power it consequently followeth that our Election to vs is vncertaine Since God thus pronounceth c Ezech. 18. Yf the iust man do turne away from his righteousnes c. in his sinne he shall die Thus through our owne frailty and indisposition not answering at all tymes to Gods holy inspirations and grace our Election to vs is euer vncertayne though as aboue said in respect of Gods promise we fulfilling the annexed Conditions thereto most certayne and consequently it followeth that we cannot be assured of Saluation by fayth seeing fayth is infallible but only by Hope which through our coopâ—rating with Gods grace and assistance is not infallibly 〈◊〉 neâ—â—â—theles it is 〈◊〉 with grâ—â—â— comfort confidence Now here once for all you are to conceaue that diuâ—â—â— sayings of God either touching Preâ—â—stinatio or Reprobation though in wordâ— they seeme absolute yet in sense are â—â—ly Conditionall In proofe of which my assertion I will alleage a place of Ezâ—chiel c. 33. which as a Comment well may seeme to expounde all such seâ—ming absolute Texts of this naturâ— God Almighty words in Ezechiel 〈◊〉 these When I shall say unto the righteoâ—â— that he shall surely liue if yet he trust 〈◊〉 vnto his owne righteousnes commit 〈◊〉 c. he shall dye Againe When I 〈◊〉 say vnto the wicked thou sâ—â—t dye the death Yf yet he returne from his sinnes and dâ—â— that which is right c. he â—hall surely 〈◊〉 So clearely doth the Prophet instruâ—â— vs that all such seeming absolute sayings in Scripture haue euer by impâ—â—cation some Conditions annexed 〈◊〉 to Now this being the true state of thâ— Question and illustrated with the â—â—plication of Ezechiel begin to impuâ—â— it from Holy Writ at your plasurâ— which you shall neuer be able to 〈◊〉 Enthusiastus Well then the first passage of diuine Scripture which I will alledge shal be that of the Apostle to the Corinthians d 2. Corinth c. 13. Try your selues if you be in the fayth proue you your selues know you not your selues that Christ Iesus is in you vnles perâ—aps you be Reprobates Arminius I answere heerto first admitting that this Text did prooue that Christ was in the Corinthians according to â—is grace of Iustification yet the Text â—roueth that only for the time present â—ut whether the Corinthians might after â—oose that grace or not or want finall â—erseuerance which is the point heer only questioned this Text nothing toucheth and therefore you may see â—hat granting more touching the expoâ—ition of the Text then I need to doe â—et the Answere is inuolued in the state â—n the Question aboue set downe And â—ccordingly heer to this knowledge of â—s being in the fayth if the wordes â—ere to be interpreted in that sense 〈◊〉 to be restrained only to the tyme present but for our continuance in the fayth the Text speaketh nothing Secondly I reply that this knowledge of the Corinthians that Christ waâ— in them hath reference only of Christ being in them by way of e 2. Cor. c. 12. Signeâ—â— wonders and mighty deeds done among them which if they did not acknowledge they were Reprobates And thaâ— this knowledge of Châ—st being in theÌ„ cannot be referred according to his grace of Iustification is most cleare in that S. Paul would neuer then haue â—â—buked and reprehended the Corinthiaâ— in so full and grieuous a manner as 〈◊〉 find that in the same f Ibid. â— 1â— Epistle he diâ— Thus much heerof Enthusiastus I take this your answere for sufficiâ—â— for I see the Text if the scope of the Epistle be precisely obserued precludetâ— me of al reply but what say you to 〈◊〉 other passage of Scripture where 〈◊〉 Apostle speaketh of himself in this 〈◊〉 confident manner g Rom. 8. I know * Obiected by M. Iewell in his Apology of the Church of England pa. 78. thâ—â— lyfe nor death c shall be able to re none 〈◊〉 from that loue that God beareth to me 〈◊〉 Christ What greater assurednesse coâ—lâ— the Apostle vtter of his saluation 〈◊〉 this Arminius To this I shape a double answere First admitting that these words should be meaÌ„t of the certainty of knowledge yet they do not prooue the particuler knowledge which our aduersaries do pretend that euery one of the Elect should haue of himselfe only My reason heerof is because these words are deliuered by the Apostle touching his knowledge aswell of others as himself For the words are not shall be able to reâ—oue me but shall be able to remoue vs the Apostle speaking thus in the person of â—he Elect and not of himselfe only But â—ouching the saluation of the Elect there â—s no controuersy betweene vs and our Aduersaries Secondly and more punctually I reply and affirme that in the Greeke of â—he former Text it is only Persuasus 〈◊〉 and not Certus sum for the Greeke â—ord vsed by S. Paul is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—hich signifieth in English I am perâ—â—aded And thus the certainty of â—nowledge which this Text affordeth 〈◊〉 only of Persuasion Hope but not of â—ayth or infallible knowledge which is the point only here issuable That thâ— Text signifyeth only I am persuaded not I am certaine is so euident that the English Bibles printed anno Doâ— 1576. and 1590. do read with me in thâ—â— very place I am persuaded Yea Bâ—â— himselfe in his Translation of the Neâ— Testament in this place translateth h Printed at London anno 1587. Mihi persuasum est So little dotâ— this Text proue for infallibility of Saluation Lastly I may say that granting 〈◊〉 Paul here spake of the certainty of 〈◊〉 owne Saluation yet it may be well answered that this certainty in regard 〈◊〉 his high fauour with God he had 〈◊〉 reuelation only and not by force of 〈◊〉 ordinary fayth as our Aduersaries 〈◊〉 pretend to haue Enthusiastus I will proceed further i 1. Iohn 5. Thâ—â— things I write vnto you that you may knoâ— that you haue eternall life which belieue 〈◊〉 the name of the Sonne of God Arminius To this I answere First that 〈◊〉 Eternall life may be here vnderstooâ— knowledge of God which the faithfull haue according as we read in S. Iohns Ghospell k C. 17. This is life euerlasting that they know thee Secondly I say That True Belieuers haue eternall life not actually since they do not actually enioy Heauen but only in Hope according as it iâ— els where said l Rom. 8. We are saued by hope For that if we will attayne eternall life actually and indeed our perseuerance in fayth is necessarily required of which perseueraÌ„ce this passage of Scripture intimateth no certainty since according to the words of m Ezech. 33. Ezeâ—hiel aboue cited this Text as many more implyes in it a Condition to be performed and consequently it proâ—eth no certainty or infallibility of mans Election Enthusiastus We thus read that the Apostle sayth n Rom. 8. We haue
Predestination But it is aboue â—rooued that no man can tell whether â—e be worthy of hate or loue in respect of his present Iustice or state in this world much lesse can he be certayne whether he be worthy of hate or loue â—n respect of Gods decree which decree â—yeth in the Abismall depth of his owne â—udgment My second Argument We can haue no certaine knowledge of such â—hings as depend of the will of God â—ut only by manifest reuelation of God himselfe But Predestination doth depend of the will of God Therefore Predestination is to man vncertaine Yf you reply that God hath reuealed by â—is spirit in the Scripture that all those who rightly belieue and liue well shall haue eternall life and beatitude I grant â—his is true but I deny that God euer â—euealed in Scripture that all those who â—y they belieue do rightly belieue and liue 〈◊〉 they ought For if it were sufficient to say I do belieue and liue as I â—â—ght to 〈◊〉 then should all Heretikes be â—aued 〈◊〉 euery of them will say that he belieueth and liueth as he ought Thâ—â— much for some delibation and tast 〈◊〉 what Arguments omitting diuers others may be drawne from reason 〈◊〉 proofe of this verity But in this next place I will come to the Testimonies of many Protestantâ— accomplished in the highest degree with learning who through the weigâ—â— of diuine and humane Authority â—â—ged in proofe of so warrantable 〈◊〉 Truth haue in the end vpon their more retired and impartiall Iudgments paâ—sed thereupon wholy comparted with vs in the doctrine heere maintained And to begin with those who are commonly called Caluinists we fynd that Snecanus and Hemingius two learnâ—â— Caluinists are so full in this doctrine oâ— the vncertainty of Saluation ' that D. Wâ—â—let our Aduersary herein â— thus reâ—â—â—hendeth them p In his â—â—â—ops p. 8â—1 These Patrones of â—â—niuersall Grace and conditionall Election 〈◊〉 consequently hould that men may loose 〈◊〉 Election and Faith Hemingius p. 30. 〈◊〉 same is also maintayned by â—necanus ◠〈◊〉 â—hus far D. Willet D. Harsenet is so full 〈◊〉 our doctrine that he preached in proofe thereof a Sermo at Pauls Crosse â— M. Perkins though our Aduersary 〈◊〉 this doctrine yet through racke of â—â—uth is thus forced to confesse of the 〈◊〉 r M. Perkins in his foure Treatises necessarily to be considered of all Christians Treatise foorth sect 14. This Testimony of being persuaded that we are adopted chosen in Christ c. is weake in most men and can scarcely 〈◊〉 persuaded And of the Reprobate who â—ake themselues to be in the number of â—he Elect he further thus teacheth s In the epist to the Rendâ—r in the beginning of therfore said Booke They may do outwardly all things which 〈◊〉 Christians do They do willingly subiect theÌ„selues to the Ministry of the word are 〈◊〉 forward as any and as ioyfull in frequenâ—ing sermons c. They are also voyd of Hypocrisy and herein dissemble not that fayth â—â—ich they haue not but rather shew that â—ayth which they haue Thus a man being in this state may decâ—aue himselfe and the most godly in the world which haue the greatest gift of discerning how they and â—heir brethren stand be fore the Lord. Thus M. Perkins And according to this his doctrine â—he Anabaptists who were burned in â—mithfyeld euen at their death vaunted â—f the certainty of their Saluation and yet were therein deceaued 〈…〉 iudgment of t Calu. cont Anabaptist p. 110. 111. Caluin But to proceâ—â— to others Musculus the great Proâ—â—stant doth thus teach of this point u In loc Com. loc de Peccato sect â— 20. Yf he who hath beene made partaker of the Heauenly grace do fall from that Grace 〈◊〉 of a iust and faythfull man do became 〈◊〉 iust and vnfâ—ythfull c. this mans conscience the purity of fayth being lost 〈◊〉 made guilty vnto damnation And M. Robert Rollock once Rectour of the Vniuersity of Edenburgh a man muâ—â— esteemed by Beza thus writeth x In his booke of Lectures vpon the epist of Paul to the Colossianâ— Lect. 6. c. â— p. â—4 〈◊〉 tell thee that notwithstanding thou art râ—deemed and by this bloud of Christ fâ—eeâ— from Sinne and death yet if thou taâ—est delight in Sinne the greater shall be thy damnation Now to come to others commonly stiled Lutheranes And to passeouer y â—n Theolog. Caluâ—nist l. â— arâ— 14. Wâ—o there reproueth Caluin Zanâ—hius and the Diuines of Gâ—noua Conradus Schlussenburg z In loâ—iâ— Theolog. pag 188. â— 331. Haffâ—nreffensis Professour in the Vniuersity of Tubing a In disput 7 ex epist Pauli ad Cor. posteriori parte Thâ—fi 5. Rungius Professour in the Vniuersity of Wittemberg b In epitom Colloq Montisbelgar p. 47. 6â— Iacoâ—â— Andraeas c In disput 17. pro sanctissimo libro Concord disput 10. p. 650. Gesnerus Professour in Wâ—tâ—mberg and diuers other learned followers of Luther all maintayning 〈◊〉 vncertainty of Saluation we 〈◊〉 Mclancthon thus expresly to 〈◊〉 â—o d Melanctâ— in Concil Theolog. pag. 112. Excidunt homines à gratia c. Men do fall from Grace and do loose their iustifying grace c. In like sort e In the harmony of Confâ—ssions in English pag. â—24 the Confession of Auspurg condemneth the doctrine of Certainty of Saluation for Anabaptisme And accordingly f In his Disputat Theolog. p. 317. 318. Loâ—echius Doctor and Professour in the Vniuersity of Restocke defendeth our doctrine heerein and he alleadgeth in proofe thereof the Confession of Augusta and diuers Texts of Scripture charging the defendours of the contrary doctrine with Anabapticticall Errour In like sort Kempnitius writeth thus of this point g Kâ—mpnit in his Exâ—m Concil Trident. printed aâ—no 1578. part 2. p. 193. vide part â— pag 19â— True liuely iustifying fayth may be lost and the party made guilty of eternall damnation Finally not to charge your memory with a surplusage of the learned Protestants iudgment heerein the Protestant Diuines of Saxony do in their publike Confession thus teach h In the Harmony oâ— confessions in English p. 80. p. â—33 It is manifest that who are regenerate c. are agayne reiected by God â—nd made subiect to eternall punishment And further i Harmony c. p. 195. Iustification and regeneration may be shaken of and we lose eternall â—â—fe Thus much touching the most learâ—ed Protestants in this matter of Vncerâ—â—ty of Election and Predestination Enthusiastus Indeed I rest halfe amazed at the pregnant Testimonies of so many oâ— our owne learned Brethren in defencâ— of this your doctrine and I freely confesse I would neuer haue belieued that so many of them and of such eminency had with so strong an endeauoâ—â— maintayned the same but that I fyâ—â— you so punctuall and precise in alleadging their owne cleare wordes in 〈◊〉 halfe thereof But I pray
decrâ—â— that among men some be borne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dâ—mnation froÌ„ their mothers wombe who by their destruction may glorify God Arminius This doctrine is of so horrid a nature as that I can hardly be induced to belieue that any good Christian will euer maintayne it in so full a manner as it is by you literally deliuered but rather they teach it with some qualification and mitigation as perhaps their meaning is that God doth ordaine some to destruction by reason of his foresight of their wicked liues And also that Christ did dye for the Reprobate non efficaciter but sufficienter not effectually whereby the Reprobate should actually partake of the benefit of his death if so themselues will but only sufficiently that is that his death was of sufficient valew in it selfe to saue the Reprobate Enthusiastus I would to God Arminius I could thus charitably and withall truly apologize for my owne Brethren as you though their Aduersary herein do now in their behalfe But the matter standeth so as that their owne 〈◊〉 do wholy preclude them of all such â—â—uourable Constructions For first to your firster wordes touching God foresight of the wicked liues of the Reprobate one of them in expresse wordâ— thus writeth t D. Willet in Synops p. 554. God hath ordayned 〈◊〉 to be vessels of wrath without any respect 〈◊〉 to their workes either good or bad And another as plainly teacheth thus saying u Peter Martyr in his Common Places part 3. pa. 12. Sinnes foreseene are not the causâ— of Reprobation And as touching the distinction by you deliuered of Christ suffering sufâ—cienter not efficaciter some of our most learned Brethren I relate it wiâ—â— griefe call this distinction x Beza in Respons ad Act. Colloq Mouâ—isbelg part altera pag. 217. 221. A meâ—â—â—tergiuersation and impertinent to the point in question and therefore the same leaâ—ned maÌ„ restraineth the death of Christ in these wordes ad solos Electos to wiâ—â— that his death was only for the Eleâ—â— Yea they proceed so far herein as that they peremptorily maintayne pardoâ— me in relating their owne words that y Beza in Respons ad Act. Montisbelg part altera in Praefat. pag. 11. 1â—â— many Infants meaning of belieuing Parents though baptized are damned 〈◊〉 the secret decree of God Arminius You haue sufficiently inough laid open your owne Brethrens blemishes and scarres So full hould it seemes those words of Austin hath taken of you z Contrâ— Donatist post Col. â— 24. Truth is more forcible to wring out Confession then any Rack or Torment But now if it please you you may come to your proofes of Scriptures for this their doctrine Only I must tell you by the way that the more direfull and execrable any doctrine is the further off it is from receauing any fortifying from the word of God being deliuered in its true and natiue sense or Construction Enthusiastus I fully graunt so much with you Neuertheles for my owne further satisfying since vnresolued doubts secretly beate vpon the vnderstanding I will relate the chiefest Texts vrged by my Brethren in defence of this their doctrine First then they insist in those wordes a 1. Pet. â— Christ * Obiected by Beza in Annot. in Nou. Testam in 1. Petr. c. â— is the chiefe Corner stone c. vnto you which belieue pretious but vnto them that belieue not c. a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence to them which stumble at the word being disâ—bedient vnto which things they were ordâ—â—ned From hence now they inferrâ—â— that God was the Authour of their dâ—â—obedience to the which disobedieâ—â—â— they were by God ordained and consâ—quently ordayned to damnation the fruit of their disobedience Arminius The difficulty of this Text restâ—â—â— in those last wordes Vnto which thingâ— meaning in your brethrens sense disâ—bedience and stumbling at the Word 〈◊〉 were ordayned But heere I iustify 〈◊〉 Translation is not pure and sincâ—â—â— since the words viz They were ordayned haue true reference vnto those formâ— words vz Which belieue And so thâ— true meaning of this place is that tâ—â— were ordayned to belieue And thus yâ—â— see this place being truly vrged maketh directly against your Brethren Now I iustify this my Answere froâ— the Greeke Text the words are thâ—◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nec credunt 〈◊〉 quo positi sunt The sense thereof being that 〈◊〉 were ordayned to belieue but did not 〈◊〉 point is so euident that diuers learned Protestants do giue the same construction thereof with me For Snecanus reciting the Text in these wordes b In Method descript pag. 701. Nâ—â— credunt in quod positi fuerant neither do they belieue vnto which they were ordayned thus answereth Refertur propriè à doctissimis c. This last clause is properly referred by most learned and Orthodoxall men yea euen by Caluin himselfe to the Iewes who were placed to belieue And the very same Construction thereof is giuen by c In defens Translat pag. 152. 153. 154. Castalio So little doth this Text aduantage your Brethren but rather disaduantage them and yet your Brethrens integrity and candour was wanting in their translating the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were ordayned the word truly signifying only Positi erant But proceed to others Enthusiastus The next shal be that passage d Prouerb apeâ— 16. The Lord * Obiected by D. Fullâ— against the Rhem. Testam in Rom. 9. fol. 2 3. made all things for himselfe euen the wicked for the day of Euill From whence my Brethren deduce that God maketh or createth wicked men to Eternity of damnation which may be truly called The day of Euill Arminius Doe your Brethren â—rge this 〈◊〉 to proue that God maketh 〈◊〉 men to be wicked Yf so how thâ—◠〈◊〉 they free God from being the 〈◊〉 of Sinne A Paradox or rather a blasphâ—â— my e As D. Fulk in his defence of the English Translation pag. 500. D. Whitak contra Duraeum 1. 8. pag. 524 besides that diuers of themselues shame at least in wordes to be reputed Patrones therof directly repugnant to other Texts of Scripture 〈◊〉 where it is said f Psalm 5. Non Deus volens iâ—â—quitatemâ—tues Thou art a God that woâ—â—dest not iniquity Is it not their intentioâ— to draw the foresaid Infâ—rence 〈◊〉 those wordes To what end then 〈◊〉 they alleadge it since it is then in 〈◊〉 respect most impertineÌ„tly vrged Hoâ— doe they extricate themselues out of this Labyrinth Therefore for the better deprehending the true Construction of the foresaid passage we are to conceaue that Gods making or creating of man in the former words hath reference to mans Materiality if I may vse that word that 〈◊〉 to him as he is man abstracting him from his Morality but it hath no refâ—rence to his wickednes so man as he 〈◊〉 man is created by God but as Man is â—icked he cannot be sayd to be created
â—f him since in this later sense God â—â—ould be the cause and Authour of his â—â—ckednes whereas his wickednes is â—â—om himselfe And so if he be wicked â—â—en God ordayneth him to the day of Euill that is to the day of punishment â—nd this he doth for himselfe that is for 〈◊〉 owne glory The lyke saying by Anaâ—â—gy may be vsed of Princes who may 〈◊〉 a restrayned sense be sayd to orâ—aine Malefactours to punishments 〈◊〉 yet the Princes are neither willing â—or Authours of their Subiects offeÌ„ces This our exposition of the former place 〈◊〉 so naturall and genuine as that it is acknowledged for true by g In his Decads in English p. 404. Builinger h In Method Theolog. pag. 438. Hiperius and Philp i â—n his disput Theolog. de Prouidenâ—ia 〈◊〉 sect 1â—7 Marbachius all learned Protestants Enthusiastus What Answere Arminius can be giuen to that at least seeming pregnaÌ„t Text k Rom. 9. Hath not the Potter * M. Willeâ— iâ— Synops 554. power ouer the clay euen of the same lumpe to make one vessell vnto honour and another vnto dishonour What if God witâ—ing to shew his wrath c. suffered with long patience the vessels of wrath ordayned to 〈…〉 Now this place seemeth to â—â—ict 〈◊〉 God euen without any prouisioÌ„ 〈…〉 ordaineth some men being 〈◊〉 the Masse or Lumpe of mankind 〈◊〉 damnation Arminius I will be partly silent herein Aâ—stin with some learned Brethren of 〈◊〉 owne the Apostle himselfe shall 〈◊〉 were thereto for me And first I 〈◊〉 Austin to paraphrase this Text in 〈◊〉 wordes l Epist 10â— ad Paulinum epist 105. ad Sixtum Haec Massa c. Yf this 〈◊〉 he meaning the Masse or Lumpâ—â— whereof the Apostle speaketh were 〈◊〉 indifferent that as it deserued no good 〈◊〉 so it deserued no Euill not without cause iâ— might be thought iniquity that thereof there should be made certaine vessels to dishonour But seeing that by the Freewill of the first man the whole Masse did become guilty of Condemnation it is without doubt of Gods mercy that thereof are made certainâ— Vâ—â—sels to honour c. and of his Iudgâ—â—â—â— meaning his Iustice that other 〈◊〉 are made to dishonour Thus far Austin According to whose iudgment we 〈◊〉 that it is not Gods absolute 〈◊〉 without respect to mans wickednes â—râ—seene but it is Sinne which is the â—â—use why some vessels are made to â—â—â—honour or damnation Now Hyperius a learned Proteâ—â—ant shall further answere for me â—ho sayth That m In Method Theolog. l. 2. pag. 438. the long patience mentioned in the Text wherewith God suffred the Vessels of wrath demonstrateth that they were created good and afterward 〈◊〉 came euill of their proper will They being â—ade vessels of wrath because voluntarily they were to become Euill Thus Hiperius So certaine it is that their Creation of being Vessels was of God but being Vessels of wrath was from their sinnes foreseene I will conclude this point euen with the Apostles explanation of this place who expressely sayth That n 2. Tim. if a Vessel vnto dishonour shall cleanse it selfe it shall become a Vessel vnto Honour So far was the Apostle from iudging that God did absolutely ordayne any man to destruction and damnation without respect and reference to his Sinnes and Impiety Thus farre of this place illustrated by the Apostle Austin and the former learned Protestant And for the closure of all I will aâ—lâ—yne to 〈◊〉 Authorities my owne Obseru◠〈◊〉 touching our Aduersarius in this Câ—â—trouersy their traÌ„slating out of 〈◊〉 for their owne aduantage these worâ— Ordayned to destruction whereas it 〈◊〉 the Greeke only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is Made apt to destruction And â—ccording hereto it is in the Latin Tâ—â— Apta ad interitum Enthusiastus I cannot nor will not reply again the Apostles iudgement herein But yâ—â— there remayne behind diuers 〈◊〉 passages of Scripture as I may tearâ—â— them that a man can hardly fall vpâ—â— them without danger As where wâ— read o Act. 1â— As many as were ordayned to â—ternall life belieued implying hereby 〈◊〉 the restraint of the former words that some were ordained to destruction Arminius This Argument may be takâ—â— away seuerall wayes First because 〈◊〉 speaketh only of the Predestinate 〈◊〉 touching at least in words the Repâ—â—â—bate Secondly that admitting the â—ords of the Text were by sequele to â—oncerne the Reprobate yet they prooue â—ot which is only the issuable point in â—his controuersy to be proued a reall Reprobation or ordaining to damnation without respect of Sinne foreseene but only a not ordayning to Mercy or a dust dereliction of the wicked for their owne Sinnes Thirdly and lastly I say That wheras these former wordes are deliuered by S. Luke withall whereas our Aduersaries Inference heer is That those who did not then belieue were ordayned to damnation now to dreame that the opinion of our Aduersaries should be the true meaning of S. Luke is I will not say improbable but most absurd My reason is this The Text there sheweth that p Act. 13. The whole Citty came togeather to heare viz that Sermon By which words it appeareth that this assembly consisted of all sorts of persons â—s yong old women men c. Now who is so stupid as to thinke that of all that great concourse they only were saued who at that tyme were conuerâ—ed by that Sermon For shall we think that all the rest of that assembly 〈◊〉 Reprobates and could not after be 〈◊〉 to the fayth of Christ So 〈…〉 you see Enthusiastus in a â—â—â—trutination of the wordes this 〈◊〉 alleadged But proceed further For â— assure myself I shall not meet in all this discourse with any one Text which will force my vnderstanding much lesse necessarily euict the point questioned Enthusiastus I take your Answere as partly â—â—tisfying but because there are some fâ—â— Texts behind which by my neere â—â—tercourse among my Brethren I 〈◊〉 heard them produced by them with great confidence in proofe of Repâ—â—bation Therfore I am loath to 〈◊〉 them ouer in silence without hearing from your selfe what Constructioâ—â— you and your party doe giue of them The next therefore shall be 〈◊〉 passage which my Brethren haue 〈◊〉 vanting wordes euer much prysed 〈◊〉 therfore I should be the more willing to receaue a sufficient and irrepliâ—â—â—â— answere therto The Tâ—â—â— iâ— this q Rom. ◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall serue the yonger I loued Iacob 〈◊〉 hated Esau From which wordes 〈◊〉 inferre that God euen from his â—â—others wombe hated Esau and thereâ—â—re without regard of his euill workes â—â—d reprobate him Arminius Indeed this is the Maister-peece in all your shopps But I hope Enthus shall be able to giue you full satisfaâ—tion herein wherby you may partly â—esemble this passage to lightning and thunder which are fearefull to the eye â—nd do but seldome hurt And first I â—ay that if there were no other Answere then