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law_n	faith_n	justification_n	work_n	32,098	5	6.7418	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B00623	The peoples plea for the exercise of prophesie. Against Mr. Iohn Yates his monopolie. / By Iohn Robinson.	Robinson, John, 1575?-1625.; Yates, John, d. ca. 1660.; Brewster, William, 1566 or 7-1644, printer, attributed name.	1618 (1618)	STC 21115A; ESTC S94919	38,827	88

is more excellent then tongues because more profitable hee makes us to stammer thus though it be not more excellent yet it is more profitable it being most plaine that the Apostle prefers prophesy before tongues because it tends more to edification of the Church according to vvhich respect alone vve are to measure the excellency of Church ordinances and so to frame the obiect of our desire unto them But vvhat speake I of more excellent and more to edification since the strange tongues as there used vvithout an interpreter were so far from being comparable to ordinary prophesie for any good end or use as they were on the contrary most vaine and ridiculous as appeares v. 11.22.23 That then which hee brings for the commendation of tongues from Actes 2. is nothing for tongues as used in Corinth The former were as of simple necessity in themselues unto the Apostles for the spreading of the Gospell unto all nations so then and there profitably vsed but in Corinth ambitiously and pr-ofanely abused which M. Ya should haue observed but hath not in his comparison Lastly I add as a iust answer to whatsoeuer he hath obiected That tongues confidered in themselues how rightly soeuer vsed are not comparable for vse and so for excellency vnto ordinary prophesying or preaching considered in it self seing that by it as well as by extraordinary saving fayth is wrought Rom. 10. which none can say of strange Tongues in themselues without a strange Tongue both from truth and sence no nor of any other spirituall gift And as it doth not appear by the Apostles preferring of prophesy before tongues that therefore the prophesy was extraordinary so it appeares unto mee by the Corinthians preferring of tongues before it that it was but ordinary therefore disregarded by them in comparison of the extraordinary and miraculous gift of tongues whereas had it also been extraordinary immediate and miraculous most like it would haue carried with it the like with the other or greater regard in their eyes M. Yates ARGVM 6. FROM exemplification vers 6. if I come unto you c. I hope you will grant that the Apostle Paul had all those spirituall gifts and therefore speaking of such prophesy as he had himselfe hee must needs speak of extraordinary likewise he had the knowledge of tongues and yet prefers prophesy before all his languages though hee spake more then they all Now the example in his own person must needs set forth the generall and therefore if in the generall hee should speak of ordinary prophecying in the particular of extraordinary it would prove idle for an example is of the same kind with the generall Againe in bringing four particulars he puts revelation first as the cause of all the rest which shewes plainely he speaks of such prophesy as came by revelation for revelation brings a man to knowledge and knowledge teacheth wholesome doctrine and prophesy serveth to utter it I. Rob. ANSVVER I doe plainely deny the ground upon which he builds the whole weight of his Argument which is that the example and the thing exemplified must be of the same kind How oft doth Christ exemplify the sufferings of his disciples by his own sufferings and the sending of his Apostles by his fathers sending of him were they therfore of the same kind their sufferings meritorious and their sending mediatorious because his was such But amongst other evidences against him wherewith all writings divine and humane are stored see one fitly paring with this in hand The Apostle prouoking the Galathians c. 1 6 unto iust detestation of such as preached another Gospell amongst them takes an example from his own preaching vers 8. But though wee or an Angell from heaven preach another Gospell unto you then that which wee haue preached unto you let him be accursed As if he should say I haue preached unto you formerly iustification by faith without the works of the Law of Moses they now preach unto you iustification by the works of the law ioyned with Christ c. He exemplifieth their preaching by his were they therfore of one kind both Apostolical because Pauls was such It is sufficient for an example if it agree with the thing which it is brought to exemplifie in that for which it is brought And so the cōming of Christ to iudgement is by the Apostle exemplified by the comming of a thiefe in the night 1. Thess 5.2 Are therfore their commings of the same kind or is it not sufficient that being most contrary in their kinds they do yet agree in the adiunct of suddenesse So is it sufficient if Pauls extraordinary Prophesying and the Corinthians ordinary agree in the adiunct or effect of profitablenesse or edification which thing alone the Apostle in his exemplification hath respect unto His observation about Revelation seems true and good in it selfe but shewes not plainely that for which he brings it no nor hath so much as a plaine shew for it For what shew hath it of profe that he speaks of extraordinary prophesie because it comes from revelation except he takes it for granted that there is in the Church no revelation of the spirit for teaching but extraordinary or miraculous which how can I grant or hee affirme Of this more Argum. 8. M. Yates ARG. 7. FROM the fruition of spirituall gifts 1. Cor. 14.26 hath a Psalm that is some admirable praise of God or doctrine that is some worthy point of instruction or a tongue that is can speak misteries with admiration or revelation of some secrets either for doctrine or prediction lastly or interpretation whether of tongues doctrines or Scripture all these must needs bee had either by the ordinary pains of the Church or by the extraordinary gift of the spirit you say by the one and I by the other and that I agree more with the Scripture then your selfe consider but the distinction of the gifts and their admirable matter A Psalm must needs consist of meeter which required art to compose it Secondly it could not for the matter of it but sound forth some worthy praise of God Do you thinke the Corinthians did study the art of musick or likewise read some admirable divine bookes to finde out sweet matter to make their songs of Alas brother giue God the glory it was no doubt some sudden motion of the Spirit that did inflame the hearts of beleevers with some worthy matter of praising God Doctrine that is layd down by our ordinary pains is that which we usually giue unto Doctors which after long study and reading the Scriptures is drawen to some profitable heads pithily proved and contrary errours refuted by it I think in Corinth there were none of these Doctours and yet I doubt not but they were as excellent for such Doctors as delivered these doctrines had them after a more easie manner even the immediate worke of the spirit I hope with out any further dispute you will yeeld that the having of

science is an insight into divers heavenly truths yet wāting that prudent application these two gifts with a fruitful uttrance of them could be no ordinary gifts studied out by their own pains but such as the H. Ghost did immediately inspire into them I should be very glad to heare that your Congregations were full of these wise and understanding men then I doubt not but you would the sooner recall your selues The three next gifts of faith healing and great workes are undoubtedly extraordinary and were never to bee obtained by any study of ours For the foure last I doubt not but you will grant three of them extraordinary Discerning of spirits was not by ordinary means but extraordinary as you may see in Ananias and Saphira Simon Magus and others which were seene by an extraordinary Spirit For strange tongues I hope you will not stand in granting it if you consider but the first originall of them Act. 2.2 ● and for interpretation of these tongues that was as difficult as the other why should you now stick at prophesy which I will plainely shew was more difficult then both the rest For how should either you or I come to be able to prophesy except there were some skilfull in the originall tongues as likewise the helpes of commentaries and interpretations You see God appointed these as means to helpe us to prophesy and where they are wanting it is simply impossible for any man to become an ordinary Prophet Indeed the H. Ghost can supply the want of both these therefore will you nill you it must be granted that this prophesy was extraordinary For take way the ordinary means of prophesy and then the thing it selfe will cease Now you may plainly understād that the Primitiue Chur. had not these means of prophesy that you see we haue they had not the originall tongues translated and therefore God gaue men extraordinary gifts in speaking and interpreting them see then I entreat you how these two means being extraordinary inforce you to yeeld the other of the same nature Were it possible for you to become a Prophet wanting the translation of the new and old Testament as likewise all interpretations with which now through Gods blessing the whole world is replenished I know you will answer and say no then say Prophesy in the Primitiue Church was extraordinary because the Gentiles had not ordinary translations and interpretations of them ANSWER IF I should follow M. Yates in his course I should rather write one Sermon against an other then bring an Answer to an Argument Briefly then as I can omitting other things to that which concerns directly our present purpose His affirmation that the gifts mentioned 1. Cor. 12. are onely extraordinary I doe deny and answer his reasons as followeth And first that contrary to his unreasonable reason we both may ought to magnify the H. Ghost more in one gift then another since the same H. Ghost worketh more excellently and for our good in one gift then in another And secondly as a further truth and more contrary to his strange assertion that in some works of the Spirit though not here expressed in which the Lord useth our industry care he is infinitly more to be magnified then in any whatsoever the immediate and miraculous work of the same spirit wherein he useth it not For example in saving faith and repentance for the working of which by his spirit God useth our careful hearing and meditation of his word the Law and Gospell Thirdly compare we even extraordinary gifts with extraordinary we see that God used the industry and paines of the extraordinary Prophets for the reading and meditating in and of the a Dan. 9.13 Law and of the latter Prophets of the former Prophets b v. 2. writings As also of the Apostles in the c Rom. 4.10 4.3 c. reading knowledg and memory of them both yea even of the very heathen authors whose sayings they sometime quote in their prophesies or d Act. 17.28 1. Cor. 15.33 Tit. 1.12 2. Tim. 4.13 sermons the like industry or care not being required for the gift or use of strange tongues and yet did the Holy Ghost much more excellently utter it selfe in their Prophesies and sermons then in ther tongues as M. Yates oft and truly affirmeth Vpon verse 8. he rightly describeth wisdome a holy vnderstanding of heauenly things with a prudent application of them to their severall vses and knowledge an insight into divers heavenly things yet wanting that prudent application with the fruitfull utterance of them but that these could be no ordinary gifts studyed out by their own payns but such as the Holy Ghost did immediately inspyre into them he barely affirmeth and I thinke singularly but am sure vntruly I maruailed what he would say to these two gifts of wisdom knowledge to proue that they could not be ordinary and did expect some speciall reasons for his so fingular interpretation but behould a bare bone of affirmation brought by him without marrow flesh skin or colour of proofe VVherein he is also the more blame-worthy considering that he cannot be ignorant how the most iudicious both at home and abroad doe vnderstand these two gifts as meant of the two speciall qualifications of the Pastor and Teacher ordinary gifts of ordinary offices of which ministerius amongst the rest ordayned by Christ the one Lord of his Church the Apostle speaketh verse 5. as verse 4. of their gifts by that one spirit VVhich ordinary gifts all lawfull Pastors and Teachers ordinary offices then had and besides them many others not in office and by the grace of God some amongst vs and that by the help of nature study and prayer and the blessing of Gods spirit therevpon VVhich blessing of God I will not deny to haue then been for degree extraordinary vpon mens weaker indeuoures for their furnishing with these ordinary gifts which makes nothing against our purpose That the gift of faith is undoubtedly extraordinary is sayd by him but Doctors haue doubted of it See for one Beza in his great Annotations vpō the words both affirming and proueing that by faith is meant an assent vnto the doctrine propounded which is an ordinary gift of the spirit VVhere he makes no doubt but wee will grant that three of the foure last were extraordinary he but threaps kindnesse upon us as we use to say That Peters gift of discerning was extraordinary in the case of Ananias Act 〈…〉 we confesse but not so in the case of Simon Magus Acts. 8. of whom he iudgeth by his words as of the tree by the fruit in which he did notoriously bewray himselfe to be in the gall of bitternesse to the discerning of any ordinary Christian The gift of discerning both of doctrine and manners is in a measure required of every Christian Phil. 1.9.10 1. Ioh. 4.1 Heb. 5.14 but is bestowed by the giver thereof upon some more liberally sometimes extraordinarily as

wherof himself is in his first argument to wit that his cōmission Apostolick was actually conferred upon him ioyntly with the rest Iohn 20.22.23 1. Now if the Commission Apostolike were but then given they were but then and not before actually Apostles except he will say they were Apostles before they had commission that is calling frō Christ so to bee I would now see how hee can salue the wound which he hath giuen himselfe 2. After that the Lord Iesus had Mat. 11.11 preferred Iohn Baptist aboue all the Prophets which were before him he yet ads in the same place that the least in the Kingdom of heauen is greater then hee The least i. the least Minister In the kingdom of heauen i. in the Church of the new testament properly called which began not till after the death of Christ who liued and dyed a member of the Iewish Church The Apostles then being officers of the Church of the new testament and Kingdome of heauen and not of the old or Iewish Church it cannot bee that they were Apostles in act before Christs death except an adiunct can be before the subiect and an officer before the corporation in and of which he is an officer 3. Considering the ignorance of these disciples at that time in the main misteries of Christ of the nature of his kingdom his death and resurrection Math 20.21 Luke 24.20.21 c. Iohn 20.9 Mark 16.14 as also how vtterly vnfurnished they were of gifts befitting Apostolicall teaching for which as being an extraordinary dispensation that in the highest degree extraordinary and infallible reuelation and direction of the spirit was requisite wherewith they were but first as it seemeth sprinckled Iohn 20.22 and afterwards more plentifully filled at the day of Pentecost they were as fit for an Apostleship as Dauid was for Sauls armour which he could not weild nor go with 4. Besides if they had the office of Apostleship committed to them Math. 10. how was it that they continued not their ministration in that office but returneing after a few dayes to their master Christ continued with him as his disciples till his death Christ Iesus did not keepe a company of non-residents about him for his Chaplins as M. Yates insinuates against him Lastly we are expresly taught Eph. 4.8 11. When Christ ascended on high hee gaue gifts unto men Apostles Prophets c. The Apostles then were first given actually at the Lords ascension and vvere before onely designed to become Apostles or Apostles elect but not ordained nor possessed of any office and therefore preached and that vvith warrant from Christ without office The next Scripture is Luk. 8.39 by M. Yates thus opened Christ having delivered the man possessed bids him go and shew what great things God had done for him and it is sayd he went and preached that is if it be to their purpose by ordinary pains and study he preached the Gospel And with pitty upon us poore soules that cannot distinguish the publishing of a miracle and the gift hee should say the worke if hee distinguished as he ought of preaching he addeth that if Christ had minded to haue made him a publike preacher hee would first haue taken him with him and instructed him and then haue sent him abroad First let it be obserued that the word used by Mark for his preaching 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same word which is commonly used for the most solemne preaching that is by the Apostles and Evangelists Secondly Christ bids him Mark 5.19 Goe home and declare how great things the Lord had done for him and had had compassion on him and v. 20. he is said to haue published in Decapolis Luke hath it throughout the whole Citty how great things Iesus had done for him VVhich he doing what else did hee but preach publish and declare the great loue and mercy of God in and by Iesus Christ towards miserable sinners for the curing of their bodily and spiritual maladies Thirdly where he makes the publishing of this miracle and the preaching of the Gospell divers things and pitties us poore soules that we cannot distinguish between them as Christ bad the women of Ierusalem not to weep for him but for themselues so surely had he need to pitty not us herein but himselfe in his so great mistaking Are not the miracles of Christ storied in the Scriptures a maine part of the Gospell and the publishing of them a part of the preaching of the Gospell And when M. Yates opens and publishes a miracle of Christs as this man did doth he not as well and as truely preach the Gospell as at any other time Let the wise iudge who is to be pittied To shut up this poynt it is sayd Ioh. 20.30 that Iesus did many other signes c. and v. 31. But these are written that yee might beleeue that Iesus is the Christ the Sonne of God and that beleeving yee might haue life through his name The publishing then of the signes and miracles which Christ did is the preaching of faith in his name to salvation which this man therefore did especially amongst them which were not ignorant of the Law of Moses and promise of the Messiah to come which by his glorious miracles done by his own power and in his owne name he both declared and proved himselfe to be Ioh. 5.36 10.37.38 And where he ads that Christ gaue this man commission to doe that which he did but he admires who gaue ours any such authority I answer even the same Christ as then immediatly so now mediatly by those unto whom he hath given authority under himselfe for the ordering of the gifts of his spirit in his Church And sufficient it is for the question between him and me if it appeare as in this person that Christ hath given commission to men out of office by an ordinary gift to publish and preach in publick the the Gospel of salvation I doe quote next in my booke Luk. 10.1 9. which for that W.E. omitteth and leaues out M. Yates thanketh God but in truth hee hath more cause to thanke him for sparing him in a place which so pregnantly proveth the preaching of the kingdom of God by men out of office except hee can assigne some new found office and the same but of two or three dayes lasting as v. 17. to those 70 there sent VVe are in the next place to come unto Ioh. 4.28.29.39 which hee openeth and answereth with admiration as the former place withpitty and compassion on this manner O simplicity with contradiction to his own writing Simplicity that cannot see bttween preaching of the Gospell and carrying tydings of a man that told her to wit the woman of Samaria of al things that ever she did is not this sayth she the Christ But besides simplicity here is contradiction for sayes M. Robinson and that truely a woman is not suffered to exercise an ordinary gift of prophesie in the Church and shall