our Sauiour to the Jewes Joan. 5.39 I answer first if they will haue their purpose they must add solas earch the Scriptures alone as Luther in the Text where it is sayd Rom. 3.28 We account a man to be justified by Faith without the works of the Law in favour of justification by Faith alone translats justified by Faith alone otherwise they are not to purpose For the question is only whether scripture alone contayne all things necessary to salvation 2. Indeed they cannot add solas nor can any vnderstand Search the Scriptures in that sense of taking Scriptures alone since our B Saviour in that Chapter of S. Iohn to proue that he was the Messias alledges the testimony of S. John Baptist and a greater testimony then John the very works which I doe miracles and also the voyce of his Father Matth. 3.17 Therfor our Sauiour beside Scriptures alledgeth other very powerfull meanes the voyce of John the voyce of works the voyce of his eternall Father 3. This Text speaks only of one Article of Faith to witt that Christ was the Messias and it is no good consequence the scriptures are cleare in one poynt of Faith rherfor they are cleare in all 4. Even for this one Poynt he doth not absolutely command them to search the scriptures as necessary of themselves but only ex hypothesi For vpon supposition that they did not beleeue for the other threefold testimonyes and that they believed scripture to be the word of God then it only remayned that they should search the scriptures and so our Sauiour sayth search the scriptures and expressly adds Joan. 5.39 For you thinke in them to haue life everlasting shewing that he speakes as it were ad hominem seing you ô Jewes will not belieue the testimony of John of Miracles and of my Eternall Father at least search the scriptures in which you thinke to haue life everlasting and the same are they that giue testimony of me As we Carholikes may say to Heretikes who reject the Authority of Gods Church and Tradition and admitt only scripture since you will not belieue the voyce of the Church and yet belieue scriptures search the scriptures which giue testimony of the Church And yet it were strang if Protestants should from such our daily speech infer that we belieue no other Rule or Judg besides scriptnre alone and I hope Protestants will not deny but that the testimony of S. John our Sauiours Miracles and the voice of his Eternall Father were sufficient to oblige men to belieue that our Sauiour was the Messias though they had not searcht the scriptures as we see Infidels to be converted to the Faith of Christ by Miracles and other Arguments of Credibility without helpe of scripture which they beleeue not to be the word of God except by force of those Arguments and I suppose they will grant that our Saviours Miracles and those other Arguments which he vsed were more forcible than any can be brought by any Apostolicall man for the conversion of Gentils So that vpòn the matter this Text search the scriptures pondered as it should be shews not only that scripture alone is not necessary but absolutely proves it is not so but may be supplyed by othermeanes as S. Irenaeus witnesseth of people that were converted to the Faith of Christ without knowledg of scripture 5. Protestants cannot proue that scrutamini search is the imperatiue mood S. Cyrill Lib. 3. in Joan Cap 4. holds that it is of the indicatiue and some learned Catholike Divines are of the same mynd yea Beza saith I agree with Cyrill who clearly waâ—nes vs that this is to be vnderstood rather by a verbe of the indicative and so our Saviour reprehends the Jewes who did search the scriptures and yet did not belieue in him of whom those scriptures spoke According to this Opinion or explication of this text our Saviour in this place neither commands nor forbids approves nor disallowes the reading of scripture but only signifyes what they did and supposing they did so blames them for not doing it with such a hart and disposition of soule as to find in them the true Messias At least seing this exposition cannot be evidently disproved it is evident that this text doth not evidently convince that the scripture alone contaynes evidently all things necessary to salvation yea rather since those men did read scripture and yet not belieue in Christ it is a signe that scripture alone is not so very cleare as to necessitate a mans vnderstanding to the true meaning therof without some dispositions on our behalf of which dispositions no man being absolutely and evidently certaine he cannot be certainly assured that he hath attayned the right sense by scripture alone without some other helpe as was the preaching and Miracles of our Saviour and the Testimony of s. John and of his Eternall Father and as to vs is the Authority and voyce of Gods Church But if we will follow the other opinion that our Saviour commanded those men to reade the scriptures it cannot be vnderstood as an absolute command seing they had other meanes more than sufficient and more effectuall than scripture to beget in their soules a belief that Christ was the Messias to witt Miracles voyce of his Father c but only as I sayd vpon supposition that they by their owne fault not making vse of those other meanes were obliged to make vse of this of scripture yet so as they might free themselves from that hypotheticall and voluntary necessity by applying themselves to those other meanes for neglect of which our Saviour reprehends them V. 38. His the Fathers word you haue not remayning in you because whom he hath sent him you beleeue not and yet they believed the scripture and this reprehension he prosecutes to the end of that Chapter The obligation then of searching scripture was voluntary and the command only to Jewes and Jewes so incredulous that they would neither belieue s. John nor our Saviour Christ nor the Eternall Father And if Protestants will imitate those Jewes and reject all Authority of a living Guide and rely only on scripture they for finding the true Church shal be obliged to search scriptures by a voluntary culpable necessity which they ought not to impose vpon others but contrarily they ought by all possible meanes to free themselves from it by submitting to Gods Church and her Preachers as so many Nations haue done before they knew scripture and in that case were obliged to attend to other Motives and Meanes and so thete is a far more vniversall and necessary command to Heare the Church than to search the scriptures 6. Our Saviour spoke only of the Old Testament And shall we out of his words infer that in the old Testament alone all Articles of Chrstian Faith are particularly and evidently contayned This Objection then proves too much and therfor indeed proves nothing 7. Scrutamini search signifyes diligence care endeavour labour
are written that you may belieue that Iesus is Christ the Sonne of God and that believing you may haue life in his name John 20. V 31. By these are written may be vnderstood either those things are written or these signes are written Take it which way you will this conclusion will certainly follow That either all that which S. Iohn wrote in his Gospell or less then all and therfor all much more was sufficient to make them belieue that which being believed with lively Faith would certainly bring them to eternall life 169. Answer Of this Text we haue spoken already Who would ever haue dreamed of this Argument S. John sett downe in his Gospell as much of the Miracles which our B. Saviour wrought as was sufficient to oblige men to belieue that he was the Son of God Therfor he sett downe evidently all things necessary to salvation as if nothing were necessary except the belief of that single Point or as if none can be damned if he belieue that Point which is to say no Christian can be damned For he who believes not Jesus Christ to be the Son of God and the Messias is no Christian Doth the Apostles Creed consist only of that Poynt And yet Potter and you say it containes only things belonging to Faith Do not many Heretiks beleeve that Point Yea if they did not belieue that Article they were not Heretikes but Jewes Turks or infidells and Aposttaes from Christian Faith Suppose S. John had written only some Miracles sufficient to proue Jesus Christ to be the Son of God without mentioning any other doctrinall point at all who will say that he had evidently sett downe all things necessary to salvatiō And S. John Epist 1. C. 2. V. ◠saith these things I write to you that you may not sinne as he saith in his Gospell These things are written that ye may belieue that Jesus is Christ the son of God Therfor as you will not say that in that Epistle he evidently setts downe all Points of Faith and other conditions required for keeping the commandements and avoyding sin but only that he wrote it to that end which yet was not to be obtained by that Epistle alone so although S. John saith Ep. 1. C. 1.4 These things we write to you that your ioy may be full yet the contents of that Epistle alone could not giue full ioy which requires the state of Grace and observation of all things belonging to Faith and Good life Nothing is more ordinary than to attribute an effect to some one cause because indeed it is a cause though it alone be not sufficient to produce such an effect He that shall belieue and shal be baptized shall be saved Mark 16.16 and yet Historicall Faith alone even according to Calvinists togeather with baptisme is not sufficient for salvation Luther Postilla in Dominic 5. post Pasch saith Here we see that to belieue in Christ doth not consist in believing that Christ is one Person which is God and man For this would availe no man Sadeel Resp ad Artic abjurat 33. Pag 495. saith it is not enough to belieue that Iesus Christ came into the world that he suffered death that he rose againe and ascended into Heaven for this Historicall Faith will not saue me This you did see and therfor to helpe the matter you closely add that S. John wrote sufficient to make men belieue that which being believed with lively Faith would certainly bring them to eternall life With lively Faith Therfor not by believing that Point alone Jesus is the Son of God A lively Faith signifyes the belief of all other Points of Faith and all things necessary for keeping all the Commandements and you should haue proved that S. John setts downe in his Gospell evidently all Points belonging to Faith and manners Here I must put you in mynd of your doctrine that there cannot be given a Catalogue of necessary or fundamentall Points of Faith and yet it may be easily and speedily given and you actually give it in this place if the belief of this Article alone Iesus Christ is the Son of God will certainly bring men to eternall life 170. But indeed is this Poynt which you alledg cleare and evident in S. Johns Gospell You could scarcely haue picked out a place or Poynt less for your and more for our purpose Do not Protestants differ both from Catholiks and amongst themselves about the Consubstantiality Merit and Satisfaction of out B. Saviour And for that which you say was S. Johns prime intent in writing his Gospell Vt credatis That you may belieue do not you in this differ from other Protestants toto genere as much as a belief only probable and fallible differs from a most certaine and infallible assent And concerning the words that you may haue life in his name do not you and your Socinian brethren differ from other Protestants who belieue the Value of our Saviours workes his Merit Satisfaction for our sinnes and Redemption of mankind And so in his name must be vnderstood by different Protestants in a very different sence which is the life of scripture In which maine differences you in your Principles will not say but that many or divers or at least some Protestants do sincerly seeke the true meaning of scripture and therfor could not disagree among themselves and from Catholikes if those words of S. John were evident according to your owne Rule That a thing is not evident when men so qualifyed disagree about it Catholique Bishops did overthrow the Arians who made no end of alledging scripture for their Heresy by Tradition and the word homoousion which is not found in scriprure And so you could not haue brought any Text of greater strength to proue the necessity of Tradition and of a Living Judg then this which you alledg for the evidence and sufficiency of scripture alone and if this Text itself be so difficult how can you by it proue that all other necessary Points are evident especially if we reflect on your words Pag. 93. N. 106. That the Evangelists wrote not only for the learned but for all men And therfor that they intended to speake plaine even to the capacity of the simplest A pretty paradox that the simplest are able to learne with certainty out of the bare words of scripture alone the most sublime mysteryes of Christian Religion which is more than the learned can do without observing divers Rules exceeding the capacity of the vnlearned and yet this absurdity cannot be avoyded if scriprure alone be the sole Rule of Faith because God hath provided meanes of salvation both for the learned and vnlearned and therfor if there be no other meanes beside scripture it must be cleare to all sorts of people What is this but to cast men into despayre 171. By what hath bene sayd there offers it self an easy answer to the Objection which you make Pag. 93. N. 105. Where speaking of the Evangelists
Christian Faith is only a probable assent he must affirme that it doth not necessarily require the peculiar supernaturall assistance of the Holy Ghost But why do J vse any proofe since we haue his owne express words in the same Pag. 37. n 9. Some experience makes me feare that considering and discoursing men being possessed vvith this false principle that it is in vaine to belieue the Gospell of Christ vvith such a kind or degree of assent as they yeeld to other matters of tradition And finding that their faith of it is to them vndiscernable from the beliefe they giue to the truth of other storyes are in danger not to belieue at all or else to cast themselues into wretched agonyes and perplexityes as fearing they haue not that without which it is impossible to please God and obtaine eternall happiness Do not these words declare that faith sufficient to please God and obtain eternall happiness is of the same kind and degree of assent as men yeeld to other matters of Tradïtion and truth of other storyes for the beliefe of which no man did euer say that a speciall motion or grace of the Holy Ghost was always necessary And it is to be obserued that he speakes of considering and discoursing mē as still reducing Faith to Reason wheras contralily experience teacheth that oftentymes simple persons belieue with humility and deuotion when the wisest mè of the world turne fooles in matters belonging to God or if they embrace the Faith of Christ they doe it not always with such strength of beliefe as many vnlearned people doe which shewes that Faith relies on some more high and diuine foundation then the only forces of naturall Reason XVIII To this we may add what he teacheth Pag. 62. n. 24. That our assurance that the Scripture hath bene preserued from any materiall alteration and that any other booke is incorrupted is of the same kind and condition both morall assurances And Pag. 141. No 27. For the incorruption of Scripture I know no other rationall assurance we can have of it then such as we haue of the incorruption of otherr ancient bookes such I meane for the kind though it be far greater for the degree of it And if the spirit of God giue any mā any othe assurāce here of this is not rationall and discoursiue but supernaturall and infused Marke how still he requires as necessary only a rationall discourse for the incorruption and preseruation of Scripture from any materiall alteration and yet Protestants acknowledging Scripture to be the only rule of Faith and beliefe of all Christian Mysteryes can be no more certaine of such mysteryes then they are assured of Scripture it selfe and still speakes of supernaturall infusea assurance as of an extraordinary thing And yet further Pag. 116 N o 159. he sayth We haue I belieue as great reason to belieue there was such a man as Henry the eight King of England as that Iesus Christ suffered vnder Pontius Pilate I suppose he will not say that a speciall grace of the Holy Ghost is necessary to belieue that there was such a man as Henry the eight Therfor he will and must say the same of the Article of our Faith that Iesus Christ suffered vnder Pontius Pilate since he saith there is as much reason for the one as the other Which yet is made more apparent by what he sayth Pag. 327. N o 5. in these words Men may talke their pleasure of an absolute and most infallible certainty but did they generally belieue that obedience to Christ were the only way to present and eternall felicity but as much as Caesars Commentaryes or the History of Salust I belieue the liues of most men both Papists and Protestants would be better then they are By which words it is cleare that either most Papists and Protestants want true Faith necessary to saluation or that Faith sufficiēt to saluation need be no greater concerning the Mysteryes of Christiā Faith then the belief we yeld to profane Hystoryes and certainly this requires no speciall Grace or motion of the Holy Ghost To conclude since he professes that Christiā Faith is of the same kind with rationall discourse and belief of other matters of Tradition and humane Historyes it clearly followes that it is in its essence naturall and in kinde different from supernaturall and therfor cannot vniuersally require the particular motion and assistance of diuine Grace XIX But les vs confute this proud Heresie by Holy Scripture S. Ihon. C. 6. V. 29. saith This is the worke of God that you beleeue in him whom he hath sent V. 44. No man cā come vnto me except the Father that sent me draw him and afterward he expourds what it is to come vnto him namely to belieue V. 64.65 There be certaine of you that beleeue not Therfor did I say that no man can come vnto me vnles it be giuen him of my Father V. 45. Euery one that hath heard of the Father and hath learned commeth to me Mat. 11.25.26 Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast reuealed them to little ones Yea Father for so hath it well pleased thee And C. 16. V. 17. Blessed art thou Simon Barjona because flesh and bloud hath not revealed it to thee but my Father which is in Heauē Which Text must be vnderstood of internall Grace and not only of the externall Reuelation or Proposition of the Object which was made to the wise and prudēt as well as to little ones and to many other beside S. Peter who yet were not therfor blessed as S. Peter was declared to be Isai 54.12 All thy children taught of our Lord. Act. 13.48 There belieued as many as were preordinated to life euerlasting And Act. 16.14.15 A certain woman called Lidia a seller of purple of the citty of the Thyatirians one that worshipped God did heare whose hart our Lord opened to atted to those thinghs which were sayd of Paul And when she was babtized c. Rom. 5.2 By whom Christ also we haue access through faith into the grace wherin we stand and glorie in the hope of the glorie of the sonnes of God If by faith we haue access to the hope of glory which is supernaturall Faith it selfe must also be supernaturall and require the speciall motion of the Holy Ghost Rom. 8.26 The spirit helpeth our infirmity For what we should pray as we ought we know not but the spirit himselfe requesteth for vs with groanings vnspeakeable Rom. 12.3 To euery one as God hath diuided the measure of faith 1. Cor. 12.3 No man can say our Lord Iesus but in the Holy Ghost V. 9. To anoter faith in the same spirit 2. Cor. 3. Not that we be sufficiēt to thinke any thing of our selues as of our selues but our sufficiency is of God 2. Cor. 4.6 Because God that hath cōmanded light to shine of darknes he hath shined in our harts to the illumination of the knowledge of the
presented holy and immaculate and blamelesse before him that is such a faith as is absolutely necessary to saluation which is that which Chilling expressly and purposely denies See of this place what I alledg afterward out of S. Chrisostome Gal. 1.8.9 Although we or an Angel from Heauen euangelize to you beside that which we haue euangelized to you be he Anathema As we haue sayd before so now I say agayne if any euangelize to you beside that which you haue receyued be he Anathema Certainly if our Faith be but probable it were against reason not to belieue an Angel from Heauen auouching the contrary But of this Text more hereafter Now let vs see what is the sense of the holy Fathers for this poynt 10. S. Dionysius Areopagita Cap 7. de Diuin Nomin sayth Eum qui in veritate credit iuxta Scripturae fidem nihil remouebit a verae fidei auctore in quo constantiam immobilis atque immutabilis habebit Nouit enim penitus is c. Him who in truth belieues according to the faith of Scripturè nothing will remoue from the author of true faith in whom he being vnmoueable and immutable will haue constancy For well knowes he who is joyned vnto truth how well he is albeit many reprehend him as a mad man and distracted S. Basill Ep. 43. ad Gregor Nyssenum Euen as in those things which appeare to the eye experience seemes to goe further than the reason of the cause so in sublime matters of doctrine faith it selfe is of more accoūt thā the reach of discourses And in a Serm. vpō the 115. Psalm Let faith goe before and guide speaches concerning God Faith and not Demonstration Faith which drawes the soule vnto assent aboue rationall methodes Faith aboue logick discourses and aboue Demonstration In Regulis moralib Regula 80. Faith is a most certaine satisfaction of the mynd concerning the truth of diuine wordes S Chrysostome Hom 21. in Ep ad Hebr. vpon those wordes Cap 11. Est autem Fides sperandarum substantiâ rerum argumentum eorum quae non videntur saith O how admirable a word vsed he saying An Argument of those things which are not seene For it is an Argument in things very hidden Faith therfore is sayth he a seeing of things which appeare not and it leades vnto the same certainty to which those also lead which are seene Therfore neither can it be called credulity or incredulity of those things which are seene nor againe can it be called faith but when one shall haue certainty concerning those things which are not seene more than concerning those things which are seene And Hom 4. in Ep ad Coloss vpon those words Coloss C. 1. Siquidem permanseritis Fide fundati ac stabiles non dimoti in Spe Euangely he saith He did not absolutely say shall persist For it may come to passe that he persist also who wauereth and disagrees He also may stand and remaine who wanders vp and downe and errs but if saith he yee shall persist grounded and stable and not mooved What could be spoken more clearly for the stable infallibility of Faith against the probable floating faith of Chillingworth as if this Sainct had purposely impugned him out of holy Scripture so many ages before he appeared And Hom. 8. in Epist ad Rom. he so declares the sublimity and difficulty of Faith and necessity of a great strength for ouercoming temptations against it that it clearly appeares he requires an other kind of Faith then only a probable Assent For speaking of one who belieues he saith This man hath God a debter and a debter not of vulgar matters but of great ād high ones Moroeuer hauing shewed the sublimity and spirituall thought of such a mans mynd he did not absolutely say credenti to him that belieues sed credenti in eum qui justificat impium but to him that belieues in him who justifyes the wicked For thinke with thy selfe how great a matter this is namely to belieue and to conceyue a certaine perswasion that God can on a suddaine not only free from deserued punishment him who hath spent his life in jmpiety but also make him just and furthermore bestow on him immortall honours And vpon these words Sed robustus factus est side But hee Abraham was made strong in faith he saith Seing that he treated both of those who performe works and of those also who belieue he shewed that he who belieues does a greater worke than the other and hath need of greater fortitude ād strength And he shewed that not he only who exerciseth temperance or some other like vertue but he also who belieueth needs very great strength and power For euen as he hath need of great strength for resisting the assaults of intemperancie so likewise this man must haue great courage to resist and keep himself from thoughts of disbelief Wherin then did he proue himself to be strong he committed saith he the matter to Faith not vnto conjectures Otherwise he would haue fayld and lost courage Neither sayd he S. Paule of Abraham meerly belieuing but hauing conceyued a certaine perswasion our vulgare hath plenissime sciens Rhemes Testament most fully knowing For such a manner of thing Faith is to wit more open and more manifest than that demonstration which is begotten by the discoursing of a considering mynd and therfore hath greater force in perswading For it wauereth not if perhaps some other thought do present it self For he that lyes open to the discourses of a mynd moved hither and thither may verily also alter his iudgmēt But one that firmly settles himself by Faith shutteth his hearing and fortifyeth it as it were vvith a trench against hurtfull thoughts These words of this holy Doctour do not only affirme but proue the necessity of an jnfallible Faith vnless vve vvill be alvvays in perplexityes doubts and danger of denying Christian Religion S. Ambrose Enarratione in Psalm 40. As there are some vvho haue eyes and see not so there be some vvho not seeing with their eyes are beleeued to see more Whence also Prophets vvere called Seers euen those vvho did not see vvith their eyes S. Hierome Ep. 61. ad Pammachium C. 3. will you know hovv great the feruour is of those vvho belieue aright Giue eare to the Apostle Although we or an Angell from heauen should euangelize othervvise vnto you be he accursed And in Cap. 1. Ep. ad Galat. the Apostle shewes the firmeness of his fayth saying I knovv that neither death nor life c. And contralily if Faith vvere not most certainly true vvho could be obliged to die for auerringe the truth therof vvhich is the argument brought by S. Bernard against Abailardus saying Ep. 190. Fooles therfor vvere our Martyrs suffering so grieuous punishments for vncertaine things not doubting through a hard passage to suffer a long banishment for a doubtfull revvard S. Austine Tom. 10. de verbis Dom. Serm. 63. Speaking of an Article of Christian Faith sayth
not such a feeling of Scripture and the Gospell of Christ they are no Christians nor ought we to forbeare the declaring how necessary infallible Faith is for any panicall feare of this Pharisaicall scandall Rather we are obliged to declare the truth least we become accessary to their perdition which none can avoyd who deny the certainty of Christian Faith and Religion and rest in the false confidence of fallible probable faith of the same kind with the belief which they give to the truth of other storyer I know you rely much vpon that Axiom that the Conclusion followes the weaker Premise but I did not imagine as I touched hertofore you would so farr betray yourselfe as to hold that If one have probable Motives to believe that some Man did testify a truth and have equall Motives that God reveales or witnesserh the same thing his assent to that truth as it is witnessed by God is not greater than his belief therof as it is witnessed by man if the Reasons for which I believe it is witnessed by God and by Man be of equall strength and yet you must say so if with your considering men you believe the Scripture and Gospell of Christ with the same kind of belief which they give to the truth of other storyes Wherin I confess you would doe as all Heretiques are wont pass from ill to worse For Pag 141. N. 27. you say For the incorruption of Scripture I know no other rationall assurance we can have of it then such as we have of the incorruption of other ancient Bookes that is the consent of ancient Copyes such I meane for the kind though it be farr greater for the degree of it And Pag 62. N. 24. speaking also of the incorruption of Scripture you say I know no other meanes to be assured herof than I have that any other Book is incorrupted For though I have a greater degree of rationall and humane Assurance of that than this in regard of divers considerations which make it more credible That the Scripture hath bene preserved from any materiall alteration yet my assurance of both is of the same kind and condition both Morall assurances and neither Physicall or Mathematicall But now you are very carefull that the faith of considering men be not crackt by too much straining but be left to believe the Gospell of Christ with such a kind of assent as they yeald to other matters of tradition and is vndiscernable from the belief they give to the truth of other storyes Vnhappy men who relying on their considering and discoursing forget that Christian Faith is a Gift infused by the Holy Ghost and not to be measured by meere humane Motives or Rules of logick I will not loose tyme in telling you that a thing may be crack't by too much strayning not only by excess as you vnjustly accuse vs but also by way of Defect such as your weake faith is in order to the true saving Faith of Christians which being reduced to probability looseth its very Essence and Kind 102. Object 8. Against these words of Charity Maintayned Chap 6. N. 2. Allmighty God having ordained man to a supernaturall End of Beatitude by supernaturall meanes it was requisite that his vnderstanding should be enabled to apprehend that End and meanes by a supernaturall knowledg And because if such a knowledge were no more than probable it could not be able sufficiently to over-beare our will and encounter with humane probabilityes being backed with the strength of flesh and bloud it was further necessary that this supernaturall knowledg should be most certaine and infallible and that Faith should believe nothing more certainly then that it selfe is a most certain Belief and so be able to beare downe all gay probabilityes of humane Opinyon You argue thus Pag 327. N. 5. Who sees not that many millions in the world forgoe many tymes their present ease and pleasure vndergoe great and toyisome labours encounter great difficultyes adventure vpon great dangers and all this not vpon any certaine expectation but vpon a probable hope of some future gaine and commodity and that not infinite and eternall but finite and temporall Who sees not that many men abstaine from many things they exceedingly desire not vpon any certaine assurance but a probable feare of danger that may come after What man ever was there so madly in love with a present penny but that he would willingly spend it vpon a little hope that by doing so be might gaine a hundred thousand pound and I would faine know what gay probabilityes you could devise to disswade him from this Rosolution And if you can devise none what reason then or sence is there but that a probable hope of infinite and eternall happyness provided for all those that obey Christ Iesus and much more a firme faith though not so certain in some fort as sense or science may be able to sway our will to obedience and encounter with all those temptations which Flesh and Bloud can suggest to avert vs from it Men may therfor talke their pleasure of an absolute and most infallible certainty but did they generally belieue that obedience to Christ were the only way to present and eternall felicity but as firmely and vndoubtedly as that there is such a Citty as Constaninople nay but as much as Caesars Commentaryes or the History of Salust I belieue the life of most men both Papists and Protestants would be better than they are Thus therfor out of your owne words I argue against you He that requires to true faith an absolute and infallible certainty for this only Reason because any less degree could not be able to overbeare our will c imports that if a less degree of faith were able to doe this then a less degree of faith may be true and divine and saving faith But experience shews and Reason confirmes that a firme faith though not so certaine as sense or science may be able to encounter and overcome our will and affections And therfor it followes from your owne reason that faith which is not a most certaine and infallible knowledg may be true and divine and saving faith 103. Answer First when Charity Maintayned wrote against D. Potter who with other Protestants and Catholiques maintaynes the infallibility of Christian Faith he never dreamed of any necessity to proue such an infallibility and therfor he touched that point incidently and not of purpose as a thing presupposed not to be proved And therfor what you object against vs is to be answered by those whom you call Brethren 104. Secondly I might speedily and easily answer in one word That your Objection doth not so much as touch the Argument of Char Maintayned which was that vnless Faith were infallible it would not be able to beare downe all probabilityes of humane Opinyon offering themselves against it that is it could not be constant and permanent and therfor must either be infallible or end in none at
which rather declare the difficulty and obscurity than the facility and evidence of Scripture For what great paynes and industry can be required to fynd out that which is evident And therfor S. Chrysostome sayth that our Saviour remitted the Jewes not to a simple and bare reading of the scripture but to a very diligent search therof For he did not say Reade the scriptures but search And Euthymius sayth He bids them digg more deeply into them that they may fynd out those thinges which are deeply layd vp therin like a treasure How then is it evident that Scrutamini signifyes evidently that all things necessary are cleare in scripture alone And yet we must remember that our B. Saviour spoke those words in order to the greatest and most essentiall Article of Chritian Faith to witt that Jesus Christ is the true Messias about which Poynt the Eunuch Act 8.34 had need that Philip should interpret Esay vnto him I beseech thee of whom doth the Prophet speak this Of himself or of some other To which purpose S. Hierome to S. Paulinus sayth of this Eunuch So great a lover of the Law and of divine knowledg was he that even in the chariot he read holy scriptures And yet when he had the book in his hands and conceyved our Lords words in his thoughts repeated them with his tongue sounded them with his lipps he was ignorant of him whom he worshipped vnknowen though yet it were hee of whom the booke did speake And Luk 24.27 the disciples stood in need that Christ should interpret vnto them in all scriptures which were concerning him What greater Mystery than this concerning Christ himself and how was it evident in Scripture when even the Disciples who were brought vp in the Schoole of Christ vnder such a Maister whose Divine words they heard and saw his admirable works and Miracles did not vnderstand it How many wayes is this Objection against Protestants and nothing at all against vs 63. Neither will they gaine any more by those words Joan. 20.31 which Chilling also objects Pag. 211. N. 42. These are written that you may beleeue that Iesus Christ is the Son of God and that beleeving you may haue life in his name For First what makes this to the purpose of proving that we are obliged to rely on scripture alone for all matters of Faith In these words there is no command even to reade S. Iohns Gospell but they only declare the end and occasion which moved him to write it namely to confute the Ebionite Heritiks and proue that Iesus is the son of God which makes good what I sayd hertofore that the Evangelists did not purposely intend to deliver all things necessary to salvation or make a Catechisme but wrote according to severall different occasions as now we see that if the Ebionites had not taught that wicked Heresy S. Iohn had not written his Gospell And therfor 2. This Text speaks of one Point only not of all Articles of Faith 3. S. Iohn speaks only of his owne Gospell and Chilling holds it only for probable that every one of the Gospells contaynes all necessary Points and therfor no certainty can be taken from these words that Scripture contaynes all things necessary 4. Even for this one Poynt of Faith S. Iohn sayes not that his Gospell is evident excluding the Authority of Gods Church and her Pastours yea he carefully relates our Saviours words to S. Peter Ioan. 21.17 Feed my sheep and we see for want of submitting to such Authority Chilling and other Socinians deny that for which s. Iohn wrote his Gospell that Iesus is the true sonne of God 5. In the Text These things are written that you may belieue c. s. Iohn speaks not of the doctrine taught but of the Miracles wrought by our Saviour Christ and therfor we must if this Objection were of any force say that all things necessary to salvation are evidently contayned in that part or those words and lines of his Gospell which precisely recount our Savionrs Miracles which to imagine is ridiculous and absurd Now that s. Iohn speaks of our Saviours Miracles is confessed by Whitaker as a thing evident de scripttur Q. 5. P. 619. saying It is evident that the Evangelist speakes of the signes and Miracles of Christ not of his Doctrine The Protestant Bible sayth Many other signes truly did Iesus in the presence of his Disciples which are not written in this booke But these are written that ye might belieue that Iesus is the Christ the Son of God Where we see these are written is referred to the substantiue which went before that is signes and it appeares also by reflecting on the Antithesis which he makes betweē not written and wtitten Many are not written which he sayes of signes many other signes truly did Iesus which are not writtē and then adds but these are writtē Therfor writtē and not written fall vpon the same thing But not written did relate to signes or miracles Therfor written must be refered to the same Chilling himself Pag 211. N. 42. saith By These are written may be vnderstood either these things are written or these signes are written And then what consequence is this S. Iohn wrote some Miracles of our Saviour Christ that men might belieue him to be the son of God Therfor all necessary Points of Faith are evident in scripture or in S. Iohns Gospell taken alone And he doth but play the Sophister to deceyue some simple Reader when out of S. Iohns words in the same Pag. 211. N. 42. he infers that All that which S. Iohn wrote in his Gospell was sufficient to make them believe that which being beleeved with liuely Faith would certainly bring them to Eternall Life For a lively Faith or a Faith working by Charity must include not only that one Article Iesus is the son of God but all other Mysteryes of Faith togeather with the keeping of all Commandements belonging to Charity and other Vertues and it may be sayd of any least Poynt of Faith that it being believed with a lively Faith will certainly bring the believer to Eternall life because a lively Faith involves all other necessary Poynts of Faith and Manners And his silent leaping from Faith alone yea from one only Article of Faith alone to a lively Faith demonstrates that the believing of that Poynt alone Iesus is the son of God is not sufficient for salvation vnless it be joyned with the belief of other Points belonging both to Faith and Manners and with observation of the Commandements which he will never proue to be evidently contayned in the scripture alone and much less in the Gospell of S. Iohn alone wherof more shall be sayd herafter In the meane tyme take for your Instruction these wholesome words of S Austine de vnit Eccl Cap 4. Whosoever belieue that Iesus Christ is the son of God yet so dissent from his Body which is the Church as their Communion is not with
you say Can we imagine that either they ommitted somthing necessary out of ignorance not knowing it to be necessary Or knowing it to be so maliciously concealed it or out of negligence did the work they had vndertaken by halfes If none of these things can without Blasphemy be imputed to them considering they were assisted by the Holy Ghost in this worke then certainly it most evidently followes that every one of them writt the whole Gospell of Christ I meane all the essentiall and necessary parts of it In which words you do nothing but begg the Question still supposing that the Evangelists were obliged to set downe in writing all necessary Points of Faith which though they knew to be necessary to be believed yet they neither did nor could know that they were necessary to be written which two things you ought to distinguish though it seemes you are resolved never to do so And here also you take vpon you to limit the Gospell to the essentiall and necessary parts of it of which your voluntary restriction I haue already sayd enough 172. But Sr. I cannot chuse but aske you vpon the occasion which here you giue how you can say that ignorance or negligence cannot without blasphemy be imputed to the Evangelists seing Pag. 144. N. 31. you affirme that the Apostles even after the sending of the Holy Ghost were and through inadvertence or prejudice continued for a tyme in an errour repugnant to a revealed truth and against our Saviours express warrant and injunction and Pag. 137. N. 2. you teach that the Church of the Apostles tyme did erre against a revealed truth through prejudice or inadvertence or some other cause which last generall reason gives scope to proceed in blasphemy if once we say that the Apostles were not in all things belonging to Faith directed by the Holy Ghost and for such as you to say that if they could erre by inadvertence prejudice or some other causes it was not impossible but at length one of those other causes might grow to be malice But more of this herafter Now I will only touch that which I noted before how little credit or authority your reasons ought to haue with any judicious person since you acknowledg it to be but probable that every one of the Evangelsts hath written all things necessary and yet you would needs haue your proofes therof to be certaine and evident Thus we haue heard you say Pag. 211.42 Take it as you will this conclusion will certainly follow that all that which S. Iohn wrote in his Gospell was sufficient to make them belieue that which being believed with lively Faith would certainly bring them to eternall life Vrceus institui coepit cur Amphora prodit A probability improved to a certainty by the only strength of confidence And Pag. 93. N. 105. you say that vnless we will blaspheme and accuse the Evangelists either or ignorance or malice or negligence certainly it most evidently follows that every one of them writt the whole Gospell of Christ I meane all the essentiall and necessary parts of it 173. Morover although you pretend to a certainty that S. Luke hath written all necessary Points which you hold only probable for the other three Evangelists yet your reason comes to be the same for all which is that the Evangelists were obliged to write all things necessary or els this which in effect is all one with the former what reasōn can be imagined that they should not write all things necessary and yet set downe many things only profitable For vnless you presuppose this reason which is common to all the Evangelists you haue no ground to affirme that the words of S. Luke all that Jesus began to doe and teach must signify determinately all necessary things as I haue often sayd and so vppon the matter you haue the same reason for all the foure Evangelists which is no more then the same begging of the Question 174. But what need we vse many reasons Our eyes can witness that the Evangelists haue not written all necessary Points of Faith For to omitt that they haue not set downe the matter and forme of Sacraments the forme of Government of the Church the power of inflicting censures and many such Points which cannot be evidently proved out of scripture alone without the assistance of tradition we do not find clearly expressed in S. Matthew the Eternall generation of the Son of God wherwith S. Iohn beginnes his Gospell In the beginning was the word c. S. Mark is silent of the Incarnation of our Lord in the wombe of the B. Virgin by vertue of the Holy Ghost His Birth and all other Mysteryes of his sacred life till his age of thirty yeares S Luke as also S Mark omits the giving power to forgiue sins Ioan. 20. V. 22.23 and Matth. 18. V. 18. which is a chief Article of our Creed I beleeue the remission of sinnes S. Iohn wrote nothing of the Annuntiation Nativity Circumcision Epiphany and Ascension of our Saviour Christ and according to Protestants he speakes not of the Eucharist For they deny that Cap. 6. he speakes of that Sacrament And consequently communion vnder both kinds which they hold to be a Divine precept and therfore necessary to salvation is omitted by him as also our Lords prayer All of them haue omitted in their Gospells that which is expressed Act. 2. about the sending of the Holy Ghost and the Decrees of the Councell of the Apostles Act. 15. wherin amongst other things they declare that it was not necessary to obserue the Mosaicall Law which is a most important and necessary point I haue bene longer in answering this objection as contayning many heads and divers Arguments of the same nature which I thought best not to divide Let vs now see what more you can object 175. Object 3. Pag 93. N. 105. If men cannot vnderstand by scripture enough for their salvation why then doth S. Paul say to Timothy the scriptures are able to make him wise vnto salvation 376. Answer First It is not sayd the scriptures alone are able to make one wise to salvation And if you had dealt honestly and not conceald what went before and after it would haue been cleare that S. Paul speakes not of scripture alone and of what scripture he speakes and how scripture may instruct to salvation which points being well considered it will appeare that this Text is so farr from proving what you intend that it makes against you S. Paul V 14. and 15. saith Tu vero permane c. But thou continue in those things which thou hast learned and are committed to thee knowing of whom thou hast learned and because from thy infancy thou hast knowen the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the Faith that is in Christ Iesus In which words S. Paul speakes of things which Timothy had learned of him though out of humility ād modesty he concealed his owne name as
you take away you destroy the vnity of the Church For a Division of that which is essentiall is a plaine destruction Protestants teach the true preaching of the word and due administration of Sacraments to be so essentiall to the Church that without them a Church ceases to be a Church therfore if there be not agreement or Communion in them they cannot be essentially one Church but essentially different and divided one from another This true Principle being setled 4. The first reason which Charity Maintayned Chap 5. Part 1. N. 12. alledges to proue his Assertion is this Seing Schisme consists essentially in leaving the externall Communion of the Visible Church of Christ and that Luther and his Associars did so as he proves by evidence of fact and by the confessions of Protestants Luther saying in Prà efat Oper suorum in the beginning I was alone And Calvin Ep 141. We were forced to make a separation from the whole world besides the sayings of other Protestants it followes that they cannot be excused from Schisme 5. The Answer which may be gathered out of Dr. Potter to this Reason is That they left not the Church but her Corruptions Which evasion Charity Maintayned confutes by willing him to consider that for the present we speake not of Heresy or departing from the Church but of Schisme of leaving her externall Communion which manifestly they did by separating from all Churches and consequently from the Vniversall Church which is the most formall sinne of Schisme And indeed they ought to inferr that the Vniversall Church is not subject to any errour in Doctrine and not tell the world that they forsooke her Communion for her Errours seing her Communion is never to be forsaken and therfore it is not possible that she can giue any cause of such a separation by falling into errour This we learne of S. Austine Cont Parm Lib 2. Chap 11. There is no just necessity to divide Vnity And Ep 48. It is not possible that any may haue just cause to separate their Communion from the Communion of the whole world and call themselves the Church of Christ as if they had separated themselves from the Communion of all Nations vpon just cause And S. Irenaeus Cont Heres Lib 4. C 62. They can not make any so important reformation as the evill of the Schisme is pernicious 6. Secondly Charity Maintayned proves them to be Schismatikes by this Argument Potter teaches that the Catholique Church cannot erre in points of Faith Necessary to salvation and therfore it cannot be damnable to remayne in her Communion although she were falsly supposed to teach some Errours seing they cannot be damnable and consequently cannot yield any necessary cause to leaue her Communion but it is cleare that Luther and the rest left the whole vniversall Church which was extant before them vnder pretense of Errours which cannot be Fundamentall Therfore it is cleare they left Her without any necessary cause Which I confirme by your owne words Pag 220. N. 52. where you say May it please you now at last to take notice that by Fundamentall we meane all and only that which is necessary and then I hope you will grant that we may safely expect salvation in a Church which hath all things Fundamentall to salvation vnless you will say that more is necessary than that which is necessary And Pag 376 N. 57. he that believes all necessary Truth if his life he answerable to his Faith how is it possible he should faile of salvation Therfore say I seing the Church vniversall cannot erre in necessary Points whosoever embraceth her Faith for as much as belongs to Faith cannot faile of salvation vnless you will say that more is necessary then that which is necessary which are your owne words You say also Pag 33. N. 4. If a particular man or Church may hold some particular Errours and yet be a member of the Church vniversall why may not the Church hold some vniversall Errour and yet be shell the Church This parity is none at all yet seing you must make it good I may say much more with all truth and without any dependence vpon your false parity if the Church vniversall may hold some vniversall Errour as you confess she may which yet indeed is impossible and be still the Church why may not a particular man or Church hold some particular errours and yet be a member of the Church vniversall and consequently capable of salvation for as much as concernes his Faith And therfore none can forsake the Church by leaving her Communion and making himself no member of Her for any such errours as are not opposite to a necessary Truth into which kind of errours it is confessed the Church cannot fall To which I may add what yousay Pag 35. N. 7. if some Controversyes may for many Ages he vndetermined and yet in the meane while men be saved why should or how can the Churches being furnisht with effectuall meanes to determine all Controversyes in Religion be necessary to salvation the end itself to which these meanes are ordayned being as experience shewes not necessary O how truly may we say and happy had your progenitors bene if they had done so If for so many Ages before Luthers pretended Reformation but true Schisme men wrought Miracles converted Nations were eminent for Sanctity attained salvation and are esteemed Saints in Heaven by our Adversaryes and this in the belief and profession of those Points which Catholikes now professe how could any Reformation or separation be necessary since the end itself of salvation to which all meanes are ordained was not necessary but was attained without any such Reformation or separation 7. Like to this Argument of Charity Maintayned is another which N. 22. he tooke from these words of Potter Pag 155. It is comfort enough for the Church that the Lord in mercy will secure her from all capitall dangers and conserue her on earth against all enemyes but she may not hope to triumph over all sin and error tell she be in Heaven If it be comfort enough to be secured from all capitall dangers why were not the first pretended reformers content with enough but rent the Church out of a pernicious greedyness of more then enough or a pretended desire to free men from all errour which cannot be hoped for out of Heaven If even the vniversall Church may not hope to triumph over all Errour till she be in Heaven much less can particular Churches and men conceiue any such hope and so you must either grant that Errours not Fundamentall cannot yield sufficient cause to forsake the Churches Communion or you must affirme that all Churches may and ought to be forsaken and that a man cannot lawfully be of any Church yea and that every one is obliged to forsake himself if it were possible for avoyding errours not Fundamentall Besides as it is not lawfull to leaue the Communion of the Church for abuses in life and manners
destructiue of salvation being but matters of small consideration in their account Secondly That they can not be excused from Schisme who forsooke all Churches for Points not Fundamentall and of so small moment in which they disagree amongst themselves and in diverse of which many of them agree with vs against their pretended Brethren which is to be well observed Thirdly that Chillingwâ— had no reason Pag 11 to say to Charity Maintayned produce any one Protestant that ever did so that is affirme that every errour not Fundamentall is not destructiue of salvation and I will giue you leaue to say It is the only thing in Question seing I haue proved out of many chiefe Protestants that for which he sayth no one can be produced yea and I can yet produce a full confession of Mr. Chillingworth himself that Errours in not Fundamentalls are not destructiue of salvation nor such as may necessitate or warrant any man to disturbe the peace or renounce the Communion of a Church Thus he speakes in his Answer to the Direction N. 39. Though I hold not the Doctrine of all Protestants absolutely true which with reason cannot be required of me while they hold contradictions yet I hold it free from all impiety and from all Errour destructiue of salvation or in itselfe damnable For the Church of England I am perswaded that the constant Doctrine of it is so pure and Orthodox that whosoever believes it and lives according to it vndoubtedly he shall be saved and that there is no errour in it which may necessitate or warrant any man to disturbe the peace or renounce the communion of it Here I obserue first If the doctrine of Protestanss whom he expressly confesses to hold contradictions and consequently some of them to hold errours at least in Points not Fundamentall be free from all errour destructue of salvation or in itselfe damnable it followes that errours against Points not Fundamentall are not destructiue of salvation nor in themselves damnable which is the thing I intended to proue 2. What he saith of the Errours among Protestants that they are not destructiue of salvation he must also say of our pretended errours both because commonly of disagreeing Protestants one part agrees with vs as also because as I sayd diverse of them stand directly with vs against the common course of the rest and finally because the reason of being or not being damnable is common to all Points not Fundamentall which are supposed to contradict some divine revelation sufficiently propounded which to doe if it be destructiue of salvation must be so for all such Points if not in none at all 3. If the constant doctrine of the Church of England be so pure that whosoever believes it and lives according to it vndoubtedly he shall be saved and that there is no errour in it which may necessitate or warrant any man to disturbe the peace or renounce the communion of it you must say seing Luther and his followers did and do disturbe the peace and renounce the communion of the whole Church of God before his tyme which must be supposed to haue erred only in Points not Fundamentall otherwise it had beene no Church they did and do that for which there was no necessity and for which they had no warrant and therfore cannot avoide the just imputation of Schisme For the same reason also that the Church erred only in points not Fundamentall you must grant that whosoever believes as the Church did and lives accordingly vndoubtedly shall be saved For I am sure you belieue the Church of England to haue erred in diverse Points and in particular in her 39. Articles which was her constant doctrine if she had any constant at all In particular your conscience tells you that you belieue not the Mystery of the Blessed Trinity and much less that our Saviour Christ was true God and consubstantiall with his Father to say nothing of other Points of those 39. articles And is it not ridiculous to heare you talke of purity of doctrine of the Church of England which you belieue to be stayned with such Errours But you wrote for Ends If then salvation may be so assured in the Church of England you must grant the same of that Church which Luther and his associates forsooke and that therfore they certainly exclude themselves from salvation by forsaking the communion of them amongst whom salvation was so certaine and remember your words Pag 272. N. 53. it concernes every man who separates from any Churches communion even as much as his salvation is worth to looke most carefully to it that the cause of his separation be just and necessary For vnless it be necessary it can very hardly be sufficient To which proposition if we subsume but it cannot be necessary to separate for avoyding that errour or attaining that Truth which to avoyde or attaine is not necessary to salvation therfore Luther who separated from the Church for Points not necessary cannot pretend any necessary or sufficient cause for such his separation aÌ„d consequeÌ„tly was guilty of the sin of Schisme 4. But yet you will still be making good that in these matters Protestants and yourself in particular haue no constancy but say and vnsay as may best serue their turne You tell vs the doctrine of all Protestants is free from all Errour in it selfe damnable which agrees not with what you say of Protestants Pag 19. If we faile in vsing such a measure of industry in finding truth as humane prudence and ordinary discretion shall advise in a matter of such consequence our Errours begin to be malignant and justly imputable as offenses against God and that loue of his truth which he requires in vt And Pag 306. N. 106. For our continuing in the Communion of Protestants notwithstanding their Errours the justification hereof is not so much that their Errours are not damnable as that they require not the belief and profession of these Errours among the conditions of their Communion And Pag 279. N. 64. The visible Church is free indeed from all Errours absolutely destructive and vnpardonable but not from all errour which in itselfe is damnable not from all which will actually bring damnation vpon them that keepe themselves in them by their owne voluntary and avoidable fault If the visible Church be not free from errour which in itselfe is damnable how could you say that the Protestant Church of England is free from all errour damnable in itselfe But why do I cite particular passages You giue a generall Rule concerning all Errours Pag 158. N. 52. in these words If the cause of it an errour be some voluntary and avoidable fault the Errour is it selfe sinfull and consequently in its owne nature damnable as if by negligence in seeking the Truth by vnwillingnes to find it by pride by obstinacy by desiring that Religion shoudl be true which sutes best with my ends by feare of mens â—ll opinion or any other worldly feare or
men may be saved why should or how can the Churches being furnished with effectuall meanes to determine all Controversyes in Religion be necessary to salvation the end itselfe to which these meanes are ordained being as experience shewes not necessary But the Answer to this objection hath been given already For some thing may be necessary for some persons at some tyme in some Circumstances which are not necessary vniversally for all Persons Tymes and Circumstances as I specifyed in the Councell of the Apostles in Canonicall writings which written vpon some particular occasion yet require an vniversall beliefe and in generall Councells which you and Potter affirme to oblige as we haue seene aboue Indeed your peremtory wild demand Why should or how can the Churches being furnished with effectuall Meanes to determine all Controversyes be necessary c might well by your leaue beseeme some Jew asking why should or how can Christian Religion be necessary to salvation if for many Ages it was not in Being and yet in the meane tyme men were saved Or why should or how can the believing and obeying the Definition of the Apostles in their Councell or the beliefe of the Gospells and other Canonicall writings be necessary to salvation if for many ages such beliefe was not required and in the meane tyme men were saued Or why should or how can infallibility be necessary to write the Scripture if the writing of Scripture was not necessary but that men were sayed without it You say in the same N. 7. I grant that the meanes to decide Controversyes of Faith and Religion must be indued with an vniversall infallibility in whatsoever it propoundeth for a Divine Truth For if it may be false in any one thing of this nature we can yield vnto it but a wavering and fearfull assent in any thing Which words seeme not to agree with what you add against Charity Maintayned in his N. 7. 8. that an vniversall infallibility must be granted to that meanes wherby controversyes in Faith are to be determined vnless men haue a mynd to reduce Faith to opinion of which words you say you do not perceyue how from the denyall of any of the grounds which Charity Maintayned layd it would follow that Faith is Opinion or from the granting them that it is not so For my part I do not perceyue how it was possible for you not to perceyue it since you confess that without an vniversall infallibility we could yield vnto such a meanes but wavering and fearfull assent a and what is this but opinion or a meere humane Faith As contrarily if the Meanes or Motiue for which I assent be infallible and I belieue it to be so and assent with an act proportionable to that motiue my assent must needs be certaine and infallible and not a wavering and fearfull assent If this be not so why do you require infallibility in the said meanes Certainly infallibility is not necessary to beget a wavering and fearfull assent 13. You would gladly free yourselfe of that just imputation that you confound Divine Faith with opinion But your tergiversation argues you guilty You bring I know not what parityes betwen Faith and Opinion but decline the maine difference That Divine Faith is absolutely certaine and infallible Opinion not You being conscious of your Antichristian Doctrine That Christian Faith exceeds not probability dissemble the chiefe difference which I haue declared and you will never be able to acquit yourselfe of that griēvous but just accusation that you change Divine Faith into opinion Wheras you say that as opinion so Faith admitts degrees and that as there maybe a strong and weake opinion so there may be a strong and weake Faith and add that Ch Ma if he be in his right mynd will not deny it I answer that still you sticke to your false ground that Christian Faith is not infallible Otherwise you would not make this comparison between the weakness and strength of Opinion and Faith which in its essence excludes all falshood As contrarily Opinion is not free from all feare least it be false 14. The confutation of your N. 8. about the infallibility of Christian Faith is the subject of my first Chapter and therfore I need say no more here except only to aske what you can vnderstand by these words of yours But though the essence of Faith exclude not all weakness and imperfection yet may it be enquired whether any certainty of Faith vnder the highest degree may be sufficient to please God and attaine salvation Can the very essence of Faith be weake and imperfect and yet the degrees therof be certaine in the highest degree and exclude that weakness and imperfection which the essence doth not exclude is not the whole essence of Faith in every degree or graduall perfection therof But as I sayd directly contrary to that which your words seeme to sound the very essence of Faith excludes all weaknesse that is all falshood and doubtfulnesse and every graduall entity therof includes such a certainty though one mans Faith within the compasse of the same essence may exceed the Faith of another in graduall perfections as contrarily though Opinion may haue many graduall entityes yet none of them can exclude formidinem oppositi a feare that the contrary may proue true which if any particular degree of intension did exclude it were not Opinion but a certaine knowledge and so could not be a degree of intension vnder the species or essence of Opinion but an assent essentially distinct from all Opinion 15. In your N. 9. I obserue that you do not only grant the possibility of a certainty of adherence in the will beyond the certainty of evidence in the vnderstanding but also a certainty of knowledge in the vnderstanding aboue the strength of probable Motives or Arguments of Credibility For you say they know marke this word know what they did but belieue and are as fully and resolutely assured of the Gospell of Christ as those which heard it from Christ himselfe with their eares which saw it with their eyes which looked vpon it and whose hands handled the word of life If God can do this with his Grace seing Christian Faith requires the Grace of God why do you deny that by it we are no less assured that the Objects of Faith are true than if we had seene them with our eyes c The rest of this number is answered Chap 1. 16. You are pleased N. 10. to delight yourselfe and deceiue others with a wild collection as you stile it fathered on Ch Ma being only a brood of your owne braine The case stands thus Ch Ma N. 8. hath these words Out of the Principles which I haue layd That there must be in Gods Church some meanes for deciding Controversyes in Faith and that it must be indued with an vniversall infallibility in whatsoever it propounds as spoken by God it vndeniably followes that of two men dissenting in matters of Faith the
poynt so prime a principle in Christian Diuinity so intrinsecall and essentiall to Christianity so fully effectually and frequently declared and vrged in Holy Scripture that the greatest enemyes of Gods grace Pelagius and his fellowes vvere forced to acknowledg it in vvords though dissemblingly XV. The same necessity of Grace is taught by the Protestant Church of England once so stiled in the 10. Article of the 39. in these vvords The condition of man after the fall of Adâ—m is such that he cannoâ— turne and prepare himselfe by his owne naturall strength and good works to Faith and calling vpon God wherfore we haue no power to dâ—e good works pleasant and acceptable to God without the Grace of Ged by Christ preuenting vs that we may haue a good will and working with vs when we haue that good will If anie say these Articles are now of small account and little less then disarticled I answer they haue this specious title Articles agreed vpon by the Archbishops and Bishops of both Prouinces and the whole Cleargie in the Conuocation holden at London in the yeare 1562. For auoiding diuersities of opinions and for the establishing of consent touching true Religion If now they carry so small authority their Title should haue bin directly contrary to what it is Articles agreed vpon for the establishing diuersityes of opinions and for the auoiding of consent touching true Religion As these Atticles are now despised so what soeuer shall euer be proposed or sett downe by any other will neuer be to any purpose for the establishing of consent in matters of Faith and Religion till England returne to the roote from which it hath diuided it selfe and seriously reflect into what precipices it is fallen by forsaking Rome and rejecting an jnfallible liuing judge of controversyes for who can giue any man of iudgment a satisfactory reason vvhy so many pretended Bishops vvere not of as good credit as others or wy others are not as much to be belieued as those Bishops I beseech euery one to whom the saluation of his soule is deare to ponder in good earnest this consideration and then to obey S. â—hons saying Apoc. 2.5 Be myndfull from whence thou art fallen and doe pennance SECTION II. The Necessity of Grace to Belieue XVI FAith being as the Apostle sayth Hebr. c. 11.1 the substance of things to be hoped for and foundation of our spirituall life if it proceede from our naturall forces or reason the vvhole edifice of our saluation must be ascribed to our selues vvhich vvere a most proude and luciferian conceypt and yet I reade in M. Chillingworth Pag. 375. n. 55. these words Neither do we follow any priuate meÌ„ but only the Scripture the word of God as our rule and REASON which is also the gist of God giuen to direct vs in all our actions in the vse of this rule And through his vvhole booke speaking of that Faith vvhich God requires of all men as their duty he teaches that it is only such as is proportionable to humane probable Inducements or a Conclusion by rationall discourse euidently deduced from such probable Premises Pa. 36. n. 9. He speakes of jnfusion as of a particular fauour aboue the ordinary measure of Faith And n. 8. God desires only that we belieue the conclusion as much as the Premises deserue And Pag. 212. n. 154. Neither God doth nor man may require of vs as our duty to giue a greater assent to the Conclusion then the Premises deserue to build an infallible Faith vpon Motiues that are only highly credible and not infallible And Pa. 381. n. 74. He speaking of our Catholique Faith vvhich he denyes not to be for substantiall fundamentall poynts true faith for he holds that true faith of some poynts may stand with damnable errours in other sayth I desire to know what sense there is in pretending that your persuasion is not in regard of the object only and cause of it but in nature or essence of it supernaturall vvhich demand vvere very impertinent if he did belieue that diuine supernaturall Grace vvere necessary for euery act of true Christian faith For if it be not supernaturall in essence how can the speciall motion and grace of God be necessarily required to it in all occasions though no particular temptatation or difficulty offer it selfe And he speakes very inconsequently in asking how vve know that our faith is not in regard of the object only and cause of it but in nature and essence of it supernaturall since it is cleare that if the cause be necessarily and vniuersally supernaturall the effect also must be such and therfore he is convinced to belieue indeed that neither the cause nor essence of faith is supernaturall I grant that Pa. 409. lin 3. ante finem he vvould perswade vs that he hath no cause to differ from Dr. Potter concerning the supernaturality of Faith which sayth he I know and belieue as well as you to be the gift of God and that flesh and bloud reueald it not vnto vs but our Father which is in Heauen But euen in this we can gather only that he admits the necessity of some grace consisting in externall Reuelation or Proposition of the objects or mysteryes of Christian faith vvhich Pelagius did admit but not the necessity of internall Grace or motion of the Holy Ghost for enabling our vnderstanding to belieue supernaturall Objects vvith an infallible diuine Faith yea it is euident that he requires no such internall grace seing he expresly requires no stronger assent by faith then evidently followes from probable Arguments of credibility that is only a probable beliefe or perswasion vvheras if beside the proposition of the object he did require a supernaturall motion of grace eleuating our vnderstaÌ„ding aboue its naturall forces and measure of humane discourse it vvere very inconsequent to limit the assent of faith to the probability of jnducements or ArgumeÌ„ts of Credibility And yet he restraines our assent to such probability expresly because in rationall and naturall discourse the conclusion cannot exceede the premisses and therfor must be only probable vvhen the Premisses are such XVII For which cause when he speakes of particular Grace given to some aboue the ordinary course he confesses that it gives them a certainty of adherence beyond their certainty of evidence as he expresly delivers pag. 37. n. 9. Which certainty in good consequence he could not denie to every Act of divine faith if he did believe that every such Act doth of it selfe necessarily require particular internall Grace of God aboue the forces of nature and beside the externall proposition of the objects or Mysteries of Christian belief Neither can it be denyed but that an Object of it selfe supernaturall may be belieued by the naturall forces of our Understanding with some probable naturall assent for Arguments euidently proposed as Miracles comparing of Historyes and the lïke reasons for which men belieue other matters of tradition since therfor he teacheth that
Charitie vvhich by the Apostle is preferrd before those other two vertues 1. Cor. 13.13 Now there remayne Faith Hope Charity these three but the greater of these is Charity Besides Charity being the fulfilling of the law if we cannot keepe the commandements without grace as we will proue in the next Section it followes that without grace we cannot Loue as we ought for attaining saluation But yet let vs alledge some places of Scripture wherin this truth is set downe 1. Ioan 4.7 Charity is of God and euery one that loueth is borne of God aÌ„d knoweth God Ioan. 14.23.24 If any loue me he will keepe my word and my Father will loue him and vve vvill come to him and will make aboad with him He that loueth me not keepeth not my words Who dare ascribe to a loue acquired by humane forces these priuiledges of keeping Gods word in so supernaturall a way as that the B. Trinitie will come and remaine vvith him Rom. 5.5 The charity of God is powred forth in our harts by the holy Ghost vvhich is giuen vs. Rom. 13.8 He that loueth his neighbour hath fulfilled the lavv V. 10. Loue therfor is the fulness of the lavv Galat. 5.22 The fruite of the spirit is charitie Ephes 6.23.24 Peace to the brethreÌ„ and charitie vvith faith from God the father and our Lord Iesus Christ Grace with all that loue our Lord Iesus Christ in incorruption XXIV Euen Chilling Pag. 20. saith what can hinder but that the consideration of Gods most infinite Goodness to them Protestants and their owne almost infinite wickedness against him Gods spirit cooperating with them may raise them to a true and syncere and a cordiall loue of God In vvhich vvords he may seeme to require the particular grace of the holy Ghost for exercising an Act of loue or charitie I say he may seeme because it is no nevves for him to dissemble or disguise his true meaning vnder some shew of words vsed by good Christians though it cost him a contradiction vvith himselfe and his ovvne Grounds Hovvsoeuer it be at least his manner of speach shevves hovv christians must not deny this truth SECTION V. The Necessity of Grace for keeping the Commandements and ouercoming temptations XXV THis point giues me againe iust occasion to obserue how they who deny a liuing jnfallible iudge of controuersies cannot auoyd running into pernitious extremes Some hold that Christians are not bound in conscience to keepe the Commandements a Vide Bellarm de justificatione l. 4. Cap. 1. in somuch as Luther is not afraid nor ashamed to say b In Commentario ad Cap 2 ad Galatas When it is taught that indeed faith in Christ iustifies but yet so as we ought to keepe the commandements because it is writteÌ„ if thou wilt enter into life keepe the coÌ„mandemeÌ„ts there Christ is instantly denyed aÌ„d faith abolished And elswhere c In Sermone de nouo Testamento siâ—e de Mâ—ssa Let vs take heed of sinnes but much more of lawes and good works Let vs attend only to the promise of God and faith I wonder how a man can take heed of sinne and ioyntly take heed of good workes Shall he be still doing and yet doe neither good nor badd Some teach that it is impossible to keepe the commandements euen with the assistance of diuine grace Others that they may be kept by the force of nature and that the assistance of Gods grace is not necessary except only to keepe them with greater ease or facility XXVI The true Catholike doctrine is that we may keepe the commandements and ouercome temptations by the grace of God not by our owne naturall forces which is manifestly declared in Holy Scripture EZechiel 36.26 I will giue you a new hart and put a new spirit in middest of you and I will take away the stony hart out of your flesh aÌ„d will giue you a fleshie hart And I will put my spirit in the middest of you and I will make that you walk in my precepts and keepe my iudgments and doe them 1. Ioan. 5.3 This is the charity of God that we keepe his commandements Ioan. 14.23.24 If any loue me he will keepe my word and my father will loue him and we will come to him and will make abode with him He that loueth me not keepeth not my words Behold louing or not louing keeping or not keeping the commandements goe togeather But we haue proued that Grace is necessary to loue God it is therfor necessary to keepe his commandements Rom. 8.3 For that which was impossible to the law in that it was weakned by the flesh God sending his son in the flesh of sinne euen of sinne damnes sinne in the flesh That the iustification of the Law might be fulfilled in vs. 1. Cor. 7.7 The Apostle teaches that not only the continency of virgins and widdowes but maried people also is the gift of God saying Euery one hath a proper guift of God one so and another so Sap. 8.21 And as I knew that I could not otherwise be continent vnless God gaue it this very thing also was wisdom to know whose this gift was I went to our Lord and besought him Rom. 2.13 Not the hearers of the Law are iust with God but the doers of the Law shall be iustifyed And yet the same Apostle sayth Galat 2 21. If iustice by the Law then Christ dyed in vaine And we may say in the same manner If iustice by nature and not by Grace Christ died in vaine S. Iames 3.8 The tong no man can tame Rom. 5.20.21 The Law entered in that sinne might abound and where sinne abounded grace did more abound that as sinne raigned to death so also grace may raigne by iustice to life euerlasting through Iesus Christ our Lord. Which words declare that grace is so necessary for fulfilling the Law that without it the Law was occasion of death by reason of humane frailty and corruption Rom. 4.15 The Law worketh wrath Rom. 7. V. 23.24.25 I see another Law in my members repugning to the law of my mynd and captiuing me in the law of sinne that is in my members Vnhappy man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this death The grace of God by Iesus Christ our Lord. 1. Cor. 15.56 57. The power of sinne is the law But thankes be to God that hath giuen vs victory by our Lord Iesus Christ 1. Cor. 10.13 God is faithfull who will not suffer you to be tempted aboue that which you are able but will make also with teÌ„ptation issue that you may be able to sustaine Psalm 17.30 In thee I shall be deliuered from teÌ„ptation Psa 26.9 Be thou my helper forsake me not Psalm 29.7.8 I sayd in my aboundance I will not be moued for euer Thou hast turned away thy face from me and I became troubled Psalm 117.13 Being thrust I was ouerturned to fall and our Lord receyued me 1. Pet. 5. V. 8.9 Be sober
N. 4. he endeauours to proue that Faith cannot be absolutely certaine because if it were so any least doubting would destroy it which shewes that doubting may well consist with his kind of probable faith which is that very absurdity which we inferrd as impious against true Religion of which we must resolue neuer to doubt though per jmpossible an Apostle or Angel should moue vs therto as we haue heard out of S. Paule and yet the Authority of an Apostle or perswasion of an Angell should in all reason be preferrd before Faith if it be only probable 24. This inconstancy in Religion appeares further by what he confesses of himselfe Pag. 389. N. 7. where speaking of a command of obedience to the Roman Church he hath these words sure I am for my part that I haue done my true endeauour to find it true and am still willing to doe so but the more I seeke the further I am from findinge c. Behold how after so long tyme so much deliberation so many changes of Religion euen after the writing of his Booke he is still willing to find and embrace a Religion different and contrary to that which he professed Also P. 184. N. 90. he sayth Shew vs any way and do not say but proue it to haue come frrm Christ and his Apostles down to vs and we are ready to followit Neither do we expect Demonstration herof but such reasons as may make this more probable than the contrary Agreable to this is his professing Preface N. 2. that he had a trauellers indifferency most apt and most willing to be led by reason to any way or from it And N. 5. he professes that his constancy in Religion consisted in following that way to Heauen which for the present seemed to him the most probable A poore comfort and miserable faith only probable and of no longer continuance than for the tyme present I willingly omitt that his deeds were agreeable to his words changing first from Protestants to Catholike then from Catholike to Protestant and about againe to Catholike till at last he became neyther Precisian nor Subscriber to the 39. Articles nor confessed Socinian nor any thing vnless that mhich S. Bernard sayth of Abailardus Ep 193. Homo sibi dissimilis est totus ambiguus He is a man who disagrees euen from himselfe wholy compounded of doubts I willingly leaue out his middle words Intus Herodes for is Ioannes inwatdly a Herode outwardly a Iohn If the Apostles be to be belieued only in that which they deliuered constantly as a certaine diuine truth as he teaches Pag. 144. N. 31. surely this man and his fellow Socinians ought not to be belieued in any thing seing according to their doctrine that faith is fallible and but probable they neither are nor can be constant in any poynt they deliuer and so we cannot say so much of them as of the Scribes and Pharisees Matt 23.2 whatsoeuer they shall say vnto you doe but according to their works doe not but doe neither what they shall say nor according to their works And heere I beseech and euen begg of the Reader if he haue any care to saue his soule that he will consider how far the faith of this man and his Associates is from true Christian Faith of which we haue heard S. Paule saying Although we or an Angell from Heauen euangelize to you beside that which we haue euangelized be he an Anathema 25. But this is not all that strongly offers it selfe in this poynt For not only his Faith cannot affoard any rest or satisfaction wherby a man may cease from further inquiry but leaues him with a strict obligation to be incessantly examining his Religion and seeking whether he can fynd some more probable and better grounded This sequele seems cleare Because the true Faith and Religion being absolutely necessary to saluation charity towards ones self obliges euery man to seeke the safer way and the most certaine Religion And seeing he is not certaine that the Religion or way to Heauen which for the present seemes to him most probable as we haue heard him speake is indeed the right way what remaynes but that men are obliged to be continually busied and perplexed in the search of the true Faith necessary to saluation This my inference seemes to be acknowledged by him For beside what hath beene already cited he sayes of himselfe P. 278. N. 61. If I did not put away idleness and prejudice and worldly affections and so examine to the bottome all my opinions of diuine matters being prepard in mynd to fellow God and God only which way sceuer he shall lead me if I did not hope that I eyther doe or endeauour to dâ—e these things certainly I should haue little hope of obtaining saluation Loe heere little hope of saluation vnless a man be still examining to the bottome his opinions and be prepard in mynd to follow c. But in Vaine it is to seeke that rest which will neuer be found except in a Faith and Religion acknowledged to be absolutely certaine and infallible which alone can put an end to all further inquiry Finally Pag. 376. N. 57. he sayth This is the Religion which I haue chosen after a long deliberation and I am verily perswaded that I haue chosen wisely Ponder verily perswaded And were not you verily perswaded in those your changes which you acknowledg Pag. 303. N. 103. from a moderate Protestant to a Papist from a doubting Papist to a confirmed Protestant were you not I say verily perswaded that you did choose wisely Yea you expresly tell vs in the same Pag. 303. that of a moderate Protestant you turned a Papist and that the day that you did so you were conuicted in conscience that your yesterdayes opinion that is Protestantisme was an errour By all which appeares how inconstant you were and must be in matters of Faith and Religion till you acknowledg an infallible Faith taken from an infallible liuing Guide which is Gods true Church 26. From this liberty of Belief what can follow but liberty of life Seing his belief of Heauen and Hell is but an opinion concerning things of an other world wheras worldly pleasures are in present possession and certaine If the absolute certainty wherwith all Christians hitherto haue belieued their Faith to abound hath not bene able to stop the course of mens licentiousness what can we now expect but that they who before did runne will now fly after the Idols of whatsoeuer may appeare to their soules or bodyes objects of profit or delight Pag. 326. N. 4. he teaches that if faith be infallible no Christian could committ any deliberate sinne yea and must be perfect in Charity because Faith is the victorie which ouercomes the world and Charity is the effect of Faith If this be so we may say on thecontrary side that if faith be weake or only probable what victory what perfection in Charity can be hoped from it But let
any thing contrary to any Verity reuealed in the Word of God though neuer so improhable or incomprehensible to Naturall Reason For if his Faith be to his vnderstanding only probable how can he in prudence prefer it before the contrary therof which to his vnderstanding seemes euident and certaine Or how can an assent which I judge to be only probable enable me to belieue that which I judg to be euidently improbable And it is in vayne for him to tell vs of the certainty of Gods Reuelation since we do not compare Naturall Reason with Gods Reuelation but with those Motiues for which we belieue the diuine Reuelation which being to him only probable and esteemed such and no more must yeald to appearance of certainty of the contrary and therfor he must either confess that he contradicts him selfe or yield that Faith is infallible ād more certaine thā naturall reasō 30. To speake truth if we consider well this Socinian Faith can haue no other vse or effect except only to damne men by contenting themselues with a faith of probability when they may and ought to attaine a certainty He himselfe Pag. 36. N. 9. doubts not but that the spirit of God being implored by deuout and humble prayer and sincere obedience may and will by degrees aduance his seruants higher and giue them a certainty of adherence beyond theyr certainty of euidence And those that belieue and liue according to their faith he giues by degree the spirit of obsignation and confirmation which makes them know though how they know not what they did but belieue And to be as fully and resolutely assured of the Gospell of Christ as those which heard it from Christ himselfe with their eares which looked vpon it and whose hands handled the word of life Now if some men may arriue to so absolute an assurance why may not others why must not all Are not all bound to liue according to their Faith and to obserue the lawes of charity and obedience which doing you say they shall arriue to a full and resolute assurance euen aboue that which you call faith You say Pag. 227. N. 61. Gods assistance is alwayes ready to promote the Church farther on condition she does implore it And Pag. 175. N. 75. You grant the spirit of truth shall be giuen and will abide with those that loue God and keepe his Commandements Yea since true Faith is alwayes the Gift of God raysing vs vp by Grace aboue the strength of nature And that euery one is obliged ro haue true Christian Faith it is consequent that de facto all are bound to beleiue with a Faith produced by Grace aboue the forces of nature and consequently infallibly certaine For heere that excellent saying of S. Leo Serm. 16. de Pass Domini hath place Iustè Deus instat praecepto quia praecurrit auxilio He may well exact of vs an infallible Act of Faith seing he giues vs sufficient Grace to performe what he exacts And Pag. 34. N 6. you say The essentiall character of Charity is to judg and hope the best by which you are obliged to judg and hope vnless the contrary be manifest that euery one liues according to his belief by obseruing the Commandements and so in fact is arriued to a certaine and infallible Faith Since therfore you grant that the faith of those who liue according to their Belief is not to be regulated by the Lawes of Logicke and formes of Syllogismes with what shaddow of reason would you make men belieue that the Faith of all Christians necessary to saluation which is a speciall infused Gift of God must be subject to such Rules as if it were a meere Conclusion following only the weaker of the Premises and not measured by the speciall Grace and Motion of the Holy Ghost aboue all Logick Thus all your Objections against the infallible Faith of Christians must be answered by your self as false and sophisticall and consequently all Christians may and ought in despight of such paralogismes to assert and belieue the necessity of an infallible Faith And as I sayd the contrary doctrine can serue only to delude and damne those vnhappy soules who will be harkninge to such noueltyes I say to damne soules euen though it were falsely supposed that his doctrine were true For all Christians beside this man and such as hee sirmely belieuing Christian Faith necessary to saluation to be infallibly true and he acknowledging all poynts of Christian Faith to be but probable and surely he will not be so shamlesse as to say he belieues this particular fancy wherin he disagrees both from Catholiques and Protestants to be more certaine than all other Articles of Faith it cannot be denyed but that men are bound to belieue with an infallible Assent because as I sayd◠in matters absolutely necessary to saluation we are bound by the Law of God and Charity to our selues to embrace the safer way by meanes of an infallible Faith which he confesses may be obtained by prayer and obedience to Gods commandements And so vpon one account or other all are obliged vnder payne of damnation to belieue with an infallible Faith 31. As it is very true that there is no greater nor more foolish sinne than the sinne of Desperation irreuocably bringing damnation which might haue been auoided by Hope for which Gods Grace is neuer wanting if we cooperate so we may say that this fallible Faith infallibly dispatches men to Hell which mischief all may auoide by endeauouring to rayse their faith to certainty as he confesses they may doe by obeying and praying which endeauours the Grace of God puts in their power and will and if they reject it to none more justly then to this infortunate man and his fellowes may be applyd these words of the Prophet Ezechiel C. 18. V. 31.32 Why will yee dy returne and liue Which that they may doe either with more ease or become inexcusable if they doe it not we will more and more confute that Ground on which he doth in a manner wholy relie That the Conclusion following the weaker of the Premises one of which is in our case but probable the Conclusion can be no more than probable 32. For First I would for disputation sake aske of him whether he meane that the Conclusion doth so follow the weaker of the Premises that it receyues no strength or perfection from the fellowship of a better Premise than it selfe is If he answer that it receyues no strength then one will infer that one Premise contayning the Testimony or Reuelation of God an other the testimony of men could produce no stronger conclusion than if both Premises did containe only the testimony of men and so he must confess that de facto he belieues the Articles of Christian Faith no more than if by probable arguments they were proued to be testifyed by men alone If he answer that rhe stronger Premise may eleuate the weaker to produce a Conclusion stronger than
other such qualityes and know in scientificall Demonstrations and belieue in Hope and Charity Is not the same truth knowne with more euidence and consequently with more certainty according to his grounds by a perspicatious vnderstanding than by one more dull Which argues that there are degrees in certainty What is more knowne than that Axiom of Aristotle Propter quod vnumquodque tale illud magis tale That for which euery thing is such is it self much more such Chilling himself Pag. 377. N. 59. Saith we must be surer of the proofe then of the thing proued otherwise it is no proof If then the conclusion be certaine by vertue of the Proof or Premises these must be more certaine which supposes different degrees of perfection euen in certaine and infallible acts of our vnderstanding and then why not in Faith though it be certaine and infallible And his objection that according to vs all true Faith must be most certaine and the most perfect that is cannot be more than most certaine hath no more strength than it receyues from ignorance For when Faith is sayd to be most certaine the comparison goes not betweene different degrees of graduall perfection in Faith it selfe but betweene Faith and naturall knowledg Or els Faith is sayd to be most certaine for its essence because with euery degree of true Faith we must belieue articles reuealed with an assent super omnia aboue all essentially excluding all doubt or dissent from such articles as Hope relyes Vpon God super omnia aboue all and essentially refuses to admitt any voluntary act of desperation and Charity essentially loues God aboue all things appretiatine choosing to loose all things rather than to offend God and therfor effectually moueing vs not to consent vnto any deadly sinne In these essentiall perfections there is an indivisibility and a most or greatest perfection which being taken away the Vertue is destroyed but it passeth not so in Graduall perfections of Faith Hope Charity and other Vertues either infused or acquired 45. What knowledg is so certaine euident and perfect as the Beatificall Vision which may truly be called most perfect but how In respect of other knowledg terminated only to created Objects but in respect to it selfe in order to Graduall perfection it consists not in an indiuisible poynt because one Angell or Saint beholds God intuitiuè with more perfection than another Thus euen your probable Faith must essentially exclude all Doubt Taken in the most proper sense that is not as it signifyes formidinem oppositi some feare least the contrary be true but as it is taken for a suspension of our assent to either side which cannot possibly consist with a probable possitiue assent to one part and in this essentiall notion of excluding all such Doubt all probable judgments must agree and yet you will not deny but there are different Graduall degrees in probable assents and in particular in your probable Faith which you proue to be but probable that so you may as you pretend agree with Scripture mentioning different degrees of Faith 46. Not in this instance only but in others also I conuince you by your owne assertions Pag. 36. N. 9. you say The spirit of God being implored by deuout and humble prayers and sincere obedience may and will by degrees aduance his seruants higher and giue them a certainty of adherence beyend their certainty of euidence And To those that belieue and liue accordingly to their faith he giues by degrees the spirit of obsignation and confirmation which makes them know though how they know not what they did but belieue And be as fully and resolutely assured of the Gospell of Christ as those which heard it from Christ himselfe with their eares which saw it with their eyes which looked vpon it and whose hands handled the Word of life Heere you speake of certaine persons arriuing by degrees to an absolute certainty and I hope you will not deny but that there might be disserent degrees of perfection among them according to the degrees of their deuout and humble prayers and sincere obedience and that the same man might by degrees be aduanced aboue himself as also that they might pray for such increase Therfore there are degres in certainty for attaining of which one may praye as in your objection you alledg the Apostles prâ—ing to Christ to increase their Faith which is directly for vs against your selfe For Pag. 329. N. 7. you teach that the Apostles for some points had absolute certainty in their faith or an assent which was not pure and proper and meere faith but somwhat more an assent containing faith but superadding to it Therfore certainty may be increased and this increase may be prayed for as the Apostles did and among the Apostles who doubts but that one might belieue with more certainty than an other Surely you will be content that S. Paule enter into the number of those who liuing as they belieue attaine an absolute certainty and yet he made progress in charity as himselfe witnesseth 1. Tim 4. V. 6.7.8 I am euen now to be sacrificed and the tyme of my resolution is at and. I haue fought a good fight I haue consummate my course I haue kept the Faith Concerning the rest there is layd vp for me a crowne of justice which our Lord will render to me in that day a just judge You see this blessed Apostle not long before his death speakes of a crowne due for his Faith and good workes or Charity without exception of any tyme wherin his Faith was fallible which indeed was alwayes most certaine and infallible by the particular appearing of our Sauiour to him and most express reuelation which certainty had bene no favour but a great harme if it had depriued him of all increase in charity notwithstanding his continuall exercise of heroicall good workes and a death glorious by martyrdome the highest pitch of Charity and perfection and yet he sayd Phil. 3.12 Non quod jam perfectus sim not that I now am perfect And the like might I say of all the Apostles and other Saints who liued as they belieued and were eminent in Prayer Obedience and all sanctity 47. But this is not all that may be alledged against you out of your owne doctrine Pag. 330. N. 8. You say that we are to belieue the Religion of Christ we are and may be infallibly certaine and this you endeauour to proue by some arguments which you stile certaine and then conclude from all these premises this conclusion euidently followes that it is infallibly certaine that we are firmely to belieue the truth of Christian ReligoÌ„ Now it cannot be denyed but that in this assent It is infallibly certaine that we are firmily to belieue the truth of Christian Religion there may be degrees of certainty or perfection both in different persons at the same tyme and in the same person at different tymes as he may more and more ponder the Reasons which
necessity of an infallible certaine Faith as I haue shewed as also that your Objection and endeavour to proue that a fallible Faith is sufficient for the exercise of good workes is nothing to the purpose since Char Maintayned spoke of sufficiency to obserue the precepts of Faith and if you belieue S. Iohn Chrysostome cited aboue that according to S. Paule it is a harder matter to belieue the high mysteries of our Faith than to exercise good workes you will easily inferr that although you could proue a probable Faith to be sufficient in order to Obedience or exercise of good workes yet it would not therfor remaine proved to be sufficient for believing as we ought And S. Chrysostome saying that it is so hard a thing to belieue supposes Christian Faith to be more than probable 108. Fourthly I say That although the words of Char Maintayned be taken in the sense which you would put vpon them yet your Arguments are of no force to confute them or to prove that a fallible Faith is able to overcome our will ād encounter with humane probabilityes backed with the strength of flesh and bloud And First I must intreat you not to cosen your Reader as a Minister foold his Auditours who after he had spoken much of Gods Commandements in the close of his discourse desired not to be mistaken as if he belieued that those Commandements of which he had spoken could be kept for it was very certaine they could not which if he had told them in the beginning he might haue spared his owne paynes and the exercise of their patience in hearing his prating and praysing an impossible thing Our Saviour sayd if thou wilt enter into life keepe the commādemēts Matth 19.17 These men tell vs if thou wilt enter into life belieue firmily as a matter of Faith that thou canst not keepe the commandements But to our purpose least Mr Chilling loose his labour and deceaue his Hearers I must beseech him to deale plainly and before he goes about to moue their wills he would in forme their vnderstandings by letting them know that he is to speake of infinite and eternall happyness provided for all those that obey Christ Iesus and of vnspeakeable eternall torments to be inflicted on all such as break his commandemēts but withall he must assure them that although both Papists and Protestants teach that all must belieue with absolute certainty there is a Heauen a Hell Eternall rewards and punishments a Sauiour a Resurection working of miracles and the like yet that with men considering discoursing and vsing rationall deductions according to the never failing rules of Logick which are his words in severall parts of his Booke such as He and his fellowes are the matter passeth farr otherwise For they belieue that the teaching a necessity of such a certaine Faith is a Doctrine most presumptuous and vncharitable Pag. 328. N. 6. and a greate errour and of dangerous and pernicious consequence Pag. 325. N. 3 And that indeed the Articles which all Christians belieue may for ought they know Certainly to the contrary in the end proue false and no better than dreames Thus I must intreate him to prepare his Auditours and then let vs heare how he will goe about to perswade yea oblige them vnder payne of eternall damnation to the observance of things most difficult and repugnant to humane principles naturall inclinations flesh and bloud self-loue and in a word which are To the Gentils foolishness to the Iewes a scandall 1. Cor 1.23 and besides are not present and within sight as things of this life are but remote and of an other world Let vs thē heare him preaching rather than prouing in the words which I cited in the Objection who sees not that many millions c 109. To which your loose kind of disputing diverse would giue different answers Perhaps some hearing from others your so many changes of Religion and from your self that your present belief is but probable they would take tyme for tryall how long you would persever in your sect of a late Date for tyme and strange for the nouelty as being contrary both to Protestans with whom you liued so long tyme and against Catholiques to whom you joynd your selfe not by any force for who or what except evidence of truth could force you to a Religion lying vnder the burthen of a long and cruell persecution but vpon due consideration of Reasons on all sides and not taking things at a second hand or vpon credit but by examination made immediatly by your selfe or by conference with others who gaue you all freedom and encouragement to propose your difficultyes And for this their delay in resolvinge they might perhaps make vse of a saying of your owne Pag 330. N. 7. He who requires that I should see things farther than they are visible requires I should see something invisible and apply it to this sense That you who flitted from a Faith which you believed then to be certaine to a belief confessedly not certaine and perswade others to do the same may in tyme passe from a non-certainty to a non-entity or non-existence of all Faith and so by degrees bring your proselytes to plaine infidelity 110. Others will answer That indeed if men were once infaliibly certaine of the great promises and threats you mention of Heaven Hell Resurrection from death c. They could excogitate no satisfying reason to avoide Obedience and keeping the commandements Yet while we suppose them to be deliberating about the election of their Faith and actually enjoying or in a way or possibility and freedom to enjoy things of profit and pleasure in this world which are present and certaine and proportionable to their naturall inclinations and powers of Body ād soule ād thē heare you telling thē that no Religion is certaine and talking of things to come a farr of and in another world which to humane reason not assisted by certainty of Faith looke like the spatia imaginaria before the world was created you ought not to wonder if notwithstanding all the fayre words in your Objection men would be apt to pleade the possession of their Freedom and liberty which they will not easily bring vnder so strict obligation and seeming heauy yoke meerly vpon a belief concerning which your selfe profess to have only this certainty that it is not certaine Christians firmely belieue by Faith know evidently by reason see dayly by experience that dye they must they heare all men say and themselves belieue Death to be Omnium terribilium terribilissimum the most dreadfull of all dreadfull things and yet we see they more apprehend the danger of wetting their cloathes by a gentle shower threatned instantly to fall than death it selfe And why because the one is apprehended as almost present the other is looked on as farr of for space of tyme as the vast body of the sun seemes to be a small thing by the great distance of place Besides divine
and supernaturall Objects hold so great disproportion with humane Reason and contrariety with our naturall inclinations that they appeare either hard or impossible and no more apprehensible by possession than comprehensible by reason I beseech you tell me sincerely what you thinke would haue been the Success of S. Paules preaching to the Athenians against their false Gods and for the true Messias and Resurrection of the dead if he had told them clearly that they could haue no certainty of those or any other Mysteryes of Christianity 111. Vpon these grounds it appeares that your Objections are of no force and in particular that which you did propose as vnanswerable What man say you was there ever so madly in loue with a present penny but that he would willingly spend it vpon any litle hope that by doyng so he might gaine an hundred thousand pround This I say proves nothing at all because as you nakedly deliver it it proves too much and yourself and all Protestants and all Christians must answer it as being manifestly repugnant to the experience of all men who surely find greater difficulty naturally speaking to keepe the commandements to forgive and do good to their deadly enemyes to suffer persecution to beare their Cross to deny themselves c. then they could even possibly find in spending a single penny in the case you propose devested of any accidentall difficulty or aggravating circumstance only considering the disproportion betweeÌ„ a penny and so many thousand pounds which is so vast and evident to sense and reason that the will remaynes determined and in a manner necessitated to giue so litle for so much and a man greedy of gaine would in some sort find as great difficulty in such a case not to giue a penny for so many pounds as to giue so many pounds for a penny which in respect of those thousands lookes like nothing compared to something But the difference betweene earthly and heavenly things though it be in it selfe incomparably greater than any disproportion can be conceyved betweene worldly objects compared amongst themselves yet to vs it appeares not with evidence to be so and therfore our vnderstanding and will need the support and certainty of a high and Divine ranke to supply the evidence of reason or sense aÌ„d resist all kind of temptations For which cause Faith is called the substance of things hoped for and an Argument of things not seene which therfor in order to vs who by nature are strangers to mysteryes so sublime must receyue being existence and subsistence from a firme and certaine belief And now Sir is it indeed as easy to keepe the commandements which many of those whom you call Brethren hold impossble to be kept and Catholikes belieue it cannot be done without Gods speciall Grace as it is to spend a penny for gayning so many pounds because our Saviour hath so revealed that to giue a cup of could water which is not worth a penny for his sake shall not want a reward iâ—sinitely greater not only than millions of pounds but of millions of worlds and yet we see men are not so liberall to the poore as they must needs be if your objection were of force and that there were the same proportion betweene earthly and heavenly things as there is between earthly things compared with one another If keeping the Commandements be as easy as to spend a penny for gaining thousands of pounds how comes it that so few keepe and so many breake them which scarcely any Christian would yea in some sense could do if your case did hold no less in heaveÌ„ly things theÌ„earthly How could the speciall Grace of the Holy Ghost be necessary for keeping the commandements as in the introduction we shewed if it be as easy to keepe them as to spend a penny for gayning thousands of pounds How comes that pious woman in the Gospell to be so highly commended by God incarnate for offering a mite if it be so very easy to forgoe things present vpon hope of a reward after this life 112 But let vs alter your case a litle and vest it with some particular circumstances For example that you had but one or very few pence and apprehended them to be necessary for present expences as worldly men conceyue all they haue to be too litle for their occasions that your life or health depended on it as Esau apprehended of the mease of potage for which he sold his inheritance that it must not be given once only but every day and hower as it happens in our endeavour to keepe the Commandements For The life of man vpon earth is a warfare Iob 7.1 let vs I say confider your case with these or the like circumstances and then answer whether it would appeare so easy as you made it Or can you proue by it so stated that any faith or any hope will serue to keepe the commandements which are hard to flesh and bloud which must continually be kept and therfore require an incessant Vigilancy and solicitude which oblige vs to loose fortunes health and life rather then committ any one sin You cannot but see the weakness of your Argument and the necessity yourselfe and all Christians haue to answer it 113. But there remaynes yet an Argument of higher consideration against you who discourse like yourselfe that is a Socinian and Pelagian as if the Commandements could be kept by the strength ordirection of reason alone or as if the will could of it selfe performe or avoyde whatsoever the vnderstanding dictates to be performed or avoyded without particular Grace conferred for the sacred Merits of our Blessed Saviour which is a Luciferian pride evacuating the fruite of his life and Death Wheras all Orthodox Christians who belieue the speciall Grace of the Holy Ghost to be necessary for true Obedience are therby assured that the will hath not of it selfe force to follow or fly whatsoever the vnderstanding proposes to be embraced or avoyded and consequently it is no good Argument The vnderstanding directs vs to do this Therfor our will may do it without the particular Grace of God which if it be necessary to the will for working it must also be necessary in the vnderstanding for Believing with a supernaturall Divine Assent without which God doth not giue Grace to the will for keeping the Commandements which holds particularly in your Principle that Faith is the cause of Charity and then if the effect be aboue the force of nature much more the cause must be so Morover if Faith be but probable and consequently only naturall which sequele I haue proved aboue it cannot be a proportionable meanes to supernaturall Eternall Happynesse and so you must hold that even the Beatificall Vision is but naturall which if it be how will you moue men with your specious but empty words to keepe hard wayes Psam 16. V. 4. for an End meerly naturall and proportioned to a probable and changeable faith which may proue false
Apostle admonish vs 2. Pet 1.10 to labour the more that by good works you may make sure your vocation And what is this but to diminish in vs even the feare of Hell and increase our hope of Heaven For the greater confidence we haue to be saved the less feare we conceyue of being damned Doth not S. John say Ep 1. Cap 4. V. 18. Charity casteth out feare 3. Againe it is to be wondered that any Protestant can object to vs the Doctrine of Indulgences as overlarge and taking away the feare of Purgatory and so at an easy rate redeeming the temporall punishment which remaynes due to our finnes after the fault or guilt is pardoned since they deny that any such payne remaynes after the sin is forgiven which in the opinyon of many of them is forgiven by one Act of Faith firmely believing that it is forgiven 4. So many conditions are required for gayning Indulgences that we cannot be certaine therof without particular Revelation and so still we haue just cause to feare purgatory and tremble at the consideration of Gods secret judgments To omitt divers other conditions necessary for gaining indulgences one is that we be in state of Grace of which none can be sure in this life nor that he hath so perfect sorrow that it is effectuall and incompatible with any affection to any least Veniall sinne and yet the temporall punishment due to sin can never be forgiven till the guilt be perfectly cancelled I say nothing of the pious and penall works which are wont to be appointed for gaining indulgences as confessing communicating fasting praying visiting Churches pilgrimages giving Almes and other holy exercises wherby God is glorifyed our neighbour edifyed and our soules improved in vertue 85. So that it is not so easy to obtayne the effect of indulgences nor are they so cheape as some out of ignorance or malice are pleased to imagine yea and that the Pope gives pardon for all sins not only past but also to come which is a shameless vntruth and falfly layes on vs that aspersion which truly belongs to Protestants who teach that not only sins past or present but also all sinnes to come are forgiven by Baptisme Kemmit In Exam Concill Part 2. Tit de Baptismo Pag 80. saith Papists haue fayned that the grace of Baptisme avayles only for remission of sinnes past or for remission of those which are found in a man at the tyme of Baptisme Calvin Instit L. 4. C. 15. § 3. We must in no wise beleue that Baptisme is conferd only for tyme past so that for new sins into which we fall after Baptisme there must be sought other new remedyes for pardon by I know not what other Sacraments as if the force therof Baptisme were worne out But we are to believe that whensoever we are baptized we are washt and purged for our whole life As often therfor as we shall fall into sin we must renew the memory of Bapisme and by that remēbrance our soule is to be armed that it be always certaine and secure that our sins are forgiven And § 4. As if for sooth Baptisme it self were not a Sacrament of repentance And seing this Repentance is commanded to vs for our whole life the force also of Baptisme must be extended as farr Perkins in Serie Causar Cap 33. sayth In Baptisme being once administred remission is givē not only of sins past but also present and to be committed through the whole tyme of our life Sanchius in sua Confessione C. 15. Baptisme is not given for remission only of Originall sin or sins past but of all for our whole life Is not this every easy and larg indulgence and an encouragement to all sin for which so facil a remedy is prepared even before they be committed Doth not this indeed take away the feare not of Purgatory but of Hell Which feare of Hell you do very strangely affirme to be taken away by the Doctrine of Purgatory but bring not any reason to proue it and it is certaine no shadow of reason can be brought Purgatory is ordayned to pay the temporall punishment due after the guilt of sin is forgiven In Hell eternall torments are to be indured for deadly sin not repented in this life Now what consequence is this One feares the bitterness of payne to be indured in purgatory though he be sure of salvation if ever he come to that place Therfor he feares not Hell the punishment of deadly sinnes which he is guilty to haue committed and is not certaine whether they be forgiven which certainty alone can take away the feare of Hell neither can the feare of Purgatory affoard any such certainty Contrarily one should rather make ād approue this consequē He that feares the lesser punishment or evill is apt much more to feare the greater Therfor he who feares Purgatory will much more fear Hell vnless he be sure to dy in state of Grace of which none can be sure in this life without some particular Revelation and the feare of Purgatory and Hell may well consist togeather as their Causes or objects haue no repugnance to witt I may be adjudged to Purgatory because I hope to die in state of Grace And I am not sure but I may be condemned to Hell because I cannot know whether I shall die free from deadly sin both which judgments of our vnderstanding may cause proportionably just feare in our will the one of Purgatory the other of Hell If a malefactour be doubtfull whether be shal be condemned to death or onlie to some other milder punishment for example the Gallyes or perpetuall imprisonment or the like may he not feare both death and other punishments till his doubt be cleared Which cannot be cleared in this life in order to be adjudged to Purgatory or Hell Protestants are they indeed who take away all feare of Purgatory by denying it and of Hell by their pretended certaine Faith that they are predestinate to eternall Happyness which certaine Faith must needs exclude all feare of the contrary 86. The want you say of that devotion which the frequent hearing of the offices vnderstood might happily beget in them the want of that instruction and edification which it might afford them may very probably hinder the salvation of many which otherwise might haue been saved But by this manner of arguing what may not be proved or disproved if first one will begg the question and suppose vs to be in errour and then vpon remote consequences rather fetch 't than found and wilde conjectures and panick feares inferr I know not what dangers In such manner as if men were to leade their life according to such a way of direction they could never be free from inextricable perplexityes and run hazard of loosing either their witts or soules We are in matters concerning our soules to governe our selves by such Rules as God hath revealed and not by vncertaine conditionall hidden events and which if we be left
alledging some passages of the Old and by alledging them to a certaine purpose they interpret and declare them to signify that for which they alledge them are not alwayes so cleare in every respect as that they may not require some Interpretation or Explication as we see performed by Holy Fathers and Interpreters of scripture who somtyme find difficulty even in fynding in the Old Testament what is cited out of it and we have heard out of a Protestant Doctour that The Apostles and divine Writers bring the same Testimony to divers purposes which shewes that every interpretation doth not adequate the sense yea since some Protestants hold that the same Text of Scripture cannot admit severall true and different senses as Fulk in his Confutation of Purgatory Pag 151. and Willet in his Synopsis Pag 26. they must aknowledg great difficulty in the interpretation of the same places to â—â—vers purposes as Divine Writers haue done and will be forced to giue some interpretation or declaration of those very different interpretations which Canonicall Writers gaue of those Texts of the Old Testament Thus your Arguments being clearly confuted I must put you in mynd of some Points on which I belieue you did not reflect and which will proue that it is not Char Main but yourself who giue a thing with one hand and take it away with the other 186. In your first Answer to an Objection which you make against yourself Pag 55 N. 8. you say God might giue a writing the attestation of perpetuall Miracles that it is a Rule of Faith and the word of God This you giue heer and yet you take it away in your Answer to your Third Motiue to be a Roman Catholike where you say the Bible hath bene confirmed with those supernaturall and divine Meracies which were wrought by our Saviour Christ and his Apostles and add It seemes to me no strang thing that God in his Iustice should permit sometrue Miracles to be wrought to delude them who haue forged so many as apparently the professours of the Roman Doctrine haue to abuse the world The same you expressly deliver Pag 379. N. 69 Now if even true Miracles may be wrought to delude any sort of people certainly they might haue been wrought to delude the Jewes who despised and impugned the Miracles of our Saviour Christ and his Apostles and denyed Christ to be the true Messias and forged false witnesses to put Him to death and discredit his Doctrine Nay what People or what single Person can be sure that their sinnes haue not deserved such a punishment Every deadly sinne vnrepented will certainly be punished with eternall torments which is the greatest evill that can be imagined or rather so great that it cannot be imagined by any mortall man and therfor much more may every such sinne be justly punished by permitting true Miracles to be wrought to delude the sinner if once that be granted which you affirme How then could our Saviour say John 10.38 If you will not belieue me belieue the workes Or doth not this open a way to affirme that the Miracles of Christ and his Apostles haue beene wrought to delude men And finally to come close to our purpose how could God giue any certaine attestation by any Miracle that Scripture is the word of God if true Miracles may be done to delude men And how do you say in your Answer to your sayd Third Motiue to be a Roman Catholike The Bible de facto hath bene confirmed with those Supernaturall and Divine Miracles which were wrought by our Saviour Christ and his Apostles Is not this with one hand to giue Scripture the prerogatiue of being the word of God and with the other to take it away In the meane tyme I challeng all the enemyes of the Roman Church to shew any one Miracle-forged and approved by Her and yourself know that she censures with excommunication broachers of false Miracles as Charity Maintayned Part 1. Chap. 3. N. 9. shewes and you in your Answer deny it not it being notorious to the whole world that such forgers are most severely punished in Catholique contryes 187. In another respect also you giue and take away Here you tell vs that God might giue scripture the Attestation of perpetuall Miracles that it is the word of God and in your Answer to your third Motiue as I sayd even now you say that the scripture hath bene confirmed with those innumerous supernaturall and Divine Miracles which were wrought by our Saviour Christ and his Apostles If this be so we must inferr that as the particular contents of scripture for example the Incarnation Life Death Resurtection and Ascension of our Saviour Christ c being confirmed by Miracles became materiall Objects of our Faith so seing you confesse this Truth The Bible is the word of God to be proved by the Miracles of Christ and his Apostles it followes evidently that it is a materiall Object of Faith no less then the particular Truths which it contaynes Andthis your selfe affirme in this very place in your Second Answer where you say by Scriptures not all things absolutely may be proved which are to be believed For it can never be proved by Scripture to a gainsayer that there is a God or that the Book called Scripture is the word of God Is not this to say that one of the things which cannot be proved by Scripture and yet are to be believed is that Scripture is the word of God Therfor we are to belieue that Scripture is the word of God and what is this but to be a materiall Object of our Faith This I say you teach here But in other places you affirme and take care to proue that Scripture is not one of the materiall Objects of our Faith as shall appeare in my next Chapter 188. You do also overthrow what we haue heard you say that Miracles may be wrought to delude men by the contrary doctrine delivered Pag 144. N. 31. in these words It is impossible that God should lye and that the Eternall Truth should set his hand and seale to the Confirmation of a falshood or of such Doctrine as is partly true and partly false The Apostles Doctrine was thus confirmed therfor it was intirely true and in no part either false or vncertaine But how is this true if the Apostles might haue bene permitted to worke even true Miracles to delude men or how is not their Doctrine vncertaine if you cannot be certaine but that their Miracles were wrought to such an end of deluding men How many wayes are you fallen into that which you objected to your Adversary as direct Boyes-play Giving taking away saying vnsaying and in a vvord contradicting yourself not in any by-point or incident speech as that was which without reason you taxed in Charity Mâ—â—tayned but in a matter of greatest moment as is the certainty and belief of Holy Scripture one of the prime Objects of Christian Faith 189. I knovv not
vnless we belieue it finally and for itself divers verityes contained in scripture shall not be materiall objects of our Faith and in particular all those of which S. John speakes Cap 20. V. 30.31 Many other signes also did Jesus in the sight of his Disciples which are not written in this Booke And these are written that you may belieue that Jesus is Christ the Son of God and that belieuing you may haue life in his name Those Miracles then were written not for themselves but as a meanes to attayne the knowledg of this Truth Jesus is Christ the Son of God and even the belief of this Truth is referred to a further end that believing you may haue life in his name And 1. Pet. 1.9 we read more vniversally that the end of our Faith is the salvation of our soules Besides this Pag 217. and 218. N. 49. you say Is it not manifest to all the world that Christians of all Professions do agree with one consent in the belief of all those Bookes of scripture which were not doubted of in the Ancient Church without danger of damnation Nay is it not apparent that no man at this tyme. can without hypocrisy pretend to belieue in Christ but of necessity he must doe so Seeing he can haue no reason to belieue in Christ but he must haue the same to belieue the scripture 4. Sir Are you a Christian of any profession If you be then it must be manifest to all the world that you must agree with others in the belief of scripture Therfor scripture is one part or Object of your belief and this as you profess vnder paine of damnation and consequently it is not only an object but a necessary object to be believed and you cannot without hypocrisy pretend to belieue in Christ but of necessity you must doe so that is belieue scripture seing you can haue no reason to in Christ but you must haue the same to believe the Scripture If then you teach as you doe that one is not bound to belieue Scripture but may reject it you must grant that by the same reason he may not belieue yea may reject Christ himself And now heare what you say Pag 116. N. 159. If a man should belieue Chistian Religion wholly and entirely and liue according to it such a man though he should not know or not belieue the Scripture to be a Rule of Faith no nor to be the word of God my opinyon is he may be saved and my reason is because he performes the entire condition of the new Covenant which is that we belieue the matter of the Gospell and not that it is contained in these or these Bookes So that the Bookes of Scripture are not so much the Objects of our Faith as the instruments of conveying it to our vnderstanding and not so much of the being of the Christian Doctrine as requisite to the well being of it Irenaeus tells vs of some barbarous Nations that believed the Doctrine of Christ and yet believed not the Scripture to be the word of God for they never heard of it and Faith comes by hearing But these barbarous people might be saved Therfor men might be saved without believing the Scripture to be the word of God much more without believing it to be a Rule and a perfect Rule of Faith Neither doubt I but if the Bookes of Scripture had beene proposed to them by the other parts of the Church where they had bene before receyved and had bene doubted of or even rejected by those barbarous Nations but still by the bare belief and practise of Christianity they might be saved God requiring of vs vnder paine of damnation only to belieue the verityes therin contayned and not the Divine Authority of the Bookes wherin they are contayned In some of these words you may perhaps seeme to speake ambiguously That the Scriptures are not so much the Objects of our Faith as the instruments of conveying it to our vndersting For not so much seemes to signify that they are the objects of our Faith in some degree but this very mincing of things shewes the absurdity of that wherin you are afrayd to declare your mynd plainly or if you belieue as your words seeme most to signify we must say that you hold scripture not to be a materiall Object of our Faith which must consist in indivisibili For if this truth scripture is the word of God be revealed it is no lesse absolutely and rigorously a materiall object of Faith then the verityes contayned in it If it be not revealed it is not only not so much but not at all an object of Faith But your other words neither doubt I but if the Books of Scripture had bene proposed to those barbarous people by the other parts of the church where they had bene before receyved and had bene doubted of or even rejected by them but still by bet bare belief and practise of Christanity they might be saved do either directly signify that scripture is absolutely no materiall Object of our faith nor a thing revealed by God or els cōtaine a most wicked doctrine or rather blasphemy that a truth revealed by God may be rejected which you cōfess is to giue God the ly And that finally this is your opinion scripture is not a materiall object of Faith appeares by your next N. 160 Pag. 117. Where you say This discourse whether it be rationall and concluding or no I submitt to better judgment For you speake of the discourse which I haue now sett downe out of your N. 159. Neither can you avoide this absurdity by saying one may reject scripture if it be not sufficiently propounded For you put the very case that it should be proposed by the other parts of the church where they had bene before receyved As also you expressly put a difference between the verityes contained in scripture ād scripture which contaynes them saying God requires of vs vnderpayne of damnation only to belieue the verityes therin contained and not the divine Authority of the bookes wherin they are contayned and yet it is a thing granted by all and evident of it self that none cā be obliged to belieue the verityes contayned in scripture or any other verityes vnless they be sufficiently proposed and therfor if you will make good the difference you put between scripture and the contents therof and not contradict yourself you must confess that one is not obliged to belieue scripture or the divine Authority therof but may reject it although it be sufficiently proposed yea it will also follow that the contents therof may be rejected the first and last and totall knowledge wherof Protestants pretend to receyue only from the written word For they cannot possibly conceaue any obligation to belieue the contents of scripture if first they be perswaded that they haue no obligation to belieue scripture it self from which alone they can come to know any such obligation And so protestant ministers
which I am bound to belieue the belief of both is necessary the one for it selfe the other for that other which is supposed to be necessary of it self as you say the belief of scripture is only for the belief of the contents Secondly if the reason for which I belieue a thing be not only true but also by the nature therof necessarily obliges me to belieue that thing which it proves in that event whersoever I find that reason I shall remaine obliged to belieue that Object which it proves This is our case For no Christian yea no man indued with reason can deny but that if I belieue an Object as testifyed by God I am obliged to belieue all other Truths so testifyed Now I pray you tell vs the reason for which at this tyme you hold yourself obliged to belieue the contents of scripture You must answer because they are revealed by God testifying the truth of them by many and great miracles Then I aske for what reason do you belieue Scripture to be the word of God If you answer because God hath testifyed it to be such by those Miracles which the Apostles wrought to proue their words and writings to be infallible and inspired by the Holy Ghost then I inferr that as you are bound to belieue the contents of Scripture so you are also obliged to belieue Scripture it self seing you haue the same reason to belieue that God hath testifyed both the Scripture and the contents therof If you belieue Scripture to be the word of God not for the Divine Testimony for which you belieue the contents but for some other Reason then your saying There is not alwayes an equall necessity for the belief of those things for the belief wherof there is an equall Reason was impertinent because for the belief of Scripture there is not the same reason for which you belieue the verityes therin contained and your other saying Pag. 218. N. 49 must be false that no man at this tyme can haue reason to belieue in Christ but he must haue the same to belieue the Scripture if it be true that you belieue not scripture for the same reason for which you belieue Christ and other mysteryes contained in it But let vs know indeed for what reasoÌ„ you belieue Scripture to be the word of God It seemes one may answer for you out of your Answer to your Third Motiue where you teach that the Bible hath bene confirmed with those supernaturall and Divine Miracles which were wrought by our Saviour Christ and the Apostles And Pag. 379. N. 69. you say following the Scripture I shall belieue that which vniversall never-failing Tradition assures me that it was by the admirable supernaturall worke of God confirmed to be the word of God If this be true how are not men obliged to belieue that which hath bene so confirmed Or for what other reason do you belieue the Truths contayned in Scripture as our Saviour His Incarnation Life Death Resurrection and other Mysteryes of Christian Faith but because they were confirmed by the admirable supernaturall workes of God wherby you expressly grant Scripture to haue bene confirmed to be the word of God You must therfor either grant that there is a necessity to belieue Scripture to be the word of God or deny that there is a necessity to belieue the contents therof And then further for our present Question you must either grant that Scripture is a materiall Object of Faith or deny that the verityes therin contayned are such an Object vnless you will confess yourself to be a very strang and vnreasonable man to belieue the matter of the bookes of Scripture and not the Authority of the bookes and therfor since you profess not to be obliged to belieue these may not one haue reason to vse your owne words to feare that you do not thinke yourself obliged to belieue that Nay is it not apparent still I vse your owne words that you at this tyme cannot without hypocrisy pretend an obligation to belieue in Christ but of necessity you must acknowledg an obligation to belieue the Bookes of scripture seing you can haue no reason to thinke you are obliged to belieue in Christ but must haue the same to belieue the scripture and if your belief of the contents of scripture or of obligation to belieue them be vnreasonable it cannot proceed from the particular motion of the Holy Ghost nor be an Act of divine Faith And I beseech you reflect that here there is not only the same reason for the truth of things in themselves but also for our obligation to belieue them namely the divine Testimony which Point if you obserue you cannot but see how impertinent your example was about believing there was such a man as King Henry which you say one is not bound to belieue and that Iesus Christ suffered vnder Pontius Pilate which is a Truth set downe in a writing confirmed by Miracles to be the word of God and consequently to deny the Mysteryes contained in that booke were to reject a thing confessed to be witnessed by God And is not a man obliged to belieue whatsoever he knowes to be witnessed by God I sayd your example is impertinent but I must add that it is also false vnchristian and blasphemous to say as you doe We haue I belieue as great reason to belieue there was such a man as Henry the eight King of England as that Iesus Christ suffered vnder Pontius Pilate Haue you as great reason to belieue the Chronicles of England and the Testimony of men as to belieue the word of God 10. Morover though it import nothing to our present Question whether or no you speake true in saying there is not alwayes an equall necessity for the belief of those things for the belief wherof there is an equall reason yet perhaps you will not easily make it good if there be perfectly and entirely the same reason and of the same kind for both of them For if I conceaue the same reason for both if I belieue the one I may belieue the other nay I haue a necessity to belieue it so far as I cannot belieue the contrary as it is impossible from the same premises belieued to be the same to inferr contrary or contradictory conclusions If perhaps you answer that when one believes a thing for a reason which he sees to be the self same for another he cannot dissent from that other yet he may suspend his vnderstanding from any positiue assent to it which he cannot doe when there is a command to belieue it This answer will not serue your turne but first it is against your self who Pag. 195. N. 11. say to Cha Ma your distinction between Points necessary to be believed and necessary not to be disbelieved is a distinction without a difference there being no point to any man at any tyme in any circumstances necessary not to be dâ—sbelieved but it is to the same man at
errour should chance to creepe into it the Church can never make vse of that errour And therfor to treate here at large of this particular Translation would be a labour both fruitless and needless divers Catholique Divines having learnedly done it and every one may goe to Bellarmin de Uerbo Dei Lib 2. Cap 9.10.11.12.13.14 where he answers all the Objections of Heretikes 42. To exaggerate the vncertainty of Baptisme and consequently of Absolution N. 64. you will needs suppose that A sew a More an Atheist or an Arian or any that believes not the Doctrine of the Trinity are not capable of having due intention for administring Baptisme which yet is very vntrue For such men as these notwithstanding their particular Errours may seriously intend to do as much as they can and as Christians are wont to doe in which case if they obserue the true Matter and Forme their Errours haue no influence into their intention but are wared and layd aside as if they were not at all For in effect their intention is this If Christian Religion be true or if this Action of Baptizing be of any valve I for my part intend to make of it the most and best I can Now this condition being true and subsisting it followes that that Action will be a true baptizing This me thinkes you should not deny who were knowen to be an Anti-trinitarian and Arian and yet I conceyve you wold be loath that Catholikes or Protestāts should belieue that if you baptized any the Baptisme was invalid and of necessity to be repeated The like I say of Absolution which may be valid though the Priest be in his mynd an Heretike vpon such conditions as I expressed concerning the Administration of Baptisme You say N. 66. that our Rule is Nihil dat quod non habet which is true in some cases but we haue no such generall Rule A Catechume for example or any other may validly Baptise though himself be not Baptized And no wonder seing the Minister is but the instrument of Allmighty God and it is not required that an instrument haue in it self all the perfections conditions or qualityes which are communicated to the effect although in our present case the Minister immediatly only applyes the Matter and forme and makes his intention all which is in his power to doe thoughe be not Baptized 43. You say N. 68. That according to our Principles When we haue done as much as God requires for our salvation yet can we by no meanes be secure but that we may haue the ill luck to be damned which is to make salvation a matter of chance and which a man may faile of not only by an ill life but by ill fortune 44. This I haue answered already that to be secure is a happyness of the next not of this world where he who pretends to be secure is in most danger not to be safe And besides I must apply here what I noted aboue That it is one thing whether or no a Sacrament be valid and another whether the defect of that invalidity may be supplyed by some other Meanes If the nullity be of a Sacrament the effect wherof is not necessary to salvation it is cleare that one may be saved though the Sacrament be invalid The difficulty is in those Sacraments which as Divines speake are necessary necessitate medij being ordained to conferr the first justifying Grace and forgiue deadly sin incompatible with Grace Of this condition are the Sacraments of Pennance and Baptisme 45. As for the Sacrament of Pennance the Doctrine of Catholikes is not subject to cast men vpon perplexityes as you pretend nor to make salvation a matter of chance which a man may fayle of not only by an ill life but by ill fortune For we teach that sin alone is the cause of damnation and neither ill fortune nor any thing els If one in state of deadly sin were taken out of this world by a suddain death or fall out of his wits so vnexpectedly that he could not repent he shall be damned not for any new sin committed by omitting to repent which was not in his power to doe in those circumstances but for his former sins committed and never forgiven because never repented as if one having committed a robery endeavour to fly but faile of his purpose he shall be executed for his robery not for failing to escape though he had not bene executed if he had not bene taken in his endeavour to escape And therfor you say very vntruly that according to our Principles when we haue done as much as God requires for our salvation yet we may haue the all luck to be damned For according to our Principles and belief God requires for our salvation that we do not sin but that we keepe his commandements which by the assistance of his Grace all may obserue and if we do so we are very secure 46. But you will say if one haue sinned and afterward do as much as God requires of him for his salvation he may haue the ill lucke to be damned Answer God hath provided Meanes sufficient on his part and if by accident or malice of men they haue not their effect that defect cannot be imputed to God nor shall ever any man be damned except for sin alone This yourself must grant For you belieue or pretend to belieue that there are some Points of Faith so Fundamentall and indispensably necessary to be believed that they are as you say minimum vt sic without which none can hope for salvation Suppose then some Pastour or other vpon whom an vnlearned man might prudently rely and had no better meanes to informe himself should malitiouslly teach him an errour in those Fundamentall Articles or els say they were not necessary and that the vnlearned person believed his Pastour I aske what would you say in this case Can this poore man be saved without that Faith which is indispensably necessary to Salvation To say he can were to speake plaine contradictoryes that such a Faith were and were not necessary if he be damned will you inferr that when one hath done as much as God requires for his salvation yet he is not secure but may haue the ill lucke to be damned which say you is to make salvation a matter of chance and which a man may faile of not only by an ill life but by ill fortune If you answer That he is damned not for ignorance or errour caused by the malice of an other but for his owne sinnes and that God had provided meanes sufficient in themselves you make good what I sayd and must Answer your owne chiefe Objection against vs Or if you answer further That if he who fayled in not believing all Fundamentall Points had in his former life and Actions cooperated with Gods Grace His Divine Goodness would not haue fayld one way or other to giue him Direction and light without permitting him to be deceyved in a matter
regeneration Tit 3. And Baptisme is a meane or instrument by which is made the communication of Christs benefits For by Baptisme Christ cleanseth and sanctifyeth Ephes 5. Yea he saith expressly The testimonyes of Scripture are manifest which as they cannot be denyed so they ought not to be shifted of Ephes 5. Clensing her with the laver of water in the Word Joan 3. Vnless one he borne againe of water c. Act 22. Be Baptized and wash away thy sinnes 1. Pet 3. Speaknig of water c He sayth Baptisme being of the like forme of the Arke of Noë saveth vs. And he concludes These being most manifest tectimonyes which expressly ascribe Efficacy to Sacraments and declare what that Efficacy is are not to be perverted by tropes from their simple and native signisication which the proper signification of the words giveth and so the ancient Fathers haue vnderstood these testimonyes simply as they sound Behold the Doctrine of a chiefest Protestant proved out of Scripture and confessed to be the Doctrine of the Ancient Fathers interpreting Scriptures so as our Catholike Doctrine comes to be approved by Protestants by Scripture and by the Ancient Fathers and by Protestants interpreting Scripture all which Poynts are further taught by the Protestant Urbanus Regius In 1. Part Operum in Cathechismo minori Folio 105. confessing that the Scripture and the Authority of the ancient Church constraine him to belieue that children dying vnbaptized are damned The same Doctrine is delivered by Sarcerius ād by Confess Augustana The Protestants of Saxony and sundry other Protestant Writers as may be seene in the Tripl Cord Chap 20. Sect 4. Pag 456. 61. Now we may reflect First seing these Protestants for their Doctrine of the necessity of Baptisme rely vpon Scripture as indeed the words of Scripture are as cleare for this Point as any can be I would gladly know what certaine Ground you or any man can haue that so many learned Protestants to say nothing of all Fathers Antiquity and moderne Catholike Writters haue erred in this their Interpretation of Scripture Is it not your owne Rule That when men truly desirous to know the truth and of vpright meaning I hope you belieue Protestants to be such at least most of them differ about the sense of Scripture it is a signe that such places are not evident And seing we now treat of a Point which at least is necessary to be knowen whether or no it be necessary otherwise we cannot be assured that we want nothing necessary to salvation it followes that Scripture is not evident in all things necessary to be knowen and therfor we must haue recourse to a Living Judg. 2. Seing so many of those whom you call brethren teach our Catholique Doctrine whatsoever you object against vs makes no less against them 3. Your saying That Baptisme is a casuall thing and in the power of man to conferr though yet many learned Protestants hold Baptisme to be necessary is a prophane speech as if God had not a most particular Providence in disposing all rhings for the good of his Elect particularly in things necessary to salvation Why do you not likewise object against all Christians their making the salvation of every one depend on the preaching of the Gospell of which our Saviour spoke when he also commanded his Apostles to conferr Baptisme Matth 28.19 which you may also say is a casuall thing and in the power of man to doe or omitt as if God could not be sure how to order infallibly all events or effects vnless they fall out by necessity Nay I say more Our God is so good and desirous that all be saved that if men did strictly concurre and cooperate with his holy Providence and Grace in all occasions things would so fall out as that mediatè or immediatè proximè or remotè one way or other there would never want sufficient Meanes for infants to be baptized So farr is this matter from being a casuall thing And still we must consider that infants dying without baptisme are deprived of salvation not for the fault of those who omitted to Baptize them nor properly for want of Baptisme itself but for Originall sin once contracted and never abolished by that meanes and instrument which God hath appointed for that End and Effect as he might in his Justice haue left all Mankind in their sins without providing for them a Redeemer according to the proceeding which he held with the apostating Angells and therfore this Doctrine That children dying without Baptisme cannot be saved implyes no cruelty absurdity or strangeness to those who believe other Poynts of Christian Faith Especially if we consider that although they shall not enjoy felicity in Heaven yet they shall lead their life with much content by contemplation and also by considering that perhaps if their Creatour had granted them longer life yea and procured them to be baptized they might haue dyed in actuall deadly sinne and haue bene damned in Hell with Poena Damni Sensus both of being deprived of the beatificall Vision and of insufferable torments of sense and what greater absurdity is it that infants should Misse of salvation for want of intention in the Minister then if they had not bene in the occasion of not being baptized at all by reason of some other impediment And therfor I see no reason why we should for such cases of want of Intention in the Minister or of due Forme or Matter haue recourse to any extraordinary Meanes which should not be extraordinary but ordinary if God did provide it whensoever the infant is not baptized vpon whatsoever occasion or impediment and so indeed Baptisme should never be absolutely necessary to salvation Besides seing there can be no certainty of extraordinary meanes the matter will still remaine doubtfull and objections must be answered some other waie 62. But you will object That at least we differ from Protestants in suspending the salvation of infants on the Baptizers Intention 63. Answer I haue shewed that some learned Protestants of chief note require the same intention which we doe and also that every iudicious man will certainly judg that there is no danger of invalidity in Baptisme for want of intention but rather in respect of the Matter or Forme and yet not only the Protestant Church of England teaches that the Matter and Forme are necessary for Baptisme but also divers other Protestants deliver the same Doctrine as may be seene in The Triple Cord Pag 457. and the thing is evident of it self to every one who vnderstands the termes of Matter and Forme If men may be damned for their Actuall sinnes though they be supposed to be invincibly ignorant of necessary or fundamentall points of Faith as Potter confesses why may not infants be deprived of Heaven for originall sinne though theire want of Baptisme be not immediatly voluntary to any 64. Your last Objection N. 69. is against Our making he Reall Presence of Christ in
will serue for an Answer to this very Objection of resistibility or irresistibility which you make against vs who defend the infallibility of the Church and absolute certaine Assistance that she shall never erre in matters belonging to Faith and Religion But to returne 80. Seing the Church cannot perish she cannot faile in Fundamentall Points and seing also you confess that it is impossible to determine in particular what Poynts be Fundamentall and we see other Protestants could never yet agree in giving a Catalogue of such Points we must either belieue that she can faile in no Points at all or else we cannot be sure that she failes not in Fundamentall Articles This granted I go a step further and say that seing in the ordinary course of Gods Providence we are not taught by immediate Revelations Enthusiasmes or the like but by the Ministery of the Church it followes that God hath indued and adorned her with such Prerogatives and Notes that all who will cooperate with Gods Grace may attaine the knowledg of Her and be able to joyne themselves to Her Communion and abandon all other false Synagogues or Congregations Otherwise it is all one to make the true Church invisible or vndiscernable from other Communityes and to say there is no true Church at all in order to any fruit which faithfull people can take or receiue from Her and infallibility in Fundamentall Points which even Protestants grant Her will serue to no purpose at all It is your owne saying Pag 105. N. 139. No Church can possibly be fit to be a Gaide but only a Church of some certaine denomination And what comfort can it be to our soules as Whitaker sayd That Christs Church never shall faile if we cannot know where that Church is nor that there be Meanes and Notes to shew her vnto vs Neither can any be obliged to obey her Commands follow her Doctrine heare her preachers frequent her Sacraments c vnless they can be sure to find her Rom 10. Vers 14.15 How shall they belieue him whom they haue not heard And how shall they heare without a Preacher But how shall they preach vnless they be sent Behold preaching in the ordinary course necessary to Faith and lawfull Mission necessary to Preaching All which can belong only to the visible true Church For this cause Ephes 4. There must be in the Church Pastors to governe and Doctors to teach And Esay 62.6 We reade vpon thy walles Jerusalem I haue appointed watchmen all the day and all the night for ever they shall not hold their peace If they hold not their peace they must haue auditours who must be knowne and these must know where their Preachers are to be found Even Calvin Lib 4. Inst Chap 1. Sect 4. Saith that the knowledg of the visible Church is not only profitable but necessary for vs and that we are to be kept vnder her custody and government all the dayes of our life our weakness requiring that we be her Disciples through the whole course of our life And having Sect 5. alledged the words Eph 4.11 He adds We see that God who could make men perfect in a moment yet will not do it but by the education of the Church God inspires Faith but by Meanes of the Gospell as Paul tell vs Rom 10.17 That Faith comes by hearing Although the Power of God be not tyed to outward meanes yet he hath tyed vs to the ordinary way of teaching Wherby we see that even those who talke so much of the private Spirit yet profess that it is not given without the Ministery of the Church as I saied above Fulk also in his Answer to the counterfaite Catholike Pag 100. sayes of Preachers Truth cannot be continued in the world but by their Ministery And in Propositions and Principles disputed in the vniversity of Geneva Pag 845. The Ministery is an esseÌ„tiall mark of the true Church Mr. Deering in his Reading vpon the Epistle to the Hebrewes Chap 3. Lecture 15. sayth Salvation springeth in preaching of the Gospell and is shut vp againe with the ceasing of it And Ibid Lectur 16. fine Take away preaching you take away Faith Cartwright in his second Reply Part 1. Pag 381. circa medium maintayneth that the people perish where there be no preachers although there be Readers And that by bare reading ordinarily there is no salvation no Faith Let Protestants marke this If Scripture were of itself evident in all Points of Faith it were sufficient to reade it and people need not perish for want of preaching but Faith and salvation might be had without it by only reading Scripture 81. Out of what hath bene sayd these important Corollaryes are manifestly deduced First That the true Church which all ought to seeke and may find if they indeavour aÌ„d be not waÌ„ting to Gods Grace is a visible Congregation which may be distinguished from all other aÌ„d so come to be of one denominatioÌ„ For it is evideÌ„t our Saviour sayd not of false pastours aÌ„d prelates he that heares you heares me Luc 10.16 nor were false Preachers sent by him nor did he appoynt Pastours Doctors c. to be followed in a false Church nor did he appoynt watchmen c. in Babylon but in Jerusalem nor can the sayings of Protesâ—nts which I haue â—ited aboue be vnderstood either of a false Church or of a true Church as it were in generall and in abstracto without being possible to be knowen in particular But they must be vnderstood of a true Church with relation to vs and the salvation of particular persons for which end our B Saviour did constitute and doth preserue Her What els â—â—n Calvins words signify That it is necessary for vs to know her That the keepes and defends vs That we must be her Discrples That our of her â—osome no remission of sins can be hoped That although God could yet he will not bring Vs to perfection but by the education of the Church That he inspires Faith by the instrument of the Gospell and Meanes of hearing and that God hath tyed vs to this ordinary way And what els can Fulk and other Protestants meane For it were but foolery to say That an vnknowne Ministery is an essentiall Mark of the true Church Or that salvation springeth in a preaching not known where to be found and is shut vp with ceasing of it Or that truth cannot be continued in the world without the ministery of Preachers Or of any such sayings 82. Secondly It followes that seing there must alwayes be a knowne particular Church which cannot perish that is in your Principles cannot erre in Fundamentall Points that knowen Church must be infallible absolutely in all Points Fundamentall and not Fundamentall For if we did conceiue she could erre in any one Point of Faith we could not rely on her Authority in any other which you also grant as we haue lately shewed and Pag 105. N. 139. you speake directly to our present
pretended Bishop I meane for the consequence which he makes that if Episcopacie be Juris Divini it is damnable to impugne it and with Molin agrees Dr. Taylor of Episcopacy teaching § 46. That to separate from the Bishop makes a man at least a Schismatike and § 47. That it is also Heresy And in his Liberty of Prophesying Epist Dedic Pag 32.33 having sayd that the Lutheran Churches the Zuinglians and the Calvinists reject Episcopacy he adds which the Primitive Church would haue made no doubt to haue called Heresy More of this and of the Notes of the Church may be seene in Charity Maintayned Part 1. Chap 9. this not being a place to treat at large of these matters It is sufficient for our present purpose to demonstrate that we are no way guilty of walking in a Circle Only it will be necessary to note here two Points 5. First That the Arguments of credibility fall primarily vpon the Church not vpon Scripture which confirmes what I sayd that the Apostles were not Infallible because they wrote but their writings deserue credit because the writers were Infallible Thus in the Old Law Moyses gained authority by working Miracles and by other Arguments of credibility wherby the people accepted him as a Man sent by God to declare his word and will and in such manner as they were sure to belieue God by giving credit to Moyses They believed our Lord and Moyses his servant Exod 14.31 and 19.9 and ther vpon they belieâ—ed the Scripture which he wrote and proposed as the Infallible word of God and by it other particulars even concerning Moyses himself In the New Law the Apostles proved and settled the Authority of their Persons before their writings could be prudently receaved as Diuine or the Word of God The Reason therof is because the Motives or Arguments of credibility immediatly make that credible of which they are effects which immediatly manifest their cause Now the Motives to embrace Religion agree immediatly to the Church or Persons and not to writings and so Marc Vlt it is sayd These signes shall follow those who belieue And therfore though there were no Scriptures if the Church did still remaine these motives would also remaine for example Sanctity of life Miracles conversion of Nations Martirdomes Victory over all enemyes the name Catholique c Which could not agree to Scripture though we did falsely suppose that it did remayne and the Church perish For no Writing is capable of Sanctity of life Succession of Bishops c yea the Scripture can haue no efficacy vnless it be first believed to be the word of God and it must be beholding to the Church for such a Testimony and therfor whatsoever perfections or attributes may seeme to belong immediatly to the Scripture must depend on the Church as the Scripture itself doth in order to our believing it to be the word of God But contrarily the Perfections or priviledges of the Church are independent of Scripture as the Church itself is which was before Scripture And here it is also to be considered that we haue no absolute certainty that the Apostles ever wrought any particular Miracle to proue immediatly that Scripture is the word of God but we are sure they did it mediatè by gaining Authority to their Persons and then to their writings And thus you say in your Answer to the Direction N. 43. That the Bible hath bene confirmed with those Miracles which were wrought by our Saviour and the Apostles But now if we be obliged to believe the Scripture in all things by reason of Arguments which bind vs to belieue it to be the word of God we must also be obliged to belieue the Church in whatsoever she proposes as Divine Verityes since the Arguments and Reasons of credibility do more immediatly proue the true Church than they proue Scripture 6. The second thing to be observed is That when we are obliged to receave some Persons as messengers of God appointed and assisted by him to deliver Divine Truths as the Apostles were we are bound to belieue them in all things which they propound for such Truths For as I haue often sayd if they might erre in some things of this nature we could not belieue theÌ„ in any other thing for their sole Authority as all coÌ„fess of Scripture that being once delivered by meÌ„ of the forsayd Authority as the word of God it must be receyved as vniversally true in all and every least passage though the Apostles did not confirme by seve rall Miracles the matter of every particular Text and yet every one is an object of Faith nor of every particular Truth which they spoke but it was sufficient that people did and were obliged to receaue them as men who by commission from God taught the true way to eternall Happynes and therfore were to be credited in all particulars which they did propose 7. Out of this true Ground I inferr That it cannot be sayed without injury to Gods Church to the Apostles and God himself that when men of our Church worke Miracles and produce other Reasons to proue that they preach the true Faith and Religion to gentils Jewes Turks or Heritikes those Miracles are not sufficient Proofes of all that which our Church propounds as Divine Truth but of some particular Points for example not of Purgatory Prayer to Saints Reall Presence c. but of such Christian verityes as Protestants belieue with vs. This cannot be sayd For it is evident that the same might haue bene objected against the Apostles to wit that God intended to proue by their Miracles only some verityes believed by Jewes or Heretikes and not every one of the particular Mysteryes of Christian Religion Neither can it be sayd that the Preachers of our Catholique Church when they convert Nations doe worke Miracles to bring them to I know not what Faith in generall or in abstracto or an Idea Platonica but to the Catholique Roman Religion which if it were false God in his Goodness could never permitt so many and great Miracles to be wrought and other so evident Arguments of credibility to be produced that people must be obliged to receiue such Preachers as Teachers of the true way to Heaven as he could not permit the Apostles to worke Miracles intending that they should be trusted in some not in all Points For this generall Reason taken from Gods Goodness and providence is the same in all who bring the like Arguments of Credibility as our Church never wants Arguments like to those whereby the Apostles made good their Authority Besides if the sayd Objection were of force men de facto can haue no certainty that Scripture is the word of God for all Points contayned therin because it will be sayd that although Miracles were wrought to proue that the Bible is the word of God they might be vnderstood not to confirme every passage or Text but only some Truths contayned therin And likewise according to
this Objection or invention no certainty can be had what the Apostles or other Preachers teach or teach not with infallibility Nor will there remaine any meanes to convert men to Christianity For every one may say that not the Poynt which he apprehends to be false was confirmed by Miracles but those other Articles which he conceaves to be true And so no Heretike can be convinced by Scripture which he will say is not the word of God except for his opinions and so nothing will be proved out of Scripture even for those things which are contayned in it Neither will anie thing remayne certaine except a generall vnprofitable impracticable Notion that the Apostles taught and the Scripture contaynes some things revealed by God without knowing what they are in particular which would be nothing to the purpose and therfore as good as nothing 8. But yet dato non concesso That the Apostles and the Church are to be believed only in such particular Points as are proved by Miracles c we say that innumerable Miracles haue bene wrought in consirmation of those particular Points wherin we disagree from Protestants as may be seene in Brierly Tract 2. Chap 3 Sect 7. subdiv 1. For example of Prayer to Saints out of S. Austine Civit L. 22. C. 8. Worship of Reliques out of S. Gregory Nazian S. Austine S. Hierom S. Basil Greg Turonen Theodoret the Image of Christ Reall presence Sacrifice of Christs Body Purgatory Prayer for the Dead The great vertue of the signe of the Crosse Holy water Lights in the Church Reservation of the Sacrament Holy Chrisme Adoration of the crosse Confession of sins to a Priest and extreme Vnction which miracles Brierly proves by irrefragable Testimonyes of most creditable Authors and Holy Fathers wherof if any Protestant doubt he can do no lesse for the salvation of his soule than examine the matter either by the 〈◊〉 of this Authour or of other Catholique Writers and not only by 〈…〉 clamours and calumnyes of Protestant Preachers in their Ser 〈…〉 Writers in their Bookes And let him take with him for his 〈…〉 thefe considerations 1. That these Miracles were wrought and testifyed before any Protestant appeared in the world And therfore could not be fayned or recorded vpon any particular designe against them and their Heresyes 2. That even Protestants acknowledg the Truths of such Miracles Whitaker cont Duraeum Lib 10. sayth I do not thinke those Miracles vaine which are reported to haue bene done at the monuments of Saints as also Fox and Godwin acknowledg Miracles wrought by S. Austine the Monke sent by S. Gregory Pope to convert England through Gods hand as may be seene in Brierly Tract 1. Sect 5. and yet it is confessed by Protestants and is evident of itself that he converted vs to the Roman Faith But not to be long I referr the Reader to Brierly in the Index of whose Booke in the word Miracles he will find full satisfaction if he examine his allegations that in every Age since our Saviour Christ there haue bene wrought many ad great Miracles both by the Professors of the Roman Faith and expressly in confirmation of it This I say and avouch for a certaine truth that whatsoever Heretikes can object against Miracles wrought by Professors of our Religion and in proofe if it may be in the same manner objected against the Miracles of our B. Saviour and his Apostles and that they cannot impugne vs but joyntly they must vndermine all Christianity 9. To these two considerations let this Third be added that it is evidently delivered in Scripture Miracles to be certaine Proofes of the true Faith and Religion as being appointed by God for that end Exod 4.1 when Moyses sayd They will not belieue me nor heare my voice God gaue him the Gift of Miracles that they might belieue God had spoken to him 3. Reg 17. Vers 24. That woman whose sonne Elias had raised to life sayd Now in this I haue knowen that thou art a man of God and the word of our Lord in thy mouth is true Christ Matt 11. V. 3.4.5 being asked whether he was the Messias proved himself to be such by the Miracle which he wrought The blind see the lame walke the lepers are made cleane the deafe heare the dead rise againe Which words signify that Miracles are not only effectuall but necessary to proue the truth of a Doctrine contrary to what was receyved before Yea Joan 5.36 Miracles are called a greater testimony thē John Marc vlt they preached every where our Lord working withall and consirming the Word with signes that followed 2. Cor 12. V. 12. The signes of my Apostleship haue beene done vpon you in all patience and wonders and mighty deeds Hebr. 2.4 God withall testifying by signes and wonders and divers Miracles But why do I vrge this Point You clearly confess it Pag 144. N. 31. in these words If you be so infallible as the Apostles were shew it as the Apostles did They went forth saith S. Marke and preached every where the Lord working with them and confirming their words with signes following It is impossible that God should lye and that the Eternall Truth should set his hand and seale to the confirmation of a falshood or of such doctrine as is partly true and partly false The Aposiles doctrine was thus confirmed therfore it was intirely true and in no part either false or vncertaine 10. Now put these Truths togeather Many and great Miracles haue bene wrought by professours of the Roman Religion and particularly in confirmation of it Miracles are vndoubted Proofes of the true Church Faith and Religion What will follow but that the Roman Faith and Religion is entirely true and in no part either false or vncertaine Wherfore men desirous of their Eternall salvation may say confidently with B. S. Austine Lib de Vtilit credendi Cap 17. Dubitabimus nos ejus Ecclesiae c. Shall we doubt to rest in the bosome of that Church which with the acknowledgment of mankind hath obtained the height of Authority from the Apostolique Sea by Succession of Bishops Heretikes in vaine barking about her and being condemned partly by the judgment of the people partly by the gravity of Councells partly by the Majesty of Miracles To which not to giue the first place is indeed either most great impiety or precipitous arrogancie 11. Behold the Notes of the true Church Miracles Succession of Bishops Which perpetuall Succession of Bishops is the Ground and Foundation of the Amplitude Propagation Splendor and Glory of the Church promised by God ād foretold by the Prophets as may be seene Isaiae Chap 60. Vers 22. Chap 2. Vers 2. Chap 49. Vers 23. Chap. 54. Vers 2.3 Psalm 2.8 Dan 2.44 Which Promises some learned Protestants finding evidently not to be fulfilled in the Protestant Church which before Luther was none and being resolved not to embrace the Catholique Church wherin alone those Promises are clearly fulfilled fell
most Fundamentall of all Articles in the Church that Iesus Christ the Son of God and the Son of Mary is the only Saviour of the world Surely one of you must be in such a most important and most Fundamentall errour that you cannot both be saved though you were inculpably ignorant of it as we haue seene out of Potter Pag 243. even concerning this particular Article And now I pray you consider this agreement of Protestants in the foresayd Articles of Repentance and Faith in Christ Iesus the Son of God and Saviour of the world which yet you confess to be simply necessary 24. Object 3. In the same Pag 159. N. 52. You say Suppose a man in some disease were prescribed a medicine consisting of twenty ingredients and he advising with Physitians should find them differing in opinion about it some of them telling hem that all the ingredients were absolutly necessary some that only some of them were necessary the rest only profitable and requisite ad melius esse lastly some that some only were necessary some profitable and the rest superfluous yet not hurtfull yet all with one accord agreeing in this that the whole receypt hid in it all things necessary for the recovery of his health and that if he made vse of it he should infallibly find it successfull what wise man would not thinke they agreed sufficiently for his direction to the recovery of his health I ust so these Protestant Doctours with whose discords you make such Tragedyes agreeing in Thesâ— thus far that the Scripture evidently containes all things necessary to salvation and that whosoever believes it and endeavours to find the true sense of it and to conforme his life vnto it shall certainly performe all things necessary to salvation and vndoubtedly be saved what matters it for the divection of men to salvation though they differ in opinion touching what Points are absolutly necessary and what not 25. Answer You Socinians who adore naturall reason and take pleasure in being esteemed considering men are much delighted in proposing similitudes which make a faire shew and may seduce the ignorant but being examined proue nothing against any except yoursel ves First This similitude can proue nothing vnless you begg the Question and suppose one receypt to haue in it all things necessary for the recovery of the diseased mans health that is Scripture to containe all Points necessary to salvation which you know we deny and say you erre in Thesi If with Scripture you would joyne the Tradition and Definitions of the Church your suppositions were true and your parity good Otherwise your receypt cannot haue all necessary ingredients 26. Secondly Suppose the sick man had great reason to belieue that the ground vpon which the Physitians build their opinion and agreement were not good nor such as he had any obligation at all to credit what sick man if he were also wise could judg their agreement to be sufficient for an vndoubted direction to the recovery of his health Heere then as in other severall occasions I must put you in mynd of your doctrine that we are not bound to belieue as an Object of our Faith Scripture to be the word of God but that we may reject it What then availes it me towards the belief of such or such Points that they are evident in Scripture if I do not belieue Scripture itself 27. Thirdly Suppose the ingredients were very soveraine and sufficient in themselves but that it were not in the sick mans power to procure them were the speculatiue agreement of the Physitians sufficient for his recovery So here It is impossible for most men to know all evideÌ„t texts of scripture which yet according to your grounds must make vp that number of Truths wherin one shall be sure to find all Fundamentall Points and so the agreement of Protestants that all necessary Truths are evidently contayned in Scripture is to little purpose since they cannot distinguish them from Points not necessary and for all men to know all Points evident in Scripture but not necessary is impossible and though it were possible yet being not of obligation for any man even though he be learned to know all such Texts defacto he might without sinne be ignorant of necessary Points which he can be certaine to know only by knowing absolutly all cleare places of Scripture and so be damned for want of believing some Point absolutly necessary necessitate medij which is a plaine contradiction that some Points should be necessary to salvation and yet that we are not bound to attaine the knowledg of them or that the End which is the knowledg of such Points should be necessary and the only meanes to attaine it be either impossible or at least not of obligation to any as certainly no man is obliged to know precisely all and every particular evident Text of Scripture which â—et in your way is the only meanes to know all Fundamentall Points as in your example if a sick man were obliged to procure the recovery of his health he must be obliged to make vse of that receypt which alone could be effectuall in order to that end 28. Fourthly Suppose I could not take such a receypt without danger of drinking poyson togeather with the wholsome ingredients your similitude which goes vpon the contrary supposition doth clearely proue nothing Thus it passes in our case Men left to themselves without the Direction and Traditions of the Church yea with direct opposition to her Definitions and Authority cannot chuse but by occasion of reading Scripture alone fall into many errours against some Divine Revelation delivered either in Scripture or by Tradition that is in the written or vnwritten word of God as we see by experience of old and new Heretikes and particularly by the dissensions of Protestants wherof some must needs contradict some Truth delivered in Gods Word either by detracting from or by adding to the true sense therof Now in divets places you affirme that every errour contrary to any revealed Truth is in its owne nature damnable without Repentance and you add Pag 158. N. 52. that for the most part men are betrayed into errours or kâ—â—t in them by their fault or vice or passion And therfore the true Conclusion will be that men presuming to reade and interpret Scripture by their owne wit without dependance on the Church ought to conceaue that they expose themselves to certaine danger of erring against some Divine Truth or Revelation that is to a thing in itself damnable Neither can they hope for any helpe from Sectaryes whom they see infinitly divided among themselves And if they take such men for their Physitians some of them will affirme some ingredients to be necessary or profitable which others will sweare to be ranke poyson and so every Protestant is left to himself and a particular Catalogne of Fundamentalls is necessary for every one All which is strongly confirmed by calling to mynd that even the most learned
because we cannot in this life hope to triumph over all sinne as Potter speakes so neither can her Communion be forsaken for Errours not Fundamentall seing the Doctor saith also that the Church may not hope to triumph over all Errours 8. Another Argument Charity Maintayned N. 25. tooke from these words of Potter Pag 75. There neither was nor can be any just cause to depart from the Church of Christ no more than from Christ himself But to depart from a particular Church and namely from the Church of Rome in some Doctrines and Practises there might be just and necessary cause though the Church of Rome wanted nothing necessary to salvation Marke what he saith There can be no cause to depart from the Church of Christ and yet he teaches that the Church of Christ the vniversall Church may erre in Points not Fundamentall therfore errours in Poynts not Fundamentall cannot be judged a sufficient and just cause to depart from the vniversall Church and for the same reason if the errours of the Roman Church be supposed to be not Fundamentall there can be no just cause to depart from Her But here he expressly speakes vpon supposition that the Roman Church wanted nothing necessary to salvation and consequently that she did not erre in Fundamentall Points therfore there could be no cause to forsake Her And that Potter affirmes absolutly in other passages of his Booke that the Roman Church doth not erre in Fundamentall Articles shall be demonstrated herafter and consequently that he contradicts himself in saying the vniversall Church cannot be forsaken and yet that there might be just and necessary cause to forsake the Church of Rome which erres only in Poynts not Fundamentall as he holds the vniversall Church may erre to say nothing for the present That Luther did forsake all Churches which is to forsake the vniversall Church as also that indeed all Ortodox Churches agreed with the Roman and so to forsake her was to forsake all Churches for which there can be no just cause 9. Another evasion Potter Pag 76. bring to avoyd the just imputation of Schisme and it is because they acknowledg the Church of Rome to be a member of the Body of Christ and not cut off from the hope of salvation And this saith he cleares vs from the imputation of Schisme whose property it is to cut of from the Body of Christ and the hope of salvation the Church from which it separates 10. This shift is confuted at large by Charity Maintayned as a strange Doctrine that men should be Schismatiks in for saking a Church which they judge to want somthing that is necessary to salvation and that they should be excused from Schisme who forsake her and yet profess that she hath all things necessary to salvation as if a man should thinke it a sufficient excuse for his rebellion to alledg that he held the Person against whom he rebelled to be his Lawfull Soveraine And Dr. Potter thinkes himselfe free from Schisme because he forsooke the Church of Rome but yet so as that still he held her to be a true Church and to haue all necessary meanes to salvation But I will no further vrge this most solemne foppery and do much more willingly put all Catholikes in mynd what an vnspeakeable comfort it is that our Adversaryes are forced to confesse that they cannot cleare themselves from Schisme otherwise thaÌ„ by acknowledging that they do not nor caÌ„not cutt off froÌ„ the hope of salvation our Church Which is as much as if they should in plaine termes say They must be damned vnless we may be saved Moreover this evasion doth indeed condemne your Zealous Brethren of Heresy for denying the Churches perpetuity but doth not cleere yourself from Schisme which consists in being divided from that true Church with which a man agreeth in all Points of Faith as you must profess yourself to agree with the Church of Rome in all Fundamentall Articles For otherwise you should cut her off from the hope of salvation and so condemne yourselfe of Schisme And lastly even according to this your owne definition of Schisme you cannot cleere yourselfe from that crime vnlesse you be content to acknowledg a manifest contradiction in your owne Assertions For if you do not cut vs off from the Body of Christ and the Hope of salvation how come you to say Pag. 20. that you Judg a reconcilation with vs to be damnable And Pag 75. that to depart from the Church of Rome there might be just and necessary cause And Pag 79. That they that haue the vnderstanding and meanes to discover their errour and neglect to vse them we dare not flatter them with so easy a censure of hope of salvation If then it be as you say a property of Schisme to cut off from the Hope of salvation the Church from which it separates how will you cleare yourself from Schisme who dare not flatter vs with so easy a censure And who affirme that a reconciliation with vs is damnable But the truth is there is no constancy in your Assertions by reason of difficultyes which presse you on all sides For you are loath to affirme clearly that we may be saved least such a grant might be occasion as in all reason it ought to be of the conversion of Protestants to the Roman Church And on the other side if you affirme that our Church erred in points Fundamentall or necessary to salvation you know not how nor where nor among what Company of men to find a perpetuall Visible Church of Christ before Luther And therfore your best shift is to say and vnsay as your occasions command I do not examine the Doctours Assertion that it is the property of Schisme to cut of from the Body of Christ the Church from which it separates wherin he is mistaken as appeares by his owne example of the Donatists who were formall and proper Heretiks as he affirmes because they denyed the perpetuity of Gods Church which he saith is in its nature a formall Heresy against the Article of our Creed I belieue the Catholike Church and not Schismatiks as Schisme is a vice distinct from Heresy Besides although the Donatists and Luciferians whom he also alâ—edges had bene meere Schismatiks yet it were against all good Logicke from a particular to inferr a generall Rule to determine what is the property of Schisme Thus farr Charity Maintayned And indeed this might seeme a good Argument The Church of Rome wants something necessary to salvation Therfore it is lawfull and necessary to forsake Her but not this We haue forsaken the Church of Rome but yet so as we belieue she wants nothing necessary to salvation Therfore we are not Schismatiques 11. A third devise Potter hath to cleere Protestants from Schisme saying Pag 75. There is a great difference between a Schisme from them and a Reformation of ourselves But this saith Charity Maintayned N. 29. is a subtility by which all Schisme and sin
member whether we suppose that former Mysticall Body to be still existent or to haue perished which consideration of existing or not existing of the Community from which one departs is only materiall and accidentall to Schisme consisting formally in division from the Communion of the Church whether only preexistent or existent also for the present If it be sayd Genes 1. V. 5. Divisit Lucem a tenebris he divided the light from the darkness by taking away phisically or as I may say destroying one of the extremes seing light and darkness cannot stand together much more may we say that morally one may be divided from a Church and from himselfe though that Church cease to be or still remayne and he shall cease to be a member of it even by that Division though he cease nor to exist or be a man or himselfe 113. And now appeares that what Charity Maintayned Part 1. P 204. N. 39. sayd That a Protestant may be a Schismatike from himselfe because the selfsame Protestant to day is convicted in Conscience that his yesterdays opiniō was an errour with whō therfore a reconciliatiō according to Dr. Potters Ground Pag 20. is both impossible ād damnable is no strāg saying in itselfe though yet to make it appeare so you Pag 303. N. 103. do egregiously falsify his words which are From a mans selfe c. as much as is possible which words as much as is possible you leaue out And by the way I wonder with what conscience you can pretend to inferr out of the words of Cha Ma That they that hold errours must hold them fast and take speciall care of being convicted in conscience that they are in errour for feare of being Schismatiks For Ch Ma said only with whom therfore a reconciliation according to Potters grounds is impossible and dānable which is a cleare inference out of Potter to shew that a man may be irreconciliable with himselfe and divided frō himselfe in regard of his owne repugnant opinions ād consequently a Schismatike from himselfe if other conditions of Schisme do concurre as for Exāple that he leaue a revealed Doctrine by falling into Heresy or forsake the Communion of that true Church of which he was once a member and so morally divide himselfe from himselfe 114. Fourthly Your speculation is directly against the holy Fathers Charity Maintayned Part 1. Pag 153. N. 3. cites S. Hierome vpon these words ad Titum 3. A man that is an Heretike after the first and second admonition avoyde saying Schisme doth separate from the Church which you must say is not true because they who separate are Part of the Church and they separate not from themselves And N. 7. the alledges S. Austine de gest cum Emerit saying Out of the Catholique Church one may haue Faith orders and in summe all things except salvation This you will controle and tell S. Austine that none can be out of the Catholique Church because they themselves are Part of that Church and they cannot be divided from themselves And N. 11. the same Saint is alledged saying in Psalm 30. Conc 2. The Prophets spoke more obscurely of Christ than of the Church because as I thinke they did for see in spirit that men were to make partyes against the Church and that they were not to haue so great strife concerning Christ Therfore that was more plainly fortold and more openly prophecyed about which greater contentions were to rise that it might turne to the condemnation of them who haue seene it and yet gone forth If your Doctrine were true none can go forth of the Church because they cannot go from themselves S. Fulgentius cited N. 7. saith de Fid ad Pet Belieue this stedfastly without doubting that every Heretike or Schismatike baptized in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost if before the end of his life he be not reconciled to the Catholique Church what almes soever he giue yea though he should shed his bloud for the Name of Christ he cannot obtaine salvation But how can any be reconciled to the Catholique Church if he cannot be divided from her Because he neither was nor could be divided from himselfe And that you may be convinced by all kind of witnesses how could Calvin say Epist 141. we were forced to make a separation from the whole world since he could not separate from himselfe We must therfore say that whosoever divides himselfe from the Church by Schisme separates from the whole Church because by that separation he ceaseth to be a member of the Church and so the Church which before was a Whole of which he then was a Part remaines in Herselfe a Whole but he no Part by reason of his voluntary Division from Her which for the effect of his being or not being denominated a Part of the Church is all one with corporall death vnlesse you will covertly haue men belieue that there can be no such imaginable thing as Schisme from the whole or vniversall Church because the party separating himself from the Church is still a Part of Her in regard he is not divided from himselfe And no wonder if you make small account of Schisme or Division from the Church who think and speak so contemptibly of the Church as we haue heard you Pag 294. N. 93. speak even of the Catholique Church in these words What is it but a society of men wherof every particular and by consequence the whole company is or may be guilty of many sinnes daily committed against knowledg and conscience Now I would faine vnderstand why one errour in faith especially if not Fundamentall should not consist with the holyness of this Church as well as many and great sins committed against knowledg and conscience Which saying of yours hath bene confuted aboue 115. Object 11. Charity Maintayned Part 1. Pag 196. N. 31. saith Luther being but only one opposed himselfe to All as well subjects as superiours Against this Pag 291. N. 89. you object How can we say properly and without straining that he opposed himselfe to All vnless we could say also that All opposed themselves to him And how can we say so seing the world can witness that so many thousands nay millions followed his standard as soone as it was advanced 116. Answer This is no good dealing to impugne Charity Maintayned for that very thing concerning Luther for which Part. 1. Pag 161 N. 9. he cited Luther himselfe expressly saying in Praefat Operum suorum Primò solus eram At the first I was alone Now will you say to your Patriark Alone And yet so many thousands nay millions followed you But surely if so many millions followed him so very early they made much more hast than they could make good speed in a matter so vncouth strange incredible of so high concerment and so visibly repugnant to the doctrine and practise of the whole vniversall Church of God and therfore they must needs be lyable to that just
Protestants teach that the Roman Church doth not erre in any Point Fundamentall or necessary to salvation and this you say diverse tymes is not true 147. Answer I will not say as you Pag. 76. N. 63. speake to Charity Maintayned I feare you will repent the tyme that ever you vrged this Point against Charity Maintayned but contrarily I hope that the Reader if he be not a Protestant will find just occasion to prayse God that the Answer to this your Objection will demonstrate to him in how safe a way we Catholikes are even by the confession of our Adversaryes and how much it imports him to place his soule in the like safety 148. I haue already vpon severall occasions mentioned some passages wherin you and Dr. Potter confesse that the Roman Church wants nothing necessary to salvation Now I will doe it more at large Potter Pag 63. saith The most necessary and fundamentall Truths which constitute a Church are on both sides vnquestioned And for that reason learned Protestants yield them Romanisis as he calls vs the name and substance of a Christian Church Where we see that he saith in generall learued Protestants yield them c. In proofe wherof he cites in his margent Junius D. Reinolds and sayes See the juagment of many other writers in the Advertisement annexed to the Old Religion by the Reverend Bishop of Exeter and adds The very Anabaotists grant it Fr. Ichnson in his Christian plea Pa 123. So that with this one Testimony of Potter we haue many other even of our greatest Adversaryes And I desire the reader to obserue well that here P 62 he saith To those twelue Articles which the Apostles in their Creed esteâ—med a sufficient Summary of wholsome Doctrine they Catholikes haue added many more Such are for instance their Apocryphall Scriptures and vnwrâ—ten dogmaticall Traditions their Transsubstantiation and dry Communion their Purgatory Invocation of Saints Worship of Images Latine service trafficke of Indulgences and shortly the other new Doctrines and Decrees canonized in their late Synode of Trent Vpon these and the like new Articles is all the contestation between the Romanists and Protestants And then he adds the words which we haue cited The most necessary and Fundamentall truths which constatute a Church are on both sides vnquestioned and for that c. Where we see he grants we belieue the twelue Articles of the Apostles Creed which he teaches at large to containe all Fundamentall Points of Faith and that we hold all the most necessary and Fundamentall truths which constitute a Church Therfore those Points of our Doctrine which he giues for instance are no Fundementall errours nor the contrary Articles necessary and Fundamentall truths and yet he names all the Chiefest Points controverted betweene vs and Protestants even transubstantiation Communion in one kind and Latine Service which are the things they are wont most to oppose yea he comprises all the Doctrines and Decrees of the Councell of Trent Therfore we are free from fundamentall errours by the confession of our Adversaryes Pag 59. The Protestants never intended to erect a new Church but to purge the Old The Reformation did not change the substance of Religion but only clensed it from corrupt and impure qualityes If the Protestants erected not a new Church then ours is still the Old Church and if it were only clensed from corrupt qualityes without change of the substance the substance must be still the same that it was and that which was must be the same with that which is Pag 61. The things which the Protestants belieue on their part and wherin they judge the life and substance of Religion to be comprized are most if not all of them so evidently and indisputably true that their Adversaryes themselves do avow and receaue them as well as they Therfore we Catolikes haue the life and substance of Religion Pag 60. In the prime grounds of Principles or Christian Religion wee haue not forsaken the Church of Rome Therfore you grant that we haue the prime grounds or Fundamentall Articles of Religion Pag 11. For those Catholique Verityes which she the Roman Church retaines we yield her a member of the Catholike though one of the most vnsound and corrupt members In this sense the Romanists may be called Catholikes Behold we are members of the Catholike Church which could not be if we erred in any one fundamentall Point By the way If the Romanists may be called Catholikes why may not the Roman Church be termed Catholique And yet this is that Argument which Protestants are wont to vrge against vs and Potter in particular in this very place not considering that he impugnes himselfe while he speakes against vs nor distinguishing between vniversall as Logicians speake of it which signifyes one common thing abstracting or abstracted from all particulars and Catholique as it is taken in true Divinity for the Church spred over the whole world that is all Churches which agree with the Roman and vpon that vaine conceit telling his vnlearned Reader that vniversall and particular are termes repugnant and consequently one cannot be affirmed of the other that is say I Catholique cannot be affirmed of Dr. Potter nor Dr. Potter sayd to be a Catholike because a particular cannot be sayd to be vniversall or an vniversall Pag 75. To depart from the Church of RomeÌ„ in some doctrines and practises there might be just and necessary cause though the Church of Rome wanted nothing necessary to salvation P 70. They the Roman Doctours confess that setting aside all matters controverted the maine positiue truths wherin all agree are abundantly sufficient to every good Christian both for his knowledge and for his practise teaching him what to belieue and how to liue so as he may be saved His saying that the Roman Doctours confesse that setting a side all matters controverted c. is very vntrue it being manifest that Catholikes belieue Protestants to erre damnably both in matters of Faith and practise yet his words convince ad hominem that we haue all that is necessary yea and abundantly sufficient both for knowledg and practise for vs to be saved And then he discoursing of the Doctrines wherin we differ from Protestants saith Pag 74. If the mistaker will suppose his Roman Church and Religion purged from these and the like confessed excesses and noveltyes he shall find in that which remaines little difference of importance betweene vs. Therfore de facto we belieue all things of importance which Protestants belieue After these words without any interruption he goes forward and sayes Pag 75. But by this discourse the Mistaker happily may belieue his cause to be advantaged and may reply If Rome want nothing essentiall to Religion or to a Church how then can the Reformers justify their separation from that Church or free themselves from damnable Schisme Doth not this discourse proue and the Objection which he rayses from it suppose that we want nothing essentiall to Religion Otherwise
vnderstanding to an assent in despite of any pious affection of the will and reverence due to Gods Church and Councells and the many and great reasons which make for Her which is vnanswerably confirmed by considering that Protestants disagree amongst themselves and many of them in many things agree with vs which I must often repeate which could not happen if the reasons against vs were demonstratiue or evident and in this occasion your Rule that the property of Charity is to judge the best will haue place at least for as much as concernes those your owne Brethren who agree with vs As also your other saying Pag 41. N. 13. That men honest and vpright hearts true lovers of God and truth may without any fault at all some goe one way some another which shewes that there can be no evidence against the Doctrine of the Church with which even so many Protestants agree but that Catholikes haue at least very probable and prudent reasons not to depart from the Church in any one point and that although we should falsely suppose Her to erre in points not fundamentall the errour could not be culpable nor sinfull but most prudent and laudable And in this our condition is far different and manifestly better than that of Protestants who disagreeing not only both from the Church but amongst themselves also must be certaine that they are in errour which for ought they know may be fundamentall seing they cannot tell what Points in particular are fundamentall wheras we adhering to the Church are sure not to erre against any necessary or fundamentall truth And yourselfe say Pag 376. N. 57. He that believes all necessary Truth if his life be answerable to his Faith how is it possible he should faile of salvation 168. And then further vpon this same ground is deduced another great difference with great advantage on our side that Protestants are obliged vnder paine of damnation to make choyse of the more certaine and secure part and must not be content with a meere probability if they can by any industry care study prayer fasting almes-deeds or any other meanes attaine to a greater degree of certainty For if indeed they erre in any one Article of Faith necessary necessitate medij they cannot be saved even though their errour were supposed to be invincible as hertofore we haue shewed out of Protestants Wheras we being assured that adhering to the Church we cannot erre in any point of it selfe necessary to salvation for the rest we are sure to be saved if we proceed prudently and probably because the truth contrary to our supposed errours cannot be necessary necessitate medij as not being fundamentall Yea since indeed Protestants can haue no other true and solid meanes of assurance that they erre not Fundamentally except the same which we embrace of believing the Church in all her definitions they are obliged vnder deadly sin to belieue all that she proposes for feare of erring in some Fundamentall Article What I haue sayd that we proceede prudently though our Doctrines were supposed to be errours may be confirmed by an Adversary Dr. Jer Taylor who in his Liberty of prophesying § 20. N. 2. saieth that our grounds that truth is more ancient then falshood that God would not for so many Ages forsake his Church and leaue her in errour that whatsoever is new is not only suspitions but false are suppositions pious and plausible enough And then having reckoned many advantages of our Church he concludes These things and divers others may very easily perswade persons of much reason and more piety to retain that which they know to haue been the Religion of their fore-Fathers which had actuall possession and seizure of mens vnderstandings before the opposite professions had a name before Luther appeared And in express tearmes he confesses that these things are instruments of our excuse by making our errours to be invinc1ible which is the thing I would proue But here I must declare that when I say It is sufficient for vs to proceed probably and prudently It is still vpon a false supposition that the Church may erre in some Point not Fundamentall though in reall truth there be no such distinction For we are obliged vnder payne of damnation to belieue the Church equally in all points and vse all not only probable but possible meanes to find the true Church and belieue her with absolute certainty in all matters belonging to Faith and in particular That she cannot erre in any point Fundamentall or not Fundamentall without the beliefe of which truth Christian Faith cannot be certaine and infallible as hath been shewed at large 169. Thirdly I answer to your Objection That we absolutely deny the Catholique Church to be subject to errour either in Fundamentall or not Fundamentall Points or that she can erre either Fundamentally or damnably in what sense soever And therfore wheras you say Pag 280. N. 95. The errours of Protestants are not so great as ours we vtterly deny that our Church can belieue or propose any errour at all And though those Catholique Verityes which we belieue were errours yet they could not be greater than those of Protestants speaking in generall seing in all the chiefest controverted points we haue diverse chiefe learned men on our side who think themselves as good Protestants as those other from whom they disagree Besides in our Question respect must be had to the kind and not to the degree of errours that is nor whether the points be FundameÌ„tall or not FundameÌ„tall nor whether they which be Fundamentall be greater or less in their owne nature nor whether one not Fundamentall be worse than another not Fundamentall because if one errour not Fundamentall yield not sufficient cause to forsake the Communion of the Church another cannot otherwise you will not be able to assigne any Rule when the Church may be forsaken and when she cannor and it is damnable to professe against ones conscience any errour in Faith be it never so small which is the ground for which you say the Communion of the Church may be forsaken And lastly it is more wisdome to hold a greater vnfundamentall errour with the Church which I know by the confession of our Adversaryes cannot erre fundamentally than by holding a less vnfundamentall errour expose my selfe to danger of falling into fundamentall errours as I proved hertofore As it is less evill to commit a veniall sinne that is which abstracting from the case of perplexity would be certainly a veniall sinne than to expose ones selfe to true danger of falling into a mortall offence of God 170. Fourthly I answer that as I haue often noted according to you and Dr. Potter it is Fundamentall to the Faith of a Christian not to deny any point though otherwise of its nature not Fundamentall being proposed and belieued to be revealed by God and so your distinction between Fundamentall and damnable Points as if the eâ—â—ours of Catholiks and Protestants were damnable
to supernaturall infused justifying Grace which is both absurd and the wicked heresy of Pelagius Lastly It is a certaine truth that whosoever departs this life in any one deadly sin vnrepented cannot be saved And it is also true that some habituall sin may consist with some naturall precedent habits of vertue which are not expelled by every deadly sin seing such a deadly sin may be cōmitted in some matter which hath no connexion at all with the objects of those naturall habits of vertue and therfore such a sin shall not expell such habits of morall vertues as de facto it doth not expell even the supernaturall habits of the Theologicall vertues Faith and hope And if habituall sin may stand with naturall yea and with some supernaturall Vertues what reason can be imagined but that habituall grace and Sanctity may consist with the simple entity or nature of vicious habits being cleared by Repentance from all former relation of being effects of sinfull Acts by which they were produced And consequently true Repentance which is a disposition to the infusion of grace may consist without the extirpation of the habits seing grace itselfe may stand with them 13. The third kind of Habits I call infused Habits of the three Theologicall vertues Faith Hope and Charity which haue for their immediate object God himselfe who is our last End and infused Habits of morall vertues which respect or haue for their Objects the Meanes which bring vs to that End Now for the production or in fusion of supernaturall Habits we may dispose ourselves by voluntary supernaturall Acts produced by the particular Assistance of the Holy Ghost but the Habits themselves are produced and infused into our soules immediatly and only by God and not Physically and really produced by any even supernaturall Acts of ours as naturall Habits are acquired and produced by our naturall Acts. And as our soule which is a spirit and the life of our body is created by God alone so no wonder if justifying Grace which is the spirituall life and soule of our soule be infused by God not produced by vs. This difference ariseth from the diversity of nature between naturall and supernaturall or Infused Habits Naturall Habits do presuppose a Power or Ability to produce certaine Acts and Habits are superadjoyned to the same Power for producing those Acts with greater promptitude and facility But supernaturall Habits not finding in our soule a power to produce of it selfe supernaturall Acts for how could they be supernaturall if they could be produced by naturall forces giue vs such power and Ability and therfore in rigour of speech should rather be called Potentiae than Habitus Powers than Habits For which cause I sayd Three sorts of Habits or as it were Habits ought to be distinguished in this Question For. Habituall sin is as I may say less than an habit being no reall or Physicall Quality the infufed habits are more than meere habits they are Powers as I haue declared Naturall or acquired habits being reall Qualityes on the one side and on the other presupposing in vs a Power to worke without them are really properly and purely habits It is therfore easy to vnderstand the reason why our Acts cannot produce supernaturall habits which giue vs Power to produce such Acts it being a cleare case that no effect can produce that which of its nature is the very Power to produce or the Efficient Cause in respect of such Effects which Cause must be presupposed existent and in being before it can produce such an Effect Otherwise there would be a mutuall causality and dependance between the first production of the Cause Efficient and the effect therof the Cause would be the effect of its owne effect and the Effect would be the cause of its Cause as if the Father should be son to his son and the son father to his owne Father 14. From this Ground That supernaturall habits are Powers without which our soule is not only weake or infirme but absolutly vnable to produce any supernaturall Act and therfore cannot be acquired or produced by any Acts of ours there followes another difference That naturall acquired Habits yield as it were a sensible facility demonstration experience and feeling of themselves by remooving impediments disposing the Organs of our Body and other such wayes But those other Habits giving vs the first Ability and Power and being in their nature essentially supernaturall are not discernable by sensible experience but may well consist with vicious Habits and with the facility or inclination which they affoard towards their severall Objects as it happens not seldome that a man who in the sight of God is more holy by supernaturall Grace is carryed with a more vehement inclination or impulsion to sinfull Objects either by his naturall complexion or vicious Habits acquired before his conversion than another made of a different constitution of body or clogged with fewer vicious Habits which greater propension to sin is so far from being any sin of itselfe that it gives continuall matter of greater merit by frequent combats and victoryes 15. And here I would aske whether if you hold the habits of vice to be habituall sins even after an Act of Contrition or Sorrow with a firme purpose to amend you must not likewise belieue naturall acquired Habits of vertues to be justice and Sanctity in the sight of God And yet this were direct Pelagianisme evacuating the fruite of our Saviours Satisfaction and merit and is in itself manifestly vntrue For the End to which God hath elevated and ordained Man being supernaturall the Beatificall Uision or enjoying God in his Glory the Meanes which bring vs to that End must also be supernaturall and not to be compassed by our naturall forces and therfore naturall Habits of vertue acquired by our owne Acts cannot be true Sanctity and Justice which make vs capable of the Beatificall Uision nor can that Repentance which disposes vs for Heaven consist in the extirpation of vicious Habits in which Habituall sin doth not consist as Sanctity doth not consist in naturall Habits of vertue Neither may it seeme strang that you should belieue Sanctity to consist in the acquired habits of Uertue who hold Christian Faith to be no more than a probable Assent or Conclusion deduced by naturall reason from Premises evidently apt to inferr such a Conclusion As also who speaking of Charity say Pag 368. N. 49. It is against reason and experience that by the commission of any deadly sin the Habit of Charity is quite extirpated By which you giue to vnderstand that you belieue the habit of Charity to be produced by our Acts and to be destroyed by little and little as it happeneth in naturall acquired habits and that the presence of it may be discovered by experience which agrees only to naturall habits working in vs by a kind of experimentall way Wheras if you did belieue the habit of Charity to be supernaturall in essence not
producible by our Acts but infused by God for enabling vs to loue his Divine Majesty aboue all things you would easily see that it could not be destroyed by parts but all togeather and that only in case of committing a deadly sin wherby the sinner in fact voluntarily prefers some creature before God his Creatour and therby ceaseth to loue him aboue all things which yet is essentiall to Charity and without which it cannot exist in any least degree Holy Scripture tells vs he that loves not remaines in death which declares that Charity is the life of the soule and de dly sin being the death therof if Charity may stand with deadly sin the life and death of the soule should abide togeather But as I sayd it appeares by this that you discourse of the Theologicall vertrue of Charity as of naturall acquired habits produced by our Acts may be encreased diminished produced and destroyed without any like alteration in the habits of the infused vertues which are of a different nature and higher kind And by this appeares how necessary it was to premise the Introduction concerning the infused habits and necessity of Grace 16. In the meane tyme every one may see that either you make small account of Scripture which yet you pretend to be a totall Rule of Faith or els that it is not cleare even when it seemes to speake most cleare For what principle is more received in Christianity or more evidently set downe in Scripture than that by true and harty Contrition a sinner doth instantly obtaine pardon of his sins And yet you deny this first principle and as it seemes can see no such evidence in Scripture concerning it The Protestant Church of England once so termed at the beginning of their morning Prayer hath this sentence out of the Psalme 51. according to their account a sorrowfull spirit is a sacrifice to God and that out of S. Luke 15.18.19 of the Prodigall child I will goe to my father and say to him Father I haue sinned against Heaven and against thee I am no more worthy to be called thy son who vpon such Repentance was instantly received into favour as S. Basill Homil de penit saith of him Caeperat dicere mox illum Pater complectitur He had searce begun to aske pardon when it was granted him And S. Chrysost priore epist ad Theodor laps In eo momento totius vitae peccata abstergit In that very instant the sins of his whole life were wiped away Thus we reade Ezech 33.12 The justice of the just shall not deliver him in what day soever he shall sinne and the imprety of the impious shall not hurt him in what day soever he shall convert frō his impiety Therfore as a just man doth instantly loosegrace by his sin so a sinner repēting doth presentlyobtaine pardon of his sin and lives by justifying grace God being more ready to pardon than punish And no wonder seing a sinner performes all that is in his power for that instant And god requires of vs no more than is in our power nor can he seriously command impossible things as you expressly confesse Pag 390. N. 7. in these words The Rule of the Law is also the dictate of common reason and equity that no man can be obliged to what is impossible We can be obleged to nothing but by vertue of some command Now it is impossible that God should command in carnest any thing which he knowes to be impossible For to command in earnest is to command with an intent to be obliged which is not possible he should doe when he knowes the thing commanded to be impossible These I say be your words ād they are very true but directly against the common doctrine of Protestants that it is impossible to keepe the commandements of God who surely commanded them in Scripture in good earnest and not in jeast neither is there any moment wherin a man indued with the vse of Reason may not avoide eternall damnation if he cooperate with Gods grace which is never wanting nor can there be any moment wherin a man may not hope to be saved It is a true Axiome of Divines facienti quod in se est c God doth not denye his Grace to him who doth all that lyes in his power assisted by grace I sayd A sinner doth all that lyes in his power at that instant For if he surviue he is obliged to keepe all the Commandements which oblige vnder mortall sin but this observance is not a part of Contrition or Repentance but only the Object therof for as much as Contrition implyes an effectuall purpose of keeping the Commandements And for that cause the same Prophet Uers 14.15.16 saith If I shall say to the impious Dying thou shallt dye and he do pennance from his sin and do judgment and justice and the same impious restore pledge and render robbery walke in the Commandements of life and do not any vnjust thing living he shall liue and shall notdy All his sins which he hath sinned shall not be imputed to him he hath done judgment and justice living he shall liue This appeares in the conversion and justification of David 2. Reg 12. who repenting had scarce vttered two words I haue sinned to our Lord when he heard of the Prophet Our Lord also hath taken away thy sin Where some obserue that the Prophet sayd not our Lord will take away thy sin de futuro but hath taken away thy sin de praeterito to signify that Contrition and remission of his sins mett in the same instant Which David himselfe witnesseth Psalm 31. V. 5. I sayd I will confess against me my injustice to our Lord and thou hast forgiven me the impiety of my sin Vpon which place S. Austine speaking in person of David saith my confession had not come so far as to my mouth and God heard the voyce of my hart My voyce was not yet in my mouth and the eare of God was already in my hart Actor 2.38 Peter sayd to them do pennance and be every one of you baptized in the name of Jesus Christ And Uers 42. They therfore that received his word were baptized But it is cleare that these men could not haue tyme to roote out all vicious habits therfore that cānot be required to true Repentance Prov 8. I loue those who loue me But how cā God be sayd to loue those who loue him if he forgiues not the sin but remaines offēded ād an enemy to one who loves him by true Contrition which implyes the loue of his divine Majesty aboue all things S. Austine in Enchirid C. 65. saith Not so much the measure or quality of tyme as of sorrow is to be considered For God doth not despise a contrite and humbled hart Which last words taken out of the 40. Psalme do of themselves proue our Assertion So that Scripture Fathers and Theologicall reasons do all concurre in this that effectuall sorrow for
Controversyes Sir I beseech you when you write againe doe vs the favour to write nothing but Syllogismes for I find it still an extreme trouble to find out the concealed propositions which are to connect the parts of your enthymems As now for example I profess vnto you I am at my wits end and haue done my best endeavour to find some glue or sodder or cement or chaine or thred or any thing to tye this antecedent and this consequent together and at length am forced to giue it over and cannot doe it 54. Answer If you were in a condition to reply I would advise you to write not Syllogismes or enthymems but with truth Christian modesty and humility If there be any obscurity in Charity Maintayned you did not find but make it by breaking the thred of his discourse and disjoyning into severall Numbers of Sections or Yours that which is delivered in that one continued N. 16. which you impugne For having proved that according to the grounds of Protestāts they before they address themselves to the Church must know what Points are Fundamentall they learne not of her but will be as fit to teach as to be taught by her And then to confute this Doctrine of Protestants he saieth S. Austine was of a very different mind from Protestants If saieth he Epist 118. the Church through the whole world practice any of these things to dispute whether that ought to be done is a most insolent madness And in an other place he saieth Lib 4. de Bapt Chap 24. That which the whole Church holds and is not ordained by Councells but hath alwaies been kept is most rigthly believed to be delivered by Apostolicall authority Now Sr. I beseech you doe vs the favour to declare whether these words of S. Austine doe not proue that we are to learne of the Church and her Traditions and not presume to teach her Which was the very thing which Cha Ma affirmed and proved not by any Syllogisme or enthymem but by a continued discourse as men are wont to doe which yet might be easily drawne into a Syllogisme or some other Lawfull Forme of Logicall Argument if need were as any true Discourse may be so reduced 55. All that you haue N 44.45.46 containes no difficulty which may not be answered out of the grounds which I haue Laied heretofore Tertullian is rightly alledged for Traditions in generall but to the Church belongs the office of judging in particular what be Lawfull and Apostolicall or divine Traditions and not humane invētions Neither can it be prejudiciall to Traditions in generall that some haue bene lost as I hope you will not deny some Bookes of Scripture to be Divine though some haue bene lost and some conterfaited In your N. 46. you thought it best to dissemble what Ch. Ma. alledges out of Withaker De Sacra Script Pag 678. concerning an Authority of S. Chrysostom for Traditions I answer that this is an inconsiderate speach and vnworthy so great a Father 56. In your N. 47. you spend many words about a sentence of S. Austine which that you may overcome with more ease you with a pettie policy divide from the other places which Ch Ma in the same N. 16. cites out of the same Saynt one place strengthening an other Whosoever reades with due consideration your long discourse will finde that your ayme was covertly to vent your Socinianisme against the Church and openly contradict S. Austine while you pretend to answer the sentences which Cha. ma. cited out of him which are these Epist 119. the Church being placed betwixt much chaffe and cockle doth tollerate many things but yet she doth not approue nor dissemble nor do these things which are against Faith or good life you say That because S. Austine sayes the Church doth not approue nor dissemble nor doe these things which are against Faith or good life Ch. Ma. concludes that it never hath done so nor ever can doe so And then you add But though the Argument hold in Logick a non posse and non esse yet I never heard that it is would hold back againe a non esse ad non posse The Church cannot doe this therefore it does it not followes with good consequence but the Church does not this therefore it shall neuer doe it this I belieue will hardly follow In the Epistle next before to the same I anuarius writing of the same matter he hath these words It remaines that the thing you enquire of must he of that third kind of things which are different in diverse places Let euery one therfore doe that which he finds done in the Church to which he comes for none of them is against Faith or good manners And why do you not infer from hence that no particular Church can bring vp any custome that is against Faith or good manners Certainly this consequence has as good reason for it as the former 57. Answer S. Austines meaning to be that the Church neither doth nor can approue any thing against Faith or good life appeares by the very Epist 1 18. next before to the same Iannarius as you speak where he saieth If the Church through the whole world practise any of these things to dispute whether that ought to be so done is a most insolent madnes Where you see the Saynt speakes not only de facto but de jure what ought to be done and therfore as I saied no wonder if you divided the Sentences of S. Austine which you found set downe by Charity Maintayned in the same N. 16. Besides you should know that in matters belonging to doctrine of Faith an indefinite Proposition ordinarily is equivalent to an vniversall as for example God approves not sinne the Church ere 's not in fundamentall Points of Faith Works of Christian Piety require the assistance of Gods Grace He that believes not shall be damned c And indeed how could S. Austine say vniversally of all tymes and places without limitation the Church doth not this but by supposing that it is certaine she will never doe it which must implie some particular Priviledg of Divine assistance securing her from doing it For if he spoke only of a casuall and contingent thing for a determinate tyme he could not be sure of what he affirmed seing it might be done in some place without his knowledg and whosoever vnpartially considers these words The Church does not this will confess that they signify she never does it and that something is attributed to Her which agrees not to private persons casually not doing a thing Which also appeares by the Antithesis he puts betweene the Church and chaffe and cockle that is imperfections or superstitions of which he speaks Your Argument taken from a particular Church is of no force For you confess S. Austine speaks of things indifferent and rhen I grant that no particular Church can bring vp any custome against Faith or good manners as long as she practises only
with them if they kept their station vnto the very end of their lives Behold an if a condition If they kept their station which if it be in their free will not to doe as your if supposes it to be then according to your Divinity they might faile and all Promise made to them proue ineffectuall neither can we be certaine that de facto they haue not failed and fallen into errour in their preaching and writing Scripture Nay do you not teach and labour to proue that the Apostles even after the receiving of the Holy Spirit which you confess was promised to abide with them for ever that is say you for their whole life and that they should never want the spirits assistance vnto the very end of their lives did erre in a command clearely revealed to them about preaching the Gospell to Gentills How then was that Promise performed if it were absolute And if only conditionall you grant no more to them than to any other neither can we be certaine that they haue not erred in other things as you say they erred in that Your alledging some Texts to proue that the word ever may be taken for the whole time of a mans life is not to any purpose vnless you had also proved that it is so vnderstood in the place of which we speak Joan 14.16 And seing even by this example the same words are capable of different senses and that Protestants cannot possibly giue any Rule which Text is to be interpreted by what others we must conclude that Scripture alone cannot be a perfect Rule of Faith 84. But now in your N. 75. we find threates that you will work wonders and that we may not be so much overseene as to pass them without due reflection you say to Charity Maintayned This will seeme strang newes to you at first hearing and not farre from a prodigy But it is not strang that heere you doe that which you doe in divers other occasions that is impeach the infallibility of the Apostles and consequently depriue their preaching and writing and all Christian Religion of all certainty though I grant it to be very strang and a prodigy that notwithstanding this you will pretend to be a Christian and that your Book is approved by and published among Christians For besides what I noted even now about your conditionall promise made to the Apostles If they kept theyr station heere you declare clearely and at large that the Promise of which S. John speakes was appropriated to the Apostles as you speak and that it is not absolute but as you expressly say most clearly and expressly conditionall being both in the words before restrained to those only that loue God and keepe his commandements And in the words after flatly denyed to all whom the scriptures stile by the name of the world that is as the very Antithesis giues vs plainly to vnderstand to all wicked and wordly men Behold the place entire as it is set downe in your owne Bible If you loue me keepe my commandements and I will ask my Father and he shall giue you an other Paracleâ—e that he may abide with your for ever even the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receiue And then speaking of the Pope you say We can haue no certainty that the Spirit of Truth is promised to him but vpon supposall that he performes the condition where vnto the promise of the Spirit of Truth is expressly limited viz. That he loue God and keep his commandements and of this not knowing the Popes heart we can haue no certainty at all Doth not this interpretation and discourse clearly declare that we can haue no certainty of the Apostles infallibility because not knowing their hearts we can haue no certainty at all that when they preached and wrote they did loue God and keepe his commandements Besides in the doctrine of Protestants we cannot be certaine by certainty of Faith that the Apostles kept the commandemeÌ„ts except first we belieue Scripture and yet we caÌ„not belieue Scripture itself except first we belieue the Apostles to be infallible and to haue kept that condition of keeping the commandements Therfore we must belieue Scripture before we belieue the Apostles to keepe the commandements and be infallible and we must belieue the Apostles to be infallible and to keepe the commandements before we belieue Scripture which is an inextricable Circle and a contradiction implying finally that we belieue Scripture for it self which you confess no wise man will affirme and that the belief of Scripture should be cause of the belief of Scripture and the same thing be necessary to the first production of it self Wherefore you must either renounce this Interpretation of a conditionall Promise made yea as you expresly affirme Appropriated to the Apostles or els bid Scripture and all Christianity fare well And so you cannot haue certainty of this particular that God requires the saied condition of loue and Obedience 85. But to answer directly I say you miscite the words of S. John while you distinguish only by a comma If you loue me keepe my commandements from the following words And I will ask my Father and he shall giue you an other Paraclete whereas both in our and in the Protestants English Bible they are distinct Sections or Verses thus N. 15 If you loue me keep my commandements And then N. 16. And I will aâ—k the Father and he will giue you an other Paraelete Where it appeares that the condition is not If you loue me I will ask the Father and he will giue you c. as you set it downe and there vpon affirme that the Promise is restrayned to those only that loue God and keep his commandements but the condition or rather Assirmation or Consequence is this If you loue me keep my commandements And so the sense is very plain and perfect and the condition is terminated in the same N. 15. And that these words If you loue me keep my commandements render a perfect sense is manifest of it self and by the like Texts of Scripture as in the same Evangelist Cap. 15. N. 14. You are my friends if you doe the things that I command you and V. 10. If you keep my precepts you shall abide in my Loue. As contrarily the holy Ghost is promised absolutely in this C 14. V. 26. The Paraclete the Holy Ghost shall teach you all things And in the argument prefixed before this Chapter in the Protestants English Bible printed Ann 1622. it is sayed Christ N. 15. requireth loue and Obedience 16. Promiseth the Holy Ghost the comforter without expressing any dependance of the saied Promise V. 15. vpon loue and obedience V. 16. As also Joan 16.13 which Text is alledged both by Charity Maintayned and Dr. Potter it is saied without any condition when he the Spirit of Truth commeth he shall teach you all Truth And Matth 16.18 these words The gates of Hell shall not prevaile against her which both
do you N. 81. say to Him of the same words Seeing you modestly conclude from hence not that your Church is but only seemes to be vniversally infallible meaning to yourself Therefore I willingly grant your Conclusion But of the intention and meaning of Charity Maintayned in alledging the saied Texts of Scripture for the infallibility of the Church we haue saied enough already 107. I wonder you are so vnjust as to say we proue the Church to be infallible because she is infallible seing our Doctrine is this That we first proue the Church to be infallible and then infer that whatsoever she teaches being true and that among other points she teaches one is her owne infallibility we may beleeue it even for her Authority as I shewed you must say the same of Scripture if once you belieue it to be the word of God CHAP XIII THAT THE CREED CONTAINES NOT ALL POINTS NECESSARILY TO BE BELIEVED IN ANSWER TO HIS FOVRTH CHAPTER 1. REpetition of the same thing will not I hope seeme either needless or fruiteless when it is necessary for some good purpose and effect I doe therfore intreate the Reader now as I haue done heretofore not to looke on the words and arguments of Cha Ma as they are cited and abbreviated and obscured and in a word disadvantaged to say no worse by Mr. Chillingworth but as they are delivered by the Author himself 2. Your first ten Numbers or Sections I omitt as contayning nothing which hath not bene answered already Only I wish you had declared what your vnderstand in your N. 2. by these words Every one of the fundamentall Rules of good life and action is to be believed to come from God and therfore virtually includes an article of Faith For if those Rules be revealed they do not only virtually include an article of Faith but they are properly and formally objects and articles of Divine Faith If they be not revealed by God they are no more articles or objects of Faith than a thing not visible can be the object of our eyes or a thing without sound or not audible the object of our eares c. You say they come from God and therefore include virtually an Article of Faith If you meane they come from God as he is the efficient Cause of all things that is common to all Creatures and therefore not sufficient to include an article of Faith If they come from God as revealing and testifying them to be true they are formall Objects of Faith as I saied and do not only virtually include an Article of Faith But it may be feared that in these words there lurkes some hidden poyson as if the rules of good life and action as they are knowen by the light of naturall Reason and not as they are revealed and so become formall Objects of Faith were sufficient to direct our life for bringing vs to salvation and that no supernaturall knowledg were necessary No less obscure are your other words that Fundamentall Doctrines of Faith are such as though they haue influence vpon our lives as every essentiall Doctrine of Christianity hath yet we are commanded to belieue them and not to doe them For by these words how do you distinguish Credenda from agenda if both haue influence vpon our lives and in neither of them the act of our vnderstanding or assent is that which we doe but only it is the act which directs vs to doe other things and so hath influence vpon our lives But these things I omitt and come to 3. Your N. 11. wherin you say to C Ma Your distinction between points necessary to be believed and necessary not to be disbelieved is more subtile than sound a distinction without a difference There being no point necessary to be believed which is not necessary not to be disbelieved Answer this last is very true For in that case there concurrs both the Affirmatiue precept of exercicing an explicite act of Faith and the Negatiue of not disbelieving any truth revealed by God But that which you ad nor no point to any man at any time in any circumstances necessary not to be disbelieved but it is to the same man at the same tyme in the same circumstances necessary to be believed is manifestly vntrue For when it is proposed to ones vnderstanding that God hath revealed some Truth he may truly judge that there is no affirmatiue Precept which obliges him at that tyme to exercise any act of Faith about that partioular object and therfore may resolue to abstaine or forbeare to produce any such assent of Faith but think of something els and may haue reason to doe so v.g. if some act of an other vertue be more pressing at that tyme and yet he should sinne damnably if he did positively dissent And so at the same tyme it may be necessary not to disbelieue some Truth and yet not be necessary actually to belieue it It is disputed in the schooles whether the will can stay the vnderstanding from yealding assent to a conclusion deduced evidently from evident Premisses But no man can doubt whether the will may draw our vnderstanding from a positiue actuall assent to the Objects of Faith which are so obscure that they require a pious affection in the will which therfore may dissent ād are so difficult that for every act of faith we need the particular supernaturall assistance of the Holy Ghost and then what wonder is it that we may abstaine from doing that which is not in our sole power to performe and to which we are forced neither metaphysically as I haue shewed nor morally because we suppose there is no affirmatiue precept to exercise such an act of Faith in those circumstances It seemes you haue a mynd against all Divines to make no difference between the affirmatiue and Negatiue Precept of Faith wherof Cha. Ma. speakes Part 1. Chap 3. N. 2. and what he saieth may be applied to our present purpose and who will say That every one is alwayes obliged to be exercising a positiue act of Faith vpon all those objects which he can never disbelieue May not a man reading or hearing some part of Scripture only conceiue it per primam apprehensionem without affirming or denying as when one learnes without Booke or only considers the phrase or writes as at a copie and the like 4. You continue your discourse and say to Charity Maintayned Yet that which I belieue you would haue saied I acknowledg true that many points which are not necessary to be believed absolutely are yet necessary to be believed vpon a supposition that they are knowen to be revealed by God that is become then necessary to be believed when they are knowen to be Divine Revelations But Ch. Ma hath no reason to accept as a favour this explication of yours which containes false doctrine as if all truths became necessary to be believed by an explicite actuall belief when they are known to be divine Revelations
Holy Scripture 7. I need say no more to your N. 19. than only that seing you and Dr. Potter pretend that the Creed containes only Credenda and not Agenda you further men no more towards salvation than one who would bring you half way to your journeyes end and then for your greater comfort tell you that neither hee or any other could conduct you further as in this place you doe first referring him to Scripture for full satisfaction and then telling him that to giue a particular Catalogue of Fundamentall is impossible Of the difference betwene the Catalogue which Ch. Ma. gives and that which you assigne I haue spoken hertofore 8. Your N. 20. is but a passage to your following N. 21.22.23.24 Wherein you heape words vpon words and Syllogisme vpon Syllogisme rather to amuse or amaze than instruct the Reader But all will vanish into nothing by these considerations 1. That the belief of some points may be necessary for the Church though not for every particular person which therefore if the Creed doth not containe it caÌ„not be saied to comprehend all necessary points 2. When question is whether the Creed containe all Fundamentall Articles it must be vnderstood in such manner as by it alone we may be sure to know all Fundamentall points and consequently 3. that by it alone we may know the true sense of all such points 4. That yet as Ch. Ma shewes N. 4.5 it is impossible to know by the Creed alone the meaning of all necessary Articles as is manifest by the disagreement of Protestants from Catholiques and amongst themselves 5. That therefore the Creed without Tradition and interpretation of the Church is so farre from enabling vs to belieue all Fundamentall points that men left to themselves would be sure to take occasion thereby of many Errours and Heresies as experience hath taught the world But if you take the Creed with the Living voyce Tradition and declaration of the Church it cannot availe you who reject the Authority of the Church 6. Whatsoever the ancient Fathers or moderne Writers deliver concerning the sufficiency of the Creed for matters of Faith they alwayes take it with the Tradition of the Church and so not the Creed alone but the Creede with Tradition is that of which they speake and therefore are so farre from speaking home to your purpose that in every one of their sentences they oppose your Assertion concerning the Creed which is so clearely true that you procede to the abandoning and euen opposing Dr. Potter for mentioning the explanation of the Creed by Councells or the Church Neither can you with any shadow of reason proue that it was necessary the Creed should contayne all necessary points of Faith vnless first you begg an other Question that the Church is not infallible For if she be infallible as most certainly she is we shall be sure that in all occasions she will supply what is not expressed in the Creed as we saied of Scripture neither is it our parte to examine why the Apostles set not downe all particulars as it is cleare they haue delivered some points of less moment than are diverse mysteryes of our Saviours life omitted by them and will you ask them why did you so 7. We may infer out of what hath bene saied That although the Articles contayned in the Creed may seeme to be comprized in a small compass if we respect the words yet if we consider the sense and such maine Articles as haue connexion with them they cannot be declared in few words but must be declared by Catechists Pastors Doctors and in a word by the Church in proofe whereof I referr the Reader to Châ—ma N. 4.5.6 where he shall see how many necessary points are implyed in one of the Articles of the Creed 9. These Observations being premised together with what Charity Maintayned notes N. 9. That all points of Faith may be saied to be contained in the Creed in some sense as for example implicitely generally or in some such involved manner For when we belieue the Catholique Church we do implicitely belieue whatsoever she proposeth as belonging to Faith Or els by way of reduction c. All your objections are answered For when Charity Maintoyned N. 8. affirmes That the Creed containes such generall heads as were most fitting and requisite for preaching the Faith of Christ to Iewes and Gentiles c. He means not of the bare words but of the sense as he expresly declares N. 4. and 5. which meaning we are to receyue from the Church declaring in all occasions what occurs necessary to salvation and so as I saied there was no necessity that all necessary points should be contayned in the Creed otherwise than in some generall manner v.g. in the Article of the Church as herefore we saied out of S. Austine concerning Scripture and as Repentance the Sacrament of Baptisme and Pennance which are to be reckoned inter Agenda are implied in the Article of Remission of sinnes as Potter Pag. 237. saieth that the Eucharist is evidently included in the Communion of Saynts and yet Pag. 235. he teaches that the Sacraments are rather to be reckoned among the Agenda of the Church than the credenda And vitam aeternam may signify not only that we beleue but also that we Hope for that Life yea Ch. ma. N. 5. shewes that in the Article of our Saviours being Redeemer are contayned many other chiefe points belonging to practise or Agenda As likewise the Article of the Church containes Governement Discipline Power to excommunicate c. so that there is no necessity to vnderstand the Creed only of speculatiue Objects and then what reason can you giue why some Agenda are implied and not other And so your discourse N. 22. which goes vpon this ground that the Creed containes meerely Credenda vanisheth into nothing and Ch. Ma. neither needs nor can accept your explication of his words when you make him say which was to comprehend all such generall heads of Faith which being points of simple belief were most fit and requisite c. whereas He N. 8. which heer you cite hath no such limitation to points of simple belief as may be seene not only in Ch. ma. but also in the beginning of your N. 21. where you profess to serdowne his words Only in the end of his saied N. 8. he cites the Dostrine of Potter that the Creed contaynes only credenda Neither will you be able to find in all Ch. ma. that he ever reaches that the Creed containes only such Articles as are meerely speculatiue but only mentions it as taught by Potter nor haue you any reason to exact of him Ch. Ma. that he should haue added the particles all or some seing his Propositions though seeming indefinite yet were sufficiently declared by the matter and circumstances And therefore I must put you in mynd that you take too much vpon you when you giue this Title to this Chapter That the Creed
And thē further it followes that you must recall your Doctrine and say that if the Church may fall into errour not damnable to her it must be in case it be invincible and yet it cannot be invincible if she haue sufficient Assistance to lead her into all not only necessary but profitable truth and therfore you must deny that she hath such an assistance and we must conclude that by not erring in any fundamentall point she performes her duty to God and so can not be forsakē without Schisme For you doe not deny the proposition of Ch Ma N. 20. that the externall Communion of the Church cannot be forsaken as long as she performes the duty which she oweth to God Besides how doe you not contradict yourselfe in saying Who is ther that can put her in sufficient caution that these errours about profitable matters may not bring forth others of higher quality such as are pernicious and pestilent and vndermine by secret consequences the very Foundations of Religion and piety For if the errours be such as you describe they come to be concerning things not only profitable but necessary as vndermining the very foundations of Religion and therfor to say she erres culpably in them is to say that she erres damnably and fundamentally and you must say she erres culpably if she haue assistance sufficient to avoid them By this discourse and other points handled heretofore is answered your N. 62.63 as also your N. 64.65.66.67.68.69.70.71.72.73 only it is to be observed that N. 64. you paralell the security of private men from errour in fundamentalls to that of the vniversall Church And N. 68. you will not see the reason of a consequence deduced by Ch. Ma. which had been very cleare if you had set downe his words which are these N. 22. P. 185. Since it is not lawfull to leaue the communion of the Church for abuses in life and manners because such miseries cannot be avoyded in this world of temptation and since according to your Assertion no Church may hope to triumph over all sinne and errour and I add what the Doctour sayth Pag 39. that it is a great vanity to hope or expect that all learned men in this life should absolutely consent in all the pieces of Divine truth you must grant that as she ought not to be left by reason of sinne so neither by reason of errours not fundamētall because both sinne and errour are according to you impossible to be avoided till she be in heaven and that it is a great vanity to hope or expect the contrary in this life And is not this a cleare consequence The Church cannot be forsaken for sinnes because they cannot be avoided in this life therfor seing errours at least in not fundamentalls cannot be avoyded in this life the Church cannot be forsaken for them 20. To your N. 72. it is sufficient to say that although we must not doe evill to avoide evill yet when a position is such as evill cannot but follow of it ex natura rei it is a clear argument that such a Position includes falshood and errour Now as Ch. Ma. proves N. 24. your grounds doe of their owne nature giue scope to perpetuall Schismes and divisions And then the consequence is cleare that they are false and erroneous His words which you by abbreviating make ineffectuall are they who separate themselves will answet as you doe prompt that your Church may be forsaken if she fall into errours though they be not Fundamentall and further that no Church must hope to be free from such errours which two grounds being once layd it will not be hard to inferr the consequence that she may be forsaken 21. All that N. 74.75.76.77 you vtter with too much heate is answered by putting you in minde that Ch. Ma. never affirmes that Protestants say the cause of their separation and their motiue to it was absolutely and independently of any separation precisely because they did not cut her of from hope of salvation as you impose vpon him for which foolish reason even Catholiks might be sayd to be Schismatiks from their owne Church because they are sure she is not cut of from hope of salvation but that supposing their separation from vs vpon other causes for example pretended corruptions they pretend to be excused from Schisme and say they did well to forsake her because they doe not hold that she is cut of from hope of salvation Which to be true he C Ma shewes out of Potters words And yourselfe P. 284 N 75. say to C Ma can you not perceaue a difference betweene justifying his separation from Schisme by this reason and making this the reason of his separation And whosoever reads Ch Ma N. 27. will finde that which I say to be true For he expresly sayth that both they who doe and doe not cut of the Church of Rome from hope of salvation agree in the effect of separation Only this effect of separation being supposed without which ther could be no imaginable Schisme they doe alleadge for their excuse that they did it in a different manner because the one part of which we speake conceaved that though they did separate yet they should be excused from Schisme because they did not cut of from hope of salvation the Roman Church ād so this was the motiue or reason for which they judged they might separate from her without the sinne of Schisme and consequently they would not haue done it if they had not had this reason or motiue and consideration wherby to excuse themselves Thus your examples of one saying to his Brother I doe well to leaue you because you are my Brother or of a subject saying to his Soveraigne Lord I doe well to disobey you because I acknowledge you to be my lawfull Soveraigne are meere perversions of Ch. Ma. his words who sayth truly against Potter that if one should part from his Brother vpon some cause and excuse such his departure from fault because he still acknowledges him to be his Brother or if a subject should disobey his Soveraigne vpon some motiue and then should thinke to justify his fact by saying he still acknowledges him to be his lawfull Soveraigne C Ma I say affirmes that such an excuse may justly seeme very strange and rather fit to aggravate then to extenuate or excuse the departure of the one from his Brother and disobedience of the other to his Souveraigne And yet this is our case For both the violent and moderate Protestants agree in the same effect of separation from the Roman Church and disobedience to her Pastours with this only difference that the one sorte sayth that she is cut of from the hope of Salvation and the other sayes she is not and pretend to be excused from Schisme because they say so though they separate themselves from her no lesse then the other doe 22. To your N. 78.79 I answer that when the Fathers and Divines teach that
advice of humility it being time enough for them to know and reflect that S. Peter was their Head by that expresse future declaration of our Saviour Joan 21. 38. Thirdly You would proue that S. Peter was not Head of the rest because the Scripture sayth God hath appointed first Apostles secondly Prophets but sayth not God hath appointed First Peter then the rest of the Apostles which to speake truth is a childish reason it being cleare that the Scripture in that place doth not compare the Apostles among themselves but with other degrees in the Church as Prophets Doctours c. Otherwise you might proue that one Magistrate can not be subordinate and subject to another if one for example should say the commonwealth consists of Magistrates and people because forsooth in that division you doe not expresse the authority of one Magistrate aboue another 39 Fourthly you say S. Paul professeth himself to be nothing inferior to the very chiefest Apostles and if S. Peter was Head of the Apostles it was a wonder that S. Paul should so farre forget S. Peter and himself as that mentioning him often he should doe it without any title of Honour But I beseech you can you belieue that S. Paul would say of himself that he was not inferiour to the chiefest of the Apostles absolutely and in all things He accounted himself to be the first and chiefest amongst sinners and laments that he had bene a persecutor of Christians and will you needs vnderstand him to say that in such respects he was not inferiour to the other Apostles who were innocent of those things He was an Apostle as the others were and that is all you can vnderstand by his words and all that makes just nothing to the purpose But S. Paul mentions S. Peter without any Title of honour No more doth he giue any title to S. James though he were Bishop of Hierusalem which surely deserves some honour if the simplicity of those blessed tymes had bene accustomed to testify honour by titles Yourself say heere S. Peter might be head of the Apostles that is first in order and honour among them and not haue supreme Authority over them and Protestants easily grant that he had that Priviledg of being first in order and honour how then will your answer your owne objection that it was a wonder S. Paul should mention him without any title of honour seing particular honour was due to him even by our Saviours command For from what other cause could it proceede But shall I disclose to you a mystery on which it seemes you do not reflect Our Saviour whose words are operatiue and deeds by calling S. Peter Cephas or a Rock had also made him such and saied Tues Petrus Thou art a Rock and vpon this Rock I will build my Church so that to name Peter is to call him the Foundation and head of the Church and all Christians and with what greater title of honour could any body mention any Creature we may therefore say of S. Peter as S. Ambrose saieth of the title of Martyr De Uirginibus Lib. 1. Quot homines tot praecones qui Martyrem praedidicant dum loquuntnr To name one a martyr is a title of honour and so it is to name Peter for the foresaied Reason 40. You conclude Though we should grant against all these probabilities and many more fooleries say I not probabilities that Optatus meant that S. Peter was head of the Apostles not in our but your sense and that S. Peter indeed was so yet still you are very farre from shewing that in the judgment of Optatus the Bishop of Rome was to be at all much less by Divine Right Successor to S. Peter in this his Headship and Authority For what incongruity is there if we say he might succeed S. Peter in that part of his care the Government of that particular Church as sure he did even while S. Peter was living and yet that neither he nor any man was to succeed in his Apostleship nor in his government of the Church vniversall Especially seing S. Peter and the rest of the Apostles by laying the foundation of the Church were to be the foundation of it and accordingly are so called in Scripture And therefore as in abuilding it is incongruous that foundation should succeed foundation so it may be in the Church that any other Apostle should succeed the first 41. Answer If you suppose as for the present you doe that S. Peter by our Saviours institution and consequently by divine right was Head of the Apostles you should not say what incongruity is there but what incongruity is there not if we say that the Bishop of Rome might succeed S. Peter only in the Government of that particular Church For what can be more incongruous and foolish than to imagine that S. Peter was ordained by our Saviour Head of the Apostles and the whole Church only for his life time when there was no need and as we may saie litle vse thereof seing all the Apostles had Jurisdiction over all Christians and Power to preach the Gospell through the whole world and so the necessity of such vniversall Power in S. Peter must haue relation to future Ages after the death of the Apostles and if it must still reside in some in whom can you imagine it to be seated except in him whom you deny not to be Successor of S. Peter for the Church of Rome And that Optatus supposed the vniversall Power of S. Peter to remaine in his Successors appeares by his words which I haue pondered aboue as also because he speakes of the Sea or Chaire of Rome as of the Rule whereby to judg of heresies and Schismes not only for the tyme of S. Peter but for ever and therefore he sets downe a Catalogue of the Bishops of Rome only and saith Cathedra vnica quae est prima de dotibus sedit prior Petrus cui successit Linus Lino successit Clemens Clementi Anacletus c and so goes on till his owne ayme And I would gladly know by what text of Scripture you can proue that the Power of S. Peter over the whole Church was so particular and personall to him that it ceased with his person Will you haue vs measure matters of Faith with your congruities or incongruities With your Socinian topicall humane vaine discourses What meane you by these words as sure he the Bishop of Rome did even while S Peter was living I will not examine heere whether or in what manner Linus and Cletus were Bishops of Rome before S. Peters death wherof may be seene Baronius Anno 69. who saieth they were not Romanae sedis episcopi but only Coadjutores I beseech you remember what you saied N. 98. and 99. interpreting S. Cyprian and S. Optatus that in one particular Church at once there ought to be but one Bishop and certainly it is no consequence The Bishop of Rome appointed by S. Peter for Rome and supplying
than words even that Maximianus who succeeded your wicked great Grandfather Nestorius in the Sea of Constantinople was a monk and a holy man and farre from being a parasite and an Embassage was sent to Rome from him the Emperour and people in congratulation of the victory gotten chiefly by meanes of Pope Caelestinus against Nestorius all which declared the Authority of the Roman Church 1200 yeares agoe though you tell vs you cannot beleeue it aÌ„d though you take notice of Maximianus who succeeded Nestorius yet you thought fit to dissemble this Embassage c. Whereof more may be seene in Baronius Ann 431.432 Your answer given N. 37. to the Anthority cited by Ch. Ma. out of John Patriarch of Constantinople cannot satisfy any who reads his words and your answer which is so evident that I need say no more 34. For answer to your N. 38.39.40.41 if in any occasion particularly in this I must intreate the Reader not to trust your summing vp the Discourse of Ch Ma N. 20.21.22.23 but to trust only his owne eyes which if he doe I am sure he will finde all that you object against vs in the saied Numbers to be answered already when we proved that Faith is the Gift of God and that in the ordinary course of Gods Providence it is exauditu by the preaching of Pastors Prelats Doctors c. And the necessity of a perpetuall succession of Bishops in the true Church besides what hath bene saied heretofore appeares by the confession of the best learned Protestants as may be seene in Brereley Tract 2. Sect 6. and Tract 2. Cap 3. Sect 4. and Tract 2. Cap 2. Sect 3. Subdivis 2. No man can doubt but that God may teach vs in what manner he pleases but seing de facto he will haue men to be taught by men aÌ„d that Faith is his Gift as we proved in the Introduction we shall be sure never to attaine this inward gift otherwise than by those outward meanes nor can we belieue the Doctrine of Christ without the Introduction of Teachers appointed and taught by his Holy Spirit Neither doth if follow that by this meanes one should be necessitated to be an Heretique because that there should haue bene a perpe â—uall Succession of believers in all points Orthodox is not a thing which is in our power as you argue most weakely and seing Protestants teach that Heresie is a deviation from Scripture and that it is not in the power of man to conserue Scripture incorrupted Protestants may be Heretiques whether they will or no if your objection were of any force And why do you not make this argument Men cannot sinne vnles they exist and be in their right witts But that a man be in his right witts or exist is not in his Power for who can be his owne creator Therefore sinning or not sinning depends not on these things As therefore men may be Heretiques and sinners because de facto God conserves Scripture and preserves men in their being so seing he hath promised to conserue his Church without errour against Faith and gives every one sufficient grace to follow her Directions if they refuse to doe so they become Heretiques by their owne free-will not by any necessity Your saying By this reason you should say as well that no man can be a good Bishop or Pastour or King or Magistrate or Father that succeeds a bad one is manifestly impertinent seing the Direction of Faith is not the personall life but the publik Definition and doctrine of such as God hath appointed to be our Guides and whom he hath commanded vs to obey 36. Seing your N. 39. containes only a heap or rabble of demands without telling vs what you hold I were much to blame If I would spend time about theÌ„ especially I having proved out of Fathers and learned Protestants that the true Church cannot subsist without a succession of Bishops which is the point you desire should be proved before you answer the argument of Ch. Ma. and your owne demands whereof I must tell you in generall some are ridiculous some dangerous and tending to confusion some begg the Question some containe shrewd insinuations against the necessity of Bishops some are evidently fals and all of no force against vs. You ask whether Ch Ma in saying the Donatists Sect was confined to Africa do not forget himself and contradict what he saied N 17. that they had some of their Sect residing in Rome But this is a poore contradiction For even D. Potter Pag 125. cites S. Austine affirming that the Donatists held the Church to haue perished through the whole world except in their Sect in Africa and Pag 126. the Doctor denies not but they had some of their Sect in Rome and you expresly affirme it yet because they were so few as could not make any considerable number it may well be saied that their Sect de facto was confined to Africa as they were wont to say and as Ch Ma must speake in their sense concerning them and he is expresly warranted by S. Optatus Lib 2. saying that the Donatists Bishop in Rome was Episcopus sine populo Non enim grex aut populus appellandi fuerant pauci qui inter quadraginta quod excurrit basilicas locum vbi colligerent non habebant 37. All that is materiall in your N 40. hath bene answered heretofore to your small credit You haue no reason to alter the Translation of Ch. Ma. of the words of Tertullian How is it likely that so many and so great Churches should erre in one Faith Quid vetisimile est vt tot ac tantae in vnam Fidem erraverint Which you say should be translated should erre into one Faith For it is certaine that your obscure expression should erre into one Faith must signifie that it is not likely so many different Churches agreeing should erre in that Faith in which they agree which is according to the cleare expression of Ch Ma And it is cleare that the reason why they could not erre into one Faith must be because error could not consist with one Faith for if it could they might erre into one Faith and so your Translation if it be good must be beholding to his expression You say in the Pag 362. that the Roman Church is Catholique to herself alone and Hereticall to all the rest of Christian Churches and in this Pag 332. N. 11. you say It is not Heresy to oppose any Truth propounded by the Church but only such a Truth as is an essentiall part of the Gospell of Christ Which sentences put together conclude the Roman Church to want what is essentiall to a Church and yet you expresly teach in other parts of your Book that she errs not in essentiall or fundameÌ„tall points How will you saue yourself from a contradiction in this As also in your saying that it is not Heresy to oppose any truth but only such a truth as in an essentiall part