that S. Paul meaneth there a full plerophorian and perswasion that that which he doth is well done I graunt it But from whence can that spring but from fayth and how can we perswade and assure our selues that we do well but whereas we haue the word of God for our warrant so that the Apostle by a metonimie Subiecti pro adiuncto doth geue to vnderstād from whence the assured persuasion doth spring Whereupon it falleth out the forasmuch as in all our actions both publyke priuate we ought to follow the direction of the word of God in matters of the church and which concerne all there may be nothing done but by the word of god Not that we say as you charge vs in these words that no ceremonie c. may be in the church except the same be expressed in the word of God but that in making orders and ceremonies of the church it is not lawfull to doe what men list but they are bound to follow the generall rules of the scripture that are geuen to be the squire whereby those should be squared out Which rules I will here set downe as those which I would haue as well al orders ceremonies of the church framed by as by the which I wil be content that all those orders ceremonies which are now in question whether they be good conuenient or no should be tried examined by And they are those rules which Paule gaue in such cases as are not particularly mētioned of in scripture The first that they offend not any especially the Church of God. The second is that which you cite also out of Paul that all be done in order and comclynes The thirde that all be done to edifying The last that they be done to the glory of God. So that you see that those things which you recken vp of the houre time day of prayer c. albeit they be not specified in the scripture yet they are not left to any to order at their pleasure or so that they be not agaynst the worde of God but euen by and according to the word of God they must be established and those alone to be taken which do agree best and nearest with these rules before recited And so it is brought to passe which you thinke a great absurdity that al things in the church should be appoynted according to the word of god Wherby it likewise appeareth that we deny not but certayne things are left to the order of the church because they are of the nature of those which are varyed by times places persons other circumstances so could not at once be set down established for euer yet so left to the order of the church as that it do nothing agaynst the rules aforsayde But how doth this follow that certaine things are left to the order of the church therfore to make a new ministerie by making an Archbishop to alter the ministerie the is appointed by making a bishop or pastor without a church or flock to make a deacon without appointing him his church wherof he is a deacon wher he might exercise his charge of prouiding for the pore to abrogate cleane both name office of the elder with other more how I say doth it follow the because the church hath power to order certaine things therfore it hath power to do so of these which God hath ordayned and established of the which there is no tyme nor place nor person nor any other circumstance which can cause any alteration or chaunge Which thing shall better appeare both in the discourse of the whole booke and especially there where you go about to shew certayne reasons why there should be other gouernmēt now then was in the tyme of the apostles But whyle you goe about to seme to say much rake vp a great nomber of thinges you haue made very euill mestin and you haue put in one thinges which are not paires nor matches Because I will not draw the reader willingly into more questions then are already put vppe I will not stand to dispute whether the Lordes day which we call Sonday being the day of the resurrection of our sauiour Christ and so the day wherein the worlde was renued as the Iewes sabboth was the day wherein the world was finished and being in all the churches in the Apostles times as it seemeth vsed for the day of the rest and seruing of God ought or may be changed or no. This one thing I may say that there was no great iudgement to make it as arbytrarie and chaungeable as the houre and the place of prayer But where was your iudgement when you wrote that the scripture hath appoynted no discipline nor correction for suche as shall contemne the common prayers and hearing the word of God VVhat churche discipline would you haue other then admonions reprehensions and if these will not profitte excommunication and are they not appoynted of our sauioure Christe There are also ciuill punishments and punishmentes of the body likewise appoynted by the word of God in diuers places in Exodus He that sacrificeth to other gods and not to the Lorde alone shall dye the death And in Deutcronomie Thou shalt burne out the euill out of the middest of thee that the rest may heare learne and not dare do the like The execution of thys law appeareth in the Chro. by king Aza who made a law that all those that did not seke the Lord shuld be kilde And thus you see the ciuill punishment of contēners of the word prayers There are other for such as neglect the worde which are according to the quantitie of the fault so that whether you meane ciuil or ecclesiasticall correction the scripture hath defined of them both I omit that there be examples of pulpits in Nehemias which the common translation calleth Ezra of chaires in S. Mathew where by the chaire of Moses our sauioure Christ meaning the doctrine of Moses doth also declare the manner which they vsed in teaching Of sitting at the communion which the Euangelist noteth to haue bene done of our Sauioure Christ with his disciples which examples are not to be lightly chaunged and vppon many occasions But this I can not omitte that you make it an indifferent thing to preache the word of God in churches or in houses that is to say priuately or publikely For what better interpretation can I haue then of your owne wordes which say by and by after of Baptisme that it is at the order of the church to make it priuate or publike For if it be in the power of the church to order that Baptisme may be ministred at the house of euery priuate person it is also in her power to ordayne that the worde be preached also priuately And then where is that which Salomon sayth that wysdom cryeth openly in the streates and at the corners of the stretes where
thys poynt and in stead that the Lord sayth sixe dayes thou mayst labor if thou wilt to say thou shalt not labor sixe dayes I do not see why the church may not as well wheras the Lord sayth thou shalt rest the seuenth day commaunde that thou shalt not rest the seuenth day For if the church may restraine the liberty that God hath geuen thē it may take away the yoke also that God hath put vpon them And whereas you say in the. 173. page that notwithstanding thys fourthe commaundement the Iewes had certaine other feastes whych they obserued in deede the Lord whych gaue thys generall law might make as many exceptions as he thought good and so long as he thought good But it foloweth not because the Lord did it that therfore the church may do it vnles it hath commaundemēt and authority from God so to do As when there is any generall plague or iudgement of God either vpon the churche or comming towardes it the Lorde commaundeth in suche a case that they should sanctifie a generall fast and proclaime ghnatsarah whych signifieth a prohibition or forbidding of ordinary works and is the same Hebrewe word wherwyth those feastes dayes are noted in the lawe wherin they shuld rest The reason of whych commaūdement of the Lord was that as they abstained that day as much as might be conueniently from meat so they might abstaine from their daily workes to the ende they might bestowe the whole day in hearing the word of God and humbling themselues in the congregation confessing their faultes and desiring the Lorde to turne away from hys fearce wrathe In thys case the churche hauing commaundement to make a holy day may and ought to do it as the church which was in Babilon did during the time of their captiuity but where it is destitute of a commaundement it may not presume by any decree to restraine that liberty whych the Lord hath geuen Nowe that I haue spoken generally of holy dayes I come vnto the apostles and other saints dayes whych are kept wyth vs And thoughe it were lawfull for the church to ordaine holy dayes to our sauioure Christe or to the blessed Trinity yet it is not therfore lawfull to institute holy dayes to the apostles and other saintes or to their remembrance For although I confes as muche as you say in the. 153. page that the church of England doth not meane by thys keping of holy dayes that the saintes shoulde be honoured or as you alledge in the. 175. and. 176. pages that wyth vs the saints are not prayed vnto or that it doth propoūd them as meritorious yet that is not enough For as we reason against the popish purgatorie that it is therfore naught for as much as neyther in the olde Testament nor in the newe there is any mention of prayer at any time for the dead so may it be reasoned against these holy dayes ordained for the remēbrance of the saintes that for so much as the old people dyd neuer keepe any feast or holy day for the remembrance eyther of Moses or Daniel or Iob or Abraham or Dauid or any other how holy or excellent so euer they were nor the apostles nor the churches in their time neuer instituted any eyther to kepe the remembrance of Stephen or of the virgin Mary or of Iohn Baptist or of any other notable and rare personage that the instituting and erecting of them nowe and thys attempt by the churches whych folowed whych haue not such certen and vndoubted interpreaters of the will of God as the prophets and apostles were whych lyued in those churches is not wythout some note of presumption for that it vndertaketh those thyngs whych the primitiue churche in the apostles times hauing greater giftes of the spirite of God then they that folowed them had durste not venter vpon Moreouer I haue shewed before what force the name of euery thyng hath to cause men to thynke so of euery thyng as it is named and therfore although you say in the. 175. page that in calling these holy dayes the dayes of suche or such a Sainte there is nothyng else meante but that the Scriptures whych are that day red concerne that saynte and contayne eyther hys callyng preachyng persecution martyrdom c. yet euery one doth not vnderstand so much For besides that the corrupt custome of popery hath caryed theyr mindes to an other interpretation the very name and appellation of the day teacheth otherwise For seing that the dayes dedicated to the Trinity and those that are consecrate to our sauior Christ are in that they be called Trinity day or the Natiuity day of our sauior Christ by and by taken to be instituted to the honor of our sauyor Christe and of the Trinity so lykewyse the people when it is called S. Paules day or the blessed virgin Maryes day can vnderstand nothing therby but that they are instituted to the honor of S. Paule or of the virgin Mary vnles they be otherwyse taught And if you say let them so be taught I haue answeared that the teaching in thys lande can not by any order whych is yet taken come to the moste parte of those whych haue drunke thys poyson and where it is taught it were good that the names were abolyshed that they should not helpe to vnteach that whych the preaching teacheth in thys behalfe Furthermore seeing the holy dayes be ceremonies of the church I see not why we may not heere renue Augustines complaint that the estate of the Iewes was more tollerable then oures is I speake in thys poynt of holy dayes for if their holy dayes and oures be accompted we shall be foūd to haue more then double as many holy dayes as they had And as for all the commodityes whych we receiue by them whereby M. doctor goeth about to proue the goodnes and lawfulnes of their institution as that the scriptures are there red and expounded the patience of those saintes in their persecution and Martyrdome is to the edifying of the church remembred and yearely renewed I say that we myght haue all those commodities wythout all those dangers whych I haue spoken of wythout any keping of yearely memory of those sayntes and as it falleth out in better and more profitable sorte For as I sayd before of the keping of Easter that it tyeth and as it were fettereth a meditation of the Easter to a fewe dayes whych should reache to all our age and time of oure lyfe so those celebrations of the memories of saintes and martyrs streighten our consideration of them vnto those dayes whych should continually be thought of daily as long as we liue And if that it be thoughte so good and profitable a thyng that thys remembrance of them should be vpon those dayes wherin they are supposed to haue dyed yet it foloweth not therefore that after thys remembrance is celebrated by hearing the scriptures concerning them and prayers made to folowe their
manner of place they should haue where was pulpittes commaunded or chaires and yet they had both Where any forme of buriall in the law and yet it is a thing pertaining to the church that the deade be after a comely sorte buried Where any order or forme of mariage and yet it is knowne they had It was whych is more in the discretion of that churche vppon occasion of dearthe or warre plagues or any other common calamitie to proclaime a faste I wil not be long where as you say that they had nothing but was determined by the law and we haue many things vndetermined and left to the order of the churche I will offer for one that you shall bring that we haue left to the order of the church to shew you that they had twentie whych were vndecided of by the expres word of god For as their ceremonies and sacraments are multiplied aboue oures so grewe the nomber of those cases whych were not determined by any expres worde and therefore ▪ I will conclude that for so muche as we haue the same lawes to directe vs in the seruice of God whych they had beside that a noble addition of the newe Testament to make things more manifest and to bring greater light vnto the olde Testament we haue also precise direction of our religion as they had and therfore those places of Deuter. stand in as greate force nowe touching the gouernment of the church as they did then And as for the iudiciall lawe for as muche as there are some of them made in regarde of the region where they were geuen and of the people to whom they were giuen the Prince and Magistrate keping the substance equitie of them as it were the marrow may chaunge the circumstances of them as the times and places and manners of the people shall require But to say that any magistrate can saue the life of blasphemers contemptuous and stubborne Idolaters murderers adulterers incestuous persons and suche like whych God by hys iudiciall lawe hath commaunded to be put to death I doe vtterly denye and am ready to proue if that pertained to thys question And therfore althoughe the iudiciall lawes are permitted to the discretion of the prince and magistrate yet not so generally as you seeme to affirme and as I haue oftentimes sayde that not only it must not be done against the word but according to the worde and by it After you define what is it to take from put to the word of God wherin not to speake of your wonderfull dexteritie in defining whych can define two things and those contrary putting to and taking fro with one differēce which zeno him selfe could neuer do you leaue out that whych Moses especially meant to comprehend whych is not to do more nor to do les thē he hath cōmaunded And as for your deuision it hath as euil succes here as in other places for when it is a great fault in deuiding to haue eyther too muche or too little you faulte in bothe for whereas you say they adde whych teache or decree c. besides that you leaue out whych Moses ment you forget also that whych your selfe hadde sayd which had placed adding to not only in teaching and decreeing but in thinking or beleeuing And wheras you make foure partes of your deuision the three last are found to be all vnder the first member whych is to make things of fayth and ceremonies contrary to the worde and so your deuision is not only faultye but no diuision at all The whych thing I could haue easely forgeuen you and passed by as a thing not very commendable to trauaile to shewe the pouertye of those things whych doe sufficiently of them selues as it were proclaime their owne shame but that it greeued me to see a boke lengthened wyth first second thirde last as thoughe euery one of them contained some notable newe matter whych needed an Oyes before it to stirre vp the attention of the reader when there is nothing but a many of words wythout matter as it were a sort of faire emptie Apothecaries boxes wythout any stuffe in them And for that you are so hard wyth other men for their Logike I will desire the reader to pardone me if I pursue these things more narowlyer then some peraduenture will lyke of or I my selfe delight in And so for any definition or diuision that I cā perceiue it standeth fast that nothing is to be done in the church of God but by hys commaundement and worde directing the same It is true in deede if they be not against the word of God and be profitable for the church they are to be receiued as those thyngs whych God by the church dothe commaunde and as grounded of the word of God but there is the question and therefore you taking this as a thyng graunted alwayes do alwayes fal into that whych you charge other with of the fallation of petitio principii To that in the. 34. and. 35. page VVHere in effect doe they say that the church of Englande is boide of preaching and ministring of the sacraments is it all one to say that the word in the church of England is not purely preached and the sacraments sincerely and discipline seuerely administred wyth this that the churche of England is voyde of all these Againe where do they reason thus that the worde of God is not truely preached because the ministers are not rightly proued elected when as they haue not one worde of true preaching is it all one to say it is not purely preached to say it is not truely preached S. Paul is glad that the gospel be preached although it be not purely but he wold neuer haue bene glad y it shuld haue ben preached falsly or not truly Again he inueyeth not against the false Apostles in the church of Corinth because they preached the word vntruely but because they vsing paynted wordes and affected eloquence and making a great shew of learning and tounges dyd not preache the Gospell sincerely So that you see that it is one thing not to preache truely and an other not to preache purely and you see their reason is not so euill for the want of a good calling may geue occasion to say that the word of God is not sincerely taught because there is not a lawful and ordynary calling For although for the substance of doctryne and the manner of handling of it they that S. Paul speaketh of to the Phillip dyd no fault yet S. Paul sayth that they dyd not preach purely because they dyd it of contention or of eniue which was no fault in the doctryne but in hym that taught Therefore let men iudge how iust your waights are that expounde not purely not truely and whether thys be to confute other mens arguments rather then to skirmishe wyth your owne shadowes I know no papistes reason thus that because we haue no ministers therfore no word no sacraments no
of the Acces sheweth that S. Peter would not take vpon him to present two as sitte for the place which was voyde but sayth they dyd present or sette vp whereby appeareth that the examynation of their habilitie was committed to manye The same appeareth also in the sixte of the Actes when as the Apostles wil the church wherin there were so excellent personages to looke out seuen full of the holy ghost and wisdome c. they doe not there permit the dyscerning of their wisdome and other giftes to one but to many Secondarely I cannot commend it for that that one man is the Archdeacon which must examyne the pastors and iudge of their sufficiencie For what is the Archdeacon is he not a Deacon for he being the cheefe Deacon must needes be also a Deacon hym selfe And therfore although the cheefe deacon yet inferioure to any of the pastoures and the * giftes which are required in hym inferioure to those which are required in the pastoure And to make him iudge of the aptnesse ablenesse of the pastoure is to make the inferioure in giftes iudge of the superioure he that hath by hys calling lesse giftes iudge of his which hath by his calling greater giftes which is nothing else then to appoynt him that hath but one eye to ouersee hys sight that hath two Thirdly I mistyke the booke because it permitteth that the Bishop may admit the minister vpon the credite and report of the Archdeacon vpon his examination if there be no oppositiō of the people which appeareth by these words in the booke whereas to the Archdeacon saying thus Reuerend father in god I present vnto you these persons to be made priestes c. The Byshop answereth ¶ Take heede that the persons whome you present vnto vs be apt and meete for their godly conuersacion to exercise their ministerie duely to the honour of God and edifying of his church And thereupon I thinke it commeth that the Archdeacon is called the eye of the Byshop But why doth not he himselfe take heede vnto it with what conscience can he admit a Minister of whose fitnesse he knoweth not but vpon the credit of an other although he were otherwise very fitte where can he haue that full perswasion that he doth well vpon the report of others when the report of his life and learning is made but of one And therefore * S. Paul ordayned that the same should be the ordeyners and the examyners and not to hang vpon the fayth or report of an other man in thinges that are so waightie and whereof he may him selfe take notice Fourthly for that albeit the church is demaunded whether it haue any thing to obiect yet that church whereof he is to be pastor which it skilleth especially that he be fitte is not demaunded and which would because it standeth them vpon inquire dyligently of hym Agayne they are demaunded which can obiect nothing of his insufficiencie when for the most part they neuer see nor heard of before as one that came of one day vnto the towne and goeth away the next Further they haue no reasonable space geuen them wherein they may inquire or hearken out of hys honest conuersation and haue some experyence of hys soundnesse in teaching and discretion and iudgement to rule hys flocke But if as sone as euer it be sayde to those that are straungers that they should obiect agaynst them no mā stand forth to obiect any thing forthwith he is made a mynister And these are those things wherein I thinke the booke of ordering Mynisters faultie touching the tryall and examynation of the mynisters whiche selfe same thinges are lykewyse of the tryall of the Deacon And so you see that besydes the faultes of those that execute the lawe that there bee faultes in the lawes themselues and therefore the cause is truely assygned althoughe you see it not And what meane you still to vse thys fyghting wyth your owne shadow for where are the wordes or what be they that condemne all the Ministers for some that say all the Ministers are vnlawfully admitted for some or that there is none good because some are badde If there be no such wordes as cary with them any suche sense then you do wrong to your brethren If there be wordes that declare the cleane contrary then all men see what you be which althoughe you often faulte in yet I am lothe so often to name and charge you wyth it When it is sayd that learned and vnlearned are receyued it is euydent that they condemne not all The Lord blesse and encrease an hundreth folde the godly wise learned graue ministers of thys churche And because these wordes seeme to rocke vs a sleepe and to bring vs into forgetfulnesse of the great ruines desolations of the Churche I muste tell you that two thousande able and suffycient mynisters which preache and feede dyligently and carefully the flocke of Christ were hard to be founde in thys Churche which haue bene notwithstanding founde in the Church of Fraunce by the estimation of those which know the estate euen vnder the tyme of the crosse where there were no such helpes of Magistrates and appoynted stypendes as God be praysed we haue And agayne you are to be put in mynde that a great number of those were bredde in king Edwardes dayes so that I feare me a man neede no great Arithmatike to counte the numbers of such able ministers as the late yeares haue brought forth And yet I am well assured that if the ministerie were reformed and worthy men were sought for there are great nombers of zelous and learned men that would lay their handes to serue thys kynde of building by the ministerie For besydes numbers that the Vniuersities would yelde which sigh for the repayring of the decayes of the church to helpe forwarde so great a worke the Innes of Courte and other the gentrie of the realme Galene and Iustinian would bryng theyr tenthes and as it were pay their shot in this reckening It is not denied but the testimonie that a noble man which professeth the truth doth geue ought to be weighed accordyng to hys degree place which he hath in the common wealth but where you thinke that the testimonie of one wise man learned and godly is sufficient warrant to proceede to an election of a Minister you considered not well the circumspection which S. Paul vsed who when he admytted Tymothe into hys company to be a companyon in hys iourney to cutte of all occasion of euill speche receyued hym not * but vpon commendation of the brethren both in Lystra and I conyum You know they ment by the basest of the people such as gaue but one leape out of the shoppe into the Church as sodenly are chaunged out of a seruing mans coate into a mynisters cloke making for the most part the ministerie their last refuge c. And seeing that besydes the words be playne the dayly
it were a priuate example of one or in one place alone or if it were countermaunded by any other rule of the scripture then the example were not alwayes safe to follow But what if there bee commaundement also In the booke of Numbers the Lorde commaundeth that the Leuites which preached the word of God to the people in their seuerall congregations shoulde be brought before the Lorde and before the people and the people should lay theyr handes vppon the Leuites heades which what other thing is it then to declare their lyking of them and by that ceremony to consecrate them and set them aparte for that vse of their ministerie And if you say that it were a disorder that all shoulde lay on their handes I graunt you but so he speaketh because the approbatiō was by all and some in the name of the rest declared that by their laying on of handes But me thinketh I heare your olde answere that this pertaineth not vnto vs being a thing done vnder the law but take heede what you say for if you wil admit neyther the generall examples of the newe Testament nor the commaundements and examples of the Olde take heede that you do not or euer you be aware spoile vs of the cheefe and principall pillers and buttresses of our religion and bring vs to plaine Catabaptistrie whych you say you are so afraid of For to proue the Baptisme of children and yong infantes what stronger holde haue we then that God commaunded in the old Testament the they should be circumcised and examples thereof in the newe Testament for that the Apostles baptised whole families wherby all likelyhode there were children Now we saye that there is thys commaundement in the olde Testament of the ministers and there are examples in the newe Testament generall and through out why shuld it not then be necessary in this as wel as in the other Besides that in the. 6. of the Actes the Apostles commaund that the church should seke them out Deacons whome they might appoynt ouer the poore Touching certaine Ceremonies I haue shewed that they are necessarye as namely the Sacraments And as for Discipline and gouernment I haue shewed partly and more heereafter will be shewed that they are of the substance of the gospell if to haue Excommunication be to haue Discipline or if to haue pastors or Byshops and Doctors and Deacons be gouernment of the Churche You say that howsoeuer in the Apostles time thys vse was of hauing the consent of the church in the choise of their pastor or byshop nowe in thys estate it were moste pernicious and hurtfull Wherin see how vnaduisedly you condemne the churches of Geneua of all Fraunce of certaine of the Germaine churches which keepe thys order But you alledge your reasons therefore those those are to be considered because they come so rare For your manner is that if you can haue but one wryter newe or olde of your side or whych seemeth to be of your side you runne away wyth the matter as though you had scripture reason doctors and all I will therefore then take a viewe of your reasons when as I shall haue breefely set downe those reasons wherby the perpetuall equitie reasonablenes and conueniencie of thys order that the church should haue a stroke in her ministers election may appeare It is sayd amongst the Lawyers and in deede reason which is the law of all nations confirmeth it Quod omnium interest ab omnibus approbari debet That whych standeth all men vpon should be approued of all men Which lawe hath this sense that if it may be it were good that those things whych shall binde all men and whych require the obedience of all shoulde be concluded as farre as may be by the consent of all or at least by the consent of as many as may be gotten And therfore it draweth much the obedience of the subiectes of thys realme that the statutes whereby the realme is gouerned passe by the consent of the moste parte of it whilest they be made by them whome the rest put in trust and chuse for that purpose being as it were all their actes So is it also when the question is to chuse the magistrate Mayor or bailiffe or Constable of euery towne whych things if they haue good groundes in ciuill affaires they haue much better in Ecclesiasticall For it is much more vnreasonable that there should be thrust vpon me a gouernoure of whom the euerlasting saluation or damnation both of my body and soule doth depend then him of whome my wealth and commoditye of thys life doth hang. Onles those vpon whome he were thrust were fooles or madde men or children wythout all discretion of ordering them selues whych as I will shewe can not agree wyth those that are the church of god and are to haue a pastor For they of the church of God although they be called sheepe in respect of their simplicitye and harmelesnes yet are they also for their circumspection wise as serpents in the wisdom especially whych is to saluation and how vile accompt so euer you wil make of of them they are the people of God and therfore spirituall and forthwith those of whome S. Paule sayth the spirituall man discerneth all thyngs Moreouer reason and experience teacheth that it maketh muche to the profiting of the church vnder the hande of the pastor or bishop that the churche loue him and reuerence him For the contempt and hatred of the minister for the most parte standeth not in hys owne person but reacheth euen vnto the doctrine whych he teacheth But the minister that the churche desireth it commonly best loueth and moste reuerenceth and of the other side hateth and contemneth hym that is thrust vpon them therfore it maketh muche to the profiting of the people in the doctrine of the gospell that the minister come in by their consent Likewise the people must by S. Paule hys rule folowe the good example of the minister but men will not likely folowe their examples whome they loue not nor loue them whych are thrust vpon them against their willes therfore it standeth wyth the good conuersation and godlye folowing of the steppes of the minister that he be wyth the consent of the Churche And if it should happen whych may come to passe that any church should desire or chuse or consent vpon by the most part some that is vnmete eyther for doctrine or manners then the ministers and elders of the other churches rounde about should aduertise first and afterward as occasion should serue sharply and seuerely charge that they forbeare suche election or if it be made that they confirme it not by suffering him to exercise any ministerie And if eyther the churches round about do faile of this duety or the church whych is admonished rest not in their Admonition then to bring it to the nexte Synode and if it rest not therin then the Prince or Magistrate whych must see
be seruauntes vnto the church and as they rule in the churche so they must remember to subiect them selues vnto the churche to submit their scepters to throw downe their crownes before the church yea as the Prophet speaketh to licke the dust of the feete of the churche Wherein I meane not that the churche doth eyther wring the scepters out of Princes hands or taketh their crownes from their heads or that it requireth Princes to licke the dust of her feete as the Pope vnder thys pretence hath done but I meane as the Prophet meaneth that whatsoeuer magnificence or excellencye or pompe is eyther in them or in their estates and common wealthes whych doth not agree wyth the simplicity and in the iudgement of the world poore and contemptible estate of the church that that they will be content to lay downe And heere commeth to my minde that wherwyth the world is now deceyued and wherwyth M. doctor goeth about bothe to deceiue him selfe and others to in that he thinketh that the church must be framed according to the common wealth and the church gouernment accordyng to the ciuill gouernment whych is as much to say as if a man shuld fashion hys house according to hys hāgings when as in deede it is cleane contrary that as the hangings are made fit for the house so the common wealth must be made to agree wyth the church and the gouernment therof wyth her gouernmēt For as the house is before the hangings therefore the hangings whych come after must be framed to the house whych was before so the church being before there was any common wealthe and the common wealthe comming after muste be fashioned and made sutable vnto the church Otherwyse God is made to geue place to men heauen to earth and religion is made as it were a rule of Lesbia to be applyed vnto any estate of common wealth whatsoeuer Seing that good men that is to say the church are as it were the foundation of the worlde it is meete that the common wealthe whych is builded vppon that foundation should be framed according to the churche therfore those voyces ought not to be heard thys order will not agree wyth oure common wealth that lawe of God is not for our state thys forme of gouernment will not matche wyth the pollicy of thys realme Nowe to come againe to M. Doctors reasons he sayeth in the. 133. page that if they vrge gouernoures because they are spoken of in the. 12. to the Corin. then they may as well vrge the power to worke miracles the gift of healing c. for that they are likewyse reckened vp in the same place But dothe not M. doctor know that although some thyngs be extraordinarye and for a time yet other some thyngs are ordinary and to endure alwayes Will he say for that the gifts of miracles and of healing are extraordinarye therefore the teachers whych are there reckened together wyth the gift of working miracles and of healing are extraordinary hath he forgotten that he in deede vntruely made before the office of Apostles and Prophets and Euangelists a perpetual office and yet they are there ioyned wyth these gifts whych were but for a time and therfore it is a very absurde argument to saye that for that some thyng reckened with gouernors is for a time and extraordinary therfore the gouernors be so As for Musculus authoritye whych is that the tymes do chaunge the orders besides that I haue answeared before and besides that he dothe not speake it of the Elders I haue proued that it can haue no place heere for so much as the Elders are necessarye and commaunded in the scripture Vnto the authors of the Admonition saying that it is easier to ouerthrowe by bryving one man then the fayth and piety of a godly company he answeareth that so it should come to passe that the moe that ruled the better estate it shoulde be and so the populare estate should be the best But where do the authors of the admonition say that the more that rule the better it is is it all one to saye that the gouernment of a fewe of the best is better then the gouernment of one and to saye the more that rule the better If it were to the purpose it myghte be shewed both by Diuinitye and by Philosophye whych M. Doctor speaketh of that that estate whych he meaneth is not the best and I haue in a word before spoken of it where I declared that the mixed estate is best bothe by the example of the kingdome of Christ and also of thys our realme It is sufficient nowe to admonyshe you that although it be graunted that the gouernment of one be the best in the common wealth yet it can not be in the church For the Prince may wel be Monarche immediately betwene God the common wealth but no man can be Monarche betwene God hys church but Christ whych is the only head therof Therfore the Monarchie ouer the whole church and ouer euery particulare church and ouer euery singular membre in the church is in Chryst alone Last of all to proue that there ought to be no senyors in the church vnder a Christian prince he citeth Ambroses authority both in the. 114. and. 132. pages whych sayeth that the sinagogue or church of the Iewes after that the church of the chrystians had senyors wythout whose counsell nothyng was done in the church whervpon he concludeth that for as much as they were not in Ambrose tyme therfore they were not vnder a christian prince And heere M. doctor hath in one sentence proclaimed bothe hys great ignorance in the whole storye of the churche and wythall eyther a maruellous abusion and suffering hym selfe to be misled by some vnaduysed prompter or subtile foxe that thought to deceyne him or else a notable euill conscience whych wrastleth agaynst the truthe Hys ignorance doth appeare partly in that he sayeth that because there were no senyors in Amb. church and in those churches about hym therefore there was none at all but moste manifestly in that he sayeth for so much as there were no senyors in Amb. time therefore there was none vnder a christian Prince as though there were not many yeres before Amb. tyme christian Emperors when as betwene the tyme of S. Ambrose being byshop and the tyme of Phillip successor of Gordias the first christian Emperor there is more then a. 150. yeares and betweene the time of Constantine the Emperor and the tyme of Ambrose being byshop there be aboue 80. yeares And if M. Doctor had euer red the ecclesiasticall storyes he mought haue founde easely the eldershyp moste flourishyng in Constantines tyme and other tymes when as the peace of the chrystians was greatest And that the presbyterie or eldershyp endured in the church after Ambrose tyme and in the tyme of peace and as it is very lyke in Amb. tyme although not where he was it may be shewed
Phillippyans and of the Actes for although it be not there sayd that the deacons were in euery church yet for so muche as the same vse of them was in all churches which was in Ierusalem at Philippos and for that the Apostles as hath bene before touched laboring after the vniformitie of the church ordeyned the same officers in all churches the proofe of one is the proofe of all and the shewing that there were deacōs in one church is the shewing in all The place which they alledge out of the first to Timothe is of all other most proper for S. Paule there describing not how the church of Ephesus but simply and generally how the church must be gouerned reckneth there the order of deacons Whereunto may be added the contynuall practise of the church long after the Apostles times which appeareth by the often superscriptions and subscriptions in these words the byshop elders and deacons of such a church and vnto the byshop elders and deacons of such a church And by that it is so often times sayd in the councelles where the churches assembled y there were so many byshops so many elders so many deacons The thirde poynt in thys deaconship is whether it be a necessary office in the church or for a tyme only which controuersy shoulde not haue bene if M. Doctors english tong had bene agreable with hys latin For in a certayne latin pamphlet of hys whereof I spake before he maketh the deaconship a necessary office and such as ought not to be taken out of the church here he singeth a nother song There because he thought the necessitie of the deacon made for hym he wold nedes haue deacons here because it maketh agaynst hym he sayth there is no neede of them wherby appeareth how small cause there is that M. Doctor should vpbrayde the authors of the admonition with mutability and discord with them selues But that thys office is durable and perpetuall it may appeare by that which I haue alledged before out of the sixt of Timothe for the necessitie of elders for the argumentes serue to proue the necessitie of those orders which are there set forth whereof the deacon is one And where as M. Doctor sayth that euery church is not hable to fynde a curate as he termeth hym and a deacon I haue before shewed intreating of the senyors that the churches in the Apostles tymes might best haue sayd thys being poore and persecuted althoughe I see not why the church may not haue a deacon or deacons if moe be needefull with as small charges as they may haue a collector or collectors There remayneth to speake of the widdowes which were godly poore women in the church aboue the age of 60. yeares for the auoyding of all suspition of euill which might rise by slaunderous tonges if they had bene yonger These as they were norished at the charges of the church being poore so dyd they serue the church in attending vpon poore strangers and the poore which were sicke in the church whereof they were widdowes Now although there is not so great vse of these widdowes with vs as there was in those places where the churches were first founded and in that tyme wherein thys order of widdowes was instituted part of the which necessity grew both by the multitude of straungers through the persecution by the great heate of those east countries whereupon the washing supplyng of their feete was required yet for so much as there are poore which are sicke in euery church I doe not see how a better and more conuenient order can be deuised for the attendance of them in their sicknes other infirmities then thys which S. Paule appoynteth that there shuld be if there can be any gotten godly poore widdowes of the age which S. Paule appoynteth which should attend vpon such For if there be any such poore widdowes of that age destitute of all friendes it is manifest that they must needes liue of the charge of the church seing they must nedes do so it is better they shuld do some duety for it vnto the church agayne thē the church should be at a new charge to finde others to attend vpon those which are sicke destitute of keepers seing that there can be none so fit for that purpose as those women which S. Paule doth there describe so that I conclude that if such may be gotten we ought also to kepe that order of widowes in the church still I know y there be lerned men which thinke otherwise but I stand vpon the authoritie of Gods worde and not vppon the opynions of men be they neuer so well learned And if the matter also shoulde be tryed by the iudgement of men I am able to shew the iudgement of as learned as thys age hath brought forth which thinketh that the institution of widdowes is perpetuall and ought to be where it may be had and where such widdowes are founde In deede they are more rare now then in the Apostles tymes For then by reason of the persecution those which had the gift of continency dyd abstayne from mariage after the death of their husbandes for that the sole lyfe was an easyer estate and lesse daungerous and chargeable when they were driuen to flye then the estate of those which were maryed Vnto all the rest vntill the ende of the first part of the admonition I haue answered alredy Yet there is a poynt or two which I must touch wherof the first is in the. 126. page where he would beare men in hand that the authors of the admonition and some other of theyr mynde would shut out the cyuill magistrate and the Prince from all authoritie in Ecclesiastical matters which surmise although I see it is not so much because eyther he knoweth or suspecteth any such thing as because he meaneth heereby to lay a bayte to entrappe with all thinking that where he maketh no conscience to geue he careth not what authority to Princes we will be loth to geue more then the word of God will permit wherby he hopeth to draw vs into displeasure with the Prince yet for because he shall vnderstande we norish no opynions secretly which we are ashamed to declare openly and for that we doubt not of the equitie of the prince in thys part which knoweth that although her authoritie be the greatest in the earth yet it is not infinite but is lymitted by the word of God and of whome we are perswaded that as her maiesty knoweth so shee will not vnwillingly heare the truth in thys behalfe these things I say being considered I answere in the name of the authors of the admonition and those some other which you speake of that the Prince and cyuill magistrate hath to see that the lawes of God touching hys worshippe and touching all matters and orders of the church be executed dewly obserued to se that euery Ecclesiasticall person do that office whereunto he is
this that the church may ordaine certaine thyngs according to the word of God. But if this epistle and others of M. Bucers with his notes vpon the boke of Common prayer which are so often cited and certaine Epistles of M. Peter Martyr were neuer printed as I can not vnderstand they were then besides that you do vs iniurie whych go about to preiudice our cause by the testimonies of them which we can neither heare nor see being kept close in your study you also do your cause much more iniurie whilest you betray the pouerty and nakednes of it being faine to ransake rifie vp euery darke corner to finde some thing to couer it with Therefore it were good before you toke any benefite of them to let thē come forth and speake their owne testimonies in their owne language and ful out For now you geue men occasion to thinke that there are some other things in their Epistles whych you would be lothe the world should know for feare of fall of that which you would gladly keepe There is no man that fayth that it ought to be permitted to euery person in the church where he is minister to haue such order or discipline or to vse such seruice as he listeth no mā seeketh for it But to haue the order which God hath left in those things which the word precisely appoynteth and in other thyngs to vse that whych shall be according to the rules of S. Paule before recited agreed by the church and constrined by the Prince And whereas you haue euer hitherto geuen the ordering of these thyngs to the churche howe come you nowe to ascribe it to the Bishops you meane I am sure the Bishops as we call Bishops heere in England whereby you fall into the opinion of the papists vnwares which when they haue spoken many things of the churche magnifically at the last they bring it nowe to the Doctors of the church nowe to byshops As forme although I doute not but there be many good men of the Byshoppes and very learned also and therfore very meete to be admitted into that consultation wherin it shal be cōsidered what things are good in the church yet in respect of that office and calling of a bishop which they now exercise I thinke that euery godly learned minister pastor of the churche hath more interest and right in respect of his office to be at that consultation then any bishop or archbishop in the realme for as muche as he hath an ordinarie calling of God function appoynted in the scriptures which he exerciseth and the other hath not But how thys authoritie pertaining to the whole church of making of such orders may and ought to be called to a certaine number that confusion may be auoyded and wyth the consent also of the churches to auoyde tyrannie it shall appeare in a more proper place where we shall haue occasion to speake of the eldership or gouernment in euery churche and of the communion and societie or participation and entercommuning of the churches togither by councels and assemblies prouinciall or nationall Answere till the Admonition from the beginning of the 30. page VNto the places of Deuteronomic whych proue that nothyng oughte to be done in the churche but that whych God commaundeth and that nothyng should be added nor diminished First you answere that that was a precept geuen to the Iewes for that time whych had all things euen the least prescribed vnto them I see it is true whych is sayd that one absurditie graūted a hundred follow For to make good that things ought to be done besides the scripture and worde of God you are driuen to runne into parte of the error of the Manichees whych say that the olde Testament pertaineth not vnto vs nor bindeth not vs For what is it else then to say that these two places serued for the Iewes time and vnder the lawe For surely if these two places agree not vnto vs in time of the gospell I knowe none in all the olde Testament whych doe agree and I praye you what is heere sayde whych S. Iohn in the * Apocalipse saythe not where he shutteth vp the newe Testament in thys sorte I protest vnto euery mā whych heareth the prophecie of thys boke that whosoeuer addeth any thing to it the Lorde shall adde vnto him the plagues whych are wrytten in it and whosoeuer taketh away any thing from it the Lord shall take away his portion out of the boke of life and out of the things that are wrytten in it which admonition if you say pertaineth to that boke of the Apocalipse only yet you must remember that the same may be as truely sayd of any other boke of the scripture Then you are driuen to saye that the Iewes vnder the lawe had a more certaine direction and consequently a readyer waye then we haue in the time of the gospell of the whych time the Prophet sayeth that then a man shoulde not teache his neighbor they shal be so taught of God as if he should say that they that liue vnder the gospel should be all in comparison of that whych were vnder the lawe Doctors And Esay sayth that in the dayes of the gospell the people shall not stande in the outward courtes but he will bring them into the sanctuarie that is to say that they shoulde be all for their knowledge as learned as the Leuites and Priestes whych only had entraunce into it Now if the Iewes had precepts of euery the least action whych told them precisely how they should walke how is not their case in that poynt better then oures whych because we haue in many things but generall rules are to seeke oftentimes what is the will of God whych we should follow But let vs examine their lawes and compare them with oures in the matters pertaining to the church for whereas the question is of the gouernment of the church it is very impertinent that you speake of the iudicialies as though you had not yet learned to distinguishe betweene the Church and common wealth To the ordering and gouerning of the church they had only the moral and ceremoniall law we haue the same morall that they had what speciall direction therfore they enioy by the benefite of that we haue We haue no ceremonies but two the ceremonies or sacraments of Baptisme and of the Lords supper we haue as certaine a direction to celebrate them as they had to celebrate their ceremonies and fewer and les difficulties can rise of oures then of theirs and we haue more plaine and expres doctrine to decide our cōtrouersies then they had for theirs What houre had they for their ordinarie and daily sacrifices was it not left to the order of the church what places were apointed in their seuerall dwellings to heare the woorde of God preached continually when they came not to Ierusalem the word was commaunded to be preached but no mention made what