of the Gospel revealed by Christ much worse 4. I grant that in Pauls time the church of Rome was set in the way of God and soon after fell into apostasie but where he chargeth me to say that the ordinances of God stil reteyned in that church are stollen he wrongeth me For I acknowledge not this church now to be that which was in Pauls time but a counterfeit arisen since a theif partner with Antichrist in robbing the church as the Babylonians robbed the Temple and abusing the ordinances therof to their perdition But then he objecteth Jf the church of Rome should repent c. they should not reteyn the baptisme and other ordinances of God which she hath but must part with them seing they are stollen goods And here he insulteth asking the Anabaptists how they can ever be thankfull ynough to me for thus pleading their cause c. Answ. If the Babylonians should have repented and joyned to the church of God at Ierusalem they there might have had an holy and lawful use of Gods vessels altars c which before they had stollen and abused so may these spirituall Babylonians have at this day if God give them grace to repent joyne unto Sion Here then the Anabaptists wil conne mine opposite but little thank for his gratulation 5. He calleth it my like errour and iniquitie to match baptisme and the other ordinances of God in the church of Rome with the feasts worship and sacrifices of the heathen who were without Christ and without God c. These assertions he sayth are miserable and Anabaptistical Answ. But why then doth he not refute them by the word of truth I could as easily call his assertions miserable and Papisticall but he would take that for no sound conviction And had he but related mine own words in that 85. page of my book the reader might have seen how little cause he had to exclaime â— I spake not generally of the heathens feasts worship and sacrifices as he would intimate to his reader but distinctly of those which had been ordeyned of God differing from other of their own devisings 2. I sayd the heathens kept Gods ordinance as well as Rome with their sacrifice of the Mass. He telleth his reader I match the baptisme c in Rome with the worship and sacrifices of the heathen Is this good dealing so to change my words But sundry such injuries I must beare And why may we think doth he in sted of the Lords supper now turned into a Romish mass put baptisme But because he thinketh that he hath colour to plead for one sacrament more then for an other In handling that point of their baptisme I instanced this other seale our Lords supper and an other ordinance of God Excommunication both which he passeth over yea every where when it cometh in his way he shunneth it throughout his book as in this place He knew well it was as a red hot yron that would burn his fingers But of it we shal speak more when we come to handle their baptisme 3. To his reason I answer the heathens were in deed without Christ and without God Eph. 2. and so are these Romish Antichristians or els the Apostle hath not given us a true rule to discerne Antichrist by that he denyeth both the Father and the Son 1 Joh. 2. 22. The hethens reteyned the knowledge of the true God in some mesure as their writings manifest and worshiped ignorantly the true God whom th'Apostles preached Act. 17. 23. so the Antichristians ignorantly worship the true God whom we preach and beleeve and as ignorantly by stocks and stones and prayers in an unknowen tongue like Parrats as did the heathens of old The hethens reteyned a knowledge of Christ the Redeemer figured in the sacrifices ordeyned of God so the Antichristians reteyn a knowledge of Christ in name and signified in the sacraments but as impiously doe they abuse them by holding they conferr grace ex opere operato by the work doen and other iniquities mixed with them as did the heathens and by beleeving and worshiping a Christ made of bread they surpass the heathens in ignorance and idolatrie Finally had mine opposite read Mr. Bezaes larger annotations on Eph. 2. as he read him on 2 Thes. 2. he might have seen the Antichristians very litle inferiour to the heathens without God even in Mr. Bezaes judgment which yet I suppose he would not have called miserable and Anabaptisticall as he doeth in me Touching the state of Israel in my discourse as he calleth it he confesseth I have many truthes which he also holdeth yet some sleightes errors c also mixed which he instanceth Seing he yeildeth the rest for truthes I referr the reader to the things there written which being observed he may the better judge of our controversie As first that we both agree The covenant between God man was alwayes conditional by the Law if they did his commandments they should live by them if they continued not in all things written in the Law to doe them they were cursed By the Gospel he that beleeveth in the Son of God hath everlasting life and he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life And all the figurative covenants that
Jsrael had were also conditional blessings promised to the obedient and curses to the transgressors 2. That mans breaking of the covenant is alwayes by syn and so God never breaketh covenant But by punishing and putting from him the rebellious we may say God breaketh or disanulleth the covenant Whensoever a people by syn forsake God and refuse his word calling them to repentance they cannot have themselves neyther can other men have concerning them any assurance of their salvation or that they abide in the covenant of his grace For whosoever abideth in him he synneth not whosoever synneth hath not seen him neyther knowen him Be it man or woman or family or tribe which turne their hart from the Lord to serve other gods though they bless themselves in their harts c. the Lord wil not be mercifull unto them Deut. 29. 18. 19. 20. These things being plaine by the scriptures and by him yeilded with many other things which I wil not here repeate he though he could not contradict yet intimateth notable heresie against me Whether J doe not in some things speak so about the covenant as may establish the righteousnes of works in some respect Alwayes remembring that the covenant of God wherof we speak is this to Abraham J wil be a God to thee and to thy seed after thee and J wil be your God and ye shal be my people Gen. 17. 7. 22. 18. Hos. 2. 23. Zach. 13. 9. with Act. 2. 39. 3. 25. Rom. 9. 25. 26. Answ. As I from my hart abhorre that heresie of righteousnes by the works of the Law as that which maketh Christs death in vaine and abolisheth grace Gal. 2. 21. Rom. 11. 6. so I trust no equal reader wil gather any such doctrine frō my writings though this man without all proof insinuateth it more then once against me 2. In repeating the covenant he useth not plainnes I might say sinceritie For those words in Gen. 17. 7. are but one part of the covenant to weet on Gods behalf he should have expressed the stipulation foregoing in vers 1. 2. walke before me and be thou perfect and J wil make my covenant between me and thee and after in vers 9. Thou shalt keep my covenant therfore c. So the other scripture◠by him cited doe not so fully express the covenant on both parts as doth Heb. 8. 10. 11. 12. Where both forgivenes of synns to justification and writing of the Law in our harts to sanctification and obedience are shewed to be the covenant of Gods grace with men He taxeth me as for error and contradiction in seeking to perswade that God brake the covenant on his part with Jsrael when all the tribes were togither Animadvers p. 88 and yet after in the same page say that whiles Jsrael was one they continued Gods church Answ. Herein he wrongeth me as he too often useth and keepeth not my words or meaning neyther taketh away the reasons from the scripture which I there set down I spake not of The covenant in generall as he would give his reader to understand but of a covenant and a condition of the covenant And what I sayd I proved from Exod. 6. 4. 5. 8. J have stablished my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan c. Then God brought them to the borders of the counttie and sayd Loe the land is before you goe up and possess it Deut. 1. 20. 21. but they were afrayd and would not goe up through their unbeleef Then the Lord was presently wroth and swore that not one of those transgressors should see that good land neyther did they but dyed in the wildernes Deut. 2. 1. c. Heb. 3. 17 19. Againe I instanced a condition of the covenant on Gods part that he would cast out the Canaanites c and on Israels part that they should make no compact with the inhabitants But when they brake covenant and agreed with them for tribute the Lord also presently brake with them saying J sayd J wil never break my covenant with you but you have not obeyed my voice wherfore J say also J wil not cast them out before you c. Iudg. 2. 1. 2. 3. 20. 21 Now what sayth mine opposite to these things are they not so He neyther yeildeth to the trueth neyther could stand before it but shunning to meddle with my reasons turneth upon me who shewed them as the reader hath seen and in sted of a covenant and a condition of the covenant setteth down the covenant meaning the covenant of grace and salvation wheras notwithstanding the breaking of these covenants conditions and other the like the people by repentance held fast through faith the covenant of grace For Moses and Aaron and many other who for their synns could not come into the land of Canaan yet are in heaven through the covenant of grace And so though some conditions of the covenant were broken both on their part and on Gods yet they being brought to repentance continued his church That herein I neyther wrote error nor contradicted my self as he would perswade against me And these things that fell out in Israel on both parts touching these figurative promises doe teach us the like touching the spiritual promises of eternal life if men break concerning them as in repentance faith and holynes without which men perish and shall never see God Luke 13. 3. Act. 2. 38. Mar. 16. 16. Heb. 12. 14. He next findeth fault That J shuffle togither the estates of Jsrael when they were one body and when they were rent in two Also whilest Israel was in the land and presence of the Lord and when they were cast out of his house and presence Animadv p. 88. 89. 90. 91. Answ. The first is a wrong imputation as the reader may see in the place of my book by him cited I there blame him for not distinguishing their estate when they were one and when they were rent asunder And though I pass from one to an other as I was led by answering him yet confound I them not But here he dealeth as in the former point answereth not my reasons wherby I convinced him of misapplying his diverse respects contrary to the words and meaning of the scriptures and to avoyd if he could his deserved blame checketh me but disproveth not what I wrote Let the reader compare what we both have sayd For the second I confess I did not so distinctly handle the state of Israel whiles they were in the land and after when they were put out as I should and would have doen had I fore-seen his pressing of every leight thing against me The reason hereof was that it skilleth not for the point in controversie to weet their Circumcision whether we respect them before they were cast out or after for they were not circumcised the second time in eyther estate And this mine opposite himself sheweth
11. 1. doth not he mean it of the men of the earth onely and not of beasts So in Exod. 19. 5. yee Israelites shal be a peculiar treasure unto me above all peoples for all the earth that is all peoples of the earth are mine Where God calleth all peoples his not onely by creation as the beasts were his but by covenant made with them in Noes time when he smelled the sweet savour of his sacrifice and promised no more to drown the world and blessed both Noe and his sonns and established his covenani with them and with their seed after them and gave them a sight of his covenant his bow in the clowd Gen 8. 20. 21. 9. 1. 9. 12. 13. which covenant though the natural benefit of it extended to the beasts as the beasts also had natural refreshing by that water out of the Rock which to the Israelites was a sacrament of Christ Numb 20 8 1 or 10. 4. yet unto men and to men onely it was a spiritual covenant of grace by Christ as appeareth by Esa. 54. 8. 9. 10. Rev. 4. 3. and 10 1. 1 Pet. 3. 20. 21. Now the covenant of grace thus established with Noe his sonns and their seed after them was respected of God in Exod 19. 5. when for the Apostasie of Noes seed he of his love made Israel his peculiar above all other peoples though some of the Nations were as in charitie I judge from Iobs historie Gods true churches stil and in the worst of the nations as the cursed Canaanites he had many of his elect as he hath now in the church of Rome which the examples of Rahab the harlot the Gibeonites or Nethinims Vriah the Hittite Aravnath the Iebusite and many other throughout the scriptures doe confirme All men as th'Apostle teacheth from the heathens confession are Gods ofspring or generation Act. 17. 28. 29. The Gentile as the parable shewerh in Luke 15 was brother to the Iew and God is the God not of the Iewes onely but also of the Gentiles Rom. 3. 29. and if the uncircumcised Gentile kept the righteousnes of the Law his uncircumcision was counted for circumcision for there is no respect of persons with God Rom. 2. 10. 11. 26. Act. 10. 34. 35. And as Paul reasoneth Hath God cast away his people Israel Far be it for J also am an Israelite c God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew Rom. 11. 1. 2. So I reason Did God cast away his peoples of the seed of Noes sonns Far be it For Rahab was a Canaanite Aravnah a Iebusite Vriah an Hittite Ebedmelech an Ethiopian Iether an Ismaelite and thousands of these and the other nations which were Gods people whom he foreknew and saved of his grace in Christ. They which can not answer these things but by instancing beasts doe want the wisdom which men of God should have With like successe in another place of his book he answereth touching the Gentiles For wheras I wrote The ordinanoes of God which they the Apostate Israelites in shew reteyned could not be unto them the figâ—es and seales of the forgivnes of synns and of life eternal and therfore were in their use of them false and deceytfull as were also the ordinances of God reteyned in other nations as * Altars Sacrifices Preists tithes first fruits incense meat-offrings drink-offrings feasts baptismes or washing â—â—byntings excommunications prayers vowes and many the like wherof all histories doe record that the Gentiles did reteyn them * Numb 23. 1. Pompon Laetus de Sacerd. Tâ—bull l. 1. eleg 10. l. 2. eleg 1. 2. Homer Odyss 3. Jliad 1. Uirgil Aen. 2. Caesar bell Gall. l. 6. He replieth All is to no purpose For if it be to shew that the Gentiles had Altars sacrifices priests c none doeth deny it But if it be to shew that these were the Lords ordinances given by him to these nations as circumcision was to Jsrael for confirmation of his covenant unto them or that circumcision in Israel was no more a signe and seale of Gods covenant and consequently of forgivenes of synns and life eternal then those were among the heathens c then all may see that this scripture is also perverted and that neyther it nor all the writers in the world prove any such matter c. Answ. It is easy to say the scripture is perverted and shew no reason how I have before proved from the historie of Noe God covenant of grace with his seed after him and from the historie of Iob that all nations had not onely Altars sacrifices Preists c but had them also as the Lords ordinances given them for confirmation of his covenant of forgivenes of synns in Christ to come Whence did Cain and Abel Noe Abram Iakob and Iob learn to offer first fruits and beasts build altars pay tithes make vowes c but from divine institution taught their fathers from God and by the fathers to the children Otherweise they could not have doen them in faith as of some of them th'Apostle testifieth they did Heb. 11. which teacheth us so to judge of the rest And if all other nations had kept the faith as did Iob their sacrifices had been the seales of forgivenes of synns unto them as they were unto Iob. When they lost their faith their sacrifices were vaine and no seale of grace unto them Now compare Israel in their Apostasie they made new Temples new Altars new Priests new feasts and signes which were not onely none of Gods ordinances but expresly forbidden them by his written Law Exod. 20. 4. 5. so that they were so farre from having their sacrifices seales of forgivenes of synns unto them as they were reputed for bloud unto them and they were by the doom of his Law to be cut off for offring them Levit. 17. 4. Thus having no word of promise they neither did nor could sacrifice of faith but their sacrifices were abominable as the sacrifices of the heathens and they sacrificed to divils not to God as Moses and the prophets testifie Deut. 32. 17. 2. Chron. 11. 15. Now for Circumcision first it was not commanded to the Gentiles neither was it a seale of the covenant of grace to Noe and his seed but was first commanded to Abraham and his seed and houshold Gen 17. and so to Israel and such as would be of that Church and partake of their passover Levit. 12. Exod. 12. 44. 48. Wherefore it being not commanded to Noes sonns such of them as were scatered farr off and heard not of the precept to Abraham were doubtlesse in the covenant of gracefull if they abode in Noes faith and were saved without circumcision as well as we at this day Who doubteth of the salvation of the Patriarchs Sem and Heber who both of them lived till after the ordinance of circumcision yet is there no record that they were circumcised Yea all the Israelites that were born for the space
answereth Not Rome but the Church and not this Church but that which then was neerer the Apostles times which cleaved to the truth and simplicitie of Christ. The disputer would deceive ex elenchi ignoratione Into the same fall acie doth mine opposite often run in his dispute against me and is therefore reproved by Mr. Iunius himselfe To the objection of Gods calling in the Church of Rome barely affirmed without proof I shewed from 2. Thes. 2. that the man of syn sitteth there calling all to worship him c. and from Rev. 18. 4. that God calleth out of her such as shal bee saved And from Rev. 9. that their Bishops the ordinary meanes of calling are fallen from heaven and have the key of the bottomless pit c. which Mr. Iunius himselfe hath applied to the popish hierarchie Mine opposite replieth that I had not what to answer but boldly deny that God is there calling as in his Church c. In sted of disproving hee falleth to his wonted questioning how then there can be salvation to any in that church c. Answ. It is a wearines to answer his often demands Salvation by sundry meanes cometh to Gods elect in all false churches and in the world How came Rahab to faith among the Canaanites Heb. 11. 31. Iam. 2. 25. and other Gods chosen among the heathens It is one thing for God to call by extraordinarie means another thing for him to call as in his church by his ordinary ministerie which is the thing that I deny in Rome and they prove it not there The distinction between the papacie and the church of Rome that is the pastors and the flock of that church is of no weight to prove the difference pretended unlesse they were of divers faiths and religions But when the priests teach lies idolatries and heresies and the people beleeve worship and obey them as they doe in Rome they both perish together as the scriptures witnes 2. Thess. 2. Rev. 14. 9. 10. 11. Touching the order or rank of Apostates to omit his trifling about his own translation of the word he sayth Mr. Junius speaks this not of the whole Church but onely of the papal hierarchie Be it so but what proof is brought for that he sayth It is knowen to all that have understanding of their estate that the church and people of Rome are apostate from the faith and service of Christ as are their priests and hierarchie What shall I need to bring proofes Mr. Iohnson himselfe here confesseth and prayeth all to take knowledge of it that the Church of Rome is fallen into most sinful and deep defection and Apostasie and so is a notorious harlot and idolatress If Mr. Iunius say otherweise and will have the Apostasie to be in the Hierarchie onely not in the church let them first agree between themselves before they trouble others with their contrary pleas Or let a third be umpier beeween them Mr. Cartwright who in his second Replie to D. Whitgift pag. 245. sayth J would gladly learn where the Lord hath willed us so to cast away the use of our iudgement that when men make open profession that they are members of the Pope which is Antichrist yet we must account of them as of members of Christ. Or how this is to iudge wisely Ioh. 7. 14. Wheras Mr. Iunius made the papacie or papal hierarchie to be an accident growing to the Church apoyson in the church a pestilence a dropsie a gangrene in the body I shewed these inconveniences upon their own grant If the hierarchie be no part of the body but an accident a poyson a gangrene c. what shal we think of al the actions of that hierarchy their ministration of sacramēts making of ministers whole church administration They cānot possibly be the actions of the body of the church neither of Christ c. And now what is become of their true baptisme and ordination of ministers And how doth God cal in that Church as before they reasoned c. Here mine opposite chargeth me with trifling and cavilling c. as if similitudes should hold in all things Answ. A similitude must hold in some things and in that for which it is alleaged else it is vaine to prove the hierarchie none of the Church this instance is brought the pestilence dropsie gangrene is none of the body but an accident To disprove this I shew that such accidents can doe no natural functions of the body but the hierarchie doe the naturall functions of the body of the church of Rome in teaching ministring the sacraments c. therefore they are not accidents but true members yea the chiefe of that Church Object The Apostate Jewes are compared to brass and iron Jer. 6. 28. Ezek. 22. 18. Shal we now conclude against Iudah to make a nullity of all the actions ministration and Churches estate Answ. It is a living body that doth actions and not mettall if a similie bee given of a living body and of a gangrene or scab that consumes the life of that body all in reason will see that the body doth actions the scab or gangrene doth none But in a similitude from metall there is no reason to speak of actions But thus the whole company is compared to a lump of metall the godly are as pure silver Psal. 66. 10. the wicked are as dross Psalm 119. 119. the fire of Gods word and tribulation trieth them 1. Pet. 1 6. 7. The Finer reserveth the pure metall but consumeth or casteth away the drosse thus God threatneth to doe with the Iewes Ezek. 22. 18. 22. Here to bring in actions of a living body is quite from the purpose but in the other similie not Here I would say of drosse can be no vessell for the Finer or of brass yron and reprobate silver the Lord maketh no choyce for vessels in his sanctuary Of like sort are his other wrested similitudes of trees corne seed c. all which must bee fitted to their proper natures But vvhat answer giveth he to the poynt it self First he breaketh out into his charitable termes saying Could any Anabaptist write more Anabaptistically then thus c. And after sundry reproches he replieth in Mr. Iunius name and to my question Can a scab or gangrene perform any action of a natural body or member hee giveth no answer but asketh againe Can a body that hath a scab or gangrene performe no actions of a natural body I answer yes it can And vvhat now will it help his cause For though the body can doe the naturall actions of it yet it is not possible for the scab or gangrene to doe them Either therefore the Pope and his hierarchie must be other then accidents gangrenes poyson dropsie c. in the church of Rome as in deed they are the chiefe members of that Whore or else they can performe no ecclesiasticall action As for his usuall refuge when all other faile the
and people so doth the Antichristian of Antichrist his ministers and people This Beast hath seven heads and ten hornes Rev. 17. 3. the ten hornes are sayd to be ten Kings v. â—2 as in Dan. 7. 24. the ten hornes out of that kingdom are ten kings these kings are none of the hierarchy wherefore the whole body of this beast conteineth more then the Pope and his hierarchy The Lamb against whom the Beast with his hornes fighteth Rev. 17. 14. Mr. Iunius expoundeth to be Christ and his Church why may not we by like reason expound the Beast to bee Antichrist and his Church Finally the Beast sayth Mr. Iunius * himselfe is the Romane Empire made long agoe of civill Ecclesiastical the chief head whereof hee maketh the Pope to beâ— And the Beast of Rome sayth he of a civil Empire is made an ecclesiastical Hierarchie The Whore he expoundeth to be the spiritual Babylon which is Rome so then by mine opposites plea neither did Mr. Iunius say neither ever entred into his thought that the ecclesiastical Roman Empire since the Pope was head of it or the hierarchy was ever married unto Christ. As for the Whore the Church which rideth this Beast he calleth it the False-Christian Church over which Antichrist ruleth and Antichrists Church which title mine opposite will not beare at my hand and that Antichristian Church which the Angel biddeth cast out and measure it not in Rev. 11. 12. Mr. Iunius explaineth thus As if he should say it belongeth nothing to thee to judge those which are without 1. Cor. 5. 12. which be innumerable look unto those of the houshold onely or unto the house of the living God Notwithstanding all this Mr. Iohnson would needs measure it for the true Church House and Temple of God so well doe Mr. Iunius and he accord together To a testimony which I alleaged out of D. Fulk concerning the miserable blindnesse of people in Popery of which mine opposite sayth he might have been better aduised hee to requiâ—e me as he thinketh alleageth a speech of Mr. Broughtons who sayth Millions of millions of Romes clients are saved Brought on Rev. 13. 18. p. 203. Answ. Would he be content that Mr. Broughton should decide our controversie touching the Church of Rome Thus then sayth that author in the same book The Popes clients are the taile of the great Dragon Thence from Rome was the Rebellion to arise Man of syn Apollyon c. to set up or depose states and to have a people of his own frame and to burne the true Temple of God The Popes power driveth the Church not to be seen for certaine hundreds of yeares The Pope wresteth al that is spoken of the true Church into protection for his synagogue of Satan Rome passeth al the enemies of the Church in cruelty and idolatry Pharaoh and Nebuchadnezar were never so hardened The prophane Caesars did not so strictly hinder all use of Religion Rome hath farr passed the old Babel in idolatry The Pope followeth al heathen superstition in name staffe apparel of Caesars and Temples setting but a face of Christianity upon them All their doctrine is such that their Temples Masse and dayly profession in al things is from the unclean spirit and their whole policie is a lye The Beast which is ascended out of Abyssos that is al his eorporations millions of millions alpapists goe from their Abyssos of black ignorance unto Abyssos Luk. 8. whither the Divils shal come in their time to be tormented for ever ever These sundry the like coÌ„mendations doth the author alleaged give of the church of Rome which mine opposite pleadeth for and taking hold of a phrase wresteth it for his purpose from the mans meaning who seemeth not to speak of the popish church but of the ancient Christian for these are there Mr. Broughtons words And for Julius the captaine who was so careful for S. Paul that for his sake the liâ—e of the prisoners were spared Act. 27. God would not record this but to save millions of millions of Romes clients for S. Paul but for the unthankeful to S. Paul and forgers that Peter was at Rome who never came neere it he stil reserved Pilats holiness that Popes selfe-murder should be the reward Was not here a testimony well alleaged So in other places of his book he quoteth Mr. Brightman and others whose writings directly cross that which he pleadeth for in many things as they that read the authors may see and anone I will set downe their sayings No marvell then if hee wrest my words as where next he sayth that that which the Apostle speaketh of the Man of sin and of them that perish because they receive not the love of the truth c. 2. Thess. 2. 9. J apply for exclusion from pardon and certain condemnation to the whole Church of Rome and so to all the members thereof and that for all ages that either have been are or shal be ever since the Man of syn was seated there Answ. I sayd no more but thus God if it were granted that he is the husband of this whore hath promised her no pardon but delivered her to Satan to be seduced deluded damned 2. Thes. 2. 9. 11. 12. I speak not here of those in Rome that have withstood her whoordoms which have been many nor of those to whom at last God hath given repentance unto life which I hope are moe nor of other his elect but of the whore in generall whose damnation is shewed in Rev. 17. and 18. yea th'Apostle speaketh more particularly That they all might be damned who beleeve not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness Behold how hee sayth they all which some evill minded man might urge against the Apostle as mine opposite doth against me But wise men know that the promises of life to the true Church pertain not to the reprobates that are in it so the threatnings of death to the false Church take not hold on Gods elect which are therein Object Jf this harlot the Church of Rome was never Christs spouse otherwise then all the world was by our first parents Adam and Noe how then hath she broken the covenant of wedlock if she never were in it how can she be called a whore in respect of Christ any more then the heathens that never knew God in Christ How can she be sayd to be in Apostasie c. Answ. Of the state of the Gentiles I have spoken before and proved them to have been all in the covenant of grace in Christ from Gen. 9. 9. c. But they generally fell from God to idolatry which is whoredom and apostasie and were in time rejected of God who renewed his covenant with one small nation of the Iewes and yet saved his elect among the Gentiles also So the Christian Churches planted by the Apostles soon fell from
hee pleaded against the Pope and his Hierarchy that they they onely are the Man of syn the son of perdition the Beast the Antichrist and why wondred he so at me when I called for proofe that Christ was maried to that Beast seeing he hath the same baptisme the same Lords Supper the same beleef touching the Articles of faith that the people of his church have But their counterfeit profession of Christ is before discovered And they that baptize which are the Hierarchy he confesseth to be the Man of syn the Antichrist they are none of the church as we have heard but ulcers gangrenes c. what now have such to doe with the name of the Lord or administration of the seales of his covenant And compare with this that which himself sayth in the 3. page of his book that the action of baptisme is wholly enjoyned and layd upon the baptiser and not upon the baptised If this be so where hath God layd the action of baptizing upon Antichrist the Man of syn and if God hath not layd it upon him how can hee truely doe it in Gods name How will they prove sayth he that it is a lying signe unto them in their estate seeing baptisme as the other sacraments in Israel and under the Gospel hath this in it to be a signe by the ordinance of God not at the pleasure of man And God is the God of truth and appoynteth no lying signes but true Neither can mans iniquity make Gods signes to be lying signes Synful therfore and erroneous it is so to think if not also blasphemous so to speak Answ. And was it synfull and erroneous thinketh he in Paul when he sayd They changed the truth of God into a lye Rom. 1. 25. For if mans iniquity cannot change Gods signes into lying signes how should it change the truth of God into a lye And how could Ieremie have proved unto the Iewes if mine opposite had then lived to plead for them that those were lying words when they sayd The Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord c. Ier. 7. 4. for had they not in deed the Temple of the Lord his true ordinance and signe whereof they spake The word of God is truth Ioh. 17. 17. How then should mans iniquity make Gods truth to be a lye unto themselues though they pervert the word unto all manner false-doctrine errour and heresie Idols are lies Esa. 44. 20. Ier. 16. 19. 20. How can the Pope make an idoll of the bread in the sacrament though he fall downe and worship it and beleeve it is his maker seeing as it is bread it is a true thing and Gods good creature as it is sacramentall bread it is a true signe by the ordinance of God who appoynteth no lying signes Is it not blasphemous now and would he not rend his clothes as did Caiaphas if he should heare one call the Popes sacrament of the altar an idol or a lying signe unto him in that estate But to conclude The sacraments are in deed signes by the ordinance of God not at mans will Gods ordinance maketh them signes of grace to the faithful receivers onely 1. Cor. 11. 20. 29. Rom. 2. 25 Act. 8. 36. 37. If infidels and Antichrists falsly challenge and usurp Gods signes and abuse them to open idolatry and their own perdition they change the truth of Gods ordinance into a lye unto themselves and whiles they vainly think to have forgivenesse of synns by them they add syn unto syn and receive their own damnation Whereas I had set downe two reasons to prove the Popish baptisme false and a lying signe unto them mine opposite passeth them over as too heavy for him and cometh to set downe differences between Gods ordinances and mens corruptions Gods signes and mens errours Mariage meates and drinks and the abuses of these the scriptures and the errors gathered from them the Sun Moon and Starrs as they are creatures and as they are made idols and worshiped of men c. Wherein he laboureth to prove the thing which we hold and doth most injuriously intimate against us as if we thought the contrary Should we be so wicked as to imagine the ordinances of God or his creatures to be evill in themselves Farr be it from us Nay we say that the papists for abusing the sacraments and turning them to lyes and idols shall have the greater judgement not for abusing bread and wine and water as they are creatures onely but for abusing them as they are sacramentall signes ordeyned of Christ which maketh their profanation more horrible their damnation more just But this is a practise of many that plead for errour to leave the arguments which doe convince them and to propone new questions and reasons of their owne that they may seeme to say something by multitude of words So when I shewed the example of the idolatrous Israelites that repenting and forsaking their false Synagogues lying signes in them usurped they needed not a new outward cutting or circumcising as is shewed at large in our former writings Discovery p. 116. 120. Apolog. p. 110. 113. He passeth over the reasons manifested in those books as if he had never seen them when as the one was most of it penned by himself And now he pleadeth Wheras they say that circumcision was also a lying signe and false sacrament to Jsrael in their defection how doe they prove it where doth the Scripture teach it will they have us take it on their bare word and beleeve that their saying are Oracles c. Answ. He might have seen reasons in the books before cited besides those that I have set down But thus in seeking to wound us he hath smitten through his own sides as if himselfe when he wrote those things in our Apologie would have had men beleeve his bare word and that his sayings were Oracles Whereas if ever hee wrote soundly in his life he did it in that Apologie as all men of good judgement may perceive Further now to answer him I say that I spake of their lying signes which implyed their Passover and sacrifices as well as their circumcision And those being so profaned as for them they were by Gods Law to bee cut off as murderers Levit. 17. as sacrificers to Divils not to God Deut. 32. 17. 2. Chron. 11. 15. 15. 3. were they then true signes unto them of Gods grace and fauour and forgivenesse of their synns in Christ The Scripture teacheth they could not be partakers of the Lords table and of the table of Divils 1. Cor. 10 21. In particular for their circumcision I proved it thus True circumcision was the seale of the righteousness of saith Rom. 4. 11. Jsrael in their apostasie were fallen from the faith Hos. 11. 12. they were without the true God without Priest to teach without Law 2. Chron. 15. 3. and how then could they have the true circumcision the seale of
a good creature of God also idolatrously abused The bread in the sacrament is in deed an idoll to Papists that worship it as their maker yet is it also in it selfe Gods ordinance idolatrously abused so is popish baptisme Hee might even as wel say that Reubens fact in lying with his fathers concubine was not in deed adultery but an abuse of Gods ordinance of mariage or a defiling of his fathers bed Gen. 35. 22. 49. 4. 5. Moreover the brazen Serpent was but a temporary ordinance c. Ans. This was the twelft of his shifts before now hee repeateth and multiplieth it among his Errours I refer the reader to my former answer 6 That the Romish baptisme is an impure idol in their abuse standing up in the place of Christ and his precious blood which it is not pretending to give grace c. which it doth not But the baptisme in the church of Rome is Gods ordinance had and planted there by the Apostles c. These are the errours and abuses of men about it not the nature of the baptisme it selfe Otherweise all that have received it ought to renounce it utterly and to get an other outward baptisme c. Answ. This also was before objected and answered and it is a world to see how he wearieth his reader with repeating worthlesse reasons Sacrificing among the heathens I have before proved was Gods ordinance So was the Lords supper in the church of Rome in the Apostles time so was excommunication so was the Ministery of Bishops c. These have been continued in Rome with their baptisme may we not say therefore the Masse is an idoll or that the Bishop the Pope of Rome now is an idol and Antichrist Of our getting an other baptisme which is the usuall foot and base of his arguments we have before spoken that which he could not take away Obj. Wil these men say that we can without sin reteine any thing and not utterly reject it that standeth up in the place of Christs precious blood c. Ans. We cannot indeed without syn reteyne it while so it standeth neither doe we so reteyn it far be it from us Neither might the Gentiles reteyn the lye which they had made of the truth of God Rom. 1. 25. But when the lye was doen away and God restored to them his former trueth that they were to reteyn The idolatrous Israelites if they had set up their own blood of circumcision in place of Christs blood might not without syn have reteyned it whiles so it stood Yet repenting of their idolatry they might keep the outward signe without repeating it even so we in this case Obj. Errors and abuses of men may hurt themselves but cannot change the nature of Gods ordinance in it selfe Answ. Not in it selfe I grant considered without their abuse but togither with their abuse Gods ordinance of sacrifice incense c. is an abomination to him Prov. 15. 8. Esa. 1. 13. So baptisme and the Supper now in Rom are abominations to the Lord. Obj. Mans unbeleefe cannot make the faith of God of none effect God is true though every man be a lyar Rom. 3. 3. 4. Ans. What may we think would he conclude from this Scripture To cite a place and leave it doubtfull what hee inferreth is to deceive the reader If he intend according to the question in hand that the sacraments are seales of grace and of salvation unto men whether they beleeve or doe not beleeve it is a notable errour overthrowing the Gospel and establishing the popish herefie of grace ex opere operato by the work doen. The Scriptures teach touching Gods vvord and promise that it profiteth not them that heare it if it be not mixed vvith faith in them Heb. 4. 2. if men beleeve not they shall not be established Esai 7. 9. but shall be damned Mark 16. 16. they shall not see life but the wrath of God abideth on them Ioh. 3. 36. Neither is the faith of God by mens unbeleef made without effect For his truth and faithfulnesse is confirmed as well in damning unrepentant unbeleeving synners as in saving those that repent and beleeve When the righteous turneth from his righteousnes and committeth iniquitie he shall dye in his iniquity and yet the way of the Lord is equall as sayth the prophet Ezek. 18. 24. 25. 26. Again as all men naturally are lyars and doe faile and break covenant on their part by syn which God never doeth so if they continue in syn and turne not to the Lord by repentance and faith they all perish Luk. 13. 3. 5. Rom. 8. 6. 10. 1. Cor. 6. 9. 10. Jude v. 5. But let men repent and turn from their transgressions so iniquity shall not be their ruine Ezek. 18. 30. Otherweise it would follow that after men are entred into covenant with God are baptized though they fall frō Christ to Antichrist as the church of Rome hath doen though they fall to Mahomet as many East churches have doen though they turne to be Iewes or pagans and so dye yet they shall be saved for their unbeleef cannot make the faith of God of none effect But so to expound this Scripture Rom. 3. were to turn judgement into wormwood unto the destruction of mens soules And if mine opposite would not gather some such thing from it what will it help his plea for the baptisme of the church of Rome which is the whore of Babylon whom God hath devoted unto destruction except they repent Rev. 17. 18. chap. Obj. The Jewes in Christs time and before holding justification by circumcision workes of the Law set these up in the place of Christ his precious blood c. Should we therfore say that circumcision was then an impure idoll in their abuse c. Or should wee not rather learn to put difference between Gods ordinance in it selfe and between mans abuse thereof c. Ans. Whensoever Iew or Gentile held justification by circumcision sacrifice or works of the Law they made their sacraments sacrifices and workes idols impure idols to themselves in their abuse And it is admirable that men teaching religion should bee ignorant that whatsoever creature or work of man is put in the place of God and Christ it is therby made an idol though Gods ordinances and the workes of his Law in themselves are alwayes good but turned to idols are alwayes evill and an abomination to the Lord as is before proved What mouth can deny but the Papists are idolaters in praying to Saints and Angels If idolaters then they serve idols if they serve idols in so praying then the Saincts and Angels are idols to them in their synfull abuse Yet who knoweth not that the Saincts and Angels in heaven are blessed and holy and not Idols in themselves But this is mine opposites continual fallacie wherby he would deceive his reader that because Baptisme and the Lords supper are Gods holy ordinances in themselves therfore