and the Isralites now not of this world Ioh. 15.19 then the king thereof is not of this world as they are not of this world Ioh 17.16 aÌ„d if these spiritual lords coÌ„fesse that Chr king now of the sand aÌ„d people of Israel but yet he hath left our lord the king hâ—s deputy to make such lawes and lords over the church as pleaseth him the word of the lord is against theÌ„ â—ere is but one â—ord 1. Cor. 12.5 one law giver Iam. 4.12 over his Church Nay his Ma himself is against theÌ„ who saith There is no earthly monarch ever the Church whose word must be a law saith further Christ is his Churches monarch the holy ghost his deputy alleging luk 22.25 the kings of the Gentiles beare rule one over another c. but I shal not be so among you saying further Christ then he ascended left not Peter with them to direct theÌ„ in al truth but promissed to send the holy ghost to them for that end c. If any wishe rebellions against the word of the lord herein yet let them not be rebellious against the word of the king Oh that any thinge would prevail with theÌ„ to make them leave of these cruel courses of persecuting poore soules that desire truely to feare God and are most faithful subjects to the king and desire also the salvatioÌ„ of the soules of these their cruel persecutors who do seeke their vtter vndoeing by al the forenamed persecutions onely because they cannot of faith offer vp such worship to God as these spirituall lords comaund and the rather let them leave of persecutinge seeing the kings Ma tie acknowledgeth It is a sure rule in divinitie that God loves not to plant his church by violeÌ„ce bloodshed And if it be a law for al ChristiaÌ„s that in indifferent thinges one must not offeÌ„d another but the stronge but forbeare rather theÌ„ offeÌ„d his weake brother other wyse he wounds the weake conscience sinnes against Christ 1. Cor 8. TheÌ„ how much lesse hath any man power to be lord over the weake conscience forceing it to practice that it hath not faith in bringing it thereby vnto same and vnto condemnation Rom. 14. wee do vnfainedly acknowledg the authority of earthly Magistrats Gods blessed ordinance and that al earthly authority and comaund apperteynes vnto theÌ„ let them comaund what they will wee must obey either to do or suffer vpoÌ„ paine of Gods displeasure besides their punishment But al men must let God alone with his right which is to be lord and law-giver to the soule aÌ„d not comaund obedience for God where he comaundeth none And this is onely that which wee dare not but maintaine vpoÌ„ the peril of our soules which is greater then bodily afflictioÌ„ And onely for the maintenance of Christs right herein do false Prophets and deceivers who by that craft are clothed in fyne apparel and faire deliciously every day labor to make vs odious iÌ„ the ears aÌ„d eyes of Prince and people knoweing wel that if they had not power by persecution to force meÌ„ to dissemble to beleeve as they their kingdome and paine would soone come to nought the wickednes of which course is discovered in this writinge followeing For the manner being Dialogue-wise wee thought it the fittest in two respects First for the vnderstanding of the simple to whome especially Gods misteries apperteyne more then to the wise and prudent of the world Secondly because al the objections that wee have met with might be set downe and the playnelyer answered And because wee have faith and assurance that many wil see and acknowledg the vnlawfulnes of tyraÌ„nyzing over the conscieÌ„ce vn persecuting the bodies of such as cannot be subject wee have also thought it meet to manifest the careful estate of such subjection that they may deliver their soules if they wil be saved and also have set downe the beginning of that old and good way that Iohn Baptist Christ Iesus aÌ„d his Apostles have left vnto al that wil be saved â—nto the end of the world Beseeching that Almighty worker that he would worke in the harts and consciences of men that they may enquire for it and that out of the scriptures and walke therein theÌ„ shal they find rest vnto their soules although afflictions to their bodies Oh 〈…〉 is time for the Lord to worke for they have destroyed his law and have set vp in many Nations such worship for God as best pleaseth theÌ„ that are in authority and have power to persecute the contrary mynded Let all Gods people cry How long Lord when wilt thou come to destroy Antychrists cruel Kingdome and establish Christs meeke and peaceable Kingdome as thou haist begun even come Lord Iesus by the Spirit of thy Moueth and the brighnes of thy coming even come quickely Amen By Christs vnworthy witnesses his Majesties faithful subjects Comonly but most falsly called Annabaptists Antichristian VVhy come you not to Church Christian What should I do there A. VVorship God C. I must worship God as he requireth aÌ„d not as any mortal man requireth A. True but the worship that wee require you to offer vp is the vvorship God requireth C. If it be so I wil withal willingnes asseÌ„t vnto it but my conscience must be satisfied there of by the word of truth that I may have faith in it other wise it is my grevious sai Rom. 14.23 For I may not beleeve it so to be because you affirme it A. VVell you must go to Church othervvise you are disobedient to the law vvil fall vnder punishment C. But still remember that you would have me worship God as you pretend therefore let vs agree what worship God requireth Christ saith Ioh 4.24 God is a spirit they that worship him must worship him in spirit truth Here wee see what worship God requireth viz That wee worship him with our soules and Spirits and also that we worship him according to the truth of his word And therefore for your booke worship If it were according to truth from the which it is as far as light is from darknes yet if I cannot offer it vp with my Spirit it is not acceptable to God but most abhominable A. Well you must come to Church C. I pray let aske you a question do you seeke the glory of God and the salvation of my soule herein or your owne obedience A. I seeke the glory of God and the salvation of your soule not my ovvne obedience C. Then manifest it no by words onely but by deeds and truth which if you do you will not threaten me punishmeÌ„t to cause me to come but with meekenes and patience satisfye my conscience by the word of truth for this is the duety of the Minist of Christ 2. Tim. 2.24 that I may come with a willing mynd so shall I be accepted 2. Cor. 8.12 Psal 110.3 For if by threatning me punishment as imprisonment banishment or death
which reason men might set vp as truely the whole law as some parte and vtterly abolish Christ I pray you seriously consider what is here said A. Hath not the King the same â—ovver that the Kings of Israel had who coÌ„pelled meÌ„ to the observation of the lavv of God C. First I answere you that the kings off Israel had never power from God to set vp any thinge in or for the service of God bur that onely which was comaunded by God Dewt. 4.2 No not so much as the manner of any law Num. 15 16. and 9.14 and therefore this will not serve your purpose that Kings may set vp within their dominions such spirituall lords and lawes for the serveing of God no nor the manner there of as may best please theÌ„selves vnder what pretence soever thereby makeing God for his worship subject to their pleasures And his Ma tie acknowledgeth that Christs Church after the establishing of it by miracles in the primitive time was ever after to be governed within the limits of his revealed will Speach at Parl Anno 1609 Secondly the Kings of Israell might compell men to the sacrifices and ordinances of the old Testament all which were carnall and purged not the conscience Heb. 9.9.10 as circumcision the passover etc But no mortall Man whatsoever he be can compel any maÌ„ to offer the sacrifices of the new Testament which are spiritual and purge the conscience except he can beget faith in him and convert his soule The ordinances of the old Testament were to be performed by the posteritie of Abra. according to the flesh that thereby they might be taught Christ but the ordinaÌ„ces of he new TestameÌ„t are to be performed onely by the posterity of AbrahaÌ„ according to the faith that have learned Christ and have put on Christ and so haveing him all thinges els apperteyneth to them But one thinge I demaunde of you who now is King of Israel A. I confesse Christ is King of Israel C. Yes Christ alone is King of Israell that sits vpoÌ„ Davids throne and therefore mark the true proportion In the time of the old TestameÌ„t the Kings of Israell had power from God to compel all to the ordinances of God or to cut them of by their sword from the earthly Land of Canaan and the promisses thereof So in the new Testament the King of Israel Christ Iesus hath power from the Father to compell all to the ordinances of God or to cut them of by his sword from the Heavenly Land of Canaan and the promisses thereof The Kings of Israel onely had this power vnder the law and the King of Israell onely hath this power vnder the gospell And therefore whosoever will challenge this power vnder the gospel he must be the king of Israel in the time of the gospell which is particulier onely to Iesus Christ vnto whome all power in Heaven and in Earth is given And let it be here well observed that by this opinion of yours you make the Kingdome and ordinances of Israel vnder the Law and the Kingdome and ordinances of Israell vnder the gospell allone directly contrary to the whole Scripture for the Kingdome and ordinances of Israell vnder the lawe were of this world but the Kingdome and ordinances of Israell vnder the gospell are not of this world as Christ the King thereof himself testifieth Iohn 28. And therefore you setting vp a worldly King over this Heavenly Kingdome and ordinances you and all of your profession declare your selves to be of that worldly kingdome and so to looke for that Heavenly and spirituall King yet to come in the flesh being of the number of those that deny him to be come in the flesh anb so are deceivers and Antichrists whatsoever you say to the contrarie A. Well yet I cannot see but that as the Kings of Israel hath power from God to compell all their subjects to the vvorship then appointed so the King being a a ChristiaÌ„ King hath povver to compel his subjects to the vvorship novv appointed C. You may see if you shur not your eies that what power the Kings of Israel had vnder the law in matters of Religion Christ Iesus the King of Israell hath vnder the gospell but I pray you let me aske you this question You say the Kings Ma tie hath this power as he is a Christian King My question is whether it apperteyne vnto him as he is a King or as he is a Christian A. Neither simple as he is a Kinge nor as he is a Christian but jointly as he is compleate in them both for I grant that no heathen Kinge hath power to compell in matters of Religion but a Christian King hath C. Then you confesse that of a ChristiaÌ„ king may be deprived of his Christianitie for of his Kingdome or kingly power or any part thereof I affirme he may not be deprived he hath lost this power you plead for in compelling Men in matters of religion what say you to this A. I confesse if he may be deprived of his Christianitie he hath not this povver I pleade for C. Then I demaund this question whether every ChristiaÌ„ without respect of persons ought not to bee subject to Christs Lawes for his salvation A. Yes it cannot be denyed C. Christ hath given his censure Excomunication for the salvation of every Christian that he that will not heare the Church is to bee as a heathen and a Publicane that is hath lost all right and title in Christ and in his Church till he repent now I knowe it caÌ„no be denyed but every Christian whatsoever is subject to sin and so to excomunication to be as a Heathen etc If you say that Kings either are not subject to sin and to impenitency therein and so to this ceÌ„sure of Christ of excomunication for their impenitent sin then consider what you make them and God you make a lyer If you graut as you cannot deny that Kings aswell as others are subject to impenitent sin and so to excomunication for the same then they being deprived of their Christianity by your owne confession they are deprived of power to compel in matters of Religion the which if it were any part of their Kingly power they might be deprived of a part of their Kingly power by being excomunicate consider what a wicked doctrine you teach herein A. Doth not the Prophet say that Kings shal be nursing Fathers Queenes nursing Mothers to the Church And also it is said that kings shal hate the vvhore make her desolate eate hir flesh burne hir vvith fire VVhere vvee see that kings that have power authoritie shal destroy Antichrists kingdome nurrish cherish Christs kingdome C. Most true it is the lord hath spoken it and therefore it ought to be great comfort to Gods people but what is this to the purpose in hand namely that Kings may persecute the contrary mynded the words of the Prophet Esa proves that Kings aÌ„d
OBIECTIONS Answered by way of Dialogue wherein is proved By the Law of God By the law of our Land And by his Ma ties many testimonies That no man ought to be persecuted for his religion so he testifie his allegeance by the Oath appointed by Law 〈◊〉 2.4 He shal judg amonge the Nations reâ—uke many people they shal breake their swords also into mattocks their speares into sithes Nation shall not lift vp a sword against Nation neither shall they learne to feight any more 〈◊〉 11.9 Then shall none hurt nor destroy in all my Holy mountaine â— Cor. 10.4 For the weapons of our warrfare are not carnall but mighty through God to cast downe holds Printed 1615. To all that truely wish Ierusalems prosperity Babilons destruction wisedome vnderstanding be multiplied vpon you IN these days if ever that is true which the wisemaÌ„ said Eccl. 12.12 there is none eÌ„d in makeing many bookes much reading is a wearines to the flesh yet considering how heynous it is in the sight of the lord to force meÌ„ aÌ„d wemeÌ„ by cruell persecutioÌ„s to bring their bodies to a worship wherevnto they cannot bring their spirits wee thought it our duety for Gods glory the reformation thereof in this our owne natioÌ„ to publish this litle writing following wherein is manifestly proved by the law of God the law of our laÌ„d his Maties owne divers testimonies that no maÌ„ ought to be persecuted for his religioÌ„ be it true or false so they testifie their faithful allegiance to the King What shal men do striveing about matters of religion til this be ended For if this be truth that the kings of the earth have power froÌ„ God to coÌ„pel by persecution all their subjects to beleeve as they beleeve then wicked is it to resist aÌ„d the persecutioÌ„s of such is iustly vpon theÌ„ and the Magistrats that execute the same are clere froÌ„ their blood aÌ„d it is vpoÌ„ their owne heads but if the kings of the Earth have not power from God to compel by persecution any of their subjects to beleeve as they beleeve seeing faith is the worke of God then no lesse wicked is it in the sight of God to disobey and the persecutions of such are vpoÌ„ the Magistrats the blood of the persecuted crieth vnto the lord and wil be required at the Magistrats hands Wherefore in al humility revereÌ„ce aÌ„d loyalty wee do humbly desire of our soveraign lord the K aÌ„d al Gods ministers vnder him as Iudges Iustices of peace etc. by whome this persecutioÌ„ is executed theÌ„selves to coÌ„sider not whether herein they please lord Bbs but whether they please the lord Iesus Christ who after a little whyle shall judg all judges according to their workes without respect of persons aÌ„d therefore are comaunded to kisse the sonne least he be angrie they pâ—rish in the way psa 2. our humble desire is that they would consider what is testified in the scriptures that The kings of the Earth shall give their power vnto the Beast til the words of God be fulfilled theÌ„ shal they take their power from hir If it be granted as it is that the kings of this nation formerly have given their power vnto that Romish Beast it shal evidently appeare that our lord the king and al Magistrats vnder him do give their power to the saÌ„e beast though the Beast be in another shape For as that spiritual power or beast of Rome sets vp a worship as they pretend for God and force al therto by cruel persecutioÌ„s the kings of the earth giveing their power therevnto so this spirituall power or beast of EnglaÌ„d sets vp a worship as they pretend for God and force al thereto by cruel persecutioÌ„s the kings Ma tie giveing his power here vnto Oh that al that are in authority would but coÌ„sider by the word of God which shal judg them at the last day what they do when they force men against their soules aÌ„d consciences to dissemble to beleeve as they beleeve or as the K and state beleeves they would withdrawe their hands aÌ„d harts therefrom aÌ„d never do as they have done partely through inconsideration and partely to please lord Bbs being in favour with the King It cannot but with high thaÌ„k fulnes to God aÌ„d to the king be aknowledged of al that the kings Ma tie is no blood thirsty man for if he were bodily destruction should be the portion of al that feare God and endeavor to walke in his waies as may be seene in the primitive time of this spirituall power or beast of England after that king Henry de 8. had cast of the Romish beast aÌ„d since so far as leave hath bene graunted them by hanging burning banishing imprisoning aÌ„d what not as the particulars might bee named Yet our most humble desire of our lord the king is that he would not give his power to force his faithful subjects to dissemble to beleeve as he beleeves in the least measure of persecution though it is no smale persecution to lye many yeares in filthy prisons in hunger cold jdlenes devided from wife family calling left in continual meseries aÌ„d teÌ„ptations so as death would be to many lesse persecution seeing his Ma tie confesseth that to change the mynd must bee the work of God And of the lord Bbs wee desire that they would a little leave of persecuringe those that cannot beleeve as they til they have proved that God is welpleased therewith and the soules of such as submit in safety from condeÌ„nation let them prove this and wee protest we wil for ever submit vnto them and so wil thousands and therefore if there bee any sparke off grace in theÌ„ let theÌ„ set theÌ„selves to give satisfaction either by word or writing or both But if they wil not but continue their cruel courses as they have done let them yet remeÌ„ber that they must come to judgment and have their abhominations set in order before them aÌ„d be torne in peeces when none shal deliver them And whereas they have no other cullor of ground out of the scriptures then that they have Canoâ—â—zed a law viz that whosoever shal affirme hat the K Ma hath not the same power oveâ— the church that the godly kings of Israel had vnder the law c Let him be excomunicate ipso facto The vnsound 〈…〉 s of which ground is manifested in this Dialogue followeing wherein is shewed their palâ—able ignorance in that they knowe not the mi 〈…〉 iay of God and therefore have they made this canon in flattery to the king onely to support their pride and cruelty for if the kingdome or and of Israell or Canaan now vnder the gospel be an earthly kingdome or land or Israel now a worldly or fleshly Israell as both were vnder the law Then wee would confesse there should be an earthly king therof but if the king some of Israel now be not earthly but heaveÌ„ly Ioh. 18.36
you cause me to bring my bodie and not my spirit or soule so shall I come neere to the Lord with my lips when my hart shall be far from him which he accompteth vaine worship and hipocrisie Mat. 15. A. I perceive what you aime at you would have none brought to Church but such as come willingly of themselves so should every man worship God as himself pleaseth C. Your conclusion I aime not at for I acknowledg that as there is but one God so there is but one way of worshipping him out of the which way whosoever is aÌ„d repeÌ„teth not there of shal pay a deare price and therefore it staÌ„deth all Men vpon not to please themselves in worshipping him But you perceive aright that I aime at this that none should bee compelled to worship God but such as come willingly for I will by Gods assistance prove most evideÌ„tly by the Scriptures that none ought nor can bee compelled to worship God to acceptance by any worldly meanes whatsoever A Prove that C. Wel I prove that I have affirmed thus First Heb. 11.6 Without faith it is vnpossible to please God and Rom. 14.23 Whatsoever is not of faith is sin These two Scriptures prove most evideÌ„tly that whatsoever I have not faith in inworshiping God although it were vndoubtedly true I may not offer it vp vnto God for it is displeasing to him and it is sin against him as also it appeareth plainely by him that came into the Kings supper and waÌ„ted his wedding garment Mat. 22. A. It is the Kings law that you must go to Church therefore you must bee obedient C. The intent of the Kings law is not so as appeareth both by the statute for the oath of allegiance and also by his Ma ties owne words manifested in his Apologie for the oath of allegiance as hereafter is more fullie declared For if the intent of the law were to make me come to Church to worship God and not of faith the intent of the law were to coÌ„pell me to sin which his Ma tie requireth not Antic I deny not but whatsoever is not off Faith is sinne but vvee vvould have you come to Church to vvorship God of faith C. It is not so you regard not whether I have faith or no for if you did you would not vrge the Kings law against me which is but a carnal weapon and cannot beger faith aÌ„d there fore is no sure ground of faith For in my obedience to God I must not presume above that that is written 1. Cor. 4.6 For the VVord of God is the onely ground of faith Rom. 10.17 and therefore if you would have me come of faith you would onely vrge the law of the King of Kings against mee A. Hath not all the Learned of the Land considered of these things set theÌ„ dovvne are such simple men as you likely to see more then all these C. I demaund of you whether they bee not all subject to err as all men are and therefore I must try their spirits whether they er or no. 1. joh 4.1 For I may not hold either that they cannot err or that if I find them to err I must obey them notwithstanding do you not herein teach me that Popish and accursed doctrine that you invaigh so much against in the Papists that I must beleeve as the learned of the land beleeves A. I do not hold that they cannot err C. Yes you hold either that they cannot err or if they do err I must obey them for if I do not obey them you threaten me punishment A. Nay but I hold that they being learned do not err therefore you must obey them C. Then this is your argument The learned do not err and therefore must be obeyed The 2 bs and the rest of that raÌ„ck are learned aÌ„d do not err aÌ„d therefore they must be obeyed another arg as vaine as this may be collected from this ground The learned do not err and therefore must be obeyed The Pope and the rest of that rancke are learned yea as learned as yours aÌ„d do not err and therefore they must be obeyed The one is as true as the other but both abhominable If you prove that they that want this learning must not meddle with the waies of God but as these learned men teach them then indeed you said some thinge but if you cannot as most certen it is you cannot For the word of God is against you herein then for shame to God and MeÌ„ leave of your cruell persecuting for why do you persecute Men that cannot of faith submit to your direction concerning the waies of God vpon which consisteth their salvation if they walke in the true way of faith with love thereof and their condemnation if they walke in by path A. Then I perceive if a maÌ„ can pleade that he hath not faith in any thing which the King commaunds he need not be obedient C. Would God all Men could see your dealing herein this is your vsuall course wheÌ„ your mouth is stopped by the power of Gods word that you knowe not what to answere then you runn to the Kings comaund and so make your matters good like vnto your predecessors the wicked Scribes and Pharisies who when our Lord and Maister had stopped their monethes that they had no word of answere then they sought to make him a trespasser against Cesar but I have learned in some weake measure that as there is a Cesar vnto whome of conscience I must be obedieÌ„t so there is another king one Iesus that is King of Kings vnto whome if you will not be obedient in giveing vnto God that which is Gods he will teâ—râ— you in peeces when there shal bee none that can deliver you cast you into the lake that burneth with Fire brimstone for ever more where thâ—re shal be no rest day nor night and therefore agree with this your adversarie quickly whilst you are in the vvay vvith him The power aÌ„d authority of the King is earthly and God hath comaunded me to submit to all Ordinances off Man 1. Pet. 2.13 â—4 And therefore I have faith to submit to what ordinance of Man soever the King comaunds if it bee an humane Ordinance and not against the manifest word of God let him require what he will I must of coÌ„scieÌ„ce obey him with my bodie goods and all that I have But my soule wherewith I am to worship God that beloÌ„geth to another King vvhose kingdome is not off this VVorld Ioh 18.36 VVhose people must come vvillingly Psal 110.3 VVhose vveapons are not carnall but Spirituall 2. Cor. 10.4 etc. Ant. Is this all the authority that you vvill give to the King C. What authoritie can any mortall Man require more then of bodie goods life and all that apperteyneth to the outward Man The hart God requireth Pro. 23.26 He comaunded to give vnto Cesar things that are Cesars to himself the things that are his
as they did it by extra-ordinary meanes so you may do it by ordinary meanes if you would vse onely those Weapons which Christ commaunded his Disciples to vse in this busines which are not carnall wee would agree with you herein But if your ordinary meanes bee such as Christ never had nor any of his Disciples then it is a meanes of your owne devisinge for Christ hath al meanes whatsoever for bringing Men to the obedience of the truth A. Doth not Christ in the parrable Teach that he compelled all to come in C. I demaund of you wherewith doth he compel them he hath no carnall weapons doth he not compel them by his word VVhich is his tvvo edged svvord Heb. 4 12. Revel 2.12 Doth he smite the earth vvith any other vveapons then by the breath off his lips Esa 11.4 A. VVell then you see compulsion may bee vsed C. Yes I confesse to you such compulsion as much as you will if wheÌ„ you have done you wil walke in his steps who when the Gaderens praied him to departe he left them and taught his Disciples where they should preach the word of God iff they would not receive them that they should shake off the dust of their feet for a witnes against them Mat. 10.14 Which accordingly they practized Act. 13.51 and 18 6. etc. He never taught them to pull the contrary mynded out of their houses aÌ„d put them in prisons to the vndoeing of them their Wives and Children This was Sauls course when he was a blasphemer and persecutor etc. Act. 9.1 etc. Christ taught his Disciples To wait iff at any time God would give the contrary mynded repentance and not to prevent their repentance by seeking their blood Indifferent man I have heard you all this while and by that I have heard I see evideÌ„tly that none ought to be compelled by any worldly meanes to worship God neither can any bee accepted in such worship in that it is spirituall worship that he accepteth C. Blessed be the Lord that you see it I would not you onely but all Men did see that the sword of the Magistrate and al afflictions proceeding there from are onely vpon the outward man and cannot convert a soule from goeing astray nor begett faith it comes by hearing the word of God Rom. 10.17 And therefore is no instrument in this worke Al that the Magistrate can do is to compell me to bring my bodie for except their be a willing mynd which no maÌ„ can see their is no acceptance with God and therefore it is not Gods glory nor my acceptaÌ„ce with him they seeke by forceing me but meerly their owne obedience to Gods great dishonor and the distruction of my soule if I should so do But iff it would suffice them to bring my bodie to that they call their Church and require of me no worship I will go when they will onely not when their false worship is performed For I adhor the accursed doctrine off the Familists herein I. It is a lamentable thinge to consider how many thousands in this nation there be that for feare of trouble submit to thinges in Religion which they diseprove off C. Oh whose eies doth not gush out with teares in the consideration thereoff seeing in all that God is highly displeased aÌ„d al those vnder the judgments of God everlasting iff they repeÌ„t not A. If it were as you would have it that all Religions should be suffered how daÌ„gerous vvould it bee to the Kings Person State what trecheries treasons would bee plotted I. Indead that is a thing greatly to be suspected but if permission of all religions should be clered of that there is no questioÌ„ but it might prevaile with the King and State C. If it be not cleared of that then let al meÌ„ abhor it First it is the comaundement of him who is the God not of confusion but off peace order and therefore to be obeyed Mat. â—3 30 Let the good bad grovv together vnto the end off the vvorld Suffering the contrary minded patiently proveing iff god at any time vvill give them repentance that they may acknovvledg the truth c. 2. Tim. 2.24 Secondly if the just lawes in that behalf made be but duely executed which is that all his subjects should protest their faithful alligeance to his Ma ties person Crowne and dignity all that will not be obedient let them be disposed of at his Ma ties pleasure and you shall see no such trecheries and treasons practiced as hath bene First for all those that seeke and practice in themselves reformation in Religion sathan himself cannot tar them with the least jott of trecherie and for the Papists may it not justly be suspected that one cheife cause of al their treasons hath bene because of al the compulsions that hath bene vsed against their consciences in compelling them to the worship practiced in publique according to the Law of this Land Which being taken away there is no doubt but they would be much more peaceable as wee see it verified in divers other Nations where no such coÌ„pulsioÌ„ is vsed for if they might have freedome in their religion vnto their faith full alligeaÌ„ce to the King the feare of the kings Lawes and their owne prosperity and peace would make theÌ„ live more inoffencively in that respect I. Onely the Papists are dangerous in that some of them hold that Kings aÌ„d Princes that hee excomunicated by the Pope may be deposed murthered by their subjects or any other C. For that damnable and accursed doctrine as wee abhor it with our soules so wee desire al other may And therefore all the Lawes that can be made for the prevention of such exceecrable practizes are most necessarie But now I disire all men to see that the Bishops and wee justly cry out against this accursed doctrine and practice in the Pope and his associates That Princes should bee murthered by their subjects for contrary myndednes in Religion yet they teach the king to murther his subjects for the selfe same thinge viz for being coÌ„trary mynded to them in their Religion So likewise as that accursed doctrine is to bee abhorred in the Papists who teach subjects not to bee obedient to their princes that are excomunicate by the pope even so is that accursed doctrine of the Bbs. to bee abhorred who Teach Princes not to protect their subjects that are excomunicate by them in not affoarding theÌ„ either lawe or justice nor to beare testimony in any Court. Do not the Bbs herein justifie this accursed doctrine and practice in the Papists A. There is great difference in the persons for th one are Princes thother subjects subjects must be obedient C. Most true it is but is it not also true that Princes must afforde all their subjects justice aÌ„d equitie although they be as heathens and Publicans For iff Princes be freed from doeing right and justice and protectinge their subjects that be excomunicate
wheÌ„ the fulnes of the gentiles is come in the jewes shal be coÌ„verted now if the jewes who are such fearefull blasphemers of Christ aÌ„d his gospel that contemne him and his TestameÌ„t with al dispyte if their conversion must be waited for aÌ„d that they may not be destroyed from the face of the Earth then who may not see iff they shut not their eies that the conversion off all is to bee waited for and that no man for blaspheming Christ aÌ„d his gospel map be destroyed or afflicted by imprisonments death or any calamitie whatsoever I. It is not to be gain-saied with any shewe of truth I would God the Kings Ma tie would consider of this point seeing that the cruel Bbs by vseing his power commit such sin against God in this thinge both in persecuting theÌ„ that cannot of faith yeild and also in foreeing them that do yeild contrary to their consciences to sin against God and to perish if they repeÌ„t not C. I am perswaded that if his highnes did but once wel wey aÌ„d consider it he would never suffer such high iniquitie to be coâ—â—iâ—ted against God contrary to his expresse comaundement aÌ„d all to bee done by â—he Kings power for nothing have they els to beare them out The Lord perswade the harts of his Ma tie and his posterity vnto it seeing his throne is established by him that he and his posterity may sit raigne over these Nations and Kingdoms till Iesus Christ the comaunder of these thinges come in his glorie to recompence every Man according to his workes without respect of persons A. If vvicked malefactors should bee let allone to the end of the vvorld then vvhere is the Magistrats svvorde it is of no force if evil men may not be cut of C. I acknowledg vnfainedly that God hath given to Magistrats a sword to cut of wicked meÌ„ and to reward the weldoers Rom. 13 chap. But this Ministery is a worldly Ministery their sword is a worldly sword their punishments can extend no further then the outward man they can but kil the bodie Luk. 12.4 And therefore this Ministery and sword is apointed onely to punish the breach of worldly ordinaÌ„ces which is al that God hath given to any mortal man to punish The King may make lawes for the safetie aÌ„d good of his person state and subjects against the which whosoever is disloyall or disobedient he may dispose of at his pleasure the Lord hath given him this sword and authoritie forseeing in his eternal wisedome that if this his ordinance of Magistracie were nor there would be no liveing for men in the world and especially for the Godly aÌ„d therefore the Godly have particular cause to glorifie God for this his blessed ordinance of Magistracie and to regard it with all reverence But now the breach of Christs lawes of the which wee all this while speake which is the thinge onely I stand vpon his Kingdome is spirituall his lawes spirituall the transgressions spirituall the punishment spirituall everlasting death of soule his sword spirituall no carnall or worldly weapon is given to the supportation of his kingdome nor to punish the transgressors of the lawes of this kingdome The law-giver himself hath comaunded that the transgressors of these lawes should be set alone vntil the harvest because he knowes they that are now tares may hereafter come to repeÌ„tance and bâ—come wheat they that are now blasphemers persecutors oppressors as Paul was may by the power of Gods word become faithfull and a faithful witnes as he was They that are now fornicators etc. as some of the Corin once were 1 Cor. 6.9 may here after become washed clensed sanctified as they were they that are now to people nor vnder mercie as the Saints sometimes were 1. Pet. 2.10 may hereafter become the people of god obtaine mercie as they did all come not at the First houre some come not till the eleaventh houre if those that come not till the last houre should be destroyed because they come not at the first houre then should they never come but be prevented A. Were not blasphemers put to death in time of he lavv 1 evit 24.11 c. C. Yes an Isralite blasphemmy the Lord or doeing any thinge presumptiously which was blasphemy Num. 15.30 no sacrifice to bee offered for him but would you from hence have the kings Ma tie to put al his subjects to death that conteinne the truth of Christ If yea see what will followe All Papists ought to be put to death who are direct blasphemers Revel 16 10.11 VVhen the viall of Gods wrath was powred vpon the throne of the Beast which all England confesse is ment the Popish power they blasphemed the God of Heaven c. All the Iewes that speake many thinges blasphemously against Christ ought to be put to death Yea of what profession soever he bee doeing any thinge presumpteously against Christ ought to bee put to death by your affirmation no sacrifice to bee offered no repentance to be admitted dye he must vnder two or three witnesses but that this is most false Christ and his Appostles in his TestameÌ„t doth manifestli declare as is before shewed was no Paul a blasphemer yet received to mercie But this the Holie Ghost teacheth from blasphemy vnder the law Heb. 10. He that dispyseth Moses Lawe dieth without mercie vnder two or three witnesses of how much sorer punishment suppose ye shall he bee worthy that treadeth vnder foote the Sonne of God counteth the blood off the Testament as an vnholy thinge wherewith he was sanctified doth dispite the Spirit of grace Speaking of such as had received acknowledged the truth vers 26. This is now the due proportion an Israelite according to the flesh in the time of the law presumpteously sinninge against Gods comaundemeÌ„t by his comaund must dye by the worldly sworde no sacrifice to be offered for him so in the new Testament or time of the gospel a spiritual Isralite according to the faith contempteously or dispitefully sinning against Christs commaund he hath former acknowledged dispiâ—eing and contemning them by his comaund must dye by the spirituall sword no repentance to be admitted seeing he crucifyeth againe to himself the sonne of God makes a mock of him Heb. 6.6 David and Peter came not within this compasse though they sinned off knowledg yet they did it not comtemteously or dispitefully but through frailtie If an Isralite vnder the Law did ought through ignorance as Num. 15. or through frailtie as Levit. 6. There was sacrifice for him so vnder the gospel an Isralit doeing ought through ignoraÌ„ce or through frailtie as Peter and Barnabas with the rest of the Iewes mencioned Gal. 2. or the meâ—steous person 1. Cor. 5. There is repentance for him This is it that coÌ„founds al true religioÌ„ That be cause it was so in the time of the law therefore it may be so in the time of the gospell by
Queenes that have formerly persecuted ād destroyed the church their harts shal be turned by the power of Gods word to be lovers and preservers of the Church ād the other place Revel 17.16 proves that Kings shal make that whore desolate etc. not by their tēporal authority or sword as some say that make more shewe of religiō then you do although thēselves be now persecuted yet if kings were of their mynds would be as cruell as you for they maintaine the same thinge but by the spirit of the lords moueth the brightnes of his cominge 2. Thes 2.8 For this kingdome of Antichrist shal be destroyed without hand Dan. 8.25 onely by the everlasting gospell the true armor indeed wherewith the witnesses feight against the Antichrist As the Kings Ma tie acknowledgeth Apol. Pag. 93. A. You are so stiffe against vseing off outvvard weapons in Church matters did not our Saviour Christ make a vvhipp of smale cords vvhipp the byers sellers out of the Temple And vvhy may not wee followe his example C. In this and many other actions of Christ our Saviour wee are to consider him as the fulfiller and ender of the law as in the actiō of the Passover sending him that was clensed of his Leprosie to offer to the Preist the gift that Moses comaunded in which thinges wee are not to ymitate him for by him the Ceremonies are fulfilled and abolished and the everlasting gospel established in the which wee are to walke and it were more then foolish to reason thus Christ whipped wicked Men out of Gods Temple made with hands with whips made of cord therefore wee may whipe wicked Men out of Gods Temple made without hands with whips made of cord There is a whole some doctrine to bee collected from the Tipe to the Truth as thus Christ drive out wicked Men out of the Temple made with hands by a carnall or worldly whipp so Christ by his people must drive wicked Men out of the Temple made without hands by a Spirituall whipp evē his word which is called a whip or rode Revel 2.27 and Psal 2.9 so is excomunication 1. Cor. 4.21 An. Iff fredome off Religion should bee granted there vvould bee such devisions as vvould bread sedition inovatiō in the State C. Thus when your shewes out of the scriptures are answered then you runne to conceits and ymaginations of sedition innovation and the like thinkeing thereby to diswade Princes and ali t◠at are in authority there from knoweing els your kingdome of iniquity would fal But that it may appeare to all that you deale deceitfully herein let vs consider first the scriptures secondly behold the successe of suffering of of Religion free in other Counries And first Christ our Saviour who is that Prince of peace Esa 9.6 not of sedition hath taught Mat. 10. and Luk. 12. That he came not to send peace on the Earth but debate to devide Fyve in one house two against three three against two the Father against the Sonne c. And a mans enimies shall bee they of his owne housholde And his desire is that the Fire of such sedition should bee kindled where wee see this Prince of peace putteth difference in Religion by preaching his Gospell which some receive as the savour of life vnto them others refuse it and so become enemies vnto the truth and witnesses thereoff as they did to Christ Iesus himselfe and his Disciples and as you do to me and others Secondly behold the Nations where freedome off Religion is permitted and you may see there are not more florishinge and prosperous Nations vnder the heavens then they are I. The convocation of Bishops and the rest have made a Canō that whosoever shal affirme that the Kings Ma tie hath not the same power in causes Eccleciasticall vnder the Gospell that the godly Kings of Israell had vnder the law let him be excomunicate Ipso facto C. Yes they have so In the beginning off his Ma ties raigne when they had got him sure vnto them of the which they so much doubted as with my owne eares I heard some of their cheife followers say whē his highnes was comming into England Now must steples downe wee shall have no more high commission with lamentation they spake it then they made this Canon because their consciences are convinced that they stand onely by his power and if his hand bee turned their Spirituall power of darknes falleth to the pit of darknes from whence it came and whether it must go there being never so much meanes vsed for the supporting off it for the stronge Lord hath spoken it Revel 18. As for their sending Men to Hell as they suppose with their ipso facto excomunications iff they had no stronger weapon for the supporting of their Kingdome it would stand but a short space If Israell now were of this world as it was vnder the lawe then they said somethinge but iff it bee not of this World as it is not Ioh. 17.14 Then the King is not off this world for when this King came the worldly Israell knewe him not I. I see evidently that al are but cavels and that no mortall Man can make any Man offer Sacrifices vnder the new Testament vntill he bee a beleever and converted for he must bee in Christ before he may offer sacrifices for in Chri onely the Father accepteth vs but what say you have they not power to compell Men to come to the place where the word is publiquely taught that they may be converted C. Wel then you see that the example of the kings of Israel who had power to compel thē to sacrifice or to cut them of applyed to earthly Princes is gone as a meere doctrine of man ād not of God And for compelling mē to heare that they be converted wee can learne of no better then of him who if wee heare not wee shal have a dreadful recompence He had al power in heaven and in earth for converting soules givē vn-him and sent his Disciples as his Father sent him Ioh. 20.21 Charging thē that whē they should come into a City etc. if they would not receive them nor their word to shake of the dust of their feet for a witnes against them saying it should bee easier for Sodom Gomorah in the day of judgmēt then for that Citie or house And so th-Apostles went from City to City accordingly Here was no Temples made nor worldly power to compel al to come vnto them to heare the word off the Lord but they comaunded to goe from City to City and from house to house I In those daies the Magistrats were vnbeleevers but the question is where Magistrats be beleevers C. Christ had al power needful for that worke if Magistracie were a power needfull for that worke thē Christ had not al power magistracy is Gods blessed ordinance in it right place but let not vs be wiser thē God to device him a
meanes for the publishinge of his gospell which he that had all power had not nor hath comaunded Magistracie is a power of this world the kingdome power subjects and meanes of publishing the gospell are not of this world A. A Goodly thinge indeed that Men must go about the Countrie to preach C. In your estimation it is base and contemptible your pompe and pride will not beare this it is more ease for you to hunt after promotion till you come to the highest in getting to be cheife Bishop of Bishops within these dominions and then cometh your fall full lowe iff you repent not but the wisedome of God hath appointed the cheifest Officers of Christs Kingdome even the Appostles thus basely to go vp and downe to and fro to preach his Gospel yea that worthy Apostle Paul preached this gospel night day with many teares openly throughout every house Act. 20. I. But if this bee thus as for my owne parte I am fullie perswaded it is then I see the high commission cannot stand for as I take it it is onely for causes Ecclesiasticall C. So far as it is over Church matters it is most vnlawfull for the comission for judging and punishing of the transgressors of the lawes of Christs Church is given to Christ the Monarch thereof a parte whereof he hath left to his Disciples which is no worldly comission or power but onely the power of the Lord Iesus the vttermost of which comission is excomunication 1. Cor. 5. A. The high commission is from the King dare you once call it into question C. If I do take any authority from the kings Ma tie let me be judged worthy my desert but if I defend the authoritie of Christ Iesus over mens soules which apperteyneth to no mortall Man whatsoever then knowe you that whosoever would rob him of that honor which is not of this world he wil tread theÌ„ vnder foote Earthly authoritie belongeth to earthly Kings but spirituall authoritie belongeth to that one spirituall King who is King of Kings A. Well all your pleading vvill not serve your turne either you must come to Church or els go to prison C. I have shewed you by the law of Christ that your course is most wicked to compell any by persecution to performe any service to God as you pretend Now I desire also to shewe you that the Statute law of the land requireth onely civill obedience and his Ma ties writings mainteyning the Oath of alligience Testifieth the same The law of the laÌ„d requireth that whosoever cometh not to Church or receiveth not the Sacraments the Oath of allegeance is to bee tendered to them which that it may be manifest to 〈…〉 that not onely I but al that professe the faith with me are most willing to subscribe vnto it in faithfulnes and truth I have thought good to â—presse it The words of the Oath Anno 3. Iacobi Regis I. A. B. do truely sincerely acknowledg professe testifie declare in my conscience before God the World that our Soveraigne Lord king Iames is lawful King off this Realme of al other his Ma dominions Countries And that the Pope neither of himselfe nor by any other authoritie of the Chu or Sea off Rome or by any other meanes with any other hath any power or authoritie to depose the king or to dispose any off his Majest Kingdomes of Dominions or to authorize any forraigne Prince to invade or annoy him or his Countries or to discharge any off his subjects off their allegiance obedience to his Majest or to give licence or leave to any off theÌ„ to beare armes raise tumults or to offer any violence or hurt to this Ma Royal person State or Goverment or to any off his Ma subjects within his Ma Dominions Also I do sweare from my hart that notwithstanding any declaration or sentence off excommunication or depravation made or granted or to bee made or granted by the Pope or his Successors or by any authority derived or pretended to bee derived froÌ„ him or his Sea against the said king his heires or Successors or any absolution off the said subjects from their obedience I wil beare faith and true allegiance to his Majesty his heires and Successors and him and them wil defend to the vttermost off my power against all conspiraces and attempts whatsoever which shal bee made against his or their persons their Crowne and dignity by reason or cullor off any such sentence or declaration or otherwise and will do my best endeavour to disclose and make knowne vnto his Majesty his Heires and Successors all treasons and traiterous conspiraces which I shal knowe or heare of to be against him or any of them And I do further sweare that I do from my hart abhor detest and abivre as impious and hereticall this damnable doctrine and position that Princes which be excommunicated or deprived by the Pope may be deposed or murthered by their subjects or any other whatsoever And I do beleeve and in conscience am resolved that neither the Pope nor any person whatsoever hath power to absolve me of this Oath or any part thereoff which I acknowledg by good and full authority to be lawfully ministred vnto me do renounce all pardons and dispensations to the contrary And all these thinges I do plainely sincerely acknowledge and sweare according to these expresse words by me spoken according to the plaine comon sense and vnderstanding off the same words without any Aequivocation or mental evasion or secret reservatioÌ„ whatsoever And I do make this recognition acknowledgment hartily willingly truely vpon the true faith of a Christian So helpe me God A. This Oath was intended for the Papists not for you C. It is not so For his Ma tie at the last Session of Parli Anno 1609. saith thus Some doubts have bene conceived anent the vseing off the oath off allegeance that parte off the Act that ordeynes the takeing thereoff is thought so obscure that no man can tell vvho ought to bee pressed therevvith c. And therefore iff there bee any cruple touching the ministering thereof I would wish it now to be cleared c. And therevpon this statute was made Anno 7. Regni Regis Iacobi c. Chap. 6. rowards the latter end And if any person or persons whatsoever of above thage of 18 yeres do now stand or at any time hereafter shal stand be pretented indighted convicted for not coming to church or receiving the lords supper according to the lawes statutes of this realme before the ordinary or any other haveing power to take such presentments or indightmeÌ„ts or iff the Minister pettie Constable or ChurchwardeÌ„s or any two of them shall at any time hereafter complaine to any Iustice of peace reare adioyning to the place where any person complained of shall dwell the said justice shal find cause of suspition that then
any one Iustice of peace within whose comissioÌ„ or power any such person or persons shall at any time hereafter be or to whome complaint shall bee made shall vpon notice there off require such person or persons to take the said oath And that if any person or persons being of thage of 18. yeres or above shal refuse to take the said oath duely tendered vnto him or hit according to the true inteÌ„t meaning of this statute that theÌ„ the persons authorized by this lawe to give the said oath shall may commit the said offender to the comon jayle c. where wee see that if any take the said oath at their first apprehension they are not to be comitted or if they being comitted take the said oath at the next open Court they are to bee set at libertie if they will not take the said oath to bee in premunire as is at large in the statute declared as is daylie practiced with Papists others A. The Kings Majestie requireth your allegeance to be testifyed by your coÌ„ming to Church C. I pray let me demaund this questioÌ„ doth the K require my coming to C to worship and serve God or to worship and serve the K if to worship and serve the K I am ready to obey if to worship and serve God which none can do but of conscience the King himself saith he never intended to say any thinge to the charge if any for cause of conscience aÌ„d this coming to Church being a cause of conscience if not he why do you lay any thinge to my charge for the same And therefore you wronge his Ma tie in thus affirming For his highnes requireth onely my faithful allegeance to bee testified by the a fore said oath and therefore hath ordeyned it as I shal shewe by his highnes own testimony If I should come to Church and not of conscieÌ„ce but for other respects as many Papists and other Hipocrits do to God it were most abhominable and what faithfulnes can be hoped for in such towards his Majesties person and state can any Godly wiseman thinke that he that playeth the dissembling hipocrite with God that he will do lesse with men and wil not worke any villany if it were iâ—â—â—â— power aÌ„d therefore herein you compelling 〈◊〉 by tyrannie to bring my bodie wherevnto my spirit cannot be brought you coÌ„pel me to hipocrisie with God and man for if my hart were not faithfull in sincerity to his Majesties Crowne and dignitie as I take God to witnes before whome I must be condemned or justified it is these courses would rather harde my hart to worke villany then otherwise Now for his Majesties many Testimonys in his wrytings they are worthy to bee recorded with thaÌ„kefulnes to the highest for guiding his hart and pen to write such thinges In his Apology for the oath of alegeaÌ„ce pag. 4. he saith Speaking of such Papists as tooke the oath of allegeance And I gave a good proofe that I inteÌ„ded no persecution against them for conscience cause but onelie desired to bee secured off them for evil obedience which for conscience cause they were bound to performe pag 60. Speaking of Blackwel the Arch-Preist he saith I never inteÌ„ded to lay any thinge to the said Arch Preists charge as I have never done to any for cause of coÌ„scieÌ„ce pag. 127. he saith First for the cause of their punishmeÌ„t I do constaÌ„tly maintaine that which I said in my Apologie that no man either in my time or in the late Queens ever died here for his conscience For let him be never so devout a Papist nay though he professe the same never so constantly his life is in no daÌ„ger by the lawe if he breake not out into some outward act expreslie against the words of the law or plot not some dangerous or vnlawfull practice or attempt c. Where wee may 〈◊〉 short what is the whole some that he req 〈…〉 And in his Majesties speach at the last Session off Parliament Anno Domini 1609. where he saith he sheweth his subjects his hart he saith thus I never found that blood and too much severity did good in matters off Religion for besids It is a sure rule in divinity that God never loves to plant his Church by violence and bloodshed natural reason man even perswade vs and dayly experience proves it true that when Men are severely persecuted for religion the gallantnes off many Mens Spirits and the wilfulnes off their humors rather then the justnes of their cause makes them to take a pride bouldly to endure any torments or death it selff to gaine thereby the reputation off marterdome though but in a false shadowe A most vndoubted truth which iff it bee as most manifest it is by the Testimony of the Holy Ghost throughout Christs Testament as before is proved then how cursed are al the ranke off you that continewally breake this sure rule off God thus confidently acknowledged by his Majestie planting your Church by violence and bloodshed forceing many thousaÌ„ds against their consciences to bee off our Church and to receive your Sacraments by all the persecutions that would followe if they did not yeild and those that feare God more then Men and dare not yeild casting them into noysome Prisons amongst most wicked Blasphemers off God to the wounding off their soules Deviding them from their Wives Children and Families and from their callings some an hundreth myles and more vtterly consuming that substance they have which sustaineth the blood of them their wives and Children seldome or never affording them release but either by yeilding to you against their Consciences or els by conâ—uming their bodies to death in prisoÌ„ banishment or the like leaveing them and their wives to horrible temptations of adultery in parting them their wives aÌ„d to al manner of evill in takeing them from their callings aÌ„d so leaveing them in continuall Idlenes Is Gods Church thus planted or do Christs Disciples thus plant I. Oh Iâ— this spirituall power is little inferior in cruelty to the Romish spirituall power I pray how or whi was this set vp C. Henry the 8. casting of Pope Clement the 7. and so the Popes power Anno 1534. set vp this Spirituall power vnder him see Act. and Mo pag 1201. etc. I. I pray you shewe the likenes betwene these two spirituall powers C. I wil doe my best endeavor which is but smale First the Romish spirituall power doth make lawes to the conscience and compel al therevnto by excomunication imprisonment banishment death and the like This spiritual power doth the like vpon the like pennalties as al knowe The Romish power doth give Titles to his Ministers which are the Titles off God and Christ as spiritual lords great Bishope aÌ„d many more This Spirituall power doth the like as all knowe The Romish power doth set vp Lords over their brethren in spiritual thinges vnto whome they comaund honor and great liveings to
Church that Christ hath appointed to vsed of his as also of their ministery is it therefore Chri Church and ministery They vse also the same washing water and words in baptizing their bells that they use in their baptizing their Infants is it therefore Christs baptisme If aÌ„swere be made bells are not to be baptised I answere no more are the seed of wicked persecuters by our opposites owne confession Iff this were any thinge you should see what will followe the baptisme of Rome is Christs baptisme because they use water and these words So if any vse water and these words as the Iewes or any other of Christs adversaries as the Papists are there is Christs baptisme consider this and see what truth there is in it A. Though the baptisme of the Chu of Rome should bee â—ought yet the baptisme of the Church of England may bee good in that there bee many thousands that were never baptised in the Church of Rome C. I answere that the first beginning off the Church of Engl was made of the meÌ„bers of the Chur of Rome as is apparant in the dayes off King H. the 8. and afterwards in the beginning of Q. Elizabeths raigne after Q. Marys death and so contynueth vnto this day and the long contynuance of it maketh it not aproveable aÌ„d the Papists theÌ„selves did the ProtestaÌ„ts prove if they have or hold any other baptisme Church or ministery then that they have from them aÌ„d shewe it and they wil recant Besides the baptisme now practized in the Chur of England is no better no otherwyse then that of Rome For the Chur of Rome baptizeth al the Infants of the most wicked that are in hir dominions and so the Chu of England baptizeth al the InfaÌ„ts of the most wicked that are in the kings Ma ties dominions and of this timber are both these Churches buylt and therefore wee may truely say as is the Mother so is the doughter And as they are in their first buylding so are they in the most of their lawes Lords Law-makers Courts aÌ„d thousaÌ„ds of their abhominations in so much as it is playne enough the latter is the very Image of the first vnto which whosoever submitteth or obeyeth or maintenieth their baptisme or any other of their humaine trash he shal be tormeÌ„ted in fire aÌ„d brimstone for evermore aÌ„d shal never have rest day nor night Revel 14. therefore in Gods feare cast away that cursed actioÌ„ of washing where was neither Chr disciple administring nor his Disciple vpon whome it was administred nor Christs body or Church baptized into and obey Christs voice in becomeing his Disciple aÌ„d to his Church that you may be baptized by his Disciple and be made a member of his body or Church This onely is Christs baptisme and of him acknowledged and ought to be off al his Disciples and the contrary to be held accursed and in no sort mainteyned or kept I. It is obiected that we must cast away that which is mans ordinance and reteine that which is Gods ordinance namely washinge and water and words C. I deny that any thinge in that action was Gods ordinance or appointment what truth is there in this to say that because God apointeth water and washing and words in his baptisme therefore howsoever water and washinge and these words are vsed that is Christs ordinance I confesse water aÌ„d washinge aÌ„d words are Gods ordinance being vsed as he hath comaunded the which I acknowledg must bee held but this vse of theÌ„ or action forespoken off being not the vse of theÌ„ or action appointed off God as the adversaries confesse is to bee cast away as execrable I Further it is obiected they repent of that which is evil and reteyne that which is good C. For the better discovering of this deceit let vs consider what is the evil then coÌ„fesse aÌ„d that they repent of say they an vnlawful persoÌ„ performed an vnlawful action vpoÌ„ an vnlawful person this is the evil Now this is the questioÌ„ whether this actioÌ„ thus vnlawfully performed may be kept and yet repented of The scripture teacheth that not onely confessing but foresakeing sin is repentance Pro. 28.13 CaÌ„ a theife that hath stolne goods repent thereof to acceptance with God and not make restitutioÌ„ to the party wronged being in his power or haveing ability to restore I would knowe how this wil be maintayned for the one is a greater theft theÌ„ thother I. It is further obiected that Ieroboams followers had no right to circumcision in their ydolatrous estate yet such as were circumcised in that estate were not afterwards circumcised when they came to repentance C. It is there foregery so to object for either they had right to circuÌ„cisioÌ„ being true Isralits although in transgression or els none had right to circumcision in the world no not Iudah For what caÌ„ be said but that because the ten Tribes were in rebellioÌ„ against God therefore they had no right to circumcisioÌ„ may not the same be said in as high a mesure of Iudah was Israels sin halfe so great as Iudahs If it bee said that Israel forsooke the place of Gods worship the teÌ„ple so did Iudah to worshipping vnder every Grene tree and Grove and high place whatsoever caÌ„ be said of the one as much may be said of thother This is a meere deceitfull forgery raised vp by Sathan in the harts of his false prophets to deceive theÌ„selves and theÌ„ that shal perish if they repeÌ„t not in that they receive not the love of the truth but beleeve these lyes and have pleasure therein concluding froÌ„ this false ground that because the Isralites in transgression were circumcised and after comeing to repentance were not circumcised againe so Egiptians Sodomites and Babilonians never haveing bene Isralites baptized in the Synagogues of sathan are not to be rebaptised as they cal it there being no comparison betwixt the persons th one being true Isralites acording to the flesh Gods people to whome by Gods appointement circumcision aperteyned aÌ„d who should have increased their transgressions if they had not performed it and thother true BabiloniaÌ„s Gods adversarys vnto whome God threatneth his judgments for takeing his ordinances in their mouethes or hands I. I see indeed there is no true proportion betwixt the persons in circumcision and baptisme for the one were the persons appointed of God to be circumcised which circumcision taught them the forsakeing of their wicked waies and bound them to the observation of the law Gal. 5.3 And they had no cause to repent of that their action thither are not the persons appointed of God to be baptized but sinned in that their action and must repent thereof by your opposites owne confession But if this be granted this question ariseth who shal then baptize after Antichrists exaltation C. For answere to this there are three waies professed in the world one by the Papists and their several successors professing succession froÌ„ the Pope and his