there is no smal number in England from the familiaritie of the Prince expel them thrust them out by proclamatiōs force them to flee out of the Realme As for me that am so farre of there is no cause whie ye should be greatly careful for so much as it can not be suspected that I shoulde take awaie from you your gaines after which as you shew your selfe you gape so greedilie But by your pacience Sir me thinketh ye are of nature very base and abiecte that for so meane a promotion take so great stomake and courage If ye can not beare so meane a condition but that you must needes in respecte of your office laie vnto me the name of a priuate man what would you doe if you were called to some higher degree of worshippe You saie that I do goe about to appaire the estimation of lawes wheras in deede I doe thinke that the good estate of a common weale standeth and is mainteined by lawes and am hartily sorie that through these pestilēt sectes al good lawes customes and ordinaunces are fallen to ruine and decaie You saie that I appeache all the whole Realme of England I can not tel of what hateful newfanglednes the whiche is also false For I haue heard of credible personnes that the greatest part of that Iland doe continue in the Olde Religion Now wheras you require of me to beare with you bicause you haue talked somewhat freelie with me as being an English mā fostred and brought vp of the Queenes Maiestie and of the affaires of England not ignorant I commend your loue towardes your countrie I commend your loyaltie towards your Prince I cōmend your knowlege of things gotten by long experience I cōmend also your freedom in speache But beware you doe not so muche as in you lieth ouerthrow your Countrie beware you bring not the Quene into daunger of her estate and life and when you are pricked and yearked foorth with the goades of your owne madnes beware you cloke not your erroneous beleefe and licentious life vnder the honest name of libertie Ye promise assuredly that you meane to doe it for no debate or dissension of minde whereas there can not be deuised any greater dissension then this you taking vpon you to mainteine and I contrariwise to inuey against the most wicked and heinouse malefactours of the worlde And where you saie that your purpose is to pul out of mens heartes certaine false opinions that they haue cōceiued of the state of England if you can so doe you shal doe me a verie friendly pleasure But this one thing I meruaile much at that you say that my writings might happē to cause this false rumor and infamie that is now bruted of England What say you Sir Are you only ignoraunt how long time it is sence England was firste charged with this infamouse report How was it possible when the holie men Iohn Fisher Bishop of Rochester and S. Thomas More were openly put to death for their constancie in their faith and Religion when the good Religiouse Fathers the Carthusians were with most cruel tormentes slaine and murdred when the houses of Religion in the whiche was appointed a mansion or dwelling place of perpetual chastitie were laid wide open and turned to prophane vses when many other momentes of holines were vtterly ouerthrowen and defaced how was it possible I saie that England shoulde be without a very exceding greate infamie But without cause saie you Be it so if it please you for I wil not as yet dispute for either part Yet this muche I saie that euen at that time there was a great brand of dishonestie burnt into the estimation of English men But you forsooth that shoulde haue defended al those thinges with maine pollicie and counsel were not yet come to beare the swaie and therfore the matter being destitute of such a spokesman as you are that opinion that was by the constant reporte and brute of al men diuulged tooke place in al the Realmes of Christendome How is it then true that I should caus◠this infamie which is so olde by my writinges set out but the last daie You commend my kinde of writing the which is more then I requir◠of you For that I vse in matters we knowen words not necessarie as yo◠thinke you reproue me But your reproch I am nothing offended withal for my desire is to talke of thinges mo◠clere and plaine and what were to b◠put into my Oration and what to be put out I thinke it dependeth of my iudgement and not of yours whiche peraduenture knowe not what my meaning is You saie that whereas I pretended in the beginning to doe some other thing I fel at the length to taunting and defacing of Religion That is trew in deede if most vile and seditions heresie may be called Religion You say that it is to no purpose for me to goe about to discharge manie Inglish men of the enuie of the facte for that as you saie their case and cause is al one And to proue that you declare the manner of England to be such that no law bindeth the people there vnlesse it be first decreed by the whole communaltie receiued of the nobilitie approued by the Clergie and last of al authorised by the King and therfore can not stand that a lawe being made by the ful consent and agreemēt of al some men should susteine blame and some others should be altogether void thereof The law I like wel But that it is not kept I thīke itmuch to be misliked If the geuing of voices were free and not wrested and gotten out frō men by threatning and punishmēt I would like your saing wel But here to passe ouer with silence the lightnes and inconstancie of the multitude which may verie easilie be brought to any incōuenience either with the hatred of seueritie either with the shew of gentlenes and withal to leaue that point vntouched howe it is a thing impossible for euerie particular man to geaue his voice but of force they must geue ouer their authoritie of geuing voices vnto a few I would you would teach me this one thing for I confesse plainely that I am a straunger and nothing expert in matters of your cōmō weale what horrible fact had the bishop of Rochester cōmitted that neither the grauitie of his person neither the dignitie of a Bishop could saue him from death Went he about anie treason against his coūtrey Had he conspired the death of the Prince Had he entred into talke with foraine ennemies to betraie his owne common weale Nothing lesse But bicause he most constantlie refused to yeeld his consent vnto a wicked statute the holie and innocent man was so punished as though he had ben the most detestable traitour in the worlde What had Thomas More committed a verie good man and excellentlie well learned Had he forged the Kinges letters patentes ▪ Had he embeseled the Kinges treasure Had he kylled
trust no more to fraude deceit and lying For it is like that hauiÌ„g receiued the brightnes of heauenly light ye dispised foorth with al worldly thinges and were inflamed with the desire of heauenlie life yea and that more is of the diuine nature it selfe Who caÌ„ deny if this be so but that so wonderful an alteration of life doth most manifestly declare the verie presence of Christ him selfe But I would faine learne this of you whether you alone in al England doe enioye these so great benefites or whether thei be common to al suche as haue receiued the brightnes of your new gospel If you alone haue the fruitioÌ„ of this light with so great fruict of the heaueÌ„lâ— vertue the glittering of this newe gospel hath brought no great commoditie to your couÌ„trei for it should haue furdered not any one particular maÌ„ but the whole coÌ„mon weale Oh say you euerie one for as the sonne rising driueth awaie the darkenes from the eyes of al men euen so the brightnes of this gospel putteth awaie the myste that was cast ouer all mens heartes Al thinges are now laid open al thinges are come to light Ther are no faultes in the worlde no wicked offences no heinouse crimes no none at al. Ther is great good cause if this tale be true whie we should forsake our owne countrei and come to dwel in EnglaÌ„d that we might be partakers of this your felicitie with you For what could a man desire more of God then alwaies to behold suche a countrei where for the greater part neither coueteousnes norsensualitie nor hatred nor pride nor contention nor rashnes nor any other spot of vncleane life may take place But Sir I praie you What was the let whie you vsed no iustice or godlines before this new sonne beames shone vpon you Horrible superstition you saie for we beleeued that through the vertue of a peece of lead and the mumbling of a few praiers whiche we vnderstoode not al our offences were forgeauen vs what soeuer we had done in this worlde What saie you is it to be thought you were al so mad that you wolde thinke a sinne conceiued in the hart to be forgeauen through the vertue of a peece of lead or by the pronouncing of praiers the mind being otherwise occupied What a great dulnes of witte was that what a straunge folie who had put that errour into your hartes Were there no men emongest you learned in the holie scriptures to teach you that al the hope of saluation consisteth in the grace and mercie of Christ Trulie I hold vp my handes most humbly vnto the immortal God as you pretend to doe yeelding him most hartie thaÌ„kes that it was my chaunce to be borne and brought vp in Spaigne where no man if he be a Christian was euer so foolish as to thinke that there is any other waie to pourge synne but only by the grace and goodnes of Christ The which to atteine the necessarie and onely meane is according to the doctrine of Christ him selfe to detest and forsake vice to confesse our sinnes coÌ„mitted with bashfulnes and sorow to withdraw our selues froÌ„ sensualitie to coÌ„tinencie froÌ„ vice to honestie froÌ„ malice to charitie to enter into a new trade of life and to exercise our selues in holy workes Now sir of you trusted so much to lead that ye thought it of force to blot out sinne you were not wel in your wit If you saie that al England was in the like blindnes you bring a great slaunder of madnes vpon your countrie that hath brought you vp and placed you in so great worship No say you I saie not so But I meane by the name of lead in the whiche we saw the name and image of the bishop of Rome engraued the authoritie and iurisdiction of the Pope him selâ—e the which manie hundred yeres agoe was holden and esteemed as a thing verie holie of our Fathers and afterward of vs. This authoritie which we sometime reuerenced being now instructed by the most cleere doctrine of this gospel I doe neglecte despise contemne and thinke it to be esteemed as a thing of naught of all wise men Whie then M. Haddon what needed you the name of lead to signifie this authoritie Did you it to make it more odiouse Or rather thought you by iesting at the woord to gette the greater applause of your compagnions For I knowe that pleasaunt sporters as you be are muche delighted with iesting and like to contend not so much with argumentes and sentences as with scoâ—fing and as it seemeth to me with an vnsauerie kind of pratling In suche like scoffes and tauntes Martine Luther your youthlie Patriarke and olde wanton was a great doer And I dowbt not but some of your clawebackes when he came to this place tooke vp a great laughter and bound it with an oth that it was meruelous pleasauntly spoken and excellently wel handled For al thinges are so farre out of course and dew order that it is a verie easie matter for a sawcie reprochful scoffer to get the name of a merie felowe and pleasaunt compagnion But as concerning this matter although the Bishop of Angra hath disputed verie learnedly of the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome yet wil I reason with you as with a seculare man and ciuilian of the said matter in few wordes First of al let this be a grounde worke or foundation The Church of Christ is one and not manie Then let this be agreed vppon It is not ynough for a Prince whiche maketh lawes to establish a common weale to set them out except he also appoint gouernours and inferiour magistrates Let this also be the third ground for so much as you like wel myne opinion as touching the order of a Monarchie that it is most expedient for a common Weale well appointed with customes and lawes to be vnder the rule of one Prince For many doe teare and dismembre a coÌ„mon weale but one by supreme authoritie vniteth and as it were with glew ioineth together the heartes of the people It was therfore most agreable to the best maner of gouernement when the Prince of al Princes vnder whose euerlasting Empire are subiected both heauen and earth intended to set vp a heauenlie coÌ„mon weale in earth that he should first make Lawes and then creat Princes and Magistrates which might according to the prescribed order of Lawes and equitie rule this common weale Suche were the Apostles and the rest of the Disciples of Christe Last of al lest the band of this societie might be dissolued and the peace of the Citie distourbed he appointed a Monarchie and gaue the supreme gouernement thereof vnto Peter Are not these thinges commonly knowen of all men Ymagine you to obscure and darken thinges most clearely spoken Trust you so muche to your malice that you thinke your selfe able to wrest the wordes of the Gospell from the true meaning to serue the filthie appetite and lust of
of Luther As though the minde of Luther did not yet liue in al suche as folowe his doctrine You cal the same Luther the man of God I knowe not what you are M. Haddon But if it were lawful to esteeme by coniecture what maner of man you are I see no cause why I should greatly commend either your witte or your life ▪ for he that geaueth the testimonie of diuine vertue or heauenlie cōuersation to a most filthie and infamous personne we may worthely suspecte that he is him selfe subiecte vnto the like vices Your woordes are these This man of God whome you reprochefully call a mad man in open assemble before Charles the fifte gaue a sobre and sownd account of his faith That is false You might better saie that in the presence of the Emperour him selfe he most impudently betraied his owne madnes And that he was not punished for so doing it was bicause he had receiued before hand the Emperours safe conduicte for his indemnitie in case he spake anie thing not agreable to holie religion You saie This madde man stoode fast and in safetie thirtie yeares in spite of all the politike and wise patrones of your Church were they neuer so madly bent to make him out of the waie In these wordes you doe not defende Luther but you reioise and triūph at the ruine of the Church I knowe that the outrage of Luther hath ben fortified and mainteined by the aide of Princes and by the furie of the common people and I confesse that it hath so come to passe for our synnes For as God in the old time to punish the synnes of his people styrred vp ennemies against them minding by punishment and plagues to bring them backe to honest ciuilitie and godlie religiō euen so in ou◠time hath he suffred Luther and permitted his madnes to be bolstered and borne out by the helpe of manie men meaning by plagues of his wisedome appointed to cal vs home againe to the feruēt loue and folowing of true godlines But wheras you saie that Luther stoode fast and in safetie surely you know not wherin safetie standeth if you be of that mind that it is rather a miserie to be pounished for synne then to liue in synne Furthermore the patrones of the Church as it liketh you to call them perced him thorough with their writinges and set out his name to all the posteritie dishonested with the fowle spottes of his most heinouse and filthie life As for the thirtie yeares in the which you boast he stoode so faste you neede bragge no more For the name of Mahumete which hath cōtinnued aboue nine hundred yeares remaineth yet in verie greate honour and estimation emongest suche men as doe followe that wicked and detestable secte But Erasmus saie you geaueth vnto this madde man a singular good testimonie of innocencie by these wordes The doctrine of Luther manie men mislike but his life they doe with one voice allow I doe not so much esteme Erasmus that I thinke my selfe bounde to set my hand to his testimoniall in all matters And yet I know that Erasmus wrote against Luther how beit not so earnestly as the cause required For he feared the furious and reprochfull talke of the felow You accuse me for saing that Luther was Popular and withall you demaunde of me what I meane by the worde Popular I wil do soo much for you that you maie vnderstād how fitly the worde maie be applied to Luther They were sometimes called Popular which sought the common profitte of the people and endeuoured them selues by strength and diligence to rescue the impotent and poore men when wrong was offered them by such as were of greater force and power This name therfore was in those daies much estemed and highly commended Now whereas it is the propertie of flatterie to counterfaicte vertue and vnder the pretensed coulour of honestie and gentlenes priuily to creepe into the hartes of the simple people the craftie and malitiouse felowes whose only bent was to attein to honour perceiuing that suche as were Popular were in greatest estimation emongest the people and by common agreement promoted to the highest romes of honour endeuoured them selues to seeme Popular And these men considered verie curiously not what was in dede good and profitable for the people but what they liked and longed most after as profitable vnto them And as it fareth now a daies with manie seruitours in court that hunte after the fauour of Kinges they spie out diligently not what stādeth most with the kinges profite and honour but what they most couet what they loue and what they would fainest bring to passe seruing only their vnlawfull pleasure and vnruled affection euen so emongest free peoples did those men whome we cal popular the Grecians called them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to witte leaders of the people they applied them selues not to the profitte but to the pleasure of the people For the profitte of the people consisteth in a good and discrete moderation of thinges but through inordinate greedines of the thing that they lust after and through the name of libertie it is brought to naught The common people enuied such as were men of power These Populares made lawes by the whiche they were either depriued of their goods or bannished out of their coūtrie or put to death The people could not awaie with seueritie of lawes The lawes therfore that seemed any thing streight in restreining the vnbridled affections of the people the Populares tooke quite awaie The people hated vertue bicause they sawe it stoode directely against their vntamed outrages the Populares with their decrees and ordinaunces dispatched all vertue out of their common weales and so by the meanes of these Populares the people might without cōtrol or check doe what them listed But to cōclude such as came to honor by this meanes serued the filthie lust the vicious desire the vncleane affectiō and the furiouse rage of the base people and did so beare them selues in euerie office that it might ful wel appere that they were no free men but the verie bondslaues of the vndiscret and mad peple And the better to bring this matter to passe they marked verie diligētly not only what the people longed for but also whome they enuied at for wealth and richesse and so brought al men of power and richesse to be enuied styrred vp the most earnest hatred of the commons against their Princes set fire vnto the hote rage of the multitude therwith to cōsume and wast al such as were in high authoritie and honour in their cōmon weales But how did they profit the peple Ful wel I warrāt you For euen those thinges that the peple most thirstily gaped after were vtterli ouerthowē For wheras the nature of the peple is such that thei cā not beare to much welth and prosperity hauing once atteined the libertie whiche they so much wished for they fal together by the
by the faith of holie men shoulde be discredited by reason of a new gospel deuised bi the wit of a sort of filthy varlets Is it not a consequent as we now see it fal out euery where that there arise a nomber of religions of diuersse â—ortes all vngodlye and naught yea and iarring within them selues That they arise one against an other That euerie one of them disprooue the folie of others That neuer a one of them being able to mainteine it selfe by grownded reason and stroÌ„g argument they come all at the length to be despised and set at naught By these steppes or degrees are meÌ„ come to that point at the length that manie a one raiseth vp the damned sprites of Arius Sabellius and other most detestable heretikes from holl â–ª and reneweth their errours whiche were before buried some others thinke that there is no Religion true it all and perswade them selues that the worlde is not gouerned by God This fruicte haue the brochers of your newly deuised and fresh tapped gospel brought into common weales that â—uerie man maie professe him selfe â–ª to â—e a setter vp of a newe Religion and â—ake vp the sweard against all other â—hat are deuisers of the like pestilent â—ectes whereby it is like at the length â—hat al order of ReligioÌ„ maie be taken quite awaie O what bountifull and â—rofitable felowes are these whiche â—aue so woorthely prepared a waie to â—l mischiefe and vngodlines And yet you asked me what came â—to my head to affirme that these â—ectes are daungerous and hurtful vnto Princes Tel me sir I praie you such as â—aue presumed to doe so great villaâ—iâ— as to ouerthrowe the wonderful example of chast and cleane life to deface al monumentes of religioÌ„ and holines to burne the holie CanoÌ„s or rules of the Church openly at a sermon to rase the state of the church with their weapons where they might be suffred to doe it to bring the people to hate the lawe and so to plaie outragious and mad partes to despise all lawfull authoritie to set God and al godlie order at naught to fil the Churches and chapples of religious men with bloud to egge and allure the simple people through the hope of to much libertie to take vp armour think you not that these felowes when so euer they shal finde occasion will tourne the selfe same furie and rage vpâ—n the Princes them selues Is it not wel knowen as it is saâ—ed before what they haue wrought and practised against the emperour in Germanie against the estate and life of King Henrie in Fraunce against Edward whome they made awaie with poison and afterwarde against Quene Marie in England Is it not knowen how traiterously and furiously they bent them selues against the maiestie of these Princes What shal I here saie of the King of ScotlaÌ„d whome the worlde knoweth to haue ben most crewelly murdered What Haue they not wrought the like treason against many other Princes also I leaue out a number of examples of this barbarous villanie whiche I could here recite And although there were none suche yet woulde I not dowbt to saie so much as I haue saied For it is not the part of a wise man â–ª when he seeth the cawse to dowbt of the euent whiche foloweth necessarily of the cawse For when I see the common people void of feare vnrulie and fearce through a pretensed name of libertie outragiousely following their owne vnbridled wil and plesure haughtely flingyng vp and down bearing them selues vppon a false opinion of Religion maie I dowbte but that they are most spitefully bent against al authorititie wherby they thinke that their libertie which they so griedely long after maie be hindered These are the thinges M. Haddon these are the thinges that doe dishonest Religion and not those matters which you speake of For what is more comely and honest then to obey such authoritie as is ordeined by God To dread and feare the iudgemeÌ„t of God Reuerently to consider the mercie of God in them whome he first trieth by dewe punishment and so admitteth them into life euerlasting To call to mind the monumentes of iustice godlines and holines To yeld vp humble praiers vnto God in the most holie sacrifices for the good estate of the liuing and for the saluation of the dead But in the meane time while you dowbte not to saie â–ª that these most godlie orders are the thinges that doe dishonest religioÌ„ you marke not how great the dishonestie of your religioÌ„ is For that I maie saie nothing â—ls can there be anie greater dishonestie of religion then that all Sacramentes and ceremonies al decrees and ordinaunces of the Churche al priesthood and holie orders shoulde be vnder the rule and gouernement of a woman I meane not hereby to disgrace your Queene whome I desire to see so beawtified and fournished with most excellent vertues that her name maie remaine as a thing of holie remembraunce vnto all the posteritie Neither doe I so muche blame her as you whiche haue by your flatterie brought her to this inconuenience that she taketh her selfe to be gouernesse of the Churche Tel me sir if it like you where haue you readde that euer anie Prince tooke vpon him the office or charge of the high Bishoppe No rather all suche Princes as loued godlines and iustice whose name is for their noble actes set out to the posteritie for euer did reuerence the iudgemeÌ„t of Priestes refused not to be obedient vnto Bishoppes and thought like verie wise men that it would tourne to their euerlasting commendation if they were gouerned by them So did your great CoÌ„stantine the most woorthie ornameÌ„t and beawty of your IlaÌ„d so did our Theodosius so did Lewis King of Fraunce so did a number of others which with most noble victories enlarged their Empiere verie farre when they had subdewed al countreis with armour they did so obey the decrees and ordinaunces of Bishops that they seemed to glorie not so much in their Empire as in that obedieÌ„ce But you haue brought al holie thinges not only vnder a king which as I shewed before were to be esteemed as a most heinous offeÌ„ce but also vnder a quene against all right and reason against the inuiolable reuerence of most pure religion against the ordinaunces of almightie God you haue taken awaye the most holy dignity of the high bisshoprike from the lawful bishops and haue transposed it to be administred by a woman The which I say was a most wicked deede a most barbarouse acte a most detestable and cursed offence Whereby it may be gathered that mans heart can imagine no mischiefe so horrible and diuellish that these flatterers wil not take vpoÌ„ them to practise it with desperate boldnesse and impudencie Here do I passe ouer many thinges and vnto the railing words which you heape together against me I answere you nothing for in deede I regard them not Neither is it my meaning to confute your railing wordes
you spend in the studie of Diuinitie being a maÌ„ alwaies coÌ„uersant in the law court and hindered with many affaires And so me thinketh that you are not so muche to be blamed as your maisters the whiche haue nouseled you in so mani errours How be it you are also to be blamed for two points The first is lightnes for that you haue so lightly geuen credite to naughty meÌ„ The other is impudeÌ„cy for that you haue so rashly auouched thinges that you neuer read Tel me I pray you where haue you read that Gregorie did abandone this supreame dignitie of the B. of Rome And yet you put it in your oratioÌ„ affirming it ful stoutly and are neuer a whit ashamed of your lying At the length you conclude thus Wherfore if the best state of the church was without this Monarchy may also lack it ful wel yea we ought to lacke it not only bicause it is expressely forbidden by the Gospel but also bicause it standeth wel with reason What a rashnes and impudencie is this in you to conclude an Argument after this sorte without al reason You must bring in your conclusion vpon thinges that are true knowen and agreed vppon not vppon thinges that are false and not graunted If you be ignorant in this you are a very dolt if you know it and yet will goe about to conclude your argument vpon false propositioÌ„s without any proufe going before you are to be taken as a very shamelesse sophister For emongest the guyles and subtilties which the babling sophisters are wonte to vse this is accounted for one of the first to goe aboute to conclude what them listeth vppon thinges that are not true neither graunted neither agreed vppon If the best state of the Church saie you was without this Monarchie we may also lacke it full well What if the best state of the Churche was neuer without this Monarchie may you then lacke it I thinke not If it be then proued by writinges and records yea and by the ful agreement of al the holy Fathers that the best state of the Church was neuer without this Monarchie if you are able neither to coÌ„fute the authorities neither to make any good proufe for your selfe neither to bring any sure ground of antiquitie but only in bare wordes to saie what ye list doe you not see that all youâ— talke is fainte and weake and that it is pitifully shaken and battred of it selfe without gonneshotte And yet as though you had already contriued the whol matter according to your hearts desire you say moreouer Yea we ought to lâ—okd it How proue you that it is of duâ—tie What fruict can you shew of this your wicked rebellion What light haue you shewed to the worlde by this your outrage and madnesse so wonderfull that you may wel say that you haue discharged your duetie and office commendably Nowe whereas you say that the Gospel forbiddeth it expresly you declare the verie true cause of all your doinges For it seemeth that you are minded to doe that onely that the Gospell of Christe forbiddeth you to doe How be it you woulde not saie so but rather that you do by the warrant of the Gospel refuse the authority of the B. of Rome Suche is your eloquence that you are not able marlie times to vtter your owne meaning But by what testimonie of the Gospel by what authority haue you proued it Bring foorth the place presse vs with the wordes coÌ„uince vs with the commaundement shew where the Gospel hath forbidden not darkely but by expresse and plaine words that we shuld not acknowledge any one man as the high Vicare of Christ in the earth You saie moreouer that it standeth with reason whereas you neuer shewed before how reason and this your lewdnes may stande together And yet as though you had moste plainely and inuincibly proued the matter you do not only coÌ„clude veri much besides the purpose but also vauÌ„t your self beyond al modestie Some il hap come to that felow your Schoolemaister that brought you vp so il It is like he toke vpon him to make you eloquent and he made you not only a babe but also an vntoward and a 〈…〉 Wherfore I would geue you 〈◊〉 to take an action against him to make him repaie his waiges that he tooke of you For you bestowed your time very il with him the which might haue ben better spent in drawing out writes and processes in the Law But let vs see what reason you bring You saie Neither can the head so far froÌ„ the meÌ„bers disagree coÌ„ueniently What are you yet to learne to speake Latine What meane you by this What is to disagree conuenientlie For the thing that is in it selfe conuenient is nothing disagreeable Whereas you saie therfore that a thing doth disagree conueniently you speake not pure and cleane Latine but you vse a monstruouse kinde of Latine speache For this cause I am not ashamed to confesse so often that I doe not vnderstand what you saie I suspect you would saie in this place that it is not possible that the heade should 〈◊〉 be ioyned vnto the members being so farre a sunder If you say so you are much deceiued if you beleue that the coÌ„iunction of the church consisteth in the nighnes of places and not in the consent of faith and agreement in one Religion But if you doe comprise vnder this disordered kinde of speach some other more secret mysterie When you haue exponnded your self then peraduenture I wil answere you You say afterward Especially for somuch as this Monarchie or only soueraintie for the which you laboure so much we haue it at hand at home with vs in Englande so that we neede not to seeke it abroad It is not my part to rehearse al your woordes after you like a childe But I will aske you this one thing what only power or souerainty is that We haue say you the absolute authoritie of a Kinges Maiestie wherein is conteined fully and wholly the Princelie estate of our common weale What would you also that the supreme authoritie of the Church should be subiect vnto this Kingly Maiestie as you saie For no man euer said that your common weale ought to be gouerned by the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome in matters coÌ„cerning the state of your ciuile affaires but only that the Churche of Englande can not refuse by any means without great offence the authority of the Bishop of Rome For this doe we contend and as you saie labour so earnestly This is that which you saie is nothing necessarie for so much as the Kinges Maiestie hath an absolute authoritie emongest you and therefore you neede not seeke any other abroad You say therfore expressely that your Quene doth rightfully take vpon her the gouernement of Englande in spiritual matters And the more hardelie to presse me therewithal you reason with me after this forte But surely this seemeth vnto you a thing not to be borne
And in this place you are so chaused that you laie Sacrilege vnto Princes charges bicause thei wil rule the lawes of the Church â–ª and vnreuerently handle holy thinges Anon after you counsell me like a sage and graue man that I shoulde tempre my choler saying vnto mee O Maister Ierome be not ouer much disquieted Such great choler and wrath is not seemely in a Philosopher In this place M. Waulter if you dally you dally very stalely If you speake in earnest it is nothing true that you saie Neither was it angre whiche is a sodaine rage stirred through the opinion conceiued of dishonestie that could haue moued me to write those my letters for so muche as I was neuer prouoked to displeasure with so much as one rough worde of any English man but it was the loue of most holy Religion and the good wil I beare towards the Quene that moued me to send those letters and to aduertise her to eschew the danger that hanged ouer her and her Realme Neither is there any token of anger to be seene in my talke excepte you will cal a iust and lamentable complaint of the state of our moste vnhappie time angre But that that foloweth howe pretily it was spoken Take breath a little As thoughe you had with this your wonderfull force of talke so disquieted me that I coulde not take my breath Then that other saying of yours what a pleasante grace it hath Come to your selfe againe This is a foule rebuke For it seemeth to M. Haddon a wise man whose iudgement was alwaies simple pure and vncorrupted that I am out of my wittes Or els he would neuer warne me to come to my selfe againe You saie afterwardes You shall see all shal be wel That do I loke for in dedâ— how be it I am sore afraid left you being an eloquence man and wonderfull in perswading â–ª may force me to beleue thinges that are not proued vnto me Yet I looke for your reason by the which you wil proue that it is lawfull for your Quene to meddle in Ecclesiastical matters and to laiâ— suche lawes vpon Churches as her listeth What saie you Sir The Kinges Maiestie saie you maistereth al persones in England What els So doth the French King the French men and the Scottish King the Scottes I commend your briefenes in reasoning For you conclude al in one worde as often as you list and that meruelouse wittily But yet you take such thinges as are neither true neither of force to conclude those thinges that you would proue For first of all the gouernement of a King is not violent neither tyrannical and suche as he hath taken vppon him to mainteine â–ª like a louing Father he doth not maister them like seruauÌ„ts neither doth he imploye his regimente to his owne commoditie but to the safety of his subiectes It is therefore false that he doth maister them except he wold rather be accounted a tyranne then a King Moreouer admit it were true yet doth it not folow that he doth gouerne them in al matters That therefore that you should haue proued you laiâ— for a ground as though it were alredy proued and grauÌ„ted the which is one of the gretest faults that mai be in a disputer Last of al neither doth the french King gouerne the french men in spiritual matters neither the Scotish Kinge the Scottes and if he doe the which is nothiÌ„g true then doth he not his owne office but vsurpeth an other mans Yet you say But the Quene putteth not her hand vnto holie thinges Why so I pray you M Haddon Is it bicause she thinketh it not lawful Or els bicause she wil not If she thinke that it is not lawfull then doth shee speake directely against you If she be occupied with other affairs and therfore committeth holie thinges to men of the basest sort shee doth otherwise then her estate requireth For she thinketh that there is some other thing to be preferred before holie things You say The ciuile affaires are coÌ„mitted to the ciuile magistrates the Church matters to the Bishops What Bishops meane you Are they those Bishops that you haue violeÌ„tly thrust out of their Bishopriks and cast into the iayles or els are they suche as you haue caught vppe in the streates and froÌ„ the alebeÌ„ches and haue placed theÌ„ in the roome of those most holibishops O what an honorable presence of Bishops is that for all subiects to reuerence and al il men to be afraid of But I would faine learne of you what goodly glosse of vertue was that that moued you to place those base felowes in this roome and dignitie Was it their meruelouse and chast life which you can not abide Was it the knowledge of holie Scriptures the which thei had learned in tauernes or in scholes where perhappes they had ben Maisters Was it their wonderful eloquence where with thei were able to withdrawe the coÌ„mon people from licentious liuing to continency which they them selues abhorre For it is to be thought that they that depriued those godlie and learned Bishoppes of al their dignities would not haue done such wrong vnto the vertuous men vnlesse they had meant to set other in their places that did very farre excede them in all godlines learning and eloquence But I wold demauÌ„d one thing of you if they be so holi so lerned and so eloqueÌ„t wherfore did you not coÌ„mit vnto them aboue all other this care and charge to write against me Wherfore would you betray to the worlde your owne ignoaaÌ„ce and babishnâ—sse Was there suche a scarcity of learned Bisshops that you must needes take vpon you a charge that was none of yours no nor seemely for you to medle in For to mainteine Religion apperteineth to a Bishop not to a man that is to urmoiled in the suites and questions of the ciuile Law If they did not excel in such vertues and qualities as are to be required in Bishops what a frowarde malice was that to thrust out the good Bishops and to put such base felowes in their roomes and dignities You politike wise man doe you not see that that common weale is neere to vtter ruine and decaie wherin such honours as are dewe to honestie and vertue are geauen to base varlettes But be it that they had ben promoted to this honour for their excellent qualities for I can not wel gesse the truth of the matter and it maie be that thei were before thei came to that dignitie put to schoole to Bucere or els to your Martyr but sir I demaunde of you by what right or iustice was it done Howbeit as touching iustice you haue already satisfied me when you affirmed that within the coÌ„passe of the Queenes Maiesties authoritie is conteined what so euer concerneth God or man But yet I pray you tell me with what ceremonie with what solemnitie with what Religion was it done Who laied handes on them who coÌ„secrated them I would know what holines and