Treason's Master-piece OR A CONFERENCE Held at WHITEHALL BETWEEN OLIVER The late USURPER AND A COMMITTEE OF The then pretended PARLIAMENT Who desired him To take upon him the Title of KING of England c. with an intent to exclude the ROYAR LINE WHEREIN Many of the Leading-men of those times did by unanswerable Arguments assert and prove MONARCHY to be the only legal ancient and necessary form of Government in these Kingdoms Collected by a faithful hand LONDON Printed for Daniel Major at the Hand and Scepter in Fleetstreet near St. Duâ—stan's-Church 1680. THE PREFACE IT may be said and that very truely That this Island of Great Britain which though so called is but as it were a Span of ground if compared with many Islands in the Universe hath been a greater Stage or Field of Blood for many Centuries of years last past than any other Island or Nation in the world though of far larger Dimensions and capacity of People And what hath been the occasion of those tragical Revolutions which have happened therein especially in the last Age is too easie for any impartial man to judge if he observe the Series of the several Passages from 1641 to 1659. The strange Jealousies of the Government which had crept into the minds of the People and the desire of Change a thing natural to the Vulgar together with the subtile Artifices of the principal Engines of the late Confusions who stimulated the Disloyalty of the People under a specious pretence of Piety and Reformation when indeed nothing but Covetousness and vile Ambition as the chief End and Rebellion as the means to attain to that End lay like the Snake in the Grass did diffuse such a general Infection through the Veins of the whole Kingdom as if nothing but the Swords of the Incendiaries could have been the Instruments to let out that ill Bloud They directed their Points against the credulous People as well as against the King who they said had offended They slaughtered many and many thousands of poor cheated and deluded men as well as embrued their hands in the bloud of their sacred and lawful Soveraign They deceived their ignorant Fellow-subjects as the Turkish Emperours are mentioned in Story to impose upon their common Souldiers who when their Armies were to ford any unpassable River were wont to perswade them that as many of them as would throw themselves in and make a Pile with their Bodies which should fill or dam up that depth should be sure to go to Elysium Thus did these Time-Reformers wade through the Gore of the ignorant People till they had arrived to the desired shore of their Lust and Ambition But no sooner were they gotten into the Seat of Supremacy but they fell out amongst themselves like so many Robbers for a Booty who should have the greatest share in the Spoil and Havock they had made of a Rich and Opulent Kingdom and who should be the Governours to prescribe Laws and Methods of Regiment over the People And at last the stronger Party of them found it was necessary to keep that Power they had by Arbitrary Government viz. force of Arms such a Force as before they dreamt was intended against them And when they saw their illegal form of No-Government was not like to be long-liv'd and found by Experience that the Nation could be no longer supported under nor relieved from the Exorbitancies of their confused Anarchy then they had Wit enough to prove by Arguments that MONARCHY was the onely LEGAL ANCIENT and NECESSARY Form of Government though they had not so much Honesty as to restore that King to his Throne who had Right to rule over them but endeavoured to set up an Usurper From whence may be concluded That it was not Monarchy alone they first struck at but the utter Exclusion of the Royal Line And this Artifice had certainly taken effect had it not been prevented by the under-hand Policies of Lambert and some others of the then Ring-leaders for though Cromwel made a seeming Denyal yet it might have been fatal to have trusted him too far And now Reader having said this I think I need not make any Apology for the publishing the ensuing Collection at such a time as this is a time which looks so black and dismal which seems to be as it were the Ghost or representation in Effigie of 1641 a Time wherein the Government is threatned by two vast Extreams and seems to stand inter Scyllam Charybdim And I could heartily wish that a due Consideration of what is herein contained may serve to the converting the mindes of several persons who I fear are almost ready to revive the Good Old Cause and act over the old Tragedy again And seeing Regal Government is the great Basis on which the Welfare of this Kingdom stands I wish that all English men would be so far from thinking of the alteration of this admirable Constitution as to bless Almighty God that we have a King already such a King whose transcendent Clemency towards us hath far exceeded our deserts such a King to whom next under God we owe our Laws Religion Wealth Liberty and Property and who graciously condescended to pass An Act of Oblivion upon his Restauration Therefore pray for an Establishment of the present Government to the end of days as prayeth A hearty lover of his King and Country C. C. Thursday the Ninth of April 1657. ORdered by the Parliament that a Committee be appointed to wait upon his Highness the Lord Protector in reference to what his Highness did yesterday propose in his Speech now reported to the House Resolved That this Committee have power to receive from his Highness his doubts and scruples touching any of the particulars contained in the humble Petition and Advice formerly presented and in answer thereunto to offer to his Highness reasons for his satisfaction and for the maintainance of the Resolutions of this House and such particulars as they cannot satisfie his Highness in that they report the same to the Parliament The Names of the Committee Lord Whitlock Lord Broghill Master of the Rolls Lord Commissioner Lisle Mr. Waller Lord Chief Justice Sir Charles Woolseley Gen. Montague Col. Jepson Sir Thomas Jones Sir William Strickland Col. Thistlethwait Lord Commissioner Fines Sir Richard Onslow Sir Rich. Lucy Mr. Secretary Atturney of the Dutchy Atturney General Mr. Godfrey Lord Howard Col. Jones Col. Carter Col. Whitgrave Col. Brooks Mr. Lee. Mr. Jenkinson Mr. Bampfield Mr. Drake Col. Ingoldsby Mr. Pitts Mr. Pickering Lord Cockram Mr. Grove Mr. Lloyd Mr. Nath. Bacon Mr. Ingoldsby Lord Provost of Edenb Mr. Bedfor Col. Ireland Col. Hacker Major Wagstaffe Mr. Franc. Bacon Mr. Downing Mr. Price Maj. Gen. Whaley Sir John Reynolds Mr. Steward Sir Christ Pack Mr. Lawrence Alderm Foot Capt. Lilburne Sir William Roberts Mr. Trevor Mr. Baron Parker Mr. Tigh Sir John Hobart Mr. Hamden Mr. Cromwell Mr. Throgmortou Mr. Fleetwood Mr. Philips Maj. Gen. Goffe Mr. Fowell
Parliament although you may make your hesitations yet such a thing of great weight and consequence I know this that what I have said may seem to imply as if we should fall upon a point By the Laws I can say in all Generations this is mine and this is the Princes and the Prince cannot do me wrong nor the Council do me wrong c. Therefore I think you may safely and I hope will agree to this particular as we have presented it I dare not say that your Highness as it comes as advice from Parliament ought to do so The Lord Protector I Cannot deny but the things that have been spoken have been spoken with a great deal of weight and it is not fit for me to ask of any of you if you have a mind to speak farther of this but if it had been so their pleasure truly then I think it would have put me in according to the method and way I have conceived to my self to the more preparedness to have return'd some answer and if it had not been to you a trouble I am sure the business requires it from any man in the world if he were in any case much more from me to make serious and true answers I mean such as are not feigned in my own thoughts but such wherein I express the truth and honesty of my heart I mean that by true answers I did hope that when I had heard you so far as it is in your pleasure to speak to this head I should have then taking some short notice as I did have been in a condition this afternoon if it had not been a trouble to you to have returned my answer upon a little advisement with my self but seeing you have not thought it convenient to proceed this way truly I think I may very well say that I had need have a little thoughts of the thing to return an answer to it lest your debate should end on my part with a very vain discourse and with lightness which it is very like to do I say therefore if you think to proceed farther to speak to these things I should have made my own short Adnimadversions on the whole this afternoon and made some short reply and this would have ushered me in not onely to have given the best answer I could but to have made my own objections Lord Chief Justice SInce it is your Highness pleasure that it should be spoken now altogether by those that have any thing to say I think it will be the intent of the Committee and the Parliament to give your Highness satisfaction in all particulars both substance and circumstance I confess I waited for objections from your Highness that being the principal scope of the Order Truly my Lord I stand up with no confidence that I can add any thing to what hath been said but because it pleases your Highness to do us the great favour to put us to particulars I think the question before you is but singly thus I am already Protector and I have that Office put to the Government whereby we meet the Parliament now we desire you to take upon you the Office of King why do you so That which we are to speak here is no other but that which we can understand was the sense of the Parliament in justification of what they have done I shall not speak any thing of the Government it self but to this particular I think the Office of a King is a lawful Office and the Title too approved of by the Word of God that 's plain It is plain likewise it is an Office that hath been exercised in this Nation from the time it hath been a Nation And I think it is as true that there never was any quarrel with the Office but the Male-administration that I can remember about the ill Government Oftentimes Kings have been blamed and very justly for their ill Government but we do not read that there was any Challenge by the Parliament that this Government we desire to be discharged of If that be true it is to me a strange ground having past the scrutiny of so many Parliaments where they did debate de re that in all these Debates they did not charge it upon the Nation that the place is a burthen in its own nature and this too when Parliaments have had opportunity to have changed the Government The name of KING is a name known by the Law and the Parliament doth desire that your Highness would assume that Title these are the Grounds why the Parliament make it their humble Advice and Request to your Highness that you would be pleased to assume that Title and I think there is something more in it You are now Lord Protector of the Three Nations by the Instrument and there is a Clause of this Government that you should govern according to Law and your Highness is sworn to that Government The Parliament doth apprehend that it is almost impossible for your Highness to answer the expectation of the People to be governed by the Laws and yet you are so tied up that neither they can rationally call for it nor you conscientiously do it and so there is neither Lord Protector nor the People upon a sure establishment for there stands the case A King hath run through so many Ages in this Nation and hath Governed the Nation by that Title and Stile that it is known to the Law for the Law of the Nation is no otherwise than what hath been a custom to be practised as is approved by the people to be good that 's the Law and nothing else excepting Acts of Parliament and now they have been Governed by that Title and by that Minister and by that Office If so be your Highness should do any Act and one should come and say My Lord Protector why are you sworn to Govern by the Law and you do thus and thus as you are Lord Protector do I why how am I bound to do why the King could not have done so why but I am not King I am not bound to do as the King I am Lord Protector shew me that the Law doth require me to do it as Protector if I have not acted as Protector shew me where the Law is why you put any one to a stumble in that case this is one thing that I humbly conceive did stick in the Parliament as to that particular Another thing is this you are Protector which is a new Office not known to the Law and made out of doors you are call'd upon that you would be pleased to accept that Office of a King that is by the whole people It 's the first Government that since these troubles hath been tendred by a general and universal consent of the people Another thing is this if any should find fault with them and say why how came you to make Governments in this case why the answer is we are a Parliament and have your
Constitution and likewise the ancient Foundation of the Laws of England to be the Basis of the Title of King What Changes of this nature may bring of Inconvenience with them can hardly in every particular be foreseen but it is imagined that many will be that possibly we may not be able beforehand to comprehend but there seems to be more of certainty and stability and of the Supream Authority civil Sanction upon tha Title than upon the other This I humbly apprehend to be one reason concerning both the establishment of the whole and as to that particular which I think is the first part of it your Highness seemed to intimate Master of the Rolls MAy it please your Highness I am very glad that there is such a latitude as we may shew our selves here as I know the Parliament intends to give your Highness all satisfaction as may be and truly I say upon the first head which your Highness is pleased to call a Title as if it were a bare Title which I must humbly crave pardon if I do not think nor the House did not think but it carries more in it of weight than a meer Title for upon due consideration you shall find that the whole body of the Law is carried upon this Wheel it is not a thing that stands on the top meerely but runs through the whole life and veins of the Law you cannot almost make any thing or do any thing look upon all our Laws ever since we had Laws look upon all the Constitution still there is such an interest not of the Title but of the name King besides the Title that 's not the thing for the Title you may rather tye it to the person than the thing but the word King doth signifie the person Now Sir we do see in all the ways of our proceedings in the maintaining of the Rights Properties and Interests of the people and of the Prerogative of the chief Magistrate that the very Office carries on the business and not the Title and yet it must be such a Title too as implies the Office and makes the Office suitable to the Law It 's the Office that doth dignifie the person not the person the Office I shall crave your Highness pardon if I speak any thing amiss we see that the very Office that carries on and not the Person yet that Office must have a suitableness I have observed all along that we have had many Debates that have arisen in this Nation about the thing but the ground and reason why they have adhered to this Title was for the maintenance of their Liberties not for the change of the Office I must confess I do not see that the other Title will do the same thing that other Title hath no further latitude nor extent but the very Instrument it goes no further for the very Instrument is the foundation of it we can finde no further Instrument original we have had those Names heretofore but never grounded upon the thing it self but grounded upon the Office of a King they had no Office or Duty to perform but what was under the Office and Duty of a King 't is very true it is not so now certainly for you have now a Title upon that foundation that is your Instrument and it can reach no further it is a Title that I cannot see I must confess but that we have a good Magistrate and good Officers but it may extend whither it will it hath no limit at all but the Chief Magistrate if he should prove otherwise you have no limit by it by any rule of Law that I understand If you please give me leave to tell you the very Instrument does give a foundation to the Title of Protector I am sure to cross if he please the most Fundamental Points that the Law hath There was a time when a Prince of this Nation a very late time too would change this Name and it was a very slender change for it was but from the King of England to the King of Great Britain and this was presented to the Parliament it had a Debate of many days and it was resolved there and settled that they could not change there was so much hazard in that change they knew not but that all their Rights and Liberties might be thereby altered and when the King saw he could not obtain it of the House he declared by Proclamation that he never intended to take any name upon him that should put a doubt to the Liberties and Priviledges of Parliament and caused this Proclamation to be put among the Statutes I may say it indeed very cunningly to be Printed and put among the Statutes though indeed it was none and because there was a danger he laid it down willingly only saies he your Divines in the Pulpits shall pray for me by the Title King of Great Britain and Ambassadours shall make their Address by that name but your Laws I will not alter the name In the Parliament there was a question Whether we should not alter the name of Parliament and call it The Representative of the People but the whole House went upon this ground that by changing the name of Parliament to a Representative we did not know how it might change the very course ground and reason of Parliament There is a great deal of thing in the very name I remember a very Honourable Person now with God was then very earnest for it for having this name changed and he did shew many Reasons for it but hearing the Debates and Reasons against it he sat down and was satisfied I think I may name him it was my Lord Ireton who did say he was satisfied it was not fit to be done at that time It is a famous Story in every mans mouth heretofore when there was but a little intention to change the Law it was a general Resolution given by the Lords Nolimus Leges Angliae mutare It 's doubted yea conceived not possible to annex the Laws and the Title of Protector together this I must say we come now with an intention of a perfect Settlement such as may give safety to the Nation to your Person to the People for indeed Sir they are very jealous of their Laws and Liberties and have bin in all Ages and though it may not have an intention to do such a thing yet if you have a doubt 't is better and more safe for the Chief Magistrate to keep that which hath no doubt then The Parliament laying their interest and their regard to you together and giving you this advice this is Vox populi for it is the voice of Three Nations in one Parliament Upon publick interest the chief thing is the safety of the people that safety your will your judgment nay give me leave to tell you your Conscience is bound to it for it is the principal end of Government and Governours this is presented to you by Three Nations by the
suffrage you have ever trusted us with all your Votes and we will justifie it but besides we have not done it neither we have but setled it upon the old Foundations then the Kingship however some may pretend a King's Prerogative is so large that we know it not it is not bounded but the Parliament are not of that opinion The Kings Prerogative is known by Law he did expatiate it beyond the duty that 's the evil of the man but in Westminster-Hall the Kings Prerogative was under the Courts of Justice and is bounded as well as any Acre of Land or any thing a man hath as much as any controversie between party and party And therefore the Office being lawful in its nature known to the Nation certain in it self and confined and regulated by the Law and the other Office being not so that was a great ground of the reason why the Parliament did so much insist upon this Office and Title not as circumstantial but as essential yea it is the head from whence all the Nerves and Sinews of the Government do proceed as was well said by the Master of the Rolls If we put a new head it s a question whether those Nerves and Sinews will grow and be nourished and strengthned with that head I had something in my thoughts which I had forgot something of an objection Why are you so pertinacious or insist so much upon this Title you may not apply all the Powers and Authorities unto the Office of Protector and then you will give satisfaction I must needs say he that makes this objection makes it but meerely but a Name If any shall say I am content the Protector shall have the Office but not the Name I think this man is very strait laced then he puts it meerly upon the word and truly if there be no more in it if there be nothing but that word you have in the ballance with it the desires of the Parliament I beseech you do not break with your Parliament for a word Another objection is we have been under the Protector and the Judges have taken their Office under that Government and the Judges have taken their measure by the Authority of the King and have taken it to be the same with that of King and so go on I confess that the Judges have gone very far that way and I may not speak my own opinion of this case in this place but yet it is very well known that there hath been variety of opinions and judgments in this case even from those that have been Judges of the Nation and I do not take the people upon a very good establishment when there shall be no doubtings in those that should be best knowing I would never make a doubt that tends to the shaking of foundations if I should avoid it The taking of this Office will avoid a doubt the continuing of the other Office may be more uncertain I would never make a doubt where it may be dear perhaps the taking of the other would reduce men to satisfaction there is but a perhaps in the one and a certainty in the other 11 Of April Sir Charles Woolesley NOt onely we that are here but many honest hearts in England rejoyce to see this day wherein your Highness and the Parliament are with so much nearness and affection debating the settlement of the Nation One reason why your Highness should take this title offered you by the Parliament is because as you stand in relation to the old Government you are obliged to the Law yet have not the advantage of the Law which the chief Magistrate ought to have The Law knows not a Protector and requires no obedience from the people to him The Parliament desires to settle one so that the people may know your duty to them and they their duty to you The Parliament find the minds of the people of these Nations much set upon this Office and Title God hath by his providence put a general desire of it in the Nation and they think in things not unlawful they ought to hearken and to be much inclined by the desires of them that sent them and in such things as are for their good as this is to be much provoked thereby to the doing of them Truly Sir it hath been much in the thoughts of the Parliament that the reason why things of late have been so unsetled throughout in the Nations hath been because that to the body of this people there hath not been a legal head The well-being of the head is not more necessary to the wholsome constitution of the body natural than a right head is necessary to the body politick I may humbly tell your Highness this Nation hath ever been a lover of Monarchy and of Monarchy under the Title of a King the Name and Office hath for above a thousand years been in this Nation though they have often changed their Princes yet never the Name nor Office 'T is the great Common Law that is the Custome of the Nation approved good by many ages to have the Office and Name of a King no new Law that makes any other can have that validity which the Custom of so many ages hath Sir the Parliament doth judge the safety of your person much concerned to take this Title and 't is not your self they look to though their hearts are full of honour I may say it to your Highness as can be but to you as chief Magistrate representing the people and being head of the Law and all Magistracy the people hath a share and concernment in you We see this hath been the great encouragements of these attempts against your person that the Law did not take notice of you as chief Magistrate and that Juries were generally backward to find any guilty for Treason for attempting against you the Parliament cannot think it fit to have their chief Magistrate in such a condition Your Highness hath been pleased to call your self as when you speak to the Parliament a servant you are so indeed to the people and 't is your greatest honour so to be I hope then Sir you will give the people leave to name their own servant that is a due you cannot you will not certainly deny them their Representatives desire you will serve the People under this Title and were there no other reason therefore it is the best I beseech your Highness consider if you should refuse this Title the Parliament presents you with you do not only deny your self the honour they put upon you but you deny the Nation you deny the people their honour which by right they ought to have 'T is the honour and their just birth-right to have a Supream Magistrate with the Title of a King I know Sir though you can deny your self yet you will not deny the Nation their due when their Representative challenge it from you The Parliament have highly engaged all the good people of this
Nation to make you who are one of them and have been in these troubles their Head and Leader to be their King And certainly Sir whatever dissatisfaction may be in this case it ought not to weigh if there be any Judge on Earth of the peoples good 't is the whole people represented together and what others say it is but by individuals Sir the Parliament have hundreds nay thousands upon their backs the good people of the Nation a quiet peaceable people with you and what the Parliament shall judge fit is their duty and no doubt they will submit Sir were there in this matter no other reason why you should accept this I know this alone which indeed is the greatest reason I can give would sway you above any thing that what is before you is the advice of your great Council the Parliament Lord Commissioner Fines I Shall offer what I conceive from their debates to be the reasons why they advise your Highness to this Title and seeing what is in the fountain must be conveyed by such pipes I shall clear the state of the Question In the first place if I mistake not is onely upon name not upon any thing not upon the Office of a King but upon the Title of a King for the question is whether the same thing shall be signified by the Office of a King under the name of a King or by the Office of a King under the name of a Protector Undoubtedly the Office of a King may be more exercised under another name than it may if the powers be not Kingly though the name be there he that said he would not do his Masters will and yet did it did it more than he that said he would and yet did it not he that hath all the Powers and Authorities of a King is a King though he have not the Name Either there must be a diversity and for any thing that may difference it by the name it self truly Sir either this must be done you must enumerate all the powers of Protector or what is left enumerated must be the same thing as the Law says is the duty of a King and this I think the Judges have determined this being the clear state of the question the difference will arise meerly upon a name and the Parliament did not think it agreeable to their wisdome for them to look upon all the Laws and all the Cases and make the name of Protector to suit them or else leave it lawless and boundless but what was not confined to the power of a King was confined to the decision of the Law That being so the Parliament thinks it is fit for them to do as all wise men do in making names they give out names according to the nature of the thing and either they must fit all the Laws to the name and that is impossible or leave the name unbounded and that 's intolerable All creatures were brought to Adam to give them names he gave them according to their Natures And so the Parliament considers what the thing is that they were about to advise your Lordship to the Parliament finde this to be the same Government as was before and if they would have that why not their old Name If the thing why not the Title Truely it seems very reasonable that names should be proportioned to the thing they have found divers Reasons why the name should be King because it is a thing clear to all the world that the people are more willingly obedient to old Things and Names than to new and so far as old things can be retained without danger or inconvenience it is the Wisdome and Duty of all Governours to retain them I remember in the Stories of our Wars with the French Edw. 3. had assistance from Flanders One thing more of the name of the Protector be considered within my relation to the Laws of this Land Every one knows it does not relate to him that hath the chief Magistracy but as he was Tutor or Guardian to another that 's all the Legal Notion or use of the name Protector in this Land and the holding this name doth hold forth a gap of apprehension and expectation that there may be a change these are in substance that which I can remember of the Debates of the Parliament Lord Com. Lisle I Humbly conceive that in this Title offered to your Highness by the Parliament they do take the same care for your Highness as Jethro took for Moses they finde the weight of the Government as it is now upon you under the title Protector is a burthen that will weary both your self and the people likewise and therefore they do desire your Highness will be pleased to accept of that Title that may be an ease to your Highness and to the people the greatest weight and burthen of government is when there is a jealousie between the Prince and the people for want of a right understanding though neither Parliament nor people have a jealousie of your person yet of the Title they have for want of a right understanding But if your Highness will be pleased to accept of the Title that is now offered all jealousies will be done away for they will then understand what you are and truly Sir I think the jealousie will be higher now then at first when the remonstrance was offered to you For the Title of Protector is either the same thing in power with the Title of King or it is something else If it be something else then what the Title of King is when it is confined and that will raise their jealousie very much If it be the same thing then there is nothing of difference but a name and they will think there is more than a name if the Parliament do offer it to your Highness and your Highness should wave it Sir the Parliament did think that your Highness was never able to provide to do justice to the Nation for the present nor that peace should be maintained in the Nation for the future unless your Highness accept of this Title National Justice does consist in two things that you do right to the people with relation to their just rights in relation to the Parliament That you do right to the people in relation to their just rights according to the Law of the Land Sir the Nations rights in Parliament can never be done to the people unless the Parliament hath its ancient right in relation to the Government and they can never have their right in relation to the Law unless the Laws have their ancient right in relation to the Governours Sir the reason why the Parliament doth now offer it as I conceive is this Sir they did consider the case of David it was the proper Title to offer the Title to King David when the Elders of Israel and the people did Covenant with King David at Hebron The Remonstrance offered to your Highness is the Covenant of the
Three Nations both for Spiritual and Civil Liberties If there was a proper time to make David King when they Covenanted with him at Hebron it is now a proper time for you to accept this Title when the Parliament hath brought this with a Covenant for the Three Nations that relates both to their civil and Spiritual Liberties Lord Broghill SIR I can add so little to what hath been already spoken that were it not in obedience to command I should with much more satisfaction be silent then now speak but being under an obligation I may not violate I shall in obedience thereof presume to lay my poor thoughts before you but first I shall take the boldness to say I believe it is a thing impossible for any to particularize every individual reason which invites a Parliament to pass any Vote for the Parliament is a body consisting of many Members and all of them relish those arguments and reasonings which are most consonant to every mans apprehension in which there is so great variety that though when a Vote is past we may conclude that Vote is the sense of the House yet we cannot say that these and none but these reasons produced that result I onely mention this Sir that whatever I shall speak may be considered by you but as my poor apprehension what in some degree might have contributed to move the Parliament to petition and advise your Highness to assume the Title and Office of King for it would be too high a presumption in any Member especially in me above any to dare aver that what I should now say did only invite the Parliament to give your Highness that Counsel having thus humbly premised what I held my self obliged unto in duty I shall now proceed to acquaint you what in my weak judgment did in some measure move the Parliament to do what they have done First I humbly conceive that the Title of King is that which the Law takes notice of as the Title of Supream Magistrate and no other and that the old foundations that are good are better than any new ones though equally good in their own nature what is confirmed by time and experience carries along with it the best Trial and the most satisfactory stamp and authority Secondly It was considered too that it was much better that the Supreme Magistrate should be fitted to the Laws that are in being than that those Laws should be fitted unto him Thirdly The people legally assembled in Parliament having considered of what Title was best for the supreme Magistrate did after a solemn debate thereof pitch upon that of King it being that by which the people knew their duty to him and he the duty of his Office towards them and both by old and known Laws Fourthly There is hardly any who own Government at all in these Nations but think themselves obliged to obey the old Laws or those which your Highness and the Parliament shall enact So that if the Supream Magistrate of these Three Nations be intituled King all those who reverence the old Laws will obediently and chearfully accept of him as that which is setled upon the establishment they own and all that own this present authority will do the like because grafted by it by which none can rest unsatisfied that think it a duty to obey former Authorities or the present Fifthly The former Authorities know no Supream Magistrate but by the Title of King and this present Authority desires to know him by no other which if refused might it not too much heighten our enemies who may boulster up their faint hopes with saying to one another and to those which assist them that their chief is not onely under that Title which all past Parliaments have approved but under that Title which even this Parliament does approve likewise and that your head is not known by the former Laws and has refused to be known by that application which even the Parliament that he himself hath called doth desire to know him by Sixthly By your Highness bearing the Title of King all those that obey and serve you are secured by a Law made long before any of our differences had a being in the 11th Hen. 7. where a full provision is made for the safety of those that shall serve who ever is King 't is by that Law that hitherto our enemies have pleaded indemnity and by your assuming what is now desired that Law which hitherto they pretended for their disobedience tyes them even by their own profession and principles to obedience and I hope taking off all pretences from so numerous a party may not be a thing unworthy consideration That the Law seems very rational for it doth not provide for any particular family or person but for the peace and safety of the people by obeying whoever is in that Office and bears that Title The end of all Government is to give the people justice and safety and the best means to obtain that end is to settle a Supream Magistrate it would therefore seem very irrational that the people having obtained the end should decline that end onely to follow the means which is but conducing to that end so that if the Title and Office of King be vested in your Highness and that thereby the people enjoy their rights and peace it would be little less than madness for any of them to cast off those blessings onely in order to obtain the same end under another person Seventhly there is at present but a divorce between the pretending King and Imperial Crown of these Nations and we know that persons divorc'd may marry again but if the person be married to another it cuts off all hope These may be some of those reasons which invited the Parliament to make that desire and give that advice to your Highness of assuming the Title of King There is another and a very strong one which is that now they have actually given you that advice and the advices of the Parliaments are things which always ought and therefore I am confident will carry with them very great force and Authority nor doth this advice come singly but accompanied with many other excellent things in reference to our civil and spiritual Liberties which your Highness hath born a just and signal testimony to It is also a Parliament who have given unquestionable proofs of their affection to your Highness and who if listned to in this particular will be thereby encouraged to give you more Lord Protector I Have very little to say to you at this time I confess I shall never be willing to deny or defer those things that come from the Parliament to the Supream Magistrate if they come in the bare and naked Authority of such an Assembly as known by that name and are really the representation of so many people as a Parliament of England Scotland and Ireland is I say it ought to have its weight and it hath so and ever will have
not seek to set up that which Providence hath destroyed and laid in the dust and I would not build Jericho again and this is somewhat to me and to my Judgment and Conscience that it is true it is that that hath an awe upon my spirit and I must confess as the times are they are very fickle very uncertain nay God knows you had need have a great deal of faith to strenghten you in your work and all assistance you had need to look at Settlement I would rather I were in my grave than hinder you in any thing that may be for Settlement for the Nation for the Nation needs and never needed it more and therefore out of the love and honour I bear you I am for ever bound to do whatever becomes of me I am ever bound to acknowledge you have dealt most honourably and worthily with me and lovingly and had respect for one that deserves nothing indeed out of the love and faithfulness I bear you and out of the sence I have of the difficulty of your works I would not have you lose any help that may serve you that may stand in stead to you but would be a sacrifice that there might be so long as God shall please to let this Parliament sit a harmony and better and good understanding between all of you and whatsoever any man thinks it equally concerns one man as another to go on to settlement and where I meet with any that is of another mind indeed I could almost curse him in my heart and therefore to the end I may deal heartily and freely I would have you lose nothing that may stand you instead in this way I would advise you that if there be any of a froward and unmannerly or womanish spirit I would not have you lose them I would not that you should lose any servant or friend that may help in this work that they should be offended by that that signifies no more to me than as I told you that is I do not think the thing necessary I do not I would not that you should loose a friend for it if I should help you to many and multiply my self into many I would be to serve you in settlement and therefore would not that any especially any of these that indeed perhaps are men that do think themselves engaged to continue to you and to serve you should be any ways disobliged from you The truth is I did make that my conclusion to you at the first when I told you what method I would speak to you in I may say that I cannot with conveniency to my self nor good to this service that I wish so well to speak out all my arguments in order to safety and in order in tendency to an effectuall carrying on of this work I say I do not think it fit to use all the thoughts I have in my mind as to that point of safety but I shall pray to God Almighty that he would direct you to do what is according to his Will and this is that poor account I am able to give of my self in this thing 16. April Lord Chief-Justice Glynne The Name and Office essential to Settlement FIrst Because it is known to the Law his Duty known in reference to the people and the peoples Duty known in reference to him this cannot be transmitted to another name without much labour great hazard if it may at all To go by individuals and reckon up all the Duties and Powers that a King by our Laws hath in reference to his Trust towards the people and the Duty of the people towards him is a work of so great labour that it would require months yea years if not ages Secondly To apply its relative talis qualis would introduce these difficulties First it would be a new thing how it would prove is but guest and its the Foundation-stone its unsafe to put it to a hazard when you have a safe one Secondly Those Certainties and Securities that accompany that Title are incident by the ancient Laws and Customs of the Nations and that which the other Office can have are introductive and given him de novo from this Parliament as their ancient inheritance that can claim but by a new title of purchase Thirdly The People and your Highness loose the best Title both to their Liberty and your Rights which is the Law antient Custome and Vsage and claim it only but upon the strength of the Parliament but if you take it as a King you have the strength of both Fourthly If you assume any other name and have the rights given you by Parliament it may seem as if the people had lost their ancient rights and had need of new ones to be created by this Parliament Fifthly The assumption of the Title of King is without need of any other Authority to protect the people and bind the people to obey you Sixthly If you should take the name of Protector or any other new Title whatsoever Authority is applyed thereto is but grafting upon a stock that is new and doubtful whether it will bear the fruits well and still liable to former objections without doors Seventhly If you take the Title of King the worst affected cannot object against Authority or at all against the Parliament as the Donor 16 April Master of the Rolls IT is certain that all Governments in themselves may be good for none as male in se but the rule that hath always been observed that the most necessary and prudent course to govern a Nation must be taken from that proportion which is most suitable to the nature and disposition of the people that are governed if this be the general rule always in the world we may well draw this argument both from an absolute necessity and ex necessitate consequentis also The chief Governour in a setled Government being obliged to do for the good of his people not onely quoad bonum sed quoad optimum then the consideration that will follow properly here will be whether the name King which in the judgment of the Law implies the Office be not the best Government for the peoples safety but ex necessitate causa necessitate consequentis to explain this it must be premised that when we speak of King we must take the difference between the person dignified with the Name and the Name it self for this must be taken for a sure ground the word King is a Name as it is a word which the Law doth look upon so it hath its proper Basis and foundation upon the Law and is as ancient as the Law is now the Person of the King is a name that hath its dignity and foundation from the word King as ex necessitate consequentis because in reason a man must be used to exercise that Authority which proceeds from that name These things being very clear by the fundamental grounds of the Law if then we examine the foundation of things
according to the rules of the Law it is manifest that the name King the Laws Rights Property and Liberties of the people and also Parliaments themselves have but one foundation and have the original prescription and ancient customes that is customes time out of mind so that in judgment of Law the Three the King the Law and the Parliament are the Parties of the Government of this Nation which having the Basis and foundation from prescription creates this form of Government in this Nation which is not a form in the vulgar acceptation of the word Form but it is the form of Government setled in this Nation that is of the essential part and hereby the Law forma dat esse Then to me it is an impossible thing that any Act of Parliament even without a destruction to the essential part of the Government can place that Office in another name be what it will which naturally wants the foundation and ground of that power and Office which that name hath First Because the alteration destroyes the foundation which is Prescription and annexes to it a name that the Law of the Land hath no acquaintance with Secondly It sets all Laws Liberties and what is dear to us upon a new Foundation as to the People for whatsoever is created by an Act cannot have Life and Authority but from that Act and shall never look back to its first Original Constitution and it takes from the People the Rules and Grounds which they have known by Experience and sends them to seek them in a Power which no Wit of Man can suddenly apprehend the bounds and limits when so many Doubts may arise even in the old Foundation which Experience and Time hath excellently refined from these Grounds I may safely say That there never was but one KING in England from the first Foundation of Kingship and can safely conclude there will never be more and that there have been many and more I hope will be whose Persons shall exercise that Office For the Law doth positively affirm The King never dies and that the reason is because its Original is grounded upon the same Foundation which is so conjoyned together that no Death can make a partition And the difference is The King never dies but the name and thing hath a kinde in a vulgar sence of an Immortality if we consider the continuance of the word and person that is invested with that Name by the judgment of them is not said to die but to devise which is to deposite and to lay up the Name and Title of the King Indeed to deposite it in another hand all which proceeds in Judgments of Law ex necessitate consequentis and from the necessary Inconveniencies and Mischiefs that may arise to the People by Interregna and by other Consequences that would be too long to relate there is a famous Example in 1 Hen. 7. The common ground that is taken by the accession of the Office and Dignity to the person but the true ground is the name and the Office is become part of the body of the Law which should punish the offences against which it was committed which doth prove both the necessities of the name and the necessary relation there is between the Name and the Law and it is a necessary deduction that the Name King is the thing wherein the Office and Power is placed and therefore not practicable by any Statute or Act of Parliament to divide the Power and Office from the Name and transfer that power without the Name the word King hath such essential reference to the Law that it never looks to the person to make that the ground of the essence but if it had been the Name the Law was satisfied and therefore it never examined the right of the Person how he became invested with the power but de facto whether he were or no and if so whether de facto or de jure it hath the same influence upon the peoples right and the same advantages to the chief Governour The Objections of the Government now and of the Government under the Keepers of the Liberties and the quietness under both of them 1. REmember the difficulties in making 2. The grounds why the Judges acted though some refused 3. That upon debate when inconveniencies were set forth these grounds another Parliament might change and the like 4. To the government the dislike of the people how some disrelish this now set up 5. The Laws did proceed farre when the Ordinary process disobeyed a good army to help us the ground and reason of the warre against the person for the breach of trust in his departure against his first promise in Parliament upon the Petition of the Speakers c. and was not against the office but against breach of trust in that office by the absence of the person There is also another reason why the office cannot be annext to another name either by act of Parliament or otherwise for in any other name you must suppose the office the King so that any other name is but a fiction in respect of the right name and that would be very dangerous both to the laws and to the propertie to lay the basis and foundation upon a fiction which was a reason that some of the Judges forbare to act upon the name of Custos libertatis Angliae c. and the same reason upon any other name I urged also that this Petition and advice was matter of right not of grace which was never denied by any Prince in this Nation nor can it be because there is an obligation in all cases to do Right and this obligation is upon the Protector whilst he takes upon him the cheif Magistracy Colonel Jones 16. April MAy it please your Highnesse I am unwilling to spend the time in speaking after those two learned and honourable persons that spake last and therefore shall endeavour in what I have to say to those doubts you were pleased to make when this Committee had the honour last to attend you to be as brief as may be Your Highnesse was pleased then to say that though the arguments brought to the maintenance of the title King in the Petition presented to you by the Parliament were weighty yet in your answering them you must not grant them necessarily conclusions but take them as having much of conveniency and probability of towards concluding for if an expedient may be found they are not then necessary And you were pleased to tell us that though Kingship be not a Title but an Office interwoven in our laws yet it is not so natione nominis but from what it signifies that being a name of office plainly implying the Supreme Magistrate and therefore whatever name it be wherein the Supreme Magistrate resides the signification will give to the thing and not to the name and seeing this Title had a Commencement and also hath been unfixed why may not a new one now commence
last said may make up as it were but one King this 500 years the law not admitting an Inter-Regnum from whence I inferre that as it was not the end of our Warre as appears by six or seven Declarations of Parliament one whereof was ordered to be read in all Churches so our providence led not to lay aside either the Name or Office but that Family which oppressed us then all mens lives and liberties depend on this settlement it is necessary then to lay it in the strongest foundation that may be And as for that of safety it is not for me to speak much to it but certainly it is to be hoped that as a Parliament advise your Highnesse to things honest and lawful and by them judged necessary for a good settlement and therein take care and provide for our Rights as men and Christians and your Highness thereunto all dangers by Gods blessing upon your Highness wisdom backed with such an Annuity and an Army under the conduct of so many religious and faithful persons so well principled to the obedience of lawful powers may be prevented And therefore I humbly hope God will incline your Highness to grant the Petition and advice of the Parliament 16. April Sir Richard Onslow The Lord Protectors Objections OBjection That the Title of King is a name of an office and any other name which may imply the supreme Magistrate hath the same signification and therefore no necessity of the name Answer every office ought to have a name adequate to the said office and no other name than King can be suitable and comprehensive enough to contain in it the common good to all intents and purposes It is a Rule that the Kings of England cannot alter the laws of England ratione nominis but is bound to Govern according to the laws of England but for any other name there is no obligation lies upon it That the very Title is necessary was declared in the 9. year of E. 4. when the great controversie was betwixt E. 4. and H. 6. that sometimes one was in possession and then another that it was necessary the Realm should have a King under whom the laws might be maintained and holden for every action done by the King in possession was valid and good for it was his Jurisdiction Royal so likewise the first of H. 7. so 3. the same opinion was held and declared that a King de facto was necessary and in all alterations from persons and families Yet our Ancestors always retained the Title and the Name There is a prius and a primum another name may in order and degree be first that is before other men but it was a King was primum the first name that had its beginning with our laws The Customes of England are the Laws of England as well as our States laws the title of King and custom are two twins born together and have had continuance together and therefore to say Protector of which we know the date with Custom of which no memory can speak is a kind of contradiction to the Original Then there must be a Law introductive because Protector is a new name that our Law doth not yet know Now to ingraft a young Cien upon an old stock it will never grow but there must be an irradication of the old root and a new plantation must be made and that all the old customes must be put into positive laws and that will be a thing consisting of much time and great difficulty The title of King is so incorporated and in conjunction with our Customes which do very much concern the people of England to be upheld and then there is a rule Quaeque res in conjunctione pro bono conjunctionis that ought to be done which is for the good of the conjunction and benefit thereof and if it be for the advantage of the single person and the people it brings me to mind of another rule my old Master Tully taught me Communis utilitatis derclictio contra naturam est it is not natural to decline that which is for a common benefit and utility And therefore I shall say but this as to the title that as the Patriarch Jacob joyned together in his blessing upon Judah the Law-giver and the Scepter so the Parliament of the three Nations desires to preserve the title King in and upon the Law 2. Objection another argument your Highness was pleased to draw from providence that had brought you to this place through much darkness and had seemed to lay this title aside of King Answer it becomes all men to acknowledge the acting of the providence and power of God for bringing to pass whatsoever he hath determined in the world and it is the mighty and wise hand of providence which Triumphs over Nations and Triumphs and treads down all oppositions Yet your Highness observes it is not a rule to walk by without the word the reason the causes are hidden in the secret Counsel of Gods will you may see in the Revelations the Book is Sealed up with seven Seals we may read what is past because it is written on the outside of the Book but what is to come we cannot read and we ought not to limit providence nor can we bound it with a no further 3. Objection this State hath by providence received several thanges to great ones from the former constitution that of the Keepers of the Liberties of England and this present Government under the title of Protector and the first seemed to be the result of 7 years war against the Title and the Family Answer it must be confessed it proved the event of 7. years war but the reasons of the war did not lead to it for the war was for King and Parliament for the office but against the person against the exorbitancy and irregularities in his Government but it was providence that took away at that time both the Office and the Family It was also providence that altered from that of a Republick to this of a Protector that act being as much against Protector as a King for it was against a Single Person And may not by the same series of providence this Parliament as well set up Kingly Government as that Parliament took it away having also the same power they had 4. Objection Another ground why your Highness would not accept of the Title was the dissatisfaction many persons who had been instrumental in carrying on the work have against that title Answer in every change of Government there was and still will be persons unsatisfied because men are of mixt interests and differing in judgement upon the change to a Republick those that conceived the Monarchical Government best were unsatisfied but all ought to submit and be concluded by the judgement of a Parliament Your Highness was pleased to say that neither your self nor those that tendred to you the instrument were authors in the first change but it was the long
the Nation There is a certain latitude wherein there may be had a respect to friends when the publick good of the whole Nations is in question other considerations may not take place and it is not love to satisfie mens desires to their own hurt and the hurt of the publick so it cannot be thought but that Godly and sober men when they see this name stamped first with the ordinance of man and after with Gods ordinance for so it will then be they will submit thereunto for the Lords sake and satisfie their minds that they ought so to do for that other reason alledged by your Highness that this name hath been blasted and taken away by the Parliament it is clear that the thing was as much blasted as the name and the Government by one person under what name soever as much and more blasted than this name but in truth neither name nor thing hath been at all blasted by God otherwise than he blasted all things and names of this nature It may be as truly said that he hath blasted Parliaments for they have also undergone and felt the like blasts but God hath so declared his will concerning all particular forms of Government that they are wholly at the pleasure and disposition of men to be continued and altered and changed according to the exigency of affairs and publick good of the People and Nations for which they are created by men for the Scripture calleth them humanae creationis Therefore as men blast them so God blasteth them and when men set them up again God honoureth them again and commands they should be honoured One Parliamâ—nâ— thought the perfect state of affairs required the taking away of this name and office and this Parliament iudgeth the present State of affairs requireth the restoring it to the Nations again as to that point of safetie which your Highness touched upon we may best answer it by drawing a curtain before it as your Highness hath given us an example there are dissatisfactions on the one side as well as on the other neither is the consideration of danger only on the one side and some things may be more convenient for your Highness to conceive than for us to speak onely I shall remember your Highness what the Wiseman saith he that observeth the wind shall never sow and he that regardeth the clouds shall never reap the husbandman in the way of his calling must rule his actions by the ordinance and revealed will of God without attending unto the uncertain events which may arise through the indisposition of the air which is in Gods hands and disposition so every man in the way of his calling must attend to what is the revealed will of God to guide his resolutions and actions thereby and not by the various minds of men which are in the hands of God and the Wiseman also saith he that walketh uprightly walketh surely he walketh uprightly that walketh according to Gods revealed will It is also a great note of Integrity to speak as a man thinketh to do as he speaketh and to suit name to things and as your Parliament hath thought to suit with this thing so have they offered to your Highness with much integrity and without any other respect saving to your good and liberty of the Nations Lord Broghill April 16. YOur Highness the last time this Committee had the honour to wait on you seemed to be of opinion that it was not necessary that you should assume the Title of King to exercise legally the office and duty of supream Magistracy of these three Nations because that the Title of Protector is by the authority of Parliament made the Title of the chief Magistrate would do as well and answer all ends of Government as fully as that which now the Parliament does desire and advise your Highness to take upon you but to effect this either all the powers and limitations of a Protector must be more particularly enumerated or he must under the name have all the Authorities with a King as a King has by the Law Of the first of these then as those learned Gentlemen that have spoken before have fully proved whatsoever is not particularly specified the Protector is left to act arbitrarily or a Parliament must be called to supply every new discovered defect his power being derived only from that authority that now does or hereafter shall constitute them which will prove dangerous and inconvenient both to himself and the people and to set down all authorities and abundances which are requisite will be a work of so much time and difficulty if that in the Nation only it seems impracticable in the acting it will be much more found so if the second then it will evidently appear if the difficulty is only about a name and it would be a sad thing indeed that any disagreement should be between your Highness and the Parliament especially when the thing differed in as the settling of our foundation and the thing differed upon is only a name I hope that unhappiness will be so well foreseen as never to run unto Your Highness was pleased to take notice that if the Title of Protector were settled by Parliament hardly any thing could be objected against it but that it is a Title not so long known to these Nations as that of King which is a grave and weighty objection since in constituting of Governments the ablest and most deserving judges are uncapable to see these disadvantages and inconveniences which time and experience do render evident which may be a reason if not the chief one why our Ancestours would never alter Kingly Government though they had often the power to do it and were provoked thereunto by exorbitance and evil Government of their Princes chusing rather to bound that office proportionably to the evils they have deserved in it than to establish a new Model of their own in erecting of which they could not have in some ages the experience they had of that and to cast off an office that has been some hundred of years a pruning and fitting for the good of the people to establish one that has been but newly known were to think our selves wiser in one day than our forefathers have been ever since the first erecting of Kingship It has been an unquestionable principle that the Magistrate is establisht for the Laws and not the lawes for the Magistrate if therefore the Title of Protector should be the Title of the supreme Magistrate we should fit the laws to him not him to the laws which would be by our practice to contradict our professions and possibly wound the peoples rights but in this point there has been so much said and that so learnedly by those worthy persons who have spoken before that to prove the necessity of your Highness assuming the Title of King and should only add a mentioning of those many reasons that the Parliament of three Nations think it necessary you should
do it which is evident by their inserting it amongst these three things which they esteem fundamental as to the settlement yea they have placed at the head of all those fundamentals and laid so great stresses on it that in their humble Petition and advice they declare that if it be not accepted of the whole shall be esteemed null and void so that the highest necessity imposed by a Parliament will have the best acceptance your Highness was pleased to mention that we had recent experiments what the supreme Magistracy of the Nation might be well carried into all effects and purposes under another Name and Title than that of King viz. under the name of Keepers of the liberty of England and under the name of Protector but I shall humbly beseech your Highness to consider that because that was not grounded upon the old known Laws it was of very short duration and the second for the same reason the Parliament is now petitioning and advising your Highness to alter so what is brought as are arguments to prove what your Highness mentions possibly may rather evince the contrary besides Sir it is confession on all hands that these two changes sprung from necessity therefore were not neither ought to be of longer continuance than that necessity which caused them and this is the great and real difference between constitutions that are established meerly because necessary and those that are established meerly because good for what is only of necessity is but temporary as no effect lasts longer than it's cause but what is good in it's own nature is always good and if by intervening accidents it be a while clouded yet at length it shines and overcometh and all wise men do desire to revert unto it To prove that the first of these changes the Keepers of the liberty of England was only an act of necessity and not of choice I need but mind your Highness of what the Masters of the Rolls then spake of the Parliament did even now evert that after the absolution of Kingship the Parliament were necessitated to advise with a Civilian of another Nation what the Hollander had done what they did they were at a loss what to do the providence of God hath so altered the temper of officers between that time and this present that the change appeared best because necessary but the Parliament esteems the change now desired necessary because best nor can we possibly better express our thankfulness for the opportunity which now God hath put into our hands than to employment to make the best and lastingest settlement all things are best which are found best upon tryal but all the changes we have been under of late were upon belief not experiment and having had an essay of all the Parliament have sound that above all Kingship is the best so that by the best judges and by the best way of judging that form of Government now presented to your Highness hath the preceeding in the peoples opinion and therefore is hoped you will have it in yours It may possibly be fit for your Highness observation that the best breach which happened amongst those worthy persons which instrumentally carried on our Common cause arise from the taking away the Title and Office of King so often declared for and engaged to be maintained by the Parliament till then we went hand in hand and took sweet council together and if the abolishing thereof caused so sad a breach probably the restoration of it may make it up again Your Highness was pleased to say you assumed the Office you now bear with no better hope than to prevent mischief questionless we may expect better fruits from the supreme Magistracy and if your Highness who is every way so worthy of that office had no better hopes under the Title Protector we may justly subscribe it not unto your self but unto the constitution of Government you acted under and therefore your Highness do assume the Supreme Magistracy according to the Laws we shall both hope and believe that you will not only prevent ill but do much good the best Governour being grasted upon the best Government Your Highness expressed some doubts that the providence of God hath blasted the Kings office in the dust and that by an act of Parliament was laid aside but I humbly hope your Highness will pardon me if I cannot have the like apprehension I cannot believe if that office were blasted by the hand of God that the Parliament would advise and Petition you to take it up Besides Sir the very act which first cast out the Kingly Office did also cast out the Supreme Magistracy in any single person yea by way of election or otherwise therefore I begg your pardon if I cannot think that act of Parliament can be interpreted as a providential blasting of that office which your Highness thought necessary to accept of and by virtue of which we have for some years past enjoyed quiet and protection So that if Kingship be blasted then Supreme Magistracy in a single person is as much being both equally declared against at the same time and in the same Act of Parliament and that since your Highness by your actingsâ— have evinced you did not believe the Supreme Magistracy in a single person was blasted by providence you will permit us to believe that Kingship is no more blasted than that the same authority and the same act having blemished as far as it could both alike but your Highness is pleased to say Kingship is cast out de facto If the weight of the argument do rest thereon your Highness by accepting the Petition and Advice of the Parliament will make your argument as strong for Kingship as ever it was against it and 't is hoped your Highness will not doubt that what one Supreme authority did suppress another may erect that seemed necessary then in the judgment of them only then they knew not what to do when they had erected Kings and we shall be in the like perplexity if now you accept not of this What the long Parliament did after so long a War must be considered rather as result of providence than the casting out the other The Estate of Parliament must be considered under that notion also and yet I think there is few that esteem it not as fit to refer it again under due qualifications as then 't was esteemed fit not to allow of it under any if also your Highness arguments were carried on as farr as it might be I apprehend it might also bring it in question that the Parliaments were blasted by providence for whoever allows not the dissolving of the long Parliament to be under that notion will hardly find a good reason for its dissolution but it may be answered that it may not cast down in reference to some that acted in it who were suspected to have a design of perpetuating themselves in that authority which would have turned what should have been
and respect to the Parliament whose sence in this I may presume to speak that never any persons met their Supream Magistrate with more love duty and honour than the Parliament have met your Highness with in their present and addresses which argument of Love deserves the esteem and force which I doubt not but your Highness will put upon it I am fearful to be too tedious at any time especially at so late an hour and therefore shall speak but short to some things which I remember not to have been mentioned Your Highness was pleased at the last meeting to say that the original Institution of the Title King was by common consent and that the same common consent might institute any other Title and make it as effectual as that of King this must be acknowledged but withal you may be pleased to observe that the Title of King is not only by an original common consent but that consent also proved and confirmed and the Law fitted thereunto and that fitted to the Laws by the experience and industry of many ages and many hundreds of years together whereas any other Title will be only by present common consent without that experience and approbation for that experience which your Highness mentioned to have been of other Titles and the due administration of Justice under them this experience is far short of the other and for the course of Justice we have cause to thank that care which plac'd so Good Judges and Officers over us yet give me leave to say that in private causes between Party and Party and in publick matters in nominal causes it was not easy to find justice to be done by some Jurors and many questions have risen upon the occsion of those new Titles concerning that tender point of good mens satisfaction I think it requires a very great regard from us and I doubt not but those good people will be fully satisfied if they consider the covenants promises and precepts which in the Scriptures are annext to the name of King and although some have alledged that they belong to any chief Magistrate as well as to King yet no man did ever read the Original word translated otherwise than King neither do I find the present Title once mentioned in the holy Text if the present authority be a lawsul authority which I hope none of us will deny surely those good men who are so well principled in godliness will not forget that precept of submission to authority and to be satisfied with that which lawful authority shall ordain Their Rights and Liberties are the same with ours and the Parliament cannot advise any thing for the preservation of the peoples Rights but these good men are included which I hope will be no disatisfaction to them in all the changes which we have seen there hath been a dissatisfaction to some yet still the blessing of God hath gone along through all these changes with those who carried on his interest and the cause being the same the same mercies have been continued and I doubt not but if the intended change or rather restitution be made as I hope it will I doubt not but the same God will continue his blessings to that good old cause wherein we are engaged and that good men receive satisfaction by it Your Highness hath been told that the Title of King is upon the foundation of Law and that a new Title must have a constitution to make the Laws relate unto it and that unto the Laws I shall only add this that a Title by relation is not so certain and safe as a Title upon the old foundation of the Law and that a Title upon a present single constitution as any new Title must be cannot be so firm as a Title both upon the present constitution and upon the old foundation of the Law likewise which the Title of King will be if any inconvenience should ensue upon your acceptance of this Title which the Parliament adviseth your Highness satisfaction will be that they did advise it On the contrary part if inconvenience should arise upon your Highness refusal of this Title which the Parliament hath advised your burden will be the greater And therefore whatsoever may fall out will be better answered by your Highness complying with your Parliament than otherwise This question is not altogether new some instances have been given of the like to which I shall add two or three the Titles of the Kings of England in the Realm of Ireland was Lord of Ireland And the Parliament in the 33. year of Hen. 8. reciting that inconveniences did arise there by reason of that Title did enact that Hen. 8. should assume the Stile and Title of King of Ireland which in the Judgement of this Parliament was preferred before the other In the State of Rome new Titles proved fatal to their liberties Their case was not much unlike ours they were wearied with a civil War and coming to a settlement Cuncta discordiis civilibus fessa nomine principis sub imperium accepit some would not admit the Title Rex to be used but were contented to give the Titles of Caesar perpetuus Dictator Princeps Senator Imperator Non sum Rex sed Caesar came at last to this Voluntas Caesaris pro lege habeatur the Northern people wers more happy amongst themselves a private Gentleman of a noble family took up arms with his Countrey-men against a Tyrant and by the blessing of God rescued their native liberties and rights of their Country from the oppression of that Tyrant This Gentleman had the Title of Marshall given unto him which continued for some years Afterwards their Parliament judging it best to resume the old Title elected this Gentleman to be their King and with him was brought in the liberty of Protestant Religion and the establishment of the civil rights of that people which have continued in a prosperous condition ever since unto this day Sir I shall make no other application but in my prayers to God to direct your Highness and the Parliament as I hope he will to do that which will be most for his honour and the good of his people The Lord Protectors Speech April 26. 1657. I Have as well as I could considered the Arguments used by you the other day to inforce the conclusion that refers to the name and Title that was the Subject matter of the debates and conferences that have been between us I shall not now spend your time nor my own much in â—â—â—â—ating those Arguments and in giving answers to them although indeed I think they are but the same that they were formerly only there were some additional inforcements of those arguments by new instances I think truely after the rate of Debate I may spend your time which I know is very precious and unless I were a satisfied person the time would spinne out and be very unprofitable spent so it would I onely must say a word or two
particulars no question I might easily offer something particular for debate if I thought that that would answer the end for truely I know my end and yours is the same that is to bring things to an issue one way or other that we may know where we are that we may attain that general end that is Settlement the end is in us both and I durst contend with any one person in the world that it is not more in his heart than in mine I could go to some particulars to ask a Question or ask a Reason of the Alteration which would well enough let you into the business that it might yet I say it doth not answer me I confess I did not so strictly examine that Order of reference or whether I read it or no I cannot tell you If you will have it that way I shall as well as I can make such an Objection as may occasion some answer to it though perhaps I shall object weak enough I shall very freely submit to you Lord Chief-Justice THe Parliament hath commanded us for that end to give your Highness satisfaction Lord Commissioner Fines MAy it please your Highness Looking upon the Order I finde that we are impowred to offer any Reasons that we think fit either for the satisfaction of your Highness or maintenance of what the Parliament hath given you their advice in and I think we are rather to offer to your Highness the Reasons of the Parliament if your Highness Dissatisfaction be to the Alteration of Government in general or in particular Lord Protector I Am very ready to say I have no Dissatisfaction that it hath pleased the Parliament to finde out a way though it be of alteration to bring these Nations into a good Settlement and perhaps you may have judged the Settlement we were in was not so much for the great End of Government the Liberty and Good of the Nations and the preservation of all those honest Interests that have been engaged in this Cause I say I have no exception to the general that the Parliament hath thought fit to take consideration of a new Settlement or Government but you having done it as you have and made me so far interested in as to make such an Overture to me I shall be very glad if you so please to let me know it that besides the pleasure of the Parliament may be somewhat of the Reason of the Parliament for interesting me in this thing and for making the alteration such as it is Truly I think I shall as to the other particulars swallow this I shall be very ready to assign particular Objections to clear that to you that may be either better to clear or to help me at least to a clearer understanding of the things for better good for that I know is in your hearts as well as mine Though I cannot presume that I have any thing to offer to you that may convince you But if you will take in good part I shall offer somewhat to every particular If you please as to the first of the thing I am clear as to the ground of the thing being so put to me as it hath been put I think that some of the grounds upon which it is done will very well lead into such Objections or Doubts as I may offer and will be a very great help to me in it and if you will have me offer this or that or the other doubt that may arise methodically I shall do it Lord Whitlock I Am very much assured that all this company is come with the same Affection and faithful Respect to the Publick Settlement as your Highness hath pleased to express For my part I do with a great deal of Clearness and Faithfulness and in my particular apprehension I conceive that the Method that your Highness mentioned to proceed in we may answer and if any Gentleman be of another opinion he will be pleased to correct me in it The Parliament taking consideration of the present Government and the Instrument that doth establish it seemeth to my apprehension to be of opinion that it was very fit there should be some course taken for a Settlement in the Government of the Nation by the Supream Legislative Power your Highness and the Parliament concurring together in it they found the Instrument of Government in the Original and Foundation of it to require this Settlement by the Supream Legislative Power in regard of the Original of the other which they did as I apprehended by some Gentlemens Debates upon it might be an occasion of some doubts and of less stability if it were left to continue upon the same foundation it is That it will not be so clear a Settlement and Foundation for the Preservation of the Rights and Liberties of the Nation as if we came to a Settlement by the Supreme Legislative Power upon that ground it was taken into Consideration and a Settlement brought to effect upon very solemn full and candid Debates among themselves in Parliament Their Intentions I suppose were only these To provide for the Safety and Peace of the Nations hereafter to provide for the Rights and Liberties both Spiritual and Civil of the People of these Nations and in order to make the best provision they could for these great Concernments of the People the Petition and Advice which they have humbly presented to your Highness was brought to a determination by them For that particular which your Highness did formerly intimate when the Parliament did attend upon you the Committee of the Parliament and which you are now pleased to intimate concerning the Title I do humbly apprehend the grounds of that to be these The foundation of that Title of Protector being not known by the Law being a new Title it was thought that the Title which is known by the Law of England for many Ages many hundred of years together received and the Law fitted to it and that to the Law that it might be of more certainty and clear Establishment and more conformable to the Laws of the Nation that that Title should be that of King rather than that other of Protector There is very much as to the essence of the business as some Gentlemen did apprehend That the Title should be a known Title that hath been in all these Times and Ages received and every particular person hath occasion of knowing of it and of his Rights applied to it And likewise of the general Rights of the People and their Liberties have an application to that Name which application cannot be so clear and so certain to a new Title the Title of Protector Some Gentlemen I heard reason it that the Title of Protector is only upon the Original and Foundation as it now stands but the Title of King besides the Constitutions by which it shall be made will likewise have a Foundation upon the old and known Laws of the Nation So that there will be both the present
otherwise I am concluded before I speak and therefore it will behoove me to say what I have why they are not necessary conclusions not that they are nor that it is I should say so interwoven in the Laws but that the Laws may not possibly be executed to equal to justice and equal satisfaction of the people and equally to answer all objections as well without it as with it and then when I have done that I shall onely take the liberty to say a word or two for my own grounds and when I have said what I can say as to that I hope you will think a great deal more then I say Truly though Kingship be not a Title but a name of Office that runs through the Law yet it is not so ratione nominis but from what is signified it is a name of Office plainly implying a Supream Authority is it more or can it be stretcht to more I say it is a name of Office plainly implying the Supream Authority and if it be so why then I would suppose I am not peremptory in any thing that is matter of deduction or inference of my own Why then I should suppose that whatsoever name hath been or shall be the name in which the Supream Authority shall act why I say if it had been those four or five Letters or whatsoever or whatsoever else it had been that signification goes to the thing certainly it does and not to the name why then there can be no more said but this why this hath been fixt so it may have been unfixt and certainly in the right of the Authority I mean as a legislative power in the right of the legislative power I think the Authority that could Christen it with such a name could have called it by another name and therefore it was but derived from that And certainly they had the disposal of it and might have had it they might have detracted or changed and I hope it will be no offence to you to say as the case now stands so may you and if it be so that you may why then I say there is nothing of necessity in your Argument but consideration of expedience of it I had rather if I were to chuse if it were the natural question which I hope is altogether out of the question But I had rather have any name from this Parliament than any name without it so much do I value the Authority of the Parliament and I believe all men are of my mind in that I believe the Nation is very much of my mind though that be an uncertain way of arguing what mind they are of I think we may say it without offence for I would give none though the Parliament be the truest way to know what the mind of the Nation is yet if the Parliament will be pleased to give me a liberty to reason for my self and that that be made one Argument I hope I may urge against that else I can freely give a reason of my own mind but I say undoubtingly let us think what we will what the Parliament settles in that which will run through the Law and will lead the thread of Government through the Land as well as what hath been considering that what hath been upon the same account save that there hath been some long continuance of the thing it is but upon the same account it had its original somewhere and it was in consent of the whole there was the original of it and consent of the whole will I say be the needle that will lead the thread through all and I think no man will pretend right against it or wrong and if so then under favour to me I think all those arguments from the Law are as I said before not necessary but are to be understood upon the account of conveniency it is in your power to dispose and settle and before we can have confidence that what you do settle will be as authentick as those things that were before especially as to the individual thing the name or Title upon Parliamentary account upon Parliamentary why then I say there will be way made with leave for me to offer a reason or two to all that hath else been said otherwise I say my mouth is stopt there are very many inforcements to carry on this thing I suppose it will stand upon a way of expedience and fitness truly I should have urged one consideration more that I had forgotten and that is not onely to urge the things for reason but for experience perhaps it is a short one but it is a true one under favour and is known to you all in the fact of it under favour although there hath been no Parliamentary declarations that the Suprcam Authority going in another name and under another Title than King why it hath been complyed with twice without it That is under the Custodes Libertatis Angliae it hath since I exercised the place and truly I may say that almost universal obedience hath been given to all the ranks and sorts of men to both and to begin with the highest degree of Magistracy at the first alteration and when that was the name and though it was the name of an invisible thing yet the very name though a new name was obeyed did pass for currant and was received and did carry on the justice of the Nation I remember very well that my Lords the Judges were somewhat startled and yet upon consideration if I mistake not I believe so there being of them without reflection as able and as learned as have sat there though they did I confess at first demur a little yet they did receive satisfaction and did act as I said before I profess it for my own part I think I may say it since the beginning of that change I would be loath to speak any thing vainly but since the beginning of that change unto this day I do not think in so many years those that were called and worthily so accounted Halcyon days of peace in 20 Eliz. and King James and King Charles time I do not think but that the Laws did proceed with as much freedom and justice with less private sollicitation either from that that was called then so or since I came to the Government I do not think under favour that the Laws have had a more free exercise more uninterrupted by any hand of power the Judge less solicited by Letters or private interpositions either of my own or other mens in double so many years in all those times of peace and if more of my Lords the Judges were here than now are they could tell what to say to what had been done since and therefore I say under favour these two experiences do manifestly shew that it is not a Title though so interwoven with the Laws that makes the Law to have its free passage and do its office without interruption as we think but that if a
and be now fixed by the legislative authoritie and thereby be made to run through the law as well as the Title King from whence may be inferred this Title is not necessary but may it please your Highness if it be considered the intention of the Parliament in this their humble addresse to you viz. that it is a Settlement it would then be likewise considered whether a new name will not be found in this case to make a new office also and whether then the novelty thereof will not hazard it nor frustrate that great end of settlement the Antiquitie and tryal of laws being that which doth beget the greatest reverence and satisfaction of them in the people and that the change of the name makes it a new office will appear both in respect of his authoritie who bears the office and in respect of the peoples obligation in matter of obedience to that new officer for by the ancient law he cannot claim subjection from them nor can the people thereby claim protection from him the strength then of the settlement and of their rights and liberties as farre as they relate to this new Supreme Magistracy will rest upon a new and untried constitution and this authority upon the same foundation the wisdome of our Ancestours even in lesser matters when they introduce a new Law made it for the most part a probationer onely and I may humbly say we have now some years been making probationeries of new governments and therefore the Parliament finding the people not yet settled with any of them return to that which by long experience and custome hath been found to suit with their minds and rights the people having not the same satisfaction nor acquiescence in any new thing which they have in long approved laws and customs a new thing being in it self uncertain not onely whether it will prove good or no but also in this case in respect that one main property of the settlement being a co-ordinate power depends upon it and will be subject to be controverted whether one co-ordinate is well put up by another or may not by the like power that sets it up be pulled down again which cannot but leave mens minds as doubtful of settlement as ever things uncertain and disputable naturally carrying unsettlement with them Time and experience hath grafted this Name and Office in the minds of the people and that as I said already begets reverence and satisfaction in their minds Also they were the exorbitances of the office which in great measure this petition provides against that was complained of and not the Office nor Name which are founded upon the ancient laws the altering of either alters the constitution and lays it upon a foundation lesse certain and easier to be shaken and therefore to take up the office without the title will be to take it up with all the objections of Scandal or otherwise it is said to be liable to and yet to want the support of the ancient laws it carries with it and the advantage of satisfying and settling the minds of such of the people of these Nations as by the consideration of novelties and what in this case attends it will otherwise rest doubtful and unsettled These are some of the grounds I observed in the debate of the Parliament to induce them to judge this title not only expedient but in respect of settlement necessary Your Highness was pleased to object also the dissatisfaction of good men which you judged in things indifferent were to be considered They are so and it hath been so judged by the Parliament who manifested great tendernesse in that kind and I hope ever will but in this matter found by the Parliament not to be indifferent but necessary for the settlement of these Nations they hope that wherein good people have not already been satisfied they will endeavour for satisfaction and it is to be hoped that when the matter of this Petition will be made more publick they will find such care and provision made for good men and of good things that will certainly give them satisfaction I think I may safely say such a positive provision for their liberties and incouragement hath not been found under any former King nor any other form of government to which your Highness hath been pleased your self to give that testimony so that it is not Kingship alone as formerly the Parliament adviseth your Highnesse unto but to the office with such a provision made for the good interest and if then your Highnesse of whose faithfulnesse to their interest good people have received such ample testimony will be pleased to consent to this Petition of the Parliament an authority always of no small esteem and reverence with the best men I doubt not but when it is done they will chearfully acquiesce though while it is doing they may have scruples for that of providence laying aside the title I thinking the argument whence will be as cogent against the office it self and against government by a single person under any title the acts of Parliament mentioned are as expressely against the one as the other and therefore the exercise of the Supreme power by a single person under any title is as much a contradiction of providence and these acts of Parliament as the exercise thereof under the title of a King but certainly the laying aside of a thing de facto which though indeed it be an act of providence yet it cannot be construed that the intendment of that providence is finally to lay it aside never to be reassumed again the consequences of such a position are many and may be dangerous for what by that rule is not to be laid aside I remember here an objection made that your Highness in another place which I had almost forgotten which was that we did enjoy our laws and that the justice was freely administred under several changes and titles as that of the Keepers of the liberty and the title your Highnesse now bears To which I humbly answer that if so it may be said thanks are rather to be given to the persons into whose hands the power fell than to the constitutions However I crave leave to say this that changes imply not a settlement and since providence led us from our old constutition we have in a few years had 4. or 5. changes and that these changes have not been accompanied with more hazards it is a matter of praise to the Lord and of commendation to the powers we have been under but if one providence both laid aside Kingship another led it in and calls upon you to take it up and it is to me a remarkable thing that providence hath cast it under such constitutions and laws as if when we have thrown out the Tyrant that oppressed in our spiritual and civil rights we can by our ancient laws graft another in that may be a fit instrument to preserve both who as the learned person that spoke
Parliament so that I may conclude they were not engaged for that Government by King It hath been indeed the honour of the Souldiery that in all these changes they have still followed providence and have acquiesced acting and living in practical conformity but I wish they would be satisfied for their love sake to us and their labours for us High should his reward be in Heaven and happy hsi remembrance on earth that would be the means of such an accord but to satisfie all men so divided as we are would be no less that a wonder I shall speak in a parable in the 37. Chap. of Ezekiel vers 16. the Lord said to the Prophet Take two sticks write upon one stick for Judah and the children of Israel companions and take the other stick and write upon it for Joseph the stick of Ephraim for all the House of Israel his Companions and join these two sticks in one stick and they shall become one in thy hand these are the two Nations of Israel and Judah two distant and differing names but they shall come under one King and David shall be their King thus they were united 5. Objection Justice hath been as well administred and as free from solicitations under these changes as before Answer you were pleased to say to undertook that charge to preserve from confusion which indeed is the worst of evil and the same reason might prevail with judges and other Magistrates to execute Justice and give to men their rights which is so desirable to all men and of absolute necessity Justice may be compared to the water in the spring if kept from his natural channel will break his way through the bowels of the Earth nature sometimes may suffer violence there is a peace in a cessation to war and their is a peace in the regard of the distraction may be termed but an intermitting peace for your Highness is pleased to acknowledge that the people call for a subsistery and cry aloud for settlement from which under favour I may infer that as yet there is no settlement so well settled as to be accounted perfect and good Your Highness is pleased to declare you had rather take a Title from this Parliament than any title from any other place or without it The Parliament of England is the Womb of the Commonwealth and in the Womb there hath been a conception and shape and proportion and form and life and groweth as far as the navel could nourish there hath been also a delivery and a name given there hath been conceptu conceptus partus opus and it hath been a great work to bring us to this delivery it is therefore the humble advice of the Parliament that your Highness would be pleased to make it speak the English tongue April the 16. Lord Com. Fines YOur Highness the other day laid down as a ground of your ensuing discourse this position that there was no necessity of the Name and Title of King upon which foundation your Highness seemed to build the arguments and reasons of your Highness dissatisfaction as to that Name and Title and that in such sort as the matter is now circumstantiated and stated by your Highness own self that there is a necessity either in the affirmative or negative if it be not necessary that the name be assumed it is of necessity to be declined and if no necessity to decline it then there is a necessity to assume it for although the nature of the thing be it self such as possibly may admit a latitude of argument upon the point of expediency and conveniency and that we are not shut up under an absolute necessity either the one way or the other yet the Parliament having given their judgement upon it and their advice to your Highness in it your Highness seemeth to admit that there lye the kind of necessity upon you to assume it if there be not a necessity to wave it for you will not without necessity decline the advice of the Parliament having said that you should rather chuse any name which they should six than any name whatsoever without Then it holdeth out thus much that you will not put expediency and conveniency but onely necessity in ballance with their judgement who are the proper Judges of things in that nature and what is most expedient and convenient therein for the three Nations which they represent and thought a name might otherwise be inconvenient yet accompanied with judgement of the Parliament it would become more acceptable to your Highnesse than any other name without as your Highness hath said and admitted and besides the grounds of dissatisfaction held forth by your Highnesse relating to conscience they must be such as are grounded upon a necessity in the negative through the reasons alledged by the Committee should not of themselves conclude but only in expedience in the Affirmative yet they are so far from concluding a necessity in the Negative that they do it by accident in the Affirmative because there is not onely no necessitie of the Negative but an expediency in the Affirmative which notwithstanding is more than lay upon the Committee to make out it being sufficient as this case is to shew that there is not a necessity to decline it is to conclude a kind of necessitie to take it and whether or no if the position laid down by your Highnesse were admitted the reasons give by your Highnesse do upon supposition conclude a necessitie of declining this Name is the question in the second place when first position hath been considered how far it must or need not to be admitted there is a double necessity in a natural and a moral necessitie a paternal necessitie falleth not under consideration rules if it be one respect because their is a kind of impossibilitie at once to enumerate all particular cases and circumstances wherein the chief Magistrate shall or shall not have power or right which many hundred of years hath done and fitted the Laws in all particulars to the Name and Title of King but to the Name of Protector or any new Name either all cases and circumstances must by particular enumeration be applied which would be the work of an age as it hath been of many ages in that Name of a King or it must be left at least in what is not enumerated boundlesse and Lawlesse which that it should not be there is a moral that is to say a politick necessitie or else to suit a particular enumeration there must be a general clause that in all things not particularly specified they shall be defined by the Laws and Rights belonging to the Name King and then the question will be meerly nominal and consequently not be put in ballance with the judgment of the Parliament for that a necessity in the Negative cannot arise out a meer nominal difference of the thing and the definition thereof being Identically the very same and there being no difference but only
that of a new Name which in the judgment of divers wise men may draw after it such a consequence as the putting of old Wine into a new Bottle which may hazard the loss of the thing and of the Laws and Liberties of the Nation which are desired to be preserved thereby as to moral necessity it is either so absoluta necessitate or necessitate precepti or necessitate medii for the first necessity there are but four things that are necessary in that sense as God is necessarily good true c. and as to that necessity which is virtute precepti it is so either primarily or secondarily in terrentu actus humani and of the latter sort is the matter in question of at all necessarily necessitate precepti for though Magistracy be an Ordinance of God primarily yet particular forms of Magistracy and Government and much more the circumstances of those forms as Names Titles and the like are first Ordinances of men before they are Ordinances of God first man set's his stamp upon them and then God set's also impresse upon them and therefore though they be but Ordinances of men yet the Apostle saith we are to submit unto them for the Lords sake whether to the King as Supream or to Governours as those that are sent by him and what Peter calls Ordinances of me Paul calls Ordinances of God and yet they are to be obeyed not onely for fear but also for Conscience sake so that in these forms of Government men may do as they will as in other contracts wherein it is free for them to contract or not to contract or to make their Covenants this way or another but when they have made them they must keep them for then Gods seal is upon them now as to the matter in question it is clear that the unquestionable stamp of humane Authority and the Ordinance of man in these Nations hath accompanied this Office under this Name for many hundred years together and if it was waved and laid aside as of late years it is now set up again by as good an Authority and a fuller representative of the three Nations and though it be onely by Petition to your Highnesse yet it is in some sort a Petition of Right for the people of these Nations have an Interest in their Government and Laws whereof this was amongst fundamentals as well as in their Liberties and Lands and although particular persons may have forfeited their interest in the Government yet I do not know that the Nations have forfeited their interest therein but if this point shall stem to be driven too far yet it is clear that if this Office under this Name and Title be most known and most suitable to the Laws of these Nations most agreeable to the desires and dispositions of the people and most likely to maintain quiet and peace in the Nations with Justice and Liberty which are the great ends of Govemment and of all Forms and Names therein as in the Judgment of the Parliament it is Then as it is the duty of the Parliament to advise it so doth thereby lay an obligation upon your Highnesse to accept it necessâ—â—ate medii as a necessary medium to attain those ends And whereas your Highnesse is pleased to say this medium is not necessary because the ends may be attained by another medium as appeareth in these two Names and Titles Custodes libertatis Angliae and Protector besides the experience in the one that was but of short continuance and of the other that it hath and doth still stand but in a shaking and uncertain condition and of both that they have attained the end but imperfectly and through the help of a great deal of force and though it cannot be denied but that the end may in some degree be obtained by such other mediums which may serve the turn in case of necessity and when no better can be had yet where such a necessity is in the case there doth spring out a kind of moral or at least a politick end of the contrary and of embracing that which is the best medium for in case of necessitie there might be a Government without any Laws and that Arbitrium boni juris should serve in stead of all Lawes and yet where Laws can be had none will say that Lawes are not necessary when a man hath a better Lamb in his Flock a worse will not serve but in that case there is a moral necessity that the best be brought for a sacrifice when the Parliament and they suppose the like reason extends also to your Highnesse are perswaded in their judgments that this is the best medium to preserve the Liberties and the Peace of the Nations and yet no necessity appearing unto them so to do should make choice of a weaker prop and that thereupon should ensue inconvenience and that the band of peace being broken blood and confusion should return upon the Nation it must needs also return upon their thoughts that they had been wanting in their duty in not providing the best remedy which possibly might have prevented the mischief which leadeth to the consideration of the second question in this matter whether admitting your Highnesse position that there is not a necessity of this Name King the reason held forth by your Highness makes out such a necessity as that you cannot take upon you that name though advised thereto by the Parliament as the best and most reducing to the ends of government withal granting out absolutely necessary if there fall not out to be necessity in the case to the contrary your Highness was pleased in the first place to mention the dissatisfaction as to this particular of many Godly men and such as have grown up all along with you in the carrying on this great cause as souldiers which indeed must needs be a very great and tender consideration to your Highness as it is also to all of us who reap the fruit of their prayers and of their hazards and great and worthy service and it would be a great happiness if it might please God that great and good things were carried on with unanimity and harmony amongst good men but the felicity hath never yet been granted unto us but that great matters and changes have been accompanied with great difficulties with great difference of judgments even amongst the best men as our late changes sufficiently testifie For your Highness knows well when that change was made whereby this Name and Office was laid aside how many Godly men and your old friends were dissatisfied therewith and yet those that had then the power did not think that they should therefore forbear to do what then was judged for the good of the Nation There was the like dissatisfaction on the other side of many Godly men when your Highness took upon you the Government under the name of Protector and yet it was not held an unjust obstacle to what was then thought good for
our Physick into our food To which I humbly answer had that been so the people might have had new Writs sent unto them for the election of their representatives who might have carryed on the publick affairs of the Nation by a new Parliament but it seems those times would not bear it and therefore a convention of select Persons were called unchosen by the people to whom all power was devolv'd and who had even a right to have perpetuated themselves by calling into themselves from time to time whom they thought fit so that Parliaments were not for that turn only laid aside but even by that constitution which did it were perpetually excluded by which it is evident that if Kings were de facto blasted Parliaments were the like yea much more for in the act for abolishing Kingship it was treason in those only who offered to restore it but by consent in Parliament but in that assembly there was no such provision for Parliaments ever as hath been said By their constitution Parliaments were excluded and to evidence how much stress there lies barely upon a legal name that assembly to give greater authority to their actings stiled themselves a Parliament as the only name the Parliament took notice of as the Supreme authority of the Nation which possibly may invite your Highness to believe that godly men and wise men think it essential to have Titles consonant to our Laws and therefore that your Highness in the exercise of the Supreme Magistracy will be the rather invited to assume the Title King that being consonant and that only being consonant to the Law I think all sober men agree of that Government but for the particular form thereof it is left to the wisdome of those which the people chuse to represent them to set upon such a form as may be most fitted to their Genius and likeliest to prove their good and quiet If any can prove that Kingship by the word of God is unlawful or that people have not power to give the Supreme Magistrate what name they think best I should be then silent but since that power is unquestionable in the Representative of the people and that they have desired your Highness to govern them by the Title of King and since also nothing can be objected against it and both reason and cuâ—â—ome pleads for it we earnestly hope you will not think fit to deny the people that which is but their Right and I believe it was not yet denied by any Supreme Magistrate to any people to which may be added that if the Kingship has been cast out by many providences your Highness accepting it will shew that it is restored at least by as many more as have happened in reference thereunto for its absolution to its restitution Your Highness did further object that some good men would be offended at your acceptance of that Title I confess it is very considerable and I think every judicial person of the House would be very cautious to give men under that character a just offence but your Highness will be pleased to permit me to mind you of the character you gave of good men in your last speech they are such you said as give obedience to Gospel-Ordinances which requires Obedience to authorities not for fear but for conscience sake That you reckon nothing of Godliness without the Circle and that any principle which opposeth thus was diabolical and sprung from the depth of Satans wickedness You were pleased further to say that though some good men scrupled at that name the Parliament thought fit to assume yet their doing so was no part of their goodness by all which it will be evident that your acceptance thereof cannot offend good men but by their esteeming their Obedience to a Gospel-Ordinance an offence which I hope no good men will or can do I shall also humbly beseech your Highness to consider that if on the one side the â—cceptance of the Title may offend some good men so on the other side the declining of it will give offence to the Parliament where all good men are legally and at once only represented The case of David when his child was sick may possibly parallel the case of such good men as are herein unsatisfied while as the child was sick he was very earnest with the Lord for the restoring of it to health but God was not pleased so to do and the child died his servants being of another principle than himself thus reasoned if his trouble and grief were so great while yet the child was not dead what will it be now it is dead but David reasoned thus while there was hope I wrestled with God but since his will is declared I chearfully submit to it I hope as scrupulous good mens cases in the particular of Kingship is a parable in the History so it will likewise prove in the event Your Highness was further pleased to mention some considerations in reference to safety to which I humbly answer the things that are offered to you are just in themselves in reference to Civils and Spirituals and so acknowledged by you that authority that tenders them is the Supreme legal authority of three great Nations You have a faithful and a good army and we have you at the head of them what shall we then fear To which I shall only add that safety hath been often in danger by the Kings and Parliaments disagreeing but this is the first time if it be in danger that ever it was by their agreement to which I may further add that whatever evil may arise from your agreement with your Parliament it will befall us on the way of our duty which is an inward comfort to ballance any outward evil But if any evil happens by your not closing with your Parliament we shall undergo the outward harm and be denied the inward support Your Highness was pleased to say your had rather have any name that is not given by them Permit me therefore now to say that to all other arguments we have one irrefutable and that is your own ingagement for the Parliament doth desire and advise you to accept the name of King hitherto we have pleaded but upon the accout of your engagement and it is humbly hoped your Highness who hath so ' exactly observed your word to your worst enemies will not break it unto your best friends the Parliament Lord Whitlock 16. April SIR I have very little to tuouble your Highness with so much hath been already spoken and so well that it will be hard for me or any other to undertake to add to it only the duty of my employment and something due to your Highness occasions me to speak a few words to acknowledge with very humble thanks the honour and right which you have done this Committee by the clear and free discourses and conferences which they have had with you Highness and for your frequent expressions and testimonies of affection
to that that I think was new What comes from the Parliament in the exercise of the legislative power which this is I understand it to be an exercise of the legâ—slative power and the laws were always formerly past this way and that of Bills was of a newer date I understand that I say but it is said that was is done by the Parliament now and simply hangs upon their legislative seems to be a thing that is ex dâ—nâ— not de jure not a thing that is of so good weight and so strong as what refers from them to the law that is already in being I confess there is some argument in that that is there but if the strength will be as good without it though it comes as a gift from you I mean as a thing that you provide for them or else it will never come at them so in a sense it comes from you it is that that they otherwise come by therefore in a sense it is ex dono for that helps a man to what he cannot otherwise come by he doth on act that is very near a gift and you helping them to it it is in a kind a gâ—ft to them otherwise they could not have it but if you do it simply by your legislative power the question is not what makes this more firm whether the manner of the setling of it or the manner of your doing of it it 's always as great a labour but yet the question lies in the acception of them who are concerned to yield obedience and accept this and therefore if a thing that hath for its root and foundation but your legâ—slative in an act of yours if I may put a but to it I do not do so for I say it is as good a foundation as that other is and if it be as well accepted and that the other be less then truely it is I should think the better and then all that I say is founded upon the law I say all those arguments that are founded in the law are for it because it hath been said it doth agree with the law the law knows the Office the law knows the people knows it and the people are likelier to receive satisfaction that way those have been arguments that have been already and truely I know nothing that I have to adde to them and therefore I say also those arguments may stand as we found them and left them already onely this I think truely as it hath been said to me I am a Person that have done that that never any that were actually King of England refused the advice of the Parliament I confess that runs to all and that may be accounted a very great fault in me and may arise up in Judgement against me another time if my case be not different from any mans that was in the chief command and government of these Nations that ever was before truely I think it is they that have been in and owned to be in the right of the law as inheritours coming to it by birthright or otherwise by the authority of Parliament who yet have had some previous pretence of Title or claim to it I think under favour I deserve less blame than another doth if I cannot so well comply with the Title with the desires of the Parliament in it as others do for they that are in would take it for an injury to be out it truely these arguments are very strong to them why they should not refuse that that is tendred to them by the Parliament but I have dealt plainly with you and I have not complemented with you I have not desired I have no Title to the Government of these Nations but what was taken up in a case of necessity and temporary to supply the present immergency without which we must needs I say we had been all after the rate of the printed book and after the rate of those men that have been taken going into arms if had not been taken it was as visible to me as the day if I had not undertaken it and so it being put upon me I being then Generall as I was Generall by act of Parliament being upon me to take power in my hand after the assembly of men that was called together had been dissolved Really the thing would have issued it self in this Book for as I am informed the Book knows an Authour it was a leading principall Person in that Assembly when now I say I speak in the plainness and simplicity of my heart as before Almighty God I did out of necessity undertake that that no man I think would have undertaken but my self it hath pleased God that I have been instrumental to keep the peace of the Nation to this day and to keep it under a Title that some sayes signifies but a keeping it to anothers use to a better use that may improve it to a better use and this I may say I have not desired the continuance of my power or place either under one Title or other that have I not I say it if the wisdome of the Parliament could find where to place things so as they might save this Nation and the interests of it the interest of the people of God in the first place of those godly honest men for such a Character I reckon them by and live in the fear of God and desire to hold forth the excellency and Christian course in their life and Conversation I reckon that proceeds from faith and looking to the duties towards Christians and to the humanity to men as men and to such liberties and interests as the people of this Nation are of and look upon that as a standing truth of the Gospel and I who lives up to that according to that is a godly man in my apprehension and therefore I say if the wisdom of this Parliament I speak not this vainly nor like a fool but as to God and if the wisdome of this Parliament should have found a way to settle the interests of this Nation upon the foundations of Justice and truth and liberty to the people of God and concernments of men as English men I would have layn at their feet or any bodies feet else that this might have run in such a currant and therefore I say I have no pretentions to things for my self or to ask this or that or to avoid this or that I know the censures of the world may quickly pass upon me but I thank God I know not where to lay the weight that is laid upon me I mean the weight of reproach and contempt and scorn that hath been cast upon me I have not offered you any name in competition with Kingship I know the evil spirits of men may easily obtrude upon a man that he would have a name that the law knows not and that is boundless and is that under which a man exercises more arbitrariness but I know there is nothing in that
be General then they were not affraid of Arbitrary Government such as these are such hypocrisies as these are should they enter into the heart of any man that hath any truth or honesty in him and truely that is our case and finding our case to be thus we did press the Parliament as I told you that they would be pleased to select some worthy persons that had loved this cause and the Liberties of England and the interest of it and we told them we could acquiesce and lie at their feet but to be thrown into Parliaments that should sit perpetually though but for three years they had the experience of The experience of which many remain to this day to give satisfaction to honest and sober men why truly we thought it might satâ—sfie but it did not and thereupon we did think that it was the greatest of dangers to be overwhelmed and brought under a slavery by our own consent and iniquity to become a law and there was our ground we acted upon at that time and truly they had perfected the Bill for perpetuating of Parliaments to the last clause and were resolved to pass it as a Bill in paper rather than comply with any expedient if your own experience add any thing to you in this in this point whether or no in cases civil and criminal if a Parliament should assume an absolute power without any controul to determine the interests of men in property liberty whether or no this be desirable in a Nation if you have any sence as I believe you have you have more then I have I believe you will take it for a mercy that that did not befall England at that time and that 's all I will say of it truly I will now come and tell you a story of my own weakness and folly and yet it was done in my simplicity I dare avow it was and though some of my companions and truly this is a story that would not be recorded a story that would not be told but when good use may be made of it I say it was thought then that men of our judgment that had fought in the Wars and were all of a piece upon that account why surely these men will hit it and them Men will do it to the purpose whatever can be desired truly we did think and I did think so the more to blâ—me of and such a Company of Men were chose and did proceed in action and truly this was the naked truth that the issue was not answerable to the simplicity and honesty of the design what the issue of that meeting would have been and was feared upon which the sober Men of that meeting did withdraw and came and returned my Power as far as they could they did actually the greater part of them into my own hands professing and believing that the issue of that meeting would have been the subversiâ—n of your Laws and of all the Liberties of this Nation the destruction of the Ministers of this Nation In a word the confusion of all things and instead of order to set up the judicial law of Moses in abrogation of all our Administrations to have been administred the Judicial Law of Moses pro hic nunc according to the wisdom of any man that would have interpreted the Text this way or that way and if you do not believe that they were sent home by the major part who were judicious and sober and learned the worst upon this account and with my consent also à parte post you will believe nothing for the persons that lead in the meeting where Mr. Feake and his meeting in Black fryars Major General Harâ—â—son and those that associated with him at one Mr. Squibbs House and there were all the resolutions taken that were acted in that House day by day and this was so de facto I know it to be true and that this must be the product of it I do but appeal to that Book I told you of the other day that all Magistracy and Ministery is Antichristian and therefore all these things ought to be abolished which we are certain must have been the issue of that meeting so that you have been delivered if I think right from two evilâ— the one evil a secular evil that would have swallowed up all religious and civil interest and made us under the â—orridest arbitrariness that ever was exercised in the â—â—rld that we might have had five or six hundred sâ—â—â—ds with their friends to have had a judgment of a 〈◊〉 and to have judged without a rule thinking that the power that swallowed up all the other lawful powers in the Nation hath all the power that ever they had both a legislative and judiciarie I say that which swallows both the civil and religious interest And the other meerly under a spiritual interest had swallowed up again in another extream all our civil and religious interest and had made our ministrie and all the things we are beholding to God for truly we think we ought to value this interest above all interests in the world but if this latter had not been as sure destroyed as the former I understand nothing and having told you these two things truly I must needs say it makes me in love with this Paper and with all things in it and with these additions that I have to tender to you and with settlement above all things in the world except that where I left you the last time and for that I think we have debated I have heard your mind and you have heard mine I have told you my heart and my judgment and the Lord bring forth his own issue I think we are now to consider not what we are on the foot and of the Government that called this Parliament which till there be an end put to it is that that hath existence and I shall say nothing to that if that accomplisheth the end of our fighting and all those blessed and good ends that we should aim at if it do I would we might have that and remain where we are if it doth not I would we might have that which is better which truly I now come out of my self to tell you that as to the substance and body of your instrument I do look upon it as having things in it if I may speak freely and plainly I may and we all may I say the things that are provided for in this Government have the Liberties of the people of God so as they never had it and he must be a pitiful man that thinks the people of God ever had that Liberty either de facto or de jure that is to say de jure from God I think they have had it from the beginning of the World to this day and have it still but asserted by a jus humanum I say they never had it so as they have it now and I think you have provided for the Liberty of the
not better In that Article which I think is the fifth Article which concerns the nomination of the other House in the beginning of that Article it is that the House is to be nominated as you design it and the approbation is to be from this House I would say to be from the Parliament it is so but then now if any shall be subsequently named a ter this House is sat upon any accidentall removall or death you doe not say though it seems to refer to the sâ—â—e that the first election doth yet it doth not refer clearly to this that the nomination shall be where it was in the chief Officer and the approbation of the other House if I do express it clearly that you pardon me in but I think that is the aim of it it is not clearly exprest there as I think you will be able to judge whether it be or no. In the 7. Article that which concerns the revenue that is the revenue that you have appointed to the Government which you have distributed 300000 l. of it to the maintenance of the civil Authority 1000000 l. to be distributed to the maintenance of your Forces by Sea and Land you have indeed said it in your instrument and we cannot doubt of it but yet you have not made it certain nor yet those temporary supplies which are intended for the peace and safety of the Nations It is desired that you will take it into your thoughts and make both those certain both as to the sum and time that those supplies shall be continued and truly I hope I do not curry favour with you but it is desired and I may very reasonably desire it that these monies whatever they are that they may not if God shall bring me to any interest in this business which lyeth in his own power that these monies may not be issued out by the Authority of the chief Magistrate but by the advice of his Councel seeing you have in your instrument made a coordination in general terms that this might be a reserved thing that the monies might not be distributed it will be a safety to whomsoever is your supream Magistrate as well as security to the publick that the monies might be issued out by the advice of the Councel and that the Treasurers that receive this money may be accountable every Parliament within a certain time limited by your selves every new Parliament the Treasurer may be accountable to the Parliament for the disposing of the Treasury and there is mention made of the Judges in the 9. Article It is mentioned â—hat the Officers of State and the Judges are to be chosen by the approbation of the Parliament if there be no Parliament sitting if there be never so great a loss of Judges it cannot be supplied and whether you do not intend that it should be by the choice with the consent of the Counsel in the intervals of Parliament to be afterwards approved by Parliament The 12. Article relates to several qualifications that persons must be qualified with that are put into places of publick Office and Trust now if men shall â—â—ep into publick Places and Trust that are not so qualified they may execute it an Office of â—rust is a very large word it goeth to almost a Constable if not altogether it goeth far now iâ— any shall come that are not so qualified they certainly do commit a breach upon your rule and whether you will not thi k in this case that if any shall take upon them an Offi e of Trust that a penalty shall be put upon them where he is excepted by the general rule whethâ—r you will not think it sit in that respect to deterr men from accepting of offices and places of trust contrary to that Article the next is fetcht in some respects I may say by head and shoulders in your instrument yet in some respects it hath affâ—nity with it I may say I think is within your order upon this account I am sure of it there is a mention in â—â—e last parts of your instrument of your purpose to do many good things I am confident not like the Gentlâ—man that made his last will and set down a great number of the names of men that should receive benefit by him and there was no sum at the latter end I am confident you are resolved to deal effectually in the thing at the latter end and I should wrong my own confidence if a should think otherwise I hope you will think sincerely as before God that the laws may be regulated I hope you will We have been often talking of them and I remembred well at the old Parliament that we were three months and could not get over the word Incumbrances and then we thought there was little hope of regulating of the law when there waâ— such a difficulty as that but surely the laws need be regulated and I must needs say I think it is a Sacrifice acceptable to God upon many accounts and I am perswaded it is one thing that God looks for and would have I confess if any man would ask me why how would you have it done I confess I do not know how but I think verily at the least the delaies in suites and the excessiveness in sees and the costliness of suites and those various things that I do not know what names they bear I heard talk of demurrers and such like things which I scarce know but I say certainly that the people are greatly suffering in this respect they are so and truly if all this whole business of settlement whatsoever the issue of it shall be it comes as I am perswaded that it doth as a thing that would please God by a Sacrifice in or rather as an expression of our thankfulness to God I am perswaded that this will be one thing that will be upon your hearts to do something that is honourable and effectual in it that truly I say that it is not in your instrument in somewhat that relates to the reformation of manners you will pardon me my fellow souldiers that were raised upon that just occasion of the insurrection not only to secure the peace of the Nation but to see that persons that were least likely to help on peace or continue it but rather to break dissolute and loose persons that can go up and down from house to house and they are Gentlemens sons that have nothing to live on and cannot be supplied to live to the profit of the Common-wealth which I think had a good course taken with them and I think that which was done to them was honourable and honestly and profitably done and for my own part I must needs say it shewed the dissoluteness which was then in the Nation as indeed it springs most from that part of the Cavaliers should that party run on and no care be taken to reform the Nation to prevent perhaps abuses that will not fall under this consideration
Parliament shall determine that another Name shall run through the Laws I believe it may run with as free a passage as this which is all that I have to say upon that head And if this be so then truly other things may fall under a more indifferent consideration and then I shall arrive at some issue to answer for my self in this great matter and all this while nothing that I shall say doth any way determine against my resolution or thoughts against the Parliament but really and honestly and plainly considering what is fit for me to answer The Parliament desires to have this Title it hath stuck with me and yet doth stick and truly although I hinted the other day that it is thought that your arguments to me did partly give positive grounds for what was to be done and comparative grounds saying that which you were pleased to do and I gave no cause for that I know of that is to compare the effects of Kingship with such a name as I for the present bear with Protectorship I say I hope it will not be understood that I do contend for the name or any name or any thing but truly and plainly if I speak as in the Lords presence I in all things right as a person under the disposition of the providence of God neither naming one thing nor other but only answering to this Name or Title for I hope I do not desire to give a rule to any body because I have professed I have not been able and I have said truly I have not been able to give one to my self but I would be understood in this I am a man standing in the place I am in which place I undertook not so much out of the hope of doing any good as out of a desire to prevent mischief and evil which I did see was eminent in the Nation I say we were running headlong into confusion and disorder and would necessarily run into blood and I was passive to those that desired me to undertake the place which now I have I say not so much of doing good which a man may lawfully if he deal deliberately with God and his own Conscience a man may I say lawfully if he deal deliberately with God and his own Conscience a man may lawfully as the case may be though the case is very tickle desire a great place to do good in I profess I had not that apprehension when I undertook the place that I could do much good but I did think that I might prevent eminent evil and therefore I am not contending for one name compared with another and therefore have nothing to answer to any arguments that were used in giving preference to Kingship or Protectorship for I should almost think that any name were better than my name and I should altogether think any person fitter than I am for any such business and I complement not God knows it but this I should say that I do think from my very heat that in your setling of the peace and liberties of this Nation which cries as loud upon you as ever Nation did for somewhat that may beget a consistance otherwise the Nation will fall to pieces and in that as far as I can I am ready to serve not as a King but as Constable for truely I have as before God thought it often that I could not tell what my business was nor what I was in the place I stood save comparing it with a good Constable to keep the peace of the Parish and truly this hath been my content and satisfaction in the troubles that I have undergone that yet you have peace why now truly if I may advise I wish to God you may but be so happy as to keep peace still if you cannot attain to these perfections as to do this I wish to God we may have peace that do I but the fruits of Righteousness are shown in meekness a better thing than we are aware of I say therefore I do judge for my self there is no such necessity of the thing for the other names may do as well I judge for my self I must say a little I think I have somewhat of Conscience to answer as to this matter why I cannot undertake this Name why truly I must needs go a little out of the way to come to my reasons and you will be able to judge of them when I have told you them and I shall deal seriously as before God if you do not all of you I am sure some of you do and it behoves me to say I know my calling from the first to this day I was a person that from my first employment was suddenly preferred and lifted up from lesser trusts to greater from my first being a Captain of a Troop of Horse and I did labour as well as I could to discharge my Trust and God blessed me as it pleased him and I did truly and plainly and then in a way of foolish simplicity as it was judged by very great and wise men and good men too desired to make of my instruments to help me in this work and I will deal plainly with you I had a very worthy friend then and he was a very noble person and I know his memory was very grateful to all Mr. John Hamden at my first going out into this Engagement I saw their men were beaten at every hand I did indeed and desired him that he would make some additions to my Lord Essex's Army of some new Regiments and I told him I would be serviceable to him in bringing such men in as I thought had a spirit that would do something in the work this is very true that I tell you God knows I lye not your Troops said I are most of them old decayed Servingmen and Tapsters and such kind of Fellows and said I their Troops are Gentlemens Sons younger Sons and persons of Quality do you think that the spirits of such base and mean Fellows will be ever able to encounter Gentlemen that have Honour and Courage and Resolution in them Truly I presented him in this manner conscientiously and truly I did tell him you must get men of a spirit and take it not ill what I say I know you will not of a spirit that is likely to go on as far as Gentlemen will go or else I am sure you will be beaten still I told him so I did truly He was a wise and worthy person and he did think that I talked a good notion but an impracticable one truly I told him I could do somewhat in it I did so and truly I must needs say that to you impart it to what you please I raised such men as had the fear of God before them and made some Conscience of what they did and from that day forward I n ust say to you they were never beaten and wherever they were engaged against the Enemy they beat continually and truely this is matter