subject to the Higher Powers it doth not bid us to be subject to the will of those who are in highest places But two or three specious words serv'd the turn this was chiefly to seduce the Kings own Friends if it were possible Those that had a Loyal Soul here was a bait for them you were fighting for to make the King great and glorious though 't was against his will and for his Authority against his Person and he was on your side in his Political though not in his Personal capacity and so if they lov'd the King they might join with you and no doubt but those goodly pretences deluded then many a well-meaning Soul But then if people were not for the King to be sure they would be for the Lord and upon that account they might and they must join with you for you were fighting the Lords Battels warring for Sion against Babylon this was the grand cheat whereby the Nation was deluded Had the Parliament-Officers gone about and told the people that the King encroacht upon their Priviledges and acted against the Fundamental Laws of this Kingdom the generality of men was not so well read in the ancient Statutes and Charters of this Realm as to know whether it was so or no and so 't is likely they had been very slack in engaging in a doubtful general But you knew well enough that the people would fight for God therefore you made him a party in the case and then called upon them to help the Lord against the Mighty to help to thrown down Antichrist and to set up Christ and those that came to your call were rewarded besides the holy Plunder with good words flatteries high and lofty titles they were the Saints the Godly the Chosen the Lambs Followers and the precious Ones and so you made them active in their wickedness by making their deluded Consciences to warrant their accursed doings Though the way was besprinkled with bloud yet that the people might not be deterred from doing Gods work T. Palmer p. 13. they were told that God had seen it good to bring Christ into the Kingdom that bloudy way and then who would be afraid of bloudshedding upon such an account But this hath been sufficiently proved when I spoke of your cruelties and made it appear that the War was Religious and not Civil and that for the good of Souls you may do what you lift as well as the Pope Now I desire only to mention a few more of your juggling tricks and then I shall endeavour to say somewhat in defence of those Authorities I have cited out of your Books p. 1 13 Mr. Palmer resolves that grand Query How shall I know that the Parliaments Cause is Gods Cause and those that join with them more Gods people than on the other side in this manner Alas it is the plainest thing in the world look to the words of Christ John 10.5 and 44. My Sheep know my Voice c. Now do but consider which of the new-raised Forces come nearest to this Rule who is it that submits to the Word and Rule of God who set up the work of Reformation who is desirous to preserve the people of God Was not he an excellent Casuist to make your pretences and doings an argument to prove that your War against the King was just Much like him that said it is and hath been the design and practice of Jesus Christ to break all Kingdoms that oppose him Th. Good 1645. p. 43. and oppress his Saints As much as to say that God pulled down the King because he opprest Christ and did not favour the Saints by which Rule the best cause is condemned if it be unsuccessful and well-fare the Turk and all the wicked as long as they prosper according to this we have seen before that Providence was your Guid and Captain it led you and did all things for you and so it came to pass that the worst of your doings were charged upon God Jehovah-Jireh pag. 65. The Prentices and Porters were stimulated and stirr'd up by Gods Providence thousands of them to petition the Parliament for speedy redress And Mr. Will. Jenkins in his Conscientious Queries and Submission to the then present Power 1651. useth only the Turkish Argument of good success to prove that the prosperous Rebels were to be obeyed as lawful Superiours and that by charging all that had been done upon God and Providence pag. 2. Whether the stupendious Providences of God manifested among us in the destruction of the late King and his Adherents in so many pitcht Battels and in this Nations universal forsaking of Charles Stuart and the total overthrow of him and his Army whether by these Providences God hath not plainly removed the Government from Charles Stuart and bestowed it upon others as ever he removed and bestowed any Government by any Providence in any Age Whether a refusal to yield Obedience and Subjection to this present Gouernment be not a refusal to acquiesce in the wise and righteous pleasure of God and a flat breach of the fifth Commandment Therefore he saith in his Humble Petition That he looks upon it as his duty to the then Authority to yield all active and cheerful Obedience in the Lord even for conscience sake as though their prosperous wickedness could give them a just title to their Usurpation Another would have it believed that the Saints were victorious because of Christ being with them and their having a Commission from him to act as they did Joh. Owen 1659. p. 22. saying That the Saints and the seeret ones shall work destruction and that this feeble Generation shall be as a Lion from the presence of Christ amongst them Christ saith he assigns that to them which is his own proper work let men take heed how they provoke this Lion for then be will not lie down until he cat of the prey and drink of the bloud of the slain As though it had been by the order and power of Christ that the Lion or the wild Beasts had filled all the Nation with bloud and slaughter Then in stead of teaching the people to obey the Precepts of the Gospel Charity Humility Meekness Obedience to the King c. you would have them mind the secret intentions of God and set forward that work which his Providence had begun as you said which was called Generation-work a phrase and a Doctrine still in use amongst you It is the duty of the Saints saith one to observe what the way of God is in the time of their Generation Jâ—r Burr 1643. p. 2. to see what Name of God is most conspicuous in his administration and accordingly to sanctifie that Name of his Nothing can be more pregnant with delusions and evil consequences than this Afterwards when in the carrying on of the designs in hand the Kingdom was filled with bloud and confusion that the people might not see how they were gull'd you
make themselves blind that they may be led by those that pretend to Infallibility and a supreme Authority in things of Faith As for the Decisions of your Popes and Councils it hath been observed by learned men of ours that they are also subject to mis-interpretation and that they have not been able so much as to compose any one of those Differences that have been and are still amongst you And indeed why should not God speak as plain as the Pope in what is absolutely necessary to be known Is it because he is not able or because he is not willing we should know the truth But Friend whilst you tax the Scripture with obscurity and make the people think 't is a dangerous Book see whether you do not give the lie to God himself who saith Ps 19 7 8. The Law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul the Testimony of the Lord is sure making wise the simple according to Rome it should have been making the simple to err The Statutes of the Lord are right rejoycing the heart the commandment of the Lord is pure enlightning the eye not blinding or darkning the eye Psal 119 105. In another place Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path Could any thing be more express against the charge of obscurity 2 Cor. 4.3 4. And so S. Paul saith If our Gospel be hid it is hid to them that perish in whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine unto them It seems the Gospel hath a light that shines unto men and the devil endeavours to blind them that they may not see it and whether the Pope be not an useful instrument to that effect let them judge that are not yet quite blind Sure if there was so great a danger in reading the Scriptures God would not have commanded his people so absolutely to study his Law Christ would not have preached to the multitudes for his words might be misinterpreted as well spoken as written and the Apostles should not have directed their Epistles to all the people of Corinth Ephesus c. We should rather have been forbidden searching the Scriptures and sent to his Holiness to know what we must believe and do P. Sir you are tedious in your Reasons and Proofs and whereas I cite only one of our approved Doctors at a time and that in few words you bring me I do n't know how many places of Scripture I had rather you would tell me what Luther or the Church of Geneva have resolv'd in these Controversies G. 'T would be to no purpose for we regard not their opinions nor those of any private men but as far as they agree with the truth Our Church is founded upon that Catholic and unchangeable truth which God hath revealed in the Sacred Books and which hath been and is still entertain'd by all those that own the Fundamentals of Christianity Therefore as I have told you 't will be the shortest way for me to back those Doctrins of our Church which oppose any of yours by the authority of Gods Revelations his most Holy Word which is a sufficient foundation for us to ground our faith upon P. As far as I can see you are run a great way off from us for we as many as own the Pope to be the Head and Monarch of the Church never mind what the Scripture saith we follow blind-fold the Judgment of our Church as a most infallible guide Bellar. de Rom. Pont. l. 4. c. 4. We believe that neither the Pope nor the particular Church of Rome can err in things of Faith Non solum Pontifex Romanus non potest errare in fide sed neque Romana particularis Ecclesia No Sir take it from Bellarmin Bellar. de Eccles l. 3. c. 14. It is absolutely impossible that the Church should err in any thing whether it be necessary or not Nostra est sententia Ecclesiam absolute non posse errare nec in rebus absolute necessariis nec in aliis G. And you Sir take it from experience that the Church of Rome could and hath greatly erred in many things if it be an error to make huge additions to the antient Creeds and to go directly against the Word of God And though it be impossible that ever the Universal Church should forsake and deny the saving truths of Christian Religion because of the Promise of Christ Matth. 16.18 Yet any one particular Church or Society of Christians though never so great may err and that in Fundamentals as we know of some Pseudo-Councils that have broach'd or confirm'd damnable Heresies And accordingly the Scripture saith Rom. 3.4 Let God be true and every man a liar the Bishop of Rome himself is not excepted And doubtless if the Church of Rome was infallible and the only guide that can lead us to heaven God who hath revealed to us the way to happiness would not have omitted so essential a thing But instead of a command wholly to rely on the judgment of the Pope speaking ex Cathedra we are commanded to prove all things 1 Thess 5 2â— â— Joh. â— 1 and to hold fast that which is good and again to try the spirits whether they be of God because many false Prophets are come out into the world Now how shall we try them but by the Word of God and if we find you do not follow it why should we any longer follow you Find me as many Texts out of Gods Wordâ— to prove that your great Bishop is infallible and that we are all bound to believe every thing he saith as I have produc'd already for the Divine Authority of Scripture and its sufficiency to bring us unto Salvation and then we 'll weigh them together and my faith shall follow the heavier Scale But when we prove and demonstrate that you err and go directly against Scripture for you to come and say that it is impossible because you are infallible and free from all error is to my thinking a very odd and unsatisfactory answer P. Well if you talk of Scripture till to morrow I am sure ours is the Antient Catholic Church without the which there is no salvation But your Religion is a new upstart you cannot shew me where it was and the Professors of it two hundred years ago G. As for the Professors where they were and that there were many even in the highth of Popery is a long Historical labour but ready done to my hand by several learned men the Author of Catalogus testium Verit. Abbot Vsher Fox White c. They were in the Eastern and Greec Churches much larger than that of Rome they were amongst you some declar'd and marty'd for it some for peace sake living in the Communion of your Church and some conceled for fear of your cruelty sighing in secret for Liberty and
Reformation But you may satisfie your self fully in their Books As for our Religion It was where it had been above a thousand years in the Holy Scripture And suppose what is utterly false that soon after its being written all Christian Churches had been so corrupted as to own fifteen hundred years together those Errors which now are amongst you yet still the Scripture had been the same as much to be obeyed and followed as if it had always been so 2 King 22. When Josiah had sound the Book of the Law he did not fling it by because it had been hid and neglected during the reign of Manasseh and Amon his Fathers but he caused it to be read before all the people Ibid. 23. that they might observe what was conteined in it So now we have the Holy Scriptures read and preached to us we must not reject them to follow the Customs of some of our Fore-Fathers in whose time they were hid and disregarded for they are as much the Rule of Faith as if they had never been disown'd But I say farther that our Religion was in those Churches in the East and South which never own'd Popery and even amongst you our Religion was professed you believed all along those three Creeds which you and we do still retein which contein the Articles of our Faith but not the new additions which are particular to Rome The Popes universal Supremacy and his Infallibility Transubstantiation Worshipping of Images Purgatory Indulgences c. These are neither in Scripture nor in the first Councils nor in the Writings of the Antient Fathers not so much as in your Creeds an evident mark of their novelty but in the late Councils and Constitutions of the Popes We confess indeed that there is an universal Church out of which there is no salvation according to that known saying of S. Cyprian Deum non potest c. He can be none of Gods children who is not a son of the Church But that Church is the Christian not the Roman Church and to know which is the Christian Church or which is the purest of Christian Churches for they are all Christian in some measure that own Christ we must not consult humane Histories for they cannot inform us of that and if they could we must not build our faith upon mens report De Sacra l. 2. c. 21. Bellarmin saith of humane Histories Faciunt tantum bumanam fidem cui falsam subesse potest that they only beget a human faith which may be erroneous Wherefore in the Controversie betwixt us which is the purest Church we must not search old Records and Chronicles to see which was the oldest the most visible or the most large and flourishing Church that is not the Question and if it were still human Histories cannot be the ground of a Christian Faith but we must examin which agrees best with Holy Scripture which we all acknowledge to be the Word of God for no doubt the true Church wherein Salvation may be had is that which holds that Doctrin which God himself hath reveled to Mankind whatever her condition may have been in times past P. There may be something considerable in what you say but you Heretics have strange cunnings and subtilties to justifie your Opinions and yet still for all you have said you are no better than Rebels against your spiritual Sovereign you are Schismatics undutiful Children that have forsaken your Mother the Church The true and only Church wherein Salvation is to be obtein'd guided and governed by the Vicar of Christ upon earth our holy Father the Pope Vna est tantum Ecclesia sub regimine unius Christi in terris Vicarii Romani Pontificis Bellar. de Eccl. l 3. c. 2. But pray do not make such a tedious Discourse as you have just now G. Good Sir sometimes short Questions cannot be answered in few words I could propose one to you much like that as you put to me which I believe would take a great deal of your time to answer that is Where your particular Religion your sacrificing of the real and corporal body and bloud of Christ for the sins of the living and the dead your Worshipping Images and Saints and making them your Intercessors your Purgatory Indulgences c. Where was all that in the time of Christ and his Apostles Whereabout can it be found in Scripture or in the antient Creeds or in the four first General Councils or in the three or four first Centuries But I will not put you to so long and impossible a Task As for our forsaking the Communion of the Church of Rome we were absolutely bound and in a manner forc'd to do it because of the many errors which had crept and been brought into it by the Ignorance Pride Avarice and Ambition of the late Popes of Rome and their Partizans and which were confirm'd by your Church and defended with that violence that it was death to any man to speak in the least against them Now you know 't is a Rule agreed on of all sides that he is not guilty of Schism that separates but he that gives a just cause of Separation wherfore I retort the charge upon you of being Schismatics except you can prove by the Word of God those Doctrins of yours we have rejected to be Divine and Orthodox for we have left your Church upon this account that you had perverted the truth of God and added many false opinions to it which ye impos'd upon the people as if they had been Articles of Faith And we find it in Scripture Ro. 16.17 Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the Doctrin which ye have learned and avoid them 't is not said except it be the Church of Rome And in another place Though we or an angel from heaven preach unto you beyond or over and above in the Greec 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the vulgar praeterquam quod what we have preached Gal. 1.8 let him be accursed the Pope himself you see is not excepted Again we have left the Communion of your Church because it was Schismatic itself in that it had forsaken the Doctrin taught and believed in the Primitive Church We have come out of Rome to return into the more antient and universal Church We have left the Pope to follow Christ and his Apostles and we have forsaken you no farther than you had forsaken the truth The antient Creeds the first Councils many good and Fundamental Doctrins we hold together in these we hold Communion with you We reject your Communion only in those new Doctrins which ye have superadded to the antient and divine Faith of Christians And so likewise we rebel not against the Pope only we set God above him I 'll still acknowledge him to be a Bishop and the Patriarch of the West and perhaps I had been civil enough never to have disputed his Infallibility and spiritual Sovereignty though I find nothing