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A62667 The Quakers apostasie from the perfect rule of the scriptures discovered in a double reply to a twofold answer of theirs, in the vindication of several queries propounded by the author : wherein their deceits, blasphemies and reproches against scripture authority and ordinances of institute religious worship, are spoken unto, their main principles examined and denyed, the truth defended and cleared against their railing, slandering, censorious pens and tongues / by John Timson ... Timson, John. 1656 (1656) Wing T1295; ESTC R21114 77,026 109

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fourth Question is in the negative in the first part denying that man hath any light in him at all to please God in the state of corrupt nature and this I judge a truth though not proper to the Question which is not of doing to please God but of whence that light is that all have you talk of which in the second part you answer is from Christ according to Joh. 1.9 and yet not common to all men by nature but is the great gift of God c. which Answer I charged with a contradiction because all are lightened by Christ that come into the world as you quote and yet say man in corrupt nature hath not any light in him nor is it common to men by nature when it 's certain that men come into the world by naturall birth But to reconcile these they Answer That man in corrupt nature is darknesse but Christ lightneth every one and his light shines in darknesse and makes manifest what ever is reproved Though we deny that the light which convinceth for sin is of corrupt man yet we affirme it to be given to man in Christ And this is the substance of what is said That man in corrupt nature should be darknesse in the abstract and hath not any light in him and that man in the same estate is lightened by Christ and that with such a light too that if it be owned and loved will lead out of darknesse to eternall life as they affirme let them that are sober judge how these agree together Such cannot do any thing to please God and yet have that within them that will lead them out of darknesse to eternall life which is the greatest acceptation of favour God gives to man Then they conclude For though we deny the light which convinceth of sin to be of corrupt man yet say they We affirm it to be given to man in Christ who is the life and enlighteneth every one that comes into the world But how can they affirme that all men in corrupt nature are in Christ and so enlightened by him when the Scriptures speak contrary as Ephes 2.11 12. Wherefore remember that ye being in times past Gentiles in the flesh that at that time ye were without Christ and strangers to the Covenant of Promise having no hope and without God in the world They were sometimes darknesse but now are they light in the Lord since they embraced the Doctrine of faith that the Apostles preached and lived in Christian obedience they are said to be light in the Lord Contradistinct to the other Gentiles that walked after the vanity of their minds chap. 4.17 18 19. And there are some that are not in the faith nor new creatures which all are that are in Christ as 2 Cor. 5.17 chap. 13.5 And how can any be said to be in Christ but by faith which all men have not 2 Thes 3.2 And how did the Apostles by their preaching open blind eyes and turn them from darknesse to light by the command power of Christ if they had the light of Christ and in Christ as before which hath been spoken to as Christ is the light of the Gentiles according to Scriptures By this you may see how clear they come off in what I have charged them with To say that man in the state of corrupt nature hath not any light at all is not true but it is true that a man in that estate cannot do any thing acceptable to God as those that are renewed by grace The former without doubt have the light and use of true reason and understanding faculties though corrupted and as the light of reason presents things to the Conscience good or evil doth the Conscience accuse or give quiet to the mind of man in all his actions Hence the Gentiles by nature do the things contained in the Law and are a Law unto themselves Rom. 2.14 15. The Apostle doth not say that they doe the things contained in the Law by Grace in Christ Jesus as you say and witnesse in your next But he saith they do the things contained in the Law and are a Law to themselves by nature simply will you say that what they did by nature they did by Christ and wherein they were a Law to themselves Christ was that Law to them Surely no unlesse you have an art to make the nature of man corrupted and Christ both one that the being and nature of man is of Christ uncorrupted as all things are which he hath made may be granted for in him we live move and have our being And as the reasonable soul is created and given it may be said to be of God and the candle of the Lord but in mans fallen estate this soul the candle of the Lord is so perverted and under blindnesse and obliquity that not any flesh can be justified and saved by any works of the Law but by faith in the blood of Christ Jesus shed for many for remission of sins There is not any that doth good no not one all have sinned and are deprived of the Glory of God Rom. 3. How Christ is the light of the Gentiles and for salvation to the ends of the earth that have not the letter as they again is answered above and what followes I deny namely And not any other light leads to do the things contained in the law because those the Apostle speaks of were of those other Gentiles that were alienated from the life of Christ through the ignorance that is in them darknesse But they go on and say further But this light of Christ doth not only lead to the righteousnesse of the law as thou sayst but it leads through the law to Christ Jesus in whom justification is witnessed who is the end of the law for righteousnesse to every one that believes Rom. 10.4 Answ The main scope and end of the Law is this to require of man a righteousnesse suitable in his own person as he is Gods creature unto it but man being never able to come up to this end in his fallen estate and so by coming short of righteousnesse he falls short of life Jesus Christ was sent in the likenesse of sinfull flesh and for sin or by a sacrifice for sin condemned sin in the flesh And on the sinners behalf is the end of the law for righteousnesse that by his coming up to the end of the law poor sinners that believe in him may have righteousnesse and life But what is this to them that have not heard of Christ nor known his name nor believed in him in truth at all The Apostle said as I That the Gentiles by nature do the things contained in the Law he no where calls this Law in themselves the light of Christ promised nor doth he say what they do by nature leads through the Law to Christ nor any other Scripture as you affirme Well may I charge you with confused notions if you can no better clear your
the simple and David acknowledges it to be both a Lamp and a light Psal 119. Besides whatsoever makes manifest is light but the Scripture doth make manifest what Christ is and what he hath done and suffered and for whom and for what ends So also they make manifest what sin is and the wages thereof what holinesse and true Worship of God is and how God will be served by all that shall be saved therefore the Scriptures are a true light If the Spirit of Christ doth give forth light to men then the Scriptures are a light to enlighten men because holy men writ them as they were moved and inspired by the holy Ghost and all Scripture were given by Inspiration of God and therefore deny the light of Scriptures and deny the light of the Spirit for what the Scripture saith the Spirit saith they being the Revelations and Inspirations of the Spirit And what may we think of these seducers that under pretence of a light within and a perfect Law of God in the heart and the Revelations of Christ in them condemn me for making the Revelations and Inspirations of God in Scripture a perfect Rule of faith and obedience but we are sure the Law of God which Scriptures teach is perfect holy just and good and a sure word and the Inspirations of God contained in Scriptures are true as God himself but as for that Law and Spirit that cannot stand unlesse the Scriptures fall it is easie to discern from whence it is But say they this light is not received from the Scripture but from Christ c. Answ The light of Scripture is the light of Christ as also the Scripture Ministry by which alone Christ became a light to the Gentiles and in that Christ hath appointed a Ministry of men and given them gifts and Authority to preach the Gospell unto the Gentiles and by his blessing hath made them successefull to turn them from darknesse to light as in the Apostles age especially Thus and no otherwise is he sent to be a light unto the Gentiles for how can any believe in him of whom they never heard as hath been spoke to already and what ever is wrought by his Authority in the use of means is all one with being wrought by Christ himself to any that are sober And hence those distinctions of mine are grounded of Christ more strictly and immediately and of Christ more comprehensive and in a mediate sense as he hath made the promise of his presence and blessing to those Ministers of the Gospell that teach and administer in the Church all things whatsoever Christ hath commanded to be done Matth. 28.19 He that walks in the midst of the seven Golden Candlesticks will be with the Scripture Ministry to the end of the World untill the whole be gathered and united to their head and made compleat in him They say this light of Christ cannot be blotted out as thou sayst That which I said was a supposition thus Suppose that all the light of Christ as Redeemer which you from time to time have received from the use of Scriptures Ministry Education Discourse were blotted out of your minds and heads tell me what you could know of Christ as he is designed of God to redeeme lost man and how the work of Redemption is wrought more then the rude heathen that never heard of his name All that they Answer to this is That the light cannot be blotted out as thou saist But what light is that which cannot be blotted out Say they The light of Christ that leads out of darknesse to the knowledge of God to eternall life though they have not the use of Scriptures this light is not received into the mind and head from the Scripture neither cannot be blotted out but it comes from Christ the light of the Gentiles such as thou callest Heathens who many of them shew the work of the Law in their hearts and shall be excused when thou and all that oppose the light of Christ shall be condemned Christians look about you for the Devil was never so bold as now and I think there is more of the Devil in so few lines then ever were writ by man before consider them well I assure you it 's all their own Was ever such an abominable thing asserted amongst Christians The light of Christ that leads out of darknesse to the knowledge of God to eternall life is not received in the mind from the Scripture but from Christ the light of the Gentiles As if the Scriptures were opposed to the light of Christ or of no use to reveal Christ as Redeemer to the salvation of lost man Christians you see now their Answer what it is to the Question namely That the light of Christ without the use of Scripture leads out of darknesse to the knowledge of God to eternall life c. even to the Gentiles that never heard of Christ nor believe in him to salvation But if this be true to what end did Christ come into the world and lay down his life to be a ransome for many and why did he shed his blood for many for remission of sins Christs death and resurrection is all in vain for all the world from the beginning have had this kind of light shewing the work of the law in their hearts and do by nature the things contained in the Law 1. But let them prove that this work of the Law is the light of Christ that Simeon prophesied of and the Prophets and that the Apostles witnessed fulfilled by their preaching and writings 2. And let them prove that the work of the Law in their hearts leads out of darknesse to eternall life The Scriptures say the contrary By the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified nor is there any law that can give life 3. And let them prove that the work of the Law in the hearts of unbelieving Gentiles is a spirituall blesseing of the new Covenant Heb. 8. which the Apostle applyed to the believing Church so did the Prophets of old time Jer. 31. If they cannot prove these three things let shame stop their lying mouths Jesus Christ as he was promised to be a light of the Gentiles Isai 42.6 7. is to be understood of a peculiar spirituall light Christ was given for such a light to the Gentiles as should open the blind eyes and bring out the Prisoners from the Prison and them that sit in darknesse in the Regions and shadow of death out of the Prison house to guide their feet in the way of peace Luk. 1. Which accordingly was fulfilled in the Apostles age but how not by Christ immediately but by Christs Authority who appointed men and furnished them with gifts and abilities to preach the Gospell unto them and opened their hearts to receive it and become Christians in profession and truth And in that they were converted and enlightened by means himself appointed is all one by being converted and enlightened
their opinion of a sufficiency of universall grace to all in Christ that leads out of darknesse to eternal life as the Quakers do as hath been shewed by their own Papers under their hands destroyes Gods distinguishing will of his purpose and good pleasure manifesting his mercy and love to whom he will because he will and not to others not only in respect of the end but of the means subservient to the end hence comes free will to be saved or damned which these men cannot evade for if every man in the world hath a sufficient light of Christ to lead out of darknesse to eternall life if they will but heed it c. then it followes that all men may be saved that will unlesse you say that that condition of loving and heeding this sufficient light in man is not in the power of man but is the speciall grace of God given to whom he will upon choyce but you cannot say so but you will destroy your main principle which is universall and must be urged every way sufficient to eternal life and happinesse or else to what purpose is the pressing of this light to all if all have not a power to improve it up to that very end of happinesse That there is such a light and power in all men that shall leave them without excuse and being improved to the utmost shall not only mitigate the Torments of hell but be a means of enjoying many blessings in this world and the way and means of renewing quickning grace where God gives his word and ordinances to any is easily yeelded by men of sober judgement but to say as you that all men in the world have a sufficient light in Christ to lead them out of that corrupt dark state of nature to eternall life and have power in themselves thus to improve it if they will This text Joh. 1.9 falls short of the proof or any other Scripture whatever and therefore to be rejected as a fancy of mans vain mind meerly And do but seriously consider what wicked errors this one principle of yours runs you upon point blank to plain and evident Scriptures First you have in favour of this fancyed such a light in every one that you sometimes call the light Christ the Law of the new Covenant the counsell of God in the secret of the soul that Spirit of Christ which convinceth the world of sin and Christ the light of the Gentiles all which as you apply them to every man in the world have been confuted and are most pernicious errors which the Scriptures oppose Secondly hence you perswade all men to cease from all outward means of light and onely attend upon the light within and to wave all outward worship in holy observances according to Scriptures and only obey the commands of the light and commands of Christ within though inconfistent with the Scriptures never so much For that which I call the word and ordinances namely the holy writings of the Prophets and Apostles and the ordinances of holy Worship which have their institution and foundation from the Spirit of God speaking and moving what they writ These things you say is but the letter and traditions of men as in the latter end of your answer to this fourth Question besides your frequent reproaching these things in most of your papers that fly abroad I have made some discovery already and what means all this but that you judge the light of Christ to all is sufficient alone to life eternall Thirdly hence it is that you have fancyed a more spirituall Christ then Christ that was made flesh by incarnation who was truely God and truely man in one person and offered himself a sacrifice to God to reconcile sinners to God and preached peace to them that were neer and afarre off c. Because this Christ this person this sacrifice and the ends thereof are not known nor heard of to all in the world so that rather then you will put a limit to this Text Joh. 1.9 which meerly the strength of fancy hath taken up you will invent another Christ that will make the Text hold to every man and that is no other then the rationall soul of man corrupted which indeed is called the candle of the Lord but no where called the Lords Christ in whom we have redemption through his bloud c. Fourthly hence you have fancyed an universall free Grace of God to all men in the world equally alike and a new Covenant to all men in the world and this light is that Grace of God and the blessing promised in the new Covenant Heb. 8 and these universalls cannot be without the other of universall redemption though they say little of it because that Christ they have in their fancy was not capable of shedding blood for any such end And why not a universall salvation as well inasmuch the one as the other but that men will not besaved notwithstanding they are redeemed and renewed with saving grace by vertue of Redemption and the new Covenant But do you think that this is all which the Scriptures teach as touching Redemption by Christ the free love and grace of God bestowed on men as they are blessings of the new and everlasting Covenant which stands in remission of sins and in the giving of his Spirit to renew and sanctifie and soften the carnall old hard and rebellious heart of man I say doth all the mercy and grace of God through Christ amount to no more then so as to depend upon the will of man resisting or not improving what God intends to their eternall happinesse If all men have new hearts and the Spirit and pardon of sin by vertue of the new Covenant what can hinder the salvation of all Or what is it that makes this great difference between one man and another if the Grace of God according to the new Covenant makes all equall at first What is it or who hath made thee to differ from another man I pray you answer in whom doth the election obtain it for that some believe and others not You talk of the children of light unto whom saith is only given but why should you make any restriction amongst men if all have Christ in them and have the Law of the new Covenant writ in their hearts as a blessing thereof What should hinder the salvation of all that have this supernaturall Grace will the Lord condemn any that have the light and life of reall grace and forgivenesse of sins by vertue of the new Covenant which you apply to all in the world If all that come into the world have a sufficiency of Grace to lead out of darknesse to eternall life then what need hath any of converting regenerating Grace Or what need any pray for the Grace of God to convert and turn them to God if they have it in themselves as they come into the world Do you think or can you believe that those promises of giving
Gods Spirit a new heart and of putting his fear and writing his lawes and circumcising the hearts of the Fathers and children to love the Lord with all their hearts and sending his Son to blesse his people in turning them from their iniquities and to give them repentance and remission of fins is performed to all in the world I pray you consider and do not wilfully forsake your own mercies in the resisting of that truth which by this time you cannot but confesse in the secret of your souls and stand convinced in your selves that your foundation is meerly the mud and sand of a deluded fancie See what absurdities you plunge your selves into besides the denying of the Scriptures for a perfect Rule of faith and obedience and all other means of working Grace that God hath appointed to that end And in your denying the Authority of Scriptures for a Rule you have weakned the seeming strength of this Text for if it be not a Rule of faith at all then not in this particular thing and then what remains to colour over your main principle save only your private fancies under the pretence of the Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures as if the same Spirit would crosse and contradict it self so notoriously as you have seen and thus by laying another foundation besides what the Apostles preached and practised in the Christian Churches of Christ hath runned you out of all truth which the Scriptures teach and which the Saints in all ages since have professed and witnessed with their dearest blood I confesse the Church of God hath been troubled with men of perverse minds that have forsaken the truth and fomented many of the same erroneous opinions that you center in as universall Redemption universall grace freewill justification by works falling finally from grace yet the Authors of these errors use to be more sober and rationall in their inferences and practises concluded hence then you of this Generation they still urged the use of all out ward helps and advantages as to Christian practice both to God and man according to the rule of the word they professed the word for the rule though upon mistake they were forced to pervert it the opinions being so point-blank against the evident light of Scriptures as hath been made to appear by able pens in all times and places against them But the improvement of the same things as touching your selves is most desperate and Diabolicall talk of a sufficient light and grace in all to be saved and then discourage from the use of Scriptures ministry ordinances of Religious Worship c. bid people mind the light while they do what they can to put it out even that which they have received by the blessing of the Lord in the use of Christian education according to Scriptures as if all that any man receives from the Lord in the use of those means himself hath undoubtedly appointed and commanded were inconsistent to the light within when all impressions of the light of Conscience as it is Divine is attained by the blessing of the Lord in the use of the Scriptures and Scripture ministry as hath been spoke to Then to make this light in all Christ the eternall word the Law of the new Covenant the Spirit of God which was promised to be sent to convince the world of sin c. Who ever fancyed such prodigious blasphemies before now which your papers stink of You have questioned the light of Scriptures the light of Christs person and ministry and Authority you have questioned whether there were a written word of God a person natures and offices of Christ and have upon the matter made that little spark of the light of reason corrupted which is in meer heathens the light of Christ who according to promise is called the light of the Gentiles as if that light which is in all that know not God nor ever heard of Jesus Christ what he is and what he did was the fulfilling of those promises and prophosies What use is there of such promises and prophesies that all in the world have had the performance of from the beginning of the world but the holy Apostles understood those promises fufilled only to those Gentiles that were enlightned by Christs word to believe in his name and to submit to his Lawes revealed such Gentiles only were built upon the Prophets and Apostles Christ the chief corner-stone all others were without Christ Aliens from the Commonwealth of Gods Israel strangers from the Covenant of promise and without hope and without God in the world These things are so plain and have been so cleered against you that you will be left without all excuse if you resist such evident light and be ashamed ever to talk of Scripture more if your Consciences be past feeling that you can oppose the light and Authority of Scripture without fear The truth is you are so intoxicated with this notion of Christ lightning all immediately and so bewitched in your minds touching the manner of working it that you preferre the light common to all in the world and the discoveries thereof to eternall happinesse before all the light of Christ which by his Spirit he hath discovered unto any by the writings of the Prophets and Apostles But without any doubt all this is because you have no light in you I have gone beyond my intended bounds though I have not done my intended work which was to go through all your Answers to my ten Questions but for want of my Papers which you detein from me against your promise and that civility I presumed upon in you when I sent them without keeping a Copy by me as I told you And indeed fearing that I shall be too tedious to the Reader and to my own occasions I have thought good to publish these as judging them necessary not only to forewarn you to flie from the wrath which is to come but also to admonish my friends more timely and to informe those of weaker judgements to prevent their running into these damnable herefies while your selves some of you are compassing the earth to make Proselytes and to seduce them into these snares of Hell below And because I know delusion is very strong when it is inflicted in judgement for former coldnesse out of which I fear your obstinacy in that Gulph of Apostasie that you are involved in will rather prompt you to defend and excuse or deny what I have charged you with and endeavoured to convict you of Therefore though out of the same Spirit you writ to me before you be moved to the same envy malice lying censures railings judgings in your return as I see you want not for impudence to face out any thing to asperse and make odious those that are farre better then my self yet I know that my record is on high that out of the integrity of my heart and measure of light received I have writ what I have published and am resolved to be