which in prudence might best correspond with their condition still making people the first subject and receptacle of civill power In proofe whereof I have stayed the longer it being the foundation of all this controversie And now passe on to the fourth Proposition which is 4th Proposition SEeing that the people are under God the first subject of civill power therefore the Prince oâ— supreme Magistrate hath no more power then what is communicated to him from the communitie because the affect doth not exceed the vertue of its cause 5th Proposition ANd as the Prince hath no more power then what is communicated from the communitie so the people or communitie cannot give away from themselves the power of selfe-preservation Because the same Commandement that faith Thou shalt not kill doth also say Thou shalt preserve Precepts that forbid evill do command the contrary good Now the morall naturall Law of God forbids a man to kill himselfe and therefore commands him to preserve himselfe and as by a positive act men cannot make a Law to kill themselves no more can they not to preserve themselves the one being as strongly commanded by the morall Law and as deeply seated in Nature as the other Secondly because if the communitie should give away the power of self-preservation the state should not be in a better but in a worser condition then before The King and Prince is taken into Office for the good of the people therefore called Pater patriae Pastor gregis not because he may arbitrarily rule in the Common wealth as a Father doth in his familie but because of his tender care that he is to have over his people and that the people might live more secure and peaceably in all godlinesse and honestie But if the communitie should give such a trust to any one that they might not at all defend themselves beyond his actuall appointment they should be infinitely in a worser condition then before because before such trust they should be freemen but after the trust they should be slaves unlesse it pleases the King through his own gratious condiscention to let them be free still for what is a slave but such a one who is so absolutely at the power of anothers command that he may be spoiled or sold or put under the Gallies and there beaten daily having no power to make any resistance or selfe-defence Thirdly it is agreeable to the Law of Nations and Reason that no inferiour Court can undo what a superiour Court hath done As where an estate is setled upon children by Act of Parliament no inferiour Court of Justice can cut off the intayle Now selfe-preservation is enacted in the Court of Nature as he that hath read but Magirus unbound I meane common naturall principles will grant and therefore no act of a communitie can cut off this intayle from their posteritie or make such a deed of Conveyance whereby themselves and their children should be spoyled of self-preservation Ob. But though by nature a man is bound to preserve himself yet he may destroy or put himself upon that which will be his destruction for the publick good doth not natura particularis go crosse to its own disposition ne detur vacuum Respons True I have read indeed that Natura particularis gives way to natura universalis but never heard before that natura universalis gives way to natura particularis or that natura universalis doth seek its own destruction or loose the power of self-preservation for the good or betternesse of some particular nature Wherefore if the seat of power be in the community and therefore no more power in the supreme then was and is derived from the communitie and the people cannot give away the power of self preservation Then in case the Prince doth neglect his trust so as not to preserve them but to oppose them to violence it is no usurpation for them to look to themselves which yet may be no act of jurisdiction over their Prince or taking away of any power from him which they gave him but is in truth a stirring up acting and exercising of that power which alwayes was left in themselves CHAP. II. HAving now spoken of power in generall I shall say somewhat of the governing and ruling power of England yet because that concerns the Parliament to declare which they have done and Lawyers for to clear which they do I shall but touch upon it and no more then comes within the compasse and verge I do not say of a divine but subject I find therefore in learned Fortescue Lord Chief-Justice and after Lord Chancellor in King Henry the sixth time that he doth distinguish of governed or ruling power into two sorts the one meerly royall and the other politick When Kingdoms are ruled by royall government saith he then men in a times past excelling in power and greedie of dignity and glory did many times by plain force subdue unto themselves their neighbours the Nations adjoyning and compelled them to do them service and to obey their commands which commands they decreed afterwards to be unto the people very Laws Cap. 12. The forme of institution of a politick Kingdom is that where a King is mad and ordained for the defence of the Law of his Subjects and of their bodies and goods whereunto he receiveth power of his people for that he cannot govern his people by any other power Cap. 13. Now saith he the King of England cannot alter or change the Laws of his Realm at his pleasure for he governeth his people by power not onely Royall but also politick And accordingly Wil. the Conquerour to go no higher in whose entrance to the Crown Dr. F. makes the first contrivement of his English government for conscience to rest upon seemes to me to have possest himself of this Kingdom who though he did conquer the same yet the first claime or title that he laid to this Crown was gift which Edward the Consessor had made to him Herauld the former King having promised the Crown also to him In this right he first set foot on the English shore not in the right of a conquest but in the right of a gift and promise as Speed Cambden and others affirm And afterwards when he had obtained the Crown he swore to use and practise the same good laws of Edward for the common laws of this realme notwithstanding saith Mr Fox Amongst the said lawes I find in ancient Records this was part that the King because he is Vicar of the highest King is appointed to rule the kingdome and the Lords people to defend the holy Church which unlesse he do the name of a King agrees not to him but he loseth the name of a King c. 2ly As the King and Conqueror came into the Kingdome by this claim so we finde that in those times the consent and choice of the people was in use for the establishing of Kings amongst them For
THE TRUTH OF THE TIMES VINDICATED WHEREBY The lawfulnesse of Parliamentary procedings in taking up of Arms is justified Doctor Fernes Reply answered and the Case in question more fully resolved By WILLIAM BRIDGE Preacher of Gods word at great Yarmoth PSAL. 127. 1. Except the Lord keep the Citie the Watchman waketh but in vain Quaeso lector ut memor tribunalis Domini de judicio tuo te intelligens judicandum nec mihi nec adversario meo foveas neve personas loquentium sed causam consideres Hierom. Printed according to Order LONDON Printed by T. P. and M. S. for Ben Allen and are to be sold at his Shop in Popes-head Alley 1643. Errata IN the Frontispice for soveas read faveas In the Epistle for being asked read having asked P. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. for Truths of the time r. Truth of the times p 4 for there r. they p 5. for Althaâ—ius r. Althaâ—ius for Henomus c. r. Henonius Henning and Amisaus p 7. for yet r. yea p. 8. for {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} p 10. for duct a naturar dâ—cta naturae p. 13. for Rainervus r. Rainerius p. 13. for affect r. effect p. 14. for under r. into p 15. for oppose r. expose p. 15. for governed r. governing p. 26. for Junius Josephus Brutus read Junius Brutus Josephus p. 29. for ropos r. propos. p. 35 36. for dwell r. dwelt p. 37. for thats read its p 39. for Wisd. 22. r. Rev. 2. p. 39. for but passive r. not passive p 40. for if lawfull r. lawfull p. 41. for take of r. take heed of pag. 45. for to which r. which p. 45. for see will read so will p. 46. for Committe r. community p. 47. for that Prince r. the Prince p. 47. for being read bring for that that r. that it There are many faults escaped in the marginall Latine yet because the Latine is turned into English and the Authors cited I do not note those Errata TO THE RIGHT VVORSHIPFVLL The Knights and Gentlemen Deputie-Lieutenants of the County of NORFOLK Honoured Sirs GIve me leave to joyn you together in one Epistle whom God and your Countrey hath joyned together in one service It is not in my purpose to blazen your worth before the world your own actions speak you in the gate and wise men had rather do worthily then heare of it onely observing your unwearied labour of love for God and your Countrey I count it my duty to come forth and meet you with this pen-service in testimonie of my thankfull respects to you You read Numb. 25. when the wrath of God brake out against Israel that Phineas stood up and executed judgement and the wrath was not onely diverted but himself blessed yea the blessing was a blessing of peace though wrought out by the sword your like action in this time of wrath will carrie the like blessing on your selves and houses yet your work is rather to bring men to justice then to execute it Many blessed comforts wâ—it on your service First we read in Scripture but of one man so potent in heaven that he could command the Sun to stand still and he was a Souldier Joshua but of one man of whom it was said that he had an heart after Gods own heart and he was a great Souldier David but of one man of whom Christ gave that great testimonie I have not found so great faith no not in Israel And he was a Souldier too the Centurion thus haâ—h God honoured your calling Secondly your work is good for you are the Ministers of Reformation I read of a King of Meth sometimes in Ireland that being asked how certain noysome birds that came flying into that countrey and bred there might be destroyed Was answered thus Nidos eorum ubique destruendos The way to be rid of them was to destroy their nests Now for a long season many noysome birds have been flying over into this Kingdom and have bred here the work of these times is to destroy those nests of Jesuites and Jesuited persons and it is that work which now you are upon Though it cost some paines its worth your labour happie is that necessitie which leads to better things Thirdly your cause is just also agreeable to the Law of Nature for Conservatio sui ipsius est opus naturalissimum to the Law of God for David though not the representative body yâ—t lawfully took up armes for his own defence to the Law of the Kingdom for what more legall then that the Houses of Parliament should bring in Delinquents to triall and how can that be without Armes when the Delinquents betake themselves to their Armes The Schoolmen say three things concurre to a just warre First Jurisdictio indicentis and for that you have the Authoritie of Parliament which as one writes if you respect Antiquitie is of all Courts the most ancient if dignitie is of all Courts the most hononorable if authoritie and jurisdiction is of all Courts the most copious Secondly Offensio patientis and for that you have matter too much and your enemies too little the great cause of their armes is but some peece of prerogative if they pretend truly a cause infinitely beneath so unkind bloodie a war as this is Thirdly Intentïo boni convenientis and for that I dare say you are bellando pacifici your war being to prevent warre and your present bleeding to prevent some great sicknesse which this State would sink under Fourthly your Forces live and march under as many prayers as ever English Armies did you have preces armaâ—as and though Joshua fought valiantly Exod. 17. yet the prayers of Moses who was not in the fight got the field Fifthly If you do overcome you shall not make your selves slaves by your own victories we may truly say of some Dum vincunt victi sunt when they have overcome others they are slaves themselves your Religion Laws and Liberties stand all readie to reward your prowes And sixthly If you be overcome and die you die for God and your Countrey who can bring his life into a better market blessed are those that dye for the Lord so that word â— is rather to be read Rev. 14. 13. Wherefore as heretofore so now much more labour to hold forth the vertues of him that hath called you to this great imployment As Souldiers are more honoured then others so they should be more vertuous he had need carry much grace in his heart that doth daily carrie his life in his hand and your Souldiers should as well overcome the Countreys with their good examples as the Enemies with their swords When Joshua went out to battell against the Amalakites his men were all chosen or choice men Exod. 17. 9. And saith the Lord Deut. 23. 9 when the hoste goeth forth against thine enemie then keep thee from every wicked thing It is ordinarily observed that when the jews marched out
they thought For the soule of man perceiving that the Word preached is compounded with their Art and covered over with humane dung that is poluted with humane affection and passion it doth therefore nauseat the thing delivered and is rather provoked then converted Yet because I have been earnestly desired by friends to open more fully the nature of government and civill government of England I am not unwilling to set pen to paper againe For your better satisfaction therefore give me leave to lead you on by some steps or propositions which I shall lay down in the first and second chapters and then shall come more neerly to answer the Doctor CHAP. I NOw because the Basis of our Question is concerning the nature of Government Rule and Authority or ruling and governing power in which principle our Doctor is so much mistaken I must though at last shew what that is Power in it selfe therefore or {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} the word used Rom. 13. properly signifies a liberty or authority to c worke or act towards others translated licentia from {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} as licentia à licet Sometimes the word is used in the abstract as Luke 4. 6. Luke 19. 17. Sometimes in the concreate as Matth. 8. 9. Rom. 13. 1. 2. Where saith Gerard d not without great advice the Apostle Paul doth use an abstractive manner of speech to shew that subiects ought not so much to respect the persons commanding as the office it selfe in their commandements Take the word in the abstract so it is all one with jurisdiction which is ordinarily described to be Jus dicendi in invitum Now this governing power is either Ecclesiasticall or Civill civill Concerning which our question is according to the Apostle Paul as Gerard e Bucanan and others have it is that ordinance of God which is armed with the sword for the terror of those that are evill and encouragement of those that do well Rom. 13 1 2. 3. This dominion of jurisdiction is distinguished from dominion of propriety for dominion of propriety as Medina observes f is a power of disposing of any thing that is a mans owne to his own profit The power of Jurisdiction or government is not so which while some have mistaken they have attributed so much power to the Prince in regard of Townes Castles and Forts as if he had therein dominion of propriety which breeds much confusion in mens apprehensions and doth bias their thoughts into state errors According to Alman Secular or Civill power g is that power which regularly is given to one or more by the people for the ordering and preservation of the Common-Wealth according to the civill Lawes thereof I shall go no further then the Scripture will lead us plainly in this particular As Ecclesiasticall power or jurisdiction is ministeriall and therefore called Jus clavium the power of the Keyes so Civill power is Lordly and therefore called Jus gladii the power of the Sword whereby some are authorized to exercise jurisdiction in Common-wealths over others for the reward of those that are good and the punishment of those that are evill that is governing or ruling power 2d Proposition IF we take governing or ruling power as abstractively considered so it is an ordinance appointed by God himselfe By me Kings reigne saith God And our Saviour when Pilate said Knowest thou not that I have power to loose thee c. said Thou hadst it not unlesse it were given thee from above And againe Give unto Caesar the things that are Caejars shewing that as God hath his dues in the world so the magistrate hath his Besides we are comanded to obey and submit unto the higher powers Rom. 13. And why should there be any obedience if the power it selfe were not commanded of God yea the Israelites are faulted for contemning of God himselfe in casting off the government of Samuel which there should not have been had not government been appointed by God {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} said the Heathen Luther calls Magistracie Necessarium naturae corruptaremedium the necessarie remedy of corrupt nature And Tertullian saith well Inde Imperator unde homo antequam Imperator The voice of nature is the voice of God now nature it selfe teacheth that in a commmunity or body politicke there must be justice administred otherwise the community can never be preserved but justice cannot be administred nnlesse authority power or jurisdiction be first appointed for what hath a private man to do to put another to death Thou shalt not kill is made to all men Object But the Apostle calls it {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} an humane constitution or creature how therefore is it true that ruling power is an ordinance appointed of God himselfe Answ. The Apostle dorh no where say that power it selfe or Magistracie in the abstract is an ordinance of man but the forme or qualification of it as Monarchy Aristocracie Democracie which are the chanels in which this power runs is {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} And therefore the Apostle having said Be subject to every ordidinance of man he addeth whether to the King as supreame or to the Governours c. h Durandus here distinguishes between institution of power and acquisition of it Secular power saith he considered according to its institution is of God but according to its acquisition and way of use so not Our Doctor doth ordinarily confound these in his reasonings yea though he distinguishes them when he sets downe his owne naked judgement yet when he comes to reason against us he will take no notice of his owne distinction neither can we perswade him to it but the thing being as visible as the Sunne I passe to the third and chiefe step of my discourse which is this following 3◠Propos. THough power abstractively considered be originally from God himselfe yet he hath communicated that power to the people so as the first subject seat and receptacle of ruling civill power under himselfe is the whole people or body politicke To this purpose Doctor Ruherfords words are very plaine Afree Common-wealth saith he containes ordines regni the States that have Nomotheticke power and they not onely by the law of Nature may use justa tutela a necessary defence of their lives from a tyrants fury but also by the law of Nations may authoritatively represse and limit as is proved by Junius Brutus Bucherius Althasius Haenomus Therefore Heming Amiceus doe well distinguish between Plebem {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} populum for indeed the multitude excluding the States or base of the people can hardly have another law against i tyrant then the law of Nature But the Common-wealth including the States of a free Kingdome hath an authoritative So Isodore Origen Atistotle Plato Titus Livius Plutarch and that of the Councell of Basil Plus valet Regnum quam
Rex The Kingdome is more worth then the King approved by all Thus farre Doctor Rutherford professor of Divinity in Scotland The reasons of my position are these First when God gave the power of the Sword to men Gen. 9 6. he gave it indiscriminatim without difference to all the world Noah and his sonnes being all the men that were then alive in the world and he gave not the Sword onely to Noah but to all his sonnes that then were upon the face of the earth not that every one might ordinarily use it but that they might as they thought fit appoint one or more who might exercise that power that was given to all as the first seat of it Secondly because the power of ruling and governing is naturall and what ever is naturall doth first agree to the communitie or totum and afterward to the particular person or part as the power of seeing and hearing as k Facultas Parisiensis observes to this purpose is firstly in the man and from the man in the eye or eare or particular member Thirdly because the Fluxus and Refluxus of civill authoritie is from and to the people If the authority of ruling in a Commonwealth be given by the people to him that ruleth I speake what is Jure Regulariter and returneth to them againe to see justice done in case that there is no particular supreme Magistrate left to rule then the first subject seat and receptable of ruling power must needs be in the people Now so it is that both these are true which I shall prove one after another As first The Fluxus of civill authority is from the people civill government or authority is derived from the people to the Prince or him that ruleth they ordinarily and regularly doe and are to communicate that governing power where with such or such a person is so invested therefore saith the Lord Dâ—ut. 17. 14. 15. When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee and shalt possesse it and shalt dwell therein and shalt say I will set a King over me like as all the nations that are about me thou shalt in any wise set him King over thee whom the Lord thy God shall chuse thou shalt not set a stranger over thee which is not thy brother Where we shall see that the whole power of appointing and setting a King over them was given unto that people as other Nations had it by God himselfe For first God directing them herein doth not say thus When thou dwellest in the land which I shall give thee Take heed that thou do not set a King over thee which thing belongs not to thee but as a matter belonging to the people he saith when thou shalt say I will set a King over me be sure that he be a good one and such as is pleasing to me Secondly In that he doth take away the power from them of making a stranger he granteth them a power to make a brother as l Mendoza well observes Now saith God to them thou mayest not set a stranger over thee which is not thy brother Thirdly what can be more plaine then the words themselves In the 15. verse the words are reduplicated Ponendo pones according to the Hebrew in placing thou shalt place And that there might bee no mistake in the matter God is pleased to explaine the former word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} which we translate set or place by an afterward in the â—5 verse {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} which signifies to give Thus thou maiâ—st not give a stranger over thee so that setting and giving in these two verses are all one shewing that is firstly in the people to set or give a power unto others to rule over them Secondly the Apostle Peter calis this civill power {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Now it is not therefore called so onely because it concerns men or because it is conversant about men or appointed for the good of men for then the government m of the Church also should be so called but because the way of governing is raised appointed established by man himselfe as is observed out of Oecumenius n Thirdly this derivation of authority from the people will appeare also if men do seriously consider the state of Jewish government There was no people nnder heaven whom God did so immediatly reigne over as their King yet if we observe those Kings that were the most immediatly appointed by God himselfe we shall finde the intervening choice of the people insomuch as it is said of Saul expresly that the people did chuse him 1 Sam. 12. 13. Behold your King whom you have chosen and desired upon which words Mendoza observes that by the word chosen cannot be meant desired because that word was added too as different from the former yet it is said 1 Sam. 11. 15. That all the people went to Gilgall and there they made Saul King Whereupon sayes o Mendoza What is more plain Neither could they make him King otherwise then by conferring Kingly power upon him I doe not say that God did not make a designation of his person to the Crowne there is much difference between the designation of person and collation of power When the Israelites were under the government of the Judges they desired chose a new way of government saying to Samuel Now make us a King to judge us like all the Nations 1. Sam. 8 5. And when God had yeelded to them and had designed Saul over them the people also came in with their election and sufftages Neither are these two Gods designation and mans election repugnant but may stand together For as Zepperus observes on those words Deut. 17. p Thou shalt set over thee a man whom God shall choose the election may be of God the constitution susception and comprobation of the people by their suffrages And Car. Scribanius q who purposely writes of the forme and manner of the Jewes government and Common-wealth speaks abundantly and plainly thus But for that which concernes the creation of the King of Israel he was first saith he created by the suffrages of the whole people And if God would have it so then among the children of Israel whom he intended in speciall manner to reigne over himselfe much more may we thinke that God would have the first constitution of Kingdomes to be so ordered now and amongst other people Wherefore I conclude this That the Prince doth and ought at first to receive his government and authoritie from the people and that the people themselves do give it to him And if so then the first seat and subject of civill government is the people r For that nothing can give that to another which it hath not it selfe first either formally or virtually And now secondly for the reflux of authority so it is that in case there have been a
when William the first sent to Herald to make good his promise Herald answered that he was rightfull King as being so by the consent and choyce of the people as is reported in Cambden in his Britannia thus As concerning the promise of King Edw. William is to understand that the Realme of England could not be given by promise neither ought I to be tied to the said promise seeing the Kingdome is fallen to me by election and not inheritance And as for his own stipulation he said it was extorted from him by force neither he if he could nor might if he would make it good seeing it was done without the consent of the people Yea Histories tell us that when William the first had beaten Herald in the field the people still were in doubt whom they should chuse and setup for their King For sayes Culiel Malmsburiens Edwin and Morcard came to London and solicited the Citie that they would preferre one of them to the Kingdome and the rest of the Nobles would have chosen Edgar if the Bishops would have stuck to them But the English who then might have healed the ruines of the Kingdome whilest they would none of their owne brought in a stranger So that though William the first had gotten the field yet was not he brought to the Crown but with the consent and choyce though much over-pow'red and over-awed of the people So sayes Speed expressely Consent thus gotten all voices given for William he was crowned King at Westminster 3ly As the Crown in those dayes was obtained by the consent choice of the people so I say that even William the Conquerour did not come to the Crown without all conditions for the Kentish men would not receive him but upon cōdition which they proposed thus Most noble Duke behold here the Commons of Kent are come forth to meet and receive you as their Soveraigne requiring your peace their own free condition or estate and their ancient lawes formerly used If these bee denied they are here presently to abide the verdict of battell fully resolved rather to die then to depart with their lawes or to live servile in bondage which name and nature is and ever shall be strange unto us and not to be exdured The Conquerour driven to these streights and loath to hazard all on so nice a point more wisely then willingly granted their desires and pledges on both parts given for performance So saith Speed in his Chronicles so that it is plain that even William the first came not to the full Crown of England without all conditions and therefore our Kings and Princes pleading their right from him cannot be Kings and Princes without all conditions I know Dr. F. tells us that the Kings oath imports no condition but is taken for confirmation and strengthning of mutuall duties whether that be true let any judge who reads but these things And indeed if the Kings of England were such absolute Monarchs as that no resistance might be made to their commandments for the taking up of Arms for the defence of the country when enjoyned by Parliament then the subjects and people of England must lose this power of selfe-defence for they once had it all men by nature having a power to defend themselves either by conquest as being by force spoyled thereof or else they gave it away by some indenture at the election of the Prince for inheritance is but succession of election inheritance or immediate donation from God or else God hath forbidden this forcible resistance by Scripture If it bee said that this people are spoiled thereof by conquest and are as a people meetly conquered then any other sword that is longer then the Princes may fetch back that power again If it be said that this people gave away this power by Indenture at the first election of their Prince then let men shew us such Indenture If it be said that God hath forbidden such a forcible resistance by Rom. 13. 1 2 3. or the like Scriptures then it must be affirmed that the Parliament are not the higher powers which Dr Ferne granteth for if the Parliament come within the compasse of those words higher Powers then that Scripture Rom. 13. doth not reach them but rather requires others to be obedient to them yea if by the higher powers is understood onely the King then the two Houses may not make any forcible resistance against any petty Constable that comes in the K◠authority to do violence to the two Houses Surely therefore this and the like Scriptures are much abused the meaning being only to command obedience to authority in all things that tend to the encouragement of good and punishment of evill and therefore there is such a power in the subjects both by the law of nature and constitution of the kingdome to take up Arms when the State or two Houses expresse it not withstanding the expression of any one man to the contrary CHAP. III. HAving shewed the nature of power in generall in the first chapter the way manner of Englands government in some measure in the second Chapter I now come to the vindication of the truth as opposed by Dr Fern in his last Book called Conscience satisfied wherein he spends the 7 former chapters mostly in answer to a book called a Fuller answer In his 8. Sect. he comes to examine such grounds as I premised for the lawfulnesse of Parliamentary proceedings in taking up of Arms as now they do That I may not weary the Reader in turning from book to book I shall somtimes briefly set down what I had written then his Reply then give my answer unto it Mr. Bridge tels us saith the Doctor that there are three grounds of their proceeding by armes to fetch in Delinquents to their triall to secure the State from forrain invasion to preserve themselves from Popish rebellon Dr. Ferne replyeth Yet this must be done in an orderly and legall way and if conscience would speake the truth it could not say that any delinquents were denied or withheld till the Militia was seized and a great delinquent in the matter of Hull was denied to be brought to triall at his Majesties instance Ans. How true this is that the Doctor writes the world knows I need not say the Parliament to this day never denied to try any that were accused by the King so that they might be tried legally by himself and the two Houses which is the known priviledge of every Parliament man according to Law Dr. F. But Mr. Bridge tels us all this is done as an act of self-preservation not as an act of jurisdiction over their Prince and the Fuller Answer would have us beleeve they are inabled to it by Law and constitution of this government and that they do it by an act of judgement let him and Mr. Bridge agree it Ans. There needs no great skill to untie this knot not mediator to make us friends the
to give in witnesse An. Very well if they be parties interessed and so not fit to give in witnes then they are of our judgment observe Reader here he granteth that the Protestant Churches and the Divines of France and the Low-Countries are parties interessed so of our judgement What Protestant Churches or Divines then will he alledge for his sentence Will hee have the Diviner of Switzerland I brought a Testimony of the Divines of the Councell of Basil and that hee doth not contradict Are the Divines of Geneva of his mind I brought the Testimony of Calvin that hee saith nothing to but it passeth with him as granted by him Are the Divines of Scotland I brought him the Testimony of Mr. Bucanan that Testimony also he doth not deny It may be that was but one and so he would not take notice of it Read therefore what Mr. Knox saith Because this occasion is layed against Gods true Ministers Wee cannot but witnesse what Trade and Order of Doctrine they have kept and keepe in that point they affirme that if wicked persons abusing the authority established by God command things manifestly wicked that such as may and doe bridle this inordinate appetite of Princes cannot bee accused as resistaries of Authority which is Gods good Ordinance to bridle the fury and rage of Princes in free Kingdomes and Realmes They affirme it appertaineth to Nobility sworne and borne Counsells of the same and also to the Barons and People whose Wills and Consents are to bee required in all great matters of the Common wealth Which if they doenst they declare themselves criminall with their Princes and subject to the same vengeance of God This was the doctrine and judgement of the Divines in Scotland in the beginning of Reformation as related by Mr. Knox And what the judgement of the Scots Divines is for the present seeing he will not take practise for Testimony of Judgement he may Read in their Answer to Lysimachus Nicanour thus As for the lawfullnesse of resistance hee may understand that that hath been the tenet of our Church since the Reformation it hath beene the right and practise of our Kingdomes since the first foundation A number of instances thereof are approved in our standing acts of Parliament unrepealed to this day It hath beene the practise of all Reformed Churches abroad wherein by Queen Elizabeth King James and King Charles they have been all allowed And the most of them allowed by powerfull assistance both with Men and Money To this purpose Dr. Rutherford also as I have shewed already Chap. 1. ropos 3. But it may be the Dr. will tell us that the Scottish Divines are also Parties and interessed in the Cause Very good Wee shall shortly have a great Party in the Protestant Churches for us and with us What Divines then are against us in the Doctors opinion Are the Divines of England He tels us also page 45. yet doe some of them allow of Resistance in some cases Good still By and by it will arise to somewhat here is yet more of our Party as the Dr. calls them by his owne confession As for the Testimonies that I brought of Dr. Bilson and Dr. Willet he saith that 's plaine they speake of such Government such States such cases as will not agree to this Kingdom at this time But why not the Dr. will not tell us If I tell him that Peter Martyr also Professor of divinity in England was of our Judgement as he may read plainely â—udg 1. hee will tell me it may be that Peter Martyr speakes not of this time or of this case or of this State If I referre him to Polanus Dan. 11. who writes largely in this matter with us it may bee hee will tell us also that Polanus speakes not to our case to our time or to our State But if I referre him to Barkley and Hugo Grocius who well knew the judgment of the low Countrey divines I suppose the Dr. will not say those are Parties Barcleus saith Hugo Grocius the most strong defender of Regall Empire yet descends thus farre to yeeld unto the people and the chiefe part of them a power to defend themselves against immane cruelty when yet notwithstanding hee confesses that the people are subject unto the King and as for â—ne saith Hugo Grocius I dare not indiscriminatim condemne those or that part of the people which doe use this defence having respect unto the publike good For David had many armed men about him that hee might repell violence offered unto him And at that time David was commended by a prudent Woman that hee sought the Lords Battell which words many doe ill referre to Davids former Battels where as Abigails Speech is rather a correction of what Naball sayd Many Subjects are now fallen from their King which words that Abigail might correct Shee saith the Warres of David were Godly as being undertaken not out of defection from his Prince but for tuition and preservation of his owne life But because the Doctor seemes to want some testimonies of the French Protestant divines I will give him one for all and surely hee will not say the words are not spoken of such Government such States such cases or such times as ours are This question being on foot in Charles 9 time What is to be done by the Subject when he is violenced by the Magistrate or if the chiefe magistrate degenerate into a Tyrant may the Subjects resist by force of Arms That was Answered by one Learned Man for and in the defence of the Protestants in those times thus Subjects are of three sorts either meâ—re private men bearing no publike Office or else they are such as are in some inferiour and subordinate place of Magistracie or else they are such as are so inferiour to the chiefe Magistrate that by the laws of the Land are appointed to bridle the chiefe as for private men saith the Author it is evill for them to resist with force of Armes either they must sly or suffer As for the second sort they not being the Kings houshold Servants but rather to bee called Officers of the Crowne depending not so much on the King as Kingdome the King abusing his power to the overthrow of Lawes these inferiour Magistrates ought to oppose for the conservation of those who are committed unto their trust and if need bee to take up Armes tilthings bee otherwise provided for by the Estates of the Kingdome As for the third sort saith hee though they in some respect are under the chiefe Magistrate yet in some respect they are keepers of the Supreme dignity that the chiefe Magistrate may bee kept in his Office These may if need require represse and chastise him for the people is not made for the Magistrate but the magistrate for the people his power taking its rise from them Ob. But though this were the first rise of magistracie yet