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A20661 A proufe of certeyne articles in religion, denied by M. Iuell sett furth in defence of the Catholyke beleef therein, by Thomas Dorman, Bachiler of Diuinitie. VVhereunto is added in the end, a conclusion, conteinyng .xij. causes, vvhereby the author acknovvlegeth hym self to haue byn stayd in hys olde Catholyke fayth that he vvas baptized in, vvysshyng the same to be made common to many for the lyke stay in these perilouse tymes. Dorman, Thomas, d. 1577? 1564 (1564) STC 7062; ESTC S110087 184,006 300

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sacrifices and executed the ceremonies he had also therein the souereintie and superioritie And thus much for answer to that obiection made of two high priestes But to make this matter more euident and to folowe my purpose this is not sainct Austens minde alone that the man should so fret and fume at him therefore For Gregorius Nazianzenus hath of Moyses and Aaron in plaine wordes that they wer bothe priestes and alleageth to proue it as sainct Austen did the Psalme where they ar so called with diuerse other auncient writers whome because I take the case to be cleare emongest the learned I here forbeare to alleage and am for this tyme contented to giue to our aduersaries the larger scope to put the case as though Moyses had being no priest corrected and reproued Aarō that was one that he prescribed to him what he should doe that he made him priest as it appeareth by the scriptures he did The which imagined to be true I aske this question whether it doe therefore folow that princes being lay men may at this day in matters of religion comptroll the bishoppes and prescribe vnto them what ordre they shall obserue and folow therein whether they maie also giue ordres to priestes and consecrate bishoppes now because Moyses consecrated Aaron then No trulie if yow will beleue Iohn Caluin it is an vntrue and a false collection ▪ For that Moyses saieth he had bothe the charges that is of thinges aswell ecclesiasticall and spirituall as ciuile and politike together to that I answer that it was done first by miracle and secōdarily that that was but temporall till such time as thinges wer better staied For afterward saieth he as sone as god had ordeined a forme such as he ●ould should continue there remained to Moyses but onely the ciuile gouernement concerning the priestehood it was necessarie that he should resigne that to his brother Aaron And good reason whie● for it passeth naturall power that one man should susteine bothe the charges Hetherto Caluin Now if it be so that this auctoritie of Moyses cam to him by miracle or that he had it by especiall commission then can we not yow wot of either of these two cases gather a necessary consequence And thus might we answer our aduersaries good readers euen by their owne Doctour But cleauing to the scriptures and auncient fathers of Christes churche we hold the first opinion that Moyses was a priest and that in that respect he had auctoritie ouer the priestes and not as he was a prince The next example that they alleage is of Iosue who being also a ciuile magistrate receiued they saie at the time that he was appoincted to gouerne the people expresse commaundement and by name of religion and worshiping of god But by what wordes that would I faine knowe For in that chapitre by them in their apologie alleaged can I finde no wordes wherebie there might be grounded in temporall men as we call them or ciuile magistrates anie such auctoritie ouer matters of religion as they labour to induce For first this is out of all question that in one of these two sentences it is which I shall here alleage or that elles it is not there to be looked for The first of the which two is this Confor●are esto robustus c. Be of good comfort and be strong that thow maiest kepe and doe all the lawe which Moyses my seruant hath commaunded the. Swarue not either to the right hande or to the lefte that thow maiest vnderstande all thinges that thow doest Is there here good readers any auctoritie giuē to meddle with religion was there not as much as this cometh to saied to euery one of the children of Israell that they should trulie obserue the cōmaundementes giuen to thē by Moyses Is there not as much saide to euery one of vs touching the obseruing of the commaundementes of almighty god and yet had neither the children of Israel then nor we nowe auctoritie ouer religion pardie The other sentence is this Non recedat volumen c. that is to saie let not the booke of this lawe departe from thy mouthe but thow shalt spend thy time bothe nighte and day in the meditation thereof that thow maiest kepe and doe all thinges that ar written therein Thē shalt thow directe thy waie and vnderstande the same Where I pray yow is Iosua here cōmaunded to meddle with religiō in that that he is bidden to study the scriptures Now surelie that is far fetcht and nedeth no greate refutacion For this know I well will they graunte and for a maxima and very principle is it holden in their religion that thiese wordes perteine to euerie man a like aswell to the cartar as to the king or duke and make as much for the one to be a king as theie doe for the other to entremeddle in the order of religion Well may euery man and easelie perceiue how much they would haue triumphed if they had had but one suche texte to serue their purpose for kinges as the catholikes haue for priestes out of the holie scriptures many If they could haue foūde but one place in all the whole corps of the scriptures where had bene saide that the lippes of the ciuile magistrate should kepe the knowledge of goddes moste holie will and pleasure and his mouthe be the treasour of the same as is saide of the priestes O lord howe is it likely that their lippes mouthes and tongues should haue sowned and clattered thereof long before this that ruffle so with the example of Iosue because or for no cause that he was willed to study the scriptures dissembling in the meane season the .27 cha of the booke of Numeri where in plaine wordes it is to be found that Iosue was subiect to Eleazarus the high priest at whose bidding the scripture saieth he should goe furth and come in he and all the children of Israel It foloweth that king Dauid brought home the arcke restored religion was present not onelie as to admonishe or encourage them that accompanied it but deliuered also to them psalmes and himnes disposed the order of euery thing instituted the ceremonies and solemnitees and ruled after a sorte the priestes That Dauid brought home the arcke it can not be denied to the house at the least of Obed Edom. Although in an other place we reade how Dauid being strooken with a merueilouse feare for that which so latelie before he had sene happen vnto Oza for the onelie staieng being no priest th'arcke which otherwise was in greate daunger to fall he would not presume to carie the same into the tabernacle prepared to receiue it but called vnto him Sadock and Abiathar the priestes willing them in expresse wordes to carie it to the place appointed therefore lest happely god might strike them once again for doing the like vnlaufull acte to that which thorough their absence before they had done
to them thiese perniciouse persuasiōs that they be here in earth by almighty god placed in his churche to be the heads thereof and not membres to be fathers and not children to rule in causes of religion and not to be ruled that to them it belongeth in the right of their crowune to approue doctrine or to condemne it to alter at their pleasure the state of religion by actes of parliament without the consent of their cleargie to depose bishops and put other in their places in their stiles and titles boldely to write them selues gouernours in their realmes in all things and causes aswell ecclesiasticall as temporall and yet no ordre all this while broken because forsoth theie be such as theie beare them in hand they ar that is to say the heades the rulers the shepherdes the fathers maisters and guides in religion Thiese be theie therefore good readers that as the prophete saith call bonum malum malum bonum tenebras lucem lucem ●enebras good euel and euel good darckenes light and light darckenes Thiese be they that as their Idol of Geneua in this poinct trulie giueth answer goe about to make princes iustle with god Finally thiese ar those lowsy brokers that leading as it wer by the hand their good and vertuous princes after this sweete poysoned bait from the most pleasaunt and fertile valeis of humilitie to the toppe of the highe barren and craggy mountaines of pryde and arrogācie showing them when they haue them there the riches and ornaments of the churche the landes and reuenues thereof by good and vertuous princes their predecessors and auncestors long time before for this entent especially thereto giuen that the ministres of Christes most holy word and blessed sacraments being by hauing of their owne deliuered from that comberouse care of prouisiō for them selues that afterward the holy ghost who was the procuror of such almoise and stirred from time to time the deuocion of good men thereto forsaw thorough the decay of pietie and coldenes of charitie towardes the latter ende of the world they wer likelie to fall into might thereby the more quietlie folow their vocation promise of all the same to make them the lordes and maisters if they will doe them homage and fall down and worship them that is to say harckē to their doctrine submit them selues thereto and graunt to it within their realmes and dominions fauorable entreteinement And that this is true good readers that they haue thus shamefully abused and deceiued their princes and not surmised or imagined by me to bring them in to hatred whome god I take to recorde I pity much and hate nothing I hope by his assistāce who is the giuer of all good thinges ●o plainely to proue that yow your selues shall at the eye see it and they if there remain yet in them anie sparcle of grace shall not be hable to denie it The which that I may the better perform I shall truly bring furth as it wer into the face of the open courte all such euidence of importance as either parte hath to alleage for them selfe so truely Itrust that the councel of th'other side shall haue no cause to complaine that either I haue suppressed and cōcealed their necessary proofes one waie or obscured their beauty in the bringing of thē furth on th' other But because an indifferent and vpright iudge must alwaies haue an earnest eye to the issue which is betwene vs who should gouerne in ecclesiasticall causes the prince or the priest it shall not be amisse because to be chief gouernour in thinges and causes ecclesiasticall is nothing elles but to haue the supreme iurisdiction thereto belonging to examine first in what poinctes that consisteth that so by conferring our euidence wyth the same whether it agre with euery parte with none with some and with which we maie at the length by good scanning comme to the knowledge of euery mans owne Iurisdiction therefore ecclesiasticall consisteth especially in thre poinctes in auctoritie to iudge ouer doctrine whych is sound and which is other in the power of the keyes that is to say as our sauiour him self hath expounded it in loosing and binding excommunicating and absoluing in making rules and lawes for the gouernement of the church and in the ministery of the word and the sacraments To the first of thiese three what title Kinges and princes haue it shall if theie haue anie be seene hereafter But for priestes yow shall see to begin withall an auncient commission out of the scriptures where almighty god speking to Aaron vsed thiese wordes Praeceptum sempiternum e●t in gener ationes vestra vt habeatis scientiam discernendi inter sanctum prophanum inter pollutum mundum doc●atisqué filios Israel omnia ●egitima mea that is to say it is a precept that shall euer endure thorough all your generations to haue the knowledge to discern and put difference betwene holy thinges and prophane betwene cleane and polluted and that yow teache the children of Israel all my commaundements To whome gaue almightie god here the power to iudge of doctrine whome commaunded he to teache anie other then Aaron and his race which wer priestes In the booke of Deuterō saieth he not also that if there arise any hard or doutefull question the priest must be consulted that he that of pride will spurn ageinst his ordinance shall suffer death therefore and agein in the same booke in an other place that apon the priestes word all causes shall hang. Ezechiel the prophete doeth he not witnesse the same ▪ and when there is anie controuersy sayth he they shall stay in my iudgements and giue iudgement Aggeus and Malachias prophetes bothe bid they vs enquier for the law of god at the priestes handes or at the kinges No assuredlie they send vs not to kinges which had they bene the chiefe gouernours in those matters without faile they would haue doen but to the priestes whose lippes they promise shall not misse to kepe the true knowledge because theie ar our lordes angels Haue we any such warrant of worldely princes No trulie And wer it not more thē necessary that we should if princes should rule them in matters of religion of whom thiese wordes be spoken But to procede is this auctoritie giue to them onely in the olde testament●ar they not put trow yow in as greate trust in the newe Or ar they thinck yow excluded and kinges admitted the●e●●● If it had bene so neuer would S. Paule t●at bles●ed apos●le haue made his accopte that god had placed in his churche first apostles next to them prophetes then doctours and so furth Emongest all the which although that frantick foole that preaching not many yea●e● sence at Powles crosse went about with his rayling Rhetoricke to make his audience as foolish as he was ma●de in bele●ing that this place should make ageinst the auctoritie of the pope because
vultibus omnium iracundiam ac ferociam miram prae se ferentibus Sic opinor discedunt milites à concione ducis ad praelium exhortati Quis vnquam vidit in eorum concionibus quenquam fundentem lachrimas tundentem pectus aut ingemiscentem I neuer was that is to saye in any of their churches but some times I haue sene them cōming from the sermons as possessed of some euell spirite the countenaunces of them all declaring a certeine angre and cruelty So I wene vse the souldiours to departe from the oration of their capitaine when they haue bene exhorted to the battell whe euer sawe in any of their sermons any of them weeping knocking his breaste or yet sighing Thus much hath Erasmus touching youre newe gospell I passe ouer here in silence the infamouse companie of common minstrelles and entrelude plaiers who be all brothers of youre fraternitie membres of youre corporation and in so good credite emongest yow that they haue their charge of dispensing the worde as well as yow So farre furth that in youre filthy and dirty donghill of stincking martyrs yow call players one of the engines set vp by god ageinst the triple crowne of the pope to bring him downe Let the ciuile lawes note such marchantes with infamie Yeat emongest yow they maie goe for honest men Let the canons forbidde them to accuse euen them that be faultie Yeat youre churche admitteth them to blaspheme Christes sacramentes to sclaundre and speake euell of his ministres I meane not here bishoppes onely and priestes but princes also and other magistrates to whome vnder god the charge of the common wealthe hath bene committed Finally let S. Cyprian saie as long as he list that it is neither agreable to the maiestie of god nor discipline of his gospell that such be admitted to the holye communion whereby the honour of the churche should by their filthy and infamouse cōtagion be defiled yeat is not youre communion so pure but that that honest kinde of men maye be●re yow company and sitte with yow euen at one messe nor youre churche so honorable or doctrine ●o parfecte that yow nede to feare the blemishing thereof in to whose handes or mouthes so euer it shall happen to come But all this I saye I passe ouer and shall goe forwarde in prosecuting of other causes that make me to abhorre youre doctrine THE nexte cause hathe bene apon the consideration of the parson of him that yow boaste to haue bene the author and founder of youre religion Was not he a lewde lecherouse frier an apostata Maried he not if by so honest a name I maie call so filthie a deede a nonne an acte besides the commaundementes of the scriptures so vnderstanden by the churche by the ciuile lawes also by Iouinian the emperour twelue hundred yeares agoe lacking three vnder the paine of deathe moste seuerelie forbidden Was he not one that passed all other in pride Deserued he not trowe yow for these qualitees that fauor and good grace at his fathers handes of the obteining whereof in diuerse passages of his worckes he reioiseth so much as of the conference that he saithe he had with his saide father the diuell when by force of his reasons he was constreined to write againste the Masse of the familiaritie that he showed him when it pleased him to kepe him so manie yeares companie as betwene them manie busshels of salt were eaten The which time we maie not thinke neither to hane bene idellie spēt betwe●ne them but as first in the Masse that so afterwarde he enstructed him sufficientlie in the rest Emongest which enstructions was it not trowe yow a lesson meete for such a scholemaister Si vxor nolit aut non possit ancilla venito If the wife will not yealde to her husbande the due debte of mariage or be not able let the maiden come And againe for the husband on the other side that if he be in that case that he can not rēdre to his wife the same that she shall first aske leaue of him to repaire to his brother or some other of his bloude for such carnall companie and that finally if she can not obteine it she shall get her a waie and marie clam Is not this trowe yow proufe good ynough that youre doctrine commeth from the diuell while youre selues graunte to haue receiued it frō Luther and he bothe by wordes and deedes that he had it from him Boaste now of him as long as yow list call him the man of god claime him for youre patrone and founder terme him prestantissimus vir ad illustr andum orbem terrarum a deo datus the moste excellent man and sent euen from god to lighten the darckenesse of the worlde as in youre Apologie you doe For as we enuie not youre fortune so persuade we oure selues that had all the worlde till his comming bene as yow woulde beare vs in hande it was ouerwhelmed with errours god woulde yeat haue chosen an other manner of piece to bring it in frame againe then he either in his life or doctrine showed himself to be and that he which shoulde haue done such an entreprise ought to haue conferred with the holie spirite of god not with the cursed and wicked spirite of Sathan THE roote of this youre doctrine was it not auarice mixed with enuiou●e hatred whilest Luther the author thereof partlie for that the office of publishing certeine indulgences graunted by Leo then pope was taken from the order of the Augustine friers of the which he was one and committed to the friers preachers of the ordre of S. Dominicke wherewitheall no small gaine went also awai● together from them partelie of enuie that theie of that religion shoulde be thought meter for the execution thereof then he or his And of such rootes shall we loke for good fruite Cast youre eye apon other countries where youre religion is now embrased Considre diligently by what meanes it founde first there entreteinement in some apon desier of reuengement in other by couetousnes by lechery and such like vices and in none by charitie and youre selfe I trust will saye with me that I had good reason to be moued by this consideration AN other cause why I haue abhorred youre doctrine and yeat doe is for that I finde by the auncient histories and alowed recordes of the fathers writinges that in many pointes of the same and in youre manners beside yow agree with the olde heretikes that haue heretofore troubled the churche of god with the Iues with the Ethnikes and paganes with tyrauntes and infidelles with Antichrist yea with Sathan him selfe If yow demaunde of euery one of these seuerall examples beholde here they follow Simon Magus To beginne first with Simon whome for his knowledge in Magike the histories haue called Magus for as much as of all heretikes he maye be rightly called the father as he that liuing in