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law_n	england_n	ireland_n	parliament_n	7,854	5	7.5307	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A70113	Their highness the Prince & Princess of Orange's opinion about a general liberty of conscience, &c. being a collection of four select papers.; Correspondence. Selections	Fagel, Gaspar, 1634-1688.; Stewart, James, Sir, 1635-1713. Correspondence. Selections.; Burnet, Gilbert, 1643-1715.	1689 (1689)	Wing F93; Wing B5930; ESTC R3295	28,089	40

Their HIGHNESS the Prince Princess OF ORANGE's OPINION About a GENERAL Liberty of Conscience c. Being a Collection of FOUR SELECT PAPERS VIZ. I. Mijn Heer Fagel ' s First Letter to Mr. Stewart II. Reflexions on Monsieur Fagel's Letter III. Fagel's Second Letter to Mr. Stewart IV. Some Extracts out of Mr. Stewart's Letters which were communicated to Mijn Heer Fagel Together with some References to Mr. Stewart's Printed Letter LONDON Printed and are to be Sold by Richard Janeway in Queens-head-alley in Pater-Noster-Row 1689. A LETTER Writ by Mijn Heer FAGEL Pensioner of Holland to Mr. James Stewart Advocate Giving an Account of the Prince and Princess of Orange's thoughts concerning the Repeal of the Test and the Penal Laws SIR I Am extream sorry that my ill health hath so long hindred me from Answering those Letters in which you so earnestly desired to know of me what their Highnesses thoughts are concerning the Repeal of the Penal Laws and more particularly of that concerning the Test I beg you to assure your self that I will deal very plainly with you in this matter and without Reserve since you say that your Letters was writ by the King's knowledge and allowance I must then first of all assure you very positively that their Highnesses have often declared as They did more particularly to the Marquis of Albeville His Majesties Envoy Extraordinary to the States that it is their Opinion That no Christian ought to be persecuted for his Conscience or be ill used because he differs from the publick and and established Religion And therefore they can consent that the Papists in England Scotland and Ireland be suffered to continue in their Religion with as much Liberty as is allowed them by the States in these Provinces in which it cannot be denied that they en●●y a full Liberty of Conscience And as for the Dissenters Their Highnesses do not only consent but do heartily approve of their having an entire Liberty for the full Exercise of their Religion without any trouble or hindrance so that none may be able to give them the least disturbance upon that account And their Highnesses are very ready in case His Majesty shall think fit to desire it to declare their willingness to concur in the settling and confirming this Liberty and as far as it lies in them they will protect and defend it and according to the Language of Treaties They will confirm it with their Guarranty of which you made mention in yours And if His Majesty shall think fit fuether to desire their concurrence in the Repealing of the Penal Laws They are ready to give it provided always that those Laws remain still in their full vigour by which the R. Catholicks are shut out of both Houses of Parliament and out of all publick Employments Ecclesiastical Civil and Military as likewise all those other Laws which confirm the Protestant Religion and which secures it against all the attempts of the Roman Catholicks But Their Highnesses cannot agree to the Repeal of the Test or of those other Penal Laws last mentioned that tend to the security of the Protestant Religion since the R. Catholicks receive no other prejudice from these than the being excluded from Parliaments or from publick Employments And that by them the Protestant Religion is covered from all the Designs of the R. Catholicks against it or against the publick safety And neither the Test nor these other Laws can be said to carry in them any severity against the Roman Catholicks upon account of their Consciences They are only Provisions qualifying men to be Members of Parliament or to be capable of bearing Office by which they must declare before God and Men that they are for the Protestant Religion So that indeed all this amounts to no more than a securing the Protestant Religion from any Prejudices that it may receive from the R. Catholicks Their Highnesses have thought and do still think that more than this ought not to be askt or expected from Them since by this means the R. Catholicks and their Posterity will be for ever secured from all trouble in their Persons or Estates or in the Exercise of their Religion and that the Roman Catholicks ought to be satisfied with this and not to disquiet the Kingdom because they cannot be admitted to sit in Parliament or to be in Employments or because those Laws in which the security of the Protestant Religion does chiefly consist are not repealed by which they may be put in a condition to overturn it Their Highnesses do also believe that the Dissenters will be fully satisfied when they shall be for ever covered from all danger of being disturbed or punished for the free Exercise of their Religion upon any sort of pretence whatsoever Their Highnesses having declared themselves so positively in these matters it seems very plain to me that They are far from being any hindrance to the Freeing the Dissenters from the severity of the Penal Laws since they are ready to use their utmost endeavours for the establishing of it nor do they at all press the denying to the Roman Catholicks the exercise of their Religion provided it be managed modestly and without Pomp or Ostentation As for my own part I ever was and still am very much against all those who would persecute any Christian because he differs from the publick and established Religion And I hope by the Grace of God to continue still in the same mind for since that Light with which Religion illuminates our mind is according to my sense of things purely an effect of the Mercy of God to us we ought then as I think to render to God all possible Thanks for his Goodness to us and to have Pity for those who are still shut up in Error even as God has pitied us and to put up most earnest prayers to God for bringing those into the way of Truth who stray from it and to use all gentle and friendly methods for reducing them to it But I confess I could never comprehend how any that profess themselves Christians and that may enjoy their Religion freely and without any disturbance can judge it lawful for them to go about to disturb the Quiet of any Kingdom or State or to overturn Constitutions that so they themselves may be admitted to Employments and that those Laws in which the Security and Quiet of the Established Religion consists should be shaken It is plain that the Reformed Religion is by the Grace of God and by the Laws of the Land enacted by both King and Parliament the publick and established Religion both in England Scotland and Ireland and that it is provided by those Laws that none can be admitted either to a place in Parliament or to any publick Employment except those that do openly declare that they are of the Protestant Religion and not Roman Catholicks and it is also provided by those Laws that the Protestant Religion shall be in all time coming

secured from the Designs of the Roman Catholicks against it in all which I do not see that these Laws contain any Severity either against the Persons or Estates of those who cannot take those Tests that are contrary to the Roman Catholick Religion all the inconveniences that can redound to them from thence is that their Persons their Estates and even the Exercise of their Religion being assured to them only they can have no share in the Government nor in Offices of ●rust as long as their Consciences do not allow them to take these Tests and they are not suffered to do any thing that is to the prejudice of the Reformed Religion Since as I have already told you Their Highnesses are ready to concur with his Majesty for the Repeal of those Penal Laws by which men are made liable to fines or other Punishments So I see there Remains no difficulty concerning the Repealing the Penal Laws but only this that some would have the Roman Catholicks render'd capable of all publick Trusts and Employments and that by consequence all those should be repealed that have secured the Protestane Religion against the designs of the R. Catholicks where others at the same time are not less earnest to have those Laws maintained in their full and due vigour and think that the chief security of the established Religion consists in the preserving of them sacred and unshaken It is certain that there is no Kingdom Commonwealth or any constituted body or Assembly whatsoever in which there are not Laws made for the safety thereof and that provide against all Attempts whatsoever that disturb their Peace and that prescribe the Conditions and Qualities that they judge necessary for all that shall bear Employments in that Kingdom State or Corporation And no man can pretend that there is any Injury done him that he is not admitted to Imployments when he doth not satisfie the Conditions and Qualities required Nor can it be denied that there is a great difference to be observed in the conduct of those of the Reformed Religion and of the Roman Catholicks towards one another The Roma Catholicks not being satisfied to exclude the Reformed from all places of profit or of Trust they do absolutely suppress the whole Exercise of that Religion and severely persecute all that profess it and this they do in all those places where it is safe and without danger to carry on that rigour And I am sorry that we have at this present so many deplorable Instances of this severity before our eyes that is at the same time put in practice in so many different places I would therefore gladly see one single good reason to move a Protestant that fears God and that is concerned for his Religion to consent to the Repealing of those Laws that have been enacted by the Authority of King and Parliament which have no other tendency but to the security of the Reformed Religion and to the restraining of the Roman Catholicks from a capacity of overturning it these Laws inflict neither Fines nor Punishments and do only exclude the Roman Catholicks from a share in the Government who by being in Employments must needs study to increase their Party and to gain to it more Credit and Power which by what we see every day we must conclude will be extreamly dangerous to the Reformed Religion and must turn to its great prejudice since in all places those that are in publick Employments do naturally Favour that Religion of which they are either more or less And who would go about to perswade me or any man else to endeavour to move Their Highnesses whom God hath honoured so far as to make them the Protectors of his Church to approve of or to consent to things so hurtful both to the Reformed Religion and to the publick safety Nor can I Sir with your good leave in any way grant what you apprehend That no prejudice will thereby redound to the Reformed Religion I know it is commonly said the number of the Roman Catholicks in England and Scotland is very inconsiderable and that they are possessed only of a very small number of the places of Trust tho even as to this the case is quite different in Ireland yet this you must of necessity grant me that if their numbers are small then it is not reasonable that the publick Peace should be disturbed on the account of so few persons especially when so great a favour may be offered to them such as the free Exercise of their Religion would be and if their numbers are greater then there is so much the more reason to be affraid of them I do indeed believe that Roman Catholicks as things at present stand will not be very desirous to be in publick Offices and Imployments nor that they will make any attempts upon the Reformed Religion both because this contrary to Law and because of the great Inconveniences that this may bring at some other time both on their Persons and their Estates yet if the Restraints of the Law were once taken off you would see them brought into the Government and the chief Offices and Places of Trust would be put in thnir hands no will it be easy to His Majesty to resist them in this how stedfast soever he may be for they will certainly press him hard in it and they will represent this to the King as a matter in which His Conscience will be concerned and when they are possessed of the Publick Offices what will be left for the Protestants to do who will find no more the support of the Law and can expect little Encouragement from such Magistrates and on the other hand the Advantages that the R. Catholicks would find in being thus set loose from all Restraints are so plain that it were a loss of time to go about the proving it I neither can or will doubt of the sincerity of His Majesties intentions and that He has no other design before Him in this matter but that all his Subjects may enjoy in all things the same Rights and Freedoms But plain Reason as well as the Experience of all Ages the present as well as the past shews that it will be impossible for R. Catholicks and Protestants when they are mixed together in places of Trust and publick Employments to live together peaceably or to maintain a good Correspondence together They will be certainly always jealous of one another For the Principles and the Maxims of both Religions are so opposite to one another that in my opinion I do not see how it will be in the power of any Prince or King whatsoever to keep down those Suspitions and Animosities which will be apt to arise upon all occasions As for that which you apprehend that the Dissenters shall not be delivered from the Penal Laws that are made against them unless at the same time the Test be likewise repealed This will be indeed a great unhappiness to them but the Roman Catholicks

are only to blame for it who will rather be content that they and their Posterity should lie still under the weight of the Penal Laws and exposed to the hatred of the whole Nation than be still restrained from a capacity of attempting any thing against the Peace and the Security of the Protestans Religion And be deprived of that small advantage if it is at all to be reckoned one of having a share in the Government and publick Employments since in all places of the World his has been always the priviledge of the Religion that is established by Law and indeed these Attempts of the Roman Catholicks ought to be so much the more suspected and guarded against by Protestants in that they see that Roman Catholicks even when liable to the Severity of Penal Laws do yet endeavour to perswade his Majesty to make the Protestants whether they will or not dissolve that Security which they have for their Religion and to clear a way for bringing in the Roman Catholicks to the Government and to publick Employments in which case there would remain no relief for them but what were to be expected from a Roman Catholick Government Such then will be very unjust to their Highnesses who shall blame them for any Inconveniency that may arise from thence since they have declared themselves so freely on this subject and that so much to the advantage even of the Roman Catholicks And since the Settlement of matters sticks at this single point that Their Highnesses cannot be brought to consent to things that are so contrary to Laws already in being and that are so dangerous and so hurtful to the Protestant Religion as the admitting of Roman Catholicks to a share in the Government and to places of Trust and the Repealing of those Laws that can have no other effect but the securing of the Protestant Religion from all the Attempts of the Roman Catholicks against it would be You write That the Roman Catholicks in these provinces are not shut out from the Employments and places of Trust But in this you are much mistaken For our Laws are express excluding them by name from all share in the Government and from all Employments either of the Policy or Justice of our Country It is true I do not know of any express Law that shuts them out of Military Employments that had indeed been hard since in the first Formation of our State they joyned with us in defending our publick Liberty and did us eminent service during the Wars therefore they were not shut out from those Military Employments for the publick safety was no way endanger'd by this both because their numbers that served in our Troops were not great and because the States could easily prevent any Inconvenience that might arise out of that which could not have been done so easily if the Roman Catholicks had been admitted to a Share in the Government and in the Policy or Justice of our State I am very certain of this of which I could give very good proofs that there is nothing which Their Highnesses desire so much as that His Majesty may Reign happily and in an entire Confidence with his Subjects and that His subjects being perswaded of His Majesties fatherly affection to them may be ready to make him all the returns of Duty that are in th●●● Power But their Highnesses are convinced in their Consciences that both the Protestant Religion and the safety of the Nation will be exposed to most certain Dangers if either the Test or those other Penal Laws of which I have made frequent mention should be Repealed Therefore they cannot consent to this nor concur with His Majesty's Will for they believe they should have much to Answer for to God if the consideration of any present advantages should carry them to consent and concur in things which they believe would be not only dangerous but mischievous to the Protestant Religion Their Highnesses have ever pay'd a most profound Duty to His Majesty whcih they will always continue to do for they consider themselves bound to it both by the Laws of God and of Nature But since the matter that is now in hand relates not to the making of new Laws but to the total Repealing of those already made both by King and Parliament They do not see how it can be expected of them that they should consent to such a Repeal to which they have so just an aversion as being a thing that is contrary to the Laws and Customs of all Christian States whether Protestants or Papists who receive ●one to a share in the Government or to publick Employments but those who profess the publick and established Religion and that take care to secure it against all attempts whatsoever I do not think it necessary to demonstrate to you how much their Highnesses are devoted to His Majesty of which they have given such real Evidences as are beyond all verbal ones and they are resolved still to continue in the same Duty and Affection or rather to encrease it if that is possible I am SIR Yours c. Novemb. 4. 1687. Amsterdam Printed in the Year 168● Reflexions on Monsieur Fagel's Letter SIR I Shall endeavour to answer yours as fully and briefly as possible 1. You desire to know whether the Letter I sent you be truly Monsieur Fagel's or not 2. Whether their Highnesses gave him Commission to write it 3. How far the Dissenters may relie on their Highnesses word 4. What effects it has on all sorts of People Sir Roman Catholicks may be pardoned if they endeavour to make that Letter pass for an Imposture it is their Interest so to do and they are seldom wanting to promote that let the methods be never so indirect which they are forced to make use of It does indeed spoil many hopeful projects of theirs But how any Protestant among us can really doubt the truth of it is strange to me Some things carry their own evidence along with them I take this Letter to be one of that kind I do not desire you to believe me upon my bare affirmation that I know it to be genuine tho this be most true but shall offer my Reasons to convince you that it cannot be otherways First The Letter is like its Author the Matter is weighty the Reasoning solid the Stile grave full and clear like that of a Lawyer It has an Air all over which as well shews the Religion and Temper of its Writer as the Matter and Method of it do his Capacity and Judgment Now all these Qualities make up the Character of Monsieur Fagel Secondly There are the same grounds to believe this Letter to be M. Fagel's as there are to believe any thing you have not seen viz. The constant Asseverations of Persons of undoubted Credit that come from Holland who all agree in it and assure us of it M. Fagel own'd it to several English Gentlemen and many both here and in Holland knew two

themselves the R. C's have neither Hearts to keep firm to such a Resolution nor Hands to Execute it Since therefore They themselves have unhappily brought their Church into such Pre●pices by provoking the Dissenters it is in a particular manner their Duty as well as their laterest to endeavour to soften them by assisting the Letter and promoting the Design of it But if the old leaven still remain they continue to argue as formerly if the Surplice be parted with the Church of England is lost if the Penal Laws be repealed the Test will follow and comfort themselves with this most Christian reflection that the R. C. will not accept of what is offered them such men deserve all the misery that is preparing for them and will perish without Pity and give thinking Men occasion to remember the Proverb Beat a Fool or a Zealot in a Morter yet his Foolishness will not depart from him But the Dissenters ought not to be much concerned at this they have their own Bigots and the Church of England theirs there will be Tools whilst there are Workmen This a time for Wisdom to be justified of her Children when honest men ought to leave off minding the lesser Interests of this or that particular Church and joyn in securing the common Interest of the Protestant Religion And to conclude I would particularly beg of the Dissenters to make use of their best Judgment on this so critical an occasion which they will do in my opinion in keeping close to the contents of this Letter by endeavouring to obtain in a fair and legal way such a Liberty to all Perswasions as is the Natural Right of Freemen and as our Protestant Successors declare themselves willing to joyn in and if those who have an equal nay a greater Interest than themselves will not agree to such a Liberty because they will be Masters or nothing the Dissenters will have the comfort of having discharged their own Consciences as prudent Men and good Christians ought to do and may safely trust God with the Event Sir I thought I had made an end but looking your Letter over again I find I have forgot to answer a reason or two you give why you doubt whether the Letter be truly M. Fagels You are informed you say that such and such Great Men doubted of it but some might as well pretend to doubt of the Truth of that Letter tho they knew it to be true as believe Her Majesty to be with Child almost before she knew it Her self and that she was quick when the Embryo as Anatomists say is not much above an Inch long I don't think that Popish Successors like certain weeds grow faster than others The Persons you name may Trim and presume on their Merit least they might be thought capable of Resentment A dangerous Reflection I say their Merit you have seen a long relation of the great services some when they were in power did their Highnesses it is bound up with a relation of the true causes of their sufferings for their or rather their Highnesses Religion You know even how one of them the last Summer payed them his reverence with all the Respect and Humility of a due distance and with the same caution with which the Invincible Monarch fights out of Cannon shot But Sir though the character of a Trimmer be ordinarily the character of a Prudent Man there are times and seasons when it is not the Character of an Honest Man. I acknowledge that since their Highnesses Marriage nothing has hapned so much for the good of the Protestant Interest as this Letter of M. Fagels and if I had been either the Writer or Adviser of it I should be very proud of it and think the Nation much in my debt But Sir that was not a very good reason to make you doubt of it for a good cause will have its time tho not so often as a bad one which hath ordinarily the Majority on its side I am confident at present we have all the reason in the world to expect it for my own part though I am neither young nor strong I hope to live to see a day of Jubilee in England for all that deserve it when honest men shall have the same pleasure in thinking on these times that a Woman happily delivered hath in reflecting on the pain and danger she was in But Knaves shall remember them as I am told the damned do their sins Cursing both them and themselves Sir I am Yours January 12 1688. A Letter Writ by Mijn Heer Fagel Pensioner to the Great and Mighty Lords the States of Holland and Westfriesland Writ in French on the 9th of April N. Stile 1688. To the Marquiss of Albeville Envoy Extraordinary of His Majesty of Great Britain to the High and Mighty the States General of the Vnited Provinces To which is prefixt an Account in Dutch of the Letter Writ by Mijn Heer Fagel on the 4th of November in the year 1687. to Mr. Stewart written by the said Pensioner and Published by his Order Printed at the Hague by James Scheltus Printer to the States of Holland and Westfriesland Translated out of the French and Dutch into English READER I Gaspar Fagel having the honour to serve the Great and Mighty States of Holland and Westfriesland in the Quality of their Pensioner cannot any longer delay the giving the Publick this account that in the month of July last 1687. I was very earnestly desired by Mr. James Stewart Advocate to write to him what were the Prince and Princess of Orange's Thoughts concerning the repealing the Test and the Penal Laws but I was not easily brought to put Pen to Paper on this subject because I knew that their Highnesses Thoughts did not agree with his Majesties so that the writing in such matters was extream tender therefore I delayed it till I was more earnestly pressed to it and it was Intimated to me that those pressing desires were made by His Majesties Knowledge and Allowance at last I did according to the mind of their Highnesses draw the Letter which I writ to Mr. Stewart on the 4th of November I transmitted the draught of my Letter to their Highnesses and received upon it their order to send it after that their Highnesses had read and examined the draught in Dutch together with the Translation of it into English upon all this I sent my Letter to Mr. Stewart in the beginning of November and received an answer from him by which he signified that he had shewed my Letter both to the Earl of Melfort and to the Earl of Sunderland and that it was also shewed to the King himself nor did he in the least intimate to me that it was desired that I should make any great secret of it or take care that it should not become publick That Letter was afterwards about the middle of January Printed in England and upon its coming over into this Country it has occasioned a great