horrible things in his blinde furie doth he charge all Churches withall For first when he saith that for matters of order and circumstance there can be no other lawes made of them thā Christ hath made he seeth not the difference betweene the giuing generall rules of charitie of come liues and order which serue for edification that are to be followed in making lawes touching matters in themselues merely indifferent and the very particular lawes thēselues that are so to be made Thē if it be true which he saith the matters of order and circumstance are not variable but stand fixed as inuiolable lawes of Christ in the particulars to be obserued which is false seeing these circumstances are no part of Gods worship As Paul saith The Kingdome of God is not meate and drinke c. but as handmaids to attend vpon it and to adorne it and so are vsed and not vsed as occasion serueth I haue shewed this before in some particulars as that the assemblies are in time of peace gathered in temples and fixed places and open in time of persecution and tumult in the fields in woods and secret places which they change and at the commandement of the pastors and gouernours the wise reader may consider the like not onelie for kneeling and such like but in many other And we sée that the Apostles themselues did decree some things for the time which afterward were to bee altered when the occasion was taken away as namelie to auoide giuing offence to y e weak Iewes which stuck in the ceremonies of the lawe they made this decree Act. 15. That the gentiles should absteine from blood and from strangled We doo not now obserue this decree of the Apostles neither are we to obserue it séeing the occasion is remooued for which it was made Furthermore if there be no lawes to be made in matters of circumstance how shal the flockes knowe what to follow or to obserue where the pastors shall dissent and varie in iudgement Sall not some be rent into one part and some into another Now when hee saith this is to pleade for vnwritten verities to make the Lawe of God vnsufficient to adde to the word alleaging those Scriptures which shew how cursed a thing that is hee dooth but ignorantlie abuse those Scriptures and wickedlie seduce the simple sorte of men For those Scriptures are against the adding of humaine precepts and lawes to be kept as parts of Gods worship to binde the conscience to séeke righteousnes and the forgiuenes of sinnes or the merite of eternall life in them or against such rules of gouernement as God hath set to bee perpetuall This is against the perfection of the word against Christian libertie and in the chiefe things which concerne Gods worship against the ground and foundation of our faith and so a thing most detestable and accursed which our sauiour also and his Apostles refused iustlie to obserue with the blinde Pharisies But now where the Brownist hath his eyes so daseled with that pillar of fire which hee saieth they haue before them that he cannot perceiue that to make and constitute lawes in matters of circumstance for comelines and order according to the generall rules of the Scripture and not to binde the conscience is no adding to the word nor mixing Gods worship with mans inuentions he is much to be pittied And doubtles before this pillar of fire bee remooued which is not the heauenlie light of Gods spirite but a frantick presumption by which the diuell dooth delude men and blinde them with their swelling he shall neuer see well Some will say if these constitutions be not to binde the conscience of men why are men forced to keepe them Why should the discipline and censures of the Church driue men thereunto In déede this is that which the freedome of the Brownists can at no hand indure To answer this the reader must consider what is the binding of the conscience It is not to say simplie yee must for conscience sake doo it or yee are bounde for conscience sake to doo it for then all the humaine constitutions and lawes of princes may be saide to binde the conscience because Saint Paul willeth to obey them for conscience Rom. 13. But by binding the conscience is meant that such lawes are laid vpon the conscience to bee obserued as part of the worship of God when men are punished for not keeping them as contemning Gods worship then is the Christian libertie withstoode But when y e discipline censures of the Church doo compel men to obserue the lawes which in matters of comlines and order are made according to the rules of the Apostle they are not punished for dooing or not doing the things themselues but that by dooing that which is forbidden or refusing to doo that which is commaunded they disturb the peace bréede diuisions and offence disobey where they are commanded obedience these bee sinnes and for these men are to be punished This is where the orders be not against the word of God but fitte for edification And now to conclude about this matter all the Churches of God vnder heauen doe make such lawes such Canons and constitutions in matters of circumstance and by their discipline compell both Ministers and people to obey the same The Brownist alleageth against this not only the sentences Prouerbs 30. vers 5. 6 and Deut. 4. vers 12. 32. but also Reuela 22. vers 18. 19. Where the Lorde threatneth that he that shall adde to the words of that Prophesie he will put vpon him the Plagues written in that booke Tell me now Maister Greenewood doe ye yet condemne all Churches Ye do affirme that they which make anie lawes doe adde to the worde of God and alleage against them that God will put vpon them the plagues written in that booke which is a denouncing of the extreame wrath of God for there is the lake of fire set foorth If yee were not quite beside your selfe how could you thus hurle your dartes of extreame condemnation and strike all churches and yet when I tell yee of it crie out that I am a liing Prophet and will me to remember who is the father of vntrueths But least I may seeme to father that vpon the Churches which is farre from them I wil note somewhat out of the harmonie of confessions Section 17. The latter Heluetian confession saith Quod in Ecclesijs dispares inueniuntur ritus nemo Ecclesias existimet ex eo esse dissidentes That there are vnlike rites or ceremonies found in the Churches let no man iudge hereby that the Churches dissent And the confession of Bohemia hath Quare illi tantum ritus illaeque ceremoniae bonae seruari debent quae in populo Christiano vnicam veram fidem sincerúmque cultum Dei concordium charitatem veram atque Christianam se◠religiosam pacem aedificant Siue igitur ab episcopis siue a consilijs Ecclesiasticis aut à quibuscumque aucthoribus
separation from Caecilianus and those that claue to him The deuision grewe greater and greater they had assemblies and Bishops on Donatus part in processe of time in great number They condemned not only the Church at Carthage and the neighbour Churches in Aphrica as guiltie therewith but all Churches through the world as wrapped together in the guiltines of those Churches of Aphrica They pronounced them all polluted vncleane abominable and vtterlie fallen from the Couenant of God through the pollution of such as had committed sacrilege and were not seperated They said there were no Ministers of Christ no Sacraments so no true Church among them but heapes of wicked polluted sacrilegious persons whose teachers were all generations of traitors Iudasses persecutors of Gods Saints and that as many as would bee saued must seperate themselues and ioyne with the pure selected companie of Donatus And for these respects they baptized again all such as fell vnto them as not being baptized before but polluted with a prophane washing Now through the shew of burning zeale and stiffe rigorous seueritie in condemning sinne and by the vehement outcries which they made that the discipline was not duely executed in as much as the prophane were mingled together in the assemblies with y e pure and no seperation made many of the people not well settled and grounded in the trueth were terrified and turned vnto them taking them to be most zealous holie men and the onlie true Church in earth and with excéeding bitternesse condemned all other as abominable Idolaters and cursed traytors whose worship God abhorred It was before the daies of Augustine that this sect began and in his time was greatlie spread And when he wrote that it was against all equitie to condemne as they did at the first the whole world for the sinne of Caecilianus because if he were guiltie yet the Churches farre off knew not so much but might rather iudge him cléere being cléered in iudgement They maintained the matter to prooue that there were no true flocks nor pastors after another sort and did affirme that as the Church of Carthage and the Churches elsewhere in Aphrica were fallen from God by the pollution of the sacrilege of Caecilianus and other so all other Churches in the world were destroyed by the like sacrileges committed in the daies of persecution by wicked men among them whose sinnes were open and knowne and no seperation made For thus speaketh Parmenian a Donatist Bishop as Augustine doth set it downe in his first booke against him and third Chapter Dicit etiam Parmenianus hinc probari consceleratum fuisse orbem terrarum criminibus traditionis aliorum sacrilegiorum quia cum multa talia fuerint tempore persecutionis admissa nulla propterea facta est in ipsis prouincijs separatio populorum That is Parmenian also saith that from hence it is prooued that the world hath been together made wicked or hainouslie polluted with the crimes of treason and of other sacrileges because when many such things were done in the time of persecution there was no seperation of the people made for the same in the Prouinces Marke well this saying of Parmenian the Donatist for it doth expressie set downe the ground of Donatisme The words of Petilian another Donatist Bishop to prooue all the Ministers of the Churches to be but successors of traitors as Augustine doth report them in his second booke against him Chapt. 8. are many I will onely recite the chiefe of them This Petilian hauing before saide that he which is baptized by one that is dead his washing doth profite him nothing then procéedeth to shewe how farre as he saith an vnfaithfull traitor may be accompted dead while he liueth And for this be frameth a comparison betwéene Iudas and the Pastors of the Church condemning them as the worse For after he hath set forth that Iudas was an Apostle when he betraied Christ and spirituallie dead when he had lost the honour of an Apostle and as it was foretold by Dauid that another should haue his place so Matthias succéeded him in the Apostleship He would haue no foole here dispute that Matthias dare away triumph and not iniurie which by the victorie of Christ had the spoyle of the traitor Then he demandeth how canst thou by this déede challenge to thy selfe the office of a Bishop being the heire of a more wicked traitor Iudas Christum carnalem tradidit tu spiritualem furens Euangelium sanctum flammis sacrilegis tradidisti Iudas betraied Christ carnal thou spirituall being in furie thou hast deliuered the holie Gospell to the fire Iudas legislatorem tradidit perfidis tu quasi eius reliquias legem dei perdendā hominibus tradidisti Iudas betraied the lawgiuer to the wicked thou hast betraied as it were his reliques the lawe of God vnto mē to be destroied Si hominis mortui testamentū flammis incenderes nonne falsarius punireris quid de te ergo futurum est qui sanctissimam legem dei iudicis incendisti If thou shouldest burne the will of a dead man shouldest thou not bee punished as a falsifier what then shall become of thee which hast burnt the most holie lawe of GOD the Iudge Iudam facti vel in morte poenituit te non modò non poenitet verumetiam nequissimus traditor nobis legem seruantibus persecutor carnifex existis Iudas repented him of his deed at least in death but thou doest not onely not repent but also being a most wicked traitor remainest a persecutor and a tormentor of vs that keepe the lawe Cresconius a Grammarian one as it seemeth that taught some Grammar schoole tooke vpon him to write against Augustine in the defence of Petilian or rather of the whole Donatisme and he laieth to the charge of Caecilianus the vnpardonable sinne against the holie Ghost in betraying the scriptures to the persecutors vsing this argument Holie men of God deliuered them as they were led by the holie Ghost Augustine in the 4. booke against Cresconius Chapt. 8. Petilian though otherwise full of great bragging being verie vnwilling to haue open disputation in any open assembly of learned men vsed this arrogant speach Indignum est vt in vnum conueniant filij martyrum progenies traditorum It is an vnworthie thing that the sonnes of the Martyres and the generations of traitors should be assembled together Thus much may suffice for this poynt Where we see that the Donatists departed disorderlie out of the Church condemning it not for any poynt of doctrine for therein they did not disagree but for that many which in the time of persecution dissembled many which reuolted and to saue their liues did sacrifice to the Idolls many which deliuered the bookes of holie Scripture to bee burned and betraied the names of the brethren when the storme was ouer there was a sodaine calme the Emperour Constantine being become Christian such ioy in all Christian lands Christianitie magnified with such honour
there is no Church Then he sheweth further that the offence is iust and God must needs punish that there is such wounding of weake consciences but in this they offend as hee saieth that they knowe not how to keepe anie measure in being offended or omitting that clemencie which the Lord requireth they giue themselues wholie vnto immoderate seueritie And because they think there is no Church where there is not sound puritie and integritie of life through the hatred of wickednes they depart away from the lawfull Church while they thinke they turne a side from the faction of the wicked Then he proceedeth in answering their obiections they alleage that the Church of Christ is holie he willeth them also to vnderstand by the parables in the Gospell that the good and the bad are mixed together They erie out that it is a thing intollerable that the contagious pestilence of vices dooth in such violent raging sort ouerspread all hee setteth before them the vices that were in the Churches of Corinth and Galatia They obiect that Paul dooth will we eate not with anie called a brother which is of an vngodlie life Yea here they crie out that if it be not lawfull to eate common bread with such how should it be lawfull to eate with them the bread of the Lord He answereth that it is a great reproach in deede if dogges and swine bee admitted to haue place among the children of God yea it is also much greater if the sacred bodie of Christ be prostituted vnto them And where the Churches are well ordred they doo not keepe in their bosome the notorious wicked nor admit all without difference to that holie banquet but the pastors are not alwaies diligent sometime they fauour more than they ought or bee more remisse And sometime they cannot but are letted from exercising that seueritie which they would Now when the Church ceaseth to doo her duetie herein it is not for euery priuate man saith he to separate himselfe euery godly man is indeede to keepe himselfe from the fellowship of sinne but it is one thing to eschewe the fellowship of sinne and another for hatred thereof to renounce the Communion of the Church Then hee answereth further that Saint Paul willeth euerie one to examine himselfe when hee commeth to eate of that bread and if it were a wicked thing to communicate with the vnworthie Paul would certainelie haue willed vs to looke about least there should bee some in the multitude by whose vncleannes we might be defiled These things he hath in the fourteenth and fifteenth sections in the sixteenth section hauing shewed that the chiefe ringleaders in such separation are led with pride he willeth the godlie to consider that in a great multitude there are manie which are truelie holie and innocent before the eyes of the Lord which are hid from their sight that of those which seeme diseased or infected there are manie which doo not please or flatter themselues in their vices but being eftsones awakened with an earnest feare of God labour to amend That they must not iudge of a man for one fact when the holiest men doo sometime fall most grieuouslie That the Ministrie of the word and the participation of the Sacraments haue more force to gather a Church than that by the fault of certaine wicked men that whole power may vanish or come to none effect Finallie let them consider that in esteeming a Church the iudgement of God is of more waight and certaintie than the iudgement of man In the eighteenth section hee setteth forth how the holie Prophets of God did not separate themselues in those horrible and lamentable desolations which they describe when most of the people and the Priestes themselues were openlie wicked Thus may wee see that Master Caluine condemning the Brownists so seuerelie by the Scriptures they must either reuoke Brownisme in this point that the bad pollute the good and therefore separation to be made which he termeth sacrilegious treacherie or else condemne him not onelie with the Church of Geneua which he taught but also all other Churches that imbrace his writings and acknowledge him for a noble instrument of God Furthermore let the Brownists shew any one assemblie at this day in the World in which there bee not open sinners admitted to the Lords table and which sinne in great sinnes as either in pride selfe loue ambition couetousnes idlenes hatred enuie contention backbiting lying and in such like They say all are polluted and fallen away from the couenant where any that openlie sinneth is admitted to the holie Communion How can they say then that they doo not condemne all Churches vnder heauen Finallie when in their writings they affirme that prescript forme of prayer imposed is Idolatrie a bondage breaking christian libertie a thing most detestable they doo so farre condemne all Churches in as much as there is no one which hath not prescript forme of Prayer imposed And the Brownist which hath published in Print a defence of the same alleageth the extreame curse against those that adde to Gods word Reuel 22. and saith they adde which make Lawes in the Church in matters of circumstance or things indifferent Which in deede all the Churches doo and therefore hee layeth that extreame curse vpon all the reformed Churches let no man therefore be so simple as to imagine that the Brownists doo condemne but the English Churches when their extreame seueritie in condemning reacheth ouer all Now to the third thing obiected wherein they may seeme to differ from the Donatists namely that the Donatists did holde that the Sacraments or the efficacie of them doth depend vpon the worthines of the minister but the Brownists are not of that minde I answere that in this great and ranck poynt of Donatisme I can find no difference at all betwéen them and the Brownists and let the wordes and meaning of both be scanned and it shal appeare manifestly that they hold the selfe same thing neither more nor lesse like euen brethren The Brownists affirme that we haue neither worde of God nor Sacraments in our Church But demaund of them doth the Sacrament or the efficacie thereof depend vpon the worthines of the minister They will aunswere it doth not but yet it can be no Sacrament of Christ vnles hee be a minister of Christ that doth deliuer it If it bee saide vnto them Iudas was a most wicked man and our Sauiour calleth him a diuell yet was he a minister of Christ for the time and the baptisme he administred as effectual as the baptisme of any other They will replie and say that was so because the sinne of Iudas was secret they were not polluted by his vncleannes because they did not know it But he that is an open sinner cannot be a minister of Christ and such as receiue the Sacrament at his hand knowing his wickednes cannot but be partakers of his sinne and polluted by the same This wil they say is
compell men but rather inuite them Quodsi cogi per legem aliquem vel ad bona licuisser vosipsi miseri a nobis ad sidem purissimam cogi debuistis Sed absit absit a nostra conscientia vt ad nostram sidem aliquem compellamus If it were lawfull saith this Donatist that anie should by the Lawe be compelled yea euen vnto good things you wretches ought to bee compelled by vs to the most pure faith but farre be it farre be it from our conscience that we should compell anie vnto our faith chapt 83. Quid vobis est cum regibus seculi quos nunquam Christianit as nisi inuidos sensit What haue you to doo with the Kings of the Worlde which the Christianitie hath neuer felt but enuious against it Chapter 92. Compare now the doctrine of our Brownists and their sayings with these former of the Donatists and see if there bee anie difference They say Princes are not to make Lawes for Church matters Princes are not to reforme the Church by their authoritie Princes are not to compell their subiects to the true worship of God by penalties If Princes pleasures are to be attended where is the persecution wee speake of None of the godlie Kings of Iudea durit compell anie to the couenant The people of Christs Kingdome are spontanes such as come of their owne free accord c. It were too long and tedious to set foorth all the outcries of the Donatists their glorying in suffering persecutions for the trueth their accusations against the pastors of Christs Churche and the Princes while they sought to restraine their furie the one by Gods word the other by lawes that they persecuted and therefore could not be the true Church which as they say is persecuted but neuer persecuteth reade the epistle of Parmenian of Petilian and of Cresconius The Brownists are not behinde them an intch in this matter but crie out as fast of Antichristian persecutors boasting of their patience and sufferings calling themselues the persecuted remnant the poore afflicted c. Aug. answereth those Donatists at large I will recite but a little Cum phreneticus medicum vexet medicus phreneticum liget aut ambo inuicem persequuntur aut si persecutio quae malo sit non est non vtiq persequitur medicus phreneticum sed phreneticus medicum When the man that is in phrensie dooth vex the phisitian and the phisitian dooth binde him that is in phrensie either both doo persecute each other or else if that bee not a persecution which is done to the euill then verelie the phisitian dooth not persecute the phrantick or mad man but the phrantick or mad man dooth persecute the phisitian Against Cresconius Booke 4. Chapter 51. his application is that the penall Lawes of the Princes were as the bands of the Phisitian to binde the Phrensie and furious outrage of the Donatists And whereas they boasted of patience and woulde compell none He answereth that because they bee not able to resist so manie nations which were Catholike they gloried of patience that they compelled none to their part Hee then addeth Isto modo miluus cum pullos rapere territus non potuerit co lūbum se nominet After the same sort the Puttocke when he is fraid and can not snatch away the chickens may name himselfe a Doue For he doth demaund of them what they haue not done which they were able When Iulian the Apostata being Emperour enuying the peace of Christ shewed them fauour and graunted to them Churches what slaughters they committed Likewise he sheweth in many places what reuell their circumcellions made which in companies walking with clubbes and staues did spoile and beate such as light into their handes vsing moreouer a sauage crueltie in putting vineger and lime into mens eies when they had beaten them And verely what is it which men of excéeding intemperate heate will not doe if it bee once in their power against such as they shall iudge to bee but as vile Idolaters and persecutors of Christes truth The impatient heate of most Brownistes is not vnknowē but when the Kites for feare can not snatch vp the Chickens must professe the mekenes of Doues as to say weare Christes poore afflicted seruants we be meeke and patient we beare the crosse Where it is taught that priuate men are authorised to deale and furie aboundeth which things are among the Brownistes who is able to expresse the tragedies that would ensue if power were not wanting in thē the Princes may not stoppe their course and who shall then resist The Donatists abusing the scriptures in their plentifull allegations and finding that their grosenesse was detected much by the skill of artes found fault that any thing should be scanned by the rules of Logike The Brownistes are euen with them if not beyond In his first booke against Cresconius Chap. 14 Augustine reporteth the wordes of that Donatist thus Vestros Episcopos laudas quod nobiscum velut dialecticis nolint habere sermonem Thou doest commend your Bishoppes that they refuse to haue speech or conference with vs as being Logicians He answereth at large in shewing what Logicke is and the worthie and necessarie vse thereof in discussing matters of religion Browne in the preface of his booke which hee saith sheweth the life and manners of Christians calleth them sophisticall diuines which deale by the rules of Logicke The Brownistes with whome I deale charge the students of the Vniuersities as trained vp in vaine and curious Artes. And what other cause shall euer be shewed of so barbarous an errour but that they would not haue their matters tried by the rules which make manifest which is truth and which is falsehoode Thus haue I briefely laide open that the whole Donatisme is maintained by the Brownistes and therefore I haue rightly termed them the Donatistes of England An answere to Master Greenewood touching read prayer MAster Greenewood in the preface of his booke dooth shew that the reasons spread abroade in writing against read praier were his which I did not knowe before now and therefore bee taketh vpon him the defence of them He would seeme to haue found out such a deapth of spirituall wisdome touching the holie exercise of prayer and so reprooueth the grosenes of this age that wee must esteeme him for the aboundance of spirit as an other Montanus For whereas hee seemeth to charge this age onelie as grosse in this poynt in verie deede he accuseth all ages all Churches and all the learned teachers that haue beene since the Apostles so that in the gifts of the spirite he excelleth all Hee saieth hee could yet neuer see it set downe which is the true praier that onelie pleaseth God It is a strange thing hee hath neuer heard that whosoeuer asketh in faith whether it be with prescript forme or otherwise it is the onelie true praier that pleaseth God Hee saieth I haue flien vpon him with bitternesse of spirite and
sinne therefore they that vse it are no Church Haue ye said no more but that it is an hainous sinne Haue you forgotten all your former sayings of Idolatrie bondage breaking Christian libertie most detestable standing vnder Gods wrath I hold him no Anabaptist nor Donatist which from such spéeches concludeth no true Church For I neuer heard that the true Church doth stand vnder Gods wrath The next wordes are sore Abaddon is the father of such Prophets saith Maister Greenewood because I say the Brownists maintaine such a fréedome as that will haue nothing imposed by commaundement I pray ye tell me whether you be one of those which set out the brief summe of the profession And when I had written against it I would knowe if ye were one that made the defence or approoued the same Did yee not approoue of the answers that goe vnder the name of Henrie Barrow Imposed is put for an argument by it selfe in those writings and so noted with a figure Could the very word imposed be an argument by it selfe if any imposing by commaundement bee lawfull in Gods worship If the ciuill Magistrates haue power but to reuiew the lawes of Christ and to mooue men or stirre them vp to the more diligent keeping of the same may they then impose by commaundement And as you speake here of that which is not onely receiued but also by commaundement as though there were great waight in the words by commaundement I pray ye tell me then what force ye repose in the words imposed and by commaundement when ye oppose them against Christian freedome Tell me also whether yee denie not that any Canons and constitutions made in Synods in matters variable are to be imposed by commandement If they be what is the reason that you Brownists when yee crie out against Church gouernment as it is in England speake in generall against Canons And a little after in this your booke ye denie all power of making lawes in things indifferent terming it an adding to Gods word and alleaging against it the extreame curse of God I graunt the Churches power is limitted by the word in making such lawes and so is the power of Princes There hath béen much sayd alreadie touching the Lords Praier and other prescript formes in the Scriptures but yet here come in newe reasons if I may so call them which are voide of reason Houtos is the same that the Hebrew Coh after this manner I answere that this hath béen dealt in before where ye must vnsay somewhat againe or else the words of the Scripture now written are not the words of the Lord but the like Further because Christ saith when ye pray if he willed we should say ouer y e words then should we euer when we pray say them To this I answere that respecting the rules for matters when ye pray when is as much as to say whensoeuer ye pray because we may not depart from those matters conteined in the general petitions But if we respect withall the prescript forme of words there is a double consideration to be had for in them selues they bee most excellent perfect and full and so brieflie doo containe the whole summe and substance of all thinges which we ought to craue of God as that nothing is wanting But our mind is not able so largelie or vnto such depth at one instant to spread or extend it selfe in desire as to bee mindfull of euery particular therein conteined And also we are more mooued as seuerall matters of néede doo presse vs to craue them particularlie Hereupon it doth followe that as on the one part it were agreat iniurie and hindrance that any man should binde vs when any particular néede vrgeth to begge reliefe onelie in the generall forme which includeth many things and not suffer vs to expresse the very particulars and singulars so on the other part to binde vs alwaies in such sort to the seuerall particulars that we may not at all vse the generals is very absurd and a disgrace to those most excellent petitions For by this it must needes followe that I may not say Let thy Kingdome come or forgiue vs our trespasses as we forgiue them that trespas against vs vntill the Brownists disprooue this he is fully conuict For if I may vse one petition of the generall heads when I pray I may vse anie one if any one then all The next argument which is brought is to this effect that if we be cōmaunded to say those words then should we sin in vsing any other forme for those being in y e best forme we are bound alwaies to bring the best sacrifice we haue or els we are accursed This reason I haue fully answered in that which went before for I haue shewed in what respect it is the most excellent absolute forme the best and can by no meanes without great absurditie yea wicked impietie be reiected withall what is necessarie and fit for vs. Now for conclusion let the Reader iudge whether I haue more need to leaue of as he saith my popish dreames or he his spirituall fantasies I am farre from maintaining that our Sauiour or his Apostles did stint or bynde men vnto certaine wordes which of necessitie they must vse and none other but this is the thing which the Brownistes must ioyne issue in with me whether I may not pray saying let thy kingdome come or if I may so vse the prescript forme of wordes in one petition whether I may not in any and so in all And heere let the Reader obserue that Maister Greenewood crying out for freedome complayning of a tradition that bringeth our libertie into bondage hee doth him selfe take away freedome and woulde lay a bondage vpon men and vpon the Churches For it is to lay a yoake of bondage when men will restraine that which God hath left free to bee vsed as shal be most conuenient and profitable for edification as to follow a prescript forme or to reade praying Among the Iewes in the time of the Law God tied them to the Temple and vnto certaine set howers for the Euening and Morning sacrifice but in this we are set free in the Gospell For I may lawfullie goe to the Temple to heare the word and to be partaker of the Sacraments with the assemblie and I may lawfullie frequent other places where the publike worship is The Churches may appoint the same howres for there meetings that were vnder the law if it be conuenient and they may appoint other if it shal be more fitte hee that in these shall take away the freedome which is giuen to the Churches doth lay a yoake of bondage In like case prescript forme of prayer to vse praying being an helpe to the weake and a thing sanctified of God and left free to the Church as neede shall require he that denieth that free vse doth lay a yoake of bondage And so I charge Maister Greenewood here to doe In the next place
it of necessitie seeing men are excommunicate and deposed for not obseruing it or as some verie ignorantlie vse to say if it be a thing indifferent why is it not left indifferent for men to vse or not to vse I answere that which is a thing indifferent God commaundeth it shall be done when it is conuenient and for edification and therefore when the Church doth appoynt or ordeine it rightly he that breaketh it wilfullie breaketh the commandement of God And so on the other side when it falleth out not to be conuenient and the Church dooth alter it hee that will now obserue it with a resisting minde doth like wise offend against the rule of Gods word I neuer doubted but that by neâ—essary consequence it is to be drawen from the doctrine of the scriptures that prayer is to be made before and after the word preached but I speake of a commaundement in expresse wordes therefore the places are cited here by the Brownist to no purpose And all the rest of his words that follow are either in matters wherin we agree or such as he collectetth from his owne ignorance and which are answered before The next argument is Read prayers were deuised by Antichrist and maintaine superstition and Idole ministerie c. Here the Brownist if he would at all speak to the purpose shoulde prooue that the very reading a prayer when one prayeth is the deuise of Antichrist maintaineth superstitioÌ„ an Idole ministrie But he flieth dealeth about the matter of leiturgies saying he hath heard the Pope woulde haue approoued ours if it might be receiued in his name If master Greenwoods newes from Rome were true which hee heard the matter were not great for the Pope will approoue the Lords prayer the commaundements and articles of the faith but he wil expound them as it pleaseth him The Pope also to wind in himself wil approoue in shew many things which he misliketh so they be not directly against his crowne and dignitie And it is to be considered that the controuersies betweene vs and the Papists are not about the matters which we are to begge in prayer There is no likelyhood that the Pope made such offer because he knoweth we holde in the substance and grounds of the faith that which quite ouerthroweth him but if he did men may see by these things which I haue noted that master Greenwood doth but shift and trifle He confesseth leiturgies were before Antichrist and yet saith he was the deuiser See the grauitie of this man he is sore afraide that hee should here againe be said to condemne all Churches because they haue read prayer and therfore he saith his arguments are falsely wrested Answere your selfe then and tell vs what ye holde them which receiue the deuise of Antichrist Why crie yee not out of the marke of the beast It is a pitifull thing to see in what a case the Brownist is For he wil not coÌ„demne the Churches and yet after he hath set foorth what leiturgie is and affirmed that the new Testament is Christs leiturgie he alleageth that they be accursed that adde thereto and holdeth prescript forme of prayer an adding Let him now be asked is the curse layd vpon the true Churches he will say no. Then prescript forme is either no adding to Christs Testament or else they be vnder the curse that vse it He saith leiturgies are another gospel Then all Churches haue receiued another gosepl The wordes that follow haue bin answered before Where I sayd there would sundrie inconueniences growe for want of prescript forme of publike prayer After he hath set downe that Christ is a perfect law giuer and that the word of God is sufficient he tearmeth it blasphemie to say there would be inconueniences without leiturgies then all the Churches committe blasphemie whether doe ye yet condemne them or not This is from his grosenes which doth not se that Christs Testament is perfect and yet there are things commaunded in generall rules which are variable as I haue before shewed for circumstances of time place persons sitting kneeling c. He saith there can be no particular lawes made without breaking the lawe of God as though the Church were not to see what in these is fit and conuenient vpon euerie occasion and time and for that time to establish the same But euerie man to doe as he shall like or shal take the generall rule of order and decencie for men will not agree this is from rules of order to drawe confusion Now this great deuine saith I haue made a faire hande in affirming leiturgies to be but a matter of order or conueniencie for edification Seeing as hee saith it is all the worship we haue this commeth from him that hath the beautie of Sion as he boasteth which the inchaunters of Egipt cannot iudge of This commeth from him that with his fellowes hath the cloude betweene them and vs and the pillar of fire before them as he speaketh in the next wordes Because I say the prescript forme and the reading are but for order he concludeth that I confesse the prayer is but a matter of order or conueniencie ye say I haue made a faire hand But I tell ye master Greenwood if ye should goe into the Schooles and reason so in earnest the young boyes would be readie to hisse ye foorth as a non proficiens and howe faire hand should you make then they will not beleeue ye haue it from your pillar of fire but out of that dark cloud of your ignorance which is betweene your selfe and the light of the trueth Now wheras I said y e Church hath power to ordain according to the word of God to appoint such orders in matters of circumstance about publike prayer preaching of the worde and administring of the Sacraments as shall most fitly serue for edification and then these orders being established by publike authoritie the discipline and censures of the Church are to driue men to the obseruation of the same that stubbornely break them Here the poore Brownist layeth open himselfe againe to be as blinde as a beetle he will needes haue it to be papisticall mudde and that I am in an Apostacie Because there can as he saith no other lawes be made in matters of circumstance than Christ himselfe hath made that to ordaine lawes in the Church is to plead for vnwritten verities and to make the law of God vnsufficieÌ„t It is an adding to the word of God which is execrable pride All the Popes trinkets might bee brought in by the same ground This is the foundation of Poperie and Anabaptistrie to giue libertie to make lawes in the worship of God And by your iudgement which would haue men driuen to obserue them our Sauiour Christ was an Anabaptisticall Schismatike that would not himselfe nor his disciples obey the traditions of the Elders Thus speaketh this Brownist But what beastlie ignorance doth he bewray and that in sundrie poynts and with what
desires are sundrie one mooued more in one thing another in another thing some come more fitter to pray for this and some for that It is most certaine that neither the prescipt forme nor the preacher can see into these seuerall estates of mens mindes consciences or to the desires which they are most fit and prepared to expresse neither is that so much to bee regarded seeing that which should be fittest for one part should not be so fit for another but they must euery one frame himselfe to pray for al things which the assemblie doth pray for which are necessarie to be praied for at al times and of all persons Shall any man say I am not prepared to begge these things therefore they be not fit for me Let him not be so wicked but stirre vp himselfe rather to begge them with the congregation Shall any be so foolish as to say wee knowe these things before I am not mooued with them men for the most part do but repeat them of custome Nay rather let him striue against such impietie and say the things are not any thing the lesse precious which wee craue because wee heare them often or knowe them before or that many abuse them and therefore we indeuour to begge them earnestlie with all faithful ones in the assemblie seeing they bee such as are needfull to be praied for In the rest I leaue the reader to compare his booke with my former The last Argument The prayers of such Ministers and people as stand vnder a false gouernment are not acceptable Those Ministers which stand subiect to the Bishops and their Courts are subiect to a false gouernment and to Antichrist I did referre the answere of these to the third and fourth accusation but yet I did take some exception as my booke sheweth The Brownist in replying here is in great distemper I will let all his words passe and come to the matter I alleaged out of the Epistle to the Romanes Chapt. 7. that S. Paule was held in some bondage and therefore that Ierusalem from aboue is not in this world so free but that she and all her children are in some spirituall bondage At this he did crie out of Atheisme carnal Libertinisme affirming that S. Paule neuer continued captiue vnto sinne after regeneration neither gaue place vnto euill thoughts Where I haue iustly charged him with very foule matter which now labouring to wash away he doth bemire himselfe First he crieth out of wrong in diuers things without any cause Such as do touch the question of gouernment and the blasts he bloweth that way I doo here omit because his fellowes doo make replie as he mentioneth vnto those things and I must then answere Onely I deale with him now touching the place to the Romanes He willeth if I haue any common honestie to let his former answer be seene I promise ye it will be small to your credite and honestie let whosoeuer see it seeing ye doo in shameles manner crie out of wresting and I knowe not what Against my reason out of the words of Saint Paule denie if ye haue the forehead these to bee your words And now say you that Scripture which the Apostle hath set downe in the anguish of his soule concerning the inward strife of the flesh and the spirit you shamefully peruert to your owne condemnation except you repent for Paule neuer continued captiue vnto sinne after his regeneration neither gaue place vnto euill thoughts Paule speaketh there of the vnperfectnes of his owne righteousnes which maketh the lawe deadlie vnto him I will thinke you a fleshlie Libertine if you recāt not this doctrine What Atheist would thus haue defended his owne grosse sinnes Thus farre go your wordes and now let such as haue knowledge iudge what wrong I haue done ye Let them looke vpon that which I haue published and see whether I haue wrested your words or set downe any vnsound poynt of doctrine as you would yet accuse me and doo importunatelie crie out but now your words are in the light and your answere also which ye cannot vse such shifts to excuse You lay open the disagreement betweene you and me First you cannot agree to this that the regenerate may be sayd to stand in any bondage to sinne You cannot conclude against it but bring in another saying and so draw a conclusion And that is how I also affirme that one standing in bondage to open knowne sinne may in that estate bee accepted and communicated with as the seruant of Christ by outward profession both at one instant which is as to say wee may bee to mans sight the seruant of the diuell and the seruant of Christ both at one time by outward profession So none should bee excommunicate none without the world and the Church light and darknes Christ and Belial should bee mingled together Well then I aske this question both of your selfe and of your fellowes whether there be any one of ye that can stand foorth and say I see no sinne in my selfe but so soone as I haue espied I ouercome and am not at all led by it Tell me further whether ye haue not this that ye may say there is euil alwayes in ye which you cannot be rid of and that doth holde ye fast and presse ye Do ye not leaue the good vndone and commit euill and such euil as is alwayes present in ye Doe not ye find great sinnes that ye stand vnder as not able to come out of If any Brownist shall deny he is such or in this estate he can be but a proud hypocrite If yee confesse it what doe you but confesse some bondage Let me aske ye further is there any of ye which dare stand foorth and say I am not a sinner in the sight of men I stand not holden vnder any outward sinne the Brownist must aunswere these questions for he holdeth that men can not outwardly appeare sinners and be the seruants of Christ at one instant What beastly geare is this There is sinne that appeareth in the best men at al times in gesture in words in deedes in negligence in wants yea a thousand waies who is able to indure y e trial of Gods law euen in that which outwardly doth appeare in him for an howre And will yee cast foorth all in whome there appeareth sinne that he dooth abide in The grose open sinners I confesse which contemne and giue offence are to be cast foorth but are those which abide within at any time free from open sinne couetousnesse is a foule sinne so is pride selfe loue and wrath Doe all Brownists so fully shine in brightnes before men that in none of these nor any other they can bee discerned to be sinners Doth all vertue shine foorth in them And touching that which I charged you withall looke better now vpon your owne speech If there bee any modestie in ye it will be hard for ye to deny but that I haue layde no
more to your charge than your owne plaine wordes For are not these wordes plaine Paule neuer continued captiue vnto sinne after his regeneration neither gaue place vnto euill thoughts But now you make a protestation that you haue euer been free from such an heresie and your last writing did testifie much Touching your writing it was both last and first except your bare argument and there is no heede to take what ye say for your matter commeth foorth as the streame doth turne the wheele euen vnto contrary motions When before the rage of the streame turned the wheele to vtter the freedome of the Church then it must bee in such perfection that the regenerate is not partly held captiue vnto sinne nor giueth place vnto euill thoughts Now when the wheele must haue a contrarie motion to purge your selfe there commeth as violent a streame that way For here ye say the children of God after regeneration may commit any sinne except the sin against the holy ghost And you also affirme that they may commit sin of presumption and obstinate sinne In my iudgment you had neede of some fauourable exposition of your speech The regenerate doubtles as we haue examples in the scriptures may fall into grieuous sinnes and doe through frailtie but that it may be of presumption and obstinacie you must declare how filthie incest is not the sinne against the holy ghost nor if a man kill his Father Mother or Children No more is witchcraft and familiaritie with diuels Is it your meaning that the regenerate may of presumption and obstinacie committe these If not why doe you vtter such wordes and not make them plaine I spake vpon the place to the Romaines that the freedome of the Church in this world is but in parte and not perfect he cried out a fleshly libertie If I should haue spoken as he speaketh here what would he haue saide But hee now he is afraide least while hee hath washed himselfe ouer cleane from Anabaptisme he should ouerthrow Brownisme as indeede he doth And that is the cause whie hee tempereth his speech in the wordes following that although in Gods fight obstinat sinners may be regenerate and so his children yet not to men by outward profession but are to be cast foorth which I doe not denie and then for the least bowing downe to a false gouernement they are to be cast foorth This I omite as not the question betweene him and me and leaue his words to be considered of the reader But where he procéedeth in reasoning against me as if I held that obstinate grose sinners are not teo bee cast foorth by excommunication I maruaile from whence he can gather that But let vs come to S. Paule againe and see how master Greenwood excuseth his owne speech and condemneth mine It is out of doubt that as God is immortal doth begette by immortal seede as S. Peter speaketh so all which are borne of GOD and haue therefore receiued the spirite of regeneration can neuer loose that spirit Whosoeuer is borne of God doth not committe sinne because his seede abideth in him neither can he sinne because he is borne of God 1. Iohn 3. v. 9. From hence master Greenwood holdeth himselfe cleered and may well say that S. Paule after regeneration stoode not in any bondage to sinne nor gaue place vnto euill thoughts because he euer repented and the spirit of God in him did not nor could not cōsent or giue place vnto sinne His meaning then is this that the regeneration which is from the spirite cannot be in bondage to sinne and the graces of the spirite cannot consent or giue place vnto euill thoughts This is most true vnlesse a man will be so wicked as to holde that the grace of God may be in bondage and consent to the worke of the deuill If this had been the matter in question betweene vs and he had said no more it could not be reprooued But he proceedeth further and chargeth me with error that when S. Paule reasoneth of the olde man or corruption in him I will needes cōclude it of the new man or inner man or of the whole man My wordes are extant in print let all the Brownists sconne them and see whether they can without falsehood and lying gather from them that I conclude that the new man or inner man which is y e grace of regeneration is in bondage to sin or doth consent vnto euill thoughts the whole course of my wordes doth lay open the contrarie For I shew how Paule touching the inner man consented to the law of God And that in his minde that is in the regeneration he did serue the law of God What is it then which maketh master Greenwood so boldlie to accuse and so falsely Euen the mother of headdy boldnes and much falshood palpable ignorance For where I stand to affirme that paule a regenerate man stood yet in some captiuitie and bondage vnto sinne He doth imagine it will followe that I affirme the regeneration to be in bondage vnto sinne because Paul is the whole man and he that concludeth vpon the whole concludeth vpon euerie part In deede this is it which hath deceiued the Brownist and by which he thus laboureth to seduce others that where the Scripture calleth the regeneration or the graces of the spirit the new man and the inner man as it calleth the corruption of nature the olde man and the bodie of sinne he vnderstandeth it as though the person himselfe who is regenerate were called the new man or the inner man which is farre wide for the graces of the spirite the worke of the spirite the regeneration called the inner man are one thing and the man himselfe which is regenerat another The bodie and soule are Paul the regeneration called the inner man or the graces of the Spirite are not Paul himselfe but in Paul The soule bodie are Paul the corruption through concupiscence called the olde man is not Paul himselfe but is in Paul because the regeneration shall neuer be extinguished the regenerate are reckoned and esteemed after it not that the regeneration itselfe is either the man or a part of the man Dauid was a man regenerate he committed adulterie and murther the soule and bodie of Dauid sinned whole Dauid doth acknowledge himselfe a sinner that is he was a sinner both in bodie and soule and yet the regeneration the seede of God in him the graces of the Spirite which were as coles of fire for the time couered in the ashes did not sinne nor consent vnto euill thought Paul a regenerate man when he saith Autos ego I my selfe in the minde serue the lawe of God but in the flesh the lawe of sinne calleth not the regeneration I my selfe but his soule and bodie which were Paul then the bodie and soule of Paul in the minde that is so farre as they were regenerate did serue the lawe of God The same bodie and soule of Paul in