alleadge for the Popes supremacie as in deede they must stande or fall togither Thus at the last hath he done with the question of methode order of a treatise whereby it appeareth for all his double order of Synthesis and Analysis that hee vnderstandeth little more of it then to sweepe things togither to make a heape of them Now followeth his examination of this sentence of the declaration that the Church of God was perfect in all hir regiment before there was any Christian Prince This hee sayeth is not trewe For proofe whereof hee taketh a double course First admitting that there were then no Christian Princes and so denyeth he that the Church was then perfect in all hir regiment without them vnderstanding it of the ordinarie externall regiment and not of the temporary extraordinarie supplyes of Apostles and such like His reason for this repeated infinitely in sundrie confused questions shufled according to his methode togither is in effect but this that thē there shold ryse no benefite nor commoditie to the church by Princes receyuing the faith of Christ I answere that this argument foloweth not for the benefit may be exceeding great as it is in deede in euery respect when Princes become according to the Prophete Nurses and Fosterfathers to the Church although the Church without them be saide to be perfect in all hir outwarde and ordinarie regiment And firste what reason he may haue to denie the ordinarie externall regiment of the Church of Christ to haue bin and to be perfect in it selfe before there were any Princes Christian let him consider of this that followeth That ordinarie externall regiment of the Church is perfect which proceedeth from our Sauiour Christ as Mediatour For in that respect he is sayde to be our Lorde and to be the head of his Church and to haue receyued all power both in heauen and earth Nowe he that is a Lorde gouerneth sufficientlie and perfectlie his seruauntes and the heade ruleth the body especiallie being such a one as hath all power But that ordinarie externall regiment of the Church whiche is meerely ecclesiasticall and consisteth in th' offices of such onlie as are ecclesiasticall officers proceedeth from our Sauiour Christ as Mediatour For the administration of the Church tending to bring all things subiect vnto God and which shall be giuen vp in th' end that God may bee all in all proceedeth from him only as Mediatour and not as God blessed for euer in which respect he abydeth for euer Therefore the ordinarie externall regiment of the church which is meerely ecclesiasticall and consisteth in the offices of such onely as are ecclesiasticall officers is a perfect ordinarie and externall regiment of the Church The power of Magistrates dependeth in deede also vpon him but in regarde of his Deitie and Godhead and not of the dispensation that was committed vnto him for our redemption Further euery thing is then perfect in his owne nature being seuerallie considered when it cōsisteth of all the partes that are naturall necessarie proper and essentiall vnto it and requireth not to the making of it perfect in his kinde any thing not necessarie nor essentiall to it but of another and diuers nature So euery creature in his owne nature is perfect when it hath all such partes and properties as are necessarie naturall to it The heauens in them the Sunne the Moone the starres In the earth a Man a Lyon a tree and such like are all perfect in their owne kinde when they are furnished with all such partes as are naturall and essentiall to them To the perfection of the world in deed any one creature is not inough because the world consisteth not of one creature onely nor of many but of all but considered in it self euery thing is perfect when it hath all things requisite to the constitution of his owne nature which being so in all other things muste needes be so likewise in diuerse societies powers and gouernmentes so as powers and administrations that are diuerse are euery one perfect in their nature when they haue all such things as are requisite for their nature But the ciuile and ecclesiasticall societies powers administrations and regimentes are distinct diuerse one from another For the ciuile is of God only it is onely temporall and ciuill yea euen when they deale with things ecclesiasticall yet is it but ciuilly and is giuen by ciuill constitutions The other is of our Sauiour Christ as mediatour it is meerely ecclesiasticall spirituall euen in ciuill things dealeth but in a spiritual maner and is bestowed by an ecclesiasticall maner of calling appointed by our Sauiour Christ for that purpose Further also in the time of Moses as touching the ordinarie gouernement these two powers were distinguished not only in persons families but in their tribes Therefore being in so many and some other respectes so diuers it is playne that the perfection of the one state and power dependeth not vppon the other For the gouernement of a people both in ciuill and ecclesiasticall matters in deede they are both requisite and the one must needes concurre with the other and helpe to the perfection of the other to that same ende But for their seuerall natures eyther of them may be perfect in their kinde without the other And whereas so many states of the heathen and other superstitious kingdomes haue bin and are yet at this day as perfect in their ciuill estate and gouernement for that whiche is essentiall to the same as any other where the perfect ecclesiasticall regiment is receyued Why of the other part should wee not esteeme the ordinarie regiment appointed for the church to be perfect in it selfe without the ciuill Wereby it is not to be vnderstoode that the ecclesiasticall gouernement is perfect without the ciuill so as the ciuill Magistrate should not bee needefull for gouernement of the people but the ecclesiasticall so perfect as for all purposes it onely should be needfull For the power of the Magistrat is most needfull in his kinde although the regiment of the Church be neuer so perfect that is as touching the ordinances and lawes whereby it should be ruled neuer so agreeable to the worde of god yea although the Magistrate were not Christian and much more if hee bee christian Because the people of God hauing bodyes goods as well as soules and spirituall benefites stande in neede of a ciuill power to protect and defende them with an arme of fleshe and bloud from iniuries in that kinde and to mainteine them for the things that properlie concerne this life according to a course agreeable to entertayne preserue the good estate thereof Whiche is not onely of men whose necessities enforce them herevnto but it is so th'ordinance of Almightie God But for ecclesiasticall gouernement and th'administration of things which belong to that power the order appointed by our Sauiour Christ is sufficient and perfect This may best appeare in the
Gentiles and dwell in the desolate Cities Whereby it is manifest that the Gentiles maruelouslie increased the ioye of the Church by their conuersion to the faith of our Sauiour Iesus Christ and brought exceeding great helpe benefite strength protection defence and furtherance to the holy faith which they receyued notwithstanding that they made no newe orders in the Church nor were not to make anie but rested as it was duetie in them in that perfect order which our Sauiour Christ before had established amongest his people Wherein they caried them selues according to that duetie whiche the Proselytes yeelded and were to yeelde to the auncient church and Synagogue of the Iewes For if anie in that time adioyned them selues to the people of God to worship the trewe God as he had declared it to his people he would be worshipped They adioyned them selues as members to keepe followe and obeye the orders they founde alreadie settled amongest his people by the ordinance of Almightie God and not as maisters or Lordes ouer the holy Religion they embraced to take away the least curtayne-ring that was mentioned in the Lawe of Moses nor an inche of the height length or breadth the iust measure whereof was alreadie set downe nor to adde anie newe office ryte order or ceremonie or to alter in anie sorte whatsoeuer was accordinge to the Lawe of the Lorde Whiche is to bee vnderstoode not onely of the common people of other countries that should bee conuerted to the faith and religion of the Iewes but of the most Noble amongest them such as was Naaman the Syrian vpon whom the King his Maister leaned when he worshipped his idoll 2. Kin. 5.18 or the Noble man that was Treasurer of Queene Candaces Queene of the Aethyopians Nay I adde further Actes 8.27 that if Naaman had persuaded his maister the King of Syria or that noble man the Queene of Aethyopia to haue receyued the religion of the Iewes and to haue turned their whole people with them to the same or if Cyrus that great Monarche or the Queene of Saba famous for hir wisedome and ritches 1. Reg. 10.1 who both had dealinges with Gods people had so receyued their fayth and would haue established it amongest all their people in all their Dominions it had not bene lawfull for them to haue altered the least iote or title of the Lawe of Moses but euen they must haue yeelded them selues and all their people obedient to all thinges prescribed in it notwithstanding their soueraignitie whiche they had ouer their people and which should haue continued with them and neyther haue diminished nor increased for their conuersion to the faith but remayned altogither such as it was lawfullie at anie time before ouer their people Onely they were to mainteyne that holye profession whiche they had so receyued not as other priuate men but as Soueraigne Magistrates honouringe GOD in the maintenance of his trewe Religion with that power and authoritie whiche they had receyued at his handes For as no man that him selfe is sufficient for wisedome and all other respectes taketh a seruaunt into his house or adopteth him a sonne or being a Prince receyueth a forreyner and incorporateth him into his people by making him free whatsoeuer qualitie or condition hee were of yea although hee were a Soueraigne Prince and Gouernour to alter anie order of his house or anie lawe or statute in his kingdome but to enioye the comfort and benefite of his house or kingdome the orders and lawes thereof such as hee hath thought meete and conuenient for the gouernement thereof So neyther Cyrus that Persian Emperour nor Candaces the Ethiopian Queene being receyued by such profession of true religion into the house and kingdome of God who is onely wyse and all sufficient to gouerne his owne were to alter any order of Lawe of the same for all their Princelie Soueraigntie but to keepe in their persons and to enforce their people by their ciuile power to obserue all such orders lawes and statutes as God had commaunded to be obserued in his house and kingdome For howe great soeuer their power were they had a Lord paramont ouer them in respect of whom they were vassalls and seruauntes who being compared with their people were Lords and Princes ouer them Whiche appeared in those who were not sinners of the Gentiles but Iewes by nature of whom when any attempted the alteration of anie thing as diuerse of the Kings of Iuda did namely Achaz and Vzza 2. King 16.1 2. Sam. 6.7 they were reprooued and grieuouslie punished for it Notwithstanding which matter that they who were naturall Princes of the Iewes or if any of the Gentiles had bin conuerted to their faith had no power to adde or take away or in any sorte to alter the least thing whiche God had appointed yet both exceeding great was the benefite of the King amongest the Iewes And very profitable the conuersion of the Princes of the Gentiles would haue bin vnto them The same is to be sayde of Christian Princes For our Sauiour Christ before the conuersion of any of them hauing settled offices orders and lawes for the guydance of his church in a perfect maner their conuersion getteth them no power to alter any jote of that he before had established Who if they haue beleeued in him is their Lorde to whom they owe all homage seruice and obedience but are in as great duetie as any other to keepe and to maynteyne them obseruing the same in their owne persons which belongeth vnto them and by their publique authoritie enforcing ciuillie all such as are subiect vnto them to like obedience Which seruice being done to the Sonne of GOD who is King of Kings and Lord of Lordes is no vnseemely thing for them but both profitable honourable for them and for all their people Yet is not therefore the conuersion of Princes to the faith of Christ a matter of no benefite or cōmoditie to the Church Nay the commoditie is infinite to the Church of such a Prince as I haue spoken of as entreth into the Church not as a Lorde and maister ouer Gods house to alter and chaunge at his pleasure but as a duetifull childe to keepe and see other to keepe in Gods house that which God hath commaunded to bee obserued For bringing togyther with him selfe the whole people that is subiect to him not onely the comfort but the helpe and benefite of the church is vnspeakeably increased Which is playne in that there is added to the maintenance of the Church and the trewe seruice of God in it the wealth the strength the wysedome the fauour and all the abilities of a whole people Of whom such as are truelie conuerted vnto God will holde nothing deare nor precious vnto them no not their owne lyues in comparison of the maintenance of Gods true Religion and worship and the faithfull professours of it but will employe all the good meanes which God hath blessed them
gouernement of the people of God amongest the Iewes wherein God him selfe ordeined not onely both powers but appoynted seuerall lawes and persons for th'administration of them both which being of God and most perfect in euery respect it must needes be cōfessed that eyther was perfect in his kinde and for such purpose as hee had appoynted them To the good gouernement of that people for all purposes both powers were necessarie and neyther the ciuill perfect without the ecclesiasticall nor the ecclesiasticall without the ciuill but eyther of them perfect for that end and purpose for which eyther was appointed of God Nowe our Sauiour Christ altering the forme of the ecclesiasticall gouernement and so much of the ciuile as depended vpon it or onely concerned that people is to be thought to haue giuen as an administration of his church no lesse perfect for like vse then that was which before was giuen to the Fathers Wherevppon it followeth that the ordinarie ecclesiasticall gouernement of the Church was perfect before there were any Princes become Christians Moreouer th' ordinarie externall administration and regiment of the Churches is then perfect when all ordinarie externall things belonging to the Church haue their officers orders meete for the due administration of them But the primitiue Church before there were any soueraigne Princes become Christians had their officers and orders meete for all the ordinarie and externall regiment of the Church For what is belōging to the outward ordinarie regiment of the church But the ministerie of the worde of the Sacramentes of the Discipline and the reliefe of the poore For all whiche vses the primitiue Church was sufficientlie and perfectlie furnished hauing Pastours Teachers Elders Deacons Whereof as the Church of Ierusalem is a perfect president and the rest of the Churches planted by the Apostles so was namely that of the Colossians of whom the Apostle sayeth That he reioyced to see the stayednes of their faith and the order that was amongest them If it had bin otherwise the church for the space of about 300. yeares should haue bin left vnperfect beinge without anie perfect ordinarie extetnall regiment for so long time and that also such as most of all required such an order by reason of the persecutions which could not stande with the wisedome and loue of our Sauiour Christe towardes his church As it can not stande with his office of Mediatour that to the perfection of the outwarde ordinarie regiment of the Church there should be requisite any other officers then such as he by vertue of that office appointed which are only ecclesiasticall officers as hath bin saide the temporall powers being ordayned by him onely as God and not depending of his office of mediation and redemptiō of mankind When he did so blesse his people as that both the ciuill ecclesiasticall gouernement procedde immediatly frō him selfe yet was eyther of these perfect in their kinde for such vse as they were appointed without the other which appeared in the ecclesiasticall regiment as in other ages so in the times of Phineas and Jehoiada For conclusion of this poynt I adde that such outward ordinarie regiment of the Church must needes bee perfect as is established according to all the commaundements and ordinances of our Sauiour Christ and such as sufficeth for the due full and perfect execution of them and whiche bringeth these who are gouerned by it to hyest persecution namelie to the saluation of their soules But all these things did the outwarde ordinarie regiment of the primitiue Church performe before there were any Christian Princes Therefore before such time the outwarde ordinarie regiment of the Churche was perfect Concerning the seconde poynt that notwithstanding the outwarde ordinarie regiment of the Church was perfect before Princes became Christians that followeth not therefore that the Church hath no benefite helpe nor comfort by their conuersion to the faith of Christ but is to bee acknowledged that exceeding great and gracious is the fauour whiche GOD doeth to his Church when Princes are ioyned to it The outwarde ordinarie regiment of the Church for the time of the Lawe which was shewed to Moses in the mount according to which he was commaunded to see all things performed and is saide to haue accomplished it accordinglie was so perfect as proceeding immediatlie from God wholy onely perfect could not bee made any more perfect by anie creature whatsoeuer It was perfect therefore when that the Arke was at Silo in the time of the Judges after in the time of Dauid when it was brought to Syon But yet can it not bee saide that the Church receyued no increase of comfort by Salomon For when in steede of a Tabernacle Salomon had buylded a Temple of stone for the buylding and for all the furniture of it for the matter and for the workmanship of as great magnificence and state as nature and any skill of man was able to worke it although there was nothing added to the perfection of the paterne giuen to Moses yet was the ioy and comfort of the Church exceedingly increased In the time of the Apostles whyle the Church was yet in Ierusalem onely the regiment established in it was perfect and after when Churches began to be settled amongest the Iewes in the lande of Jurie and in other partes before the conuersion of the Gentiles the regiment outward and ordinarie established in them was perfect and receyued no increase of perfection in it selfe by addition of all the worlde vnto the faith But yet infinitely was the ioye and comfort of Gods people increased by it For if Angells in heauen reioyce at the conuersion of one sinner howe great doe we thinke the ioye of heauen and earth of men and Angells must needes haue bin for the conuersion of the worlde Neyther was it onely so great an increase of the comfort of the church but withall of infinite benefite and helpe For by this meanes the Church and the regiment established in it obteyned as manie protectours friendes and mainteyners of it as there were soules amongest the Gentiles that receyued the obedience of faith who all brought with them to mainteyne honour the faith they had receyued to the blessed hope of euerlasting lyfe all the giftes which God had bestowed vpon them The ritche their ritches and treasure the strong their strength the wyse their counsell and aduyse the eloquent their persuading speache the learned their knowledge the Magistrates their authoritie Whereof the Prophetes foretolde sayinge Reioyce Esay 54.1.2 ô barren that diddest not beare breake forth into ioy reioyce thou that diddest not trauayle with childe for the desolate hath moe children then the married wyfe saith the Lorde Enlarge the place of thy Tentes and let them spreade out the curtaynes of thine habitations spare not stretche out thy cordes and make fast thy stakes For thou shalt increase on the right hande and on the left and thy seede shall possesse the
first sought how by his pioners ordināce to cast down some of the principall strengthes one after another before he could enter it seate him self in the middst of the temple of God And as where a citie is well policied gouerned hauing good and wholsome lawes statutes for the ruling of it and worthy Magistrates that gouerne wisely and iustly according to the same If any man would oppresse such a state and make him selfe maister of it in vaine should he attempt to doe it whyle those lawes and Magistrates doe continue And therefore would corrupte firste some of the Magistrates by degrees and then afterwarde worke such alteratiō in the lawes as might be lest sensible that by such meanes he might in the ende by his subtle and cunninge practises attayne to that tyrannous rule which if he should make shew of in the beginning he could not doe by any force euen so hath Sathan by his secrete and sutle meanes and practises seeking to tyrannise the citie of God first corrupted such as were of speciall trust in it and had greatest charges committed to them and after by their meanes altered by litle and litle the orders and lawes of the Citie in such sorte as at the last he set vp the kingdome of Antichrist and brought in all kinde of false doctrine and confusion When Iulius Caesar purposed to oppresse the state of Rome he vsed many preparations and meanes vnto it whiche were not easie to be discerned yea such as might seeme to be great stayes to the preseruation of it His greatnes rising by alliances and employmentes abroade the encreasing of his forces the dispensing with home lawes in his respect the continuance of his Dictatorship and such like were in apparance the meanes to vpholde and mainteyne the state of Rome and some of them might haue bin so in deede if they had bin bestowed vpon a subiect faithfull and loyall But in an ambitious mind they so increased his greatnes and his strength as the state it selfe became to weake for him Such a tree as Daniel had shewed vnto him in a visiō to represent the kingdome of Nebuchadnezzar Dan. 4.8.9 Eze. 31.6 and as Ezekiell mentioneth to like purpose in his prophecie whose bowes and braūches are like great trees and the armes of it as the Cedars of Libanus so as all the foules of the heauens make their nestes in them all the beastes of the fielde lye in the shadowe of the same such a tree I say groweth not vp in a night like the gourde of Ionas but in many yeeres Iona. 4.10 receiuing frō day to day some increases though not sensible to the eye in any one instant or in a day or in a weeke yet in time it appeareth that it did encrease and at last groweth to huge bignes Nowe to demaunde what daye or what yeare it grewe in were a question that should haue small reason in it such a tree being many yeares a growing so as it can not be saide that it grewe in such a yeare but onely that it was growing so many yeares till at the last it came to excessiue greatnes Euen thus hath it come to passe in the kingdome of Antichrist the Nebuchadnezzar that hath burnt the Citie of God and the king of Babilon the citie of all confusion in the West To demande therefore as the Replyer doeth as Papists do some certaintie of the time when this kingdome grewe and of euery thing it consumed as he saith here of th' office of Elders whereby it grewe and increased is an impertinent question and can not proue that therefore Sathan did not by chaunge of Gods ordinance in this behalfe increase and strengthen him selfe It suffiseth vs to shewe that in so many yeares this tree was a growing in whose bowes at the last euery foule and hatefull birde nowe doeth nestle and that a meanes of the immeasurable greatnes of it hath bin the chaunging of th'ordinances of God Whiche appeareth manifestlie in this that these offices for the Declaration speaketh of the ordinance of God chaūged in them all are clearlie declared to haue bin vsed in the Churches in the time of the Apostles as ordinarie offices and that the same being now of manie yeares not in vse eyther in part or altogither afore this last restoring of the Gospell agayne in this age they are all founde to be transferred to others who by them selues or their officers disposed of all that the other were wont to doe Which chaunge for the name of Bishop was common to all the Ministers of the worde as it is euident in the 20. of the Actes and other places Phil. 1.1 1. Tim. 3.1 The arrogating of this name by any one of that calling as a peculiar title to him selfe was some chaūg of gods ordināce preparatiō to that which folowed The same name in the Scriptures is neuer giuen vnto any in respect of the Ministers of the worde as to note one set ouer them to see them doe their dueties as the high Priest sometime in the lawe of Moses but alwayes in regarde of the people and the flocke the charge ouerfight and guydance of whom onely was committed to them When this ordinance of God was so farre chaunged that by this worde was noted one set ouer both the flockes and the shepheardes endewed with a power and authoritie to direct correct both as might seeme good vnto him so much more as was diminished of the ordināce of god was added to the aduancement of the misterie which Sathan cunningly by such degrees sought to aduance But when these Bishops contented not them selues to take the name to them as peculiar and an authoritie not onelie of the Church they stoode charged with and the Ministers of the worde with them in the same but taking all occasions which might further their ambition as of hauing moderated the Synodes of certaine circuites of the fewnes of sufficient Preachers of the voluntarie respect whiche was borne them for their pietie and giftes of resort from sundrie partes neare vnto them for their counsell of the preheminence wealth and state of the Cities wherein they were seated and such like challenged to them selues the like authoritie ouer the churches and Ministers of a large circuite this steppe was not farre from the seate whereon the man of sinne was to sitte him downe Another degree aboue this was it when as Bishoppes had dealt with their fellowes the Pastours of the Churches so likewise other dealt with them and became Archbishops chalenging and exercising authoritie ouer all the Churches Pastours and Bishops of a whole Prouince But when as Archbishops of Prouinces were in like sort subiected to other as they had made the Bishops subiect to them and that foure Patriarkes diuided all Christian churches in the worlde amongest them selues ranging Archbishops vnder them doing vnto them as they had done to the Bishops and the Bishopps to the Pastours it remained only
enioye the kingdome nor to beare ciuill offices but the causes of God and the causes of the King had their seuerall triall officers and Iudges But this a Bishop or Archbishop euen by his ordination is not onely not bounde vnto but of the contrarie being ordayned to exercise the office of a Bishoppe according to the worde of God and the ordinances of this Realme is to meddle with ciuill iustice For the worde of God not speaking any one worde of such an office and the ordinances of the Realme laying vpon them offices charges in ciuill affaires they intermedle with all causes by reason of their office I might note many other repugnances in-their offices with the lawfull charges of Pastours and Teachers as their immoderate power in dealing with all ecclesiasticall causes of gouernement alone in ordayning Ministers giuing and calling in licences censuring suspending excōmunicating absoluing such like But these reasons may suffice to shew that otherwise then the Replyer mainteyneth Bishoppes and Archbishops such as he speaketh of are not nor can not in any iust and true account be reckoned Pastours Teachers Such in deede they may haue bin and were firste ordayned to be and therefore ought to haue continued in that calling But accepting of th' offices of Bishops and Archbishops wherin there are so many things as haue bin shewed repugnant to the functions of Pastours and Teachers they can not in any sorte be esteemed trew Pastours and Teachers of the church such as our Sauiour appointed for the worke of the Ministerie but are a thing degenerate and growen out of kinde a humane creature and an institution and ordinance of Kings and Princes Thus much may suffice to shewe that Bishops and Archbi hops are not Pastours and Teachers Whereby it is playne to be no consequence whiche the Replier maketh for them in this place that is because there were Pastors and Teachers in the primitiue Church that therefore there were Bishops and Archbishops also in that time Hee addeth they are such as haue bene Deacons too which being admitted it followeth not because they haue bin Deacons and nowe are Bishops or Archbishops that therefore Bishops and Archbishops were in the primitiue Church But I denie that euer they were right and lawfull Deacons For a Deacon is an ecclesiasticall officer attending the poore of the Church whose Deacon he is The trueth of this is most euident by the Deacons of Ierusalem of whose institution we reade in the sixt of the Actes where the Apostles discharging them selues of this care and seruice determined and boūded their office of Apostleship for euer after within the boundes of preachinge and prayers and the Deacons office in that which they discharge them selues of that is in the attendance of the poore Which appeareth also by the 12. to the Romanes where their office is limited in like maner Nowe the Deaconshippe hee speaketh of which they haue had is no such matter but a meere humane institution a degree to priesthoode a power to baptise and reade the publique Litargie without power to minister the Lordes Supper or to preach by vertue of that calling and is nothing like the ordinance of GOD for the reliefe of the poore Therefore euen that also is not trew whiche the Replier saieth that they haue bin Deacons too In deede they haue come by the Deacons bagge and got into their hands that which by th'ordinance of God and the auncient commons of the Church should be distributed by the Deacons to the comfort of the poore Which the Christian Magistrate is in all duetie to God to require at their handes to restore to the former right vse againe as he is other partes of their liuings and namelie that which ought to be the liuing of the Pastors Teachers which attende vpon the seruice of the people in teaching and instructing them in true religion whose liutngs being taken away and cast into those seas would be restored againe that the people giuing their goods to be taught in the knowledge of God not able to giue any more do not perishe for wante of teaching but may receyue the fruite of this their liberalitie But this because I haue not further occasiō in this place I forbeare to debate at large onely by occasion of their Deaconshippe I haue in a word noted their iust dealing as with the poore and the Deacons so also with the Pastors and Teachers with all the people of God Whereby appeareth that howsoeuer they are transformed now are neither Pastours Teachers Elders nor Deacons yet sauing the worke and labour of these callings in preaching vnto the people and watching ouer them with the Lordes watche and seruing the necessities of the poore they haue wholy deuoured them all All the power authoritie and liuing both of Pastours Teachers and Deacons yea and the treasure of the poore also being possessed and enioyed by them Thus haue I answered his two reasons alleadged to proue Bishops and Archbishops to haue bin in the primitiue Church In this place affirming them to be in their office and kinde of ministerie Pastours and Teachers yet saith he sith he is the ordainer or ordinarie of them and ouerseer both of them the people he is in dignitie of another office and kinde of ministerie different from them For answere wherevnto he is to vnderstande that the worde of God giueth not this authoritie to a Bishop to be ouerseer of the people and also of their Pastours and Teachers nor to any one man bearing ecclesiasticall office to be the ordainer or the ordinarie as he speaketh of the Ministers of the worde As touching the firste of ouersight the worde Ouerseer or as we call it Bishop Actes 20. is vsed diuers times in the Scriptures but alwayes in regard of the people Phil. 1.1 and of the Church and at no time of other Ministers of the worde If it be otherwise let him shewe where a Bishop or Ouerseer is named in respect of other Pastours and Teachers True it is that Pastours Teachers may offende through the corruption of nature that is in all men therfore are not exempted and freed by the worde of God neither frō ouersight nor punishment but are liable to all maner of censures of the church as any other of the congregatiō to the ciuil punishments of the lawes But their ouerseers in such cases are the ciuil Magistrat who is to see that they doe their duties or to enforce them to it by ciuill punishments their cause being firste duely heard tried and iudged Further the Eldership of that church whervpon they attende and all the greater Cōferences and Synodes wherevnto by good order agreed in the churhc they are made subiect haue the ouersight of them power to admonish censure with ecclesiasticall censures of deposition from their ministerie or of suspension and excommunication as their offence may deserue So as no man in the Churche nor in the
sayeth he these fight not betweene them selues but from the beginning were most nearily ioyned togither although the propertie of eyther be distinguished in the Church as is playne in the examples of Moses and Aaron Wherein Gellius godly and truelie proueth that these two ordinances of God are not enimies so that the one should not abyde the other but rather that from the beginning they were of good and friendlie agreement whiche is well prooued by Moses and Aaron who being brethren and eyther of them bearing the chiefe office in either state both ciuill and ecclesiasticall sheweth a naturall and brotherlie respect betweene these two states and that naturallie from the beginning they haue mainteined comforted cherished one another This is it onely which Gellius meaneth there whiche is as farre from the Repliers collection as those two states are sayde by Gellius and are in deede neare one to another as may appeare most euidentlie by sundrie other circumstances of that place and the direct opposition of these wordes they fight not betweene them selues to these but haue bin alwayes most nearely ioyned togither and the adiectiue there vsed in the superlatiue degree of comparison in which sorte no man speaking Latin would saye that these two had bin alwayes togither but in the positiue To like purpose he noteth out of another place a little after in the margent the ciuill and ecclesiasticall power ioyned alwayes in the Church and in the texte of the wordes of his translation setteth downe in a diuerse letter these words haue alwayes bin ioyned togither Wherevpon he gathereth thus If it were alwayes ioyned togither that is to say the Magistracie ecclesiasticall ministerie it was euen then ioyned when our brethren auouch that it was not onely disioyned but that the one was perfect when the other was not at all Wherein hee committeth the same grosse ouersight that hee did in the former place For Gellius in this place gathereth his generall conclusion of sundrie argumentes alleadged before Whereof this hauing bin of the good agreement that hath alwayes bin in the Church from the beginning betweene these two functions togither with the rest he reckoneth vp this almost in the same wordes he had set it downe in before Whiche seeing it can haue no other sense in the conclusion then it had before it is playne no such thing can bee gathered of it as the Replyer pretendeth As impertinent are his other collections and obseruations out of the same authour as that those churches so much commended before by the Declaration are troubled with Anabaptistes His purpose was to prooue that there were Chrstian Princes in the primitiue Church but how farre wyde roueth he from this marke in telling vs of another matter of Anabaptistes Of whom yet that hee sayeth is not trewe that the Churches commended before by the Declaration are the same that are sayd by Gellius there by accident to be troubled with that secte But if it were should that discommende their reformation according to Gods worde Nay rather it commendeth them that they are so amongest them as that they are not hidden nor alowed nor suffered so to continue but discouered and disprooued in worde and in writing and in publike disputation for their recouerie if it were possible or els for the keeping of those who are yet sincere not to be seduced by them Yet if this must needes be an embasing of the honour of the reformation of those Churches I would he could say for ours that there are none of the familie no recusants yea no Anabaptistes nor Libertines nor of anie other erronious secte amongst vs or could shewe in any part of the worlde anie fielde of the Lordes where the Enimie soweth not tares amongst the wheate or anie flooore where the wheate is not mingled with chaffe and that not onely in regarde of euil life but also of erroneous doctrines according as it was sayde to the church of Corinth there must be heresies amōgst you that they who are tryed and sounde in fayth may bee made manifest His next obseruation out of Gellius is that the state of the olde Testament and new is all one which as Gellius there teacheth that is concerning the way of iustification and the obedience to the morall lawe is very trewe but nothinge to the Replyers purpose The next obseruation which is that God did by an extraordinarie power punishe the wicked where the ordinarie was wanting that is as he expoundeth by the Apostles Peeter and Paule punishe Ananias Saphyra and Elymas when the chief and ordinarie Magistrates ouer them were not Christian Princes is not onely nothing for his purpose as the former but directlie against him For him selfe confesseth contrarie to that he pretended to proue in the beginning and by a former obseruation out of Gellius that alwayes the two functions of Magistracy and ministerie haue bin ioyned in the church and his collection vpon that Therefore euen in that time when it is denyed by the Declaration to haue bin so He nowe confesseth that the chiefe and ordinarie Magistrates were not then Christian Princes If he had not confessed it the trueth hereof is manifest by the Actes of the Apostles in Paules appealing to Caesar and all the stories of that age But his owne confession against him selfe Actes 25.11 was not to be pretermitted Yet as if hee knewe not his owne voyce or would denie his owne hande he continueth his purpose to prooue out of Gellius the former vntrueth that Princes should haue bin Christians in that time To which purpose although it be in deede nothing to the purpose he noteth out of him that contrarie to the assertion of the Declaration Gellius sheweth that there were Magistrates in the time of Christ and the Apostles As if the Declaration denyed that the worlde was then gouuerned by Magistrates as it hath alwayes bin or that any bearinge any ciuill office receyued the fayth of Christ and yet continued their calling Neyther of these is denyed by the Declaratiō to whiche ende Gellius fitlie alleadgeth the examples of Cornelius other but the Declaration speaketh expreslie of soueraigne Princes saying But of the supreame authoritie of Christian Princes and after in the wordes which the Replier hath vndertaken to disproue that the Church of God was perfect in all hir regiment before there was anie Christian Prince Yet of this most impertinent reply and of this his so fruitlesse labour this is to be noted that he confesseth the question to bee concerning the tyme of Christ and the Apostles time In whose time if he pretende any soueraigne Prince to haue bin Christian he were worthie a better rewarde then he can by any reason looke for But where as he reprochfully and despitefullie setteth it downe that Gellius proceeding commeth to the Anabaptistes obiection of this selfe same reason that our brethren in this learned discourse doe vrge that is that the Church of God was perfect in all hir regiment before there
things that concerne religion that we may liue vnder them a peaceable and quiet life in all pietie and honestie For of such things haue they charge also especiallie Magistrates which are of good Religion For which cause the Kings were commaunded in the law of Moses to haue by them a copye of the lawe and charged to see the same obserued Deut. 17.18 not in one part onely which concerneth the dueties of the seconde table but also of the first All which things whyle Magistrates procure and further by their ciuill power and authoritie blessed are they in so holy and honourable seruice and blessed is the Church that receyueth so exceeding great helpe benefite and comfort by them A litle quarell here is in the next place against the wordes most blessed Wherevnto it is replyed that the Church can not be sayde to be most blessed till it be in heauen But he is to vnderstande that it is not spoken of the Church simply but in some respect Which also he graunteth a little after sayinge him selfe of the primitiue church that it seemed in most blessed estate in some respectes As therefore the Church may be sayde to be in most blessed estate when it is ordered in all thinges according to Gods cōmaundement whiche is the greatest blessing it may haue in this lyfe so the Declaration speaketh of the Churches which are blessed in that respect The state of the auncient Church of the Iewes was then in most blessed estate in such respecte when all things in it aunswered the paterne shewed to Moses in the mountayne and the primitiue Church when it was ordered according to the rules of our Sauiour Christ So are the Churches of this age sayde for the same respect to be in most blessed estate From this he returneth againe to his question so often mooued before what vse then there may be of the Christian Magistrate For which he is to be returned agayne in like maner to his former aunswere Which is that th' vse of them is exceeding great in euery sorte and would be yet a great deale more if their godly proceedings were not hindered by misinformations of such who for their place and the trust reposed in them ought both to knowe and declare the will of God to Christian Princes to the furthering of the reformatiō of such abuses the continuance whereof prouoketh the wrath of God against both the Prince the people Who mainteyning that all is well when in the gouernance of the Church so manie things are amisse and neede most speedy reformation abuse them selues and the Princes whom they ought faithefullie to serue as Azariah and Hananias the Prophetes did Asa King of Juda 2. Chro. 15. 1 Cap. 16 7. Ierem. 1. 2. Ieremie Josiah with sundrie other and so hasten vpō them their people the fierie flying vengeance that for such enormities may come so mightily and suddainly that there wil be no turning of it backe nor escaping from it Wherein God be mercifull and spare his sanctuarie that it be not made desolate for the Lordes sake but to returne to the seruice Dan. 9.17 whereby for my parte I may endeuour to procure so great a blessing in maintenance of the trueth of God in the cause of the further reformatiō needful in the discipline as it hath bin thorowe the goodnes of God made in the doctrine I proceed to answere his next poynt of reply to this argument This replie is an iniurious and a bitter discourse of the difference of the state of the Church in persecution and in peace which he affirmeth to be hir most blessed estate It is set out by opposition of Princes persecuting and protecting the Church as of Pharao and Moses Saul and Dauid Manasses and Ezechias the Turke Sophi and Cham and the Christian Princes in Englande Germanie Scotlande Denmarke c. The end wherof is to charge the Declaration with a grosse and foule absurditie as if it affirmed the Church in times past to haue bene in better state vnder Tyrants and persecutours then vnder godly and vertuous Princes and in this age vnder the heathen then vnder Christian Princes Wherevppon he cryeth out O blinde what should I call it malice no but selfe-willed opinion that to deface the good estate of the church of God wherein we are vnder such a right defendor of the faith defended and shielded from all our enimies in a farre more blessed estate then we deserue will make such an odious comparison as this is But as the olde saying is Itch and ease can no man please If a beame of a Bishoprike had not hindred his sight hee might haue seene more clearely both in many other places and in this that there is no such comparison made as he cauilleth about It is saide in the Declaration that the Church at this day standeth in most blessed estate where the ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers Whereat although he iestingly demaunde after his maner whether this be in Vtopia or where yet either he must be starke blinde or els hee must needes see that it is meant of the Countries neare vnto vs wherein the Churches are in some respect in most blessed estate Whiche blessednes if he scorne at for the persecution whiche they endure what will he answere to our Sauiour Christ saying Blessed shall ye be when men reuyle you Ma. 5.11.12 persecute you and say all maner of euill against you for my sake falslie Reioyce be glad for great is your reward in heauen For so persecuted they the Prophetes which were before you Further also in regard of the full reformation of the church both in the doctrine and discipline of our Sauiour Christ which the Lorde that is riche in mercie hath for their more aboundant cōfort giuen them to enioy in this their outward troublesome persecuted estate For these and such like respectes declared vpon occasion before in this treatise the Declaration calleth their estate most blessed In reproch whereof he exhorteth the Ministers zealous of the further reformation of our church to be gone into those coūtries if they iudge the estate of thē to be better then our owne I maruell not if the successours of Amazia would fayne haue the successours of Amos to depart both out of the Court Amos 7.12 and countrey too For then might they more freely abuse whome they would But the duetie of our calling wherevnto almightie God of his great mercie hath called vs whiche is to serue especiallie the church of our own nation people amongest whom we are borne and brought vp whose language is ours by nature with whom we are to haue all thinges common both blessings and punishmentes as the seruaunts of God in Iewrie had will not suffer vs to hearken to his rude motion least we should with Jonas fly from the presence of the Lorde Further as the terrour of God so the loue of our people nation our kinred and acquaintance