Selected quad for the lemma: law_n
Text snippets containing the quad
|
ID |
Title |
Author |
Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) |
STC |
Words |
Pages |
|
A50084
|
The examination and correction of a paper lately printed intituled A relation of the discourse between Mr. Hugh Peters and Lieut. Collonel Iohn Lilborn in the Tower of London, May 25 whereunto is added for the satisfaction of all that desire it and the just vindication of Mr. Peters from the scandall the relator would insinuate against him ... / by Robert Massey.
|
Massey, Robert, 17th cent.
|
1649
(1649)
|
Wing M1039A; ESTC R28814
|
7,435
|
9
|
hither being meerly accidentall You have no designe now no more then you had the last year when you came hither to lye in the Tower whilest the Aldermen were here I professe said Mr. Peters in the presence of God I have not now nor had then any deâ—â—gn but comming with some of the Parliament souldiers that were to quarter in the Tower I liked Coll Whites house so well for the pleasantnes ayre and conveniency thereof in my opinion that I took up my aboad there for a while for my health sake but you speak of designs as if all men were on designes I protest I know no design my self the Parliament or any in the Army have other then to advance the glory of God and the good of his people You know in a Play every one acts his part and so you only act yours and another his I will not trust any of your or their faire words or protestations I know not what designes they have but I am sure they would take away my life if they could Why said Mr. Peters who goes about to take away your life I know no man that seeks your life you may live long enough for me or for any other for ought I know I care not for my life replyed L. Col. Lilborn not this if they should take it away as they dare not but they were as good take it away as keep me here and take away my livelihood by which my self wife and family should subsist Why hath he on allowance from the State said Mr. Peters to the Lieut. of the Tower hath he not Yes said the Lieut. of the Tower the State allows him twenty shillings a week if he would accept of it as the rest doe Why will you not accept of it said Mr. Peters No replyed Lieut. Coll. Lilborne I scorn to undervalue my self so much as to accept of it I had rather make a shift and be without it I am sure the King that they have put to death for a Tyrant allowed more then it to the meanest Prisoner that ever came hither Why what hath been accustomed to be allowed said Mr. Peters The meanest prisoner that ever came hither said he had three pound a week the very Smith that the Bishop of Canterbury sent hither whose head is now on London bridge had so much while he was here Is it possible said Mr. Peters yea but you know L. Coll. Lilborne that the State now hath many more uses and occasions for money then the King had I deny that said L. Coll. Lilborne how can that be they have all the Kings Revenues and many other wayes that bring in money that he had not and therefore may as well allow it as he could No but indeed the State is very bare of money notwithstanding in that these troubles have occasioned the experce of much more then was needfull in a time of peace No said Lieut. Coll. Lilborne that cannot be that such vast summes of money as they have had and have should be thus expended what with a mischief should become of it do we not see that Ireton and Cromwell and your great Masters the Parliament men as you call them give away to one another thousand of it at a clap that is the way the Common-wealths money goes Indeed replyed Mr. Peters they have given money among them heretofore but I pray you what hath been given of late and because you speak of Ireton what hath he got that you mention him I am sure I heard a neer friend of his averre that to his knowledge that service for the State had impaired and hindred him in his own estate at least 3000 l. No replyed L. Coll. Lilborne what need hath he his father hath enough given him for himself and Ireton too and they pisse both in one Glasse and know well enough how to share it iâ—le warrant you Because you mention Cromwell so much what hath he had given him that he hath not deserved by his many great and indefatigable services for the Common-wealth and therefore what hath been given him he may in justice honesty and honour accept but let us leave this discourse L. Coll. Lilborne wilt thou never leave thy self free from trouble what is the occasion of your being here Do you not know replyed L. Coll. Lilborne ask your great Masters they can best inform you But doe you hear of the blood that hath been shed of late they say your bustle hath been the occasion of it I was at Sandwish and there I met with some of their Letters signed with C. Y. S. C. You did not finde my hand there did you said L. Coll. Lilborne No replyed Mr. Peters but yet they say our are much the occasion of the late stirr Is it wisdome because you cannot have all done presently according to your mindes therefore to run out to such courses as will tear all to pieces and undoe both your selves and the whole kingdome I the occasion thereof replyed Lieut. Coll. Lilborne it they deal with others as they deal with me there will be occasion enough ere long iâ—le warrant you for I have been here this three moneths or upwards and have not as yet seen accusation Accuser or Judge and is this according to the Laws and Petition of Right which they have professed and promised so often to maintain I tell you they are worse tyrants then the King whose head they have taken off You talke of Lawes and the Petition of right replyed Mr. Peters when as you will have nothing to be law but what pleases your selfe and serves your own turne and that no longer neither Hath not you your selfe exclaimed more then any man against the Lawes Lawyers and their Courts in the Kings time as wicked cruell absolute oppressive and slavish yet now you seeme to cry up those lawes againe to serve your owne turne I tell you said Mr. Peters taking up Cookes reports these Law Books Lievtenant Collonell doe undoe thee thou wast of another minde to my knowledge not long sithence Law Bookes undoe me No they doe or should keep us all from undoing I tell you said Mr. Peters there is no Law in thee for doe you not see by daily experience and as your selfe have formerly observed that Cookes and Littletons opinions and the opinions of the Judges passe for Law notwithstanding you shall not finde three of them in one minde in many cases now Law truly so called is not the opinion of this or that man But what say you then to the Petition of right and Magna Charta are not those Law our Predecessors called them Lawes and if they be no Laws we are in a miserable condition I have said there is no Law in England I tell you this is my owne private opinion and I know not three more in England of my minde in this particular it is my opinion only I say for the reasons fore-mentioned No Law in England If this be their Tenent and yours that
are a leading man amongst them the Lord deliver us you are all of you a company of the very arrant'st Traitors Rogues and Villains in the world did not you fight for the Laws of the land I am sure you told the people you did if you did not you have deceived the people and you have no other way or shift in the world that I know of to save your selves from being Traitors in taking of the Kings head but that he endeavoured the destruction of the Laws and therefore for the peoples safety you were bound to destroy him Why This is true said Mr. Peters this is it indeed that made his execution just and righteous before God and Man but yet the Lawes were and are some of them evill wicked and slavish that had by him and his predecessors from the Conquest been forcibly and tyrannously imposed on us and wee nor you did not fight for the continuation or preservation of them I hope but to be freed from them But I pray you L. Col. give me your definition of Law for it may be else you may mistake and wrest my words I will not give it you in my own sense the Parliament shall give it you in their own Declaration So turning to their Declaration Mr. Peters read it and said Why is this a definition of Law This is onely a description of the benefit and good effects thereof and all these good things here spoken doe we not now enjoy in England This is no definition it wants the Genus and the other ingredients that make a true definition the definition of Law is rather some such thing as this viz Reason deduced and collected from particular events For necessity you know was and is the mother of Law evill manners are the occasion of Lawes and I know no Common-wealth this day in the world that can shew me a Body of law that will hold to all changes that may and wil happen in a State and therefore the daily Placats and Proclamations or Edicts of the States of Holland pleased me very well when I lived there So then it seems all must be according to the will of your Parliament and Army it seemes the Sword must give us Lawes Why what Law hath there been in this land heretofore that was not imposed by the Sword Did not the Norman thus impose his slavish Lawes on us And what Law have we now that we have not gotten and preserved by the Sword I tell you the sword must be in some hand or other to enforce the observation of Laws or what were you the better for Law It is honest an good Governours as much as laws that bring all these benefits on a people you read of in the Parliaments declaration for if wicked debauched persons be in place of power be the Lawes never so many or good the people will be miserable but now if good men be in place if the Lawes be evill or defective there is some presumption and ground of hope that they will make them better I tell you replyed L. Col. Lilburne I had rather live under wicked Devils with good Lawes then under the best men in the world with bad or none at all But I am not of your mind nor many reasonable men else I think Why then said L. Col Lilburne if the sword must give Law if sixe Theeves meet three honest men and because they are stronger rob them and take away their money therefore the act is justifiable in them because they had the stronger sword No replied I but if three honest men should met six theeves that had robbed them and being stronger then they should take away their own again from them is not the act lawfull because they used force to cause the theeves to deliver them what was their own again But L. Col. Lilburne said Mr. Peters because you cry up Law are for Law so much what doe you think of the Decalogue or ten Commandements are they no lawes for us in England or what do you think of the Parliamenâ—s Acts and Orders are these no lawes I tell you our wound at present lies mainly in the lawes of the land and in the Administrators and administration thereof there being no lessâ— by computation then 50000. Lawyers in the land enough to set ten Kingdoms together by the ears the processe of law being as tedious and vexatious as ever and the Courts as numerous some few onely excepted I hope the Parliament will take this into their consideration in time and rectiâ—ie this grievance to the Nation Sir said L. Col. Lilburne I thought my selfe safe whilst I squared my actions by the Rules of those lawes which the Parliament hath so often sworn and declared to maintain as the Petition of Right c. and so you may and every man else that walkes so by them as he walkes not beside them I shall let you see your mistake L Col. Lilburn in that particular and that youâ—s and the Common-wealths safety lies not in the Petition of Right or Magna Charta or any other thing commonly called Law in the land For Necessity you know is the mother of all Lawes and therefore lawes doe and must change and alter in that no law by man can bee made so absolute and perfect but that time and many other circumstances may alter the reason of it which indeed is onely the law and then it ceases to be a law any longer And as for Magna Charta and the Petition of â—â—â—ht what are they but some poore dull fragments and peeces of reason and â—â—eedome that our forefathers scrabled for and wrested by force out of the hands of their cruell tyrants And because we have obtained a little of what was our right must wee be bound up to it so as never to endeavour more to make our selves absolute free men when God gives in our power so to doe Sir I am very sory for you and doe wish the Spirit of glory may rest upon you for I assure you in many things of your Discourse especially in the violence of it your spirit seems to me very unhumbled and unchristian And so L Col. I bid you fare well if I can doe you any good I shall be ready to serve you Thus Reader have I given thee to the best of my remembrance and of theirs also that were with â—e and were ear-witnesses as well as my selfe a true full and impartiall Relaâ—ion of the Conference that passed between them Now I leave thee impartially to judge whether the Relator in his Relation intended it for the publick good and not rather to vent and insinuare a slander on Mr. Peters and to prejudice him and the whole State in him in the thoughts of the people Vale. FINIS