because contemners are not Idolaters This is his ordinary faulte that he can not vnderstande that iff an Idolater owght to die miche more a contemner of the worde For contempte althowghe yt be not in an action which doothe vtterly ouerturne the seruice of God as Idolatrie but in one which staineth or cracketh yt onely as is the breache off the Sabbothe is yet shewed to be so displeasante vnto the lorde and so detestable that that which off yt selfe was not deadly onely by this circumstance of contempte was punished with presente deathe which may appeare in him that gathered stickes on the Sabothe daye The breache off the sabothe daie was not simplie punishable by deathe as Idolatrie was myche les so small a breache by the gathering off a fewe stickes yet because yt was doone as the scripture saithe in a highe hande that is to saie proudly and contemptuouslie the lorde commaunded that he shoulde be put to deathe and setteth that downe for a generalle lawe How myche more then shall he which despisethe the worde off God which is the rule off the whole bodie off the seruice off God and off that trew reste From our owne workes and from sinne whereoff that bodelye reste was a figure be punished withe deathe And iff because the lawe doothe not saie in thus many wordes that a contemner shall die yt be not lawfull to conclude that he owght to be put to deathe what wil the answerer saie vnto the writer vnto the hebrues which saithe that he that despisethe the lawe off Moses vnder two or three witnesses was put to deathe withowt mercie For by those wordes yt appearethe not onely that a contemner of the lawe off Moses owght by the lawe to die which is that which I sett downe but also that the writer vpon thâ—â— and suche like places as I haue here alledged gathered that whiche is no where in the lawe found in the same wordes wherin he vttereth that sentence Touching the place off Deutronomy which he saithe is onely vnderstaÌ„ded off false witnesse yt is apparaÌ„t that althowghe yt folowe immediatly the lawe off puttinge a false witnesse to deathe yet it is a generall sentence and hathe regarde vnto all the crimes which are capitall for iff false witnesses be put to deathe and Idolaters or contemners remaine how is the lande purged off the euills whiche drawe the wrathe off God vpon yt or how is a terror stricken into the reste wherby they may be kepte from the infection off that synne And if no punishement but deathe be hable to giue a sounde full enoughe to stricke a sufficiente terror of the synne off false witnes in suche a case how myche more ys yt needefull that there be as brymme and as audible a punishement against Idolaters and contemners of the worde to the ingendring of that feare in others wherby the reste maye be kepte in the feare and trewe worship off the lorde The place off the Chronicles is not answered for yt is more generall then the A. taketh yt and is an exposition off the lawe For where the lawe saithe that he that seruethe straunge Gods shall die this place saithe that he shall die vvhich seekethe not the lorde wher in are comprehended not onely Idolaters but Atheistes and mockers and contemners off God which is that which I had to proue As for that he asketh off the perpetuite off thes lawes yt is afterwarde spoken off In the ende he findeth faulte that I saying there are other punishementes for suche as neglecte the worde of God according to the faulte doo nether tell what they are nor where they be to be founde I thowght that the mowthe of his vnderstanding had not bene so narrowe but yt coulde easely comprehende that if contempte be by the vvorde off God to be punished by deathe that the neglecte off yt owght not to escape the ciuile punishement either in bodie or Godes c. Why I did not recken them vpp I assigned sufficiente cause in that the varying according to the quantitie off the faulte more or les coulde not be sett downe And iff he will see in generall what punishement the lawe of God aloweth of in such cases he may reade in Esra Where beside the punishement off deathe againste the transgressors off the lawe there be also appointed banishement losse of Good or imprisonement as the qualitie off the faute required And if he saye that that vvas doone by the authoritie not off the lawe of God but of a heathen prince the answer is easie that yt is very like that the commission given to Esra and authorised by the kinge vvas drawne by Esra vvhich vvas a cunninge scribe in the lawe of god At the lefte yt is manifeste that he bothe accepted that and amongeste other thinges gaue God thanckes for yt which he wolde neuer haue doone oneles â—t had bene a Good interpetation off the lawe in that behalffe considering that euen the ciuill and politike lawes Wherby the Iewes were theÌ„ and in Iurie especially gouerned â–ª ought to be no other then those which the lorde had prescribed in the lawe And thus let yt be Iudged what Good cause I had to aske vvhat vvas become off the A. iudgement vvhen he set dovvne that there is no Discipline appointed â—n the worde off God for those which shall contemne the worde off god and common praiers Diuision 7. pag. 91. THe answerer saide that there was not one worde in the scripture off pulpites or off sytting at the communion in a worde I shewed that ther was And where he saithe the pulpit was placed in open streete That vvas because off their dwelling in tentes the feaste vvheroff they celebrated For otherwise yt appeareth that suche a highe place in the temple owte off the vvhich the voice off him vvhich spake might be hearde vvas ordinary The reason off calling the doctrine of Moses the chaire of Moses by a metonumie off the subiecte For the adiuncte I will leue to the reader to iudge of for my iudgement off them I saide that they are not lightly to be chaunged and he dispurethe against me as if I had saide that yt were not lawfull to chaunge thes vppon any occasion And beside this disputing againste his owne phansie and not against my vvordes he hathe violently broken into the question off reading and interpreting the vvorde off God vvithowt any the leste occasion giuen therof and hathe also shamefully corrupted the place off Nehemias as shall be seene in the proper place 8. Diuision pag. 92. Here he accusethe me of falsifying his wordes whiche haue charged him vvith saying that yt ys an indifferent thinge to preache the worde of God in churches or howses priuately or publikely wherin he still vttereth his forheade harder then any steele For thes being his owne wordes that the scripture speaketh not a worde of preaching or baptizing openly or priuately at home or in the church doothe he not saye
compasse off the law as can be the A. in imagining that vve haue no word for diuers thinges wherein the Iewes had particular direction presupposeth gteater perfection in the lawe gyuen vnto the Iewes then in that vvhich is left vnto vs And that this is a principal vertue off the lawe may be seen not onely by that I haue shewed that a conscience well instructed and towched with the feare off God seeketh for the light off the word off God in the smallest actions but euen by common reason the masters whereoff giue this rule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to saie that yt greatly behoueth those lavves vvhich are vvell made as muche as can be to determine of all thinges and to leaue as fevve thinges as may be to the discretion off the iudges Where he saithe that the examples I browght off orders vvhich the Iewes did vvell obserue vvhereoff there was no expresse mention in the lawe off God make not to the pourpose for that he spake off ceremonies vsed abowt the worship off God I answer that that vvhich I haue alledged is a manifest confutation off those wordes which he hathe set downe nether was ther the least thing to be doon in the church omitted in the lawe For are not these thinges vvhich I browght example off to be doon in the church are they not Ecclesiasticall orders yea are not part off them which he denieth perteining to the seruice off God Yf these orders off the howre for the morning and afternoone sacrifice off preaching the vvord off God in a place vvhere yt may be best hard off fasting for the better humbling off the people before the lord in praier be not orders and Ceremonies perteining to the worshipp off God then the daylie sacrifices preaching the vvord off God and calling vppon his name vvhereunto these belonged are no partes off the worshipp off God then the vvhich there is nothing more absurde And verily this is not by iugling or sleight off hand to deceiue the eyes off the reader but by flat facing to endenour to make hym tourne them from the truthe That vvhich I said off the Iewes Ecclesiasticall gouernement by the morall and Ceremoniall lawe onely and not by the iudiciall as that vvhich may be cast downe with reasons owt off the vvord of God vvhich is here onely doon by autoritie of men I am vvell content it fall So that I haue no fault to finde vvith the Ans in this behalfe but that the vveapon he strooke this vvith all vvas not sharp enoughe Diuision 5. pag. 120 c. Of the nomber off thinges vvhich the Iewes had not particulerly decided by the lawe the reason is apparant vvhich I haue assigned that this hyndereth not but that there is a vvord and generall commandement to direct them by hath bene shewed that it is a vaine cauill that maketh doubt whether in saying that vve haue the same lavves to direct vs in the seruice off God vvhich the Ievves had I meane the Ceremoniall lawe or no appeareth by that vvhich I set downe in the third diuision p. 118. vvhere I receiuing the morall lawe for our direction left the Ceremoniall and of the same sort is that vvhich he vvrangleth in becawse I saie the nevve Testament is a noble addition vnto the ould considering that I adding vvherein namely that it maketh the ould more manifest and bringeth greater light shut owt all euen the least occasion off suche trifling And this maner of speach that I haue vsed Maister Caluin vvhich is here opposed hath him selff vsed Where he calleth in this respect the gospell an addition vnto the lavve yt remaineth to see vvhether in the matter off the iudiciall lawe that vvhich I haue set downe be straunge and daungerous as the A. surmiseth or no. It is not as the A. surmiseth vntruly that the magistrate is simply bound vnto the iudicial lawes off Moses but that he is bound to the equitie which I also called the substance and marrowe off them In regard off vvhich equitie I affirmed that there are certen lawes amongest the Iudicialles which can not be chaunged And hereof I gaue example in the lawes vvhich command that a stubbern Idolater blasphemer murtherer incestuous person and suche like should be put to death For the first point that the equitie of the iudicialls doth remaine ād therfore owght to be a rule to direct al lawes by to let passe the autoritie of M. Caluin M. Beza and other writers off our time that haue writen with any iudgement off this matter which doo in plaine wordes affirme that there is a perpetuall equitie in them and that our lawes albeit they differ in forme yet owght to reteine the reason or ground of them I saie to let that passe yt is to be considered that all these lawes morall Ceremoniall and Iudiciall being the lawes off God and by his reueled will established must so far forth remaine as yt appeareth not by his will that they are reuoked And seing that the alteration which is come in this behalfe is by the comming off our Sauiour Christ onely yt is to be inquired what those lawes are which he put end vnto Which thing may be considered in that diuision which Saint Paul vseth where he saith that our Sa. Christ came to make peace first betwene God and men and then betwene men and men that is to say betwene the Iewes and Gentils The Ceremoniall lawe therefore beinge a lawe of enimitie which as a wall held owt the Gentils from ioyning them selues vnto the Iewes was necessary amongest other cawses in this respect to be taken away The curse off the lawe for the breache of any the lawes of god ether perteining to the Iewes in tymes past or vnto vs nowe being that which maketh the wall betwene the Lord and vs was for our reconciliation with his maiestie necessarily to be remoued Wherevppon followeth first that the morall lawe as that which nether hindereth our reconciliation with the Lord not our good agreement with men is in as full strenght as euer it was before the comming of our Sauiour Christ For the curse off the lawe beside that it is in regard off the elect rather fulfilled and executed in the persone off our Sa. Christ then abrogated beside that also yt hath a necessary vse as yet towardes the elect not onely to driue them to the faith which is in Christ Iesus but also to kepe vnder the remantes of rebellion euen of them which haue already beleued and beside that the force thereoff is daily ād shal be for euer execured vpon the wicked beside all this seing this curse was annexed not onely to the breache off the morall lawe but also off the Ceremoniall and Iudiciall there is no iuste cause why the morall lawe should be sayde to be abrogated At the least it can not stand which the Ans hathe very daungerously set downe that the whole lawe off god generally is
not right and yet some founde whiche either maye haue there calling according to the word off god diuerse from that which is commonly vsed or els the lawfull callinge by the church ceasing haue it by an immediate calling from god Iff M. D. will be so ignorant as not to know how these two maye stand togither let him be ignorant if he delight in his blindnes what should he doo with a guide After he saith my distinction is not good off lavvfull and ordinarie for that whatsoeuer is lawfull in a churche established the same is ordinarie and for proufe hereoff he addeth that coÌ„mon reason teacheth it but what is that common reason it had bene good yow had set it downe This is a simple confutatioÌ„ which yow vse to proue that in an established church lawfull and ordinarie are all one And iff I should replie and saye that the distinction is good and that common reason teacheth soo if I light off as fauorable a reader as yow my proufe will be as good as yours â–ª but this is but to abuse the time and to delude the world And it is the more vntollerable that yow are not contente to haue said it once withowt proufe onlesse it be also quoted in the margent as thowghe we could not withowt some great damage want this highe sayinge And wher yowe make common reason the iudge hereoff althowghe she be an euill scholemistris oftentimes in these cases yet she teacheth here plainely against yow For iff a man will consider it in naturall thinges yt is euident in the birthe off children that some thing is lawful which is not ordinarie It is nor ordinarie for a woman to bring foorthe thre or fower children at once and yet it is lawfull And if this common reason be considered also in politicall thinges there it shall appeare likewise that thinges are lawfull in a well gouerned aÌ„d established coÌ„mon wealth which are not ordinaâ—rie As if order be taken that none shal clime the walles of the citie aÌ„d the citizens climinge the wall vpon the sodeine comming off the enemie driue him backe no maÌ„ can denie but this acte is lawfull and yet it is clere that it is not ordinarie being otherwise but in suche a case as this punishable But let these goo and let vs see how this oracle agreeth withe the word off god And first iff by a churche established yow meane a church which hathe one vniforme order grounded owt off the word off god yow take that for graunted which is the controuersie for we denie that the churche off England is so established But iff yow vnderstand by a churche established a church of god vvherin vvith other thinges well donne the corruptions which are in yt are by common consent off those which rule the churche agreed vppon it is manifest that in suche a churche there hath bene a calling lawful which was not ordinarie For before the comminge off our Sauior Christ it is confessed that there was amangest the Iewes aÌ„d in IerusaleÌ„ especially a churche of god established the ordinarie ministeries off the priestes and Leuites vsed thâ— prescribed sacrifices offred the law read and taught the corruptions of the churche were not the seuerall opinions of particular persons but the vniforme decrees off those vvhich had the gouernment And yet there the lord raised vp Simeon and Iohn Baptiste whose vocations being extraordinarie were notwithstanding lawfull And that there be no hole for M. D. to hide his bouldnes off castinge forthe whatsoeuer taketh him first in the heade it is to be shewed that in the moste orderlie established churches off god and moste purelie reformed according to the worde of god there haue bene ministers lawfull and yet not ordinary In the vvildernes the churche vnder the conduite off Moses and Aaron was for the owtward face exactlie gouerned according to the rule that god had giuen theroff and yet we reade off the 72. vpon whom the spirite of Prophesie fell vvhich vvas no ordinarie calling as that vvhich endured but for a time as the wordes of the texte howsoeuer they be otherwise translated do declare which saith that they added not to prophesie anie more When was the churche better established according to the rule off the worde of god then in Dauids time and yet then besides himselffe there vvere diuerse extraordinarie ministers For there was the Prophete NathaÌ„ and Gad withe others not off the Leuiticall order whiche onelie was the ordinarie callinge off the churche In the new Testament the churche off Antioche ceased not after it was established to haue the extraordinarie function off Prophetes And onless M. D. vvill saie that all these functions were vnlawfull he must confesse that in an established churche ordinarie and lawfull are not all one And albeit in these times vvhere there is a churche established according to the vvord off god the lord dothe not vse to raise vp anie suche extraordinarie ministerie neither is it to be looked for yet yt is a thinge vvhich may come to passe and vvhiche hathe nothinge in the vvorde off god to the contrarie In steade of that yow saye Iff any church in England doo electe there minister otherwise then the lawes off the churche dothe permitt it can not be excused off schisme yow should haue said otherwise then the worde off god dothe permitte For iff it be shewed that that order established be corrupte and the other vvhiche they folowed in the calling off their minister according to the vvord of god then they neede not to be afraid off the slaunder off schisme And vvhere yovv saye suche and suche parishes muste be loked vnto verely they nede not therin be ashamed vvho looke vpon them But If eare the looke yow meane is to put owt their eye in taking awaie the Minister that they should be the lesse hable to looke vnto your vnfaith full dealing vvithe the churches off god Yow vnderstand not yow saie what I meane when I saie that the choise off the Minister by the churche is suche as the examples off the scripture do shew to haue bene before the Eldershipp and gouernment off the churche be established I know in deede these thinges before haue bene vnhearde off by yow whose ignorance the churche must rue And now when yow are tolde it in so plaine wordes as I nothinge dowbte but a childe off nine yeres oulde dothe vnderstand yt yow can not yet comprehende it Yt was the practise off the Pharises against our Sauior Christe when they had nothing to answere to charge him that he spake not plainlie but propounded thinges dowbtfully that men coulde not tell where to haue him For they come vnto him and saye how longe doest thow holde vs in suspence Iff thow be Christ tell vs plainlie as thowghe he had not tolde them plainlie before This Pharisaicall practise the D. vseth against me diuerse times gropinge at noone dayes and complaining that I am not plaine and open enoughe and going
at large Vnto the fowre nexte sections I answer nothing sauing that where in the seconde secâ— pa. 5â— he saith that master Caluin in his booke against the Anabaptistes affirmethe that the churche as towching the external pollicie can not be perfecte I doo assure my selffe that as in other places so heere he hathe vntrewly saide off Maister Caluin And yt cannot bâ— vnknowne but in Moses and the Apostlâ—â— times ther was a perfecte patruÌ„ of the owtwarde gouernernment off the churches bothe giuen off the lorde and receiued off the churches neither can there be any parte of the owtwarde gouernement off the churche assigned by the answerer which draweth any suche impossibilitie withe yt as he imagineth And iff he saye that ther were faultes committed againste those perfecte patrones that is not to the purpose For the faultes off particular persons doo no more ouerthrowe the perfection off the gouernment whiche was receiued then the faultes off the officers in our churche againste the lawes theroff are to be imputed vnto the lawes them selues wherby that gouernment standeth And as for the examples off the churches off Corinthe and Galatia whiche he alledgeth they rather make against him For that disorder whiche the Apostle chargeth them withe being a slyding backe and falling awaye from that estate wherin they were firste off all set by the Apostell argueth that there was a time when the contrarie off those disorders had place in their churches In the nexte section he alledgeth diuers examples to proue that enemies one withe another conspire against the trewthe whiche no man do which and where I shewed that the churches friÌ„des may doo some thiÌ„ges which some of the churches enemies doo against him whiche in that the admonitors doo certaine thinges with the Papiste and Anabaptistes woulde giue to vnderstande that they are conspired with theÌ„ he answerethe that the admonitors conspire withe the enemies off the churche in thinges whiche are againste the churche which is a manifest begging off that whiche is in controuersie Towching that which I sayde he hathe tawght that there is no commaundement in the scripture to put heretikes to deathe althowghe he denie that euer he did so yet beside that he mainteineth the same in the seconde treatise where he leaueth yt in the libertie off the magistrate whether he will doo yt or no and reiecteth all the lawes off God prouided in that behalfe as Iewis he there be moo witnesses off this then his bare deniall is hable to beare downe to whose knowledge I wil so reporte me in this behalfe that if they confirme not the same I refuse not to beare the blame off that reporte where he saieth there is no cause that he shoulde be better thought of emonge the papistes which teache and practise the contrarie althoughe the Papistes abuse this doctrine to the horrible murther off the church yet the doctrine is the doctrine off god and not the Papistes and yow by staying the course off yt nourishe them to the daye off slawghter and shedding off the bloude off the sainctes off god vvhich is their feaste and vvhiche they so greatly delight in and longe after In althat which foloweth vnto the first tractate vvhich beginneeth page 62. there is nothing worthe the answere And as for that whole tractate because yt perteineth to the question off lordeshipp and dominion off the Archebishopps ouer the bishops and off the Bishopps ouer the reste off the Ministers yt shall be referred to the beginning off the 8. Tractate where the answerer shall receiue his replie What authoritie the churche hathe in making off orders Chapter 1. pag. 77. THe playster vvherwithe the answerer woulde heale his vnskilfulnes in the expounding off tollerating in the churche by these wordes placing in the churche will not cleane For to let pas the meanig off the admonition whiche he shoulde haue shewed iff he mainteine his answer by yt and not as he doothe contrary to all lawe of disputation bid me proue that their meaning was not so as he supposeth I saie to let that pas yt appeareth by bis plaine vvordes that this exposition was not framed in regarde off the meaning off the admonition but for that he knew not what difference there was betwene placinge in the churche and tollerating in the churche For himselffe coÌ„fesseth that this is the principall grounde of their booke that those thinges onely shoulde be placed in the churche whiche the lorde himself in his worde comÌ„aundethe and ascribing this iudgemeÌ„t vnto them he afterwarde expoundeth that to be asmuche as if they shoulde haue saide that nothing shulde be tolerated c. yff this be their principall grounde that nothing be placed c as the A. confessethe and placing in the churche is not the same that tollerating in the churche as he doothe also confesse yt must folowe that the principall grounde off the admonition was not as he saithe that nothing shoulde be tollerated in the churche not commaunded by the worde And his wordes doo discharge the admonition off any suche assertion For in that he saithe that their meaning was so farr as he coulde gather that nothing shoulde be placed c. yt is manifeste that in saying nowe that they mente that nothinge shoulde be tolerated c. he chargeth them farther then he was then hable to gather off their booke Afterwarde he chargethe me withe an vnaduised and a popishe assertion for that I say that many thinges are commaunded in the scripture vvhich are not expressed in yt He neded not to haue trauailed far to haue seene how far I am from poperie in in this pointe iff he woulde haue but considered the wordes which folowe in the same diuision that god hathe set before vs in his vvorde a perfect patrone off his churche But I was at leaste ouerseene in this kind off speache Alas iff he woulde vnderstande his grammer and acknowledge that which simple scholers off the gramÌ„er schoole doo well knowe that their is difference betweene expressed and conteined betweene expressed and included betweene expressed and implied betweene expressed and gathered He woulde neuer haue troubled the reader with suche folies And as for that which I set downe I did yt vppon Good groundes For who is there which knoweth not that thes thinges that there is one essence and three persons in the godheade that there is in our Sauiour Christe one parson and two natures are not expressed but onely conteined in the worde off God And iff proofe must be had off thinges which is to greate shame for one that cariethe the title off a diuine to be ignorant off let the answerer know that lerned diuines speake afte this sorte Their wordes be thes Off the father of the Sonne and holy ghoste there is one nature one essence and thre persons In Christ our lorde there be tvvo natures and one person and many other thinges vvhich the catholike churche doothe receiue rather layde oute by the interpretation
the cōparisō is made would haue cleared this margēt To the Diuision 4. pag. 84. The Admonition saide that nothinge ought to be established in the church vvhich is not commaunded by the vvorde off God the A offended hewith condemned this sayinge the replie shewethe how the saying of the A. is maintenable namely for that thoughe there be not expresse wordes for euery thinge which may be established yet there are generall commaundementes whereby all thinges which can fall into any Ecclesiasticall consultation are to be directed The A. to mainteine his sodeine and vnaduised condemnation saithe that in those thinges which are varied by time and other circumstances and whereoff there is no precise determination in the worde off god yt is enoughe that they be not against the worde of god So that this is the difference betwene the Adm. and him they will haue those thinges not onely not to be against the worde but to be grounded vpon the worde and he saiethe it is enough they be not against the worde Wherin iff there were no diuersitie the Ans is in fault which in his greedines off findinge fault condemneth that in the Adm. which he is constreined to allowe off But in deed they are not all one For albeit it can not be but that which is not agreable vnto the worde off God is against the worde off God and off the otherside that which is not against the worde off God is agreable vnto yt yet he that so saithe that certaine thīges must be doone not agaīst the worde that he wil not also accorde that they should be doone accordinge to the worde gyuethe thereby to vnderstand that there is some star or light off reason or learninge or other helpe whereby some act may be well doone and acceptably vnto God in which the worde off God was shut out and not called to counsaile as that which either coulde not or neede not giue any direction in that behalfe Nowe in this later boocke and in this diuision he saithe that nothinge ought to be doone in the churche but accordinge to the true meaninge off the worde And afterwarde saithe that he agreethe vnto this sentence off mine that in makinge orders and ceremonies off the churche it is not lavvfull to doo vvhat men liste but they are bovvnde to follovve the generall rules off the scripture that are giuen to be a squire whereby those are to be squared out And thus in the end the A. is constreined to yelde him selfe to that which he hathe before founde fault with for if nothinge may be doone in makinge orders off the churche but accordinge to the generall rules off the scripture and those generall rules be commaundementes it folowethe that nothinge may be doone in makinges orders for the church but accordinge to the commaundement off god Which is that which the Adm. did set downe And wheras he woulde make the reader belieue that we haue giuen backe in that we confesse certeine orders may be established in the churche which are not expressed in the worde off God I haue shewed howe the Adm. is very vntruely charged with that sentence there beinge neither the same nor the valew off those wordes to be founde in it This therefore beinge agreed on off bothe sides we might haue here shut vp these controuersies sauinge that the A. holdinge this doctrine in wordes dothe notwithstandinge in deede continue the siedge against it in that all those places which I haue alledged for proof off it he doothe by shamefull and open corruptions essaye to ouerthowe And to the first place whiche is that the wisdome of god in his worde doothe teache men euery good way and therefore the way which ought to be taken in the establishement of orders and ceremonies in the churche he asketh me in great scorne what that maketh to the purpose in deede to proue that which he vntruly and contrarie to my playne wordes in his answer to al my argumētes surmiseth to be my pourpose that is that no lawe ought to be made in the churche which is not expressed in the worde I say to proue this I graunt it is not sufficient but to proue that all thinges owght to be doone in the church not onely not against the com̄aundement but also accordinge to the commaundement of God which was that which I propounded and he denied it is more sufficient then he is hable to answer His answer also which supposeth this sentence directed vnto princes and magistrates onely belike in that he saithe my sonne is vttered withowte all iudgemēt consideringe that Salomon by that title speaketh vnto all the children off god of what callinge soeuer they be as it is manifest by the writer to the Hebrues To the next argument grounded vppon the authoritie off Saint Paul which is nothinge can be doone to the glorie off God withowt ebedience all thinges doone withowt the Testymonye off the worde off God are withowt obedience therefore nothinge doone withowt the Testymonye off the worde off God can be doone to the Glory off God to this argument which he calleth vndigested he answereth by repetition off my wordes and that Saint Paul◠meaninge is that nothinge be doone against the worde Which how absurde an answer it is when bothe that is the question and I haue expressly vrged the Testimonye off the worde off God to be required let all men Iudge The next argument which he saithe is euill framed is apparant Wheresoeuer faithe is wantinge there is synne in euery action not commaunded faithe is wantinge therfore in euery action not commaunded there is sinne To this be answereth that the wordes off Saint Paul not to be off faithe signifie that we ought to doo nothinge against our conscience Which both is very absurde and ouerthroweth the sense off the Apostle For hauinge shewed that he which doothe any thing doubtingly is condemned he assigneth immediately this to be the reason because he dooth it not off faithe So that the Apostle calleth that doone not off faithe which is doone doubtingly But he is sayde to doo agaynst conscience which hauinge his knowledge and persuasion setled goeth agaynst yt And where he saithe that the wordes going before which are Blessed is he that condemneth not hym selffe in the thing vvhich he allovvethe do proue that sense off his it is spoken withowt all consideration off the place For how commeth yt to passe that he rather referrethe these wordes off Saint Paule not to be off faithe to this sentence which is farther remoued then to that off doing with dowbte which goeth immediately before yea wherwith it is coupled in the same verse withe a coniunction causall And althowghe the reason sometime be referred vnto that which goethe farther off yet that is bothe rarely and then when by no meanes yt can agree withe that wich goeth immediatelie before Which can not be here considering especially that it could not be vnknowen but that he which dothe against his conscience sinneth wherby the
Apostle should neede make any proufe of it but off him which doothe a thing staggering and waueringe ther might be some dowbte whether he synned and therfore the Apostle hauinge said that he is condemned in so doinge addethe this reason for that he dothe it not of faithe which beinge sinne is therfore damnable Where he saithe that if a man should do nothinge wheroff he hathe not assurance by the word off God that he dothe well that therby should be ouerthrowne Christian libertie in indifferent thinges the faulte is in his want off vnderstanding For euen those thinges that are indifferent and maye be donne haue their fredome grounded off the word off God so that onlesse the word off the lord either in generall or especiall wordes had determined off the free vse off them there could haue bene no lawfull vse off them at all And when he seethe that S. Paule speaketh here off ciuill priuate and indifferent actions as off eating this or that kind of meate then the which their can be nothing more indifferent he might easely haue seene that the sentence off the Apostle reacheth euen to his case off taking vpp a straw For iff this rule be off indifferent thinges and not off all I would gladlie know off him what indifferent thinges it is giuen off and off what not And the same also I require off him in the other generall rule off doing all thinges to the glorie off god For iff that reache vnto all indifferent thinges it must needes comprise also this action of his Which iff it doo then as no man can glorifie God but by obedience and here is no obedience but where there is a worde it must followe that their is a worde And semethe it so strange a thinge vnto him that a man should not take vp a straw but for some pourpose and for some good pourpose or will he not giue the lord leaue to require off a Christian man endewed with the spirite off God as muche as the heathen require off one which is onelie endued with reason that he should do nothing wheroff he hathe not some ende and that in all his doinges whether publicke or priuate at home or abroade whether withe him selfe or with an other he owght to haue regard whether that which he dooth be donne in dutye or no And iff the taking vp off a straw be donne to good ende either off helping him selfe or others regarde of profite or pleasure or what els it hathe testimonie off the word off god And if it haue not an ende and a Good ende will not the A. giue the lord leaue to coÌ„demne that in his infinite wisdome which men by the light off a litle wisdome do accompte folishe or will he be so iniurious to the iustice off god that he maie not iudge that to be synne whiche they saye is donne against dutie What also that some euen off those heathen men haue tawght that nothing owght to be donne wheroff thow dowbtest whether it be right or wronge Whereby it appeareth that euen those which had no knowledge of the word off God did see mutche of the equitie of this which the Apostle requireth of a ChristiaÌ„ man and that the cheifest difference is that where they sent men for the difference off good and euill to the light off reason in suche thinges the Apostle sendeth them to the scoole of Christe in his worde which onely is hable thoroughe faith to giue them assurance and resolution in their doinges And althoughe to mainteine his former vnaduisednes he had rather saie that men should doo nothinge but which they beleue not to displease god then with the godly learned to say that they ought to doo nothinge which they are not assuredly perswaded of that it pleaseth God yet euen this which he sayeth off beleuinge that it doth not displease God I would knowe off him Where he can fetche the grounde off but in the worde off god For iff he doo beleue that it doeth not displease God and beleife be not but in respect of the worde off god it must followe that he hathe some word off God which tellethe him that that dothe not displease the Lorde And where he accusethe this doctrine of bringing-men to dispere he dothe it wronge For when doubtinge is the waye to dispere againste whiche this doctrine offrethe the reÌ„medie it muste needes be that it bringeth comforte and ioye to the conscience off man. The reason which I assigned why it is necessarie to haue the worde off God goo before vs in all our actions namely for that wee can not otherwise be assured that they please God he dothe not once touche His secoÌ„de significatioÌ„ of these wordes not to be of faithe that is not to be an article of faithe if it had any grace in it yet it is merely idle in this place and helpe the no more to the vnderstanding of the place of Saint Paul nowe in hande then smoke dothe the eyes And where in the ende he saieth that thes places doo proue as muche for all cyuill actions as for ecclesiasticall and that I can no more proue by thes that a certaine forme off discipline is appoincted in the Scripture then that euerie ciuill action is precisely commaunded to be doone without any change I graunt it neither did I alleadge them therefore but was driuen into this disputacion onely by occasion before alleadged in the beginninge off this diuision and manifestly expressed in the next 7. Diuision pag. 86. WHere as I alledged that in making ceremonies and orders off the churche this owght to be obserued which sainct Paul requireth that they offende none but especially that they offende not the churche off God the first exception off the answerer is that this rule prescribeth the dutye vnto priuate men and not generally vnto the churche As thoughe the rule were not generall or this thinge were prescribed vnto them in respect of that they were priuate and not in respect off beinge Christians whether priuate or publicke in which case that which is commaunÌ„ded to one â—s coÌ„maunded to ahor as if the Lorde were so carefull in priuate offences and careles in publike And iff offence ought to be taken heede off in thinges doone withowt many witnesses withowte all countenaunce off autoritie and once onely how muche more owght yt to be taken heede off in the orders off the church which haue so many lookers on so greate coÌ„tinuance and suche force off autoritie to strike yt deeper in His seconde exception is that by this meanes the orders off the churche shoulde be subiecte to one or twoo mens liking or misliking which answer procedeth off two foule an ouersight and wante off vnderstandinge off the worde offense For Saint Paule by offense doothe not meane displeasure or discontement but that wherby occasion is giuen to anie of synne and transgression off the lawe off God which maie as well be with alowance as disalowance when all
owt whereby I could haue taken aduantage For beside that the ceremonies with vs are in greater nomber then August alloweth all men see that they are more vrged and the omitting off them seuerelier punished then the breache off the commaundementes off God in which case he will haue them abrogated For he scapeth far better which hath not preached a whole halfe yeare in his church then which preaching euery weeke twise leueth off his surplis once And yt is better with him whose whole liffe then whose capp is owt off square vvhich is ennemie off the crosse off Christe then which can not abyde the crosse in baptisme with those which leaue owt some ceremonie in burying the bodyes off the dead then vvith those vvhich murder the soules off the liuing All which thinges the place of Augustine giuing me occasion off I notwithstanding for shortnes sake passed by The Answer to the laste place off Aug. was needeles being the same with the third vvhich I subscribed vnto The answer to your conclusion had bene superfluous I hauing before declared vvherein I agree vvith yowe ād vvherein I withstand yow And vvhereas I laye to his charge that he fetcheth rules ovvt off the vvritinges of mē to square the Ceremonies by vvhich he might haue had in the vvord of god here certeine ād altogether true vvhich are there vncerteine ād in part vntrue he answereth that he browght thē not for that pourpose wherein beside that he calleth thē rules his answer is directly against that which he hath set downe For he chap. 1. diuision 9. pag. 94. making his beginning off the sentence off Saint Paul which he saithe is a rule for the church to examine her ceremonies by pursueth the selfe same point vnto this place And where he saithe they are meete for a Diuine to know yt is no answer considering that yt may be profitable for a Diuine to know many thinges which yt is daungerous to propound vnto the church muche more to propound them as rules to grownd the churches lawes vppon In the next diuision there is nothing to be answered or which hath not bene answered before In the next where he saithe that the priuate sentences off men in their Epistels of these pointes are off more credite then that which they haue published vnto the whole world yt is a saying meet for such a cawse as he defendeth For all vnderstand that men be more soudeine in letters to their freindes then in their bookes and that they burne more candell and make the file off their Iudgement and vnderstanding passe oftener vppon those writinges which they will submit to the Iudgement off all men then to the iudgement off one vpon those which they knowe shall come on the racke off their wrangling ennemies then which shal finde rest in the bosome of an easie ād frendly interpretation vpon those which they thincke shall remaine vnto all posteritie then which they thincke shall dye at the least with him to whom they wrote And therefore iff there were occasions to moue them to speake otherwise in their publike writinges then in their priuate yet that turneth all to the aduantage off those which alledge that which was spoken vppon the howse toppe rather then off those which presse that was rounded in the eare off one man Yf their priuate writinges varie not from their publike yt is so muche better for vs which are well assured that the publike we haue alledged stand off our syde Where I suppose him to attribute the order off church matters vnto the Bishoppes which he parteth with the prince and other wise men albeit yt will appeare that he shutteth owt diuers which haue interest in that consultation yet he might haue some cawse to complaine in that behalfe and yt was I confesse my ouersight Vnto the two next diuisions pag. 117 c. Where I haue shewed the places off Deut. 4. 12. are still in force against the error off the A. which in saing that in the time of the Iewes and during that estate yt was not lawefull to adde any thing c. gyueth to vnderstand that we are not so streightly bound vnto yt at this tyme he answereth that he applied that rule vnto the lawe off faithe and manners ▪ but he shoulde haue vnderstanded that in restraining the rule after that sorte therby shutting owt the lawes off making orders and ceremonies off the church he still falleth into that fault whereoff he is accused For hauing shewed that not onely in thinges which he calleth matters off faithe and manners but euen in the variable Ceremonies off the church there ys a worde off God yt is also true that he is accursed which in making orders off the church foloweth not the rule off the lawes off God prouided in that behalfe And I hauing shewed that the Iewes them selues had certen Ecclesiasticall Ceremonies in mariadge buriall c. which are not expressly commanded vnto them yf they as he confesseth had addresse owt off the word off God for all their lawes off what sorte soeuer and this curse fell off them if in their variable lawes they ether added or diminished from the word of God yt muste needes folowe that the Christians nowe in their variable lawes bothe haue a word to direct them and a curse for either adding or diminishing from that word Onles he will saie that the Christians in thinges which were a like left vnto the libertie off them and the Iewes are les bownd to folowe the prescript off the worde off God then were the Iewes which ys absurd In the places owt off Ieremy and Isay yt is euident that there is set forthe howe there shal be greater knowledge off the will off god vnder the Gospell then vnder the Lawe And euen that which I haue set downe off the people which should be as learned vnder the Gospell as the Leuites and Priestes vnder the lawe beside that yt conteineth a manifest truthe and therfore can not be to flatter the people as he surmiseth may be also gathered off the 5. verse off the 56. chap. off Isaie Where the Lord promising to bring the Gentils into a better place of his temple then the Iewes had before dothe not obscurely declare that which I saide Vnto the twoo next diuisions pag 118 c. for replie I saie that he answereth not to the matter For the questiō is not whether we haue fewer or moe lawes then they but whether we haue direction by those lawes which we haue to all thinges whatsoeuer belongeth vnto vs to doo as they had to doo that which apperteined vnto them To proue that there is a word off God for all thinges vve haue to doo I alledged that othervvise our estate should be vvorse thē the estate of the levves Which the Ans confesseth to haue had directiō owte of lawe in the leste thing they had to doo And when yt is the vertue off a good lawe to leaue as litle vndetermined and withowte the
saying haue not answered the trust committed vnto them But if all godlie mindes doo abhor these absurdities there is no cause vvhy they should like of this corruption off the Doctor vvhereupon all these depende Na in that the Apostell putteth a sword in the hande off the Magistrates and in the vse off it maketh him a Minister and seruant off the vengeance and iustice off the Lord against sinne he striketh thorowe this opinion which imagineth that our sa Christe came to hange the sword off the Lordes iustice vpon the pleasure and vvill off men For the Magistrate being the Lordes officer as the Sheriff is the Magistrates yt is no more in his choise to vvithold the sword vvhich the lord hath put in his hand to drawe then in the power off the Sherif to staie the execution off that iudgement vvhich the magistrate him selfe hath lawefully commaunded Nowe seing there is a sword in the Magistrates hand by the doctrine off the Apostels and that also vvhich the magistrate must of dutie draw I vvould gladly knowe off the A. where that necessitie can be found if it be not in these crimes of blasphemy c. Which I haue set downe And if he saie that S. Paul by the sword vnderstandeth all manner off ciuill punishements as vvel by the pourse as by other bodelie chastisementes vvhich spare the life I graunt it but by an vsed maner off speache vvhich noteth the vvhole by the part he rather chose to vtter those punishemets by the sword thē ether by the vvhip or by the pourse Wherby he did not onely not exclude this necessitie off punishing malefactors by death but laied rather a streighter bond vpō the magistrate to execute those vvhich committ thinges vvorthie of death Hytherto generally of putting those to death vvhich commit thinges against the lawes remaining still in force as they vvere in times past established off the lord in the bloud off the transgressors Nowe I vvil come to the particular crimes vvhich I haue set downe And first for the crime off adulterie it is to be considered that yt is a breach off the most holy and auncient both institution and solemne couenant off the lord Then that it is an iniurie doon vnto the innocent part in the moste pretious possessiō that can be in thinges perteining to this present life ioyned with dishonour caste not onely vpō the person but vpō all his children and in a maner of al those which belōg vnto hī Thirdly that this fire doth not onely vvaste the familie vvhere yt is but maketh a breach into the cōmon vvealth vvhilest the right of inheritance ether of landes or offices is oftētimes thus translated frō the true inheriters vvhilest the children vvhich are so begotten hauing oftentimes les care and coste bestowed vppon them in their education become hurtefull members off the common vvealth Wherby all men may clearly see the perpetuall equitie off the lawe off God in the reuengement off this sinne by death And vvhen the lord addeth this for a reason off putting the adulterer to death that the euill may be taken ovvt off Israel vnto the heape off incommodities before rehersed for fault off exequuting his Iudgement off death he threateneth the whole common vvealth vvith mischeif to fall vppon yt And the equitie off this punishement by death hath so ligthsome colours vpon it that euen in this glymmering sight vvhich remaineth in the accursed nature off men it hath vpholden it self against the ignorance and iniustice off all vvhich haue not vvillingly put forth that sparkle vvhich standeth in the discretion of honestie For euen before this candell light of the lawe off God vvas set vp not onelie the Godlie as Iob vvhich vvere in some part reformed of the Generall blindenes but euen those vvhich vvere not of the church of god as Abimelech the king of Gerar ād the very Cananites as longe as there vvas any step off equitie amongest them did see that the filth off this sinne vvas such as ought to be vvashed away vvith the bloud of the offenders For vnhereas Isaac feared the assault both of his life ād of the chastitie of Rebecka the king ordeined that vvhosoeuer ether laide violent hand of him or had to doo vvith his wife should dye And in that Iuda called for Thamar to be led forth to death in the land off Canaan vvhere him selfe vvas but a priuate man for that she being made sure vnto a housband plaide the harlot he gaue to vnderstand that the Cananites vvhich had euen then filled a Good part off that measure off sinne vnto the brincke whereoff they came afterward did notwithstanding poursne adulterers vnto death And when the Lord did afterward gyue testimonie vnto this punishement by the expresse wordes of his lawe yt is manifest that the lawe which God hath written in the table off the hartes of all men pronounceth the sentence off death agaynst adulterers So that onles men will like Gyantes fight agaynst the light of nature or saye that our Sa. Christe came to abolishe that which in all times and with all nations not alltogether spoiled off the discretion off honestie and dishonestie was obserued yt foloweth that the punishement off death against adulterers and consequently muche more against incestuous meetinges standeth in as full force nowe as euer yt did before the cōming of our Sa. Christe And when as adulterie being the least off those faultes which I haue set downe is found worthy of death Yt is easye to see what is the iudgement off the reste Howbeit hauing spoken somewhat before off the ciuill punishement off those which offend against the seruice off God and more being to be saide vppon occasion afterward that the necessary punishement off murtherers by death may haue with the rest some particular defence let some thing be said thereoff Firste the consent off all nations were they neuer so sauage in punishing this sinne with death teacheth that yt is the lawe of nature which can not be broken nor dispensed with yt is further to be noted that the causes remaining whereupon that necessitie off punishement by death was grownded in the lawe the punishement must still remaine The Lord sheweth these causes of not sauing the life off a murtherer at any hand first because the bloud vvhich his hand hath shed poluteth the land so that there can be no purgation off yt but in the bloud off the murtherer secōdly because the Israelites whiche were the people of God ād thirdly because the lord him selfe had his abode there cōsidering first that the strenght of this sin̄e in polluting a land is as great as euer it was onles for grace giuen to one murtherer men will call the wrath off God vppon a whole people the necessitie off putting murtherers to death remaineth vnshaken Then forasmuch as Christian cōmon wealthes are the people off God amongest whom he maketh speciall residence beside the common obligation whereby all men
are bound in the lawe of nature to punishe a murtherer by death Christian common wealthes haue two newe bondes whereby they are tied to a more streighter obseruation of this seueritie Last of al as this iudiciall lawe was giuen of God long before Moses so not to be in the nomber off lawes corrected by the comming of our Sa. Christ yt is manifest by his owne wordes whereby he confirmed this lawe of God saying that vvhosoeuer tooke vpp the svvord should perishe vvith the svvord And there is no doubt but if he had had like occasion to speake of other ciuil punishement by death established in the lawe as he had of this he would haue brought the same confirmation of them that he did off this The exceptions against this doctrine are off no valwe For if this be the truth of God there can be no prerogatiue against yt onles he can shewe some higher court then heauen and some cheif iustice aboue the Lord yt is not denied but the punishementes by death wherewith men haue established lawes which them selues haue for their better commoditie deuised may be ether mitigated or taken away by those to whom it apperteined nether is the magistrate by any thing I haue set downe bound to mitigate the punishement of theeues for their punishement may growe by the circumstance of place as in Scithia where all thinges lying opeÌ„ to the spoile had neede to belocked vp by a streighter punishemeÌ„t and some times by the disposition of the people lighter handed then others as if one had to doo with the LacedemonieÌ„s or some other nation in whom that sinne had taken deeper roote And I will not denie â–ª but euen these crimes of murther and adulterie may varie by diuers circumstances and therefore yt is in the discretioÌ„ of the magistrate according to the quantitie of the fault to appoint the maner of death sharper or softer But that there is any place time or other circumstance which can lessen these crimes that they should not be worthie of death vpon the reasons before alledged I vtterly denie As for the casting away of the studie and large volumes of the lawe which he imagineth to followe of this assertion he deceiueth hym selfe For euen when these lawes were fully in force the Iudges thereoff by reason of their shortnes comprehending many thinges not expressed had matter enoughe to occupie the greatest diligence memorie and sharpnes of vvit that could fall into any And if he aske our lawiers vppon vvhat groundes the greatest part off their houge volumes as he calleth them stand they will answer him they partly stand vppon the plaine vvordes off the lawe off Moses and partly off reason vncorrupt which is the equitie off the lawe vrged off vs And therfore althoughe our lawes be some time in forme diuerse from the lawes off Moses yet they vvill neuer graunt him which he hath not so aduisely set downe that our healthsome lawes be contrarie to Moses lawes For both being Good one off them can not be contrarie to the other where he saith that we of the clergie should be the best iudges by this meanes c. it is to open iniurie to charge vs with that vvhich vve openly renounce and condemne in him vvhich is that in medling in ciuill affaires they put their sickle in an other mans haruest Notwitstanding if in establishing of lawes for the Godly and peaceable gouernement off the common welth there may be no assistance of the ministerie wherby the lawes should be the better coÌ„passed to the equitie prescribed in the word of God and to take heede that nothing be doon against it there is no iust cawse to vphold the Bishops presence in the Parlament howse Where he saith that the lawes which our sa Christe made Mat. 5. 19 â–ª towching diuorcement for adulterie had been to no pourpose if the adulterer should off necessitie be put to death first he may be here iustly charged with that he hath vntruly surmised off me because he bringeth in our sa Christe a maker off lawes vnder the gospell whereas he made none in those places but expounded the lawe of God vvhich he had made from the beginning The other refusals made by the Iewes off their wiues were neuer any lawes but permissions onely and therefore in there abolishement there was no lawe of God abrogated Secondly yt was necessarie to vse that exposition notwithstanding that the punishement of the lawe by death remained For beside that the Iewes being vnder the gouernement off the Romanes had those ciuill punishements by death suspended vpon the pleasure off their officers which were often corrupted our sa Christe forseing all thinges did forsee what loosenes would followe in this behalfe And therfore as the office off a Good Doctor required he instructed the conscience and taught that albeit the Magistrate failed in the execution of the lawe yet that the former yoke being broken men were at their libertie to enter into a newe contract of mariadge with other Whereby he met with the corrupt opinion off those which dreame that the knot of mariadge is not cut a sunder by adulterie duriÌ„g the life of the parties maried Of the autorities which are brought to proue that the punishements by death off the lawe off God are taken away there is not one onely but Cyrill which maketh agaynst this cause yea which doth not ether in part or alltogether ouerturne his assertion And as for Cyrill I can at no hand allowe the reason shall appeeare where the clawes of this sentence are more plainly seen Augustine in the place cited vnto Pollentius hath nothing for the Doctor For he setteth him selfe to proue vppon the place off S. Iohn that the howsband ought to forgiue his wife seing our sa Christe forgaue the adulteresse Wherin not to enter into question whether that be well reasoned of Augustine or no and to passe by the aduantage which Erasmus autoritie may giue which calleth that sentence off August a hard sentence I answer that yt is one thing to say a priuate man should forgiue his iuiuries and nother thing to say that the Magistrate is not bound to take aduengement of them A priuate man may with commendation forgyue the trespace agaynst him selfe where the magistrate shal be in great fault if he poursew not yt And iff that place of August perteine vnto the Magistrate and our Sa. Christes example proue that the Magistrate neede not punishe adultery by death yt proueth as well that he neede not punishe adulterie at all For bothe our Sa. Christe forgaue her fâ—ely and gaue no sentence of any ciuill punishement against â—â—r and Augu will haue the howsband freely forgiue his adulterous wife Nay the place off Augustine maketh against him for â—n that he exhorteth the howsbaÌ„d to spare the bloud or life of his wife yt appeareth that in the church of God in his times this crime of adulterie was punished by death Musculus albeit
his maner off speache in saying that all Moses is abrogated be hard yet I would first aske hym what aduantage he can take here for the abrogation off the Iudiciall which is not the same against the Morall Then let it be obserued howe far against the meaning of the autor the Ans hath wrong this sentence and howe he is but a snatcher at sillabels and a tearer of lerned mennes wordes from their meaning The meaning off Musculus was that these lawes abrogated as they were giuē by Moses remaine notwithstāding as they cōteined a perpetual equitie For in the same title off lawes he writeth thus There are saith he vvhich thinck that Christe did abrogate the punishement prescribed by the lavve against adulterers vvhen he saide nether doo I condemne the goo and sinne no more These be gaie fellovves they thinke not of this that our Sa. Christe came into the vvorld not to iudge or punishe but to saue sinners and yet in the meane season not to take avvay the punishementes of the lavve gyuen of God his father by Moses VVhereupon he sayde not symply I condemne the not or thovv oughtest not to be condemned off any c. And so sheweth howe if she had bene condemned according to the sentence off the lawe that the Lord would not haue saide against yt The like trust he hath vsed in alledging off M. Caluin Which albeit he saie that there be certen Iudicialls to the precise obseruation whereoff the magistrate is not bound which I did likewise set downe yet that he esteemed certen Iudicialls vnchangeable and those especially which I haue alledged it may appeare in that he calleth it the Popishe diuinitie that the sentence off our Sau. Christe in the eight off Iohn brought any grace to adulterers as towching the ciuill punishemēt And in an other place he saithe that yt is the common right or lavve of all natiōs that adulterers should be put to death which he affirmmeh also of murtherers in the place set downe by the D. and that yt is a sortishe imitation off our Sauiour and proceding from a grosse ignorance Vnder colour off the place in S. Iohn s. to release the punishement of adulterers prescribed in the lawe And in an other place speaking off the false Prophet which tourning away the people from God is commanded to be put to death he saithe that lavve is euerlasting apperteining as well vnto vs nowe as vnto the Iewes in times past and pincheth them which say otherwise As for M. Beza which is here brought yt is knowne that euen in the same booke owt of which these testimonies be cited off the Ans he proueth that heretikes owght by vertue off the lawe off God gyuen by Moses to be put to death Whereby appeareth that all these will haue certen Iudicialls off moses and those especially that giue sentence off death against the crimes which I setdowne to be still in as full force as euer they were Vnto whom I could adde Peter Martyr which hath a longe dispute off the necessarie obseruation off the punishement off the lawe against adulterers And as for Hemingius considering that he agreeth that so much remaineth off necessitie as perteineth to the lawes of nature he maketh nothing against me which both haue shewed and further am readie to shewe that all those crimes are off that kinde which by the lawe off nature ought to receiue the reward of death Howe for so much as the 8. Diuision off the 2. cha in the 3. Tract perteineth vnto this matter I will here set downe the answer off yt 8. Diuiston pa. 149. Here is to encounter withe Zacharie the Prophet Cyrill and suche a corrupte sentence off Cyrill as doothe at once bothe ouerthrowe vnder the lawe the iustice of God againste synne in the worlde to comme and vnder the Gospell all manner off corporall punishementes in this worlde to be executed by men vppon those whiche hauinge done euill repente them For yt dothe not onelye affirme but yt goethe a bowte to proue that the synne whiche was vnder the lawe punished by corporal deathe coulde not be punished off the lorde by eternall deathe which as it is a wicked error the rewarde off synne beinge not onely deathe off the body but off the sowle also so the two pillers wheroff yt standethe are as detestable For the firste whiche is that they haue suffred punishemente fo their synnes and receiued the revvarde off their vvickednes so that for that faulte vvhiche they so suffer for there can be no reuengement aftervvarde hange ouer their sovvles yt is no les despiteful to the iustice of god and iniurious to the deathe of Christe then the popishe doctrine of supererogatiō For if an adulterer by suffrīg deathe for his crime hathe āswered the iustice of god so that the lorde for that faulte can not take aduenge mente of his sowle when a man suffrethe withowte cause and for righteousnes sake howe owghte he not beside his owne purgacion for synne purchase somewhat for him that lackethe As for the other reason yt is moste false For the lorde punishe the one synne by other synnes by deathe in this worlde and by deathe in the worlde to come yt is also a false grounde off the Pelagian heretike wherwithe he woulde proue that our original corruption is no synne whiche can deserue the wrathe off god And as the former parte fighte the for the Papistes and for the Pelagians so this other standethe for the Anabaptistes men whom the aswerer pretendethe to haue war withe but to whom in deede he ministrethe weapons suche as they be to fighte againste the trewthe For yf this be not Anabaptisticall that there is no bodily punishemente laide vpon publike offenders vnder the gospell and that whatsoeuer offence he committe if he shewe tokens off repentance he maye be deliuered from bodylie punishemente I knowe not what is Anabaptisme For what murtherer is there what traitor c. whiche althoughe he be neuer so vnrepentante and obstinate in his synne hauinge hearde tell off the answerers gracious pardon will not enforce himselfe to shewe all tokens off repentance whiche if he doo the eie off mens iudgemente beinge not hable to perce further then to thes owtwarde signes they muste haue him for repentante althowghe he remaine the same whiche before And if there be one suche sentence in all either the admonition or my replie so iniurious to the office off the magistrate so pernicious vnto all manner of common welthes as this is wee refuse not that I maye also promise for the Admonitors to be taken as enemies vnto the magistrate and as ouerturners off common welthes For this is the sworde whiche S. Paule put in the magistrates hande to be drawne not of pleasure but off dewtie not againste the vnrepentante onelye but againste the vnrighteousnes off those whiche shall publikly offende whatsoeuer either striken cleane owte of his hande or els if ante
diuersitie betwene the lawe and the Gospell whiche I haue alledged maye be fetched from those lerned men whiche handle this poincte yt is enowghe for me so to haue helped the answerer owte withe that whiche he trauailed with that I haue not onelie shewed howe this cause is nothinge hindered but greatly helped therby Yff the plaine wordes off the Prophete Zacharie will not serue for our pourpose what shall become off your cause that hathe neuer a worde of the scripture let vs then heare why it will not serue Because forsoothe by that meanes the parentes shoulde haue powre of deathe vppon their children and therfore their muste some other sense be sowgthe then that vvhiche the vvordes doo proporte Wherunto I answere that Moses shewinge vvhat owghte be doone agaīste those false teachers whiche goe abowte secretly to vvithdrawe frō the trewe worship of God saithe that allthoughe he be his brother his soōe his dawgther or his wiffe he shal not spare but fill them Tell men owe I praie yow doothe not Moses meane there truly and as his vvordes sounde that the false teacher shall die If yow dare not denie yt then yow see yowr reason vvhiche yow heere assigne is nothing vvorthe for there also yt is commanded to the father to kill his sonne Now if yow liste to lerne yow maye perceiue that by thes vvordes vnderstanded simplie there is no powre giuen to one priuate man to kil another nor for the parente as a priuate man to kill his children but this manner off speache is grounded vppon the lawe off God vvherby yt vvas prouided that the witnesse vvhiche had accused shoulde throwe the firste stone againste the conuicted person for so muche therfore as boothe Moses and Zachary after Moses wil haue the father accuser of his owne childe if the knowledge off his inticemente to Idolatrie remaine vvithe him alone therfore also they ascribe the killinge of the giltie person vnto them as a thinge belonginge vnto the dewtie off the accuser But seeinge this sense please the yow not let vs heere what yow bringe Yf saithe he yow will referre yt to the tyme of the gospell then this is the true meaninge if to the time off the lawe then that Yf al be gospell yow speake vve muste needes beleue yow ▪ yf your wordes haue no further aucthoritie then yow gyue them by Good reason and conference off the scriptures then castinge a waye the sense whiche hathe warrante off the manyfeste wordes off the Scripture yow shoulde haue confirmed by substanciall argumentes that whiche yow haue set downe The prowde Sorbonistes and Magistri nostri off Paris did neuer vsurpe a more absolute auctoritie and more owte off rule then this is And yt is to bringe in an intollerable Tyrannie into the churche off God and lordeshippe not to be abydden Whiche when I vnderstande off all interpretations off men be they neuer so lerned and sharpe muche more off suche wooden interpretations whiche the answerer thruste the vppon vs But tell me Good Sir what difference is there betwene yowr firste interpretation and yowr seconde For iff vnder the gospell it be lawfull as yowr exposition suppose the for parentes to kyll ther children whiche shall prophecey falsely what leue yow to the Iewes wherin they differ from the Christians and tell me also howe yow differ herin from that whiche I set downe that Idolatrie ovvghte to be punished vvithe deathe vnder the gospell But pardon me I thinke I see yowr difference which is that the Iewes muste doo yt accordinge to the lawe off Moses and the Christians accordinge to the lawe off whome why kepte yow backe that Surely iff the Christians be bounde to doo yt as yowr interpretation saythe they are bounde to doo yt by the lawe off Moses for I knowe no other lawe off preceptes but that There is yet another difference whiche yowr wordes maye gyue suspicion off that is that the Christian parentes shoulde rather put them to deathe then be withdrawne by them so that the Iewes haue a symple commaundemente to put them to deathe but the Christians haue yt vnder condition yf they can not otherwise kepe still the trewe worshippe off god But where and in what shopp is this difference coyned Whose Image and superscription beare the yt the Doctors What Paules no Whitgyftes I knowe him not yt is not good For howe shall they be sure they shall not be withdrawne by him onles they procure hym to be put to deathe And althowghe they were owte off perill off beinge withdrawen how are other prouided for whome he maye corrupte And yff it were possible that poison which he hathe coulde not hurte any other where is the reuenge off Godds glorye whiche hathe bene dishonored by suche false teachinge and in the maintenance vvheroff the zeale off the children off God aswell vnder the gospell as vnder the lawe dothe consiste Thes differences betwene his interpretacions he giueth incklinge off but the folye off them was so apparante that he durste not laye them open And althowge vve haue alredy to manye interpretations by one yet here comethe the thirde And this is an allegorie whiche expoundeth killinge confutinge Where firste the answerer shoulde haue remembred that he condemned in the Admonition allygoryinge as Papistical vvhiche in deede is not so muche Papisticall as Anabaptisticall allbeit they fetched their allegorie from two famous men maister Hoper and Maister Alasco Here yt is Catholike in him that was there Papisticall in them then obserue Good reader howe he that chalenged the Admo For makinge the holy scripture a nose off wax and me that I make yt yt a shipmans hose hathe here set vpp three interpretations off one and the same place Off vvhiche althoughe neuer a one can stande vvith a nother yet becawse he thinkethe they all make for him he stickethe not euen to strike hym selffe to gyue a pricke vnto the truthe And as for maister Luther I answere withe Ierome whiche albeit he did not so well practise it him selfe yet in one place of the smaller Prophetes that cometh not now to my minde saithe that to seeke for an alligorie vvhere a Plaine and litterall sense maie be had is to seeke a knotte in a rishe Seinge therfore the scripture meaneth here as it speaketh and calleth a spade a spade and a figg a figg to expounde killinge confuttinge and corporall vveapons spirituall and heretikes heresies is by Maister Luthers Good leaue owte off season Futhermore if Maister Luther shoulde by confutinge off their herysies shut owte the corporall punishmente off deathe he hath the Answ interpretation whiche he calleth thē true meaninge off the place for enemie So that either maister Luthers meaninge was that they shoulde not onely put them to deathe but also confute their heresies or els yt serueth as well to ouerthrowe that whiche the answerer hathe set downe as that which we mainteine But obserue here I beseche yow the shamfull practise off the Answ If Maister Caluine or
men beare witnes that bothe here and almoste euery where yow wringe my wordes clean contrary to my meaninge and therin I am well contente the Iudgemente remain with the reader And althowghe I am fully perswaded that ther was no occasion taken off euill by this doctrine yet if any weare it beinge the doctrine of the holy Goste whoso euer hathe taken occasion of euill hathe without repentance borne his punishemente and so shall yowe moste assuredly in that daye wherin the mouthe off wickednes shall be stopped Yt maie not be passed by that he in the begininge of the firste of thes sections matched the lawes off the Iewes whiche were the lawes gyuen by God him selfe vvithe the lawes of the moste barbarous and Prophane Tyrant that euer was suche is the reuerece he beareth to the lawes of god Note also that where I saie that I vvill ioyne vvithe him that the transgressions off the lavve vnder the gospell are to be seuerelyer punished then they vvere vnder the lavve He in pretendinge and makinge a brage that he woulde ioyne slyppethe me clean a syde and saythe that he will ioyne withe me that the magistrate is not bounde to the iudiciall lawe off Moses for the manner off punishinge as thowghe that were any thinge like that whiche I propounded And in that he answerethe no one worde to the two reasons whiche I alledged that is to saye for that bothe the knovvledge off the lavve is greater novve then thē and other gyftes off the spirite off God vvherby the lavve shoulde be better kepte more aboundantly povvred oute novve then then he dothe not onely slyppe a side but turnethe his blinde partes towardes me Nowe to returne backe to the Diuis pag. 123. I leaue to the iudgement off the reader howe importunate an aduersarie the D. is vvhich requireth answer of that which hath been so often answered In the next Diuis p. 124. seeking to mainteine his logicke in diuiding and defining he maketh him selffe pytifull to all that euer saluted that scoole For what an absurd saying is yt that becawse the definition off a generall thing agreeth vnto his particular therfore yt is the definition off the particular As though euery thing vvhich vvere verefied of an other were by and by the definition off it or as thoughe the same coulde be the definition of the generall and of the speciall And what a miserable defence of his diuisiō is yt which to proue that his three last partes are not conteined vnder the first alledgeth that they are not all one with the first But as I promised I will leaue this to the learned reader that I leese not the tyme in confuting off these tryfles The rest off his section is answered before In the next beside the sentence which I denie and he vntruly fathereth off Zuing. that in Ceremonies thinges are to be vsed in the church which are not conteined in the scriptures ▪ There is nothing which maketh any thing vnto the questiō For where he saieth that I mislike that of Zuing. If they be not repugnant to the vvord I haue tould him before that I neuer found fault with that but becawse he condēned the Ad. which will haue thē caste in the mould off the word off god And as for Maister Bezaes sentence repeted here off discipline left in the order off the church and that some thinges doon off the Apostles are not alvvaies to be follovved off vs whereby it seemed the D. would make the reader belieue that he meaneth this off the pointes of discipline nowe debated yff I should herein charge him with vntrue dealing vppon Maister Bezaes booke off epist. Which declareth in so many places and wordes that there is a Discipline off God left vnto his churche vnchangeable and precisely determined in the word off God and howe he maketh the partes thereoff the same which the D. fighteth against with might and maine he would paraduenture saie that he could take no notice off that which was not yet brought to light But when the same booke from whence he drewe thes outorities mainteneth those partes off discipline towching the Eldershipp the consent off the church in Eccesiasticall elections the right institution off Deacons c. as necessarye which he will haue arbitrarie he owght to haue vnderstanded that those thinges which M. Beza noteth vnder the name off Discipline left at the order off the church are nothing lesse then these which he would insinuate Which he might yet easelier haue vnderstanded by the place which he alledgeth out off the Corinthes that leaueth yt not in the churches power ether who shall gouerne or what they ought to doo which must gouerne but howe that gouernement which is prescribed may be vsed most decently in regard off circumstance off time c. For euen in that place the Apostle defining off certen pointes of discipline as that vvemen ought not to speake in the church c. declared sufficiently that he ment not to leaue the gouernement off the church in her owne disposition and order But what M. Beza ment by this arbitrarie Discipline yt shall yet better appeare in the next tractate off the Election off the church where this here spoken generally shall there belaied open by example the reste off this Diuis is answered In the next Diuis I leaue yt to the iudgement off the reader whether I haue truly gathered off his wordes As for the defense he maketh to proue Truly and Purely all one for so he must if he mainteine his answer the first reason he bringeth that a man may preache true thinges and not truly is cleane ouerthrowne by his owne answ for to ouerthrowe that which he falsely attributeth vnto the Adm. that the word is not truly preached becawse the Ministers are not duely called he saithe that the reason is not Good becawse ho we wicked soeuer the man be which preacheth yet he may preache the true word off God. Here ether the Ans must make to preache true thinges and to preache truly all one or els he hath not answered to the argument he supposeth the Adm. to vse The other is for that S. Paul vseth these wordes in truthe for syncerely Wherein beside the former fault which is the contrarietie with him selfe he should haue learned that that maner off speach is taken off the Ebrues which as they call a lie not onely that which is spokē but that which is doon or imagined against the truthe so likewise contrary Which maner off speach not being receiued in our tounge is fondly and out off time pretended considering also that the translatiōs in our tounge as in others haue shunned that phrase as that which they could not reache vnto Tract 2. and 3. according to the D. Off election of the minister Cap. 1. Diuis 1. Off the Tryall off ministers in learning and conuersation THe replie standeth vpon the certeine and vnfallible grounde off the worde off God which is that the
table Iudas treason was as yet hidden there were no witnesses off it and therfore by no law off God either ciuill or ecclesiasticall could be proceaded against For the law off God in all ecclesiasticall and ciuill punishmentes requireth either confession by the partie off the faulte vvhiche is committed or els profe by witnesse He proceedeth saying that the Scribes and Pharises criminous c. are commaunded to be hard in the chaire c. Good lord be mercifull vnto vs whether vvill this man goo vvill he haue traitors vnto Christ sworne open and professed enemies vnto the gospel to haue charge in the church off God and not to be deposed for whether can these examples tend els our Sauiour Christ commaunded the people that they should be heard in that they said trewly owt off the law and that their faultes should not hinder theÌ„ to embrace that which they taught well What is that to our question this dothe aptely proue that the vertue off the worde dothe not depende vpon the worthynes off the minister and thetherto it is referred But to proue that they owght not haue bene deposed from theire ministerie there is not a word But why did our Sauiour Christ not depose them And vvhy did he vvill there doctrine agreable to the law to be receiued He deposed them not for that as he was the Minister off circumcision he coulde not hauing not to doo that wayes but vvithe those that vvoulde submit themselues to his doctrine And if he should haue giuen sentence off there deposition they vvould not haue obeied yt and he had not the svvorde to compell them This therfore remained for hym to doo that vvhen neither the people could shake off their yoke nor he displace them that as he had often giuen warning off their false doctrine so he should will them to take heede that neither the hatred off there euill liffe nor off their false doctrine driue them to mislike off that vvhich vvas well taught And iff this be a good reason to proue that those that be criminouse should not be deposed because our Sauiour Christ willed the people to heare c Then spirituall theues and murtherers corrupters off the law teachers off iustification by workes owght not to be put owt off the ministerie For those off vvhom our Sauiour Christ spake these thinges were suche And as for the wicked preachers in the church off Philippos fyrst yow are greatlie abused For althowghe he vvrite vnto the Philpiane yet these preachers he there speaketh off were in the church of Rome and not in the church of Philip. And theÌ„ if I should aske yow how yow know that he did not will their ministerie to be taken from them your owne mouth condeÌ„neth yow For by your rule it is presumption to speake any thinge that the holie gost hathe not expressed And it is not onelie not expressed but it can not be gathered For if yow thinke that therfore he willed them not to be deposed because he was gladd that Christ was preached by them yow deceiue your selfe For he saith if he vvere offered vp and should die for confirmatioÌ„ of his ministerie yet he vvould reioice in it and requireth the vvhole church to reioyce vvithe him for yt Would not therfore S. Paule haue escaped the TiraÌ„tes hand if he might lawfuly or owght not the church of Philippos to haue forbiddeÌ„ the puttinge to death off the Apostell yff they could haue done yt So that yow see a man maye reioyce at the fruite off an action that an other doeth which if it laie in him to let he owght not suffer to be done For when as of euill doinge maye come good as we owght to be sorie at the euill which is done so it is lawfull for vs to reioice of the good vvhich hathe followed that euill And this distinction off reioycinge S. Paul dothe include in these wordes in this vvhich he setteth downe to be in that Christ is preached As yff he would saye yt greueth me that the word is preached by suche men but yet I am glad that yt is preached And althowghe it be hard to knowe how they sought to add to S. Paules bandes yet if be trew that the greke Scoliast vvriteth that they did it to this ende that the persecutors seing the numbre off the professors of Christ might beinge more inflamed against S. Paul as one vvhich had sowen the first seed the rather hasten his death vvho seeth not that it had bene the churches parte at Rome to haue to the vttermost off their power endeuored to haue stopped the mouth off those preachers therfore I am well assured that yf the godlie off the church vvhich vvas at Rome could haue restreyned those preachers they vvould not haue suffred them to haue abused the gospell to his streighter imprisonment much lesse to the taking away off his life And therfore that they were not restreined proueth nothinge that they owght not by any meanes so to haue bene but rather argueth the fewnes of the church which fauoured sinceritie off the gospell that S. Paule preached which fewnes also appeareth in an other place The next reason is verie straunge that everie one which is a membre off the inuisible church should be a minister off the visible For by this meanes may be taken not onelie the most vnhablest in the church but those also which are not yet called to the church But your meaning is if he be off the church and other thinges correspondent yet one off those conditions is no where expressed and the other is almost thirtie lines before in an other sectioÌ„ aÌ„d in an other case so that it is daungerously spoken and may gyue very great occasion off offense And I leaue it to the consideratioÌ„ of the teâ—der how often yow haue quarreled vvhere there is nothing the like occasion as yow giue by this losenes I will also let goo your vnproper and vnwonted speach wherby yow make one and the same at one and the same tyme a membre off the visible and inuisible church For seinge the inuisible church vppon earth is off those onely which either are not called or lie hid aÌ„d vngathered vnto any knoweÌ„ felowship where the word of God is preached and the sacrameÌ„tes administred he which by repentaunce ioineth him selffe to the visible church off God can not be said to be a membre off the inuisible church For as when the triumphant church is opposed vnto the militante one man at one time can not be said to be a membre off bothe so here where yow oppose the visible and inuisible church it can not be that he that is said to be a membre off the one should be also a membre off the other But for answere I saie that if there were here any comparison at all yet it halteth downe right althowghe we owght charytably to thinke that he that hath giuen good tokens off repentance hath trewlie repented and therfore is
There are but two communities one Anabaptisticall which maketh equalitie off all thinges which is and euer was vnlawfull the other Christiā vvhich prouideth for neede of those vvhiche haue not vvherwith to finde them selues vvhich is and owghte to be perpetuall amongeste all Christians Therfore yow can not escape vvith this circuit of vvordes for either that communitie in the Actes vvas suche as owghte to be amongeste vs vvhiche yow denie and propounde as an absurde thinge or els it vvas Anabaptisticall vvhich is blasphemous againste the spirite off God. Althowghe men maie be good Christians withowte sellinge their landes and distributings of the price off them vnto those whiche haue nede yet they can not be good Christiās if for necessarie releife of the poore of the churche weroff they are they be not contente to sell the neede so requirring euen their landes And suche was the estate of the churche off Ierusalē vvhere there were so manie poore and so fewe riche that the vvante of those vvhiche had not vvith muche a doo vvas supplied by sale off landes and howses off them that had suche possessions Which extreme pouertie maie easely be seene in other places vvhere not hable to be fournished of the riche of that churche yt vvas faine to be supplied by diuers other Vnto the reasons alledged owte off S. Paule to proue that the same communitie is commaunded of him to all Christians yowe answere not one worde Vnto the vvhiche I vvill ad this that I doubte not but that vvhiche vvas doone there vvas so farre from oxtraordinarie doinge that yt vvas doone by the cōmaundemente of God in the lawe vvhere the lorde chargeth the Israelites that there shoulde be no beggers amongeste them For Saincte Luke seemeth to haue alluded to that place whē he saithe there vvas no needy amongeste them vvhich expresseth moste aptely the Hebrew worde which Moises vsethe That which I browghte off Ananias and Saphira was to proue there was no suche communitie amongeste them as yowr answer supposed and to glase vp the the windowes of Anabaptistry vvhich yow had opened And surely if the anabaptistes had as they neither haue nor can haue warrant of their communitie by this example off the moste pureste and ancientest church and in deede then the onely church in the worlde approued by all the Apostels replenished vvith the spirite off God they shoulde haue stronger houlde then M. D. shoulde euer be hable to pull from them I doo not thincke yow fauour the Anabaptistes communitie but partly seduced off others and partely overcaried vvith the violence off yowr affections yow are vnawars fallen into that errer vvherby the Anabaptistes grownde it Where I saide that all off the churche did not sell their possessions I confesse the worde possession was not so aduisedly put seinge therby is properly signified howse and lande and those which vvee call vnmouable goodes vvhiche Saint Luke saithe vvere solde off as many as had them But yet nothinge falleth of that for vvhich I did alledged yt and it is rather therby confirmed For shewinge that all owners off howse and land did sell them and not that euery one vvhich had other goods did the like therby is gyuen to vnderstande that not euery one which had monay or other mouables brought them vnto the Apostels The Adm. reason yow are not able to stir For yf S. Paul. For auoiding suspicion in a monay matter did communicate the election with the churches vvhy should he not to auoide suspicion off percialitie ambition and tyranny communicate with them the election off the ministers Surely he was as far from suspition off this couetous trechery with all men as from suspition off these faultes And so much farther as such excellent wittes and learninge as was in him are easelier ouercome off those other vices then off this pilferinge off monay which the grosser and vnlearned sorte for the moste parte offende in Na vvhy shoulde not S. Paule be in feare off this monay suspicion if he had taken vpon hym the election off the ministers shuttinge owte the churches Doo yow thincke that those which woulde haue doone hym that iniurie to thinke that he woulde haue turned the churche money vnto his owne vse which often times with his owne hande erned bothe his owne lyuing and others too vvhich refused the wages which he might iustly haue chalenged woulde not also haue suspected hym off the same faulte if he had chosen the ministers at his pleasure withowte consente off the churche Or doo yow not thincke that there are manie which suspecte diuers off the Bishopps that waie which saie that for a dishe of fruicte of the gouldē gaiffe they lease owte and make all manner off marchandise of the Lordes orchardes that he vvhich hathe no gifte in his harte yet if he haue a gifte in his hande neede no other keie to opē the church doore and enter into a benefyce Yf therfore for the auoidinge of suspiciō of corruption by moneie it was needeful for Sainct Paule to communicate the election off such ministers with the churche howe muche more was yt needefull for the auoidinge off bothe the suspition off that vice and diuers others he shoulde doo the like in the ordinary ministers And if that vvhere needefull in S. Paule for vpholdinge off his honeste estimation to the greater fruicte off the gospell I saie as I saide vvhat Archebishop shall dare take vppon him the makinge off a minister vvithovvte consente off the churche For if Saint Paules innocencie of life vvhich as the diamonte a peble stone might shame all the Archbishoppes that liue this daie had neede off this aide they muste off necessirie runne into suspicion off all those vices vvhiche contemninge the iudgemente off the churches make suche elections off their owne autoritie Where yow saie that Saint Paule mighte have chosen them him selfe if he woulde I saie that it is vntrue ād a manifeste begginge of that in controuersie And to saie so is asmuche as if yow had saide he mighte haue hazarded his good estimacion if he woulde and lefte it at the curteousye off quarellers which sowghte euery occasion of speakinge euil of his ministerie Beside that yow muste vnderstande that in the gouernmente of the churches the Apostels vvere gouerned by the spirite of God whose counsaile when this was it was no more lawful for him to refuse yt thē to disobey the lorde Touching the vntrewth he chargeth me with in that I saide the churche chose 1. Act. it is before answered And it is a vaine quarell of the A. that there was no election off the church becawse an Apostel maie not be chosen by men As thowghe I had not set downe before when I spake off that election that I mean not the choise which was made off one owte off those two but the choise off those two owte of the whole churche not that choise which determined the Apostellshipp but which determined who they shoulde stande
gyuen vnto the people againste their vvill nether by oppression of mighty men vvhiche is detestable let the cytisens or clergie be dravven to gyue their consente And thus muche for answer to yowr Councels To fetche a commaundemente out off the booke off numbers is to fetche yt out off the higheste courte off heauen And I was not constreined vnto it for off more then halfe a score reasons brewghte whether one off them be once moued by yow I leaue it to be iudged This commaundement pinched yow so that albeit yow pretende lawghter yet I dowbte not but yt is Sardons lawghter that is to saie from the teethe owtwarde where yow saie there is no worde which signifieth an election yt is yowr olde boldnes off denying that which is as cleare as the none daies Where also yow saie that it speakinge off layinge on off handes can make nothinge for the election off the church I beseche yow syr how doo yow proue that Timothe hathe the choise of ministers ys it not by thes wordes that he is bidden not to laie on his handes and haue yow not saide that by the layinge on off handes the whole solemnitie off creatinge ministers is vnderstanded this is faste and lose and not onely as Teconius said that that vvee vvill is holie but when wee vvill and as longe as vvee vvill Belike the laying on off handes signifieth nothinge or if it doo and not the consente off the people Why doothe not the Answ tell vs what And where he goeth abowte to finde some differēce in this and that vvhich I saie off the layinge on of handes by the Eldershippe and heroff besides the peintinge off his mergente speaketh ones twise and the thirde tyme accordinge to his olde manner of repeticiōs He purposely as seemeth passeth by my answer to that obiection that not the people but certeine that is to saie the elders in the name off the people did laie on their handes as it is to bee seene in other places vvhere the gouernours in the name off all the people laie on their handes vpon the sacrifice for synne Where yow will mee to speake in good earneste If I had onely to doo vvith such a trifler I woulde either answer nothinge or els as such a one is worthie but because I haue to doo with the church off God for iudgement off the iudiciall and Ceremoniall law and for proofe off yowr vntrew dealing I refer my selffe to that I haue saide before Yff this I haue alledged off layinge on off handes vpon the ordeined bee a Ceremoniall lawe which tooke ende by the comming off our Sauiour Christe then the Apostels vvere iniurious vnto his deathe that translated that Ceremonie from the Iewes vnder the lawe into the churche vnder the Gospell Therfore in this poincte yow haue to doo with the Apostles and not with me For as vnder the lawe the gouernoures and the people consentinge into one action testified the same by layinge on off handes off the gouernours onely so vnder the Gospell the elders and people consentinge in the election off one doo testifie it by layinge on off handes off the Elders onely Where yow vvoulde proue yt abrogated because yt yt is ioined with other thinges which are abrogated I haue shewed howe that is an engyne to wreste owte off the handes off the church all the morall lawes that euer vvere vvritten Where yow saie there coulde be no election off the people in the leuytes for that God had chosen them Yow mighte haue vnderstanded that althowghe the tribe of Leuy onely were vsed to the ministerie yet all that tribe was not applied that vvaies but as many as vvere thowghte enoughe to supplie that office and those also not at all aduenture but by choise accordinge to their habilitie I feare not Maister W. the iudgemente off the greateste enemies I haue and frendes yow haue in this cause but that their owne consciences shall vvitnes vvithe mee off my faithfull alledginge off the scriptures and off yowr either notable ignorance or very euill conscience And in thes iestes off yowres and accusations off my byndinge men vnto the Ceremoniall lawe and bringinge them to Iudaisme and fetchinge off a mandatum owt off the ceremoniall lawe Were yow not a fraide by my sides to thruste thorowghe Cyprian Who fetcheth his profe for the election off the ministerie by the voice off the people owte off the booke off nombers vvhere mention is made also off the preistes garmentes vvhich vvas ceremoniall Or vvere yow not afraide thus to handle Maister Caluin His profe is fetched owt off Leuiticus vvhose speciall argumente is to handell ceremonies and mighte not I fetche a commaundement out off nombers which hath an other scope He onely vppō that it vvas cōmaunded that Moses shoulde bringe the Leuites before the congregation concluded that the peoples consente ovvghte to be had in the ministers choyse and was yt not lawfull for me hauinge the same grounde and further also the comaundement that the people shoulde laie on their handes to conclude as muche He toke his place from thence where nether in the chapiters before nor in that owte of the vvhich he fetcheth this there is any thinge but ceremonial And was it not lawful for me to take this sentence becawse other thinges in this chap. vvere ceremoniall but that I muste needes be thus iested on and my discretion so greatly required in handlinge the scripture Therfore I saie that I citing this place am no more Iewish then the Apostels then Cyprian then Caluin Where I alledged for the establishing off that vvhich he calleth a mandatum owt off the ceremoniall law that the grovvnd of childrens baptisme standeth vpon the ceremony off Circumcision He answering that circumcision was a figure off baptisme but that the Leuiticall priesthood was no figure off the Ministery off the Gospell is deceiued For certein thinges in the Ministrie off the lawe were figures off thinges in the Ministrie off the Gospell as their anointinge signified that none maie bee admitted vnto the ministerie off the Gospell but those which haue giftes meete for that purpose as our Sauiour Christe him selffe owte off Esai expoundeth yt Euen their sacrifices vvhich off all other thinges are furthest from the ministrie of the gospell shadowed out the mortyfyinge off synne by the sworde off the worde off God that the mynisters mighte offer the people vnto God an acceptable sacrifice throwgh Iesus Christe as appeareth by Saincte Paule And the lawes off the leuiticall priesthoode are not onely figures off our ministerie but often times also rules to directe yt by therfore as off that Aaron toke not vppon hym the preisthood before he vvas called off God the vvriter vnto the Hebrewes concluded the callinge off our Sauiour Christe to his preisthood so farre different from the preisthood off Aaron so wee conclude that no man maie put his foote into the ministrie oneles he bee called Thes argumentes
if Maister W. answer be good are auoided vvith a floute that they be a mandatum owte off the bookes off Leuiticus and Nombers that they carie vs to Iudaisme c. Yt is vvell the D. hath not to doo vvith the Anabaptistes For he is like enowgh to betraie that cawse vvhich hauinge so sure groundes in the scripture ▪ is here by him laied open to their mockerie For he saith that the 28. off S. Matthew is a generall grounde to proue the baptisme off Children When our Sauiour Christe speaketh there onely off those vvhich vvere off discretion as appeareth by that he biddeth them baptise those whom they haue made scolers off Christe by their doctrine And therfore for so much as the Apostels coulde not teache children nor coulde not make them disciples by teachinge before their baptisme yt is manifeste that he speaketh not there off childrens baptisme And this might he haue learned for his vse in the same booke off Zuinglius oute of which he hath taken so manie thinges to no pourpose And it is not onely Maister Zuinglius answer but other learned mennes vvhich haue had to doo vvith that secte As for the promise alledged that god is our God and the God of our seede albeit that bee the grounde wherupon the holy sacramentè off Baptisme is ministred vnto infantes yet yt is not sufficiente vvithout addinge the commaundement off God touchinge the circumcision off yonge children For iff the lorde hauinge gyuen that promise vnto Abraham had commaunded no circumcision at all or had onely commaunded yt to be gyuen to those off discretion yt had not bene lawfull for Abraham to haue circumcised his infantes yet they shoulde haue remained vnder the promes So that vvhether Yow vvill or no wee muste come to reason from circumcision vnto baptisme Neither is that yow alledge of Circumcision to haue beene a figure off baptisme sufficient to deliuer yow oute off the nettes vvherwith yow snare yowr selfe For albeit yt bee a figure off baptisme yet yt is aceremonie and a principall parte off the ceremoniall lawe and yowr answer is generall againste all reasoninge from the ceremoniall lawe vnto that which is established vnder the gospell Therfore I vpholde still that yovvr ansvveres here and in other places tende to spoile vs off diuers pillers and principall buttresses off our religion Where he saithe he condemnethe not other churches which haue appoincted other orders of electing pastors I reporte me to thè reader whether the wordes be generall and vvhether the reasons he alledgeth for that purpose be likwise Nether can the D. shewe any reason why in Geneua vvhy in vvhole Dominions in Germanie Why in Scotlande in Fraunce also in the tyme off their peace this order off election by the consente off the people shoulde bee good and pernitious in England Which notwithstandinge owghte to haue bene shewed if there be anie I expounded the worde ovvght as reason vvheroff the lawe is founded and experience vvhich is often times the interpreter off the lawe tawgte me to shewe that vvhere the consente off all can not bee had ▪ there the thinge shoulde passe by the moste parte of those which haue intereste And where yow affirme that lawiers doo saie that that sentence is to bee vnderstanded of compartners or iointe tenantes in some howse or possession and not off the interest off bodies politike I am well contente they be interpreters of the lawe which they professe and therfore iff that be shewed me I will reste in that interpretation But the reason assigned that it seldome commeth to pas that they will all consente semethe not so stronge consideringe that there is not so great violence doone vnto the wordes off the lawe which may not be founde in other places if by the worde all the moste parte be vnderstanded Especially when allthowghe all doo not agree yet all haue had free voice in that matter And where yow saie that euen that lawe admitteth diuers exceptions that is not materiall For I laie not so muche weighte of this sentence as thowghe the cause should rise and fall vvith it I mente that as much credite mighte growe vnto the cause by this as by a prouerbe which is trewe For the moste part off which kinde off reasons not onely orators but the scripture yt selfe diuers times vseth And therfore if I gaine by this lawe that the ordinarie choise off ministers owght to be by the people I hath at I loked for But yt is to be obserued that where the A founde faulte vvith me for mitigatinge the necessitie off the worde ought by this exception if it maie be he notwithstandinge alledgeth fowre exceptions wherby the necessitie which he saithe that worde importeth is quite ouerthrowne And if those condicions be trewe then be like I did well vnderstande the worde ought the vnderstandinge wheroff he can not aforde me Yt is well you be no lawier For yowe that are so liberall off a dinners talke as to tell vs off Many together and Many senerally with so many exceptions to so smale pourpose if yow had beene studied that waies woulde haue troubled vs all for then yt is like vvee shoulde haue had alwaies Cesar for Christe and Paule the lawier for Saint Paule the Apostell But marke vvhat a trymme waie he hathe founde to proue that the whole parishe chuseth when the bishopp onely chusethe that they are willinge to haue hym whom they are compelled whether they vvill or no to receiue Yea and not onely that but that euery minister is chosen by the whole realme that is to saie by those which neuer sawe him nor heard off him But hath he forgotten firste that it is our controuersie whether the parliament haue doon well in establishing off suche an order off makinge ministers and whether this egge off the bishoppes election laied in propery could by the sitting vppon off the Parliament although neuer so godly leese the poysoned nature it had before If that bee not agreed this deuise that the people chuse when the bishop be-because yt was so ordeined by all estates serueth not This libertie as hathe bene shewed is a peece off the liberties which Christ hath purchased vnto his churches by the sheddinge off his precious bloud wherin they owght to haue stood and which is no more lawfull for them to alienate or set ouer to others then to giue awaie the inheritance of the kingdome of heauen wherunto this is annexed Moreouer we speake off an electiō wherin consente is to be gyuen as ofte as the church is destitute off a minister and he off consente ones gyuen for euer We off an election which is passed by all the howsholders off euery church he off that vvhich vvas passed by a fewe burgeses in the vvhole realme We off a free election and he off an election wherin yt is by yowr leaue againste yowr will. Now the Papistes may clap their handes for againste all the argumentes that Maister
proue that As if I coulde no otherwise driue the bishopp from this sole election onles I coulde proue that the people can not erre in their electioÌ„ Or as if bishoppes elections were without danger off error so that he whiche will change them muste be driuen to seeke for suche electors as no error can take holde off And iff any barres were stronge enowghe to kepe yowr tonge from this vntrew dealinge my wordes which followe by and by after wherin I confesse the church maie erre had beene sufficient to restraine yt Againste my reasons here be bare wordes that the pastors are neuer the worse loued that are thruste vppon them I coulde haue as well as yow alledged the experience in other places if all men coulde haue seen yt and haue referred them to the manifolde fiâ—tes in lawe betwene the pastor and the people in our churches How often shall I tell him that the papistes are not the churche nor off the churche off Christe and therfore not to be suffred to haue to doo with the election off the minister this needed he not to haue asked if he had had his to be shorte which he repeteth so often in any commendation He asketh whether men allwaies continue in loue off those whom they haue chosen yt is easier to continew loue where loue is then bothe to fal into loue of him vvhom they coulde not awaie with and also to continew the course off that loue still And if the not seruinge off their affections breed hatered towardes him whom they loue yt will muche more make yt flame againste him againste whom yt was before kindled But still the A. imagineth off the churche as off dogges and which receiuinge meate at the hand off their pastor turne againe vpon him and reÌ„t him and not as sheepe vvhich heare the voice off their pastor And althowghe there be some hypocrites vhhich doo so yet all the church doth not so And therfore for their sakes and for the giuinge the deeper roote off loue in their hartes towardes the pastor yt is meete that this waie off free consente shoulde be taken As for the Hypocrites vvhen they shall ceasse to loue theyr pastors for rebukinge their faultes that shall be to the encrease of godes glorie Forsomuch as they are by so muche more inexcusable before God as they haue refused his admonition whom they them selues chose for that purpose And not that onely but the hatred conceiued off that dewtie off the minister shall be bridled and holden in rather by â—â—e remembrance off the iudgement vvhich he once in token off good will gaue off him For euen the earthely and naturall man hath this in him that whom he hath once loued hym if he hate afterwarde onles yt be for some thinge apparantly worthy off hatred he will be lothe to vtter it And althowghe for that his maners please him not he can not loue him yet leste he shoulde appeare inconstante and deceiued in his choise he will pretende to loue him still So that the consente off the churche in the election of the ministerie beinge profitable vnto the godlie and those vvhich are trewe sheepe that their loue maie abounde towardes their minister and in respecte off the Hypocrites and goates that they maie be more inexcusable before God and lesse hurtefull to men thes reasons stand still vntouched off the A. Yt is an easye thinge for M. D. Which neither proueth nor improueth any thinge by scripture to aske by what scripture proue that if the parishe choose an vnfitt minister the ministers and elders of the churches should aduertise c. The scripture I proue yt by ys that Saint Paule when he teacheth that all the faithfull are members off one misticall body off Christe which owghte to haue a mutuall care one off an other laide the foundations off this politie for as in the bodie off one particular church euery faithfull man coÌ„pared with an other in the same is a member one off a nother so in a more generall bodie off a whole Realme euerie particular churche coÌ„pared with other is likewise member of them therfore as nature teacheth my hande to helpe the disorder which is in another parte of my bodie so the spirite of God owte of his worde throwghe a fellow feelinge teachetche one churche to stretche owte her hande to put a waie as yt can the euill vvhich yt seethe approche vnto another And therfore when the scripture willeth that one shoulde admonishe another it is not onely a commaundement to euery singular man towardes his fellow but also to one whole companie towardes another societie And off this care extended so farr that one churche hath sente to admonishe another wee haue example in the epistle to the Corinthes where the Macedonian churches sente their embassadors with Saincte Paules Epistle bothe to moue the Corinthians to liberalitie towardes the poore and to receiue that vvhich vvas giuen by the churche vnto their vse And this maie serue to proue that one churche owght to admonishe a nother and therfore also those which are nexte as those which are fitteste for that pourpose That from the admonitioÌ„ off the churches yt is meete to come to synodes if the iudgemeÌ„t off the churches be contemned maie beshewed by proportioÌ„ from the place of our Sauiour Christe in Saint Mathew For as when one brother is not moued with the admonition of two or three the matter muste be referred vnto the churche to see vvhether the maiestie of it will moue him whom the authoritie off twoo or three woulde not euen so it is meete that the church that maketh lighte off the iudgement off twoo or three churches shoulde be pressed vvith the iudgementes off the diocese or prouince as shall be in that behalffe aduised And if I were in this poincte destitute off the worde off God yet the naked examples off the reformed churches owght to weighe downe a popish custome And that the magistrate owghte to laie to his hande iff the admonitions take not place it is manifeste by the reason which is alledged I haue looked maister Zuinglius Ecclesiast ouer and ouer againe The summe wheroff is that none shoulde take vpon hym any ministerie which is not called of some churche aÌ„d of the ministers nere abowte contrarie to the practise off the anabaptistes which entred into all churches and sometime put the pastor beside the pulpet from vvhich vvhether yow or vve be further let the reader iudge Where yow saie that I forgett my selffe which suppose now the churche maie err that said before yt was spirituall and iudgeth all thinges if yow coulde forget this vntrue dealinge I remembred my selfe well enowghe Thes cauilles which come so often without any colour off trewth are vtterly vnworthy off answer but as I haue saide in another place require rather a censor then a disputer Howbeit becawse there is nothinge so vnsauerie which some taste maie not be abused by I
the parable of the sower in the 13. of Sainct Mathew forsomuch as according to his saying for one in the church which heareth profitablie three doo the contrarie yt muste follow that euen in the persequuted churche there muste be thrise as manie euill as good Onles peraduenture he will saie that our S. Christe spake that off the estate off the church in time off the ciuill magistrate which was spoken off the whole estate off the churche vnto the worldes end and especially to that present churche which was vnder the crosse Ys it trewe vvhich yow heere affirme can yt not be otherwise in the time off persequution but that churche offices muste be chosen by common consent Howe cometh then to passe that yow denie the election Actes 1. and 14. to haue bene made with the consent off the churche How happeneth yt that yow affirme that Timothe and Titus off their owne authorities withowt the consente ether off eldershipp or people appoincted ministers vnto the churches in Ephesus and Creata that in Cyprians times which were times of persequution the electiō vvas made in some places vvithowt the people verily he had need be a verie kun̄ing ioiner which should set the◠together for the impossibilitie which yow imagine yt is not such but that if the commoditie of the churche and the institution off God had so suffred the churches woulde haue submitted them selues and their voices in their elections vnto the order of one And besides that christian humilitie and loue off aduancing the trwth for which they had forsaken all woulde haue let them to that submission there was Ecclesiasticall discipline to driue them vnto it Onles they woulde rather quittethe church which lightnes doothe not agree with the zeale which yow for yowr aduantage ascribe vnto a persequuted church HEere he denieth that he hath saide that the consent off the churche in the choise off the minister can not stand with the time off the Christian magistrate All the reasons vvhich he alledged are to proue that the election vnder a Christian magistrate can nor be safelye and conuenientlie committed vnto the churche and euē here he saith it is in thes times pernicious and hurtfull But that which can not be safely and cōueniently doone owghte not be doone muche les that vvhich is pernicious and hurtfull Therfore if yow thinke as yow speake yow think as I haue saide that the churches election can not stand with the time of A Christian magistrat And your salue wherwith yow woulde plaster yt that the ciuill magistrate maie ordeine so if he liste is nothing worth For if it be daungerous if yt be inconuenient as yow say to committe the election to the churche he owgte not althowge he woulde giue it into her handes Where yow conclude that yt was in powre off the ciuill magistrate to order that matter because the Emperours made lawes off the election which they woulde not haue doone yff yt had bene ordered by the worde off God yow are to farre wyde For wee reade that Aza made a lawe that who soeuer did not seeke the Lord should die And there are lawes made with vs that men shall heare the worde off God and receiue the sacramentes and yet thes thinges are commaunded of God and vnchangable nether is yt at the pleasure off any magistrate to order them otherwise Yf the reasons vvhich Musc bringeth for conformacion off the election off the churche can be answered then I will leaue them and followe his authoritie otherwise I accounte that althowghe he wrastel with it vvith his lefte hand yet he vpholdeth yt with his righte T. C. concealed nothing subtilely in leauing owt that the ministers ovvght to be blameles he lefte owte that which made nothing ether for or againste the pourpose If the A. had considered what I proue owt of this place ether he should haue omitted this or spoken yt againste his consciēce For I propounded onelye that the election off the churche was both in the times of the Christiā magistrate and cōfirmed by them and the D. can not denie but this place proueth that fully whether it be according to the doctrine of the Apostles or no I shewed before Therfore this disputation is with your selfe and with nothing which I set downe And if I had so set it downe whether the decree off the Emperour would haue borne yt owt considering that the sentence which I lefte owghte to be shut in a parenthesis I leaue yt vnto the iudgement of the reader As for the reasons vvhich are vsed for that pourpose the one that he would haue said decre◠and not wee decree is answered before Thother of propounding three owt of which one should be knowen not practised at any tyme by the Apostles is not sufficient to proue that the Emperour did not set before him their example seing that in the principall poinctes and causes off the election amongest which the chusers are the efficient he kepte him selffe vnto the election of the Apostles Yea if it be well considered yt shall be easely perceiued that he stucke too curiously and precisely vnto the election Actes 1. whilest as there were two sett vp of which one should be taken so in a grater multitude he would haue three out of which he would drawe one And althowgh the imitacion of the doctrine off the Apostles were onely as yow would haue yt that the moste pure should be taken yet yow can not denie but the Emperour tooke this to be the best way to haue most incorrupt ministers that the election should be made by the inhabitantes off the citie Howbeit because I propounded onely to proue that elections by the church haue bene confirmed by Emperours I will not striue with him in this point because I will stop vp the holes as muche as may be wherat he breaketh owt alwaies from that which is in question Yt were an euill interpretation to expound the inhabitantes off the cytie the cheife off the citie especially considering that the decree of other Emperours vvhich followed ordeined that the minister should be chosen by all the people And considering that the Nouelles in latin are corrupte in many places yt is vnreasonable to expound the Code and other lawes by them especially with such open violence And yt may be that the translator in steed off the heades of families put the heades off the citie but for this also I will not striue What ether against my cause or for yowres conclude yow off that the Metropolitan ordeined one off the three which were chosen after that sort Likewise what gaine yow if which is vntrue or very doutefull as that which hath autoritie off bothe sides a man should accord yow that Charles the great was Emperour of the French and not off the Duch Thes are nothing but baites to draw from the cause which yow would so faine shifte yowr handes of The shelter also yow seke in those wordes according to the canons off that
diocese will not holde owt the whether For although it might be therby gathered that there vvere seuerall Ceremonies in the elections off the dioceses yet it is plaine by his wordes that the elections vvere throvvgh ovvt made by the church vvhich is that vve desire Because yow busie yowr selfe so much to proue that this was not decreed by autoritie of the vvord of God althowgh yt be not that vvhich I tooke in hand to proue yet the wordes off that decree proue yt fully And albeyt he saied not according to the rules of the Apostles yet he saith that in effect For in saing that the church should vse that election in the name and authoritie off god what is yt els but that god hath so ordeined And in that he calleth yt the honor of the church which he giueth not him selfe but assenteth vnto he declareth yt incident to the church And what a reason is this Thēperour for bad that any man shoulde spoile the churches of their elections therfore it was in the Emperours powre to take awaie the election from the churches Which is in this diuision for feare of forgetting fowre times repeted ād vnworthy once to be cōfuted as I haue before declared And as that which the A. alledgeth off the rest of the decree maketh nothing to proue that the electiō off the church is in the Emperours powre so that which im̄ediatly foloweth vvhich he hydeth in c. doth manifestly proue that he helde yt for grounded of the vvord off God that the churches should haue the election off their mynisters For he addeth Because vve haue bene tavvght by the holie fathers that this thing that is to saie the taking awaie off the election from the church as the D. himselfe expoundeth yt is most greuous synne If therfore it be greuous synne to spoile the church of this honor and synne is defined the breach of the law off god yt followeth that the Emperour toke yt for a lawe of God that the church should chuse her minister And if I had bene bente vppon that poincte I could haue cited diuers testimonies which Illyricus vseth wherby this off the vnchangeable necessitie off the election by the church is confirmed As that Leo the firste affirmeth that no reason suffereth that he should be bishop vvhich is not chosen by the people alledged and pressed against the Papistes off Maister Caluin to the same pourpose Which place how violently and vnfaithfully yt is wrested off the D. in the end of this treatise shall be considered Also that he alledgeth off Leo the fourth and Celestine which confirmed the same ordinance vvith this testimonie it is not conuenient and yt is againste reason yt should be othervvise Likewise owt off the epistles off the Archbishop off Reines in Fraunce vvho diuers times vseth this saying he ovvght to be chosen of all vvhom all must gyue obedience vnto Last off all a whole treatise owt of the second booke of Cusanus vvhich proueth of diuers places out off the scripture Cyprian and canon Lawe that yt is no constitution off men but the lawe off God that the minister should be chosen off the church and that vvhosoeuer doth not enter into the church by that means entreth not in by the doore but is a these and a murtherer Thes I would haue browght at large if I had not contented my selfe with proofes owt of the scripture for the necessitie off yt which I here haue shortly set downe because I see the D. more afraied off the iudgemēt off the auncient church then of the scripture so that althowgh yt be a slender buckler to shild him selfe that the constitutions in that behalfe make no mention off any grownd owt off the word of god wheras he should rather haue shewed that they protested in their lawes off the indifferencie againste the necessitie off it yet euen that buckler also is by diuers Testymonies taken from him Yt is a poore falsifying off Platina vvhich is nothing but change of one worde for another without any gaine at al. For the Emperours cōmendacion serueth me as well to proue that the election of the church was alowed of and confirmed of the ciuill magistrate as if he had commaunded yt The second place off Platina proueth nothing les then that it was in the Emperours powre to change the election seinge that he nether made nor altered any forme off Election but onely off two Elections by the people mainteined that vvhich vvas lawfull Seinge also Platina supposeth no right off makinge the election in the Emperour but by the resignation off the Bishopp if that place proue any thing or thother after alledged owte off Bale and Barnes they proue that yt was in the Bishoppes hande to order yt at his pleasure Which howe vntrwe yt ys maie be considered off that vvhich hath bene before spoken againste the sole election off the Bishopp and off that vvhich is here confessed that the Bishopp of Rome began to vsurpe that which belonged not vnto hym For iff he encroched vppon the Emperours right no meruaile althowgh he brake in vppon the possession off the church Where he saith yt is to be noted that the libertie for the people to chuse was graunted by Charles the greate note also tha◠that note is worth nothing For where he would haue yt seeme that he was the firste that gaue that libertie he is confuted manifestly by the wordes off Charles a litle before alledged vvho speaketh of that election as of a thing accustomed of ould and doth not make any newe lawe therof but gyueth his assent vnto those which vvere made The vvordes yow ascribe to me that the electiō perteineth not to the Emperour I haue not I kepte the very wordes of Platina and nether added nor tooke awaie from them Where yow vvould seme to confirme owt of Platina in the life of Iohn the 13. by the worde creating that the Emperour chose Leo yt is but an abusing of the reader For Platina in the next chapter sauing one vvhere he speaketh of Leos election declareth that that creation vvas nothing els but a confirmacion of the election made by the people and clergie Therfore I saide the Emperours permitted the elections vnto the churches because by powre and violence they might haue taken them from them vvherfore yt followethe not that he mighte withowt breache off Gods lawe take them from the churche When yt is saide in the stories that the Emperous permitted vnto the churches the exercise off their religion maie yt therby be concluded that it was at their pleasure to haue without offence of God restrained them of that libertie verely I am ashamed to confute vvhich the D. is not ashamed to obiecte Yet the testimonies alledged make no mention of this word permission wherby this aduantage yf yt vvere anie should betaken Yow might easelie haue forgiuen me this fault where the iniurie which I doo is a gainst my selfe For where I might
constrained by corruption off tymes maie departe from the Apostolicall election shuttinge owt the people but I denie that that is warranted by substantial argumentes Beside I haue shewed that heere in wordes against vs in his reasons he stādeth for vs Which shall beste be vnsterstanded in that the D. being not hable to lyfte the whole hath mangled them and snatched here and there a worde if peraduenture vntwisted he might deale with them which otherwise he coulde not breake For where I cited owt off Musculus that yt is a boundage vnto the church to haue their minister thruste vppon yt vvithovvt choise off the people he answereth that subiection to magistrates is no bondage wherin he toucheth nether heauen nor earth For he should haue answered as vnto Musculus and not as vnto me considering that I alledged that owt off him off vvhome he hath taken all his reasons And therfore the note off Anabaptisme which he markethe all those vvith that saie yt is bondage vnto the churche to haue their pastor thrust vppon them lighteth vppon Musculus vvhich thus speaketh and affirmeth yt constantly Then his answer is abegging off that in question when he saith that subiection in lawfull matters is no bondage yt being in question vvhether yt be lawfull for the magistrate to take awaie the election from the church To that also owt of Musculus that the minister chosen by the church maie rule vvith a good cōscience and the people obey vnto him easelier then vvhen he cometh in againste their will and thervppon concluded that forasmuche as that manner of election is to be followed vvhich maketh moste to assure the mynisters cōscience of his calling and that the people should be more obedient vnto his doctrine therfore that onely vvas to be holden his answer is that he maie be assured otherwise and that the people otherwise will obey which if yt were true as yt is not is not sufficient for that he is not so easelie assured nor they so easely obey And vvhere as he saith that he which is assured off an inward calling need not to doubte of his owtward yow should vnderstand that the assurāce of the inward calling depēdeth a great parte of the owtward for allbeyt the sprite of God worketh that assurance yet he worketh by the owtward means of the iudgemēt of the elders ād off the church touching his aptnes for the ministrie whileste he considereth that that calling is not the calling off men but off God throwgh the ministerie of men Nether is there any one excepe those vvhich are called extraordinaryly vvhich can haue assurance off any inward calling but by the means off owtwarde For if he were assured that God had called him without the calling off men he owght to obey his voice althowgh men would not call him So that this not distinction but seperation off the knowledge off an inward calling from the owtward is not onely absurde but confirmeth the Anabaptistes which boste off an inward calling where no calling off the church wente before That he addeth yf yt be according to the forme of that church where he is called is but a begging off the question For it being in question whether euery calling that any church vseth be lawfull and seing the minister can not be assured off his owtward calling oneles yt be lawfull it followeth that he vvhich presumeth one must needes presume the other Vppon Musculus saying that the thrustinge off the minister vppon the church vvithout her election dravveth bondage c. and the D affirming that suche elections are meet for the church vnder the christian Magistrate I concluded that therby great iniurie was doone to the Christian Magistrate giuen off God not onely to preserue but to encrease the churches libertie To all vvhich firste the D. answereth that he giueth nothing to the magistrate but which belongeth vnto him and that yt is the magistrates right to vse that kinde of appoincting off ministers which he thincketh good which is a grosse begging off that in controuersie Secondly he saith that the pastors had neuer better cause to obey their pastors neuer les cause to complaine off bondage and cōstraint then nowe when the pastors are chosen without the consente off the churches which as it is barely saied hath no reason to leane vppon is confuted by common sense so it is directly contrarie to that Musculus his author affirmeth in the wordes before alledged Onely for the matter off libertie he alledgeth that the true libertie of the church consisteth in libertie of cōscience and freedome from false doctrine wherunto I answer that it consisteth in them but not onely for to vse assemblies for the ministring of the worde and Sacramētes c. is a libertie of the church And they are not myne but Musc wordes which calleth the election by the church a libertie and the other a bondage of the church I imagine not the corrupt estate to be in the lawes and goūernment off the Christian magistrate but contrariwise giue that vertue to his godly gouernment that the estate off religion maie be easelie pure with him vvhich can be hardly or not without great daunger pure without him Yow if not in wordes yet in deede make the gouernment off the christian magistrate alwaies fraught with dronkardes Idolaters whoremōgers Atheistes c. which was not so before he entred which is nothing els then to make him Lorde of misrule and in steed of a noursing father a fosterer of synne which is the iniurie I complaine off Where yow saie that it is commendation vnto the magistrate to correcte such disordered persons yow saie well but smally to the pourpose smally to your aduantage For if the church hath by benefite of the Christian magistrat besides her owne censures his helpe off ciuill punishmentes for repressing synne she hauing better meanes to weed oute the wicked thē be fore maie be more easely discharged of those vnprofitable burdens I haue not therfore trāsferred the faultes off men vnto the gouernement but yow haue laied to my charge that which your felfe faulte in and I before confuted The forme off election in the Apostles tyme is not chaunged by the magistrates confirmacion For beside that that is properly no parte off the election but a thing vvhich followeth yt this right off confirmacion of elections was in the Apostles times And althoughe the practise was not generall yet there being euen in in their times some Christian magistrates as appeareth by that which hath bene spoken there can be small doubte but this forme off election had in certeine places euen during the Apostles times his approbation If it had not yet the forme theroff is no more changed therby then the forme of preaching and administring the Sacramentes when the magistrate did not allowe of them differeth from that which is nowe when he mainteineth them so appeareth that the magistrates cōfirmatiō standeth without breache of the Apostical forme of electiō which he denieth Thes
that he hath taught that Sainct Paule commaundeth that they and in them all bishoppes shoulde onely chuse Wherby are condemned all election by the church as those which haue intruded vppon the bishoppes possession Where he saith that the Adm. dothe coulorably affirme by thes wordes thautoritie is gyuen to the bishopp alone c. that the right off orderinge ministers doth at no hand apperteine vnto the bishopp I would knowe what word there is heere where this coulor is to bee seene aÌ„d what light he is able to giue vs to make yt appeare The other sentence wherwith he woulde proue yt followeth after nether was he come vnto yt Yf he did therfore confute that it is as straunge as iff a man shoulde shutte off and spende his arrowes or euer he come within the reach off his enemie And I thinke there is no example off suche confutation onles he had coupled that place with this and comparinge them together sett vpon them both at ones beside that it is Absurde that where the Adm. heere spake off the election he answereth off admission Here cometh to be considered the A. dealinge in the end off the booke where charged with vnfaithfullnes for that as in this place he would haue in synuated that the Adm. would haue the people chuse onely to proue hym selfe giltles he alledgeth a place of the Adm. wherin yt is said Then the election vvas made by commen consent off the vvhole church To this answer I repâ—lied that it was his ouersight that he tooke the people which is but a parte of the church to be al one with the church which is the whole coÌ„teininge as well gouernours of the church as the people in which replie the D. crieth owte off manifest falsification Why so forsooth because I lefte owte this worde whole that is to saie because I spared hym and kepte backe a peece of his folie and that with disaduantage off that which I pretended to proue For the word church simply set downe doth comprehended as well the gouernours as the people howe much more doth it comprehend them when this worde whole is added And if it were falsely concluded off him against the Adm. that they would haue the ministers to be called allowed and placed off the people because they saide that the election was made by commen consent off the church how much more is yt falsely concluded of thes wordes off the Adm. the election vvas made by consente off the vvhole church Thus appeareth that the D. together with his diuinitie seemeth to haue loste his commen sense yt is time therfore to carie him owte off the schole to some other place iff peraduenture by some sharper discipline he might gather vpp him selfe againe In the same place also vpoÌ„ that I shewed that in proper speach the church and people differed hauing there declared that difference to be in that the church is the whole and the people a parte theroff â–ª this complainer off falsificatioÌ„ saithe that I seeme to seperate the people from the election of the ministers for that I will not haue the worde church in the Adm. comprehend the people which is manifestly againste that I set downe For I precisely reprehended hym for that vppon the worde church vsed off the Admon he woulde haue mainteined his false insinuation againste them that the election should perteine to the people onely consideringe that the word church cited off him was the vvhole and the people one parte and necessarily comprehended vnder it This is not onely falsifyinge but flat facynge Nowe to retourne backe I aske what he needed twife in this diuision in so many and greuous wordes complaine off corrupte dealinge seinge him selfe flatly affirmeth asmuch as I saie of him and otherwise caÌ„ not mainteine his cause The truth is that he absteined then from the wordes electinge and onely bycause he sawe he had nothinge to mainteine them which nowe by my replie he was driuen to put downe or els to forsake his cawse Wherin as he dissenteth from the trwth so he is driuen to haue a newe combat with him selfe in that he heere maketh yt indifferent and at the discretion of the church in tyme of persequution to make elections ether by one or by the multitude which is contrary to that he hath before in thes wordes Lastly in time of persequution when they haue no magistrate they be all equall nether is one bound to obey another by any ciuill lawe none hath cheiff and especiall care ouer the reste as magistrate to compell wherfore yt can not be otherwise then but that such offices should be chosen by common consente Where he alledgeth Zuing. and Bull. owt of place and contrary to the title of his chap. to proue the callinge of certeine by one Apostle because they be Euangelistes vvhich wee haue no vse off and for that I haue shewed that they both are clearly of this Iudgement that the minister owght to be chosen with consent off the church I will not much busie my selfe with this matter But althowgh the Apostles did send thes Euangelistes off their Embassages to knowe howe the churches did and such lyke thinges as required no tariance nor execution off any set ministrie in the churches wherunto they where sent yet that they euer set them to rule any congregation by their priuate autoritie is not to be estemed wheroff this is an apparant reason that Timothe was not set ouer the church off Ephesus by Saint Paule onely seinge that Paule confesseth that he receiued imposition off handes by the eldership Thother also here mentioned beinge Euangelistes it is like the order vsed in one was in thother Nether doo the wordes I lefte the at Creta proue it for he doth not saie that he ordeined him and if he had yet it muste be vnderstanded that he did ordeine him as he had doone in other churches with consente off the church And that this is not my iudgement yt maie appeare by that I haue alledged owt off Caluine and Musculus in the former booke aÌ„d Bez. in this nether could Bull. be thought to haue here such meaniÌ„g as the D. giueth him that the Apostles alone should sett ouer the churches ministers as appeareth by that I haue alledged So that onles he will make Bullinger contrary vnto him selffe thes wordes that Paule and Peter called certeine can not be vnderstanded off placinge them ouer any congregation no further then being cheife in that action they directed the iudgemeÌ„t of the churches there remaineth zuinglius which I meruaile the D. will charge me with seinge he himselffe will not stande to him in the place which he hath alledged For that which he hath lefte owt off Mathias chosen by the vvhole church is directly againste that which he hath in diuers places before affirmed After many vaine wordes againste the replie vnto the places off Timothe as that it is against thauthoritie off learned writers against the whole course off
conceiued off an opinion they had that those tvvo vvere not vvorthy to rule ouer them The vvordes off our Sauiour Christ in the 20. of S. Math. c. are spoken vnto the 12. onely vvhom he had set apart for the ministerie off the gospell but his vvordes S. Math. 23. are spoken not onely vnto them but vnto the commen people Wheruppon it followeth that our Sauiour ioining the people vvith his disciples in the dehortations vvhich he maketh here could not as in the other place vvhere he speaketh vnto them alone speake off the proper listes and boundes of the ministerie and therfore there is no cause vvhy M. shoulde be glad that I agree with hym in the exposition off Math. 23. Further Math. 20. making comparison betwene the 12. disciples and Princes here so far as towcheth the disciples he maketh comparison betwene them and other ecclesiasticall ministers There being therfore thinges in the state off a commendable Prince vvhich agree not vnto the ministery of the gospell it followeth that he may be well thowght there not onely to haue forbidden the disciples ambition damnable in bothe estates but also those thinges which being commendable in Princes agree not vnto them Off the other side all thinges coÌ„mendable in the Pharises ministrie Ecclesiasticall agreing likewise to theirs it followeth of necessitie that there he must needes speake against ambition onely Vnto the next diuis being reproches I answer not onely vvhere he chargeth me vvith falsehood becawse I affirme he saith the booke off commen praier is a perfect rule to gouerne the churche off England by where nothing is wanting or to much I answer that there be not the same wordes but when there is nothing he will acknowledge to be off the order of the booke which he mainteineth not and refuseth to haue added thinges vvhich haue their ground off the word I leaue to the reader to iudge whether although my wordes are vvith the fullest yet I am far from his meaning Now I returne againe to his 8 Tract The Ans skoffing vppon my vnskilfulnes in logicke saith he can finde nether head nor foot in my reason Thus I will finde both They which deny the lawfulnes of Iohns ministrie because there was no suche ministerie conteined in the scriptures thowght no ministerie lawfull not conteined in them but the Scribes and Leuites did so therfore they esteemed no ministerie lawfull not conteined in scripture Against this he taketh exception first to the translation which is altogether friuolus for beside that both the wordes may beare that signikication and it is not vnlike but by the article the Euangelist ment not some one singular Prophet spoken of in the law beside the Messias but rather any Prophet extraordinary to vvhom the Lord shewed him self ether by vision or dreame the interpretation vvhich he citeth owt of Beza altereth not the argument but rather strenghtheneth it noting therby that it vvas necessary not onely to haue the function off a Prophet but off one which vvas especially noted and marked owt by the scripture SecoÌ„dly where he saith that if they had asked Iohn whether he had bene a Prophet he would not haue denied it and addeth for proofe theroff our Sauiour Christ saied he was one he is abused for our Sauiour saying that he vvas greater then a prophet and that the Prophetes endured vntill Iohns comming denieth that he vvas a Prophet and maketh his ministerie a meane function betwene the function of a Prophet and ministerie off the gospell more excellent then the first and inferior to the other If he vvould haue had a coulor off his defense he should rather haue cited his fathers saying of him which calleth him the Prophet of the highest but that could not haue serued the turne nether For that the vvorde is there taken generally for those which teach the will off God which is often as hath bene shewed Yowr third exception that all the functions are not reckened vpp becawse they aske him not whether he was a Priest or Leuite is as vaine as the rest for therfore they aske him not becawse he tawght not being consecrated vnto any of them according to the ecclesiasticall order prouided in that behalf and that vvas one occasion off this embassadge vnto Iohn Last off all where in the margent he saith that the Pharises made false argumentes and that I doo the same he speaketh vnaduisedly for howsoeuer there was otherwise great ignorance in them yet that their reason vvas good herin it appeareth by that S. Iohn to proue his ministerie lawfull browght testimonie theroff owt off the scripture and for that our Sauiour Christ meaning to confirme the ministerie off Iohn asketh whether it were from heauen or off men In vvhich wordes condemning all ministeries vvhich men institute and that come not from heauen he confirmeth the Parises argument vvhich vvas that Iohn exercising a mynisterie not ordeined by the law should haue bene gilty of breach of the law if he could not haue shewed some extraordinarie vocatioÌ„ Thus appeareth that there vvas both bead and foot in this argumeÌ„t and that by all likelyhood true vvhich he could not impugne but by vntruth The 8. and 9. diuis vvhich follow haue as commonly the rest nothing but bare sayinges which becawse I shall meet withall againe I vvill heere passe ouer â–ª onely in the eight yt ys to be noted that he saith it is seruile to tie the church off Christ to the patrone off the Iewes Synagoge Wherin ether he saith nothing or he would haue vnderstanded more then he dare veter For if he meane that the church of Christ may not be in all ordinances and ceremonies coÌ„formable to that off the Iewes it maketh nothing to the pourpose but if he meane that the church hath now more libertie in adding ministeries then the Iewes had as his answer to that I set downe doth require then I see no cawse vvhy he should not haue so saied But that although he would say yet he durst not and therfore spaâ—â— thus vncertenly that vvheÌ„ I should shew the coÌ„trary he in this generall speach might haue some corner to hide him in Seing I must needes proue that the crow is blacke that is to say tharchbishoprick a new ministerie thus yt is proued That which hath diuers efficient cawses is an other and diuers but there are diuers efficient cawses off the ministerie off tharchbishop and those expressed in the word off god That there are diuers efficient cawses is manifest for that the office off Bishop Elder and Deacon being by God him self the office off tharchbishop was deuised and browght in by man And although this be proof enough to them that haue their senses exercised in the holy scripture where in the ministerie oftentimes they are called straungers which haue not their offices limited by the prescript off Gods word yet that it may appeare how litle modestie there is in this strong deniall
I will ad others Wheras a Bishop may be ordeined by two or three other Bishops tharchbishop must be ordeined by all the Bishops off the prouince ether present or at the least consenting Now seing the ordination is off the forme off their ministerie and thes formall causes be diuers yt followeth that thes offices must needes be diuers And that the substantiall and essentiall forme of a Bishop is differente from that off tharchbishop yt is plaine also by that they are members off one diuision and therfore off necessitie differ in the substantiall forme as a man differeth from a brute beast not in circumstance but in that he is off an other nature And when the D. graunteth the effectes and worckes off tharchbishop to be diuers from those off the Bishop the one ruling thother obeing and that by oth gyuen and taken it seemeth very straunge that he should deny that it is a new and diuers office from those appointed in the scripture Furthermore when as the subiectes off the Bishop and Archbishop be diuers where about they be occupied the one hauing one church or to speake according to his sense one Diocese thother a whole prouince still it must fall owt that they are diuers offices Last off all forasmuch as offices in the scripture are perpetuall and thoffice off an Archbishop may be taken away by men by his owne confession yt must follow that they be diuers offices And if he looke when I should conclude a new minisâ—â—â—e beside that yt is all new which is straunge and straunge which is not coÌ„maunded by the word of God yt comming as shall appeare some hundreth yeares after the Apostles times whose onely autoritie is able to make the grey heares and antiquitie of a thing be reuereÌ„ced it followeth that this word new if he nourish any misterie in it is also truly verified of the ministerie of tharchbishop Timothe and Tite shall neuer be proued to haue had any such autoritie ouer the rest and if they had yet yt falleth not on tharchbishops side seing they were no Bishops but Euangelistes as hath appeared When the church appointed one Bishop to rule ouer all Ministers Elders and Deacons in the same church yt did appoint a new ministerie and all thes reasons almost before browght against the newnes off tharchbishops functions returne vpon the head of that institution And if there be any hould in the Ans word he hath otherwhere affirmed that thoffice off a Bishop is superior vnto the office off a Pastor yf so it is not the same But why dare not the D. aswell confesse that the church may erect a new mynisterie seing he affirmeth flatly as much in effect for to proue an Archbishop he alledgeth that beside those in the scripture the church may appoint both names and offices now I would gladly know first whether when the church appointeth an office that was neuer before a new office or no and then whether a new office be a new mynysterye And yff to erect vpp an office which was neuer be to erect a new office and a new office be a new mynysterie it must follow that the churche in erecting an other office then is set forth in scripture erecteth a new ministerie The Ans is afraied to confesse a new ministerie and not afraied to confesse a new office off which superstition I would gladly vnderstand some reason Now where he would haue the care off our Sauiour ouer his church in time off the gospel to consist in that he hath set downe the doctrine more plainly in all poinctes then vnder the law this being a doctrine off saluacion vnder the law that there should be ministers in the church yt followeth by his owne saying that he hath set yt downe more plainly in all pointes now then vnder the law Therfore also this point how many orders and degrees off ministerie owght to be considering that that was precisely defined in the law is more narrowly bounded in the gospel Thus he defending more in deed then in wordes he dare set downe is almost at continuall battaile with himself and hath scarce at any tyme his proofes and propositions of one measure But that I follow not the chase off wordes leauing his meaning where 〈◊〉 any light footing of it to be found that which he would say and wherwith his pourpose is vpholden can not stand that albeit our Sauiour hath tawght the doctrine more plainly now then vnder the lawe yet it followeth not that he hath performed that in the gouernement off the church If this be his meaning as I saied there is great iniurie doon vnto the church great dishonor vnto our Sauiour Christ For he hauing at all tymes doon the office not onely off a Doctor in teaching but also off a king in prescribing the manner and forme off gouernement vnto yt howmuch soeuer he is saied to haue doon lesse in appointing the outward gouernement off his church now then vnder the law so muche is both he robbed off that part off his kingly office which God his heauenly Father annointed hym vnto and the church spoiled of the fruict which should come vnto her therby Yt ys therfore a most certein doctrine that in all thinges perteining to the kingdom of heauen whether in matter off doctrine or gouernment the Lord hath in as great specialtie marcked them owt as ether before or vnder the law In cyuill matters and thinges perteining to this present life he hath I graunt vsed a greater particularytie with them then amongest vs framing lawes according to the qualitie of that people and coontrey wherin the leauing of vs at greater libertie ys so far from prouing the like libertie in thinges perteining to the kingdom off heauen that they rather proue a streighter bond For euen as when the Lord would haue his fauour more appeare by temporall blessinges off this life towardes the people vnder the law then towardes vs he gaue also polityke lawes most exactly wherby they might both most easely come into and most stedfastly remaine in possessyon off those earthly benfites euen so at this tyme wherin he would not haue his fauour so much esteemed by those owtward commodities is required that as his care in prescribing lawes for that pourpose hath somewhat fallen in leauing them to mennes coÌ„sultations which may be deceiued so his care for conduit and gouernement of the life to come should if it were possible rise in leauing lesse to the order off men then in times past And the D. should ether haue cut off quite that part off the Kingly office off Christ which consisteth in owtward gouernement off his church or els haue let yt had the full course Now when he graunteth that beside the doctrine off saluacion he entred into the description off outward gouernement off the church saying beside the doctrine he ordeined there should be not onely fit ministers to publish it but officers to gouerne the people in godlines as if in beginning
off that description he declared his care ouer his church and not â—â— making an end off it he signifieth that he declared lesse care For if to describe the three offices of gouernemeÌ„t Bishop Deacon and Elder were an argument off his loue and care towardes his church had not also the adding to off the fourth yf any were bene a token off the same But if as the Ans would make vs belieue the Lord declared his great care and loue more towardes his church in leauing that office at her arbitrement then yt should also follow that in appointing no more but the Deacon and Elder which gouerneth onely yea in appointing no officer at all he should haue shewed him self more carefull and louing Which if yt be absurd that he saith wherof this followeth is not to be admitted Againe wheras he graunteth that our Sauiour Christ hath gone throwgh with the doctrine I would ask off him why in that point he hath made so cleane worck Whatsoeuer he answer here and what cawses soeuer he assigne he can not deny but one cawse is the blindnes of men to see and their peruersnes of iudgement in thinges perteining to the kingdom off heauen Which if it be true then I would gladly know off him how they come to be so egleeyed in the matter off discipline and gouernemeÌ„t which are such bussardes in the sight off the doctrine and how their eyes be opened here which were shut there As if we were in lesse perill off error in inuenting the Discipline off the church then we should haue bene in deuising the doctrine or as thowgh it were an easier matter to finde a rule wherby the whole church ioyntly then wherby euery one in his seuerall might be directed And if part of this gouernemeÌ„t and order being propounded part also is left owt why rather were not the greater offices and off more weight expressed leauing the smaller to the stamp off mans head for who knoweth not but it is harder to institute a ministerie for the gouernement off a whole prouince then for a companie coÌ„prised within the territoire of a furlong to institute a ministerie for gouernment and commandement of both people and Bishops too then for the people onely So that off the twoo vertues required in all sufficient dispensation faithfulnes and wisdome and which were both most fully in our S. Christ by the Ans account there was nether For in that he is made to haue described some part off the gouernement and not all he is argued of vnfaithfulnes in that he is made to haue propounded the les and easier leauing owt greater and more difficult his wisdome is reproched Nether may the D. thinck here to escape with the distinction off externall thinges variable by circumstances which els where he alledgeth For first I haue shewed that yt is most vntrue that all externall thinges be variable TheÌ„ he must remeÌ„ber that he making his Archbishops office to begin in the Apostles tymes hath drawen owt his continuance vnto this tyme all which he hath as he yet doth accounted off him as a head piller of the church off god Now if he be such a profitable officer both in the purest tyme off the church and the corrupt both in persequution and peace vnder a Christian Magistrate and vnder a TyraÌ„t yt is cleare that this ys an office not variable by circumstance off times but which our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles might haue aswell established in perpetuitie as he did any off those vnchangeable ministeries Bishops Deacons c. In calling yt a seruile tie to haue the whole gouernement at the prescript off Gods word he forgetteth that the greatest libertie and freedom off Christians is to serue the Lord according to his reuealed will and in all thinges to hang vppon his mouth But that he addeth yt ys to be tied vnto the lettre as in the law fyrst is Papisticall and Anabaptisticall proceeding from a grosse ouersight and want of vnderstanding off the Apostles meaning wheÌ„ he speaketh of the lettre of the law For wheras the Apostle setteth agaynst the lettre of the law that is to say the bare coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t doo this c. the worcking off the spirit gyuen by promesse wherby the law in part is obteined off vs and made healthfull which otherwise bringeth death the Answ with the Papistes and Anabaptistes opposeth the lettre vnto that not writteÌ„ nor commaunded in scripture When in that sense which he taketh lettre if there were any such we are as streightly and precisely bound vnto the lettre as euer were the Iewes The examples brought as exceptions against the certein and commaunded mynisterie are such for the most part as might seem to haue bene brought to set the D. cawse in the mockerie and lawghter of all men For yt is well knowen that the name off a Scribe was no name off any certein order and particular kinde off ministerie but a generall name gyuen vnto the skilfull in the law of god For although we read of some to whom yt ys gyuen which beside the ordinary function wrote something yet yt may be easely shewed that they had that name not off writing but rather becawse they were expert in the law off God written Which as yt may be proued by diuers autorities off the scripture so yt doth by the autoritie off our Sauiour Christ manifestly appeare And when our Sauiour speaking off the tymes of the gospell saith he will send Scribes and yet neuer heard tell off that there was any certein order or particular function off Scribes vnder the gospell yt ys cleare that vnder title off Scribe there was neuer vnderstanded any seuerall degree off ministerie The same is to be aswered vnto the name of Doctor of law that yt was a generall name where with they were named which were learned or taken for learned in the law of god Which may appeare for that whom S. Math. calleth a a lawier or Doctor of the law S. Marck calleth a Scribe To change the Capitain off the Temple into an Ecclesiasticall officer needeth a very strong exorcisme The Temple of Ierusalem being the strongest place in the whole citie and by reason off the height commaunding the whole cytie round about was by all likelihood taken of the Romans to be their fort or Cytadell Considering that Herod had also builded a fort there called Antonia where they placing their garrisons did the easelier and with greater securitie holde the Iewes in that bondage which they sought at euery occasion to shake off Herunto leade the prophane mindes of the Romans which beside the safetie they sowght that waies tooke pleasure also in prophaning the temple off the Lord ad also the practise off our daies which may serue for confirmacion herof But howsoeuer the matter be this appeareth plainly that that office was not ecclesiasticall but both a cyuill and warlike function For when S. Iohn beside the seruantes off the Scribes
the forbidding of the second mariadge off ministers before that councell Furthermore I would know what charter the Answ can shew that the firste 500. yeares within compas wherof he hathe browght his testimonies be iuste the time off the primitiue churche nether more nor lesse But thus muste he doo that hauing nothing els he might with this glorious title off the primitiuē churche dasell the eies off the simple Laste off all when he saithe there was no function browght into the churche the first 500. yeares alowed by generall councell or credible writer not meete for that time and alowable by the worde off God besides the grosse demaund off that in question I woulde know off him wherfore serued exorcistes when the gifte off casting forthe euill spirites was ceased what he will answer vnto Ieromes monkes Eremites Anchoristes Which were at that time very grosse what to the fower Patriarches or rather three Which by the generall Councell off Calcedon soone after 400. yeares had the gouernement off churches throwghe owte all the world whether he allowe of that famous robberie wherby the bishop off Rome Constantinople and Alexandria for the bishop of Ierusalem beside the name had scarce aplowgh lande in comparison off the rest parted the state off the whole inheritance off Christe And if it be true which he affirmed that the Councell of Calcedon offred the name vniuersall bishop vnto the bishop off Rome how will he mainteine that no generall Councell within 500. yeares alowed any office not agreable vnto the word of God and meet for those times Finally what will he say to that yt was as Iulius bishop of Rome saith decreed by the lawes off the churche and immediatly after the Nicene Councell that the Bishop off Rome must be called to the Synode and that it was voide which was doon there beside his sentence Thus yow may see that yowr selfe enemie to Antechrist throwghe your inordinate desire of making good that you haue once setdowne haue giuen him more grounde then he coulde euer by stronge hande off disputation conquer If there were no other difference betwene the times off the Apostels and those from whence the D. fetcheth his examples but this that then there vvas none so litle an error vvhich vvas not beaten dovvne as soone as euer yt peeped vp no infection being hable to laie holde off the cheif gouernours which in his times had possessed the beste off them that alone is sufficiente to shewe that examples may be safely fetched from the Apostels times which can not be withowt greate daunger drawne from his times But dothe not the D. see how greatly he is abused which compareth the heretikes off the Apostels times with the Catholikes off his their vtter falling away with the corruption of others Whereas if he woulde haue answered to that I set downe he shoulde haue compared Catholike gouernours with Catolike gouernours But he to lift vp the credite off his times and to make them equall or rather for the matter off gouernement superior vnto the Apostels compareth the rose of his with the thornes off the Apostels times the golde off those with the drosse off thes And althowghe yt be grosse answer yet as if one shoulde glorie in his shame in the nexte sextion he insulteth vppon me as thowghe he had answered very aptly and I had spoken in the ayer Wherupon I will leaue yt to the consideration off the reader whether he seeking to aduance his testimonies in those wordes hetherto Antechrist had not inuaded the churche off Rome and in thes approued off the best worthiest and eldest Councels fathers and writers and a litle after thes names were vsed in the purest times of the churche I haue to the pourpose shewed that those times were not pure nor virginlyke but that the churches were then muche departed from the singlenes vvherin the Apostels had lefte thē I leaue also to iudgement whether the answer I make in this behalfe be other then all those gyue which haue to doo with confutation of those popishe errors for the establishemēt of diuers wherof the Papistes vrge the same antiquitie which the D. now presseth vs with Clementes place which he can not finde is as I saide not far from the begin̄ing of the booke who after he had shewed that certeine receiued the doctrine immediatly at the Apostles handes to note how corruption entred interlaceth this prouerbe in a parenthesis fevv children are like their fathers And if it be grieuous for him with reading off two or three leaues to seeke yt he shall haue a shorter way for yt is repeated of Eusebius As for the nexte section wherin Socrates testimonie is wiped awaye by accusing him of the Nouatian heresie besides a proofe off the light esteme off autors which make againste him he gaineth nothing For there is nothing saide off Socrates which is not confirmed otherwise The bishop off Salisbury alledgeth somewhere owt of Origen off the whole estate off bishops which Socrates saide of thē of Rome and Alexandria that the bishops euen in his time and vnder the clogge off persequutiō seemed to passe the rage of wordly Princes And where he saith Socrates vniustly reproueth the bishop of Rome c. how vntrue that is may cuidnetly appeare for as much as the bishop whō Socrates speaketh of was Celestinus whō the Ans before saith to haue claimed superioritie off all churches and taken vpon him as yt were the name off vniuersall bishop Nether did that proude statelines of the Romishe Bishop which Socrates speakethe of beginne in Celestinus which banished the Nouatians but was in his predecessors Boniface Zosimus and Innocentius c. as may appeare by diuers monumentes of that time And Socrates doth not reproue them for that they were ennemies to the Nouatian heretikes but for that they tooke vpon them to exile them vvhich perteined not vnto the Bishop but vnto the magistrate Also it appeareth that Theodosius the Emperour had permitted the Nouatians to haue a churche there so that there was double fault in the Bishop which in steed that he should haue contented him self to preach that it was not meet to haue suche heretikes in the church tooke vpon him to put them owt both by strong hand and contrary to the Emperours permission And if Celestinus were suche as the D. hathe tolde vs then it is so farre that Socrates speaking off him as I haue alledged did it of euill will that he is rather to be be accused for to soft speache in suche a heinous faulte Where he saithe I haue falsified Socrates which for passing beyonde the limites of priestehood to an owtwarde dominion haue set downe leauing the sacred function were degenerate to a secular rule and dominion I leue yt to the iudgement of all indifferencie what cause he hathe to make suche an alarme for so small a matter when yt is plaine that how
but vpon gainsaying And in that Boniface which wrote vnto Zachary had appointed those three bishops in small parishes and townes all vnderstand that yt was no new thing then to haue bishops in such places But because he closethe his eyes and will not see thinges set before him at leaste let him grope them The false Damasus and verie Antichriste writing of this matter inueiethe vehemently againste the appointinge off Bishops in villages which he calleth countrey bishops And yt appeareth plainly in that Epistle that they had the selfe same autoritie in all thinges which citie Bishops had There he saith also that yt was forbidden that there shoulde be any bishop ether in small cytie or in village or Castell leste the name and autoritie of a bishop should waxe vile And therfore commaundeth that those bishops off villages being disgraded off their Bishoprickes shoulde be throwne downe to the order off preisthoode Heere the D. maie vnderstande that euen in the time off Antichriste this order off euerie churche hauing her bishop was not so abolished but that there were remnantes off it in diuers places and some which mainteined the libertie wherin God had sed them againste that owtrage off Satan who becawse he woulde make off bishops yong Princes and saw that euerie parishe was not hable to mainteine that pompe wente abowte with robberie off the reste to lifte vp the heade off one Heroff yt may be seene what cawse the D. hathe to charge me with the falsifiyng of the Popes wordes and how his habilite to defende the Popes decree doothe not answer his desire As for the reasons I browght to proue that the placingâ— off bishops in villages and small cyties coulde no more bringe them in contempte then the shininge of the sonne or falling off the raine in villages as vvell as in cyties breedeth contempte off those benefites or the name or autoritie of father gyuen to poore men as vvell as riche maketh that ordinance off God nothing set by he answereth not a worde Where I further alledged the foresight and wisdome of God which shoulde receiue a greate wound if in instituting for euery churche a Bishop he shoulde not haue foreseen this inconuenience which the Ans vppon the Popes autoritie meinteineth he askethe when and where I haue I truste shewed him now bothe althowghe he if he had ether vnderstoode or remembred what he wrote before twise or thrise when with Ierome he propoundeth vnto vs that Bishop and elder were all one by Gods worde he should not haue falleÌ„ into this extreme boldenes of denying euery thing which is enemie vnto his vnaduised assertions For yf yt be the institution off God that euerie churche shoulde haue a teaching elder and that elder according to Ieromes saying alowed off him were a bishop yt muste needes folowe that to haue a bishop in euerie churche ys the institution of god And because the D. boweth so casely vnder the autoritie of men that he estemeth it the beste proofe let him vnderstande that this was the iudgemeÌ„t off twoo of the moste famous meÌ„ which our lande browght forth thes manie yeares And the same also executed for the testimonie off the truth off god wheroff one of them amongest other thinges suffred also for this cause nowe in hande a The sixte Article which M. Barnes was condemned for is this I vvill neuer belieue nor can neuer belieue that one man maie by the lavve off God be bishop off tvvoo or three cyties yea off an vvhole contrey for that yt is contrary to the doctrine of S. Paul vvhich vvriting vnto Titus commaundeth that he should ordeine a bishop in euery tovvne prouing that by the worde elder the Apostell meaneth a bishop M. Hooper shewing that one man may not haue two lyuinges addeth but this is clavv me and I vvill clavv the. If the bishops permitted not their priestes to haue 2. benefices it may fortune the priestes vvould likevvise say the bishop should be bishop but of one citie And in deed so it should be and till magistrates bring theÌ„ to that point it shal he as possible to heare a bishop vvade godly and symply thorovvgh the scripture in all case off religioÌ„ as to driue a camell thorovvgh the eie of a nedle A great pitie it is to see hovv far the office off a bishop is degenerated from the originall in the scripture It vvas not so in the beginning vvhen bishops vvere at the best as the Epistle to Tite testifieth that vvilled him to ordeine in euerie citie of Crete a bishop And in case there vvere such loue in them novv as vvas then tovvardes the people they vvould say them selues there vvere more to doo for the best off them in one cytie then he could doo They knovv the primitiue church had no such bishops vntill the time off Siluester the first c. Off thes thinges partly and partly of that which shall be hereafter God willing spoken I leaue yt to be esteemed off the indifferente reader with how small ether knowledge or conscience the D. hathe affirmed that yt can nether be shewed by scripture nor confirmed by anie ecclesiasticall writer or practise off the primitiue churche that ether euery churche shoulde haue her bishop or that there should be bishops in villages and small Cyties Thother off the two questions remaineth whether yt can be shewed by scripture and by examples off the primatiue churche â–ª that there were in one churche moe bishops then one which we might in parte haue bene eased off if the answ hauing fallen owte with the trwth were not likewise falleÌ„ owte with him selfe For he approuing off the testimonie off Ierome which affirmeth elders and Bishops all one and that the elders off a churche chose one amoÌ„geste them which onely kepte the name of bishop dothe withall necessarily affirme that before the time that this ordinance was established there were diuers bishops in one church And in saying the word bishop is not commenly vsed but for him that in degree is aboue the rest he at vnawares confesseth that there were diuers bishops in some churches althowgh not commenly But becawse he hath a facultie in denying and affirming withowte shewing any reason and that his worde is no bonde to tie him with all when yt maketh againste him some thinge also muste be spoken towching this matter And seing I haue shewed that he is by S. Paules determination a Bishop which is apâ—e to teache and to exhorte to conuince false doctrine and reproue corrupte maners and that the Ans can not denie but one suche alwaies is not sufficiente for some churches especially where the commoditie of assemblies is so good that euery daie the worde off good ys to be preached yt can not be denied but that there bothe maie and owght to be moe bishops in a churche muche more in a cytie then one And that this was the institution off God it appearethe by the practise of the churches in
set downe off the Ans He saith it is a poore refuge to discredite the autor I spared the autor casting part of the error vpoÌ„ the times wherin he liued which I proued corrupter and further from the truth left by thapostles by a reason which he could not so much as wrangle with althowgh as towching the proofe off an archbishop or bishop suche as ours I am content the Ans set vp his credit as much as he will. He saith there is no difference betwene Cyprians bisbop and Ieromes Seing he will needes haue it so let one measure be off both and therby I trust shall appeare off that which I haue spoken before that Ieromes bishop is lower by heade and shoulders then they for whom his autoritie is houlden owt Howbeit if in Cyprians time the bishop onely had not the laying on of handes and ordeining him that was chosen to the ministrie by the church but the Elders and he did nothing in his church or parish but vvith aduise of the Elders theroff yt appeareth that Ieromes bishop althowgh differing onely from an other minister in ordeining Elders and Deacons had somwhat encroched vpon the boundes off the presbitery more then Cyprians Lastly he saith for the corruption off times this kinde of bishop was deuised I willingly giue testimonie vnto those gouernours or at least the most off them that they had a good meaning in that inuention off man but that it was remedy against the corruptions I deny And to the reasons before alledged for proofe therof let this be added that euen from the first day wherin this deuise was established the corruption in the church was not deminished but grew and got strenght by litle vntill the whole face of the earth was couered and the power off darcknes in the fulnes off Antichristes kingdome wholy setled Likewise that the first resistance by any setled church against that corruption was by those which abolished that deuise off man and receiued the order in the Apostels times towching the equalitie off ministers As the Bohemians Merindoles the churches in Germany and Geneua whose standerd bearers as partly hath appeareth and more hereafter shall fowght against this stately dominion both of bishops and archbishops The next diuis I leaue to the readers iudgement referring him to that answered in the beginning In the next as one whose forehead is more hard then Adamant he shameth not still to affirme that this manner off bishop and archbishop was in the Apostles time notwithstanding the autor owt off whom he draweth his proofes confesseth that at the first there was no difference betwene a bishop and an Elder and that after it was decreed that in euery church one onely should haue the name of bishop Yf it were the first institution that they shoulde be one and the first institution be the Apostels institution it was the Apostels institution that they shoulde be all one yf the Apostels did reuoke this institution off theirs shewe their handes bringe forthe their euidence Ierome prouethe by diuers testimonies off scripture that a bishop and elder were one according to S. Paul. Therfore if the D. auoide this autoritie he must shewe vs the Apostels autoritie in writing for herin yt is trwe that the lawe saith matter of vvriting and recorde can not be auoided but by that of as high a nature He gathereth that this order of bishops and archbis was in thapostles times because there were schismes then I haue by this reason proued in an other place that thâ—â—e were no archbishops where if he had any thinge he should haue spoken And how is he bewitched which seeth not the wordes of his autor For when Ierome saith this came by custome he euidently declareth that â—â— was not by determinacion of the Apostels The same declareth Augustin when he saith the office of a bishop vvas greater then off an other mynister as tovvching the names off honor throvvghe a custome off the churche vvhich novve hathe gotteÌ„ the vpper hand Likewise when Ierome saithe this preferment of the bishop is not by any necessitie of lavve but for that yt vvas graunted to honor him vvithall yt ys manifeste that yt was not by the Apostlels determinacion For yf yt had bene their institution yt had bene necessarie After admitting yt was after the Apostels he procedeth to answer Tertullian which saithe that ys true vvhich is first that ys false vvhich is later But how cometh yt to passe that he anwereth not that alledged owte off our Sauiour Christes e wordes which calleth the Pharisies vnto the firste institution that was belike to harde for him to byte vpon And the answer vnto Tertullian is absurde For he bringeth him in reasoning as he vseth that is prouing the thinge in controuersie by that a like doubtefull For if the rule of Tertullian extende yt selfe no further then vnto thinges he there speaketh of and in debate his reason is no reason but a giddie turne aboute wherin altowghe greate paines be taken yet there is no grownde gotten Wheras Tertullian proue the that Praxeas iudgement of our Sau. Christe was therfore naught because yt was new aÌ„d new because yt was not agreing with that gyuen by the scripture Moreouer his answer to the place presumeth that the gouernement off the churche is not a matter off faithe and saluacion which is the question And as for his Phantasies he resembleth my reason with they haue nothing like For beside that there were Christian magistrates baptisinges in churches coÌ„munion ministred vnto more then 12 â–ª in thapostels times and off their alowance the Apostels neuer tawght that there should be no ChristiaÌ„ magistrates no baptisinges hut in riuers no eating off thinges strangled c. the contrary off all which they plainly taught ordeining onely that the Gentils should support the Iewes in strangled thinges abut they rawght that a bishop and traching elder be all one and neuer alowed that one Pastor shoulde take the name off a bishop from all his fellows within 40. myles compas The testimonie owt off Tertull maketh way for Montanus heresie wherof I haue spoken beforé Vnto the nexte diuis he answereth not For yt being plaine that the Apostels tawght that a bishop and elder were all one because he had nothinge to answer he leueth that and runnethe backe to that handled in the beginning off the equalitie off ministers As for the testimonie owte of Zuinglius firste yt is vntrw that the Anabaptistes obiecte this place againste Zuinglius which I haue pressed him with secondly yt is vntrue that they obiected vnto him in the like case which wee doo for in all their controuersies with him they haue not one of those pointes now debated And where he saith Tertullians wordes serue not because thes degrees are not againste the truth let him denie if he dare that this is the truth off God that a Bishop and an other minister off the word be all
allegde Iacobs tvvo vviues to proue he might haue as many as he liste should ansvver that althovvgh he might haue tvvo yet yt folovveth not that he may haue as many as he liste proueth that one may ouerthrow one vnlawfull thing by an other withowt teaching ether off them lawfull which the D. calling yt a ieste answereth not And yet yt ys manifest that thes he his reasons both here and there which may in deede worthely be iested at albeit there is no worde in the example I browght that carieth the countenance off a ieste Vnto that I browght of greater necessitie off vnitie in the vvhole church then in ane Prouince there is nothing answered here he saith I am greatly deceiued considering that the Pope claimeth his temporalities by Constantine and his supremacie by Peter If he listed he might haue vnderstanded that diuers Papistes which handle that matter off supremacie alledge Constantines donacion for his temporalities onely I said not that the Pope maketh his claime onely by Constantine Althowgh yt may be shewed that Sozimus who yow say claimed the supremacie ouer all the church made his claime not by Peter nor by any autoritie off scripture but by the Councell off Nice confirmed by the Emperour Constantine Where he saith my supposition touching one Caesar ouer all the realmes which haue churches is but supposed I meruaile that he is ignorant that Constantine in the ende off his reigne had the Empire whole in his handes and that all the churches had rest vnder him that the Emperour off Rome is called lorde off all the earth Lord off all the vvorlde So that if he would haue appointed one bishop ouer all prouinces vnder him the bishop of his appointement should haue had more then double the iurisdiction that the Pope euer had when his kingdome was largeste the Pope him selfe making no further claime then ouer the churches which bare the name off Christe as Pighius him selfe confesseth Wherupon foloweth that his answer often alledged to put a difference betwene the archbishop and Pope the one taketh it to him selfe the other hath yt of the gifte of the Prince is not worthe a strawe Where I shew that the sufficientest mynister finding enovvghe to doo in one onely congregacion no man can be hable to vvelde the gouernement off all the churches in a Prouince he answereth that lacke off will or skill of some busie Pastors to dispatch controuersies which them selues be autors off letteth not but that bishops and archbish may be sufficient for their charges I make my argument off all and he answereth off some I of the moste fyt and sufficient pastors and he off vnfit If he haue any better answer wee will attend after yt if not then the archbishop is here againe taken by defaulte And when ether he must needes let his Archbishop fall to the ground or els denie that men off greatest giftes haue found enowgh to doe in the gouernement of one congregacion being both vnwilling to graunte the one and ashamed to denie the other yt is manifest he crept into this corner When I shew that as the patrons off the Archb. may alledge the supplie off Archdeacons Chauncelors c. in their absence so the popes aduocates may pretende his deputacion off Cardinalls c. he answereth that the office off bishop and Archbishop may be well excuted so farre as yt is conuenient for the estate of the church which ys that in question Where lykewise otherwhere I alledged to this pourpose that his bishop and Archbishop hauing their charge assigned by him the same vvith a commen pastor the gouernement onely excepted are therby bounde to pastorall preaching and ministring off sacramentes in all the parishes off their iurisdiction vvhich is impossible he staggereth to and fro saying the bishop hath to procure his diocese ys muche as in him lieth wheras he is charged for laying hand to more then he can gripe He addeth according to the lawes of the churche he is afraied to say off god that they preach where and when they see yt moste conuenient by that rule neuer also and no where yf in their sighte yt be conueniēt That yt foloweth not because the archbishop is bound to minister the word and Sacramentes therfore he muste doo yt in all the parishes of his prouince which followeth well For the bishop appointed by the holy ghoste is commaunded to feed the whole flocke committed vnto him euen with the same feading Saincte Paule fedd the Ephesians that is with preaching so plentifully that all might vnderstand the whole will off god Wheruppon followeth that his charge is not to feede where and when he seeth good but to feed and that to sufficiencie all the people off his charge as he that shall answer for the bloude off all which perish for wante of sufficient instructiō by his mouth And if there be as he saith the same deutie off the Archbishop towardes his charge as off the bishop towardes his the same foloweth in him for the charge off his Prouince being a lyke committed vnto him by the same reason he is bounde to preach in one parte he is bounde in all if not in all in none Now to returne where he saith preaching ordeining mynisters and suppressing herysies is not committed vnto the Archdeacon Chauncelor c. but such as by rules off the church are permitted them firste yt is his continuall faulte that he should proue by the lawe off God he proueth by the lawes of our church yea and by those which remained off the estate which was in poperie I mighte much better alledge the lawes off the reformed churches which haue abolished them And if he wil againste the reasons browghte oppose autoritie and binding me for my proofes within the compas off the worde off God vvander him selfe in the broade feilde off mens lawes in question yt is time to shuite vp the disputation which is mainteined by such grosse begginge Secondly how will he proue that he may sett ouer his charge vnto an other or that yt ys more lawfull to committ other thinges perteining vnto his office then those which he reserueth vnto him selfe Or if he may commit yt whether he may commit yt to tharchdeacon so farre vnder degree of the mynisterie off the Archbishop to whome those thinges belong or to Chauncelors c. which haue no entrance into the ministerie by any ecclesiasticall institution all which are shewed vnlawful in the booke of discipline lately set forth And why may not the Pope cōmmunicate his charge with his Cardinales as well as the archbishop with his Suffraganes c If he can shew no word why he may doo it but it be onely vpon constitution off the church that he casteth the ouerplus off his bourdē vpō the neck of his Chancelour c by the same reason the vniuersall bishop may discharge him self vpon his deputies Where he saith the vniuersall bishop can not ordeine
b Diuis 9. pag. 442. c Councel Neocaesar d Possido in vita August Instit 4. l. ca. 4. 3 se vpon the eight coÌ„ â–ª maund a in the praef to the 3. ca. of this tr b vpon Phil. ca. 1. c 2. cap. off this tra Diuis 15. pag 445. Euse li. 1. de vit Const a Athana Apol. 2. b Costerius in the life off Ambro. c IeroÌ„ ad Rusticum Monach. d 1. Cor. 10 e Ier. vpon Titus Ier ad Oceanum f Di. 16. 17 pag. 446. g 4. carth 14. 15. ca. Tyron c. 5 Pag. 471 â–ª In the booke intituled the Discipline c. a 4. conc Cart. c. 32 Sozom. lib. 3. c. 9. Athanas 2. Apol. b August Epist â—0 a Possido invit Au. b Roma cap â–ª 3. c vpoÌ„ the eight coÌ„maund a Cal. inst 4. lib ca. â— sect 17. a M. Fox in the boke off M. Tindal c. b VpoÌ„ the 8. coÌ„maund c M. Elm. d 473. e Possid in vit August f Ad NepotianuÌ„ opa 472. â— pag. 83. pag. 200. pag. 473. Pag. 473 Conc. Ty roÌ„ 3 can 5. pag. 473. Diuis 18. pag. 447. Cart. c 34 Iud. 8. v. Diuis 19. pag. 447. Euseb 7. li. ca. 30. Ruffin 1. lib. ca. 19. Athana Apol. 2. Diuis 20. pag. 448. Ioh. 20. 1â— Theod li. 5. cap. 8. Socr. li. â— cap. 6. Diuis 21. pag 449. a 1. Tim. 3 â— c Vpon the 8. coÌ„maund Ierom. ad Nepot Diuis 22. pag. 450. Diuis 23. 24. 25. pag. 451. 1. Tim. 6. 6. 8. vpon 4. Ephes Diuis 26. pag. 452. CAP. VI. Pag. 454. 1. Cor. 4. 1. Diuis 4. pag. 455. * Tract 1. Diui. 6. pag. 457. a Diui. 15. pag. 367. vpon the Ephes e Diu. 42. pag. 390. Diuis 7. pag. 458. 1. Cor. 15. 9. Diuis 10. pag. 461. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Diui. 11. pag. 462. Heb. 5. 5. 6 a Diu. 31. pag. 380. Diuis 33. Pag. 381. b Diu. 14. pag. 465. c Diu 32 pag. 381. Diuis 41. pag. 389. d Diui. 33. pa. 381. e di 1617. pag. 467. f Diu. 41. pag. 389. a Diu 43. pag. 390. Diuis 50. pag. 396. Diuis 70. pag 417. b Diu. 18. pag. 469. Iohn 3. 8. a d 70. 71 pag. 4. 7. b â— Tract c in the 2. and 3. ca. off this Tract d di 16. 17 pag. 446 Throwgh desire off making no great chaunge off the order laid forth by the Doctor vvherby the reader should be muche troubled in collatioÌ„ of our bokes and partly for that my papers vvent so sone to the printâ— vvherby I could not correct that my self aftervvard misliked at is come to pas that there are diuers thinges vvherin by order it might haue bene better prouided for memory VVhich I haue partly endeuoured to help by this direction vvherby yt shall not be vneasy to finde any off the principal pointes conteined in this book THe scripture is a perfect rule off all actions which can fall into maÌ„s life aswell in defining thinges vnnariable as in giuing rules wherby thinges variable by circunstance may be compassed page lvij c. Whether refer that wherin is shewed what of Moses law remaineth page xciij Likewise that the Actes of thapostles are necessary for vs to folow page clv. As appeareth namely in the gouernement off the church disputed throwghowt the whole book and in that communitie they vsed which is not now Anabaptisticall cc. viij Hether also refer that yt is the vertue off a good law to leaue as litle as may be in the discretion off the iudge xciiij Also that yt ys one thing to be expressed and an other to be commaunded in the scripture xlv Wherupon the argument off autoâ—â—â—ie off the scripture is good 43. 81 But nawght from men especially in diuine matters xviij and xlvij Whether refer that the Godly writers and holie martyre died in error vj. Wheroff the example browght by me off free will is handled 54. an other browght by the D. off the millenaries althowgh he in part slaundereth the ould fathers in that behalf delij Discipline Ciuil THe magistrat ought to be seuerer in punishing offeÌ„ces vnder the gospell then vnder the law cxj. cxviij Neglecters off the word are punishable by the word lxx The law off capitall punishements remaineth xcviij Contemners off the word ought to be put to death lxviij Murtherers cij Incestuous and adulterous persons c. The punishing off the breaches off the second Table by death and not off the first is to begin at the wrong end cxvij Discipline Ecclesiasticall THe Ecclesiasticall discipline is prescribed in the word as the doctrine ccccxl Aswell vnder the gospell as vnder the law ibid. Amplified by comparison off the Ark Tabernacle Temple ccccxliiij Confirmed by examples off Dauid and Salomon which attempted nothing in the church gouernement without the expres word off God ccccxliiij Also off others lxxxvj That the form theroff owght not to be allwaies according to the forme off the coÌ„mon wealth cxxx clix ccxcviij dciiij That yt ys not allwaies conuenient that the form of the commen wealth should beframed to the form off the churche gouernement ccxxvij That the churche gouernement is one off the three markes off the church liij That yt is safely taken from the Apostels times and dauÌ„gerously from the first 500. yeares after them That the externall gouernement off the church is euill distinguished from the spiritual That yt hindereth not the ciuil discipline ij Calling THe callinges vnâ—â— the mynistery are defined off in the word of god For tha 〈◊〉 â— giftes necessary for the gouernement off the church fall into the offices prescribed in yt 462. Where are rehersed the proper giftes wherby they are seuered amoÌ„gest theÌ„ selues This is also shewed by that it is not lawfull to diminish those the lord hath set and therfore not to ad vnto them cccclxiiij Likewise by the demaunde the Pharisies made vnto Iohn ccccxxxvj A calling lawfull and yet extraordinary page xxxâ—â—j The Apostels Prophetes and Euangelistes are euil distinguished by the D. cccvij There can be none off these functions now withowt an extraordinary calling ccciij The same coulde not be a bishop Euangelist and Apostle at once cccxviij Epaphroditus was no Apostle in that sense that S. Peter was ccciiij An Euangelist could not withowt his fault be made a bishop much les could an Apostle 321. Timothe was an Euangelist and no bishop cccxij The abusing off the writers both ould and nue to proue Apostles Prophetes and Euangelistes ordinary ministers cccxxvij What maner a men they were which after those sent foorth into the whole world called them selues Apostles cccviij Hereupon we refuse the callinges of Archbishop otherwise called MetropolitaÌ„ and our kinde of bishop ArchdeacoÌ„ and deane as those which taken euen for the very principall church officers haue no ground in the word of God Proued in that they are conteined in nether of the places off the Ephesians or Corinthians where al the ministeries Ecclesiasticall are
is vnmeet to … own mynisters their Care chism ccclxiiij Hether belongeth the treatise off reaâ—ing the holy scriptures where fyrst ys shewed the vse of reading them in the church ccclxxv That reading off them is not able ordinarily to hould the people from pining ccclxiij Nether can reading of praiers or admynistration off the Sacramentes withowt preaching ccclxiiij That simple readers ordeined for pastors can not properly be called watchmen ccclxxvj That reading ys not preaching ccclxxxvij Against the phrenefie that bare reading ys better then preaching clxxxv That bare reading ys not so good as preaching ccclxxiiij not to the learned them selues ccclxxxiiij much les reading of the homilies cccxciij Which are not meet to be red in the churche openly cccxcij As are not also the Apoctypha ccxcviij especially considering their corruptions page cccc Hether perteineth the iudgement off the churches off vnlearned ministers ccclxiiij The causes off the vnlearned mynistery with vs ccclxiij ccclxv ccclxxj Ordination ORdination doth not belong to the bishop alone cclxxiiij Against the Bishop commaunding to receiue the holie goste in ordeining ccxcij Residence IN the residence off the ministers that off the Pastor is particularly handled 4. Tract page cccxxx Where our reasons are mainteined That it is the institution off God in the ould Test cccxlij In the nue cccxliiij That the calling of the church which ys also the lordes ys to that place onely cccxxxij That he owght to be resideÌ„t that therby greater loue might be wrought cccxiv That hauing better knowledg off the estate off his flock he may better doe all dueties towardes them cccxxxix That with seing the blessing off God he might be stirred to further diligence cccxlv That his flock hauing more famyliaryty might haue easier acces ibid. That he might be 〈◊〉 â—â—mple of life cccxliij Proued also by … oÌ„tinual duty off preaching Whether perteineth that treatise wherein ys shewed that yt ys conuenient yt should alwaies god before the administring of the holie Sacramentes cccxlviij Hether may be referred the comparison of the diligence of the elder Bishops in preaching dcxlvij Whether also refer the vnlawfull power of the bishop towching licences to preach wherby yt is in his will whether he will gyue the pastor leaue to preach or no coÌ„sidering that it is a necessarie dutie of the pastor and the principall cause off his residence cccxlj That he must admonish both the wicked and the godly strengthen both the weak and the strong cccxlj Comfort in temptation cccxlvij Therfore that the bare reading off the scripture is no sufficient supplie in his absence cccxliij Nether his care cccxxxij That the conscience off the pastor and contentement of the people ys no good rule off doing these duties cccxxx Nether belongeth that the pastor owght not to goe here and there to preache where he thincketh good Where ys shewed that God doeth not alwaies call to places where one may doe most good no not in the extraordinary callings muche les in the ordinary cccxxxvj That this going about to preache as yt ys assigned of the Answerer taketh away the difference betwene the pastors calling and the extraordinary functions cccxxxij That those extraordinary callinges doe not make against the pastors residence as yt is assigned off vs cccxxxj cccxxxix That they rather make for yt cccxxxij cccxxxiij cccxxxv That ordinarie deputies are ouerthrown by this residence cccliiij whether may be referred that dlxxxvj of deputies Likewise pluralities of benefices ccclvj Hether refer that absence for some causes and some conditions doe not ouerthrow resideÌ„ce cccliij This ys also proued by comparison of shepardes and watchmen cccxxxvj Where ys shewed how shamefully the answerer abuseth the doctrine off Gods holy election and of final perseuerance of those whiche are once called cccxxxviij Also that by his answer the pastor after he hath admonished them need neuer come to them nor yet leaue any deputie cccxli Likewise off the eie and soule cccxlvij 〈◊〉 yt as ys precious a worke to kepe those gotten as to get otheâ—â—â—ich be in ignorance and more agreable vnto the pastors of … e. The autoritie off Councels and fathers cccxxxiiij cccliiij Ecclesiasticall correction A part off that Ecclesiasticall discipline which standeth in corrections is commaunded is Math. 66. To note onely the errors corruptioÌ„s and shameful falsifyinges of the D. in suche sort as he hath pretended in my book were to make a new book But because there is much void paper I wil gyue the reader an assay onely of those conteined in the treatises which I haÌ„dle in this book And those shal be not off the capital matters betwene vs but off such as are browght to vnderset them quoted according to his own book whereby yt shal appeare that for the defence off this cause he troubleth heauen yt self and in earth ouerthroweth both estates Ciuil and Ecclesiasticall THe vvhole lavv of god generally is abrogated pa. 121. li. 39. The scripture speaketh not one vvord off preaching or baptizing priuately or openly page 89. line 6. The scripture hath not commaunded nether can yt be by necessary collection theroff gathered vvhether vve should receiue the communion clothed or naked page 24. line 21. The scripture hath appointed no discipline for the correcting off suche as shall contemn the hearing off the vvord and coÌ„mon praier page 88 line 47. He matcheth the iudiciall lavves off god gyuen vnto the Ivves vvith the Turckes lavves page 149 line 32. HE alovveth th 〈◊〉 sentence off Cyrill vvhich condemneth the iustice off g … … ishing those by aeternall death vvhich suffered corporâ—â—â—â—ath vnder the lavv page 149. line 48. He matcheth the â—ouâ—â—shing off saithe by consideration off the creatures vvith popishe imagety page 571. line 2. TO maintein the sole election off the bishop he vvould haue the free elections off magistrates in cities and Borovvgh Tovvnes taken avvay page 171. line 49. VVherby he vvill haue the forme of gouernement off the common vvealth framed vnto the form off the church vvheroff notvvithstanding and that most vntrvvly he accuseth me Likevvise that vnder the gospell there is no punishment off the body laid vpon a transgressor but that if he repent so that he may seem vvorthy to haue the punishement vvithdravvn he may finde forgiuenes page 150. line 9. No man vvhat crime soeuer he hath committed is to be secluded from any lavvful vocation if he repeÌ„t And by vocation he meaneth publike office page 146. line 23. The externall gouernement off the church vnder a Christian magistrate must be according to the kinde and form off gouernement vsed in the common vvealth pa. 389. li. 5. vvhich beside the absurditie vtterly ouerthrovveth the liberty vvhich him self pretendeth that the church hath in disposing off yt In the Apostels times yt vvas permitted to all men to preache the vvord off God page 191. li. 16. Beside Pastors there are novv vvith vs Apostles Prophetes and Euangelistes page 229. line 6. ALthovvgh there vvere a sufficient nomber off able men to supply the places of the reading ministers yet the reading ministers ovvght to kepe their places still page 485. lin 5. The vvord ys as effectual red as preached Page 569. lin 23. To those vvhich vnderstand the scriptures they are as vvhot and lightsom red as preached page 573. li. 34. publike reading in the church is as solemâ—â— matter as Catechising the youth page 425. lin 43. Yt may be that some men be more aedified 〈◊〉 simple reading off the scriptures â–ª then by sermons paâ—â— â—80 li. 30. To that I say that nether homilies nor Apocrypha are to be compared ether in goodnes vvithin them selues or fruict to the hearers vvith the scripture or reading thereof he ansvvereth that that maketh against sermons as vvel as against homilies and rather against sermons then against them Page 717 li. 52. VVherby he affirmeth that homilies are both better in them selues and more fruiteful to the hearers then sermons
be the easilest caried into all other places and which abounding with knowledge off the gospell were fittest to iudge off the goodnes off the cause Wherin I doubte not but the good hande off Gods direction and the example off the Apostells haue bene considered who that they might haue fuller sheues off the seed of their doctrine preased to the chief and moother cities making their accompte that the mother being won the daughters round abowte vvould be easilier intreated And althowghe yt come to often to pas that there is some Amazias or high preist nere the courte which vseth both his eies to watche that none come thether to disquiet his vnlawfull possession yet forsomuche as it is as impossible to pull the winges off the winde that yt should not blow or shut the windowes off the heauens that they should not raine as to stop that trwth which God in his holy worde hath breathed and doeth raine by the clowdes off his mynistery I dowbt not but the voice off yt is come to the highest and shall haue that fruict in time which God hath disposed off Yf yt should not yet euery faithfull mynister is detter vnto his flocke off the whole trwth learned owt off the worde off God aswell for reioicing their heartes in encrease of knowledg as that therby they might bewail their synnes for want off yt and forthwith be stirred to continuall praier that God would encline the Princes heart and off others in autoritie to gyue yt that defence which apperteineth Nether doe we therefore call vpon the examination off our doctrine as thowgh we feared least our behauiour should be examined or as if yt resembled the Anabaptistes maner of liuing but that I might shew how disorderly the D. goeth to worck For althowgh before the Lord we and I for my part especially as myserable synners hang down our heades and couer our faces yet our behauiour throwgh his grace towching that surmised of vs ys such as we nothing fear but with all indifferent iudgement yt conteineth plentifull remedy against the sting off all suche slaunderous tonges Wise Physicions when the desease is vnknown seeke yt by owtward tokens off pulse vrine c. Yf we had nourished any night or corner doctrine which we whispering in the eares of certeine woulde not haue had come owt of the doores of our priuat houses yt should haue bene accounted to him for wisdom by signes and coniectures to haue inquired into our couert opinions But now seing we haue Fanckly and openly published our iudgementes and as yt were on the Faire and Market daies proclaimed them offering them in scholes in churches by preaching by writing not onely to the tast off the commen people but to the examination of the best learned after al this to inquire by signes and tokens is to seek his aduersary whiche standeth hard by to call for him which is present And yt is as if one to know what iudgement an other is of had rather take his mark by the colour of his coat or tag of his point then by his speache or hand writing And if it were the good will off God I would for this matter he had a window to look into our consciences To make and ende of answer to these surmises whatsoeuer is proper ether to the heresie off Papistes Anabaptistes Donatists or puritanes that wee vtterly condemne vnto the bottomles pit off hell But if amongest the filth of their herises there may be found any good thing as yt were a grain off good corn in a great deal of darnell that wee willingly receiue not as theiree but as the Iues did the holy Arke from the Philistines wherof they were vniust owners For herein yt is trw that is said the sheep must not lay dovvn her fel becavvse she seeth the vvolf somtim clothed vvith yt yea yt may come to pas that the Synaguog off Satan may haue some one thing aâ— somtime with more conuenience then the trw and Catholike churche off Christ Such was the ceremonie off powring water once onely vpon the childe in baptisme vsed with vs and in the moste reformed churches which in some age was vsed onely by those off the Eunomian heresy As for the Answerer let him remember that the iust Iudge liueth before whome if he doe not speedelie repent one day notwithstanding his gloses I accuse none I apply yt to none he muste houlde vp his hand with Satan the Prince off the accusers off the children off God wherunto I doubt not but his own conscience is his Apparitor and hath giuen him summonce And thus much for answer vnto the D. generall partly accusations and partly surmises against the fauourers off the church discipline now propounded There folow particular charges against the autors off the admonition and against me Those against them haue bene answered and the answers so far forth as they touche the cause are in this boke mainteined sauing certein new charges Wherein I dowbt not but they will take yt in good part that I vse silence seing that some of the smaller thinges are such as lie not in my knowledg and some so manifestly vntrw that they need not fear any credit to be gyuen vnto them the D. him selfe as I thinck not belieuing them Of his accusations against me because some haue eie aswel to the speakers as to the thinges spoken I trust yt shall not be greuous yf I answer somthing Especially when in this preface beside other thinges I purpose God willing to Synk nigh half his later book For if one would make suruey off reproches vntrw surmises and false accusations wherwith he hath frawght yt beside a nwe lode which he hath charged the second edition off his first boke with he should I suppose finde nigh one half spent in those wares Wherin he dealeth with me as certein beastes which pursued cast forth behinde them an vntollerable sauour therby to affray their hunters from further chasing them In deed they are very vnpleasant but the good sauour off the trwth and off honest behauiour in thinges he accuseth me off hath by the grace off God so comforted all the senses off my minde that he hath not escaped by this pollicie Some off his accusations touche the cause but the most part touche yt not Off this later kynd one sort are off my maner of liuing â–ª albeit he count yt a childishe kinde off confuting that one should leaue the cause and take him self to the person Here my ministerie is diuerslie accused as that I did not seke for the ordre off priesthood as it is called for that is that he meaneth I should haue done by othe or els departed the Colledge The answer hereto is longer then this treatise may embrace which I am readie to exhibit before him to whom it belongeth because I am prouoked I humbly desire him to receiue the cause But in a word yt ys a meer cauill For the meaning off
the statute off the howse is to prouide that men should not turne their studies to other professions off law c but that there should be to furnish the Colledge off a numbre off preachers off which I was one as sone as I entred Nether was there any dutie of mynisterie which the Colledg could require off me that I was not inabled to doo according to the lawes of the churche off England by vertue off that mynisterie which I had receiued So that the law yt self as that whose meaning was fulfilled euen with my entrie did not require yt Also the corruption off the law or at the least off his interpretation binding men to beg a ministery and therby after a sorte to testifie off them selues that they befit for yt might after knowledg that I owght not to beg it iustly kepe me back By how muche more I were worthie to be condemned if as he accuseth I had ambitiously desired to be the Queenes maiesties diuinitie reader for which I neuer opened lip Yf I had how knoweth he I did yt ambitiously who maketh yt lawful to aske yt So that onles he know my hart my laboring for it yf any had bene is iustified by his diuinity The life I answer to an other not vnlife that I earnestly desired the degree off doctorship Wherin beside that I moued nothing but yelded onely to the request off certein frindes I had before my grace propounded in the scholes the aduise off more than a dosen learned ministers Who considering that I had the office off a Doctorin the vniuersitie were off opinion that for the good they estemed might be done therby I might swalow the fond and idle ceremonies which accompanie yt His fourth is that I haue forsaken the ministerie wherunto I answer as I haue for them whom he likewise chargeth His fift that I my selfe preaching before here and there where I thowght good now condemne yt in others the answer whereof is partly page 45. line 17. off his and partly page 41. line 20. off my boke The last that I refused his conference which is vntrwe For beside that I answered that yt was meet the doctrine I had taught openly shoulde be defended openly and beside that also I went to two off the vniuersitie Doctors to be conferred with I offered my self to his priuat conference which althowgh he had promised yet vnder pretence that I was as he said vncorrigible he would not performe The truth is he offered priuat conference by writing but hauing before experience off his vnfaithfulnes many waies I refused yt And thus muche to his accusations towching as well my comming to and goyng from the ministerie as also off my behauiour in yt Of the most wheroff there are diuers witnesses and off all the Lord him self bothe witnes and iudge whose presence in this defence I set before myne eies Vnles peraduenture that also may seem to appertein hether that by defence off this cause I woulde chuse my selfe the place off my mynistery Wherof I lay euill foundations which teache that no man may place him self but wait for his calling especially when by his doctrine I may feed in euerie pasture and lightlie grasing or taking the vppermost of one streight way goo to an other In the other part of my life after he had thrust me out of the Colledge he accuseth me for going vp and downe doing no good and liuing at other mēs tables that I was not idle I suppose he knoweth to well Whether well occupied or no let it be iudged I liued in deed at other mens tables hauing no hous nor wife of myne own but not without their desire ād with smal delight of mine for feare of euil tonges And althowgh I were not able to requite yt yet towardes some I went abowte yt instructing their children partely in the principles off religion partly in other learning His other accusations beside the cause are off my maner off writing The matter is blamed for that as he saith yt consisteth wholy of other mens notes and collections and that I haue scarce red one off the autors which I haue alledged yea and that I also contēne them namely maister Nowels Catechism And for the forme It is blamed as vndutifull towardes the Archbishops bishops c. namely the Bishop of Salisbury and himselfe especially That off contempt off M. Nowels and other mens workes I detest as intollerable arrogancie The other wherin the question is off great reading I let pas For yf he be learned and I not haue read them all and I scarce one it will easely appear to the learned beside that as I haue said it towcheth not the cause Onely I admonish that he doe yt hereafter with better ground For notwitstanding it is like he hunteth me with moe howndes then I him yet beside those places I confes my selfe to haue receiued he noteth not many and that excepted off Ierome mistaken for Musculus not one trewlie Let vs therfore come to the forme Where in my behauiour towardes the bishop of Salisbury I would gladly know of him what wordes he could haue prescribed me wherby I might more modestly haue dissented from him So that vnles the simple defence of the cause be misbehauiour I am well assured there is no dutie broken For my speches off the Archbishops c. generally yf all should be taken either in this or the former book against their persons which I speak against their offices his accusation should not be altogither vntrew But as condemning these offices or their corruptions I make no conscience to speake contemptuously off them so diuers off the persons which beare them both for their learning ād proof of godlines shewed in times past I will not cease to reuerence vntil which I hope wil not be by open enimitie against a knowne trwth their own consciēces shall think them selues vnworthy And this to an indifferent reader shal suffice for towardes the D. I haue no remedie which expoundeth all duetifull sayinges counterfaict humilitie glorious and Smooth wordes to get credit My dewtie towardes him is accused diuersly of vnbrotherhood vnfaithfulnes wante of good will made heinous by circumstance of periury and vnthankfulnes Wherein I wil not answer that I vsed not you as maister because yow vsed not me as felow but ask yow wherin this breache off duetie consisteth Yf Iowe yow fidelitie Iowe yt more vnto the lorde yf good will the trwth must be preferred yf the master of Trinitie Colledg be a frend the trwth is more Yf yow a brother the trwth owght to be brother sister mother and al. Against what part off trw fidelitie ys yt to reproue him openly by writing which had openly by writing spoken euill off that which I was and am perswaded to be the euerlasting trwth off God and reuiled those which mainteined yt Against what poinct off good will to haue shewed him
Beside that it is vntrew that all those kinges which I saide to haue caried the marke and spott off their imperfection suffred manifest Idolatrie as it appeareth in the example off kinge Asa Vnto the nexte section I answer nothing To the 13. sect pag. 9. GEinge the church off Christ gathered amonge the Iewes and S. Peter him selffe were ignorant off one of the greatest misteries off Christianitie concerning the maner off the calling off the Gentillee yt owght not to seme straunge vnto vs iff those famous Martirs were ignorant off some principall point commaunded by the word off god And iff it be replyed that this ignorance falleth not into the holie ordre off the martirs off Christ and that the lord leueth not those which are witnesses vnto death in ignorance off any such necessarie pointe Cyprian and Iustin Martyr wheroff besides other smaller errors the one helde that those which were baptized by the heretikes were to be baptized againe the other was a Chiliast aÌ„d said that the faithful should in the generall resurrection line with Christ here vppon earthe 1000. yeares I say these two godlie Martyrs are sufficient profes that the glorie off martyrdome dothe not free men from being in danger off ignorance off some necessarie doctrine commaunded in the scripture Origene if he were as it written off him a Martyr had so many and so grosse errors that he had neede haue verie fauourable interpretation to make him holde the fundation of Religion especially iff they be his workes whiche goo vnder his name And if it be further said that albeit those martyrs did erre in suche weightie matters yet it is to be supposed that before their deathes they chaunged opinion I saye that that can be by no likelihoode supposed For then vndowtedlie they would haue called backe their former opinions and not haue suffred them to the hurt off the church to haue liued after theredeathe If this be not sufficient to shew that godlie Maxtyrs maye remaine in the ignoraÌ„ce of some necessarie point of Religion our owne Ecclesiasticall stories do furnishe vs with diuerse examples off godlie Martyrs off all sortes and all times but especially in the beginning when the daie off the light off the Gospell beganne to peepe owt off that night off popishe darknes wherin we were who euen in there examinations before theire martirdome affirme the contrary off that wheroff we are clerely taught in the word of god I haue not the booke by me but I well remembre there mentioned of a notable man and off the later Martyrs which affirmeth a verie grosse descent off our sauior Christ into hell which is an error in one off the articles off our faithe Another graunting such a Purgatorie after this life as the papistes do imagine and others also diuerse failing in substantiall pointes of doctrine wherby whatsoeuer becommeth off this place off Nehemias yet that is trew which I set downe that both good men and learned and martyrs may not onely be ignorant but also holde the contrarie off some substantiall pointes off Religion So that iff the example which I vsed should not serue yet the doctrine which I set downe is trew and vnshaken yea sauing onelye a bare deniall vntouched And because the Answerer holdeth oute the Slidinges of the moste excellent seruantes of god to hide this vnfaithful dealing withe the church in this resistance against the trewth he must vnderstand that their want in these thinges is so farre from making his fault lesse that it shall weighe so much more to his condemnation by how much the lord hathe offred the knowledge off those thinges vnto him which he disdainefullie reiectinge would withowt all controuersie haue bene ioyfullie embraced off those blessed Martyrs And iff he had rather here this sentence off an other then off me it is that which Cyprian in a certeine Epistle writeth wher all this is confirmed when he saith That yff any off our predecessors either by ignorance or by simplicitie did not hold that vvhich the Lorde did by his commaundement and example teache that the Lord vvould forgiue that simplicitie But vnto vs saith he vvhich are admonished instructed there is no suche pardon lefte And althowghe he now whiteth there tombes withe a fewe faierr wordes yet it is to be feared that iff they were aliue and should but a litle touche his bile all the learning and godlines they had should not be able to harnesse theÌ„ froÌ„ those dartes of his tonge which others haue felte And it shall appeare I dowbt not or euer we haue done whether he beare that reuerence which he pretendeth when I shall haue shewed that the principall pointes which are debated betwene vs and which he is so looth to forgoo be clere and manifest assertions partlie off the eldest and moste auncientest professors off the gospell and partely off the moste famous learned martyrs in this our land I saye wheÌ„ these thinges shal be shewed it shal be discouered whether this price which he seteth of there iudgement hathe risen of their exellencie in vertew and learniÌ„g or rather of that cause which I haue before obserued In the allegation off the place of Nehemias yff I would followe the answeres traine I need not retracte any thinge For I could alledge vppon that that bothe before and after ther is rehearsed the same storie which was spoken off in Esra the feast off tabernacles is like to be all one spoken off in Esra and in Nehemia howbeit because there are reasons which leade me to thinke otherwise I willinglie confesse that the storie of the celebration of the feast of tabernacles in the third of Esra maketh against that I said of not holdinge that feast so manie yeares But I denie that the answerer in all this great triumphe either dothe or can lose my holde off that place wherby I confirmed the continuance off so many yeares in omittinge that which owght to haue bene done by the commaundement of god For notwithstanding the feast were celebrated yet it can not be shewed that it was kept in suche sorte as it owght with boothes made of certèine leaues and bowghes commaunded in the law And that the wordes off the booke of Nehemias which affirme that the childreÌ„ of Israel had not done so froÌ„ the time c are not referred onely to the ioie which was great in that feast but vnto the kepinge of it with bowghes â—â— in times past omited there is this likelihood that the storie sheweth how they had celebrated the first day off the feast withowt any off those bowghes prescribed and that the second day of the feaste hearing the law read which coÌ„maunded those bowghes they corrected their error werupon imÌ„ediatelie folowe these wordes of the booke that the childreÌ„ of Israel had not done so froÌ„ the time of Iosuah the sonÌ„e of NuÌ„ wherby appeareth that there was a generall ignorance of the manÌ„er of solemnizing that feast euen in Esra the
highe priest whose expertnes and knowledge in the law off god together with a feruent zeale to seke the lord is so highlie commēded off the holie ghoste And iff the Hebrew coniunction Vau which followeth immediately be taken in the proper signification the wordes off the texte will not suffer that worde So to be referred to any other thinge then to the omitting off that cōmaundement of the lord by the space of so many yeares as I haue assigned so that vnlesse I will yealde him this place willinglie he is not able withe any force of reason to wring it owt of my handes The places off the kinges and Cronicles are not like vnto this for the speaches are plaine ād clere there which is not so in this place especiallie to that ende that he would carie them Where he asketh whether he should saie That I haue not read the place or doe not vnderstand yt or vvillinglie and vvittiinglie abuse it or receiued it in some notes from others let it be free to him for me to saye either of them or all off them togither But wher he saith he will saie none of them and yet in another place twentie lines after chargeth me with the most heinous of them all that is with wilfull deprauing off the Scriptures excepte he can bring it to some figure of Rhetoricke which wil be harde for him to doo it is to open an vntrewth ioined as it should seme withe a great excesse of enuie and displeasure the streme wheroff was so stronge that it did as it were by force carie awaie the trewth off his promise Vnto the 14. section I Onelie proue that their highe estate owght not to shadowe the cause in hand I saye nothing lesse then that men in highe estate can not haue the trewth their is no syllable sounding that waies the contrary I plainely affirme that manie off the Nobilitie and gentrie are Zelous and Religiouse To what ende therfore these places owt off Isay Gualter Bullinger to proue a thing not onelie not denied but plainely afmed For iff he thinke Maister Bullingers sentence dothe hinder that the saiynge off S. Paule to the Corinth can not be vnderstanded of these times he is greatlie abused consideringe that the reason which the Apostell there vseth which is that no fleshe should glorie in the sight off God reacheth to the whole estate of the kingdome of Christ and is not proper to that time And when Maister Bullinger saith that it came to passe especiallie in that time he excludeth not the times that folowe Where as he saithe the simple and plaine meaning of the texte to be that god in his electiō to eternall life hathe neither respecte to learning nobilitie riches or any suche thing he do the manifestly corrupte the sentence off the Apostle and the whole proces off his diputation for the apostle going abowt to mainteine the naked simplicitie off the preaching off the word of god against those that would haue the word preached in the swelling wordes off mans eloquence amongest other reasons vseth this that the lord vseth for the most part other meanes to doo his then the wisdome off men would chuse to doo their matters And therfore that the simple kind off preaching withowt all pompe and brauerie off speach might semelesse strange he sheweth the same to come to passe in the callinge off god in which he taketh the moste vnlikely in mans iudgement and passeth by those that the wisdome of man would sonest take And albeit it be to an other ende this sentence off S. Paule is the same in effecte with that off S. Iames that god chuseth the poore in the world riche in faith Now althowghe it be trew that god hathe not respecte to riches or pouertie nobilitie or base degree in his eternall election yet who is there so voide off all iudgement that will saie that the trew and simple meaning off S. Iames in this place is that god in his eternal election hathe no regard to riches or pouertie When he therfore reproueth them to whom he wrote for that they reiected the poore which the Lorde for the moost part chuseth and made much off the riche which he for the moste part reiecteth Saint Paule therfore sheweth not onely what came to passe in those times but what for the moste part cōmeth and shall come to passe vnto the worldes ende in the Kingdome of Christ euen that he had before learned of our sauior Christ that the poore as those that are afflicted and cast downe withe the sense off their miseries oftentimes do gladlier receiue the gospell Neither followeth it herevpō that the riche and noble are shut owt off the kingdome off God or that riches off them selues make men lesse apte to the kingdome off heauen seing Abraham the father off the beleuers was riche or els that the riche sometime goo not before the poore in receiuing off the gospell whiche we reade to haue come to passe in Beroe and Thessalonique and which sometimes commeth to passe not onelie in one citie but in a whole realme that the nobilitie embrace the gospell and the baser sort despise yt But this I say which also the Apostle meaneth that the common and most vsuall calling off God resteth in more off the porer then off the richer sorte that the riche and noble that haue receiued that benefite of this holie callinge maie learne therby the better to esteme the treasure they haue and the faster to hould y◠But I feare lest in confuting his absurditie I become almoste as absurd as he Yow allow nothing which maketh against yow and that yow may saye trew all Scriptures be they neuer so plaine must be falsified The place off the Cronicles in the 29. chapter is no collection but the plaine and manifest wordes off the Scripture and so clere that it was not possible to haue had clerer wordes For after that the holie goste had said that the leuites the priestes brethern had helped them vntill the worke were done and vntill the priestes had sanctified them selues he addeth the reason 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is for the leuites vvere more vpright in harte in sanctifyinge them selues then the priestes And here the faithe of the Answerer which he vseth with his reader is to be obserued Which hauing one onelie translation to meintaine him selfe against a manifest truthe of the scripture hathe followed that and left not onely the trewthe of the Hebrew but all other translatiōs bothe of the greke wherof the oulde interpretour is nothing els but a translator and of the latin Munster Pagnine Leo Iuda Castalio and other translations in other languages which I am perswaded with one full consent haue amended the error off the vulgar translatiō in latin and yet he is not ashamed to saie that some trāslatiō semeth to insinuate sōe suche thīge as I haue set dovvne in steede that he should haue said all trāslatiōs the ould onelie excepted