Treason Colledge Some of those Papers were received from me in the Tower and were brought back to me and taken away but to day I desire they may be returned Cl. of Cr. Are you Guilty or Not Guilty Colledge Those Papers tell me I have a Plea in Law but what it is I cannot directly tell without my Papers L Ch. Just You must mention it and propose it and then we will do what is fitting for us to do in it Colledge I have not that method about me nor can I directly tell it without my Papers but 't is something of Law about the Indictment L. Ch. Just You are not bound up to forms of Law For if you propose the matter never so loosely yet if it be a matter of avail and that which the Law is not clearly against you in you shall have Councel and time to draw it up in form Colledge I cannot propose the matter so regularly as if I had my Papers Mr. Just Jones You are not bound to propose it in formality of Law my Lord tells you only let us know what it is Colledge If I have a priviledge in Law I hope you will give me the benefit of it L. Ch. Just We will deny you nothing that the Law gives you but we cannot give you Councel It is not one particular Case but the Common Course of Justice is concerned Without a matter of Law arises we cannot assign you Councel if we would we cannot in Justice till you have proposed the matter which the Court thinks fit to be argued Colledge My Lord Coke sayes It is the birth-right of every English-man to have Councel in matters of Law and Lilburne had it upon solemn argument in his Tryal Mr. Just Jones What times were those That was before the High Court of Justice Mr. Att. Gen. If there be matter in Law it must be proposed to the Court and they are to judge whether it be a point fit to be argued and then Councel is to be assigned you and not till then Colledge My Lord I know not but there may be somewhat in Law for me to plead to this Indictment till I have my Papers I can't tell what it is L. Ch. Just We know nothing of your Papers what they are you must answer whether you be Guilty or Not Guilty Colledge If I had my Papers I would answer to it immediately but I hope I shall not be murdered Mr. Just Jones Have a care of aspersing the Court. Pray who intends to murder you Mr. Serj. Jefferies I remember in Lilburne's Tryal that he speaks of such words were used indeed Colledge My Lord I hope I shall not be deny'd what is necessary for my defence This design is not only against me but against all the Protestants Mr. Att. Gen. How long have you been a Protestant Mr. Colledge Colledge Ever since I knew what Religion was Sir I never was any thing else For Gods sake my Lord let me have the Justice of the Nation and what by Law an English-man ought to have L. Ch. Just You must plead Guilty or Not Guilty or you must shew some matter that you will plead that is proper for us to assign you Councel If we should record your refusal you would be judged to stand Mute and Sentence would pass upon you Colledge If I have a Priviledge in Law as an English-man I will not forfeit it if I can help it for any thing in the world Therefore I desire I may have my Papers again that I may see if I can plead any thing in Law for if I have a Priviledge by the Law before I will forfeit it you shall do what you please with me L. Ch. Just You 'l have the advantage of all that matter that is in your Papers after you have pleaded if there be any advantage Colledge Pray my Lord order me my Papers that were taken away from me L. Ch. Just They were not taken away by me Colledge They were taken away by the Keeper under pretence to bring them to your Lordship L. Ch. Just I know not how you came by them There came one to me last night that is a Common Sollicitor one Aaron Smith and desired he might have liberty to go and speak with the Prisoner I told him I did not understand till he were assigned by the Court that any could justifie Solliciting for a man that is accused of High Treason nor could any be of Councel till they were assigned for a defence against Treason ought to be by plain matters of Proof and Fact and not by Artificial Cavils But if you will propose any thing of substance as a matter in Law which the Court shall think fit to be argued propose it and then we will assign you Councel Colledge Is it not my right that I ought to have a Copy of the Jury L. Ch. Just Look you for that now you cited the Opinion of the Judges of the Kings Bench. My Brothers two of them that are here who are Judges in that Court say they know nothing of any such matter but I must tell you you have Liberty by Law to challenge 35. by your sight peremptorily without shewing Cause They are bound to look upon you when they come to be sworn and if you have any just Cause you may except against as many more as you will But now we that proceed upon a Commission of Gaol-delivery are to proceed with expedition there are no particular men designed for a Jury that I know of But when you have pleaded we shall award the Sheriff to impannel a Jury Colledge If the Law allows me the Liberty of Challenging it does intend it me that I may challenge those persons that I think will do me no Justice but where they are strangers unto me if I can have no Information about any of them by my own Inquiry or my friends I may challenge my friends as well as my foes and should there be any person that has a prejudice against me and I not know it he may chance to be one L. Ch. Just I hope they will be neither friends nor foes but true men Colledge I know not that my Lord. Mr. Just Jones This that you say as to a Copy of the Jury is unseasonable There is no Jury nor can be awarded till you have pleaded There must be first Issue joyned and that cannot be but upon your Plea of Not Guilty Therefore you must plead first and then say all you will Cl. of Cr. Are you Guilty or not Guilty Colledge My Lord may not I have a Pannel of the Jury Mr. Just Jones There is no such thing in being Colledge I know not what to say to it pray my Lord let me have my Papers Cl. of Cr. You have heard the Opinion of the Court you must first plead Colledge I cannot plead first I must lose my life if I must I neither know who accuses me nor what it is they accuse me of 't is impossible
the Jury that you can't have neither for there is no such thing as yet there is no Issue joyned whereupon such a Jury should be impannelled When you have pleaded to Issue then we must award the Sheriff to impannel a Jury to try that Issue So as to what you say as to want of preparation for your Tryal we cannot enquire what Notice you have had and yet if you had never so little time there is no cause why you should not plead though you were but just now taken and brought to the Bar to answer it and never heard of any thing of it before So that I think you ought to plead presently Colledge My Lord I am wholly ignorant of the Law I may ruine my self by mistaking the Law I desire Councel not to delay my Tryal but only to advise me whether there is not something in Law proper for me to plead to this Indictment and those things I alledged were not at all to delay the Tryal but only that I may not be wanting to my self in what I may by Law have L. Ch. Just I tell you Councel cannot be assigned you till the Court be possessed of some matter to grant it upon Colledge I had some Papers my Lord that were taken from me which I desire may be restored to me I only plead that I may have my Birth right and that which the Law gives me If I may have Justice I desire no more Those Papers were taken from me in the House over the way since I was brought from the Prison they were Papers that concerned my defence some directions and instructions how to manage my self in that defence If you please to let me have those Papers I will not take up much of your time I desire to have but Common Justice and that which is my right by Law L. Ch. Just That which you demand Justice you shall have by the Grace of God to the best of our skill without any partiality in the World But you must trust the Publick Justice of the Kingdom We are to be of Councel for you so far as to see that all things proceed fairly on all sides And when things come before us that are fit for you to have Councel upon you shall have Councel assigned you for we are tender of the Life of a Man as well as of the Life of the King and of the Publick Justice of the Kingdom But this is no reason why you should not now plead For the Papers you speak of we will take an Examination of them afterwards If they were Papers that are necessary for your defence upon your Tryal in Gods Name you must have them restored to you but we know not which way you came by them nor what they are Colledge They were taken from me just now under the pretence of bringing them to your Lordship L. Ch. Just How comes any body to give you Papers No body can solicit for any one that is under an Accusation of High Treason unless he be assigned so to do by the Court. Colledge God have mercy upon any man that is so accused then for 't is not possible for him to make his defence if he cannot be at Liberty to look after it himself nor any of his friends permitted to do it for him L. Ch. Just You can say whether you are Guilty or Not Guilty without any Papers Colledge My Lord I know not but there may be something in Law for me to plead to this Indictment which I shall lose the benefit of if I plead I humbly conceive you are to be my Councel and as you are Judges are to proceed according to the Law You are upon your Oaths to do me right according to the Law Mr. Just Jones But till you have proposed a matter of Law fit for Councel to argue there is no Councel to be assigned you Colledge If I had those Papers I could tell what I should plead My Lord this is one thing I am a Free-man of London and I am not impleadable by the Charter of London any where out of the Liberties of the City in Pleas of the Crown L. Ch. Just You are indicted in Oxfordshire for High Treason committed here If there be not any thing of High Treason proved done in Oxfordshire you will be acquitted But a Free-man of London cannot have a Priviledge to commit Treason in Oxfordshire but must be tryed for it there Colledge Will you please to order me my Papers back that were taken from me Mr. Just Jones You ought first to plead You have a right to demand Councel in matters of Law but then it must be upon such matters of Law as you your self propose to the Court and the Court shall judge 〈◊〉 matters of Law fit to be debated Till then we cannot assign you Councel Colledge It was so in the Tryal of Lilburne and in the Tryal of my Lord Stafford there was Councel assigned to them Mr. Just Jones Not before they pleaded to the Indictment Colledge Did not your Lordships some of you that are Judges of the Kings-Bench say that it was the right of the Prisoner to have a Copy of the Pannel and of the Jury before the Tryal Mr. Just Jones No sure Here are two of us that are of the Court and we never heard of any such thing Colledge Pray my Lord do me right I am ignorant of the Law and through my Ignorance may mistake L. Ch. Just God forbid we should not do you right you may expect it from us we are upon our Oaths to do all the Kings Subjects right Colledge I am ignorant in the Law and 't is impossible for me to make my defence without the Assistance of my Papers L. Ch. Just Cannot you tell whether you be Guilty or Not Guilty of this Treason Colledge I can so but I know not what error I may run my self into if I should plead presently and lose the benefit that the Law may give me L. Ch. Just All matters of Law are saved to you after you have pleaded Colledge Pray my Lord let me have my Papers again that were taken from me Cl. of Cr. You must plead to the Court Guilty or Not Guilty Colledge Shall I not have my Papers after I have pleaded L. Ch. Just We will not capitulate with you Move what you will then but till you have pleaded we can enter into no other business Colledge I know not but I might plead some other thing to the Indictment Mr. Just Jones Propose what you will if it be a matter in Law fit to be argued you shall have Councel assigned you Colledge Pray my Lord let me have my Papers again If it were not my right to have them or to have Councel I would not ask it but if it be I would not lose what is my right L. Ch. Just You must plead first I know not but he may be criminal that brought you those Papers for we allow no Sollicitors in Cases of
of them in the Tower and being brought back to me they were taken from me to day let me have but one of them the Paper of Instructions in point of Law that I may know what is my right I would not throw away my Life if I have any thing that is my right that can preserve it L. C. J. You are to give a plain Answer whether you are Guilty or Not Guilty now for that you have no use of Papers For you can best tell whether you be guilty or not If you can propose any matter of Law that you can have to plead do it Colledge If I have any Plea that I may Plead besides Not Guilty I desire I may have my Papers to consider of it and that I may have Counsel assigned me L. C. J. If you have any such Plea tell us the Matter and the Substance of it Colledge I do not know what really are matters of Law if I had those Instructions that are in my Papers I could give you a direct Answer presently L. C. J. You ought not to have any advice to decline your Tryal When you propose matter of Law your self you may have advice upon it But you ought not to have advice to decline your Tryal before-hand Cl. of Cr. Are you Guilty or Not Guilty Colledge Mr. Attorney pray let me have a Copy of the Indictment Mr. Att. Gen. Apply your self to the Court for it we must receive our Directions from thence L. C. J. You have had the Opinion of the Court you can't have it Mr. Just Levinz You have been told nothing can be received from you but a Plea of Guilty or not Guilty and the Court have given you their Opinion and that you cannot have a Copy of the Indictment nor Counsel assigned you till you offer something for them to be assigned upon L. C. J. And that was it which was done in the King's Bench in the Case of Fitz Harris which I suppose you meant when you spake of the Judges Opinions Mr. Just Jones Nothing was done there till he himself assigned the matter in Law that he would Plead and then Counsel was assigned him Mr. Serj. Jeff. Mr. Colledge was in the Court at that time and can tell what was done L. C. J. If you desire the Indictment read over again Distinctly that you may have Mr. Att. Gen. Ay with all my heart Colledge Pray let me hear it again my Lord if you please L. C. J. Read it over again to him and read it Distinctly Cl. of Cr. Thou art indicted by the name of Stephen Colledge late of Oxon in the County of Oxon Carpenter as a false Traytor Colledge I have observed one thing already my Lord I pray I may have Pen and Ink. L. C. J. Ay give him Pen and Ink let him make what Observations he can Then the Clerk read the Indictment through Cl. of Cr Art thou Guilty of this high Treason or not Guilty Colledge This Indictment If I understand it says there was a Plot and Conspiracy by me and others now I know when my Lord Stafford was tryed they did proceed to prove first that there was such a Plot and then that my Lord was Guilty of it first that there was such a Conspiracy by the Papists is it not requisite they should first prove such a Plot and Conspiracy there was before they go to prove me Guilty of it Mr. Just Jones What before you have pleaded L. C. J. When you have pleaded the next thing is to try you and to give the Evidence but what way the Kings Councel will take to mannage your Tryal that we can't tell Mr. Just Jones But they are not to be directed by you Mr. Colledge Colledge It was so done I say in my Stafford's Case L. C. J. He pleaded first however you have not yet pleaded Cl. of Cr. Are you Guilty or not Guilty L. C. J. Do not trifle any longer 't is a Plain matter and requires a very short and Plain Answer Colledge Your Lordships are my Counsel as well as my Judges and I do desire if I have any right to plead any other matter you will be pleased to declare it to me for I am ignorant in the Law Mr. Just Jones We have declared our Opinion already that you have no right to have any Solicitor or Counsel till matter of Law do aâ—ise Colledge Is it your Lordships Opinion that I have no Plea in Law Mr. Just Jones Have you no Plea in Law L. C. J. He would have our Judgment whether there be any or no. Mr. Just Jones You your self know best we know nothing you have to Plead Colledge I cannot unless I have Counsel and my Papers L. C. J. There does nothing appear to us Colledge I know nothing of the Law L. C. J. Then Plead Not Guilty that is a ready Plea Mr. Just Jones You have heard our Opinion over and over again You have as much Counsel as is allowed in these Cases for every man is best Judge of his own Case what to Plead whether Guilty or Not Guilty you have had as fair Play as ever any man had Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Colledge has said he knows of no Plea in Law he has and therefore there is none for de non Apparentibus non Existentibus the Reason is the same L. C. J. In matter of Fact there is no Plea but Not Guilty Colledge The Court are Judges in matter of Law and they are my Counsel Mr. Just Jones And the Court have all of them declared they know of nothing in Law that you have to Plead Colledge Is not Counsel to be allowed to one under my Circumstances L. C. J. If you have any thing for Counsel to be assigned upon you shall have them Colledge If I am Ignorant of that and cannot Propose it shall I not have the Assistance of Counsel Mr. Just Jones No we have told you the Law Plainly and that which is frequent in Practise in like Cases and you must be contented with the same Measure Colledge My Lord I am Ignorant of the Law L. C. J. Then rely upon the fact and plead Not Guilty Colledge But if I have a right to any point in Law let me have it Mr. Just Jones You have a right if you will propose any matter of Law but we cannot propose it for you Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Colledge no man ought to propose your Plea for you Ignorantia juris non excusat Colledge Shall my Ignorance destroy me Mr. Attorney Mr. Sol. Gen. You have heard the Opinion of the Court you have a right to propose any other Plea that you can your self but you have no right to ask Counsel before you have pleaded Mr. Serj. Jefferies If Mr. Colledge have such a thing as a Solicitor I shall crave leave to put that Solicitor in mind of the Case of one that was indicted of High Treason for Soliciting for one that was accused of High-Treason Mr. Att. Gen.
We shall talk of that by and by L. C. J. The same methods are used in your Case as are in all Cases of the like nature as far as my knowledge reacheth Colledge If I have a right to the Law I must not lose it for my own Ignorance of the Law but if you deny me both my Counsel and my Papers you take away the means of my coming to that right and make me uncapable of making my defence L. C. J. You have been told you must plead before you do any thing Colledge This is the Person pointing to a Person by him that had the Papers Be pleased to command him that I may have them again He said he had Order to take them from me and bring them to your Lordship L. C. J. I know of no use you could have of any Papers to Plead Guilty or not Guilty Mr. Sol. Gen. If there be in those Papers Advice in matters of Law that you have been told you ought not to have till the Court has Assigned you Counsel to give you Advice Colledge Then if there be a Right in Law and a Priviledg which I ought to have I must lose it by my being Ignorant of it and have no one to Advise me about it neither L. C. J. You may propose it if you have any if not you must Plead to the Indictment Mr. Serj. Jefferies My Lord it has not been usual for us that are of the Kings Counsel to enter into Dialogues with Prisoners at the Bar. The first thing that is to be done in such Cases is for the Prisoner to Plead Guilty or Not Guilty or to offer something to the Court that may be a matter in Law fit to be debated and this we pray may be done in this Case and that the Prisoner may Plead presently or else we desire your Judgment Colledge Pray let me have my Papers again my Lord. L. C. J. You go in a Circle and run round from one thing to another and will receive no Answer We have told you our Opinion and we must tell you that tho you hold long Discourses yet you will be Judged lost and mute if you Plead not a Legal Plea Therefore you must Plead Guilty or Not Guilty or offer something that may be a Plea in Law and then you shall have the Assistance of Counsel but you must have none till then Colledge But shall I not have my Papers my Lord L. C. J. We know nothing of them Colledge Pray my Lord order the man to give them to me that took them from me L. C. J. We will order no such thing He may be a Criminal perhaps that did give them you at first but when you have pleaded we will hear any Motion you will make about them Colledge It may be I ought to plead that the words were spoke in another place then the place lay'd in the Indictment L. C. J. You will not need to plead any such thing for if there be nothing proved of Treason that you said or did in Oxford-shire you must be found Not Guilty Colledge Here is another thing my Lord I am indicted by the name of Colledge Carpenter L. C. J. What then Colledge I am not a Carpenter but a Joyner Is that any Bar to it L. C. J. The addition signifies nothing I do not know any difference betwixt a Carpenter and a Joyner in Law Mr. Just Jones They might have indicted you by the name of Labourer and it had been good Colledge Pray my Lord either give me my Papers or assign me Counsel or else I may throw away my Life for I am wholly Ignorant of the Law L. C. J. When you have pleaded we will hear any Motion you will make and do that whch is just upon it but I see no use you can have of Papers to plead Guilty or Not Guilty which is the only Question is asked you Cl. of Cr. Are you Guilty or Not Guilty Colledge Will you promise me my Lord there shall no Advantage be taken against me if I do Plead so L. C. J. We will make no Bargains with you Plead as you ought by Law to do Colledge If matters of Law arise shall I have Counsel to speak to them Mr. Just Jones Yes you shall you need not doubt it Propose any matter now fit to be argued and you shall have Counsel to it Colledge I am not capable of doing it I know not when I have any right Mr. Just Jones The Court is of Counsel to you Colledge If you are my Counsel then have I any Plea in Law to make Mr. Just Jones You have heard the Indictment Read what say you For you must propose the matter L. C. J. We know of none but Guilty or Not Guilty if you can tell of any do Colledge I pray I may have my Papers again if there be no other Plea for me pray let me have my Papers again L. C. J. You have heard the Opinion of the Court you must Plead Mr. Att. Gen. Certainly Mr. Colledge you can't be Guilty of these things you need not to scruple it to plead Not Guilty sure Colledge My Lord having been kept a Prisoner as I have been without Pen Ink or Paper no Conversation with my Friends no Knowledg of the Fact and being Ignorant of the Law not knowing where I have a right nor when I have a right if you do force me upon this Plea and it cost my me Life at your Doors lye it Mr. Just Jones You will lose your Life if you do not Plead if you plead Not Guilty and are not proved Guilty you will save your Life by this Plea Colledge I am willing to plead what the Law requires of me to Plead and if I have a right in Law I would not lose it Cl. of Cr. Are you Guilty or Not Guilty Colledge Why then as they have lay'd it in that Indictment in manner and form as 't is there lay'd I am Not Guilty Cl. of Cr. Culprit by whom wilt thou be tryed Colledge By God and my Country Cl. of Cr. God send thee a good deliverance Mr. Just Jones Not Guilty is his Plea L. C. J. Now he has pleaded Mr. Attorney He speaks of some Papers if there be any Memorandums or any thing that must assist him that is necessary for his defence in his Tryal in those Papers it will be hard to deny him them Mr. Att. Gen. If your Lordships please to give me leave I will give you an account of them The messenger just now did deliver these Papers to be delivered to the Court. Colledge Pray speak out Mr. Attorney and let me hear Mr. Att. Gen. When he came to Prison he had none but Mr. Aaron Smith the Messenger informed me did deliver them to him L. C. J. Whose hand-writing are the Papers in Colledge He received them from me in the Tower Mr. Just Jones You received them from him first Colledge No Mr. Att. Gen. What were the Papers
to several People to buy Arms and Ammunition And I asked him to what purpose and he said it was to bring the King to submission to his People adding thereto That he wondred Old Rowley did not consider how easily his Fathers Head came to the Block which he doubted not would be the end of Rowley at the last After this Discourse the Alderman came in we dined and every one went his own way about his own Business Mr. Colledge then told me if I would go with him to his own House I should see how he was prepared with Arms and Provision Soon after I met with him and he desired me to go along and dine with him and I did so and there he did shew me his Pistols his Blunderbuss his great Sword and he shewed me his Armour Back and Breast and he shewed me his Head-piece which if I am not mistaken was covered over with Chamlet it was a very fine thing and said he These are the things which will destroy the pittiful Guards of Rowley that are kept up contrary to Law and Justice to set up Arbitrary Power and Popery Colledge What did I say Sir about my Armour Mr. Smith Thus you said It was to destroy Rowley's Guards those were your words that were kept up contrary to Law and Justice to set up Arbitrary Power and Popery After I had dined with him I parted with him A little before the Parliament was to meet at Oxford I met him again and we were discoursing of several things what preparations the City were making how they were provided with Powder and Bullets and for his part he would go down to Oxford for he expected a little sport there upon the Divisions that were like to be between the King and Parliament Then said I to him Why what is the matter there Why said he we expect that the King will seize upon some of the Members and we are as ready as he And says he for my part I will be there and be one that shall seize Him if he secure any of the Members and I believe he did go down says he you know how the City is provided I told him No not so well as he but he told me all was very well After he came up again I met him another time and he told me He went down in expectation of some sport but Old Rowley was afraid like his Grand-father Jamy and so ran away like to beshit himself Mr. Serj. Jefferies Did he say If he had not ran away he would have seized him Mr. Smith He said nothing of that but before he said He would be one of them should seize him if he seized any of the Members After this he told me that Fitz Gerald and he had had a quarrel at the Parliament-Door of the House of Lords at Oxford that Fitz-Gerald had called him Rogue and said he Fitz-Gerald made my Nose bleed but before long I hope to see a great deal more Blood shed for the Cause After this again when there was a discourse of disarming the City that my Lord Feversham was to come to do it he told me he was well provided and if Feversham or any man nay Rowley himself should attempt any such thing he would be the death of him before any man should seize upon his Arms. Mr. Serj. Jeff. Did he discourse any thing to you about Arms to provide your self Mr. Smith Yes he did I had an Armour from him Mr. Serj. Jefferies What did he say to you about it Mr. Smith He did desire me to get me Arms for I did not know how soon I might make use of them I had an Armour from him upon trial he said it cost him 30 or 40 s. I had it upon trial but it was too big for me so I gave it him back and bought a new one Mr. Attor Gen. Did he tell you to what purpose you should Arm your self Mr. Smith No he did not name any purpose but he told me I did not know how soon I might make use of it Mr. Attor Gen. What did he say to you about any one's seizing the King Mr. Smith He told me the Parliament were agreed to secure the King and that in order to it all Parliament-men came very well Armed and accompanied with Arms and Men and he told me of a great Man that had notice from all the Gentlemen of England how well they came armed Mr. Jones What did he say of himself Mr. Smith He would be one that should secure the King if he seized any of the Members Mr. Jones When he had been there what did he say Mr. Smith If they had had any work he was ready provided for them Mr. Attor Gen. But pray tell us again what he said of the King 's running away Mr. Smith He said Rowley was afraid like his Grand-father Jamy and ran away ready to beshit himself L. Ch. J. If you have done with him Mr. Attorney let the Prisoner ask him what Questions he will Colledge Mr. Smith Where was this Discourse I had with you Mr. Smith Which do you mean the former part or the latter Colledge The first discourse you talk of what I told you going to Mr. Wilcox's to dinner and when it was Mr. Smith You know best when it was I can't exactly remember the time but you know 't is true Colledge Where was it Mr. Smith As we went along thither we had the first part of it and when we came thither you and I talked till Alderman Wilcox came in and you and I were alone together and several Persons that were there were drawn into Cabals two by two Colledge Where Mr. Smith In the Room where we dined and you know there was a little Room by where some were drinking a Glass of Wine Colledge You say by two and two the Company were drawn into Cabals Mr. Smith I tell you most of them were in Cabals two and two together only those 2 Gentlemen that belonged to the Alderman went up down and gave Wine Colledge What Religion are you of Mr. Smith Is it for this Man to ask me my Lord such a Question L. Ch. J. Yes answer him Mr. Smith I am a Protestant Colledge You were a Priest Mr. Smith Yes what then and I am in Orders now Colledge That was from the Church of Rome Mr. Smith Yes and that is a good Ordination I came in voluntarily to discover the Popish Plot and was no Pentioner nor received any Sallary from the King I have spent several Pounds several scores of Pounds but received no Recompence And I was the Darling at one time all over the City when I did adhere to what they would have me to do Mr. Serj. Jefferies Did not you swear against my Lord Stafford Mr. Attor Gen. Were not you a Witness Mr. Smith at my Lord Stafford's Tryal Mr. Smith In that Case I did give a general account of the Design of the Papists they did not then question my
the sitting of the Parliament at Oxford and you shall see England the most glorious Nation in the World when we have cut oft that beastly fellow Rowley and speaking of the King he said he came of the Race of Buggerers for his Grandfather King James buggered the old Duke of Buckingham and he called him Captain and sometimes the King and sometimes Rowley Mr. Serj. Jefferies This was pure Protestant discourse upon my word Haynes Then he railed at Judg Pemberton and said he let him try Fitz-Harris if he dare I shall see him go to Tyburn for it I hope a Turn-coat Rogue He was for the Plot whilst he was puisne Judge but now he is Chief Justice he is the greatest Rogue in the World He is like one of the Pentioners in the long Parliament So one day I went along with Mrs. Fitz-Harris and Mr. Ivy and he sent a Man to me and desired me to come to the Hog in Armor thither we came and met him and went to his Lodgings and there we dined Then they made some Persons of Honour believe that I was a Person so and so qualified and was brim full of the Plot and he would put me upon charging the King with the firing of London and the murder of Sir Edmondbury Godfrey and said he such and such Lords shall live and die by you and besides said he you need not fear England shall espouse your Cause But said I the Law is like a Spiders Web that catches the little Flies but the great Flies run through the Net and make their escape so 't is with these Lords they put you and me on the danger of acting and when they get off by interest a Jury of 12 Men will hang us by the Neck and so I should perish whilst others triumphed and only be a Martyr for the Phanaticks So in discourse we were talking of the Libel of Fitz-Harris The Devil take me said he every individual word is as true as God is in Heaven and said he if you do not joyn with Fitz-Harris in his Evidence and charge the King home you are the basest fellow in the World for he makes you slaves and beggars and would make all the World so and 't is a kind of charity to charge him home that we may be rid of such a Tyrant Mr. Serjeant Jefferies Mr. Colledge if you will ask him any Questions you may Colledge Certainly my Lord the thing speaks it he is not to be talked withal Is it probable I should talk to an Irish-man that does not understand Sense Haynes 'T is better to be an honest Irish-man than an English Rogue Mr. Serjeant Jefferies He does it but to put you into a heat don't be passionate with him Haynes No I am not I thank God he hath not put me into an heat Colledge Where was this discourse about superseding your Warrant Haynes At London Colledge When Haynes It was before the Parliament fate at Oxon. Colledge How long Haynes I can't tell positively to an hour or a day Colledge What Moneth as near as you can Haynes It was in the Moneth of March. Colledge Had you ever seen me before Haynes Can you deny that Colledge I ask you whether you have or no Haynes Yes I have seen you in the Coffee-Houses bawling against the Government Lord Chief Just Were you an intimate Acquaintance of his before March last Haynes No intimate Acquaintance Colledge Then this is the first time you discoursed with me Haynes Oh no my Lord. One and I fell out at the Queens-Head Tavern at Temple Barr and he sat me upon the business and John Macnamarra and others and truly I did the business for him For we fell out and did box and our Swords were taken from us and I went to John Macnamarra and told him Yonder is such a man at such a place now you may seize upon him Colledge What man was that Haynes One Richard Ponre Colledge He belonged to my Lord Tyrone I think there were Warrants to take him Do you say I set you upon that Haynes Yes you were with me the Night before and Capt. Browne and they gave us a Signal a Blew Ribband to distinguish that we were Protestants from the Bishops men L. Ch. Just. When were you to make Use of it Haynes When the King was seized Mr. Serjeant Jefferies Well go on have you any more Haynes But my Lord further after he came from Oxon. I met him and said I Where are now all your Cracks and Brags now you see the King hath made a Fool of you now you know not what you would have done Sayes he What would you have us do We have not done with him yet for said he no Servant no man living did know whether he would Dissolve the Parliament that day I was that very nick of time at the Lobby of the Lords House and there was a man came in with a Gown under his Arm and every one looked upon him to be a Taylor and no body did suspect no not his intimatest Friends except it were Fitz Girald that he would Dissolve the Parliament that day but presently he puts on his Robes and sends away for the House of Commons and when he had Dissolved them before ever the House could get down he took Coach and went away otherwise the Parliament had been too hard for him for there was never a Parliament-Man but had divers armed men to wait on him and I had my Blunderbuss and my man to wait upon me But well said he there is a God above will rule all Mr. Att. Gen. Call Mr. Turbervile Colledge Hold Sir I desire to ask him some Questions You say the first time that I saw you you had this discourse with me Haynes Do not use Tautologies 'T is not the first time I have been Examined I know how to speak as well as you Colledge Answer my Question Sir Haynes You know it was after I had made Affidavit before the Recorder of London a Copy of which was carried to that Noble-man And you came from him and returned me his Thanks and told me it was the best Service I could do him I would not trouble the Court with Circumstantial things and you told me I should be gratified not only in my own Property but a Reward for me and my heirs for ever Mr. Att. Gen. For what Haynes I made Affidavit before the Recorder of London Colledge About what Haynes Concerning one Fitz Girald Mr. Att. Gen. Is it to this matter Haynes No nothing at all Lord Chief Just. Let him ask any Questions what he will Colledge I ask when it was the first time you were acquainted with me so much as to know me well Haynes As to the first time of intimacy here is Macnamarra will take his Corporal Oath that I was as well acquainted with him as any one in the World Colledge Pray answer me Sir When was the first time I talked to you Haynes The first intimate
him in my life any more then seeing him in a publick Coffee-house But there was a Picture looking on by 7 or 8 or 10 People I believe more or less and I coming and crowding in my head amongst the rest looked upon this Picture After the Crowd was over Mr. Colledge takes a Picture out of his Pocket and said he I will give you one of them if you will So he gives me a Picture which Picture if I could see I could tell what it was it was written Mac a Top and there were several Figures in it Then the Picture was shewed him This is one of the same that I had of him and I had not had it long in my Custody but meeting with Justice Warcupp I shewed it him who bid me give it him and so I did The next thing that I did see Mr. Colledge do was in the Coffee-house not the same day but another time I saw him bring in a parcel of blew Ribband which was wrought and these words eight times wrought in it twice wrought in every Quarter of a Yard No Popery No Slavery I saw him sell to a Member of Parliament as I took him to be a yard of that Ribband for 2 s. and truly I was thinking he would ask me to buy some too and I saw that Gentleman I took him to be a Parliament man take this Ribband and tye it upon his Sword As to the other thing I have to say of Mr. Colledge That very day the Parliament was Dissolved he had been in a Quarrel as he told me with Mr. Fitz Girald and I was standing in the Schoole-house Yard and he comes directly to me without my speaking to him or any thing but he comes and tells me Mr. Fitz Girald had spit in his face and said he I spit in his face again so we went to Loggerheads together I think that was the word or fifty Cuffs So said I Mr. Colledge your Nose bleeds he takes his handkerchief out of his Pocket and wipes his Nose and said I have lost the first blood in the Cause but it will not be long before more be lost L. C. Just Where was this Sir William Jennings In the Schoole-house Yard at Oxon. I never discoursed with him afterwards till I met him at London in Fleet-Street one Sunday in the Afternoon and I remember Captain Crescett was along with me And when he came up to me How now said I honest Joyner Sayes he You call me honest Joyner some call me Rogue and Rascal and I have been beating some of them So that I believe they will be aware of it So I told Captain Crescett I never met this man but he was always in a Quarrel Colledge Was it on a Sunday that I told you I had been beating of some body Sir William Jennings You told me so Captain Crescett was by Colledge I do remember I met you but I did not tell you I had been then beating any one But pray Sir William when I met you after the Parliament was Dissolved and Fitz Girald and I had quarrel'd did I say That I had lost the first blood in the Cause but it would not be long e're more were lost Sir William you are a Gentleman as for the other men they don't care what they say nor do I so much regard them but you value your Word and Honour These were my words and pray will you recollect your self before you be positive in the thing whether I did not say I have lost the first blood for the Parliament for it was upon my vindicating of the Commons and Doctor Oates whom Fitz Girald had abused and upon that the Quarrel began so I said when you met me and told me my Nose bled I have lost the first blood for the Parliament I wish it may be the last Sir William Jennings Mr. Colledge If you please I will answer you as to that I do assure you t is the first time that ever I came upon this occasion in my days and I have declared it before and do declare it now I would rather have served the King in 3 Ingagements then come in against you or any man upon such an Occasion But I declare to you upon the whole memory of the truth the words were as I spoke them at first and no Parliament named or mentioned And my Lord moreover I will tell you When I did tell this story because Mr. Crescett that is here is able to tell you whether I did not relate the words within half an hour or a little time after Now I never had a prejudice against you in my days nor other Concern but having told Mr. Justice Warcupp this Story I am brought hither to testifie it Colledge Sir William I am very sorry you did not better observe and remember my words then Sir William Jennings I must needs say I could not imagine what the words meant when they were spoken nor do I understand them to this day but soon after they were spoken I related them to Justice Warcupp he being a Justice of Peace Mr. Serj. Holloway Gentlemen we shall rest here and conclude our Evidence for the King at present to hear what the Prisoner says to it only with my Lords leave I shall explain the words to you that are in the Indictment and tell you what is meant by Compassing and Imagining the Death of the King The Seizing the Person of the King is in Law a Compassing and Intending his Death and so it hath been adjudged in several Cases as in 1 Jacobi my Lord Cobham and my Lord Greys Case and several other Cases and so you may fully apprehend what the Charge is and may understand the words in the Indictment That if you are not satisfied with the general words of Compassing the King's Death you may know that the Seizing his Person extends to it Mr. Serj. Jefferies My Lord we have done with our Evidence now let him go on with his L. Chief Justice Now Mr. Colledge you may say what you will for your defence and call your Witnesses that you have to produce Colledge My Lord I have heard this Evidence that is against me and I would desire your Lordship to resolve me some Questions upon it I think the Indictment is for Treasonable Practices for a Conspiracy now I desire your Lordship will be pleased that I may know from you and the Court whether in all this Evidence given in proof against me a Conspiracy is proved or if any thing appears besides what they say I said L. Chief Justice For a Conspiracy in you If the Witnesses speak Truth there is a plain proof and of the degrees of it First of all By your publishing Libels and Pictures to make the King Odious and Contemptible in the Eyes of the People and that you should be the Author of some of those Pictures and they were found in your Custody Colledge I conceive that is not proved L. Chief Justice If the
will prove that these are Suborned men for Macnamarra did tell me presently after the Parliament broke up at Oxon and whispered it to me in the Coffee-house Said he there is a Design laid to make us retract our Evidence and go over to Fitz Girald Said I I suppose they have been at that sport a great while Ah said he they make large offers Said I by whom Said he Colonel Warcupp hath been at me and he tells me Mr. Just Jones Macnamarra is not produced against you as a Witness at all Colledge No but he told me this that there was such a design and said he I will get you and some other honest men and he desired me to be by when he had something more to tell which would do his business for him but the next news I heard of him was he was put into Newgate L. Ch. Just Call your Witnesses Mr. Colledge and prove what you can Coll. Call Mr. Hickman Mr. Attorn Gen. My Lord I desire he may observe the same rule he desired about our Witnesses that he may call but one at a time Coll. Yes yes I will call them one by one L. Ch. Just Are not your Witnesses together send to them Coll. My Lord I don't know I have not seen one since I come This is not the first time my Lord the Papists have designed to take away my Life though it is the first time they went about to take it away by a Law L. Ch. Just I know not of one Papist that is a Witness against you Coll. There is never a man of them except Sir William Jennings but what was a Papist Mr. Attorn Gen. What say you to Mr. Masters Coll. Mr. Masters says nothing material it was only a jocose discourse Mr. Serj. Jeff. It was very pleasant discourse upon my word you were as merry as when you were singing of the Rary Shew Mr. Just Jones What do you make mirth of the blackest Tragedy that ever was That horrid Rebellion and the Murther of the late King Coll. I never justified that Parliament in any such thing that they did contrary to Law Mr. Just Jones He swears it Mr. Attorn Gen. Hickman does not appear call another Coll. Call William Shewin who appeared L. Ch. Just Look you here Friend you are not to be sworn but when you speak in a Court of Justice and in a course of Justice you must speak as in the presence of God and only speak what is true Coll. I would not have any body speak any thing for me but what is truth L. Ch. Just Now ask him what you will Coll. I don't know the Gentleman But pray Sir will you tell what you know of these Witnesses Mr. Shewin Name any of them that I know pray Sir and I 'll tell you Coll. Do you know Bryan Haynes Mr. Shewin I know there is such a man but I have nothing to say to him Coll. Do you know Turbervile Mr. Shewin Yes Coll. Pray tell what you know of him Mr. Shewin My Lord I was in Turbervile's Company on Thursday night last at the Golden Posts at Charing-cross and there I heard him say that if I were at Oxford I should hear strange things against Colledge and he would lay ten to one that Mr. Bethel and Mr. Wilmore should be hanged at Christmas and he would lead him by the Gold Chain along Fleetstreet and down with his Breeches in the middle of the Coffee-house with a Band about his Neck and a Cloak Mr. Serj. Jeff. Did he say all these things against Mr. Sheriff Bethel I assure you he is a bold man Coll. What do you know of Mr. Smith Mr. Shewin I know him by sight but I have nothing in particular to say concerning him I have something to say to Macnamarra Sir if he were here Coll. Do you know any thing of this Conspiracy in general Mr. Jones What of your Conspiracy Mr. Shewin I know that they did lay who should be hang'd at Candlemas who at Christmass and who at several other times L. Ch. Just What did you hear Turbervile say Mr. Shewin Those words I spake before about Sheriff Bethel and about the Amsterdam Coffee-house Coll. Did they say what time I should be hang'd for the discourse ' rose about me Mr. Shewin One told me that there was one that did design to be returned upon this Jury that was resolved to hang him right or wrong Mr High Sher. My Lord I did hear there was such a one and I left him out of the Jury L. Ch. Just For Mr. Sheriffs honour we must take notice of what he hath said He says he heard of a man that spoke something of that nature and therefore he left him out of the Jury Coll. Now 't is possible these Witnesses were at the same sport Mr. Shewin Was Mr. Peacock Mrs. Fits-harris Maids Father or she here either of them Witnesses against you Mr. Serj. Jeff. No they were not Sir Coll. They did swear against me at the finding of the Bill Mr. Serj. Jeff. We have only called these Witnesses if you can say any thing against them do Coll. Call Henry Hickman who appeared Mr. Serj. Holl. Where do you live Sir Mr. Hickm At Holborn-bridge Mr. Attorn Gen. What Trade are you Mr. Hickm A Cabinet-maker L. Ch. Just What do you ask him Coll. Do you know Haynes Hickm Yes very well because he used to come to my house to a Popish Widow that was a Lodger in my house where I live now and this person was a Prisoner at Haynes's when he was a Prisoner in the Fleet. I always had a suspicion he was a Priest not that I could accuse him really of any thing but he several times using to come to my house I thought so of him and discoursing with my Land-lady L. Ch. Just Your Tenant you mean Mr. Hickm Yes my Tenant I asked her what this fellow was said she he is a very dangerous Fellow though he is a Papist and I am one my self yet he is a dangerous person and he does not much care what he swears against any one Mr. Just Jones This your Tenant told you what do you know your self Mr. Hickm Another time he came to speak with my Tenant Mrs. Scot who is now gone into Ireland when he came to the house he asked me is Mrs. Scot within Yes said I Mr. Haynes she is above and up he goes and there they locked the door and plucked out the key so I slipt off my Shoes for I thought there might be more danger from such people than I could discover any other way So I went up stairs and stood at the door and hearkned hearing my Land-lady talk something to him he wraps out a great Oath God dam me said he I care not what I swear nor who I swear against for 't is my Trade to get money by swearing Whereupon my Lord I came down as fast as I could and a little after I saw him go out and
he was to have been a Witness against Sir Miles Stapleton and he pretended that he was Suborned by Sir Miles or some of his friends Colledge What are you Sir Mr. Bolron what is Mr. Shirland Mr. Bolron He is a man that lives by his Shifts He hath been whip'd in Bridewel Colledge Do you know him Sir What is he Mr. Bolron Even an idle man Shirland You once when you saw me drew your Sword on me because I would not do as you would have me Mr. Bolron I profess my Lord 't is not so Att. Gen. Here is Mr. Smith hear what he says against Mr. Bolron Mr. Smith As we were coming up along he was speaking to me of Colledge and told me he had as much to say against him as any body and if I would speak for him he would evidence against Sir John Brookes for a discourse at Ferry-bridge Mr. Bolron I never did hear any such thing Mr. Smith No man in your own Country will believe you Colledge They believed you no more it seems neither L. C. J. Do you call any more Witnesses Gentlemen Mr. Serj. Jefferies No I think we need not L. C. J. Look you Mr. Colledge as I understand it the Kings Counsel will produce no more Witnesses You may make what Observations you will upon the Evidence to the Court and then must them make what Observations they will to the Court and then we will give the Charge to the Jury Colledge My Lord I have onely Innocence to plead I have no Flourishes to set off my defence I cannot take the Jury nor the Court with an Oratory I am unhappy in those things But my Lord I do declare as to my own particular in the presence of God Almighty That as to whatsoever is sworn against me as to the seizing his Majesty providing Arms or having any designe either at Oxford or London or any other place in the world to seize upon the person of the King or to rebel against the Government established I vow to God Almighty I never had such a thought in me 't is a truth my Lord. My Lord they have sworn desperately against me and it hath appeared I think by very credible persons that they have contradicted one another It hath been proved that this was a designe that they were tampered withal that they complained they were in poverty that they wanted maintenance and they did confess they were tempted to come over to swear against Protestants and now the Lord knows they have closed with it and they begin with me I hope the Jury have taken notice that I have contradicted them sufficiently in what they have sworn and that it is not possible if I had a grain of sence for me to discover my self to be such an one to Haynes that was an Irish-man and should speak all the Treason that he hath galloped through at first sight that as soon as ever I saw him that I should speak so to him I hope you will consider whether it consists with common Reason when there could be no probability of making any use of him in the world My Lord all my Witnesses that I have brought your Lordship can and I hope will sum them up better than I can for I declare it I have been so concern'd that I have not been able to write half of it down But I think there is never a man that hath sworn against me but hath been sufficiently confuted by persons of integrity and honesty men of Principles and men of Religion they are such my Lord that make Conscience of what they say they are persons altogether unknown to me most of them as to what they had to say it was what they offered voluntarily and I am certain they have had nothing but their bare Charges if they had that for their pains in coming hither and my Lord there is no probability that they should come and attest any thing that is false for me who am a stranger for nothing No man is a Knave for nothing as I believe these men are not My Lord I do declare it I was bred a Protestant and have lived so I am so to this very day I have been a lover of the Church of England and of all the fundamental points of Doctrine believed in it I own the same God the same Saviour the same Gospel and the same Faith I never had a prejudice against any man in the Church in my life but such as have made it their business to promote the interest of the Papists and such I must beg leave to say there are amongst them for there is no Society in the world without some bad men and these do promote the interest of the Papists by dividing the Protestants and allowing none to be true Protestants but those that are within the Church of England established by Law which is a Notion so wide I could never close with that I never had a prejudice against any man but a Knave in my life I have heard I confess some of the Dissenters and I have found very honest just pious godly men among them men free from Oaths and all Debauchery men that make a Conscience of what they say not like some persons that say they are of the Church of England that carry themselves in their lives and actions so as that no credit can be gained to the Church by them My Lord I have been an hearty man against the Papists I have been an hearty man as any person of my condition for Parliaments which I look upon to be my Birth-right and under God Almighty the Bulwark of our Liberty and I am sorry if any man should be an instrument to create a misunderstanding betwixt the King and the Parliament for I always thought I served my Country when I served the Parliament and I served my King when I served my Country I never made any difference between them because I thought them both one I had the honour to be entrusted by them before and upon that account I came voluntarily down hither I rid my own Horse I spent my own Money and eat my own Bread I was not beholding to any man for the value of six pence all the while I was here My Lord I have ever since the Plot hath been discovered endeavoured with all my heart and all my power to detect and come at the very bottom of it I have spared for no time nor pains what lay fairly in my way in every thing to encourage those that discovered the Villanies of the Popish Plot against the life of the King and for the subversion of the Religion and Government established by Law Now certainly it is not strange to the world for I think all Christendom is aware how plain the Popish Plot hath been proved These men that swear against me were they that used to follow me sometimes they would say It was they that had come to save our lives and yet we let them want Bread That
Conspiracy Mr. Just Jones Because you told him at London first that they were such persons Colledge I never saw Lewes in may days till I saw him that morning I came down from Oxon and Brown I was not acquainted with a fortnight before This is a truth but however they have sworn a Plot upon me at Oxon and then come and prove I declared these were the men and spoke such and such words at London I desire your Lordships Judgment in this matter of Law whether what be done at London can be sufficient matter of proof in Law to maintain an Indictment against me at Oxon And if not they do not prove legally that I have spoken such words Besides I conceive 't is not a good proof because there is but one Witness L. Ch. Justice Yes look you there are two Witnesses Dugdale and Turbervile as to what you said at Oxon and two Witnesses as to what you said at London Haynes and Smith who testifie what you said you would do at Oxon. Now in case you came to Oxon with any such intention that coming to Oxford is an overt-Act and the witnesses that speak what you said in London is Evidence to maintain the Indictment here and to prove what your intention was Colledge Does that become an overt-Act if I go to Oxon upon an honest occasion any other occasion tho' I had said those words before L. Ch. Justice If you came with that intent to joyn with others and with a real purpose to seize the King that is the Overt-Act and the words before prove the intention Mr. Just Jones He declared it himself by his words Colledge Smith says that about a week after Wilcox's dinner I disoursed with him at the Ditch side that comes not within the compass of the Statutes Then there is twice of the 3 times he speaks of the last day I do not remember when it was L. Ch. Justice All was in London that Smith speaks of you Colledge How comes that to be proof here then nothing he says is to go for any thing Mr. Just Jones Nothing will serve your turn we have declared our Opinions once already that if the Witnesses swear true here are two witnesses nay if one were of what was done at London and the other of what was done at Oxon if they be to the same Treason they are two Witnesses in Law Colledge My Lord I observe one thing upon Turbervile's Evidence he swears there was a discourse in the Room when Brown was upon the Bed but afterwards if your Lordship minds it he says I discoursed with him as he and I lay upon the Bed Before he said when Brown lay upon the Bed and in the Room and afterwards when we lay upon the Bed Mr. Just Jones Both the one and the other Colledge But he said said first one way and then the other Mr. Just Jones Whilst Brown lay upon the Bed and when he was gone whilst you both lay upon the Bed L. Ch. Justice We will do you no wrong therefore if you will Turbervile shall stand up and clear it Colledge My Lord I believe those that have taken the passages can prove he contradicted himself in that L. Ch. Just He said both But the Jury have taken notes of the Evidence and will take notice of it Colledge As to Mr. Masters the Evidence he gives was he says that he and I should discourse of the Parliament in 40. Mr. Just Jones And the justifiableness of the late King's death that they had done nothing but what they had just cause to do Colledge He swears that I did say to him that the late Parliament did not cut off the Kings head Mr. Just Jones And you said the last Parliament that sate at Westminster was of the same opinion with that in 40. Colledge I dare appeal to Esq Charlton in whose shop the discourse was I did not know that Mr. Masters was to be an Evidence against me and truly they have taken that course with me by which any man may be destroyed with half this Evidence were they of good Credit let his Innocence be what it will I have been used so barbarously in the Tower kept from all Conversation and so in an utter ignorance of what was sworn against me for else I could easily have disproved Mr. Masters if I had been in London and had liberty to provide for my defence but they have taken a course to prevent that and brought me hither because 't is impossible I should here defend my self L. Ch. Just You have not offered at any Witness to Impeach Mr. Masters Credit Colledge Mr. Masters discourse he speaks of was in Mr. Charlton's shop I durst have appealed to him about it for I know if he were here he would do me right Mr. Masters did say the Parliament cut off the late Kings Head We held a dispute upon that which I was not willing to enter into I said they did not and we did then dispute whether they began the War against his Majesty I said they did not that I knew of neither were they the persons but the Papists that began that War and that broke off the Treaty at Vxbridge and that the Papists carryed it on to that sad issue and put it upon the Protestants that they had the odium of it but it was another sort of men that carryed it on I said that I did always understand that Parliament to be an honest Parliament that minded the true Interest of the Nation and much of the same opinion with the Parliament that fate last at Westminster But before I said this I said they were persons altogether innocent of the Kings murder and raising the War against the King I did always understand that so the Parliament in 40 were L. Ch. Just But they were guilty of a Rebellion and are declared so by Act of Parliament since His Majesty came in Colledge My Lord I am unacquainted with the Law I speak only my sense of it And my Lord I did excuse them as to the Murder of the King and the beginning of the War that according to my understanding they were not Guilty of it and from thence I did maintain they were an honest good Parliament and much of opinion with the Parliament that sat last at Westminster which was for the true Interest of the Nation L. Ch. Just And was that the true Interest of the Nation to cut off the King's Head Colledge I did argue that with him some time and I did tell him that it was the Papists that did all the Mischief Mr. Just Jones But he sayes no upon his Oath that when he had said the Parliament begun the Rebellion and the Parliament did cut off the King's Head you said the Parliament did nothing but what they had just Cause for and the Parliament that sat last at Westminster was of the same mind L. Ch. Just Those were his words Colledge Pray let him be called again L. Ch. Just
it upon that Statute L. Ch. Justice I tell you as to that part of the Statute which concerns Misdemeanors there is a particular clause for prosecution by order of King or Council but as to that part of the Statute that concerns Treason it must be prosecuted within six months and the Inditement within three months after Colledge What Statute is this Inditement grounded upon Mr. Just Jones All Statutes that concern Treason L. Ch. Justice Upon the Statute of the 25 of Edw. 3. which declares the Common-Law and the Statute of the 13th of this King which when you have done I will have read to the Jury Colledge Then pray my Lord let me ask you one question Whether the Statute of the 25th of Edw. 3. does not say that there shall be two positive Witnesses to Treason Mr. Just Jones No but there is another that does Colledge I am ignorant of the Law and therefore I ask the question L. Ch. Justice Well I will tell you there must be two Witnesses in the Case but one Witness to one fact at one time and another Witness to another fact at another time will be sufficient Evidence to maintain an Indictment of Treason this was told you in the morning Mr. Just Jones And it was told you withal That it was the resolution of all the Judges in the Case of my Lord Stafford when he was tryed in Parliament Colledge They proved fact in that Case writing of Letters and offering money to kill the King but nothing of fact is proved against me but riding into the Country with Arms that I had three years before L. Ch. Justice We will read the Statute of the 13th wherein words are declared to be Treason Colledge I pray it may be read if you please which was done L. Ch. Justice Look you here To compass or imagine the imprisonment of the King and to express it by malitious and advised speaking when proved by two lawful Witnesses is Treason by this Act. Colledge Now whether you will distinguish that there must be two Witnesses to distinct places or times or whether the Statute intends two Witnesses to every particular fact and words L. Ch. Justice We told you our Opinion before That one Witness to one fact and another to another of the same Treason was sufficient We are upon our Oaths in it and speak not our own Opinions but what hath received publick resolution in Cases of the like consequence Colledge What lies before these Gentlemen of the Jury as done at Oxon 't is but upon a single testimony Mr Just Levinz Nay Mr. Dugdale and Mr. Turbervile both swear the same thing your design to seize the King at Oxon. And it would be the difficultest thing in the world to prove Treason against any man if the Law were not so and a man might commit all sorts of Treason securely for to be sure he would never say the same things before two Witnesses in one time and the King would be no sort safe for there would never be two Witnesses to one and the same thing But that hath been resolved often and often over and over again particularly in my Lord Stafford's Case as you have been told Colledge My Lord you say the King is not safe upon those terms and no private man is safe in the other way Mr. Just Levinz We say that the Law is so and there is good reason for it Mr. Just Jones We must not alter nor depart from the allowed received Law L. Ch. Justice I say the thing hath been considered in other Cases and the Law hath been adjudged and setled It was so resolved in my Lord Stafford's Case when the Judges by the command of the Parliament did deliver their Opinion upon that point moved by him Colledge There is nothing of fact proved against me but a pair of Pistols a Sword and an Horse L. Ch. Justice We have told you the Law and answered your question Colledge But as the Case stands if that be the Law all Society and Conversation must be ruined by it Mr. Just Jones Pray go on when do you think we shall have done else Colledge However I do not insist upon that so much as that the Testimonies and Oaths of these men are altogether invalidated by substantial persons that have here testified against them I do declare upon my Salvation I have nothing else to say I am wholly innocent and the Jury are my Judges and I beseech them as they will answer me at the great day of Judgement where they must appear as sure as I stand at this Bar now that they do me right and go according to their own Consciences for if a man shall be sworn against by such Fellows as these are no man is safe Mr. Serj. Jefferies The worse the better to be trusted by you Colledge I am sure it cannot be thought by men of common Reason that I should speak Treason at that rate that they have sworn and to such men men of their Profession Irish men and Papists Traitors that have declared they have been in all manner of Rogueries Murders Plots and Treasons Therefore my Lord I cannot do any more for my self because I have no Notes and cannot recite what hath been said for me or against me but I do depend upon your Lordship and I hope you will inform the Jury rightly and do me Justice and I do pray the Jury that they will let their Consciences be satisfied as they are English men and as they are Christians to consider how the Case lyes with me whether there has not been more occasion of talking of late and whether a slip of the Tongue may be called a premeditated malicious advised speaking I mean my Discourse with Mr. Masters He talked with me as hot as fire he was so violent and I did discourse him at that rate I have told you and that is truth as I have a Soul to be saved I did excuse the Parliament that as I understood it they had no hand in the beginning of the War or the Murder of the King My Lord As for the rest that have sworn against me so desperately I must say that if the Jury did not as well consider my Evidence as theirs yet they might well consider whether it consists with common sence and reason that I should speak to these men after this rate when I could lay no obligation upon them nor have any confidence in them necessitous persons that could not assist me one Mite men that were beholding to me to borrow Money of me and that eat of my cost that I had always been obliging to and not they to me But I hope I need insist upon this no further the whole Nation is sensible what is doing and what this does signifie They have begun with me in order to the making of a Presbyterian Plot which they would carry on to stifle the noise of the Popish Plot and this is not the 1 st the 2 d. nor
the 10 th time that they have been at this Game how many Shams have they endeavoured to raise Mr. Att. Gen. Who do you mean by they Colledge The Papists Mr. Att. Gen. There is nothing of Popery in the Case they are all Protestants Mr. Just Jones They are all Persons that have lately receiv'd the Sacrament Colledge They were all Papists and I believe are so still for Mr. Dugdale did justifie to me the Church of Rome in several things And when I told him that they were all Knaves and Fools that were of that Religion he told me that many of their Priests were holy good men Mr. Just Jones Have you proved that Colledge I can't prove it it was betwixt him and me my Lord. Mr. Just Jones Then I hope you have done Colledge If I had sworn against him he had stood in my place L. Ch. Just Have you done Mr. Colledge Colledge My Lord I only desire the Jury to take all into their serious Consideration I expect a storm of Thunder from the learned Counsel to fall upon me who have liberty to speak and being learned in the Law understand these things better than I who must defend my self without Counsel I know not whether it be the practice in any Nation but certainly 't is hard measure that I being illiterate and ignorant in the Law must stand here all day they being many and taking all advantages against me and I a single person and not able to use one means or another either of writing or speaking But Gentlemen I do declare and protest as I shall answer it at the day of Judgement that as to what these people have sworn against me either as to words or as to any manner of Treason against the King the Government the Laws established I take God to witness I am as innocent as any person upon Earth And therefore I must beseech you be not frightened nor flattered do according to your Judgements and your Consciences you are to be my Judges both in Law and Fact you are to acquit me or to condemn me and my Bloud will be required at your hands And whatsoever is said to you by others you are my true Judges you must give an account of the Verdict you give and therefore you must see that you do Justice as you will answer it at another Bar where you must all certainly appear and the Lord Almighty direct you that you do me true Justice and I ask no more Mr. Sol. Gen. May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury Here hath been a great deal of time spent and truly I think for no other Reason but to divert you from the matter that is before you and that you might forget the Evidence that hath been given And therefore I will briefly repeat it to you that I may refresh your memories about what hath been sworn Gentlemen the Crime charged upon Mr. Colledge is High Treason in imagining and compassing the death of the King the proof of that hath been by a Conspiracy to seize the King here at Oxon which Conspiracy he declared he was in by shewing Arms prepared for that purpose and by coming down to Oxon with that intent this is the proof of his design to kill the King Colledge Is the Conspiracy proved of that Mr. Solicitor L. Ch. Just Mr. Colledge We have had a great deal of patience with you you have spent a great deal of time you must contain your self now and let them go on Colledge Do not let him do me wrong my Lord. Mr. Sol. Gen. I will do you no wrong Mr. Colledge Colledge Sir there is no Conspiracy proved L. Ch. Just Look you Mr. Colledge you have taken up a great deal of time and we have had much patience because we consider your condition and had rather hear too much than be hard upon you and because the Evidence was long and difficult to repeat now we have heard you you must have patience to hear what the Kings Counsel repeat and observe upon it Mr. Sol. Gen. As I was saying the fact that is charged upon him is a design to kill the King the manifestation of that design is by preparing Arms to that purpose and by coming down to Oxon to seize the King here and that this was his manifest intent to seize the King the proof of it hath been by Witnesses that I think by and by you will have no Objections against These Witnesses were Dugdale Turbervile Smith and Haynes these are the most material Witnesses to the Treason there are two other Witnesses indeed but they are to other circumstantial matters that I will take notice of to you by and by and make my observations upon them in their proper place Mr. Dugdale was the first Witness that was produced and his Evidence is very full he proves that Mr. Colledge declared to him at the Coffee-house here that he was come down with an intent to seize the King that he had an expectation some thing would be done that he was Armed and that he did advise Mr. Dugdale to be Armed too for he was provided for the rooting out of Popery which he explained himself what he meant by it that was the Church of England and the King and all his Adherents He came hither Armed for that purpose Gentlemen and did advise Mr. Dugdale to Arm himself too that he did declare to him the King was a Papist and all his Family were Papists he was as deep in the Plot and as Guilty of the Murder of Sir Edmond-bury Godfrey as any body else This was what he declared to Dugdale here and this he swore to you when he gave his Evidence The next Witness is Mr. Turbervile and he is positive to the matter that is laid in the Indictment and swears to you expresly that he did declare to him at the Chequer-Inn that they came down here in expectation of some sport that something would be done that they did expect the King would begin with them but if they did not they would begin with him and they would secure him till they had brought him to Complyance He shewed him his Arms that he was ready to ingage in that design and advised Turbervile to be ready too And the rather than Turbervile should not be ready he offered to procure him an Horse Colledge Every man had the same Armes that I had and I had had them long before that time Mr. Sol. Gen. But every one had them not with the same intent but Gentlemen because Mr. Colledge interrupts me with an Objection I will take notice of it now by the way He says those Armes he had before and therefore they were not provided for this purpose Gentlemen we do not pretend to prove when this Trayterous intent first began and how long this design hath been hatching but such a design there was and such a design he manifested to be in himself when he made the Declaration to Turbervile and
his not being Privy to any Plot or knowing the particulars is no Contradiction to what he said This is that he hath produced for his Defence and by these things he hath endeavoured to take off the Credit of our Witnesses and he would have you believe that he is a very good Protestant though he does that which no Protestant would do and which is the Papists work he hath produced you Witnesses that he has gone to Church but I do not see he hath produced any Witnesses at all that are now Conversant with him his own Parishoners in London but if he had brought never so many Witnesses of his going to Church and of his Conformableness to the Church yet if he were Guilty of these practices he must give me leave to suspect the Truth of his Profession and I think it a great piece of arrogance for him to take upon him the Title of a Protestant when he hath abused that Title by such unsuitable practices And Gentlemen if such practices as these are which we have fully proved are such as all good men must abhor I cannot but reflect upon the condition of this man whose only hopes is that you should now forget your selves and become as ill as he is But as that cannot be presumed so I shall not need to say any more to you you are men of that consideration that can judge between things and the appearances of them and know very well how to give the due weight to the Evidence we have given to you as well as the Objections made by the Prisoner and so Gentlemen I shall leave it to you Mr. Serjeant Jeffries May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury It hath been a long time that hath been spent in the course of this Evidence whether there has been any Art or Design in protracting the time on purpose to obtrude upon the patience of the Court or that you Gentlemen should forget the force of the Evidence that hath been given against the Prisoner at the Bar when there hath been so much time taken up unnecessarily when there was no occasion as I must needs say there was not for such a tedious Defence I leave It to you to determine But that which was truly intimated by the Court at the beginning of the Tryal must in the end of this Cause be Repeated and indeed go through it all that we of the Kings Councel and what the Prisoner has affirmed that has not been given in proof signifying nothing and is not to be any guide at all to you You are upon your Oaths and by the Oath you have taken you are bound in Conscience to give a Verdict according to the Evidence that has been given to you and that is your guide so that what we opened and have not proved is no more to be believed then what the Prisoner has said for himself in his own Defence and whatsoever he says if he make not good proof of it is no more to be regarded then what we who are for the King have alledged and not made out So then this being in the first place premised I shall take care as near as I can to save the time of the Court and not to Trespass on your Patience Gentlemen unnecessarily in a Case whereupon as great a concern does depend as perhaps ever came to Tryal at any Bar For I say 't is a Case wherein the Life and the Liberty of the King is concerned and that is the great concern of the Nation the Religion of the Nation is concerned I would be understood aright I mean the Protestant Religion established by Law for I know of no other Religion men ought to Sacrifice their Lives and Fortunes for but the Protestant Religion established by Law and when these thing are concerned 't is a Case of great consequence God forbid any person Protestant or other should attempt the Life of the King and the Subversion of our Religion and by Stiling themselves by the Name of Protestants should excuse themselves from any such Crimes For the Evidence that has been given I shall not enumerate the Particulars against the Prisoner at the Bar other then such as have been omitted If I mistake not by Mr. Sollicitor In the first place there are the things that hapened at Oxon for you have had it already sufficiently told you by my Lords the Judges who are upon the Bench and who under Mr. Colledges favour are the Prisoners Judges in point of Law as you are his Judges in point of Fact They have I say already told you what the Law is in Relation to Treasons that in Case the Treason be in two Counties if the Witnesses speak to the self same Treason though to different Facts that will be two Witnesses to prove High-Treason and that there hath been such a Case the the Prisoner at the Bar who he says is a Protestant for his own Souls sake I wish he were a good one must take notice that Gavan the great Priest who was Tryed at Newgate and Convicted by what Evidence By one of them that is a Witness now against the Prisoner at the Bar that is Dugdale his Treason was committed part in London part in the Country of which part Dugdale gave Evidence but being both to the self same purpose by the greater part of the Judges who were in the Commission and present at the Tryal they were reckoned a sufficient Testimony to prove him Guilty of High Treason And I hope we do not live to that Age that any Protestant whatsoever should come to trip up the Heels of the Popish-Plot by saying that any of them who suffered for it did die contrary to Law or without sufficient proof For if Mr. Dugdale was not a person fit to be believed or if the rest of the Judges who Tryed Gavan were out in the Law then that man died wrongfully for he had as much right to have been Tryed according to the Law as any other person whatsoever Therefore Gentlemen as to that matter we must submit it to my Lords the Judges who are to give you an Account what the Law is in all particulars before you but as to the Fact whereof You are Judges that is the great matter we shall apply our selves to and for that it stands thus Here is Dugdale that does give you an Accompt what his Design was in coming to Oxford how he came to be armed as an Index Gentleman of his mind And pray give me leave to put you in mind of one thing You have first a Libel produced and read to you a pretended Letter wherein there are Quaeries that have been taken notice of and which seem to back the Evidence given by Mr. Masters for there is a Vindication in those Queries of the proceedings of that Parliament of 41. which he has confidence enough now at the Barr to justifie too But Gentlemen you were told by the Court and you know it That that
came to London the 27th These are Circumstances Gentlemen that you must weigh and you may bring the North and the South together as soon as their two Testimonies they are so far asunder Besides Gentlemen I hope you take notice of a person that was sworn a person of some quality a Scholar in the University here that says Balron though he denied it did shew him one of these Pictures and did discover they were Mr. Colledges and Balron himself his own Witness tells you that he did acknowledge one of those Pictures was his It appears then how busie he was and concerned himself in what belonged not to his Profession So that upon the whole matter after this long Evidence that hath been given I must wholly appeal to your Lordship and the Jury as to the Law to your Lordship and the Court and as to the Fact to the Jury for I do not desire any sort of Evidence should be strained against a Prisoner at the Bar who is there to be tryed for his Life God forbid if he be Innocent but he should be acquitted but on the other side consider the Murder of that great King of ever blessed memory is before you and remember that base reflection which the Witnesses tell you of upon that horrid Action and as a great Evidence remember that seeming Vindication of it at the Bar which certainly no English man no Protestant according to the Church of England can hear without having his Bloud stirred in him And these things are not only testified by Dugdale and Smith but by Gentlemen of known reputation and quality and he hath a little discover'd himself by that defence he hath made against their Testimony But know Gentlemen that the King is concerned your Religion is concerned that Plot that is so much agreed to by all Pretestants is concerned for if Dugdale Smith and Turbervile be not to be believed you trip up the heels of all the Evidence and discovery of that Plot. Then I will conclude to you Gentlemen and appeal to your Consciences for according to the Oath that has been given to you you are bound in your Consciences to go according to your Evidence and are neither to be inveigled by us beyond our proof nor to be guided by your Commiseration to the Prisoner at the Bar against the proof for as God will call you to an account if you do an injury to him so will the same God call you to account if you do it to your King to your Religion and to your own Souls L. Ch. Justice Gentlemen I shall detain you but a little and shall be as short as I can for your patience has been much exercised already It is a burden and a necessary one that lies upon us all for there is nothing more necessary than that such Tryals as these should be intire and publick intire for the dispatch of them and publick for the satisfaction of the World that it may appear no man receives his Condemnation without Evidence and that no man is acquitted against Evidence Gentlemen there are these two Considerations in all Cases of this nature the one is the force of the Evidence the other is the truth of the Evidence As to the force of the Evidence that is a point in Law that belongs to the Court and wherein the Court is to direct you as to the truth of the Evidence that is a question in Fact arising from the Witnesses and must be left upon them whereof you are the proper Judges As to the force of the Evidence in this Case it must be consider'd what the Charge is it is the compassing the death of the King and conspiring to seize the Person of the King which is the same thing in effect for even by the Common Law or upon the interpretation of the Statute of the 25th of Edw. 3. that mentions compassing the death of the King to be Treason it hath always been resolved That whosoever shall imagine to depose the King or imprison the King are guilty of imagining the death of the King for they are things that depend one upon another and never was any King deposed or imprisoned but with an intention to be put to death they are in consequences the same thing Now Gentlemen in Cases of Treason the Law is so tender of the Life of the King that the very Imagination of the heart is Treason if there be any thought concerning any such thing but then it must be manifested by some Overt-act upon the Statute of the 25th of Edw. 3. but upon the Statute of the 13th of this King made for the preservation of the King's person if it be manifested by malicious and advised speaking 't is sufficient This is as to the Charge and as to the Law concerning that Charge I must tell you there must be two Witnesses in the Case Now then for the force of the Evidence the question will arise there whether this Evidence admitting it to be true is sufficient to maintain the Indictment so that if there be two Witnesses you must find him Guilty Now as to this Gentlemen the Prisoner has before-hand called upon the Court and had their resolution and I hope you will remember what hath been said and I shall have occasion to trouble you the less There have been six Witnesses produced for the King there are two of them Sir William Jennings and Mr. Masters that are some way applicable to the Case though they do not go to the Treason they are only to inferr the probability of the Treason This of Sir William Jennings was upon the occasion of the bleeding of the Prisoners Nose after his quarrel with Fitz-Gerald when he said He had lost the first bloud and it would not be long e're there would be more lost which shews there were some extraordinary thoughts in his heart concerning some divisions quarrels and fighting that he expected should be That which Mr. Masters has said besides what he offered concerning his Principles in justifying the Long Parliament was this that when he called him Colonel Marry mock not said he I may be a Colonel in time that shews some extraordinary thoughts were in his heart Colledge Will not that bear a more favourable interpretation my Lord Must that necessarily follow upon my saying I might be a Colonel in time and that more bloud would be lost if I had expressed it so L. Ch. Justice I say you had some extraordinary thoughts in your heart Colledge I am sure the fittest to explain my own thoughts L. Ch. Justice You would have done well to have explained it which way you expected to be a Colonel Colledge It was not an expectation for a may be may not be my word was mocking is catching I thought he had called me Cozen. L. Ch. Justice Well Gentlemen these are Witnesses I say that go not to the Treason but only relate and reflect somewhat to shew there were thoughts in his heart but no body could
tell what they were or know what he meant by them Colledge Then always they are to be taken in the best sence L. Ch. Justice For the other Witnesses Stephen Dugdale John Smith Bryan Haynes and Edward Turbervile they are all of them taking what they say to be true very full Witnesses The Prisoner hath objected as to two of them because they speak to nothing that was done in Oxfordshire but Turbervile and Dugdale they speak to what was said in Oxfordshire Now for that I must tell you If you believe any one of these Witnesses as to what was said in Oxford and any of them as to what was said in London relating to the same Fact of Treason they will be two good Witnesses to maintain the Indictment though the one is in the one County and the other in another for if a Treason be committed in two Counties it is in the Kings Election where he will Exhibit the Indictment and the Evidence from both Counties is good Evidence that I take for Law and these four Witnesses with that consideration that they are true as I think are full Witnesses to maintain this Indictment Why then the next Head is concerning the truth of this Evidence of which you are to be Judges and you are the proper Judges whether the Witnesses speak true or no therefore you must have your own Consciences to direct you in that case and what I shall say about them shall be only for your Assistance Gentlemen I shall not take upon me to repeat the Evidence to you it has been long and for me to speak out of Memory I had rather you should recur to your own Memories and your own Notes Only I shall say something in general to contract your Consideration of it And as I told you at first you must mind nothing of what the Kings Counsel said for nothing must have Impression upon you but what they proved So you are not to consider any thing of the Facts the Prisoner spake of that are not proved neither For common Justice is concerned in it and no Justice can be done at that rate if the Prisoners own Affirmations or Purgation should be taken No man ever can be accused but he will be ready to say he is innocent and say as flour is hung and popular things as ever he can for himself And therefore these things must not weigh with you further then as what is said argues upon the Proofs you have had And you are to consider upon the Proofs what the Prisoner has produced not what he says on the other side for the Proofs you have heard a great many Witnesses in general produced by him that say he was bred a Protestant and has been an honest Man that they knew no ill by him that will be of little weight in a case of this Consideration for unless he were a Man that had committed Treason to the knowledge of all the World there is no Man but can produce Witnesses that know no ill of him nor any Treason nor Harm in him therefore the Question will lye upon the credit of the Witnesses produced for the King barely and that will be the Consideration you are only to have and you are to weigh them in the Ballance against the Witnesses produced against them Now Gentlemen for these Witnesses I shall not repeat them to you but only this I shall observe in general that Dugdale and Turbervile that are the two most material Witnesses relating to what was spoken in Oxford-shire have the least said against them I do not remember I profess to you I do not but your own notes must guide you that there was any very material thing said against them except what is said against them by Dr. Oates and Dr. Oates does say against Smith that he came out of the Coffee-house and swore damm him he would have Colledges Blood and when he reproved him and said it was not fit for a Minister of the Gospel to use such Expressions he said God damn the Gospel if that be true 't is a great Reflection upon the Credit of Smith He says as to Dugdale that when he was expostulating with him about his Evidence he excused himself that he was in want of money and was pressed to it and being asked did say he was pressed to swear against his Conscience he said yes and much of the same kind he says as to Turbervile that he said he was disserted and would not starve Now all these three Witnesses being called upon their Oaths deny that which Dr. Oates Testifies Now if it were in an indifferent and probable matter to have three Men condemned and set aside by the Testimony of one is not equal unless the Man were of mighty extraordinary Credit and his Testimony of more than ordinary weight But then I must tell you this matter is very probable that after Witnesses had sworn a thing they should voluntarily acknowledg themselves to be forsworn and that without any Provocation they should at several times come to this one Man and declare themselves Rogues and Villaines but if it were probable here are three Mens Oaths against one Mans affirmation this I say as to what concerns Dugdale and Turbervile I do not see any thing material against them besides now if you believe them they are two Witnesses to the full Matter of the Indictment and two Witnesses to what was done in Oxford-shire and that satisfies all the Considerations of Law As to the rest of the Witnesses Bryan Haynes and John Smith you have had many Witnesses produced against them I shall not undertake to repeat the Evidence 't is your place and duty to weigh their Testimony and I shall leave it to your Consideration Mr. Just Jones I shall add nothing to what my Lord hath said nor indeed can Colledge My Lord I wish you would look upon your Notes you would then find there was much more Evidence that you have not repeated against Turbervile and Dugdale besides what you Lordship urged L. Ch. Just If there be I refer it to the Memory of the Jury I can remember no more Colledge I desire nothing but Justice and true Justice L. Ch. Justice I am sure I design nothing else you are a stranger to me I believe I have seen your Face but I never knew you by name till now Look you if the Jury be like to stay they may take something to refresh themselves at the Bar before they go Colledge My Lord I did see when the Bill was brought against my Lord Howard Mr. Attorny General and Mr. Solicitor were an hour and half with the Grand Jury Mr. Serj. Jefferies You must say nothing now my Lord has given the Charge Colledge Let me have Justice done my Lord that 's all I crave that no Body may be with the Jury L. Ch. Justice Look you Mr. Colledge they might be with the Grand Jury but as to the Petty Jury there shall be a Bayliff sworn