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A07696 A dialoge of comfort against tribulacion, made by Syr Thomas More Knyght, and set foorth by the name of an Hu[n]garie[n], not before this time imprinted More, Thomas, Sir, Saint, 1478-1535. 1553 (1553) STC 18082; ESTC S112882 216,983 350

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receyuyng the impressyon of affeccions is common vnto menne and beastes Another maner of receiuing affeccions is by the meane of reason which● both ordinately tempereth those affeccions that the bodely .v. wittes imprint and also dysposeth a man many tymes to some spiritual vertues very contrarye to those affeccions that are fleshly and sēsual And those reasonable disposicions been affeccions spirituall and proper to the nature of man and aboue the nature of beastes Now as our gostly enemy the deuil enforceth hymselfe to make vs leane to the sensuall affeccions and beastly so doth almightye God of hys goodnes by hys holye spirite inspire vs good mocions with ayde and helpe of hys grace towarde the tother affeccions spirituall and by soondrye meanes instructeth oure reason to leane vnto them and not onelye to receyue them as engendred and planted in our soule but also in suche wyse water them with wyse aduertisement of godly counsayle and continuall prayer that they maye be habitually radycate surely take depe roote therein and after as the tone kynde of affeccion or the tother beareth the strength in our heart so be we stronger or febler agaynst the terror of death in thys cause And therefore will we Cosin assaye to consider what thinges there are for which we haue cause in reason● to master that affeccion fearefull and sensuall● and thoughe we cannot cleane auoide it and put it away● yet in such wyse to bridle it at the leaste● that it ●un●● not out so farre like ●n head stronge horse● that spite of oure ●eeth it carye vs out vnto the deuill Lette vs therfore now consider and waie wel thys thyng that we dreade ●o sore that is to witte shamefull and painfull death ¶ The .xxii. Chapter Of death considered by himselfe alone as a bare leauing of this lyfe onely ANd firste I perceyue well by these two thinges that you ioyne vnto death that is to witte shameful and painful You would esteme death so much the lesse if he should come alone without eyther shame or pain Vincent Without doubte vncle a greate deale the lesse but yet though he should come without thē●oth by hymselfe whatsoeuer I would I wete wel many a man would be for all that very loth to dye Antony That I beleue wel Cosin and the more pitie it is for that affeccion happeth in very fewe but that eyther the cause is lacke of faith● lacke of hope or finally lacke of witte They that beleue not the lyfe to come after thys and wēne themselfe here in welth are loth to leaue this for than they thynke they lese all and therof cometh the manifold foolishe vnfaithfull wordes which are● so rise in ouer many mennes mouthes this world we know and the other we know not and that some say in sporte and thinke● in earnest the deuil is not so blacke as he is painted and let him be as blacke as he wil he is no blacker than a crowe with many suche other foolishe fantasies of thesame sort some that beleue wel inough yet thorow the leudenes of liuing fal out of good hope of saluaciō and thā though they be loth to dye I very litle meruayle howbeit some that purpose to mend and would fayne haue some tyme left the lenger to bestowe some what better maye peraduenture be loth to die also by by and that maner lothenesse albeit a very good wyl gladlye to die and to be with god were in mi mind so thankful that it were wel able to purchase as ful remissiō both of sinne and pain as peraduenture he were like if he liued to purchase in many yeres penaunce yet will I not say but that suche kinde of lothenes to die may be before god alowable Some are there also that are loth to die that are yet very glad to dye and long for to be dead ¶ Vincent That were vncle a very straunge case Antony The case I feare me Cosin falleth not oftē but yet sometyme it doeth as where there is any man of that good minde that S. Paul was which for the longing that he had to be with god woulde fayne haue been dead but for the profit of other folke was content to liue here in payn differre and forbeare for the while his inestimable blisse in heauen Cupio dissolui esse cum christo bonum autem mihi manere propter vos but of all these kyndes of folkes Cosin that are loth to dye except the first kind onely that lacketh fayth there is I suppose none but that except the feare of shame or sharpe paine ioyned vnto death shoulde be the let woulde els for the bare respect of death alone let to departe hence with good wil in this case of fayth well witting by his fayth that his death taken for the fayth shoulde clense him cleane of al his sinnes and sende hym straight to heauen And some of those namely the laste kynde are suche that shame and payn both ioyned vnto death were vnlikely to make them loth death or feare death so sore but that they woulde suffre death in thys case wi●h good wyll sith they knowe well that the refusing of the fayth for any cause in thys worlde were the cause neuer so good in sighte shoulde yet seuer them from god wi●h whō saue for other folkes profit they so faine would be And charitie can it not b● for the profite of the whole worlde deadly to displease him that made it Some are there I saye also that are loth to dye for lacke of witte whiche albeit that they bel●ue the worlde that is to come and hope also to come thyther yet they loue so mu●he the wealth of thys worlde and suche thynges as delight them therin that they would fayne kepe them as long as euer they mighte euen with tooth and nayle And when they maye be suffered in no wyse to kepe it no lenger● but that death taketh them ●heref●o than if it maye be no better they will agree to be as soone as they be hence hawsed vp into heauen and bee with GOD by and by These folke as verye nedyote fooles as he that had kepte from hys chyldehodde a bagge full of chery s●ones and cas●e suche a fantasye thereto that he woulde not goe from it for a bygger bagge fylled full of golde These folkes fare Cosin● as Esope telle●h in a fable that the snayle did for when Iupiter whom the Poetes fayne for the greate God inuited al the poore wormes of thea●th vnto a greate solemne feaste that it pleased hym I haue forgotten vpon what occasion vpon a tyme to prepare for them the snaile kept her at home woulde not come therat And when Iupiter asked her after wher●ore she came not at his feast where he sayd she shoulde haue bene welcome and haue faren well and should haue seen a goodly palace and been delighted with many goodly pleasures she aunswered him that she lo●ed no place so wel as her own house
he in a sore tribulacion a verye peryllous for than were it a tokē that the deuil had eyther by bringing hym into some great sinne broughte him into dispayre or peraduenture his reuelaciōs foundē false reproued or by some secret sinne of his diuulged and deprehended cast him both in dispayre of heauen thorowe feare and in a wearines of this life for shame sith he seeth his estimaciō lost amōg other folke of whose praise he was wont to be proude therefore Cosin in such case as thys is the man is to be fayre handled and swetely and wyth dowce and tender louing wordes to be put in good courage comforted in al that mē godly may And here must they put hym in mynde that if he dyspayre not but pull vp his courage and trust in goddes great mercye he shall haue in conclusion great cause to be glad of this fal for before he stoode in greater perill then he was ware of while he tooke him selfe for better thā he was and god for ●auour that he bare him hath suffered hym to fall depe into the Deuills ●aunger to make hym therby knowe what he was while he tooke him selfe for so sure and therfore as he suffered hym than to fall for a remedye against ouer boulde pride so wyl god nowe if the man meken hym selfe● not wyth vnfrutefull dyspayre but with frutefull penaūce so set him vp againe vpō his fete so strengthen hym wyth his grace that for this one fal that the deuill hath geuen him he shal geue the deuil an hundreth And here must he be put in remembraunce of Marye Magdalene of the prophet Dauid and specyally of Saint Peter whose high bolde courage tooke a foule fall and yet because he dispayred not of gods mercye but wept and called vpon it howe highly God tooke him into his fauour again in his holy scripture is wel testified wel through christēdome knowē now shal it be charitably done if some good verteous folke suche as him selfe somewhat estemeth and hath afore longed to stande in estimacion wyth doe resorte some tyme vnto hym not onelye to geue hym counsayle But also to aske aduise and counsayle of him in some cases of their owne conscience● to let him thereby perceiue that they no lesse esteme him nowe but rather more than they dyd before sith they thinke him nowe by this fal better expert of the deuilles craft and therby not onely better instructed him self but also better able to geue good counsaile and aduise to other This thing wyll in my minde wel amende and lifte vp hys courage from the perel of that desperate shame ☞ Vincent Me thinketh vncle that thys were a perilous thing For it may peraduenture make him sette the lesse by his fall and therby cast hym into his fyrste pride or into hys other sinne againe the falling wherunto draue him into this dispayre ☞ Antony I doe not meane Cosin that euerye foole should at aduenture fall in hand wyth him for so loe might it happe for to doe harme in dede But Cosin if a cunning Phisicion haue a man in hand he can wel disserne whan and howe longe some medicine is necessarye whych at an other tyme mynistred or at that tyme ouerlonge continued might put the pacyent in peryl for if he haue his pacient in an agewe to the cure wherof he nedeth his medicines in theyr workīg cold yet if he happe ere that feuer be full cured to fall into some such other dysease as except it were holpen with hote medicines were lykely to kyll the bodye before the feuer coulde be cured he woulde for the while haue his most care to the cure of that thing wherin were most present peril whan that were once out of ieopardye doe than the more except diligence after about the farther cure of the feuer And likewise if the ship were in perill to fall into Scilla the feare of falling into Charibdys on the other side shall neuer let any wyse mayster therof to drawe him frō Scilla towarde Charibdys first of al in al that euer he may But when he hath hym once so farre frō Scylla that he seeth him selfe out of that daunger thē wil he begin to take hede to kepe him wel frō the other likewise whē this mā is falling downe to dyspayre to the final distrucciō of hym selfe a good wise spiritual leache wil first looke vnto that by good comfort lifte vp his courage when he seeth that perill wel past care for the cure of his other faultes after howbeit euen in the geuing of his cōfort he may find waies inough in such wise to tēpre his wordes that the mā may take occasiō of good courage yet farre from occasiō geuing of more recidiuaciō into his former sinne sith the great part of his coūsaile shal be to courage him to amēdmēt that is pardy farre frō falling to sin again ☞ Vincent I thinke Uncle that folke fall into this vngracious minde throwe the deuilles temptaciō by many moe meanes than one Antony That is Cosin very true for the deuill taketh his occasions as he seeth them fal meete for him Some he stirreth to it through werynes of them selfe after some great losse some for feare of bodely harme and some as I saide for feare of worldly shame One wyst I my selfe which had beene longe reputed for an honest man which was fallen in such a fantasye that he was welnere worne awaye therwith but what he was tempted to doe that would he tel no man but he told vnto me that he was sore combred that it alway ran in his mind that folkes fātasies were fallen frō him and that they estemed not his wit as they were wont to doe but euer his mynde gaue him that the people begā to take him for a foole folke of trouth did no thing so at all but reputed him both for wise and honest Two other knewe I that were marueilouslye afrayde that they should kyll them selfe coulde tel me no cause wherfore they so feared it but onely that theyr owne mynd so gaue them neyther losse had they anye● nor no such thing toward them nor none occasion of any worldely shame the one in bodye very well liking and lussy wonderous wearye were they bothe twayne of that mynde and alwaye they thought that doe it they woulde not for no thing but neuerthelesse they euer feared they shoulde and wherefore they so both feared neyther of them both could tell the one le●t he shoulde doe it desyred is frendes to binde him ¶ Vincent This is vncle a meruelouse straūge maner ☞ Antony Forsoth Cosin I suppose that many of thē are in this case the deuill as I sayde before seketh his occasions For as S. Peter sayth Diabolus tanquam leo rugens circuit querens quem deuoret The deuil as a roaring Lyon goeth about seking whome he maye deu●ure He marketh well the state and the
venit ad me non odit patrem su●m matrem vxorem filios fratres sorores ad huc autem animam suam nō potest es●e n●eus dicipulus He that cometh to me and hateth not his father hys mother his children and hys bre●hren and hys sisters yea and hys owne lyfe too can not be my dysciple Here meaneth our sauiour Christ that none can be hys disciple but if he loue him so farre aboue al his kinne aboue hys owne lyfe to y●●or the loue of hym rather than to forsake him he shal forsake them al so meaneth he by those other wordes that whosoeuer doe not so renounce forsake al that euer h● h●th in his owne heart and affeccion that he wil rather leese it al and let it goe euery whitte thā deadlye displease god with the reseruing of anye one part therof he can not be Christes dysciple sy●h Christe teache●h vs to loue God aboue all thing he loueth not God aboue all thing that contrary to gods pleasure kepeth any thing that he hath For y● thing he sheweth him selfe to set more by than by god whyle he is better cōtent to lese god than it But as I said to geue awaye al or that no mā should be riche or haue any substance that find I no cōmaūdement of There are as our sauiour saith in the house of his father many mansions happy shall he be that shall haue the grace to dwell euen in the lowest It semeth verily by the gospel that those which for gods sake suffer penury shal not onely dwel aboue those in heauen that liue here in plenty in earth but also the heauen in some maner of wise more properly belōgeth vnto thē is more specially prepared for thē thā it is for the riche by that that god in the gospell coūsayleth the riche folke to bye in a maner heauē of thē where he saieth vnto the riche mē Facite vobis amicos de Mammona iniquitatis vt cum defeceritis recipiant vos in eterna tabernacula Make you friendes of the wicked ryches that whan you fayle here they maye receiue you into euerlasting tabernacles But now although this be thus in respect of the riches and the pouertie compared together yet they being good mē both there maye be some other vertue beside wherin the riche mā may so peraduēture excel that he may be in heauen farre aboue that poore mā that was here in earth in other vertues farre vnder him as the profe appeareth clerely in Lazarus and Abraham ¶ The .xix. Chapter NOr I saye not this to the entent to comforte riche men in heaping vp of riches for a lytle comforte is bente inough thereto for them They be not so proude hearted and obstinate but that they would I wene to that counsayle be with right lytle exhortacion verye conformable But I say this for those good mē to whom god geueth substance and the minde to dispose it well yet not the minde to geue it all awaye at once but for good causes to kepe some substance still should not dispaire of goddes fauour for the not doing of the thing which god hath geuen them no commaundemēt of nor drawen by anye special calling therunto acheus loe that clymed vp into the tree for desier that he had to behold our sauiour at such time as Christ called aloude vnto him sayd zacheus make hast come downe for this daye must I dwel in thy house Zacheus was so glad therof so touched inwardly with special grace to the profite of his soule that whereas al the people murmured much that Christ would call him and be so familiar with hym as of his owne offre to come vnto his house considering that they knewe him for the chiefe of the Publicanes that wer customers or tolle gatherers of themperours dueties all which whole company were among the people sore infamed of rauine extorciō and bribery than zacheus not onely the chiefe of that felowship but also growen greatly riche wherby the people accoumpted him in theyr own opinion● for a man very sinneful and nought he forthwith by the instinct of the spirite of god in reproche of al such ●emerarious bold blynd iudgement geuen vpon a man whose inwarde mind and sodayn chaunge they cannot see shortly proued them all deceiued and that our lord had at those fewe woordes outwardly spokē to him so touched him that his grace so wrought in his heart within that whatsoeuer he was before he was than vnwares vnto them all sodaynly waxen good for he made haste came downe gladly receiued Christ and sayd Loe lord the one halfe of my goodes here I geue vnto poore people yet ouer that if I haue in any thing deceued any mā here am I ready to recompence him foure folde asmuche Vincent Thys was vncle a gracious hearyng but yet I marueile me sūwhat wherfore zacheus vsed his woordes in that maner of ordre For me thinketh he shoulde first haue spoken of making restitucion vnto those whom he had begyled and than speake of geuing his almose after For restitucion is you wote well duetye and a thing of such necessitie that in respect of restitucion almose dede is but voluntarye Therefore it might seme that to put men in mind of theyr duetie in making restitucion fyrst and doing theyr almose after● zacheus should haue sayd more conueniently if he had sayd fyrst that he woulde make euery man restitucion whom he had wronged than geue halfe in almose of that the remayned after for only that might he cal clerely his own ☞ Anthony This is true Cosin where a mā hath not ynough to su●fise for bothe but he that hath is not bound to leaue his almose vngeuen to the poore man that is at his hand and peraduenture calleth vpō him til he goe seke vp al his creditors and al those that he hath wronged so farre peraduenture asundre that leauing the one good dede vndone the while he may before they come together change that good mind again and dooe neither the one nor the other It is good alway therfore to be doing some good out of hand while we thynke thereon grace shall the better stande with vs and encrease also to goe the farther into the other after and this I aunswere if the man had there done the one out of hand the geuing I mean● half in almose not so muche as speake of restitucion till after where as nowe though he spake the one in ordre before the other and yet all at one time the thing remayned still in his libertie to put them both in execucion after such ordre as he should than thinke expedient But nowe Cosin did the spiri●e of god tempre the tongue of zacheus in the vtterau●ce of these wordes in suche wyse as it may wel a●peare the saying of the wyse man to be verifyed in them where he sayeth
to take it Now thē if reasō alone be sufficient to moue a mā to take pain for the gaining of some worldly rest or pleasure and for the auoiding of another pain thoughe perad●enture more yet i●durable but for a short season Why should not reason grounded vpon the sure foundacion of fayth and holpen also forward with ayde of Goddes grace as it is euer ready vndoubtedly whē folke for a good mynde in Gods name cōmen together theron our Sauiour saying himself Vbi sunt duo vel tres congregati in nomine meo ibi ego sum in medio-eorum ● where there are two or three gathered together in my name there am I also euē in the very middes of them why should not thā reasō I say thus forthered with faith grace be much more able to engendre in vs first such an affeccion and after by long and depe meditacion thereof so to cōtinue that affecciō that it shall turne into an habitual fast depe rooted purpose of paciēt suffering the painful death of thys body here in earth for that gayning of euerlasting welthy life in heauē and auoiding of euerlasting painfull death in hell Vincent By my trueth vncle word●s can I none fynde that should haue any reason with thē fayth al way presupposed as you protested in the beginning for a groūde wordes I say can I none find wherwith I might reasonably counterpleade this that you haue said here alreadi But yet I remēber that fable the E●ope telleth of a great olde hart that had fled frō a litle bitche whiche had made sute after hym and chased hym ●o long that she had lost him and as he hoped m●re thā half geuē him ouer by occasiō wherof hauing thā some time to talke meting with an other of his felowes he fel in deliberaciō with him what were best for him to doe whith●r to rūne on stil fly farther frō her or turne again fight with her wherunto the other hart aduised him to flye no farther lest that bitche might hap to find him agayn at such time as he should with the labour of hys farther flying be falen out of breath therby al out of ●●rēgth to so shoulde he be killed lying where he coulde not stire him where as if he would turne and fight he were in ●o ●erell at al. For the mā with whom she hunteth is more ●hen a mile behind her and she is but a litle body scant halfe so m●che as thou and thy hornes may thruste her thorowe before she c●n touche thy fleshe be ●ore then x● tymes her to the length nowe but by my truth ꝙ the other harte● I like your coūsaile wel me thinke that the thing is eu●n ●othely suche as you say but I feare me when I here once that ●rchin bitche barke I shal ●al to my fe●te and forgeat altogether But yet and you wil goe backe with me thā me thinke we shal be strōg inough against that one bitche betwene vs both wher vnto the other hart agreed so they both appointed them thereupon Here it must be knowen of some mā that can skill of hunting whither that we mistake not ●ure tearmes for than are we vtterly shamed ye wote well and I am so conning that I cannot tell whither among them a bitche be a bitche or no bat as I remember she is no bitche but ● brach● this is an high pointe in a lowe house beware of barkyng for there lacketh an other hun●ing terme at a foxe it is called crying I wote not what they call it at an hart but it shal make no matter of a farre But euē as they were about to buske thē forwarde to it the bitche had foūd the fote agayn on she came yerning towarde the place whom as soone as the hartes heard● they to goe both twayn a pace and in good fayth vncle euen so I feare me● it woulde fare by my selfe and many other too which though we thinke it reason that you saye and in our myndes agree that we should doe as you say yea doe paraduenture thinke also that we would in dede doe as you saye yet as soone as we should once he●● these hell houndes these Turkes come yelpyng and bauling vpon vs oure heartes shoulde soone fall as cleane from vs as those other hartes flye from the houndes ¶ Antony Cosin in those dayes ●hat Esope speaketh of thoughe those hartes and other brute beastes mo had if he saye soth the power to speake and talke and in their talking power to talke reason to yet to folow reason and rule themselfe thereby thereto had they neuer geuē them the power And in good faith Cosin as for suche thynges as pertayne toward the conducting of reasonable men to saluaciō I thinke withoute helpe of grace mēs reasoning shal doe litle more But ●han are we sure as I sayed afore that as for grace if we desier it God is at suche reasonyng alwaye present and very ready to geue it and but if that men wil afterwarde willingly caste it awaye he is euer styll as ready to kepe it from tyme to tyme glad to encrease it and therefore byddeth vs oure Lorde by the mouth of the Prophete that we shoulde not be lyke such brutyshe and vnreasonable beastes as were those hartes and as are horses and mules Nolite fieri sicut equus mulus in quibus non est intellectus Be not you like an horse a mule that hath no vnderstanding and therefore Cosin lette vs neuer dreade but that if we wil apply our myndes to the gathering of comfort and courage against such persecuciōs and heare reason and let it sinke into our hearte and cast it not out againe nor euen there choke it vp and stifle it with pampering in and stuffing vp oure stomakes with a surfite of worldly vanities god shall so well woorke there with● that we shall fynde great strength therein and not in suche wyse haue all suche shamefull cowardous heartes as to forsake our Sauioure and thereby lese oure owne saluacion and runne into eternal fyre for feare of death ioined therwith thoughe bitter and sharpe yet shorte for all that and in a maner a momentary paine Vincent Euery man vncle naturally grudgeth at payne and is very loth to come to it Antony That is very trueth nor no man biddeth any man to goe runne into it but that if he be taken maye not flee than we say that reason playnly telleth vs that we shoulde rather suffre and endure the lesse and the shorter here than in hell the sorer and so farre the lenger to Vincent I heard vncle of late where suche a reason was made as you make me now which reason semeth vndouted vneuitable vnto me yet heard I late as I say a man aunswere it thus he sayd that if a man in this persecucion should stand styll in the confession of hys fayth and therby fal into paynfull tormentory he might