Iudges and their sentence pronounced against Vdal but also to maintaine and iustifie their vpright and good dealing therein It may seeme strange that lawe should not haue strength sufficient to defend it selfe against the malice of these men But seeing the vigour thereof is either dulled or abated and men suffered to declaime against Iudges lawes let vs assay whether with reason argument we can defend lawe A matter albeit hard where the readers are such as repugne against lawe and are led forth without reason yet very easie to be effected where those that shall iudge vnderstand both lawe and reason vpon confidence therefore of indifferent discrete and wise mens iudgement I commend this chapter folowing to thy reading CAP. 3. That the proceeding against Iohn Vdall was iust and lawful and that the plat formers are iustly charged with breach of diuers lawes and guiltie of faction sedition and diuers other crimes notwithstanding the exceptions in that behalfe brought by the petitioner or others against the lawes and Iudges I Would not haue thought that any had bene so lewde as publikely to condemne Iudges of iniustice or so foolish as to oppose themselues against the execution of iustice had not this lewde libell declared the platformers to be of a strange humor and malcontent both with Iudges and lawes By these I doe see that it sorteth wel that men that desire innouation shoulde speake against lawes that such as doe liue in disorder and are voyde of reason should speake against Iustice reason Iohn Vdall a man vtterly vnlearned and very factious was as you haue heard condemned vpon the statute of 23 Eliz. 2 And for diuers other disorders mentioned in the inditement That it was iustly equally done the greatnes of the offence being faction and sedition the sincere and vpright dealing of those honorable persons that then were Iudges the allowance of others the most reuerend and learned Iudges in the land resoluing on the case the indifferencie of the Iurie the clemencie of her Maiesties gouernement the witnesses and proofes the fauour offered to the prisoner the obstinacie of the partie the testimonie of all that was present can declare Against all these a certaine quidam libeller lately distracted of his wittes and yet not well recouered taketh on him to argue boldly malapertly yea very loosely and foolishly But his malapert saucie dealing I leaue to gouernours to be considered his loose and foolish dispute I doubt not to make manifest to all that shall reade this discourse His first exception against the sentence pronounced against Vdal is For that he diffamed not her Maiestie which the law prouided for but Bishops that are no parte of her Maiesties body politike nor any of the three estates of this realme wherein he doeth not onely deny thinges true and affirme things false but also talke of lawe like a stranger ignorant in lawe and alledge an impertinent and not concludent matter That he diffamed her Maiestie appeared at the time of his triall by his writings and out of his seditious sermons and speeches proued by diuers witnesses and cannot now be called in question seing he that speaketh against her Maiesties supreme gouernement in ecclesiasticall causes her lawes her proceedings and all those ecclesiasticall officers which rule vnder her as Iohn Vdall and his felowes vse to doe diffameth her Maiestie yea and that much more then if he should touch her priuate person for that concerneth her gouernement and therein is she touched especially as a prince and her princely authoritie maiestie disgraced And therefore seeing that is the common case of all the puritane faction all they that write for their pure gouernement against this state are diffamers of her Maiesties princely dignitie Secondly hee denieth the Bishops to be one of the three estates of Parliament and the Cleargie to be one of the three estates of the Realme contrarie to the reckonning of this Realme and common speach and actes of parliament whose common stile is the Lordes spirituall and temporall and commons of the realme contrarie to the vse of the French from whence wee had the 1 I assemblee destroys estats viz. le elergè la noblesse cominautè worde and which call the parliament the assemble of the three estates and contrarie to the reckonning of all Christendome that deuide the realme into the ecclesiasticall state nobilitie commons yea contrarie to Christianitie For who will recken the estate without mention of religion but such as seeke nothing but their cause and profite without consideration of religion in the actes of parliament made at Edingburgh anno 1584 these wordes are often repeated His maiestie and the three estates And againe Our souereigne Lord and his three estates in this present parliament The heathens reckened but two estates to wit the 2 Senatum plebem nobilitie and commons Christians euer reckoned the ecclesiastical state one neither doeth any lawyer say contrarie 2 P. anno 36 37. h. 8. f. 60. In a certaine report of Iudge Dyer we reade that one certaine lawyer is of opinion for reason he bringeth none that the parliament consisteth of three partes the Prince the Lords the commons but we reason of the parliament considered as a bodie of it selfe beside the prince as it is in commō speach considered for so we say the king in his parliament assembled at Westminster or the king to the parliamēt or parliamēt to the king In which kindes of speach if you make the king a part of the parliamēt you make the prince to treat with himselfe which cannot be Besides that you iumble the lords spiritual temporal together make but one state of them which is cōtrarie to cōmon speach Last of all you make the prince that is head equal with the partes and make others as good as him which is the endeuour of this libeller and therfore I say that the prince is head of that body that consisteth of three estates viz. the lordes spirituall temporal commons which cōcurring make lawes to binde the realme neither is it true that the bishops by law may be excluded out of parliamēt For in al parliamēts ordinarily their assent is set downe in tearmes What is done or what hath bene done in 1 Iewel def of the Apol. fact I will not say So the 2 Certeine statutes haue bene made by the king lords spirituall and commons others by the king lordes spirituall and temporall lordes or cōmons may also be excluded but we reason of law And if the bishops may bee excluded thē may the nobilitie be excluded also For the lords consist part of bishops part of temporal lords both haue equal right That the bishops cannot be excluded by right appeareth by the 3 Throughout all statutes lawes and customes of this land Sometime they departed because they would not be at iudgement of life or member which they supposed to be contarie
came neuer in prison That which the libeller here inserteth againe of other churches whome hee would haue vs to conforme our selues vnto he would neuer haue mentioned if he had vnderstood the grounds of his owne discipline for them selues say that all 1 Discipline de l'esglise Francoise Churches be aequall and it is apparant that euery christian realme and Church is to be gouerned by her owne lawes but these bee the fellowes that would translate the Popedome to Geneua and haue vs fetch lawes from new Rome Seeing then that Iohn Vdall and his compagnions haue mainteined a lewde and fond gouernment neuer heard of in antiquitie and by wicked forgery and lyes haue gone about to disgrace the present state and the gouernours and haue rayled against her Maiestie and lawes and that the Libellers defence is most friuolous it can not bee denyed that they haue written maliciously to diffame her Maiestie And good is were they had stayed in writing but they would not be ruled for T. Cartw. Ioh. Vdall and others were acquainted but too well with Hackets conspiracy His third exception against Iohn Vdals condemnation is for that he wrote not against her Maiesties person But the same is very friuolous for the Maiestie of a prince consisteth in his power lawes gouernement and not in his particuler person or priuate qualities or behauiour Neither are the papists punished for speaking against her person but speaking against her supremacie and lawes Therefore seeing hee confesseth he wrote against her lawes and gouernement hee must also confesse that hee offended against the statute that made it felonie to write malitious diffamatory matters against her Maiesty The preamble declareth as much for that the same pretēdeth that certain persons euil affected to her Maiesty should be suppressed In which number these that would disanul her gouernment and would bring her in subiection to Hackets prophets or the prophetical consistory are especially to be reckoned it was the special meaning of the parliament that the malepartnesse both of papists puritans should be repressed as some there present in parliament do witnesse Neither is it material that penal lawes are of strict interpretation for expound it as strict as you wil. it cannot bee but those that diffame her Maiesty any way either in person or gouernment must fal within the compasse of the statute That which is brought of the statute of 13. Eliz. c. 1. and 1. 2. of Mary 3. is idle talke and concludeth nothing neither is it true that those that account her Maiesties religion lawes heretical and schismatical are without the compasse of the statute that maketh it treason to call her Maiesty schismatike heretike fond likewise it is that he talketh of stealing of horses and contrary to his purpose Seeing hee mainteineth a cōpany of asses that would encroch vpon her Maiesties gouernment steale away thé hearts of her people But saith he her Maiestie is a body politike in fiction which is vntrue for shee is in trueth a politike bodie That is hath a resemblance of a body truly But were she not a politike body at all should it be lawfull to diffame her lawes and gouernement This exception therefore is beside the lawe for be she body politike or no if her Maiestie be diffamed then is an offence committed against that statute Againe he obiecteth that if it be a diffamation of her Maiestie to speake against her ecclesiasticall lawes they should also diffame her Maiesty that speake against the eldership which is an argument like to the resolutions of the eldership that is senceles foppish for admit her Maiesty tollerate the french Church yet doth she not confirme their french lawes no more then they of Geneua confirmed the orders of the English Church at Geneua nor do other confirme cōtrary religions which for some occasions they tollerate so that to speake against the absurd gouernement of that 1 In king Edwards dayes the Churches of strangers were subiect to their superintendents in this Queenes time to the bishops of Canterbury and London against whom while vnkindly they spurne they shewe themselues vngratefull not only vnmindfull of her Maiesties benefits company that contrary to law and couenant haue exempted themselues from the bishops gouernment and erected synodes is to speake in defence of her Maiesties lawes and not against them whereas these fellowes offend in direct oppugning all her Maiesties ecclesiasticall gouernment Sixtly he inferreth because it is not treason to kill bishops or other subiects nor felonie to write or to speake against bishops gouernment that therefore her Maiestie is not diffamed when they are diffamed A reason rather to kill the libellers cause when al men see his malice and ignorance then to hurt others for no man saith her Maiestie is diffamed because libels are writtē against bishops or others but because the same libels doe touch her maiesties gouernment lawes and that not in one or two points but in the very whole body gouernement ecclesiastical of her maiestie and that in most disordered maner and that the authors therof are therefore punished for perturbing the state not for their fond opinions of discipline Neither doth the libellers friuolous talke of politike mēbers or of diffaming the Dukes of Saxony or high Almaine pertaine to this purpose The seditious bookes of the disciplinarian faction haue bene intended against her maiestie nor the Dukes of Saxony or kings of Denmarke albeit they touch them in some sort that maintaine the superiotity of bishops also He saith also that the intention of the parliament was not to protect bishops as if they meant not to maintain the lawes state But admit it be true yet it maketh neither hoat nor colde to this purpose for these seditious fellowes are not condēned for speaking against bishops but for that arguing against them and the ecclesiastical state they proceede in such violent sort that they neither spare her maiesties honor nor her gouernment in ecclesiastical causes that the meaning of the parliament was to represse the malice of puritanes is most certaine for it was expresly mentioned at the time of making the act by diuers of the house and therefore iustly are they to be punished by that statute Further he taketh exception to certain canōs in vse as he supposeth as that womē may not sue their husbands for adultery c. that spiritual kinred hindreth mariage others concerning excōmunication fasting therefore concludeth that if it be lawful for some to find faults with thē yet do not diffame her maiestie that I. Vd. diffamed not her maiestie but both his reason is naught his iudgemēt in law simple for albeit men are not accoūted diffamers of her maiesty that reprehēd some law with modestie yet can no man cal her maiesties gouernmēt antichristian nor raile against her lawes gouernment as idolatrous superstitious without diffamation of her maiestie Nor is the sufferance of
established doth not follow Wherefore vnlesse the author his partakers haue better supply of reasons then he hath brought here there is no cause he should desire conference or disputation If he desire to shew his skil in writing why doth he not take those bookes that haue bene written in this argument in hand and confute thē frō point to point why doth not T. Cartw. answere in the defence of his consistorie If he say that imprisonment hath hitherto bene an hinderance vnto him yet will not that excuse serue the rest that were neuer in prison why doe not W. Tr. Will. Ch. D. Sp. and others confirme their demonstrations of discipline wherein all their reasons stand confuted hauing so much worke to doe why shoulde he desire more belike this petition was made to bragge men downe but if he thinke he can do it he deceiueth himselfe for as farre as her Maiestie and lawes will permit they shall find a number readie in all sortes to encounter them but the libellers meaning is not to dispute as I thinke for no man hath worse grace in disputing nor more simple facultie in writing by hiding his head he seemeth rather to be ready to flye then fight his talke therefore of aduised writings is idle for both T. Cartw. and he hath written many things vnaduisedly and both flye the hammering of their cause only his purpose is to slander the state by libels to lurke in corners to haue all ecclesiasticall lawes and gouernement left without defence so that euery man might speake against them without eyther feare of punishment or controlment which neyther is good nor commendable for it would be most absurde if 3 or 4 difformed platformers should be suffered to dispute in schooles that her Maiesties authoritie is vnlawfull that our lawes and gouernement is wicked that the state is to be changed As for the course that Doctor Rainolaes vsed against Hart it was lawfull he being thereto authorised percase fitting for him might better be suffred being in poynts of religion resolued then in gouernement doubted of yet was it long and without effect but this course of priuate conference by writing which the libeller desireth in this cause is leude being against her Maiestie the lawes and state it would bee a way to rebellion it would make more contention it would bee infinite tedious and to no purpose the godly and Christian Emperors of Rome were of a contrary mind to this libeller for in diuerse expresse lawes they vpon great penalties forbid any to call in question the confession of faith of the Church 1 Cod. de sum trinit fid cath forbidding vt nemode capublicè contendere audeat neither doth the 2 Admonit de de lib. concord author of the admonition to the Churches of Saxonye allowe any such course as the libeller desireth nay his desire is that matters may bee discussed in some synode of learned men what shame then is it to deuise leude meanes to trouble the Church and falsly to impute them to those that neuer vsed them nor thought them conuenient the libeller therefore may do well hereafter to leaue to the wisedome of her Maiestie and the rest of the gouernors of the Church common wealth the composing of matters which is best wrought by good lawes and sharpe punishment that such as will not be answered with reason may like dizards bee corrected with rods wherein if he thinke himselfe dealt withall vniustly let him come forth when he will eyther in aduised or vnaduised writing his cause shal be prooued wicked and his consortes facts auowed punishable CAP. II. That there neuer was any gouernment by Church aldermen or supposed Ecclesiasticall Consistorie eyther vnder the lawe or in the Apostles times or after nor can without great iniurie to the Church of England to the Magistrates and others be admitted ALthough this positiō hath bene so fully 1 In the booke de presbyterio proued that neither T. Cartw. nor his schollers nor the whole packe of our aduersaries haue as yet made answere yet because the booke where the discourse is cōteined is in latine which percase thou vnderstandest not the argumēts lie dispersed so that without difficulty they cannot be gathered I wil here make a briefe of thē So shalt thou see what a cleare trueth this wise disputer thinketh to batter with vaine shew of mens opinions and be better resolued of the notorious vanitie of the consistoriall discipline That the Iewes had no meere ecclesiasticall consistory distinct frō the benches that handled ciuil causes these reasons may ascerteine vs. First there is no place of scripture where the institution of it may be found Those iudges that are mentioned Exod. 18 Deut. 17 are of an other sort for they heard all ciuil causes yea causes of blood inflicted ciuil punishmēts vpon offenders Those that are founde in the 11 of Numbers were of the princes counsel And other sorts of Collegiat Elders and Iudges are none found Let them shew them if they can the place of Leuiticus toucheth onely priestes in particuler and matters concerning their only office Further there appeareth no cōmission to haue bene giuē to any bēch of Iudges to determine ecclesiastical causes seuerally neither are there any lawes prescribed in Gods word to direct them by so that if any Iudged in such causes they proceeded both without authority and also direction which were very absurd to thinke for if God had appointed any such order of Iudges hee would no doubt haue giuen them authoritie and directions There appeareth not the lest step of any act of any such eccle siastical cōsistory through the whole scriptures or stories of the Iewes there is no memory found of thē in the time of Moses nothing vnder the iudges or kings or in the decay of the Iewish state not so much as the Sanedrin that condēned Christ to death is any precedent of the ecclesiastical cōsistorie whatsoeuer Beza can say to the cōtrary for it was the only remainder of the Iewish pollicy succeeded in the place of the counsell Numbers 11 and of the Iudges appointed Deut. 17 as is apparent by examination of the authority and acts of it All that authority which this ecclesiastical consistory is supposed to haue was either in thepriests or princes The princes in the time of Moses of the iudges kings made lawes and gaue souereign directiōs The priests iudged of things cleane vncleane executed caused al ecclesiasticall orders to be obserued 2. Chron. 19. exod 18. The priests Leuites appointed by the prince iudged of right wrong consecrated others to the functions of priesthood where was thē the ecclesiastical chimerical consistory all this while or how could it be supposed that others would encroch vpō the priestsoffice being debarred by Gods law not being mentioned in scripture or histories Neither are the ecclesiastical consistories commended for wel doing
portum Carpenter the matter is euident for he most bitterly inueigheth against them of Geneua and not very doubtful in 1 Bodini methodus historiae c. 6. Bodin For the wordes alleadged out of Bodin his methode of histories concerne the Aldermen nothing He speaketh of the censure of Bishops and did neuer imagine nor could conceiue that the censures of the Church were put in the hands of prophane men Illa pontificum censura saith he nihil maius aut diuinius cogitari potuit Secondly he doeth not commend the men he speaketh of but the censures for that they were so strictly executed Which commendation if magistrates were as willing to execute the censures of ecclesiastical Iudges with vs as at Geneua they are would no doubt worke like effectes with vs as with them And if the magistrate should not fauour them they would doe litle good in any place Thirdly he commendeth the same censure not as the institution of Christ or as a necessarie pollicie for the Church but as a very good pollitike and ciuill order deuised by men to keepe the common sort in awe But what if Bodin should say somewhat of matters he vnderstoode not his authoritie is very weake in this case being neither good in diuinitie nor excellent in pollicie and neither vnderstanding the state of Geneua nor our countrie and therefore no fit man to make vs here in England new lawes In the Harmony of Confessions there are certaine wordes inserted sounding much to the commendation of the Eldership Neither is it to be marueiled if they of Geneua that collected thē together made the wordes to sound as fauourably as might be for their owne state and gouernement but that all the churches or most of thē yea or any saue the disciples of the Geneuian eldership consent in one harmony of prayses of that forme of discipline cannot be proued No although the authors with 2 See the notes in the latter ende of the harmonie notorious falsifications wresting and forgerie drawe the sentences of the confessions frō their purpose to speake for the presbyterial gouernment Wherefore vnlesse the petitioner can iustifie this kinde of practise there is not so much credit wonne by the vaine names of Carpenter Bodin and the confessions of Churches as there is lost by forgerie falsifications and grosse leasings To strengthen the weake ioynts of this discrasied reason drawen frō authority he saith Frist that the consistorial gouernment is also receiued of the Churches of Heluetia the low countries Millain Poland and Hungarie Secōdly that it is vnder the Turke among the papists wherein he sheweth either singuler malice in lying wilfully or presumptuous ignorance in speaking of matters he vnderstood not For it is wel knowen that the churches of Heluetia neither haue Geneuian elders nor excōmunication And that the churches of the lowe countries to speake nothing of France nor Scotland liue in great confusiō disorder a matter rather to moue vs to refuse the consistorie then to embrace it And likewise it is euident that in Millaine Hungarie there is no visible church but of those that professe poperie And albeit there be some fewe elders amōg the papists of France Germanie and Hungarie yet doe they not shew thēselues nor haue they any allowance or thankes for being there But what maner of conclusion is this That because among papistes and Turkes Elders are receiued that we must also receiue them There are also Anabaptists Arrians and I know not how many heresies among the Turkes papistes which no reason requireth vs to embrace Poperie likewise is professed vnder the Turke not onely this consistorial discipline So that nothing can be more absurde then to conclude that therefore we are to admitte the Consistorie because it is crept in in Turky and among the papistes Likewise it is a vaine bragge to say That in the Church of Geneua Scotland France there bee thousands and ten thousands of the best diuines of the worlde I would the number of them were greater and their learning more excellent then it is I doe not enuie their nombers nor excellēcie but the rewarde of learning taken away and the great decay that hath hapned of late time in those churches doeth both teach vs what is now and what we are to feare and that when the reckonnig of good diuines is made it will come farre short of thousands much shorter of tenne thousands The ignorance want of ministers in France other Consistoriall places is too too lamentable such is the blessing of this countrie that one corner of England is able to match them all eyther in nomber or qualitie of learned men albeit we doe not reason from our owne authoritie The conclusion therefore that this bedlem discourser maketh is too too foppish viz. that Caluin and Beza and Tauergues and Chauueton and Perot and I know not who are more likely to finde out the trueth then the author of the remonstrance and my selfe for no man standeth vpon the authoritie of vs two though the simpler of vs in this cause feareth not T. Cartw. nor W. Trau no nor Beza their patriarke nor all their brags Neither doe I desire any man to beleeue me because I say so this is onely the conclusion of the platformers that beside the authoritie of men can say nothing for themselues But seing the interpretations of the consistoriall faction are fond fantastical singuler and contrary to scriptures to the Iewes histories to all the fathers and counsels yea contrary to all reason good concluding agree badly among thēselues and finally stand vpon the fooleries of the Geneuians their stupide followers vpon their falshood forgerie false allegatiōs abusing of scriptures I do thinke and auow that neither diuinitie nor humaine reason wil permit any man any longer to be abused by them or to giue credit to those that vse them Wherefore cōsidering the weake groundes which the consistoriall gouernement standeth vpon and the forgerie falshood and impudencie whereby it is supported and the disorder and confusion it would worke in the church in learning in lawes in her Maiesties authoritie in her reuenues in euery mans priuate right beside if it were receiued and lastly the seditious lewd courses that some men haue taken to establish the same If some haue bin punished it cannot be denied but that they haue wel deserued it yea that they haue deserued more punishment and lesse fauour For neuer was matter preferred with worse course which I doe not speake for that I would haue either the disciplinarians faultes or penalties aggrauated for the faults are grieuous in ough already and the punishment I referre to our superiors but least any should surmise they are wronged or that the lawes are rigorous or that the proceedings of her Maiestie and officers against them are iniurious For further declaration whereof I haue thought good not onely to answere the vaine cauils of the petitioner against the proceedings of
some did which inueighed against popish bishops and affirmeth that they woulde write so much against their father if hee were a bishop or non resident matters most absurde and false for neyther haue these leude and loose companions such a commission as had the Prophetes nor is the ecclesiasticall state to be compared with the idolatrous and wicked priests or popish bishops Neither haue the same followed the steps of Prophets or any propheticall persons Gods Prophetes they speake nothing but truth these are still telling vs prodigious and false tales of their consistorie and counterfeit discipline The Prophets neuer ray led against authority nor gouernors these raile against ecclesiastical ciuil gouernors and al that withstand thē the prophets shewed not thēselues vnnaturall to their parents these professe vnkindnes they did not assemble in seditious sort nor go about to make new lawes for the Church as these did They neuer by wicked conspiracy went about to establsh any newe fancies as did Wigginton Hacket Coppinger Cartw. Vdall and all that were acquainted with that action They neuer declaymed against others being most guilty thēselues as these fellowes do which being most negligent and loose in laboring most vnlearned and ignorant full of newe fooleries doe notwithstanding inueigh against others so bitterly that as this wise felow professeth they wil not spare their father no nor mother and why forsooth because they are of those which S. Paul speaketh of and telleth vs that they are without 1 2. Tim. 3.3 naturall affection This defence therefore is vnsufficient first for that it is false for they doe otherwise then they professe And secondly for that they confesse in this treatise at vnawares that they diffame her Maiesties gouernment affirming the same to be full of enormious corruptions and to haue in it reliques of Idolatrie and impietie and to mainteine a wicked and vnsufficient 2 The ministery of England is better without comparison then that of France Scotland or Dutchland ministerie imitating therein as vnderhand they insinuate the wicked kings of Israel and cruell tyrants that persecuted the Church And lastly for that hee auoucheth that in those times no man was accounted a diffamer of princes that spake against the ecclesiasticall lawes and state which cannot be prooued To iustifie his companions doings he telleth vs further a long discourse how they pray for her Maiesty how they pay subsidy how they fought for her Maiesty when the Spanyards were here And how some whom England shall remēber while it is England ventured as farre as any which is no more thē the papists professe nor thē Iewes Pagans do which yeeld al duties to princes fight when as the Puritanes plaied the cowards few shewed themselues for I knowe diuerse that being there sawe very fewe puritanes armed to mainteine this bragge But so deinty and nice they are that they exclame if they be not highly rewarded for euery litle dutie yea for fighting for themselues their countrey and plainely professe that without their desires for discipline they meane to withdrawe all duetie And therefore this is but a vaine bragge of praying preaching foure times a day and I knowe not what for their tumultuous praying and prating in those times did rather discourage then encourage any and was rather the beginning of tumult then any encouragement and hee that preached foure times a day had much idle talke and made many vnsauorie discourses But suppose some fewe of these men shewed themselues loyall and were so ventrous as to come to Tilberie or rayle against the Spanyardes yet others as it may well be surmised were framing supplications and prouiding horse and armes to come to present them al in armes Then did Martin frame his seditious libelles then others preached seditious sermons all tending to the weakning of those that willingly offred themselues in that seruice And Martin senior professeth that when the enemie was readie to assayle vs abroad there were a hundred thousand handes readie to subscribe the supplication of puritanes at home which saith he in good pollicie we being in feare of outward force might not bee denied nor discouraged Then which there can bee no greater argument of their disloyall proceedings Where they are charged with rayling against the princes gouernement they excuse it saying that therein they meant no more malice to her Maiestie then the godly prophets that vnder Ezekiah and Iosiah reprooued the abuses of the Church which is a point which must bee read with great patience for who can else endure to heare them compare themselues to the prophets their doings to the doing of the prophets the comparison being so vnlike Gods prophets were humble meeke peaceable and possessed with Gods spirit These are proude disdainefull contentious and driuen with other spirits They neuer spake against the state nor condemned the calling of priests nor said that the lawes were antichristian and diuelish these stand especially on these points abuse the gouernors and rayle against lawes and this fellowe as malepertly as the best He would further make the worlde beleeue that his clyents seeke onely for reformation and doeth euery where dubbe them with names of seekers of reformation But great difference there is betwixt pretence and performance Iacke Strawe and Wat Tyler and Kett of Norffolke and all rebels pretend reformation as well as these but the courses and deedes of both tend to nothing but disorder confusion the prince they would abase the Church they would spoyle the ecclesiasticall state they seeke to abolish learning and rewardes in all places where they come they take away Moreouer hee goein about to prooue that bishops may be hated for their doctrine and first for that they impugne that which heretofore they haue taught but neither is his cōlequent good nor antecedēt true for albeit that bishop Elmar spake sometimes against the excesse of bishops liuings as he then imagined not knowing in what state they stood yet did he neuer condemne the degree and dignitie of bishops nor did bishop Bollingham as it should seeme speake against the manners of others then papisticall bishops assuredly against the degree of bishops he neuer spake Neither are the opiniōs of one or two to be ascribed to all but if they which speake contrary to themselues deserue hatred what doeth Tho. Cartw. deserue that in many things speaketh hee knoweth not what in some things contrary to himselselfe as in election of ministers power of the presbytery and diuers poynts And what doth the Libeller deserue that confesseth hee talketh he knoweth not what contrarying his whole discourse Another reason hee bringeth to prooue that bishops may iustly be hated and that is because they confesse saith he infinite abuses to be in the church But the ground of the reason is false for no bishop did euer confesse so much nor doth it follow because some one speaketh vntrueth that all the cleargie of England should be maligned and hated Thirdly he thinketh
some mē that deale modestly a cloake to couer seditious persōs that deale factiously maliciously The lawes canōs which he mētioneth are vtterly mistakē Behold I pray you the mās simple skil first saith he there is a 2 32. q.r.c. apud law that womē should not sue their husbāds for adultery But in the place he quoteth there is no such matter nay which is worse Gratiā whō he quoteth hath no authority of law In that place there is mētion made that the womā shal not accuse her husband for adultery to haue him put to death which this wisard vnderstood not but thought thē to be forbiddē to sue their husbands for adultery But the 1 Gloss ibid. glosse telleth him that the contrary of that is law and the practise of ecclesiasticall courtes is contrary and so hath alwayes bene and many at this day doe sue their husbands in causes of diuorce for adultery The 2. 2 24. q. 2. c. vlt. Canon which he citeth and affirmeth to be contrary to Gods lawe is that heretikes after their death shoulde bee excommunicate But first it doth not appeare that it is lawe with vs. for as I haue already told him Gratian is no law So that I cannot but wonder what blockish conceite came into this mans distempered braine to talke of canon law that knoweth not what is law Besides it doth not appeare that this was practised before the statute of 25. H. 8 19. lastly the same is not cōtrary to Gods word for to the memory of wicked heretikes such as Arrius Eutyches Nestorius Macedonius Paulus of Samosata we say Anathema And if the libeller say not so he is a looser companion then I tooke him for The 3. Canon that he 3 30. q. 3. c. pitatium affirmeth to be cōtrary to Gods law and not to ours is that spirituall kindred shal hinder mariage But both is the same direct cōtrary to our lawes that only respect the degrees of cōsanguinity affinity such like as are mentioned in Leuit. not to Gods law where they list to vse it we allow no degrees of kinred to hinder mariage but such as are noted in Leuiticus Nor is it an offence against Gods lawe for some ciuil or domestical cause other then degrees of kindred to forbid mariage for some time with some persons And therefore they of 4 Ordonances de Geneue Geneua albeit they account the mariage of cosins germaine lawful yet thinke them not conuenient He alledgeth also certain canons that enioyne Clearks to fast 7 whole weekes before Easter forbid them to fast on thursday But that they were vsually obserued in England before that statute he sheweth not Neither doth he rightly quote the places So that if these malecōtent disciplinariās meane to speake hereafter against ecclesiasticall lawes they must sende vs foorth some wiser man then this libeller to speake in their cause for hee is but a simple fellowe to dispute and vnderstandeth iust nothing in lawe and very little in honestie That in king Henry and king Edwardes dayes order was taken for the collection together of lawes in vse is granted but that they meant to correct lawes in vse which this libeller doeth insinuate or did confesse that there be infinite corruptions in ecclesiasticall lawes which he affirmeth cannot be proued I will not longer stand vpon this point for that I haue spoken of it already and the same is beside the libellers purpose which should proue that Vdall and his consortes offend not against the statute of Eliz. 23. aboue mentioned But his reasons are all too weake for eyther stand they vpon false groundes or else are they mis-shapen and euil featured That which he saith of Wickleffe Suinderby Tindall Hooper Barnes Latimer and others whom he chargeth with speaking against the state of the Church and common wealth is vtterly vntrue let the places be shewed and their wordes set downe For in these that already are brought forth there is no such matter conteined they doe not call our lawes antichristian nor disgrace the gouernement of the prince nor condemne the superioritie of bishops nor raile at the preachers of the Gospel and gouernors of Christes church they neuer framed libels nor inuectiues against the state nor euer sought to haue a new found gouernement established in the church and albeit they inueigh against the manners of men and corruptions of those times yet shall you not finde any that hath written in Martins satyrical and doogeon stile nor that sought to haue either Church or state turned vpside-downe or committed to the direction of the common sorte compare them with these late rimers libellers and firebrands of sedition you shall see a wonderfull difference Further saith he some finde fault with the forfeiture of traytors landes some with the short returne of writs others with pluralities of fermes and engrossing of Mannors others with racking of rents and diuers other lawes and customes admit they did yet is not the fact of one an excuse for the offence of others we liue by lawes not by examples But it cannot be shewed that any euer so raged with malice against lawes as the Martinists did and doe those percase spake against some one or two lawes and that modestly submitting themselues to the controlement of their superiors they railed not against gouernors nor lanced them with malicious libels nor sought innouation but redresse of things disordered to all these examples therefore of Wickleffe Suinderby Hooper Barnes Latimer and those that haue found fault with some abuses in lawe I answere first that it is one thing to desire the reformation of some one abuse and another to desire the subuersion both of all ecclesiastical gouernors and lawes which cannot be without a dangerous innouation of state secondly that the course of the proceeding of those that haue spoken against mens manners and some one lawe is farre different from these mens doings and writings that striue for the new kingdome of the Consistorie lastly that Wickleffe Suinderby Tyndal Barnes Hooper Latimer spake against the corruptions of papisticall Bishops both in doctrine and manners yet neuer did they seeke for a new consistorial gouernement nor did they libell against the gouernors the lawes the state This is but the Consistorian stile lately founde out and practised by lewde lozels and satyricall backebiters of good men for which if no other punishment be laid on them yet they shall surely answere at the last dreadfull day if they repent and amend not Further it is a shamefull course though greatly pleasing these mens humors to take that which good men spake against pompous and tyrannicall Bishops that gouerned at pleasure and gaue ouer preaching altogether and to apply the same against Pishops that neither so excell in wealth but that many base scriuanos and marchants yea shoemakers and taylors surpasse thē nor in power but that meane companions abuse them are not popish tyrants but preachers of the
gospell If the libeller had had any modestie he would not thus haue abused mens writings nor if he had intended any other matter then to make libels would he haue drawne out certaine rimes out of Pierce Plowmā Chaucer men farre excelling him in all modestie and humanitie for albeit they rimed against wicked bishops yet doe they speake more ciuilly of them then he doth of godly and learned men whome with rime dogrell and dogged railing and many slaunderous reportes and that in the presence of a prince he goeth about malitiously to disgrace Not that he would teach them any good For he sendeth them to the diuill to learne Learne saith he of the deuill of which Maister the libeller hath learned all his rayling and shamefull slaundering and from him hath he borrowed all his malice Therefore I say not as he saith learne of the deuill but learne not of him he is a raylour and slaunderour and so are all libellers and reuellers the right disciples of Sathan That these bookes passe with this approbation Seene and allowed it followeth not that all thinges therein conteined are allowed but that they are allowed to be printed as hauing nothing in the opinion of him that allowed them cōtrarie to state and rather because we should reape some profite by that which is good then loose the good for the bad or alallow that is euil because it is ioyned with that which is good Neither are the consistoriall libellers punished for speaking against ciuill offices in bishops or faultes in them albeit it be an vnciuill parte to disgrace honest men in rimes and rayling discourses and sermons and to reprehend with such vehemencie that which they cannot disproue but because they bring in many pernitious doctrines and ouerturne all gouernement and deface the princes regiment and bring in infinite lewd nouelties and that by rayling reuelling faction And therefore if any suffer any punishment it is not for seeking reformation but for deforming and diffaming the frame of this Church gouernment and common wealth and that in shamefull sorte Neither doeth this libeller desire any thing more then that learned men should bee set aside that such sorrie hines as himselfe might enter in place A man fitter to be scourged in Bedlem then placed in Church gouernement Neither is there any shelter for the libellers cause vnder the names of my Lord of Canterburie Maister Nowel Maister Rainoldes M. Bancroft their opinions manners being so contrarie same was M Bancroft from calling her Maiestie a pope He reprehendeth Martin for his rash assertion implying that she is a pope All these men defend the other oppugne the state the one by good meanes seeke disorders to be reformed the other by all iniurious and vnlawfull meanes yea at length by conspiracie sought to ouerturne the state And therefore as the one deserueth praise so the libellers clyents deserue punishment And nought it is that hee can say for them their fault is so foule and his wit so simple They doe I say deserue punishment first for diffaming her Maiestie and next for plotting and working of rebellion And that is gathered by their doctrine which doeth clearely shewe their meaning for how should a man gather a mans meaning but by his wordes Listen then first what goodman saith a patriarke of this seditious congregation All men 1 p. 73.74.77 saith he Counsellors noblemen inferior Magistrates and people are bound and charged to see the lawes of God kept and to suppresse and resist idolatrie by force Againe If the 2 p. 196. Magistrates shal refuse to put massemongers and false preachers to death the people in seing it performed doe shewe that zeale of God which was in Phinees destroying the adulterous and in the Israelites against the Beniamites Further 3 p. 4. saith he to teach that it is not lawful in any case to resist the superior powers but rather to submit our selues to punishment is a dangerous doctrine taught by some by Gods permission for the punishment of our sinnes He 4 p. 63.43.59.72 affirmeth also that it is not sufficient for subiectes not to obey wicked commaundements of their princes but that they must withstand them also in doing the contrarie euery man in his vocation and office And 1 P. 3. 35. that it is the office of Counsellors to bridle the affections of Princes and gouernors And 2 Goodm p. 99. that it is lawfull to kill wicked kings and tyrants with him did he consent that made the booke of Obedience in Queene Maries time Queene Marie saith he 3 P. 99. 113. good m.p. 180. 184. 185. ought to be put to death as being a tyrant a monster a cruel beast And if saith he neither the inferior Magistrate nor the greatest part of the people will doe their office viz. in punishing deposing or killing of Princes then the Minister must excommunicate such a king And againe 4 obed p. 110. By the worde of God in such a defection or rebellion a priuate man hauing some speciall inward motion may kill a tyrant Whittingham that made a preface to Goodmans booke affirmeth That this doctrine was commended by the most learned in those partes which were Caluine Beza and certeine English men The same doctrine or disobedience rather against princes was taughr by 5 De iure regni Buchanan 6 Knox. appell p. 28. 30. Knoxe saith that the nobilitie and comminaltie ought to reforme religion and in that case may remoue from honors and punish Vnto these accorded Hottoman in his Francogallia and Beza de iure Magistratuum in subditos vindiciae contra tyrannos Vrsinus and the rest of the great patrons of the Consistoriall discipline Secondly the proceedings of the Consistorials both in Scotland and England declare the same In Scotland the roades first of Ruthuen then of Sterling where forcing the king for safegarde of his honor and life to take himselfe to the Castle they deposed Bishops and erected Consistories In England they sent about their factors into euery shire to procure subscriptions to their newfangled discipline they set vp Consistories and Synodes and watched the time of the Spanish inuasion to beginne their faites and but that they sawe themselues two weake would haue by force as many reasons make vs suspect executed their purpose yea notwithstanding their weakenes Hacket Coppinger and Wigginton with whome Th. Cartwright did communicate by diuers letters went about to raise a tumult and to set vp their discipline which they called their newe kingdome for which their new king was hanged drawen and quartered and Coppinger according to the puritan stile made away himselfe Thirdly these men haue many markes of faction in their doings their nightly meetings secrete whisperings open inuectiues against lawes and gouernours glorious pretenses of reformation mutuall intelligence newe names secrete confederacies subscriptions and such like doe marke them out for mutinous and rebellious companions
Magistrates Petitioner to take an othe so it be not taken in vaine or in matters vnknowen to them So likewise the Iesuites Answere and Rhemistes doe thinde it lawfull yet to accuse their fellowes or to hurt themselues they thinke it vnlawfull to take oathes and say That such oathes 11 Annotat. Rhemens in act 23. that are so taken doe not binde and must be broken vpon paine of damnation which is also the case of puritans for either they refuse to sweare or to answere concerning their brethren as they call them And what a vaine othe is that themselues wil also iudge ouerthrowing the ordinarie proceedings of lawe and best meanes of triall yea diuers of thē haue very small regard of their othes as the recordes of their answeres wil testifie for either they aunswere vntrueth or else refuse to answere so farre as lawe bindeth them yea albeit the matter be declared vnto them The authors of this booke they haue forsworne the telling of all trueth They seeke not to pull downe the courtes of Iustice Petitioner c. onely they would haue bislops and ecclesiasticall persons shut out from them Yet if the eldership did shine in his glory Answere all the courts of Iustice might pull downe their seates For if that the consistorie may orderal matters cōtrarie to the law of God wherein is breach of charitie what shall be left for other courtes Herein therefore they shewe not onely singuler presumption in thēselues but also great malice against other Themselues would entermeddle in all causes Ecclesiastical persons they cannot suffer in any yet are bishops a principall parte of the court of parliament Starchamber by the gouernours of this realmethought fittest and by no lawe debarred to be there vnlesse it be by the lawes of the cōsistorie made for the extinguishment of religion learning Whereas contrariwise the new churchaldermen haue no warrant of law but ouerthrow all lawes and her Maiesties prerogatiue And yet would be admitted in 1 Declaration of certaine actes made anno 1584. and in a certaine pamphlet spread abroad by them parliamēt consulted with in courts of Iustice seeke that al men should depēd vpon thē here as vpō Beza at Geneua endeuour to suppresse men of learning grauitie authorised by law that certeine worthles men vnder pretēce of authoritie frō Christ may tread downe lawes rule as they list At Geneua they pretēded first religion but they ouerthrew ciuil magistrates in the end and expulsed the Bishops of Geneua which were gouernours of that state They deny not that matters of testaments and marriages Petitioner may be determined by ciuilians or temporall lawyers It skilleth not greatly what they affirme or deny Answere vsing to doe both very impudently The lawes of this land haue thought fittest that both matters of mariages and willes and also causes of benefices of tythes and slaunder and other ecclesiastical controuersies should be handled in ecclesiasticall courtes The priuiledges of the Church princes binde themselues to obserue and the statute of Magna Carta confirmeth What shamelesse men then are these that would ouerthrowe so auncient courtes of Iustice so auncient lawes and giue cognition of matters to those that haue no skil nor lawe to decide them by And of a certaine state to make a most vncertaine and wauering state and to ouerthrowe the most excellent studie of the ciuill lawes yea ciuilitie it selfe to bring in barbarisme But let them settle themselues they are men fitter to parte a bootie taken by force then to deuide the offices of gouernement euery man let him goe to his occupation clownes to the plowe marchants to their shops Clarkes scribes to their penne ynkehorne and this petitioner to Bedlem As for the iurisdiction of bishops it is not onely confirmed by lawe but by antiquitie reason whereas the whole frame of discipline standeth vpon a fewe mens fancies neither wise nor learned and is repugnant to lawe and orderly gouernement yea to Gods word They teach that the Ministerie nor people ought to make any generall reformation Petitioner Marke I pray you Answere how nicely he minceth at matrers He will not say that either Ministers or others shall by force or other meanes of their owne authoritie make a generall reformation but that they may euery man in their seuerall parishes make a reformation he will not deny so the enuy he would a little decline but his hope of rebellion he would not loose but all commeth to one reckonning for whether this reformation or rather rebellion be made all at once or in diuers particular places at seuerall times all commeth to this passe that priuate men shal disanul lawes and erect new orders and rule as lordes and neither prince nor lawe beare sway so that were it as this man setteth it downe yet were it too too bad But I will shewe that the consistoriall doctrine yea and proceeding is farre otherwise Noblemen saith 1 Histor Scotl. appellat Knoxe Knoxe ought to reforme Religion if the king will not the same power he giueth to the 2 Histor Scotl. pag. 49. 50. comminaltie If the Prince will not yeeld to his 3 Knoxe appellac p. 28. 30. nobles and people he armeth them with power to depose him Nay saith he further If princes be tyrants 4 Knoxe to Engl. and Scotl pag. 78. against God and his trueth their subiectes are freed from their othes of obedience With him accordeth 5 De iure regni Buchanan he saith the people is more excellent then the king and hath right to bestowe the crowne at pleasure and may make such lawes as it pleaseth them that the people may arraigne the king and that Ministers may excommnnicate him In which case most wretched is the king and the people most puissant He saith further That albeit Saint Paul commaunded obedience to tyrants yet it was in respect of the times and people that were weake and not able to take armes The same doctrine is maintained by 6 De iure magistrat Beza by 7 Francogal Hottoman and others and it is the sweete reformed doctrine as they call it of the perturbers of our state 8 Goodmans booke Goodman soundeth the trumpet of sedition to the nobilitie and people 9 Theolog. sacr against the prince and holdeth That if princes will not reforme religion yet others might reforme it themselues The same argument is handled in that traytorous dialogue which Ghylbic published And Th. Cartw. although he denieth it as it should seeme hath taught this mysterie of discipliue to his scholler Fenner that there are certaine Ephori that ought to haue authoritie aboue the Prince which not onely may controlle him but also settle matters which he neglecteth And according to this doctrine they proceeded first at Geneua shutting their gates against the Bishop their prince and seasing his reuennues and altering the
ouerthrowe of the ministery as too late now the ministers thēselues there begin to feele why should it I say be more lawful there then with vs Article 8 If the bishops publish any Canons or orders to be practised without the royall assent of her Maeistie they should bee fined and imprisoned 25. H. 8. c. 19 yet notwithstanding this statute they publish subscriptions in their prouinces and articles in their Diocesses without any assent of her Highnesse Answere The end of this article is to haue the bishops imprisoned and fined according to the rules of puritane charitie But the meanes and proofes whereby the articulators endeuour to effect it are all too weake For they can neither prooue that they haue published Canons constitutions and prouinciall ordinances without the princes assent nor that they haue done any thing therein against lawe nay albeit in their subscriptions they require nothing but obedience to lawe yet did they not require them without speciall warrant But saith the accuser they publish new subscriptions articles Goodly stuffe As if either subscriptions or articles were canons or constitutions or ordinances or els such as minister priuate articles about matters in ciuill courts could be said to make new lawes It appeareth the man is but a nouice in law that knewe not what is law That he erre not let him vnderstand that the ordinances of discipline made by T.C. and his fellowes were made contrary to this statute And therefore if they desire Iustice to be done let the lawe be executed vpon offenders and let innocents be no more wronged Article 9 Ecclesiasticall officers extort from schoolemasters sometime 7. s. sometime more and make them subscribe both contrary to lawe Answere If they take 7. s. for a licence it is not much I know a petifogger yea a Scriuano that for writing a licence hath taken 7. li. let them therefore both bee punished together according to the seueral qualities of their offence and let all takers and extortioners answere for their extortions I defend them not I excuse them not I fauour them not As for subscriptiō of schoolemasters how can it be misliked seeing it is only for confirmation of law exacted of them least they should instill discontētment schismatical heretical opinions into their schollers minds Done at Geneua Ordon de l'esehole de Geneua as but too many factious and puritane schoolemasters haue done to the great preiudice of this Church and state the more haue they to answere for that haue suffered them and more care ought men to haue that such nurseries of rebellion bee not suffered But what reason hath this pettifogger or the scriuano his suggestor to condemne subscriptions seeing both of them win more by scribling and subscribing then any ecclesiasticall person I know in England Article 10 By the great charter none may bee imprisoned but by the lawfull iudgement of his Peeres or by the law of the land Answere By the lawes of the great charter the priuiledges of the church state ecclesiastical are with most pregnant termes confirmed and yet this faction without regarde either of charters or lawes or honor of the prince that is sworne to maintaine them or of the reputation of the realme that standeth most in maintenance of Gods church religion goeth about to ouerthrow both the ecclesiasticall state and all the customes rights priuiledges of the church if then he think it not lawful to infringe the lawes of Magna Charta what presumption is this that he his companions directly oppugne them on the contrary side he cannot charge any iustly with the breach of lawes let him if he can name any that hath imprisoned any contrary to the lawes of Magnacharta if he cannot why doth he speake of imprisonment to no purpose If he affirme any such matter of bishops he doth them wrong For they imprison none by authority Episcopal If he speake against the high Commissioners in causes ecclesiastical he is to vnderstand that diuers of them being of the most honorable persons and Iudges in the land they will not doe any thing against law Nor doe they commit any but contumacious offenders whom no lawe may spare That they punish men for not swearing vainely is a vaine lye To say that an othe offered by a magistrate is vaine is both disloyaltie and Anabaptistrie But all this rigour is clemencie in respect of the consistoriall proceedings For there men are censured by opinion and ministers disgraced vpon suspicion and Caluine put a syndicke and diuers chiefe men of Geneua to their oathe to answere whether they had bene daunsing at widow Baltazars house and after that remooued diuers of them from their places he that liketh these orders must needes commend ours Article 11 By the common lawe a man shall not be examined vpon his othe in matters that sound to his reproch Crompton 182. Answere Cromptons worde is no measure of lawe The contrarie hereof is lawe by the opinion of the most learned Iudges in England It is the practise of the court of Chancerie in the court of the coūcel of the marches principalitie of Wales in the court of Starrechamber whereas the parties are examined vpon their othes vpon periuries forgeries and many other misdemeanors Suppose it be at the instance of parties which notwithstanding is not alwayes yet it appeareth that othes to discouer things reprochfull to a mans selfe bee lawfull and very common and most necessarie And a simple lawyer was he that vnderstood not so much Likewise in other courtes of recorde at Westminster the iudges by corporall othe examine any person whome they haue cause to suspect to haue dealt lewdly about any writte returne entrie of rule such like matters By the statute of inquisitiō 1 Stat. de Exon de Inquisit super Coronat vpon Coroners the enquirors shall make the Bailiffes sweare that they shall conceale nothing no though it be penall to them Masters of shippes are to bee put to answere on their othes vpon the statute of money 9. Edw. 3. c. 9. Whether they haue committed any fraude So likewise they that are charged vpon the statute 2 8. Edw. 4. c. 2. of liueries must answere the bill vpon their othe though the matter be penall The same is apparant by the statute of wines 24. H. 8. c. 2. of banckrupts 34. H. 8. c. 4. by the statute of supremacie by the statute of Fugitiues 13. Eliz. c. 3. In appeales at the Common lawe the defendant before battell is driuen to 3 Stanf. Pleas of the crowne lib. 3. c. 14. sweare A Iuror departing from his companie was examined on his othe whether he had talked with the defendant yet if he had confessed it the same had bene penall M. 34. Edw. 3. fol. 3. In an action of formedon couin being found by othe in the defendant hee was punished by the Iudges discretion T. 7. H. 4. fol. 19. The othe of supremacie may be giuen
is offended with not singing which he affirmeth to be no small peccadillio So neither singing nor saying pleaseth them What then is best for them Forsooth silence That any doeth offend in this point when hee is put to it he will not be able to iustifie Article 18 The names of the Communicants before they receiue should be signified to the Curate yet this is not regarded in most places Answere That is not the Curats fault but rather of those that should signifie it if any be Let the Communicants therfore signifie their names The curates to please his maship shall be alwayes readie to open their eares which notwithstanding will not make for the libellers aduantage for if his name be brought hee will be vndoubtedly repelled for an vncharitable person vnsit to communicate among Christians Article 19 Notorious lewd persons be admitted to the Communion yet should the Curate repell such Answere If they doe repell such as it is notorious then is this libeller a notorious lyer yea a lyar and slaunderer in print But hee percase counteth those men notorious offenders which any one suspecteth Which if it were true then are most putitans notorious lewde persons that are commonly suspected for such and not without cause For further answere I say that such as by sentence of the Iudge are pronounced culpable which are in deede notorious offenders are repelled and that to repell others were a course full of disorder and iniustice And lastly that hereafter such notorious rayling puritans as doe slaunder religion shall bee better looked vnto and be repelled both from the Communion and all honest mens societie being enemies of learning and scandales of religion Article 20 The Minister shoulde vse the ornaments appointed by King Edwarde Answere And doeth he not so If any doe otherwise it is of the factious sorte that deserueth punishment But saith the libeller the Clarke doeth also weare a surplice As if it followed because the Clarke weareth a surplice that the Minister doeth not All like as if a man should conclude because Giles Wiggington hath some little witte that this libeller hath none The meaning of the lawe is that such ornaments shall be vsed as were appointed by king Edward where other order should not be takē For later lawes abridge the former If then the accuser can shewe that lawes are not herein obserued he shall doe vs great fauour to name the offenders Article 21 In Cathedrall Churches the Communion should be ministredeuery Sunday at the least Answere If often Communions be commendable then is our Church to be preferred before that of Geneua that communicates onely quarterly Better therefore it were for malice to keepe silence then to say that which is nothing Let him if he can detect those that are culpable Article 22 The Godfathers doe not their duetie neither doe Bishops vrge them Answere Let him shewe that Bishops may doe it by lawe and then reproue them for not doing their duetie If it be left to the conscience of Godfathers to doe their dueties why should the Bishops be charged with other mens faultes Forsooth this libeller meaneth to lay all faultes on the Bishops backes I would to God for my part there were no faults but in Bishops so farre am I from enuying any mans puritie But this puritie I feare is but hypocrisie For many puritans mislike Godfathers and are very impure in life and conuersation Article 23 Bishops are commanded to confirme children yet fewe doe it Answere The puritans commonly deride Confirmation albeit a most auncient and Christian ceremonie This fellowe chargeth Bishops with a great fault for omitting it How will these agree Nay how will this companion verifie his assertion being most vntrue But if any bishops doe not confirme children it is because certaine factious persons haue perswaded the people to refuse it and that verie wickedlie not onely fantastically Article 24 Curates doe not instruct seruants and youth vpon holydayes Answere Causeles doeth this accuser barke against Curates seeing he cannot charge any particuler If he can let him call him before his superiors The exercise is good and godly neither doeth any account it tyrannie to instruct the ignorant But sure great presumption it is for yong puritans publiquely to examine graue and discreete men that know more then themselues and indiscretion to vse examination as the disciplinarians would haue it vsed Article 25 None should be admitted to the Communion that cannot say the Catechisme Therefore Curates should examine communicants and seelude them that be wanting in knowledge Answere Can you shewe any Curates that haue not done their dutie herein If you can carrie them before the Ordinarie they craue no fauour In the meane while learne this lesson of me Shewe not your cancred malice against good Ministers There is none but liueth as well as puritans nor any so base that may of a Pettifogger or Scriuano be contemned nor any that is more ignorant in their Catechisme then puritans that neuer enter deeper then the paraphrase of their Creede and pater noster Article 26 Banes should be asked three seueral Sundayes in the open Church yet the Bishops dispence with banes Answere In the booke it is Sundayes and Holy dayes this is therefore his first error The second is that he misliketh dispensations for both by law and customes of this Church and for good causes are they granted Neither doeth the affirmatiue without the negatiue in any lawe take away a custome that may stand with the lawe as in this case The lawe will haue banes three seuerall dayes proclaymed That no dispensation be graunted the lawe hath not Wherefore seeing dispensations are confirmed by lawe and not taken away by this Rubricke let the accuser holde his peace and cease to proclaime his owne follie and to worke the bane of his cause and finally while he would shewe skil in lawe to proue himselfe deuoyde of lawe and reason Article 27 The partie presented to the Bishop should weare a plaine Albe yet this garment is not vsed Answere In the booke of ordering Ministers there is no such garment appointed And if it were yet were it no such disorder as this charitable man maketh it that would haue the bishops thrust out of their liuings yea out of the Church for committing it But suppose Deacons should weare an Albe how is the neglect of it ascribed to Bishops and not rather to the partie that knoweth not his duetie or of new curiositie that can abide none apparell but of the Geneuian fashion would this libeller were a yellow cote it would become him better then an Albe Article 28 The Deacon by part of his office ought to search for the poore sicke and impotent of the parish and intimate their estates to the Curate But now the office is accompted mere spirituall Answere He ought onelie to doe it where he is so appointed which clause this accuser meaning no good trueth cautelously left out That he should only attend the poore and
haue more benefices then two with cure if they haue all but those they can keepe doe fall voyde lastly all this which hee draweth out of the Canons is to no purpose for they haue no strength of lawe Article 63 The bishops say that excommunication is a ciuill discommuning and company with excommunicate persons and if our Prelates were examined then were they excommunicate and worse then publicanes and heathen Answere Marke I pray you the intemperate furie of this base companion the honourable Prelates of this land reuerend for their learning yeeres grauitie place this crablouse swaine and paltrie parasite scornefully calleth iolly prelates and in changing scorne into rayling calleth them excommunicate persons yea worse then publicanes and heathen into such a streine of madnes is he entred looke Allen Stapleton other traytors discourses yet shall you find no such scornefull nor spitefull speaches and wherefore doth hee so reuile them forsooth because he supposeth they offend against canons yet neyther doth he prooue any fault nor can he shew that those canons are lawe nor can hee excuse his consorts that notoriously contemne all excommunications nor finally can hee disproue the common distinction of excommunication that one sort is ecclesiasticall the other ciuill and therefore as a furious for rayling without learning or wit against men of so high place hee is rather to bee corrected in Bedlem then refuted with long discourse I doubt not but the consistorie it selfe will bee ashamed of such kinde of dealing and all other reasonable men condemne it why the disciplinarians should talke of excommunication there is no reason forthey commit the same into prophane mens hands and are therein worse then heathen that neuer committed such holy things into so base mens hands This is the summe of all those articles that he hath gathered against the ecclesiasticall state a playne iustification of all their doings for if he could haue said more against them he would not haue spared and charging them with matters eyther tryfling or else vtterly vntrue declareth them to bee innocent himselfe to bee malicious and furious for the summe of all is nothing but a packe of vnruly wordes as Chapplaines Priestes iolly Prelates hangbyes excommunicate persons worse then heathen and publicanes licentious preachers extortioners bribers and such like I could requite him with better and as bitter tearmes but to answere his articles I will onely returne him but these few articles following A BRIEFE COLLECTION OF DIVERS haereticall and strange opinions lewde practises and fond fancies and deuices which certaine factious and light headed persons haue lately coloured and aduanced with glorious titles of discipline and reformation set downe in forme of Articles TH. Cartw. doth call the rules of his new discipline the 1 In the Epistbefore Fenners new diuinitie Axiomes or irrefragable principles of heauenly Canaan whereby he would in sinuate that they are without doubt to be receiued and yet can he not shewe that euer the eldership or the strange gouernement thereof was practised in Canaan vnlesse it were of the Cananites and enemies of Gods Church to the rooting out of Gods people and ouerthrow of the Ministerie 2 The disciplinarians holde that the gouernement of the Eldership is Christes kingdome and that they that withstand the same are enemies to Christ to religion and to Christes kingome and apply these wordes of the Gospel 2 Th. Cartw. in a certeine table Those mine enemies that would not haue me to reigne ouer them bring them and slay them before me Aplaine euidence that if with entreatie they cannot they meane by warres and bloodshed to set vp their kingdome and yet William Hacket their first king was crowned in Cheapeside with an hempen coronet or diademe and his garde and followers dipersed 3 They teach That the Church is onely to be gouerned by Christes lawes And yet are they not able to bring forth one worde for proofe of their consistorie or the partes of it or the office of euery seueral part of it or any part of their gouernment and seeme to rest onely vpon mens bare conceites and fancies contrarie both to scriptures equitie and reason 4 They professe great loyaltie in termes yet doubt not to say that the simplest Consistorie they haue may giue the prince to Satan 5 They take from the magistrate power to make ecclesiasticall lawes for the gouernment of the Church and yet at Geneua they haue no ecclesiasticall lawes but made by the magistrates 6 That authoritie which statutes giue to princes In calling and assembling of Synodes and appointing ecclesiasticall commissioners to heare and determine Ecclesiasticall matters and appointing delegates to represse wrongs offered in Ecclesiasticall courtes they take away and deny the supremacie of the prince very presumptuously 7 They ouerthrowe her Maiesties reuennues and dissolue the office of first fruites and tenthes 8 They deny her all authoritie to nominate Bishops or other officers of the Church and vtterly take away her right of patronage in all ecclesiasticall liuings 9 They dissolue all ecclesiasticall lawes and all those statutes that concerne Bishops or other Ministers or other ecclesiastical liuings person or cause 10 They deny that her Maiestie may pardon and graunt life to any offender Fenneri Theologia whome Moses lawe commandeth to be put to death and binde her to the obseruance of Moses iudiciall lawes 11 They seeke the ruine and ouerthrowe of the whole ecclesiasticall estate by abasing the Ministers of the Church beneath all others and laying infinite burthens vpon them and taking away all rewardes of learning a point which you my masters of the vniuersitie are to looke vnto 12 By ouerthrowing of the Ecclesiasticall state they doe depriue her Maiestie of many thowsands of able and most willing men to doe her seruice and make way to inward faction and forreine inuasion and all manner of heresies and disorders 13 They teach Th Cartw. reply that all magistrates are to licke the dust of the feete of the Eldership 14 They goe about to bring in forreine lawes and forreine and vncouth gouernors 15 They teach that in euery common wealth well gouerned Fenners holy diuinitie there ought some magistrates to be appointed to depose and ouerrule princes if they doe not their dueties like the Spartain Ephori 16 They teach that the prince may not determine any weightie matter Ibidem without the assemblie of the estates 17 They depraue the ecclesiasticall gouernement Martin and religion of this Church and call it antichristian and diuelish 18 They traduce the publike iustice of this land Martin and Epist before reformat no enemie and rayle against the parliament the lordes the Iudges the lawes and whatsoeuer misliketh them 19 They haue confederated themselues together That is euident by theit subscriptions for the ouer throwing of the ecclesiasticall lawes and state and haue subscribed certeine articles for the establishment of new lawes and gouernement 20 Cartwright and
subiectes to reforme religion when princes will not yea rather then faile euen by force of armes 36 Quaere 2 Ibidem pag. 217. 234. 256 258. c. whether Iohn Knoxe and other his adherents grounding thēselues vpon the foresaid opinions cōcerning violent reformation did not by priuate motion without any authoritie put in practise a strange manner of reformation in Scotland and whether our disciplinarians doe not intend such a practise in England and if they doe whether they thinke that this course of theirs and these their rules of discipline will stand with Gods word or good orders 37 Quaere whether Beza was not the author or amplifier or publisher of the booke intituled De iure magistratuum in subditos a booke which ouerthroweth in effect all the authoritie of Christian kings and magistrates and whether the doctrine therein conteined be agreeable to the rules of that discipline which they haue so greatly vrged the same question is demaunded likewise of the booke called Vindiciae contra tyrannos a booke conteining no lesse pernicious matter against the authoritie of princes then the former 38 Quaere 3 Epist to Goodmans booke whether Master Whittingham that affirmed that the doctrine of Goodmans booke printed at Geneua in queene Maries time against the regiment of women and for exciting the subiectes to take armes against their soueraine princes in some cases was approoued to be good and godly by the chiefest men of learning that then were in the citie said therein either truely or Christianlike or schollerlike 39 Quaere whether the English disciplinarians that were at Geneua in Queene Maries time according to the said 1 Goodman pag. 73. 74. sequ and booke of Obedi pag. 99. 103. doctrine then there allowed of taught not that the nobilitie of England ought to reforme religion by force of armes and rather then faile to put the Queene then 2 Goodman pag. 99. 114. 115. sequen reigning to death and whether this point of doctrine be one of the principles of their new discipline and disciplinarian kingdome holden of most and professed of those that liue in free cities and states not subiect to kingly regiment 40 Quaere whether the said disciplinarian ministers and faction did not holde it lawfull according to the said 3 Goodman pag. 196. 87. 34. 35 185. 180 184. c. Geneuian doctrine That if the noble men and other inferiour Magistrates for feare should refuse to reforme religion as is mentioned the rest of the people might doe it in that case themselues and whether this be one of the axiomes of Th. Cartwrightes heauenly Canaan and a decision of their disciplinarian Synodes 41 Quaere whether the saide disciplinarians haue not taught publikely in bookes rather then there should be no reformation such as they wished that any priuate man hauing forsooth some extraordinarie motion or calling like that percase of Hacket might embrewe his handes with the blood of his 4 Goodman pag. 115. 199. 200. of obedience pag. 116. 110. souereigne according to the examples of Phinehes Ahud and such like 42 Quaere whether the reasons alledged by Knoxe and Wollocke against their gouerner and prince were sufficient in lawe for the subiectes to depose a prince 5 Histor of the Church of Scotland pag. 272. 278. or a regent lawfully appointed as they and others their followers did depose the Queene regent of Scotland and whether their allegations and doings are catholike rules of discipline for all times and all Churches 43 Quaere whether by the lawes of their new disciplinarian kingdome it be not as lawfull to depose a king from his seate and crowne for dealing in causes ecclesiasticall which they entend and affirme not to belong vnto him as it was for them of Geneua to depose their Bishop which was also their liege Lorde and prince from his temporall right and liuing for 1 Caluin to Sadolete dealing in causes temporall albeit he was by right of succession the temporall Lorde and owner of that citie and territorie 45 Quaere whether the doctrine conteined in a 2 Declaration anno 1582. Declaration printed in Scotland why certeine persons mere subiectes repaired to the king at Ruthuen one reason of that forcible repaire being for that the king tooke vpon him to deale in causes ecclesiasticall be agreeable to the catholike doctrine of their discipline 46 Quaere whether the practises of certeine ministers in Scotland for the setting vp of their presbyteries by their owne authoritie as they are described in the actes of parliament helde there Anno 1584 and published in print are iustifiable by Gods word and to be helde for generall rules of discipline to be practised in all Churches 47 Quaere whether that be true that is reported in the Chronicles of Scotland which were perused and corrected by Master Randal Master Killigrew and Doctor Hammond concerning an other repaire made to the king of Scors at 3 Chronicle pag. 446 sequent Sterling and whether the proclamation there mentioned and the actions which then happened be agreeable to the doctrine of the disciplinarian kingdome taught euery where or els be but extraordinarie and locall and onely there to be put in practise where there is good opportunitie offered 48 Quaere whether in France other where they doe not contrary to their opinions for violent reformation of religigion by noble men by the people or priuate persons taught for 30. yeeres and vpwards teach now that it is vtterly vnlawfull for any subiect vnder any pretence of any extraordinarie calling so much as once to lift vp a hand against the prince be he tyrant idolator heretike or whatsoeuer and whether all the rest of the rules of this discipline may not as well be varied by time as this point is and what maner of disciplinarian faith this is that is so inconstant and variable and teacheth sometime obedience and sometime rebellion and like the Chamelion changeth haire so often 49 Quaere whether the wise authors of this petition doe not shew themselues to bee of the disciplinarian humour in this behalfe when they thinke it a sufficient answere in the behalfe of Beza Hotoman Buchanan and others that published the doctrine of stirring the subiectes against their princes to say they write so against popish kings and such as they iudged tyrants as if it were lawfull for subiectes to rebell against such as they account tyrants and popish kings and of T.C. let it be enquired whether he allowe this for one of his cananitish lawes of his celestial consistorie 50 Quaere whether 1 Conspiracy for discipline and examinations taken in the Starre Chamber published T. Cartw. and certaine ministers here his disciples haue not entred into the very same course for setting vp the discipline in England which you shal perceiue by the sayd declaration by the acts of parliamēt in Scotland Anno 1584 and by the English Chronicle that the ministers of Scotland