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life_n ask_v elias_n judith_n 16 3 15.9435 5 false
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A06481 A persuasion from papistrie vvrytten chiefely to the obstinate, determined, and dysobedient English papists, who are herein named & proued English enimies and extreme enimies to Englande. Which persuasion, all the Queenes Maiesties subiectes, fauoring the Pope or his religion, will reade or heare aduisedlye ... Lupton, Thomas. 1581 (1581) STC 16950; ESTC S108934 242,044 324

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according vnto Christes teaching in their vulgare tongue or whiche they vnderstande if they aske in faith they shall be sure to haue that they lacke But nowe if euerye one that prayes in a knowne tong and knowes what they aske do not aske in faith and therfore obtaine not their desire nor haue that they lacke then all they that pray in the Latine tong and know not what they say or aske can not praye in faith and therefore muste néedes goe without that they lacke And so your prayers in the Latine tong which you vnderstand not must néedes bée a most friuolous and vaine prayer whereby you bothe anger God and deceiue your selues therfore if you would haue God to graunt your prayer then you muste knowe what you say to God and wherefore you make your prayer If one shoulde come to a Noble man aboute a sute and make a babbling to him with his tong neyther knowing himself what he saith neither y e noble man vnderstandeth what he woulde haue do you thinke he were like to spéed of his sute at the Noble mans hands Nay would not the Noble man thinke he were mad and therefore bid him go out of hys sight yes certainely euen so when you come thus babbling to God not knowing what you say or aske do you thinke to obtaine any thing at Gods hand No I warrant you but he wil be angry with you for misusing his Maiestie in such an vndecent maner and bycause you pray not in that order to him as Christe appointed you But haply you wil say the comparisons are not like for though the Noble man doth not know our mind yet God knoweth our meaning I know well y e God both knowes oure mindes and our harts But what if you know not certainely your own meanyng would you haue God to grant your vncertaine meanyng As I said before God doth not grant to euery one y t they aske though they know what they aske and do you thinke then he wil graunt you that knows not what you aske Elias prayed vnto God for a widowes son that was deade whose prayer God hearde for God restored him his life but Elias did not only knowe what he askt but also he prayed with a feruent faith Iudith when she prayed to God for the deliuering of the Bethulians she prayed not in Latine but in hir own tong that she vnderstoode spake with hir mouth y t she ment in hir hart wherby she obtained hir petition at Gods hands so must all true Christians know what they say require of God that would obtaine y t they aske of God Truely if Christe would haue had vs pray in any one tong and bound vs to one language he would then haue rather commanded vs to pray in the Hebrew tong y t was his natural spéeche and mother tong than in the Latine tong but he regardes not the tong but the prayer that is made with the tong not the babling of the tong but the feruent prayer that is pronounced with the tong Yet maister Harding sayth Some fruite there is alwayes had euen by secrete and vnknowne prayer whom maister Iewel aunsweareth thus But what fruite or how muche or how ye know it or can assure it ye tel vs not Yet Saint Augustine sayth what profit is there in speeche be it neuer so perfect if the vnderstanding of the hearer can not attayne vnto it for there is no cause why we should speake at al if they vnderstande not what wee speake for whose sake wee speake that they may vnderstand And again he sayeth my minde is without fruite this the Apostle Saint Paule saith when the thing that is spoken is not perceiued And again set apart the vnderstāding of thy mind no mā hath fruit or profit of that thing he perceiueth not And againe what needeth vs to sing if we vnderstand not what we sing or to sing with our voyce and not with our hart for vnderstanding is the sound or voyce of the hart Yet maister Harding telleth vs sadly that the deuout people is edified by the latine prayer though he vnderstand not one word that is spokē But S Au. saith by that thing that he vnderstādeth not no man is edified Maister Harding sayeth there is alwayes some fruit euen by secrete and vnknown prayer But S. Au. sayth there is no fruite in speeche be it neuer so perfecte if the vnderstanding of the hart can not attaine it so properly S. Au. and M. Harding agrées togither thus much sayth M. Iewel but bycause S. Au. is both antienter and of better credite we were best to sticke to his iudgement therein let M. Hardings goe But if one maye be edified by the latine prayer though he vnderstand neuer a word that he speaks then the créede or beléefe may profit one y t can say y e words though he vnderstande them not so by this meanes the Popingey of Cardinal Ascanius that was taught to saye could say al the Articles of the Créede from the beginning to the ende had some profit or was edified by hir vttering or speaking of the same But I thinke few are so foolish as to beléeue it No more are they that prayes in y e latine tōg that vnderstand not what they say S. Au. sayeth It is possible that a man pronounce the whole words of the Creede and yet not to haue the right faith Now if they that cā pronounce their whole Créede and knowe what they saye and yet may not haue the right faith then howe can they haue the right fayth that say the Créede in a strange tong and knowes neuer a word what they say thus you maye sée what a pretious kinde of praying your latine prayers are that the Pope doth allow you But yet you shall sée further how he hath and doth delude you in your prayers and how far he hath wrested your praying from the prayers and manner of praying that Christ hath taught you Christe willed his Apostles not onely to praye in theyr own vulgar tongue but also he taught them a prayer and to whom they should pray Which was that they shoulde only praye vnto God our Heauenlye father but the Pope not contented with the doctrine of Christe but thinkes he can teach and set out a better forme of prayer than he hathe taught you that you muste praye in none other tong but in the latine tongue thoughe you vnderstande neuer a worde thereof besides he doth teach you to praye vnto Saintes and to Marie the virgin and mother of Christe yea and to deade Images of stockes and stones that can neyther sée you heare you nor graunte you that you require It may be that some of you wil say that as you like not praying to Images so you mislike not to praye vnto oure Lady or vnto Saints that they maye praye vnto God for you for if one would speake with a King or