Heedlesness of the Common-Souldier contributed in a High Measure to the General Fate Nay that his Late Majesty was oppress'd even by those that thought they fought for him before they understood what they did But yet let me Commend to your Observation that these relenting Intervals in the Heads of the Army did manifestly Vary according to the Pulse of their Affairs Which evinces that it was a Deliberation upon the matter of Convenience rather then upon a Point of Conscience But thus far however we are agreed That many of the Non-Conformists were engaged Whether upon Ignorance Interest or Faction take your Choice That is to say upon Which of These Three you will found the Merits of your Party We are next to Enquire How far your Principles and Actions will comport with the Duties of Society and the Ends of Government SECT IX The Non-Conformists Plea for Toleration from the Innocence and Modesty of their OPINIONS and PRACTISES C. IN the Question of Government and Obedience there are many Points wherein the Non-Conformists agree Many more wherein they differ and not a few wherein they are altogether Fluctuant and Uncertain We have Nothing to do in this Place with their Disagreements or Uncertainties save only in those Matters wherein they are United by Common Consent And to Determine what Those are will be a New Difficulty Unless you tell Us before-hand What Authorities we may depend upon Your Principles must be Known or they cannot be Examined Wherefore Pray'e Direct us Where we may find them N. C. Why truly in the History of the Reformation for This Controversie has been on foot from the very beginning of it to this Day C. If you speak of the Reformation beyond the Seas I do not find any thing there that comes neer our Purpose Here is first Pretended a Reformation of a Reformation Secondly A Conjunction of Several Parties and Perswasions at utter Enmity One with Another in a Confederacy against the Order of the Government Whereas in the Great Turn of Affairs Abroad I see little more then a Defection from the Church of Rome and People setling themselves in some other way as well as they could Muncer's Party in Germany had I confess some Resemblance of the Tumults here in England that usher'd in the late War both for the Medly and for the Rabble In Scotland indeed there was a Contest for the Reforming of a Reformation and it went high But it was only a Struggle for the Geneva-Discipline Which Humour was brought over to us too and driven on for a while under Q Elizabeth with much Contumacy and Bitterness But our Case in short was never known in the Christian World till the late Troubles and thither it is that we must resort for satisfaction to our present Enquiry Now whether you 'l be tried by the Declarations Votes Orders and Ordinances of that Pretended Parliament that carry'd on the Quarrel Or by the Undeniable Doctrines and Positions of your own Divines and those the very Idols of your Party is left at your Election N. C. As for the Parliament let them answer for themselves We had no hand in their Proceedings And for our Ministers They were but Men and may have their Failings as well as other People If you would know our Principles We are for Worshipping according to the Light of Our Consciences for Obeying God rather then Man and for yielding all due Obedience to the Civil Magistrate C. All This comes to Nothing For you may make that Light what you please and Qualifie that due Obedience as you list What does all this Evasion and Obscurity signifie but that there is somewhat in the bottom more then you are willing to own There are a sort of People that tell us The War raised in 41 in the Name of King and Parliament was Lawful And That the Soveraignty was lodg'd in the Two Houses Nay in the People in Case of Necessity That Kings are but the Peoples Trustees Their Power Fiduciary and the Duty of Subjects only Conditional That Princes may be Depos'd Nay and put to Death in Case of Tyranny And That their Persons may be Resisted but not their Authority That the King is Singulis Major Universis Minor And that the People may Enter into Covenant for the Reformation of Religion without the Consent of the Chief Magistrate nay against his Authority and Propagate Religion by the Sword They make their Appeals from the Literal Construction of Law to the Equitable from the Law Written to the Law of Nature and Necessity A Man might ply You with fresh Instances upon this Subject till to morrow morning But here we 'l stop And pray'e speak your Opinion now of Granting a Toleration to a Party that Professes and Teaches These Principles and Acts accordingly N. C. What is all This to the Non-Conformists Who are already come to an Agreement that In the Question of Toleration The Foundation of Faith Good Life and Government is to be Secured C. Very Good So that what Party soever shall be found Guilty of the Positions aforesaid and of Actions answerable thereunto cannot reasonably pretend to a Toleration from the Innocency of their Opinions and Practises Now to Particulars The POSITIONS of Divers Eminent Non-Conformists I. The War raised by the TWO HOUSES in the Name of King and Parliament 1641. was Lawful I cannot see that I was mistaken in the main Cause Nor dare I repent of it Nor forbear the same if it were to do again in the same State of Things And my Iudgment tells me That if I should do otherwise I should be guilty of Treason Or Disloyalty against the Soveraign Power of the Land Pag. 486. A King abusing his Power to the Overthrow of Religion Laws and Liberties may be Controuled and Opposed This may serve to justifie the Proceedings of this Kingdom against the Late King who in a Hostile way set himself to overthrow Religion Parliaments Laws and Liberties P. 10. The Righteousness of the Parliament's Cause is as clear as the Sun at Noon-day And like the Law of God it self in These Excellent Qualifications of it That It is Holy Just and Good P. 6. II. The Lords and Commons are the Supreme Power Nay the People in Case of Necessity Parliaments may judge of Publique Necessity without the King If deserted by the King and are to be accompted by Virtue of Representation as the Whole Body of the State P. 45. Whensoever a King or other Superior Authority creates an Inferior They Invest it with a Legitimacy of Magistratical Power to Punish Themselves also in Case they prove Evil-doers P. 7. England is a mixt Monarchy and Governed by the Major Part of the Three Estates Assembled in Parliament P. 111. The Houses are not only requisite to the Acting of the Power of making Laws but Co-ordinate with his Majesty in the very Power of Acting P. 42. When as a Part of the Legislative Power resides in
the Two Houses as also a Power to redress Grievances and to call into Question all Ministers of State and Justice and all Subjects of whatsoever Degree in Case of Delinquency It may be thought that a Part of the Supreme Power doth reside in Them though they have not the Honorary Title And This Part of the Supreme Power is indeed Capable of doing Wrong Yet how it might be guilty of Rebellion is more Difficult to conceive P. 49. The Delegates of the People in the House of Commons and the Commissioners on the King's behalf in the House of Peers concurring do very far bind the King if not wholly P. 112. And when These cannot agree but break One from Another the Commons in Parliament assembled are Ex Officio The Keepers of the Liberties of the Nation and Righteous Possessors and Defenders of it against all Usurpers and Usurpations Whatsoever P. 130. III. KINGS are but the Peoples TRUSTEES Their Power Fiduciary and the Duty of Subjects Conditional The King is but the Servant of the People and his Royalty is only a Virtual Emanation from them and in Them radically as in the first Subject So Rutherford Parker Goodwin Bridges Milton c. The People can give no other Power then such as God has given Them And God has never given a moral Power to do Evil. All Fiduciary Power abused may be repealed And Parliamentary Power is no Other Which if it be abused The People may repeal it and resist them Annulling their Commissions Rescinding their Acts and Denuding Them of their Fiduciary Power Even as the King Himself may be denuded of the same Power by the Three Estates P. 152. Princes derive their Power and Prerogative from the People and have their Investitures meerly for the Peoples Benefit P. 1. It is the King's Duty to pass all such Laws as Both Houses shall judge Good for the Kingdom Upon a Supposition That They are Good Which by them are judg'd Such If the Prince fail in his Promise the People are Exempt frm their Obedience The Contract is made Void and the Right of Obligation is of no Force It is therefore permitted to the Officers of a Kingdom either All or some good Number of them to Suppress a Tyrant P. 120 121. IV. Princes may be DEPOSED and put to DEATH in Case of Tyranny Every Worthy Man in Parliament may for the Publique Good be thought a fit Peer and Judge of the King P. 24. Where there is no Opportunity for the Interposure of Other Judges the Law of Nature and the Law of Nations allow Every Man to Judge in his own Gase P. 34. If a Prince wants such Understanding Goodness or Power as the People judge Necessary to the Ends of Government In the first place He is Capable of the Name but not of the Government In the Second He Deposes Himself In the Third The want of Power Deposes him Theses 135 136 137. It is lawful for any who have the Power to call to Accompt a Tyrant or Wicked King And after due Conviction to Depose and put him to Death if the Ordinary Magistrate have Neglected or Deny'd to do it It is not impossible for a King Regis Personam Exuere In a Natural Or MORAL Madness or Frenzy to turn Tyrant Yea Beast Waiving his Royal Place Violently Extrajudicially Extramagisterially to assault his Subjects as Saul did David In this Case Men think Nature doth Dictate it and Scripture doth Justifie a Man Se Defendendo Vim Vi repellere P. 23. The Real Soveraignty among Us was in King Lords and Commons and if the King raise War against such a Parliament The King may not only be resisted but Ceaseth to be a King Thesis 358. The Lord rent the Kingdom from Saul for sparing One Agag and for want of thorough Extirpation of all the accursâ—…d Things He lost both Thanks for What He had done and Kingdom also P. 27. Let no Law hinder Ye If Law be to be broken it is for a Crown and therefore for Religion Ye are set over Kingdoms to Root out Pull down Destroy and Throw down Do it quickly Do it thorougly By what Rule of Conscience or God is a State Bound to Sacrifice Religion Laws and Liberties rather then endure that the Princes Life should come into any Possibilities of Hazard by Defending them against those that in his Name are bent to suâ—…due them If he will needs thrust Himself upon the Hazard when he needs not Whose Fault is That There never was a Greater Harmony of the Laws of Nature Reason Prudence and Necessity to Warrant any Act then may be found and discern'd in that Act of Justice on the Late King P. 18. Touching the Righteousness of the Sentence past upon the King Doubtless never was any Person under Heaven Sentenc'd with Death upon more Equitable and Just Grounds P. 90. Praised be God Who hath delivered us from the Impositions of Prelatical Innovacions Altar-Genu-flections and Cringings with Crossings and All That Popish Trash and Trumpery And truly I speak no more then what I have often thought and said The Removal of those Insupportable Burdens countervails for the Blood and Creasure shed and spent in these late Distractions Nor did I ever as yet hear of any Godly Men that desired Were it Possible to Purchase their Friends or Money again at so dear a Raâ—…e as with the Return of These To have Those Soul-Burdening Antichristian Yokes re-imposed upon Us. And if any such there be I am sure that Dâ—…sire is no part of their Godliness and I profess my self in That to be None of the Number P. 23. V. The PERSONS of Princes may be resisted though not their AUTHORITY The Man who is King may be resisted but not the Royal Office The King in Concreto but not the King in Abstracto P. 265. He may be resisted in a Pitch't Battel and with Swords and Guns 324. That is His Private Will may be resisted not his Legal Will 269. Neither is He in the Field as a King but as â—…n unjust Invader and Grassator 334. If He chance to be Slain 'T is but an Accident and who can help it 324. He is guilty of his own Death Or let Them answer for 't that brought Him thither The Contrary Party is Innocent 273. The King's Authority is with the Two Houses though the Person of Charles Stuart be not there His Capacity was at Westminster when his Body was upon the Scaffold at Whitehall c. P. 18. VI. The King is SINGULIS MAJOR UNIVERSIS MINOR The King is in Dignity Inferior to the People P. 140. The Soveraign Power is Eminently Fontaliter Originally and Radically in the People 156. Detrahere Indigno Magistratum etsi Privati non Debeant Populus tamen Universus quin possit Nemo Opinor dubitabit It is not for Private Persons to Depose a
Assemblies and whensoever they shall think fit to say that the Good of the Church the Glory of God or any Spiritual end is concerned They make no Scruple in the World of Levying Armes Men Monies Seizing of Castles and Forts Issuing out of Warrants for Members of Parliament They impose Oaths and Covenants against the King Himself Encounter Proclamations with Anti Protests Rescind Acts of Counsels c. And what 's the colour for all this Haughtiness and State The Ministers forsooth are Christs Deputies and their Acts are Christ's Ordinances whereas Iudges Counsellers and Parliaments are but the King's Substitutes and their Laws only Humane Presb. You are not any more to conclude against the Presbyterial Government from the President of some Factious Assemblies than against the Constitution of Parliaments from the President of some Seditious Compositions and Elections Indep Neither do I charge these Imposing Usurpations upon the Confederacy of a Cabal or a Faction but upon the Original Scope and Mystery of the Discipline for I find them rooted in the very Foundation of their Policy Their Pragmatical Intermedling in Civil Affairs and Matters of State is warranted by their Book of Government where it is said that The Minister handleth External things only for Conscience cause Now I would faâ—…n know That Notion which may not some way or other be made Relative to Conscience For Limiting the Magistrate in the Exercise of his Power they have this Plea that though the Ministers do not EXERCE the Civil Iurisdiction they TEACH the Magistrate how it should be Exercised according to the Word So that the Prince is put to Schoole to the Masterships of his Parish to learn every point and circumstance of his Duty Now for the Absolute and Boundless Iurisdiction of their General Assemblies They tell us not only that The Kirk is to appoint Times and Places convenient for their Meeting but that as well Magistrates as Inferiours are to be SUBIECT to the IUDGMENT of the same in Ecclesiastical Causes without any Reclamations or APPEAL to any Iudge Civil or Ecclesiastical Is not this a Dethroning of Majesty to set Princes and Peasants upon the same Level in point of Subjection to their Resolutions and Decrees Presb. Not at all For the Magistrate is to assist and maintein the Discipline of the Kirk And punish them Civilly that will not obey the Censure of the same Indep In truth it is a Goodly Office you have allotted the Chief Magistrate to set him Cheek by Iowle with the Beadle of the Parish You are to direct the Punishment and He is to Execute it But what if he should prove Refractary and dispute yoâ—…r Authority In Case of Contumacy He is as Liable to Censure you say as another person And then you have no more to do but to resort to your ordinary Method of Calling in the Noblemen Barons Gentlemen Burgesses and Commons to your Assistance against him Let me now marque to you two Passages in your Discipline that make two shrewd discoveries A Minister you say must not frequent and commonly haunt the COURT unless either sent by the Kirk or called upon by Authority for his Counsel and Iudgment in CIVIL AFFAIRS And afterwards you say that Ministers may and should assist their Princes when required in all things agreeable to the Word whether it be in COUNSEL or PARIAMENT or otherwise Provided that through Flattery of Princes they hurt not the Publique state of the Church Whence it appears First that simple Presbyters may do well enough in Parliaments or Councils though Bishops are Excluded were it not Secondly for the danger of creating a Kindness betwixt the King and the Kirk which in consequence would frustrate the main Design For the Prime end of this Church Policy is the Overtopping and Subjecting of the Secular Power and it was wisely done to temper the very Foundation of it with Principles of Opposition to the Order and well Being of Civil Government SECT XXIX The Question of Toleration â—…etwixt Presbytery and Independency Debated with regard to the Foundation and Execution of the LAW Presb. WHat if you had put the Question betwixt a Peaceable and Obedient sort of people and a Generation of men that cannot live out of Contention Indep The mâ—…n of Contention I suppose you would have me understand to be the Independents What 's the Quarrel to them upon the matter now before us Presb. Only This that they are Intolerable in any Government How many Plots have they had upon this Kingdom since his Majesties Return There was Venner's Rising A Conspiracy in the North Another in Ireland Indep And all this while yâ—…u forget the Rebellion in Scotland which was professedly Presbyterian beside that These disorders which you speak of were nothing at all to the Independents But one way or other these Instances are to no purpose without some Authoritative Allowance and Pray'e let us agree upon it that only the Conclusions of the Kirk on the one hand and of the Church on the other may be Insisted upon as the Acts of either Party Presb. I do not find that the Independent Churches come to any Resolutions at all Indep You have the less to say then against their Principles and I wish the Indepâ—…ents could say the same thing for the Presbyterians How far I beseech you are Humane Laws Binding Presb. â—…o far forth as they are agreeable to the Word of God Indep And who shall Determine what Laws and Constitutions are agreeable to God's Word Presb. The Church Lawfully Constitute which all Godly Princes and Magistrates ought to hear and to obey their voice and reverence the Majesty of the Son of God speaking in them Indep I need not ask what Church that is For Iohn Mâ—…rellius was Excommunicate for mainteyning in a certain Treatise That TELL THE CHURCH did not belong to the Consistâ—…ry and the Book was burnt But to the Poynt If the Word of God be the Rule for Humane Laws and the Presbytery the sole Expounders of the Word of God the Law of the Nation is at the Mercy of the Kirk already for 't is but saying that This or That Law is not Agreeable to the Word of God and there 's an end on 't Presb. The Kirk has Power to Abrogate and Abolish all Statutes aâ—… Ordinances concerning Ecclesiastical Matterâ—… that are found nâ—…ysome and unproâ—…table and agree not with the â—…ime or are abused by the People Indep If the Kirk has This Power the Pope Himself pretends to nothing beyond it Are not your Determinations as pereâ—…ptory and your Orders as Imperious But I am speaking here as to the Latitude of your Pretended Iurisdiction You may abrogate All Statutes you say CONCERNING Ecclesiastical Matters And I say on the other side that you may upon that Ground abrogate all the Statutes in the Christian World for I defie the whole race of Mankind to shew me any one Law extant or
the very supposition of a Law possible which may not some way or other be said to CONCERN Ecclesiastical Matters Presb. You take no notice how this Power is clogg'd with Limitations If they be found Unprofitable Unseasonable or to be abused by the People Indep Very good And if the Kirk shall think fit to find them so or so Pray'e What Remedy Bâ—…t their own Avowed Actions and Declarations are the Best Comments upon their own Principles Under King Iames in Scotland nothing was more ordinary then over-Ruling Acts of Parliament by the Acts of the Assembly Did they not erect a Counsel of the Church in Edenborough 1596. and take upon them to Convene Examine and Censure at pleasure such as they suspected to hold any Correspondence with certein Excommunicate Lords did they not also appoint to meet in Armes at the Tryal of them Nor did they think it enough to Rescind or supersede Acts of Parliâ—…ment and General Assâ—…mblies but People must be Quâ—…stion'd too for yielding Obedience to Acts of Parliament and of General Counsels under Colour of Unjust Laws Wee 'l close this particular with the Judgment of the Commissioners of the General Assembly of Scotland of May 5. 1648. The Authority of Parliament is one thing an Act of Parliament another thing We do still acknowledg their Authority when we obey not This or That Act. And whatsoever be the TREASON of Impugning the Authority of PARLIAMENâ—… It can be no Treason to obey GOD rather then MAN Neither did the General Assembly of Glasgow 1638. and such as were active for the Covenant at That time commit any Treason when they Impugned Episcopacy and Pâ—…rch Articles although ratify'd and strengthen'd by Acts of PARLIAMENT and standing LAWS then Unrepealed Presb. When we have once gotten Power into our hands we are all too apt to abuse it But I cannot yet perswade my self that the Root of these Practises is to be found in their Principles Their Books of Discipline are Publick and no Government would ever entertein it if there were such danger in it Indep How was the Covenant entertein'd or who would have dream'd of any harm in a League for the Preservation and Defence of the King's Majestie 's Person and Authority And yet the Presbyterian Interpretation and Salvo of Subordinating his Majesties SAFETY and PRESERVATION to the Defence of the TRUE RELIGION immediately following and the Kirks assuming to Themselves the Judgment of that Religion brought both King and Church to Destruction Nor can you choose but Observe the Holy Discipline and Covenant to be both of a Stile and both of a Design Their Claim concerning Ecclesiastical Matters hooks in all Laws and In the Defence of the true Religion They usurp an Authority over all Magistrates This Discipline at the best is but a Worm at the Root of Civil Government Wheresoever it comes the Secular Power hangs the head and droops upon it and never thrives after But to Sovereign Princes a man might say of it as God said to Adam of the Apple In the day you eat thereof you shall dye the death Now as it is manifestly destructive of Law in the very Foundations of it to carry an Appeal from all Temporal Governours and Constitutions to the Scepter and Sentence of Christ sitting upon his TRIBUNAL in the PRESBYTERY the Language of Beza himself so likewise have they their Preparatory Artifices for Obstructing the Execution of Law and for the Weakening and Distracting of a Government before they enter upon the Great Work of Dissolving it And this is effected by the Trojan Horse as one calls it of their Excommunication that carries all the Instruments and Engines of Publique Ruine and Confusion in the belly of it By Virtue of this Device they do not only impose upon all Ministers and Courts of Justice but they may when they please as Hooker observes send out their Writs of Surcease and fetch in the whole Business of Westminster-Hall to the Bar of the Consistory Or at the fairest according to Beza's Distinction if they allow the Civil Iudg to try the Fact as mere Civile yet de Iure Controverso Ecclesiasticum Synâ—…drium constat Respondisse The Church was to determine in matter of Law and the Civil Magistrate after That to pronounce Sentence according to That Decision Briefly Beza gives the Presbytery the same Power under the Gospel which was Exercised by the Synagogue under the Law But now to the Point of your Excommunication and to shew you in what manner it is apply'd to hinder the Execution of Law and to obstruct Civil Iustice. By One Clause of your Discipline You may Abrogate what Laws you please concerning Ecclesiastical Matters And by Another The Minister is Authorized to handle External things for Conscience Cause So that your Authoritâ—… is without Controul in Ecclesiastical Matters and so is your Liberty of handling Civil Matters as Ecclesiastical Upon which Bottom was founded an Assertion not long since mainteined at the Savoy i. e. That the Command of a most Lawful Act is sinful if That Act commanded may prove to any One a Sin per Accidens Now if the Kirk shall think fit to Abrogate a Law as nothing more frequent whoever shall presume to Execute That Law is sure to be Excommunicate And the Supreme Magistrate himself is no less lyable to Church Censure for not Executing That Sentence then the Inferior Magistrate was for his Original Disobedience The Bishop of St. Andrews in 1586 was Excommunicate for Advising King Iames to a Declaration against Certein Fugitive Ministers that were denounced Rebels and Contriving the Statutes of 1584. touching The Kings Authority in Ecclesiastical Causes Knox is for Excommunication in all Crimes that are Capital by the Law of God and in effect for the Churches Tryal of the very Fact It was not for nothing that the Two Houses held the Assembly so long in Play upon this Point and in Despight of all Importunities to the Contrary kept the staffe still in their own Hands and reserved to Themselves the Ultimate Appeal in Cases of Excommunication Presb Was it not rather the Work of the Independents Who to say the Truth were as much against any Settlement at all as against That And against the very Convening of the Assembly it self Indep And they had done the State a good Office if they had totally hindred it But this is beside our Business We have said enough as to the Dangerous Influence of Presbytery upon the Security of his Majesty and the Law It remains now to be considered with a respect to the Rights and Liberties of the People SECT XXX The Question of Toleration betwixt Presbytery and Independency Debated with a Regard to the Rights Liberties and Advantages of the PEOPLE Indep YOU see how it is with Kings Parliaments and Laws under the Dominion of Presbytery We are now to look into the Condition of the Nobility Gentry Commonalty and of the Presbyterial Clergy it self under
and the Wife Presb. These are Objections rather of Passion and Extravagance then of Argument Indep They are no other then such Conclusions as the Premisses will very well bear Presb. I have heard indeed of several Wild and sensless Scruples charg'd upon the Independents As that they have made it a matter of Religion to Piss abed and ride Hobby-Horses because it is said Except ye become as little Children ye shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven Matth. 18. 3. Indep Pray give me leave to requite You with three or four Presbyterian Scruples out of Bancrofts Survey of the Pretended Holy Discipline page 368. Move Mr. Cartwright and some other Our Reverend Brethren to deliver their Iudgments Whether all laying out of Hair be forbidden to all Women especicially at their Repair to the Publick Meetings of the Church A Question riseth in my Mind Whether one that Professeth Christ truly may according to the same Profession delight in and use Hawking and Hunâ—…ing so no Unchristian Behaviour otherwise be joyned therewith Let me know your Iudgment particularly Whether it be in any respect tolerable for Women that profess Religion and the Reformation to Wear Dublets Little Hats with â—…eathers great Gowns after the French and Outlandish Fashion Great Ruffes and Hair either Cuâ—…led or Frisled or set out upon Wires and such like Devices I would be glad to have your Iudgment in the Fourth Commandment Whether the strict Prohibition of not kindling Fire on the Sabbath be of the Substance of the Moral Precept In the same Author you will find a Catalogue of Pleasant Names too The Lord is Near. More Tryal Reformation Discipline Ioy again Sufficient From above Free Gifts More Fruit. Dust. And in the next Page he tells you of one Snape that proceeded toward the Baptizing of a Child till they came to Name it Richard and then brake off for fear it would not have prov'd a Christian if he had so Baptized it I cannot pass from these Phantastical Absurdities in your Practises without some Reflection upon those in your Constitution To say nothing of your Disagreements among your selves about your Officers and Discipline What can be more Ridiculous than to Authorize a Cobler to Correct Majesty Mechanicks to Determine in Points of Faith Are not your Elders joyn'd in Commission with your Ministers for the Examination of the Person that offers himself to the Ministry in all the Chief Points in Controvorsie betwixt us and the Papists Anabaptists Arrians c Are not the Elders and Deacons fit Persons think ye to be made Iudges of Theological Niceties and to Admonish and Reprove a Minister that Propones not faithful Doctrine Has not your General Assembly rather the Face of a Council of State then of a Counsel of the Church And in Truth the Business too Behold the Composition I beseech ye of the Pretended Assembly at Glasgow 1638. Seven Earls Ten Lords Forty Gentlemen And One and Fifty Burgesses to Determine of Faith and Church Censures Now to take a Brief View of the whole What greater Slavery in the world can be imagined then to live in Subjection to a Government where you shall have neither Freedom of Conscience Law Person or Fortune Where you shall not Speak Look Move Eat Drink Dress your self Nay not so much as entertein a Thought but at your Peril And to be in This Bondage too unto the Meanest and most Insolent of your Fellows For none but such will ever engage themselves in the Exercise of so Inhumane a Tyranny And for a further Aggravation of the Shame and Guilt of the Faction Let me desire you but to cast an eye upon their Proceedings under King Iames in Scotland and here under Queen Elizabeth where you shall find that they were never so Impetuous and Bold as when they found the King and the State in Distress upon the Apprehension of Forreign Dangers And so for the Queen upon the business of Eighty Eight Whereas the Independents never so confined themselves to the Prosecution of their Private Interests as to Hazard the Betraying of their Countrey to Forreigners And particularly in the Late Engagements at Sea against the French and Dutch many of them have given Signal Testimony and Proof of their Fidelity and Valour I should not have Engross'd This whole Discourse to my self but in Persuance of a Point wherein you have Confest before-hand that you had nothing further to oppose That is to say Concerning the Principles of the Parties in Question Neither is any thing I have hitherto deliver'd to be taken as a Challenge and Claim of a Toleration of such a Quality as to enter into a Competition with the Peace and Security of the Publique But This I prâ—…mise my self that if it shall appear reasonable to Authority to allow of any Relaxation The Independents Plea upon all Considerations of Common Equity and Safety will stand good against That of the Presbyterians From whose Triple-Crown'd Consistory that Lords it Over Souls Bodies and Estates Over Kings Nobles and Commons Over Laws Magistrates and all Sorts and Ranks of Men and Interests That turns Gospel into Law Communities into Deserts Men into Beasts GOOD LORD DELIVER US THE END a Amesius de Consci b Indulg Toler p. 13. c Liberty of Conscience upon its true and proper Grounds p 3. d Free Disputation p. 3. Indulg Toler p. 13. Rom. 2. 14. Laud against Fisher p. 197. Rom. 7. 7. Rom. 4. 15. Rom. 5. 13. 1 Tim. 1. 13. Indulg Toler p. 13 14. Mat. 5. 5. Luke 19. 27. * In his Book of the Covenant Mat. 24. Sleydan's Comment l. 4. Davila delle Guer. Civ di Fran. l. 10. Ibid. Lib. 14. Strada de Bello Belgieo l. 5. Liberty of Consc. upon its true and proper Grounds p. 12. Disc. of Relig. Preface Institur de Libertate Christiana 1 Joh. 4. 3. â—…5 Lib. of Consc. p. 37. Lib. of Consc. p. 38. Liâ—… of Consc. p. 24. Lib. of Consc. p. 13 14. Lib. of Consc. p. 27. Lib. of Consc. p. 56. Ex. Coll. p. 2. 3. a Ex. Coll. p 84. b p. 339. c p. 609. d p. 764. e p 392. Ex. Coll. p. 533. p. 494. Spotswood Hist. Scotl. p. 487. Ibid. p 479 Mr. Baxter's Holy Common-wealth Printed 1659. Robert Douglass his Serm. Preach't at Scoone Ian. 1. 1651. Printed 1660. I. Goodwin's Anti-Cavalerism The Observator Right and Might well met Anno 1648. Parliament Physick Ahab's Fall Interest of England in the matter of Religion 1660. The Peoples Cause stated An. 1662. Lex Rex An. 1644. Ius Populi 1644. Declarat touching the 4 Bills March 13. 1647. Viâ—…dicia contra Tyrannos Printed 1648. Tenure of Kings 1649. Goodwin's Defence of the King's Sentence Mr. Baxter's Holy Common-wealth Tenure of Kings 1649. A Survey of the Grand Case Printed 1663. Mr. Baxter's Holy Common-wealth Mr. Faircloth before the Commons Mr. Sympson Scripture and Reason for Defensive Arms. 1643. English 〈◊〉
Title to it by Eating Flesh on Fasting-days 'T is the same thing as to the Place Command them to Church They will tell you There is no Inherent Holiness in the Walls The Hearts of the Saints are the Temples of the Lord Is not God to be found in a Parlour as well as in a Steeple-house Finally What have they to say for all This But that This is One Man's Judgment That Another's This or That may be indifferent to you but not to me To conclude What One Man urges All may and in All Cases as well as in Any Which has brought us once again to an indeterminable Liberty The last Resort of all the Champions of your Cause if they be followed home Now if you can assign any other Arbitrator of this Matter then the Civil Power do it If you cannot let us proceed N. C. Go forward then SECT IV. Thâ—… BOUNDS of Toleration And the Error of making Fundamentals and Non-Fundamentals to be the Measure of it C. IN the Question of Toleration says a Learned Prelate the Foundation of Faith Good Life and Government is to be secured Wherein is comprised a Provision and Care that we may live as Christians toward God As Members of a Community toward one another and as Loyal Subjects toward our Sovereign If you 'l take This for the Standard of your Toleration we have no more to do but to apply Matters in Controversie to the Rules of Christianity Good Manners and Government and to entertein or reject all Pretensions thereafter as we find them Agreeable or Repugnant to Religion Morality and Society N. C. Uery well stated truly I think C. All the Danger is the falling to pieces again when we come to bring This and That to the Test. For if we differ at last upon the Application of Particular Points and Actions to the General Heads of Faith and Government already laid down and agreed upon We shall yet lose our selves in Uncertainty and Confusion N. C. There will be no fear of That if we tye up our selves to Fundamentals C. What do you mean by Fundamentals N. C. There are Fundamentals of Faith that bind Us as we are Christians And there are Fundamentals of Practice that oblige us as we are Members of a Community From These Fundamentals there lies no Appeal to Conscience In other Matters which we look upon as Non-Fundamental we think it reasonable to Desire a Toleration C. This Distinction has a fair Appearance but there is no trusting to it First it proposes a thing neither Practicable nor Reasonable which is The Uniting of all People under one Common Bond of Fundamentals What possibility is there of attaining such an Agreement among so many Insuperable Diversities of Judgment as reign in Mankind Insomuch that what is a Fundamental Truth to One is a Fundamental Error to Another and Every Man is ready to abide the Faggot for his own Opinion It is also very unreasonable to exact it God Almighty does not require the same Fundamentals from all Men alike But Much from Him to whom Much is given and Little from Him to whom Little And from All according to their differing Degrees and Measures of Grace and Knowledg You will likewise find your self under great Uncertainty about the Stating of your Fundamentals For divers Circumstances of Little or No value in Themselves become Fundamental in respect of their Consequences As for Instance That Christ died for Sinners I presume shall be one Article of your Faith But whether upon Mount Calvary or some other part of the Neighbourhood seems of no great Moment as to the Main of Our Salvation And yet he that denies that Our Saviour suffer'd upon Mount Calvary puts as great an Affront upon the Veracity of the Holy Ghost in the Gospel as He which denies that he suffer'd upon the Cross. N. C. I give it for Granted that from some more is required from others less In proportion to their Differing Gifts and Graces But then there are some Principles so Essential to Christianity and so clear in Themselves as to admit of no Dispute C. Saving That Grand Foundation of Our Faith that Iesus Christ is come in the Flesh and that Whosoever confesses that Iesus Christ is the Son of God God dwelleth in Him and He in God Saving I say That Radical Principle which if we disbelieve we are no longer Christians There is scarce One Point that has not been subjected to a Controversie If you reduce your Fundamentals to This Scantling Your Creed will lie in a very Narrow Compass But your Toleration will be Large Enough if you are at Liberty for the rest Touching the Clearness of them I do not comprehend it For Supernatural Truths hold no Proportion at all with the Ordinary Motions of Humane Reason If They be so clear Tell us What they are Where we shall look for them and How we shall know them when we have found them N C. Where should we look for the Foundation of our Faith but in the New-Testament of Jesus Christ C. But still we do not all read the Bible with the same Spectacles To draw to an Issue Generals conclude nothing so long as we are left at Freedom to wrangle about Particulars and you will find much surer footing upon the Foundations of Establish'd Law then upon the Whimseys of Popular Speculation To my thinking the Doctrine and Discipline of the Church of England as it is settled by Acts of Parliament with other Legal Constitutions for the Peace and Order of the Government are every whit as competent a Provision for the Good of the Publique as your new Fundamentals N. C. The Point is not as you seem to understand it a Competition between Our Fundamentals of Notion and Yours of Law But an Inquiry concerning the Limits of a Iustistable Toleration C. Very Good And you refer us to your Distinction of Fundamentals and Non-Fundamentals as to a Rule how far we are at Liberty and wherein we are Bounded But This will not do the work and I have spent the more words about it because I find This Distinction the Ordinary Retreat of Your Party The Truth of it is there 's not One of a Hundred of you but takes This Question by the wrong Handle You make it a Question of Conscience and Religion What may be Tolerated and what not Whereas the thing falls properly under a Consideration of State In Matters not to be Tolerated as in Articles of Religion The Magistrate is positively bound up In other Cases He may chuse whether he will Tolerate or Restrain That is to say with a perpetual Regard to the Qâ—…iet and Security of the Publique Where Particulars may be relieved without Inconvenience to Communities it is well But otherwise Private Consciences weigh little in the Scale against Political Societies And Toleration is only so far allowable as it complies with the Necessities and Ends of Government N. C. That is to say according to your first
a Total Dissolution of Ecclesiastical Order and Consequently to a Confusion both in Church and State N. C. I do not find my self much press'd by any thing now offer'd If a Toleration unhinges the Law 'T is but making the Law a little Wider and then that Block is removed And so is the Fear likewise of bringing present Importunities into President For All Tolerable Liberties may be comprehended within that Latitude And as to the matter of Imposing Faction for Conscience such a Probiston secures You as well as the Act for Uniformity C. I have spoken as much as Needs to this Point If you think you have any Right to a Toleration make it out and Approve your selves for a Generation of People to Whom the King may with Honour and Safety Extend a Bounty SECT VII The Non-Conformist's Plea for Toleration upon REASON OF STATE C. THe Ordinary Motives to Indulgence are These Three 1. Reason of State 2. The Merits of the Party 3. The Innocence and Modesty of their Practises and Opinions What have you to say now for a Toleration upon Reason of State N. C. The Non-Conformists are the King's Subjects and What 's a King without his People C. By Birth and Obligation they are the King's Subjects but if they be not so in Practise and Obedience They have no longer any Title to the Benefit of his Protection And such Subjects are the worst of Enemies N. C. You will not deny them however to be a Numerous Party And a People of Conduct and Unity Which puts the Government under some kind of Prudential Necessity to oblige so Considerable an Interest C. If they be consequently Dangerous because they are Numerous The Greater the Number is the greater is the Hazard And therefore because they are many already and will encrease if they be suffer'd They are not to be Tolerated N. C. But Men will be much more Peaceable when they are Indulged then when they are Persecuted C. Now I am perswaded that the Multitude will be much quieter without a Power to do Mischief then with it But what is your Opinion of the Honesty of the Party N. C. I do seriously believe the Non-Conformists to be an Honest Consciencious sort of People C. But they must be Knaves to make Good Your Argument for if they be Honest They 'l be quiet without a Toleration If they be Dishonest They 'l be Dangerous with it Consider again If there be any Hazard it lies not in the Number but in the Confederacy A Million of Men without Agreement are but as One Single Person Now They must Consult before they can Agree and They must Meet before they can Consult So that barely to hinder the Assembling of these Multitudes frustrates the Danger of Them Whereas on the other side To Tolerate Separate Meetings is to Countenance a Combination N. C. Mistake me not I do not say 't is likely they will be troublesome in Respect of their Temper and Iudgments but that they are Considerable enough to be so in Regard of their Quality and Number C. Whether do you take to be the Greater Number Those that singly wish to be discharg'd from the Act of Uniformety Or Those that would have no Law at all Those that are troubled because they may not Worship according to their Fancy Or Those that are displeased because they cannot Live and Rule according to their Appetite The Truytor would have One Law discharg'd The Schismatick Another The Idolater a Third The Sacrilegious Person a Fourth The Profane Swearer a Fifth The False Swearer a Sixth The Murderer a Seventh The Seducer an Eighth And in sine Not One of a Thousand but had rather Command then Obey Shall the King therefore dissolve the Law because there are so many Criminals That were to raise an Argument against Authority from the very Reason of its Constitution Shall the People be left to do what they list because a World of them have a Mind to do what they should not Shall his Majesty give up his Government for fear of some Millions perchance in his Dominions that had rather be Kings then Subjects Less forcible beyond Question is the Necessity of the King 's Granting a Toleration if you reckon upon Numbers then That of Renouncing his Sovereignty For doubtless where there is One Man that is truly Scrupulous there are hundreds of Avaricious Ambitious and otherwise Irreligious Persons N. C. Tell me I beseech you Do not you believe that there are more Nâ—…n-Conformists now then there were at the beginning of the Late War C. Yes I do verily believe Three to One. N. C. Why then 't is at least Three to One against You For at That time the Third Part of This Number was the Predominant Interest of the Nation C. That does not follow for you may remember that at the beginning of the late War The Party were Masters of the Tower The Navy of all Considerable Forts Towns and Magazins They had a great part of the Crown and Church Revenues under their Command and London at their Beck Beside the Plunder of Malignants and the Bountiful Contributions of the Well-affected Scotland was already Confederate with them in One Rebellion and they had made sure of Another in Ireland by Persecuting the Earl of Strafford who was the only Person Capable of Keeping them Quiet Which they further assisted by a Gross Opposition of his Majesties Proposals and Resolutions to suppress it See the King's Speech of Decemb. 14. 1641. and the following Petition concerning the same Finally for the better Countenance of their Usurpations the House of Commons was drawn down into a Close Committee and the Votes of that Iunto were Impos'd upon the Nation as the Acts of a Regular and Complete Authority This was their Condition formerly but blessed be God it is not so at present The Three Kingdoms are now at Peace and we have a Parliament that is no Friend to the Faction The King is Possest of a Considerable Guard which his Royal Father wanted The Militia is in safe Hands His Majesty is likewise possest of his Regal Power and Revenue And his Capital City firm in its Obedience To all which may be added that although divers Particulars are as Wealthy as Pillage and Pardon can make them Yet They want a Common Stock to carry on a Common Cause The Thimbles and the Bedkins fail and the Comfortable In-comes of Irish Adventures Moneys and Plate upon the Propositions Confiscated Estates Twentieth Parts and Weekly Assessments and a hundred other Pecuniary Stratagems are departed from them If it be so that these People have None of these Advantages now remaining by virtue whereof they did so much Mischief before What Necessity of Tolerating for fear of Disobliging Them N. C. However It is not for your credit to say these People want Conduct by whom your selves have been worsted C. The Men that worsted us were a sort of People that Voted down Bishops
Wicked Governour But that the Universality of the People may Lawfully do it I think no Body questions Fixum Ratúmque habeatur Populi semper esse debere Supremam Majestatem P. 9. VII The People may enter into a Covenant for Reformation without the Consent of the Chief Magistrate There is much Sin in making a Covenant on Sinful Grounds and there is more Sin in Keeping it But when the Preservation of true Religion and the Vindication of Just Liberties meet in the Ground Ye may Swear and not Repent Yea if Ye Swear Ye must not Repent P. 18. Not only is That Covenant which God hath made with Us founded in the Blood of Christ but That also which We make with God P. 33. The Breach of the National Covenant is a Greater Sin then a Sin against a Commandment or against an Ordinance 158. A Sin of so high a Nature that God cannot in Honour but be avenged upon 't 159. VIII RELIGION may be Propagated by the SWORD The Question in England is Whether Christ or Anti-Christ shall be Lord or King Go on therefore Couragiously Never can ye lay out your Blood in such a Quarrel Christ shed all his Blood to save You from Hell Venture All Yours to set Him upon his Throne P. 23. Cursed be he that withholdeth his Sword from Blood that spares when God saith Strike that suffers those to escape whom God has appointed to Destruction P. 24. In the 10 of Numbers you shall read that there were Two Silver Trumpets and as there were Priests appointed for the Convocation of their Assemblies so there were Priests to sound the Silver Trumpets to Proclaim the War And likewise in the 20 of Deuteronomy you shall find there that when the Children of Israel would go out to War the Sons of Levi one of the Priests was to make a Speech to Encourage them And certainly if this were the Way of God in the Old Testament certainly much more in such a Cause as This in which Cause Religion is so entwin'd and indeed so enterlac'd that Religion and This Cause are like Hippocrates his Twins they must live and dye together You have vowed in This Covenant to Assist the Forces raised by the Parliament according to your Power and Vocation and not to Assist the Forces raised by the King neither Directly nor Indirectly P. 45. Now let me exhort you not only to chuse to serve God and to serve his Church and his Cause in this most Iust Defensive War c. 46. In vain shall you in your Fasts with Josua ly on your Faces unless you lay your Achans on their Backs In vain are the High Praises of God in your Mouthes without a Two-edged Sword in your Hands P. 31. The Execution of Iudgment is the Lords Work and they shall be Cursed that do it Negligently and Cursed shall they be that keep back their Sword from Blood in this Cause You know the Story of Gods Message unto Ahab for letting Benhadad go upon Composition P. 26. Whensoever you shall behold the hand of God in the Fall of Babylon say â—…rue Here is a Babylonish Priest crying out Alas Alas My Living I have Wife and Children to Maintein I but all this is to perform the Iudgment of the Lord. P. 30. Though as Little Ones they call for Pitty yet as Babylonish they call for Iustice even to Blood IX There lies an Appeal from the Letter of the Law to the EQUITY of it And from the Law Written to the Law of NATURE The Commander going against the EQUITY of the Law gives Liberty to the Commanded to refuse Obedience to the Letter of it There is a Court of Necessity no less then a Court of Justice and the Fundamental Laws must then speak and it is with a People in this Extremity as if they had no Ruler P. 113. The People have given the Politique Power to the King and the NATURAL Power they Reserve to Themselves 151. All Humane Laws and Constitutions are made with Knees to bend to the Law of NATURE and NECESSITY P. 85. Here is more then enough said already and to go on as far as the Matter would carry us there would be no End on 't You are now at â—…berty either to deny These to be the Positions of the Non-Conâ—… or to justifie the Positions themselves or to lay down your Plea for Toleration upon the Innocency of their Principles N. C. I am no Friend to These Positions Neither can I yet quit my Claiâ—… unless you make it out that These are the Principles of the Party which I take to be only the Errours of Individuals C. Shew me the Party and let me alone to prove These to be Their Principles But if you will not acknowledge a Party they are as you say but the Errours of Individuals though all the Non-Conformists in the Three Kingdoms should own them under their Hands You call your selves Non-Confermists and so were they that both began and carried on the Late War Great Apprehensions they had of the Designs of the Popish Party So have you Mightily offended they were at the Immoderate Power of the Bishops You again Petitioners for the taking away such Oppressions in Religion Church Government and Discipline as had been brought in and Fomented by them Your very Picture still And for Uniting all such together as joyn in the same Fundamental Truths against the Papists â—…hy removing some Oppressions and Unnecessary Ceremonies by which Divers weak Consciences have been scrupled and seem to be divided from the rest The very Platform of your Comprehension Thus far You march Hand in Hand I need not tell you what followed upon 't but Your Parts are so much alike that it looks as if We were now again upon the first Seene of the same Tragedy For a Conclusion Conformity or In-Conformity seem'd at first to be the Sum of the Question and the Discipline of the Church was made the Ground of the Quarrel The Ruâ—…ing Party in the Pretended Parliament were Non-Conformists The Army Non-Conformists The Preâ—…ended Assembly of Divines were Non Conformists The City-Ministers and Lecturers Non-Conformists And by the Solâ—…mn League and Covenant every Man that took it was to be a Non-Conformist upon pain of Damnation Now take Your Choice since Non-Conformists you are Whether you 'l Range your selves under the Parliament Your Army Your Assembly Your City-Ministers Or Your Solemn League and Covenant And let me bear the Blame if I make it not as clear as the Day That the Principles charg'd upon You are the Principles of Your Party As to your PRACTISES They haue been suitable to your POSITIONS and All those Violences have been Exercised upon the Government that were first Dictated in the Pulpit The Lawfulness of Popular Insurrections Of Deposing and Putting Kings to Death under the Cloak of Reformation has been vented as the Doctrine of Iesus Christ even
were misâ—…ed by the Example may be set right again by the Retraction and Repentance This Conclusion pronounces All Those of the old stamp that abused the People formerly under Colour of Conscience and are now at Work again upon the same Pretext without a Publique Recantation to be in a State of Impenitency and gives Us reasonably to presume that if their Consciences can Swallow and Digest a Rebellion There is no great Danger of their being Choak'd with a Ceremony Another Thing is This You do not plead for Particular Iudgments In which Case a Plea of Conscience may be allowed But every Man urges the Equity in Effect of a Toleration for all the Rest. In which Number You your selves do severally and jointly acknowledge that there are a great many People of Insociable and Intolerable Principles such as in Conscience are not to be admitted And yet herein also You profess to be guided by Impulses of Tenderness and Piety although in Opposition to the whole Course of your former Declarations and Proceedings that rise up in Judgment against You. N. C. If you grant that there may be a Plea for Particulars I shall not much trouble my self about Generals C. That Point shall come on in due time But let us look a little further yet into the General Cause for if it be not Conscience it is Confederacy SECT XIII The Conjunct Importunity of the Non-Conformists for a Toleration is a Manifest CONFEDERACY C. THis appears First from the Method of their Proceedings Secondly from the Natural Prospect and Tendency of that Method Thirdly from the Nature and Quality of their Demands and Arguments Fourthly from the Way and Manner of their Addresses and Applications Lastly from their Agreement in Matters of Dangeroâ—…s Consequence upon the Peace of the Government As to their Method The Non-Conformists of This Age â—…read in the very steps of their Predecessors and This you may observe throughout the whole History of Them even from the first time that ever the Pretence of Popular Reformation set foot in his Majesties Dominions unto This Instant This is not a Place for a Deduction of Particulars at length But a Touch from Point to Point will not be much amiss Wherefore if you please Give me a Brief Accompt of the Non-Conformists First What kind of People they are Secondly What It is They would have Thirdly What will the Kingdom be the better for Granting their Desires Fourthly What are their Grievances as the Case stands with them at present Fifthly What are they for Number and Resolution N. C. They are a People Zealous of Religion Pa. 43. An Intelligent Sober sort of Mâ—…n and Numerous among all Ranks P. 25. Peaceable and Useful in the Commonwealth Sound in the Faith Men of Conscience Evident Opposers of all Errors Pernicious to the Souls of Men and of an Evil Aspect upon the Publique Peace C. Very Good And were not the Conspirators that Seiz'd King Iames at Ruthnen 1582. as much as all This amounts to If You will believe either Themselves or the Assembly at Edinburgh in their behalf The Reforming Non-Conformists under Queen Elizabeth were Unreprovable before all Men Her Majesties most Loyal Subjects and God's Faithful Servants Most Worthy Faithful and Peinful Ministers Modest Watchful Knowing in the Scriptures and of Honest Conversation Learned and Godly says the Admonitioner Pa. 25. And Martin Senior calls them The Strength of Our Land and the Sinew of her Majesties Government The Scotch Covenanters in 1638. out-did All This for Zeal to his Majesties Person and Authority The True Religion Liberties and Laws of the Kingdom And the Two Houses at Westminster In 1642. come not behind Them in their Professions for the Defence and Maintenance of the True Religion The King's Person Honour and Estate and the Iust Rights and Liâ—…erties of the Subject Here 's Your Character Now to Your Dâ—…mands What is it You would have N. C. A Reformation of Church-Government Liturgy and Ceremonies A Bearing with weak Consciences and A Relaxation of the Prescribed Uniformity C. And This you will find to have been the Constant Pretence of the Non-Conformists if you Consult their Story from One End to the Other Not to let loose the Golden Reins of Discipline and Government in the Church But to Unburthen the Consciences of Men of Needless and Superstitious Ceremonies Suppress Innovations and Settle a Preaching Ministry c. Put the Case now that you had your Asking What would the Kingdom be the better for it N. C. It will be the better for the King Church Nobility and Gentry And there is No Nation under Heaven wherein such an Indulgence or Toleration as is desired would be more Welcome Usâ—…ful Acceptable Or more Subservient to Tranquillity Trade Wealth and Peace C. Reformation no Enemy to Her Majâ—…sty and the State is the very Title of a Desperate Libel Printed 1590. against Both. And the Humble Motioner tells You that it is for the Advantage of the Queen Clergy Nobility and Commonalty That the Wealth and Honour of the Realm will be Encreased by it c. This was the Stile too of Our Reformers in 1642. The Securing of the Publique Peace Safety and Happiness of the Realm And the Laying the Foundation of more Honour and Happiness to his Majesty then ever was Enjoy'd by any of his Royal Predecessors Now speak your Grievances N. C. We are Excommunicated Outlawed Imprison'd Our Families Starved and Beggâ—…r'd P. 8. Proceeded against with Outward Punishments Pecuniary and Corporal Nay Death it self P. 9. And all this while Trade languishes Rents fall Money scarce P. 26. Never a greater Separation Never a more General Dissatisfaction P. 27. C. Pray'e say Was it ever better since Non-Conformists came into the World Was not King Iames a Favourer of the Enemies of God's Truth and of Dissolute Persons A Discountenancer of Godly Ministers A Promise-Breaker to the Church and a Perverter of the Laws Insomuch that No man could be assured of his Lands and Life Was it any better even under the Celebrated Government of Queen Elizabeth There were Citations Degradings and Deprivations Some in the Marshalsey Some in the White-Lion Some in the Gateâ—…house at Westminster Others in the Counter Or in the Clinke Or in Bride-well Or in Newgate How many Good Mens Deaths have the Bishops been the Cause of How many have they driven to leave the Ministry and live by Physique Or to leave their Countrey Poor Men have been miserably handled with Revilings Deprivations Imprisonments Banishments and Out of This Realm they have all the best Reformed Churches through Christendom against them If This Persecution be not provided for great Trouble will come of it How your Party demean'd Themselves toward the Late King of Blessed Memory in the matter of Calumny and Reproach You may read at large in that Grand and Infamous Libel The Remonstrance of
endanger Authority as the Other For All may Iudge Thus as well as One. C. 'T is possible they may Nay we 'l suppose an Imposition foul enough to move them all to do so and yet there 's a large difference For Diversity of Iudgment does not shake the Foundation of Authority and a Man may disobey a Sinful Command with great Reverence to the Power that Imposes it N C. You were saying e'en now that my Duty to God and to the King could never be Inconsistent How shall I behave my self I pray'e if the King command one thing and God another I cannot observe the Law without violence to my Conscience nor discharge my Conscience without Offence to the Law What Course shall I take to avoid Enterfering C. Demeaâ—… your self as a Christian toward the LAW of God one the One hand and as a Subject toward the ORDINANCE of God on the Other As considering that you are discharg'd of your Obedience in That Particular but not of your Subjection in the General N. C. Put Case the Supreme Magistrate should by a Law Establish a False Worship C. He 's nevertheless your Prince and even in This Complication you may acquit your self both to God and to Caesar. Though the Worship be amiss The Magistrate is yet to be Reverenc'd and you are to divide the One from the Other in such manner as still both to Fear God and Honour the King This Loyal and Religious Separation of our Duties will set us right in the Main Controversie Where do ye find that Kings Reign upon Condition of Ruling Righteously Or that we owe them Less AFTER Misgovernment then we did Before N. C. But do you say we are bound to Honour an Idolatrous Prince This is not according to the Doctrine of many of our Grave Divines C. They are never the Better Divines for That Doctrine The Prince I tell ye you are bound to Honour though not as an Idolater Shall the Vice or Errour of the Person degrade the Order By That Rule The World must continue without a Government till we can find Men without Failings N. C. So that when it makes for your Turn you can Allow I see of Distinguishing betwixt the PERSON and the OFFICE C. Betwixt the Frailty of the One and the Sacredness of the Other I do for Kings Command as Gods though they Iudge as Men. But I do no more approve of Dividing the Person of a Prince from his Authority then of Dividing his Soul from his Body N. C. And I beseech you What is That which you call AUTHORITY C. It is the Will and Power of a Multitude deliver'd up by Common Consent to some One Person or More for the Good and Safety of the Whole And This Representative Acts for All. Now on the other side The Disposition of such or such a Number of Persons into an Order of Commanding and Obeying is That which we call a Society N. C. What is the Duty of the Supreme Magistrate C. To procure the Welfare of the People Or according to the Apostle He is the Minister of God for a Comfort to those that do Well and for a Terrour to Evil doers N. C. How far are his Laws Binding upon his Subjects C. So far as They that Parted with their Power had a Right over Themselves N. C. Whence was the Original of Power And what Form of Government was First Regal or Popular C. Power was Ordein'd of God but Specifi'd by Man And beyond doubt the First Form of Government was Monarchique N. C. But I should rather think the Popular Form was First For how could there be a King without a People C So was the Son before the Father you may say for How could there be a Father without a Son But the Qâ—…estion is First Was the World ever without a Government since the Creation of Mâ—…n Secondly Whether was there first in the World One Man or More But we are not here upon the Form of Government but upon the Latitude of Humane Iurisdiction be the Sovereignty where it will And my Assertion is that It extends to whatsoever God has left Indifferent If you deny This you overthrow all Government N. C And what are you the better If I should grant it unless we could All come to an Agreement about what is Indifferent and what not C. Which must be procured by the Allowance of some Iudicial Authority to decâ—…de it SECT XXII No End of Controversie without a FINAL and UNACCOMPTABLE JUDGE from whose Sentence there shall be no Appeal C. WHen Subjects come once to Dispute Laws The War is already Declar'd against the Government For it is not the Equity or Iniquity of the MATTER of the Law that is the Question but the AUTHORITY of the LAW-MAKER under the countenance indeed of somewhat that might be mended in the Law it self And the Business comes Immediately to This Issue Whether the King or the People shall Determine in what concerns the Good of the Community That is to say Whether the Government shall Stand or Fall Whether or no we shall submit our selves quietly to be over-ruled in all Controversies by a Definitive Sentence of Law according to the End and Intention of Government in its first Institution Or otherwise by receding from that Common Peaceable and Impartial Arbitrator of all our Differences from our Faith given our Oaths and Contracts throw our selves back again into a State of Nature and Dissolution and for want of a Moderator leave all our Disagreements to be decided by the Sword The certain Event of all Popular Appeals from Laws to Multitudes This was tbe Ruine of us in our Late Confusions The Faction you saw could do nothing upon the Suggestions of Right or Wrong Convenience or Inconvenience till they came to make Themselves the Iudges of it And no sooner were they Possest of That Pretension but all went presently head-long to Destruction From Questioning the Legal Power of the King they proceeded to the Exercise of an Arbitrary Power Themselves From Asserting the Subjects Liberties to the Invading of them And from the Reformation of Abuses to the Extirpation of the Government The Two Houses led the Dance and outed the King The Commons did as much for the Lords and the People as much for the Commons Which comes to no more then what was reasonably to be expected upon turning the Course of Publick Affairs into a wrong Channel and subjecting the Indisputable Rights of Sovereign Authority to the Censures and Expostulations of the Rabble N. C. What are those Indisputable Rights I beseech ye C. I reckon among others The Power of Making Laws and likewise of Enforcing the Execution of them without admitting any sort of Demur or Contradiction for let the People break in once upon any One Law and they will hardly quit their hold till they have worm'd out or unsettled all the Rest. In short I do esteem it a matter of Absolute Necessity to the Peace and the very Beeing
of a Religious Education C. If This be All never Trouble your selves for many an honest Man has out-liv'd more then this comes to In short There 's a huge Clamour but God knows with little Reason Some Particulars will possibly suffer for want of a Toleration and who are They but the Profest Opposers of the Law And on the Other side All the Friends of the Government will suffer by it If you would see the Event of Granting what you ask Turn but your Face toward 41 and then Blush and Repent Besides You 're not aware that in Contesting with the Law you Quarrel with your self THERE' 's YOUR OWN VOTE AGAINST YOU and all this Muttering is no other then your Factious Will wrangling with your Political Consent And yet I say Stick to your Conscience Let us now put the Case of a Real Distance betwixt This Act and your Conscience How will you divide your Duty N. C. I 'le follow your Advice and stick to my Conscience C. Now change Hands and make your self the Supreme Magistrate He has a Double Conscience One that concerns Himself the Other his People What his Majesties Personal Iudgment is has been Declared Abundantly What his Prudential Iudgment may dispose Him to lies in His Royal Brest But be That as Heaven shall Order it Here 's the Partition of your Rights The King's Prerogative has nothing to do with your Conscience and your Conscience has as little to do with His Majesties Prerogative The King is Accomptable to God for the Welfare of his People and You are only Accomptable to God for the Good of your little Particular If You cannot Obey the Law Do not But abide the Penalty If the Sovereign cannot Relax the Law He 's as Free to Execute it Your Conscience requires Liberty and your Governour 's Conscience requires Order Now why you should expect that your Sovereign should bring down His Conscience to Yours when you find upon Experiment that you cannot perswade your Own to come up to His is to me a Mystery To Conclude Keep your self within your Sphere and where you cannot Consent as a Christian Submit as a Subject that We may at last hope for some Respite from the Calamities of Sedition and Schism N. C. And why not Scandal and Profaneness too For the Edge of your Severity might be directed to much better Purpose That way SECT XXIV The Church of England charges the Non-Conformists with SCHISM and the Non-Conformists charge those of the Church with SCANDAL The Matter is taken into Debate N. C. YOur Position is That no Toleration is to be admitted to the hazzard of Religion Good Life and Government Keep to That Standard and you will find that the Conformists have as little Pretense to a Toleration as their Neighbours and that the Notorious Scandal on the one side outweighs the Objected Schism on the other C. This will scarce hold if you come to be Try'd by your own Laws which make it a Matter of Scandal by Writing Preaching or otherwise to publish a Disaffection to the Present Government But Explain your self N. C. By Scandal I mean Habitual Prophaneness Sensuality Dissolution of Manners c. As by Schism I suppose you intend our Incompliances with your Church-Discipline Weigh These Two now One against the Other and do you your self hold the Balance Set up your Tavern-Clubs against our Conventicles Oppose your Combinations against God Himself to our Plots against the Government For you must not take it Ill if I tell ye that Atheism is become the Sport and Salt of your most Celebrated Enterteinments And when you have dash'd the Bible out of Countenance with the Story of the Three Grand Impostors or some such Lashing Piece of Drollery The Questioning of God's Over-ruling Wisdom by Solemn Arguments and the Placing of Fortune in the Throne of Providence is that which commonly Crowns your Conversations C. You should not charge Personal Crimes upon a Party unless you can prove them to be rationally Consequent to the Tenets and Actings of That Party Now if you can shew me any Affinity betwixt our Principles and These Impieties you say something But if you cannot The Dust of your Argument puts out your own Eyes I do not wonder I must confess to see a Nation Over-run with Atheism that has been so many Years under your Tuition or to find the Brat of a Conventicle laid at the Church-Door N. C. May not We charge Personal Extravagancies upon your Party as well as You do upon Ours C. Yes If you can prove the same Agreement against Us betwixt the Faults of the One and the Principles of the Other which we are able to justifie against You. The Episcopal Party you know stood for the King and it is undeniable that the King and Church had the same Cause and Fate It is as unquestionable on the other side that the Non-Conformists destroy'd both the One and the Other Not by Accident neither but by a Form'd and Excogitated Design wrap'd up and couch'd in the very Mystery and Foundation of the Schism Your Separation from a Communion with the Church resolving naturally into a Combination against the Entire Frame of the Government till in the End by the help of a Peinful and Well-effected Ministry the Generality of the People were Preach'd into This Division i. e. Those that could not reach the Cheat were taught to Scruple at Every Thing and Those that went along with it to make a Conscience of Nothing And this is it that has brought us to be so Pester'd with Enthusiasts and Atheists N. C. But let me tell ye again the Atheists are of the Other Party C. And let me enform you too that your Proceedings have made Atheists more ways then One First The meer Quality of your Cause has made Atheism the Interest of a great many of your Partakers who to put off the Thought of a Divine Vengeance attending them if there be a God Endeavour for their own Quiet to perswade themselves that there is no God at all Secondly The Work has been carried on under the Masque of Holiness and the most Desperate Atheist is nothing else but a Crusted Hypocrite I speak of your Religious Atheist who has This Odds of the Profane and Scoffing Wretch that he abuses God to his Face and in his own House The Great Atheists indeed are Hypocrites says Sir Francis Bacon which are ever bandling Holy Things but without Feeling so as they must needs be Cauteriz'd in the End It is Remarquable as I have elsewhere recommended to your Observation that in the Holy Scripture there are not so many Woes pronounc'd nor so many Cautions Inculcated against any sort of People as against Hypocrites You shall there find that God has given the Grace of Repentance to Persecutors Idolaters Murtherers Adulterers c. But I am mistaken if the whole Bible yields any one Instance of a CONVERTED Hypocrite Thirdly You have done more in your Practises
Opinion in his Grand Declaration of Aug. 12. 1642. where he complains of the Tumultuous Assemblies of Brownists Anabaptists and other Sectaries Indep But still you will find in the same Page that These very People were Animated and Countenanced by Presbyterians and Acted as the Creatures and Servants of That Interest Presb. Can you say that the English or Scottish Preshyters did ever go about to Dissolve Monarchy Indep Yes And I do aver that the Nineteen Propositions of Iune 2. 1642. were as much a Dissolution of Kingly Government as the very Act it self of March 17. 1648. for Abolishing it And the Uxbridge Propositions were to the same purpose Presb. You know very well that after the New-Modelling of the Army the Presbyterians were able to do nothing and this was a good while before the King went to the Scots Indep Let us see then how the Presbyterians behaved themselves after his Majesty cast himself into the Protection of the Scotch Army before Newark in May 1646. Notice was Immediately given of it to the Two Houses by the Commissioners of the Army Importing their Adherence to the Covenant and Treaty and that they had no fore-knowledge of his Majesties Coming The English Army presently March'd with 5000 Horse and 〈◊〉 toward Newark and our Brethren fairly retreated with the Prey in the Foot toward Newcastle After This Both Parties stood at Gaze for several Months but not without a World of Tedious Papers betwixt the Scotch Commissioners and the Two Houses touching their Ioynt Right in Disposing of the Person of the King But in the Conclusion The Presbyterians Compounded the Controversie for the Sum of 400000l In May they took their Sovereign into their Protection In the December following they Sold him and in February they Deliver'd him up And All This According to their COVENANT Presb. They must needs Deliver him up when they could Keep him no longer Indep They had at that time the City of London to Friend a Balancing Vote in the House of Commons a Considerable Mixture in the Army Scotland behind them Entire if ever the Kings Interest came in Play And at least Ten Thousand Men in a Body The Royal Party over and above So that here was no visible Force to over-awe them And Lowdon himself acknowledged as much at a Conference Octob. 6. 1646. If any such Course shall be taken says he or any Demand made for Rendring of his Person which cannot stand with his Honour and Safety or which cannot consist with our Duty Allegeance and COVENANT nor with the Honour of That Army to whom in time of his Extreme Danger he had his Recourse for Safety It cannot be Expected that we can be Capable of SO BASE AN ACT And if to shun this and avoid occasion of Quarrelling between the Kingdoms He shall go to Scotland and resent his Expulsion out of England and crave the Assistance of That Kingdom for Recovery of his Right to This Crown He may in a short time raise such Forces in Scotland and Ireland as with the Assistance of Forreign Princes these Kingdoms may be made a Field of Blood c. By This it appears Evidently that They were under no Necessity of Delivering the King And you may now see their Opinion of the Action it self If it be Contrary say the Scotch Commissioners to the Law and Common Practise of Nations to Delivâ—…r up the meanest Subject fled to them though it be for the Greatest Crimes How much more would the World abroad condemn our Army for a BASE DISHONOURABLE Act if they should Deliver up their Head and SOVEREIGN having cast himself into their Hands to be Disposed of at the Arbitrâ—…ment of another Nation Presb. But yet you saw that they Condition'd for his Honour Freedom and Safety Indep That 's a Shuffle For upon such Terms did they render him that they might have cast a Sheep into a Herd of Wolves with as much Confidence and Likelihood of Safety You are here to distinguish the Fâ—…ction of Scotland from the Nation No Country affording greater Instances of Honour and Loyalty Nay I have heard even on This Occasion that upon the Kings Earnest Desire to go for Scotland It was carried in the Negative but by Two Voices Presb. Can you Imagine that if they had apprehended any Danger to his Râ—…yal Person they would not have ventur'd their Libes a thousand timeâ—… over to have sav'd him Indep No no But on the Contrary They Foresaw the Danger debated it and yet expos'd him Nay which is still worse they reserv'd him for it Were not his Majesties Friends kept from him by a strict Order at Newcastle Was he not Spied and Guarded for fear of an Escape And upon Information that He intended one Was not a narrower Watch set over him That they foresaw the Danger is confest by the Chancellor Himself Lest we should walk in the Dark says he upon Obscurity of Ambiguous Words I shall desire that the Word of Disposing of the Kings Person may be rightly understood For Dolus versatur in Universalibus For to Dispose of the Person of the King as Both Houses or Both Kingdoms shall think fit may in some sense be to DEPOSE or WORSE And in a Speech to his Majesty he goes yet further If your Majesty says he shall refuse to assent to the Propositions which God forbid you will lose all your Friends lose the City and the Country and All England will joyn against you as one Man And when all hope of Reconciliation is past it is to be feared they will Process and Depose you and set up another Government Upon your Majesties refusing the Propositions both Kingdoms will be Constreined for their mutual Safety to Agree and Settle Religion and Peace without you which to our unspeakable Grief will ruine your Majesty and your Posterity And if your Majesty reject our Faithful Advice and lose England by your Wilfulness your Majesty will not be permitted to come and ruine Scotland Presâ—… These Propositions I suppose were of Absolute Necessity to the Well-Being of the Publique they would never have been brought in Competition else with the Kings Freedom Life and Dâ—…gnity Indep The King was first to Iustifie the Prâ—…ceedings of the Two Houses and to deliver up to Death Beggery and Infamy his Whole Party 2. To Settle the Militia of England and Ireland in the Hands of the Parliament for Twenty Years giving them Authority to raise Men and Moneys 3. To make vâ—…id all Honours since 1642 and no Peers admitted for the future to Sit â—…nd Vote in Parliament but by Consenâ—… of Both Houses who were likewise To dispose of all Great Places and Offices of Honour in England and Ireland 4. His Majesty was to Swear and Sign the COVENANT and Command the taking of it throughout the Three Kingdoms Abolishing Episcopacy and Settling Religion as Both Houses should Agree Upon his Majesties Refusal to Sign These Propositions the Scotch Declaration of Ian.