Selected quad for the lemma: law_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
law_n	case_n	common_a	court_n	6,531	5	6.7270	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87639	Jurors judges of law and fact or, certain observations of certain differences in points of law between a certain reverend judg, called Andr. Horn, and an uncertain author of a certain paper, printed by one Francis Neale this year 1650. styled, A letter of due censure and redargution to Lievt. Col. John Lilburn, touching his tryall at Guild-Hall, London in Octob. 1649. subscribed H.P. Written by John Jones, gent. Not for any vindication of Mr. Lilburn against any injury which the said author doth him, who can best vindicate himself by due cours of law; if not rather leav it to God whose right is to revenge the wrongs of his servants. Nor of my self, but of what I have written much contrary to the tenents of this letter; and for the confirmation of the free people of England, that regard their libertie, propertie, and birthright, to beleev and stand to the truth that I have written, so far as they shall finde it ratified by the lawes of God and this land; and to beware of flatterers that endevor to seduce them under colour of good counsel, to betray their freedoms to perpetual slavery.	Jones, John, of Neyath, Brecon.	1650 (1650)	Wing J970; Thomason E1414_2; ESTC R209436	24,554	117

themselvs grieved by partialities or delaies of their Countrey Commissaries unto that Court kept in their own Hall of their then dwelling Mansion as it continued untill White-Hall came into the hands of King Henry 8. by Cardinall Woolsey his delinquencie which pleasing him better he madehis Court and gave not onely Westminster-Hall but also all the Pallace of Westminster that his Ancestors from Rufus to him contented themselvs to dwell in to be the Consistories of all his Courts when he found it chargable to remove them though he and his successors gained least by them But now no King being no Court that depended upon his Person or his deputies or Commissaries in respect of their prerogative Judicature reputed transcendent remedies for som transcendent Injuries committed and suffered amongst the people can be necessarie because triennial or more frequent Parliaments and speciall Commissions of Oyer and Terminer to be granted them when and as their Causes require may better supply them and with more speed and Justice and less charge and expence finish their Causes at or near their homes then all or any the Courts at Westminster ever did or could But if the Keepers of Englands Libertie be pleased to have any one or more Courts or Judges to be superintendents above all others besides Parliaments and speciall Oyers and Terminers Then they are to be desired to be also pleased to allow and pay them sufficient Wages at their own cost and not the peoples as Kings did when their Commissarie Judges were to have of never so many Parties in one Cause but 12d to be divided amongst them and that after the end of the suit and not before And a Pleader though a Sergeant at Law was sworn to plead as well as he could for his Master now called his Clyent and counted his servant and to abuse the Court with no fals or more delatorie then necessarie Pleas And was to have for every such Plea pleading but six pencel and for his sallarie or Wages for his attendance in every Cause first to last beginning to end as the Court should think fit considering the greatness of the Cause and merit of the Pleader c. as you may read in the Mirror p. 64. Now to return to your Mechanicks commonly as you say brought up illiterat surely it cannot be unknown to you that there are most commonly as many if not more Masters of Art in London that use Trades and handicrafts as practise Law at Westminster and compleater Retoritians Logitians Musitians Arithmetitians Geometricians Astronomers and Phisitians all which are the severall liberall sciences and the very Encyclopedie and summarie of all good and necessarie Arts and learning How then do you make it your consequence that if all Commissarie Judges be not adored as you would have them all learning and gentle extraction must be debased but ignorant and fordid birth must ascend to the Chair as if there were no learning but in Pedlers French and Law-Latin the very disguises of the Law which hath no such need of them as a foul face of a Mask or an hangman of a Vizard but contrariwise much necessarie to be rid of those Curtains which hide both the beautifull Shape and material substance of it from us that it may appear even to our understandings more gloriously more learnedly in plain English then in that Canting more obnoxious then that of beggars which would but cheat us of necessaries to sustain their lives whilst Law-Canters cheat both us and them of all our livelihoods and liberties to surfet themselvs with superfluities by making us all starvlings pined with that extream of wants the want of Justice for put the case that those hotch-potch French and Quelquechose Latin were banished and the Law rendred in English as Scriptures are which were hidden from us by Prelats as our Law by Lawyers would not all learning and argumentations in Law be as necessarie for the continual preservation of mens lives and estates and therefore continued in English as Sermons in Pulptis and disputes in Schools and Universities requisit for the salvation of our souls are Naywould not School-Masters to read and teach the Law in common Schools beas ne cessarie in London as Students in the Inns of Court or Chancerie or as such have been as you may read in the Lord Cooks Preamble upon Magna Charta and did read upon Magna Charta when it was read twice yearly in Churches and 4 times yearly untill full Counties untill the same King that assented to the making and was sworne to the observing of Magna Charta in the 9 year of his Raign by the advice of his Chief Justice Hugh d'Burgo whose advice and his followers ever led Kings to ruine and Subjects to hazards by his special Writ in the 19 year of his Raign prohibited the said publick reading and teaching as you may read in the same place Did not the Eunuch understand the Language he read yet wanted Philip to interpret the meaning And did not God send Philip to that end So no doubt although the Law be Englished the most part of English people will be Eunuchs in their understanding of it so fully as they ought untill and but whilst there be Philips to expound it for it is too great a Studie for men otherwise imployed to be expert in to resolv Causes which you call Intricate As you would make it for Coblers to dilucidate texts which many call hard Scriptures And who can doubt it to be Gods speciall gift and vocation in Law to som to be just and learned Lawyers as to others to be sincere and Orthodox Divines while the world shall consist of bodies necessarie to be regulated as of souls to be disciplined And then for your gentle extractions may not they be as they were ever wont since Marriages were ordained in Heaven may not a Judg bestow his daughter upon a Citizen and a Citizen his upon a Judg or an Earl as we have seen usuall but by your allegation that there is a general disesteem of gentrie more now then from the beginning of the World which Mr. Lilburn can be no cause of It is manifest you charge the present Government as faultie for suffering such a disesteem to be among the people wherein you do but traduce and wrong the State that neither desire nor countenance any such thing but when gentrie for the most part grows degenerat and nobilitie debaseth it self Corruptio unius est generatio alterius when Lords turn Boors and simplicians let Clowns turn Lords and Politicians And let him that will carp at the Vicissitude of things which divine providence hath ordained blame neither State in generall nor persons in particular but conceiv rather that Ablatâ Causâ tollitur effectus when vertue faileth the honor followeth when God took his holy Spirit from Saul both Spirit and Majestie were transferred to David in a larger measure and therupon be you further answered by an Hea then Tempora mutantur

shifting cavills shufling exceptions reprove him for using them in defence of his life I pray compare them together then consider what and whom you reprove you can not chuse but finde that for the matter it is not a shifting cavil or shufling exception but the solid fundamentall Law of England affirmed by all men that truly understand it to be most Consentaneous of all Laws to the Law of God And for the Persons it is not onely Mr. Lilburne that desired thereby to preserve or prolong his life but all the sage makers religious observers thereof whereby you perswade all your Countrimen present future to disesteem such exceptions even to save their lives and consequently to cast themselves away upon the wils and hast of Commissarie Judges who may be the onely or chief Accusers or Adversaries the Party questioned for his life can have which for any such Partie to do were to be more then mad and even the Author of his own death and of Gods Wrath upon his soul which if he so wilfullie lose what is it to him to gain a world in lieu thereof And why do you more falsly then Caiphas that told one truth in his life unknown to himself offer to perswade us to becom willing to sacrifice our selves one after another to the lying bloody constructions of that Generall and true Position Salus Populi c. The Health of the Nation is the chiefest Law which you vaunt to be the empress of all your Maxims whilst you construe it to the destruction of the Nation as they are very sensible thereof and make it onely healthie to rotten Commissarie Judges and corrupt Lawyers whom you make the sole Judges thereof for what Christian can bee so sensless as to believ or conceiv that the sacrificing of any one man in that manner onely for the suspition perhaps of no more then the Judge that findes himself most guilty of the Cause as of being more able then another to raise or cause War against us can avail us For Sir God delighteth not in bloody and dead sacrifices but in our humble penitent and lively Prayers who are or ought to be his living sacrifices And he that is as well the Lord of Hosts as the God of Peace is our loving Father and he will heare us when we call upon him in his Sons Name and open his gate of mercie unto us when we knock as we ought and whatsoever good we ask him in that name he will not onely give it us but moreover strengthen us as he did Jacob to wrastle with himself and to overcom his Anger which an Heathen could understand and say Flectitur iratus voce rogante Deus Gods Anger stoopeth to his Childrens Prayers And none but he can raise any warr against them nor will he further then their sins deserve his punishment and so farr Is there any evill in Israel but it is he that doth it What do you therefore but shew your self diffident of his mercifull omnipotence and rob him of his Glory when you attribute his power to man to make War or Peace and make your self wiser then he when you think to prevent his will by your policie and stronger then he if you could destroy whom he would save And therefore saith Melancton Men are but fooles Vinculacùm tendunt imposuisse Jovi when they suppose they can Chain the Dietie And who can but see that if it be granted you that every free man of England whom you or a Commissarie Judge or any other as bad shall suspect or be pleased to accuse for suspition of what you think good to invent you may accuse whom you will and hang whom you list and leave none to live but at Lawyers discretion whilst the truch is that so farr as any one man or more of any kind of men whatsoever can be called or accounted raisers or causers of War in England the Lord Cook Mr. Horne and other sound Lawyers tell you they ever were and will be corrupt and mercenarie Lawyers that sell delaie and denie Justice and the benesit of the great Charter of England to the People thereof the due punishment of whom of all Sycophants that sooth them up in their Errors would be Salus Populi for they are a considerable Army that have over-powred us these 500. years Hyperprelaticall Spirits Domineering Nimrods Undermining Pioners so that what was said of Rome since the Popish Prelacy ruled it may be said of England since Lawyers overswayed it viz. Servierant tibi Anglia priùs domini dominorum servis servorum nunc miseranda subes O thou that wert the Lady of Lords art the Slave of Slaves And a subtle and viperous generation that add Policie to their Power to gnaw their Mothers bowels and use to make dissentions and Factions between even their own Brethren to make work for themselvs to reconcile them or most commonly by the strength of the weakest to destroy the strongest till they be able to Master both and by right seldom and wrong constantly to make and keep themselves rich whosoever be poor to accuse and condemn all their superiors for tyrannie to make way for themselves to be the onely superviving supreme Tyrants and compleat Dionysians The onely Monopolizers of Law to sell delay and denie Justice to the Free Men of England their Slaves at their wills and pleasures in their Congregational Exchange Westminster Hall And whereas you say those shifting eavils shufling exceptions which Mr. Lilburne made use of to waste time and procure trouble to the Court were far from making any defence for him I pray you what defence could he desire thereby but to save his life And was not that done by the Verdict of a Jury that heard what he said for himself received all the Evidences that were given against him and were Charged and sworn to give their Verdict according to their Evidence was not that Verdict confirmed and ratified by the right Honorable the Councell of State by the assent of the most Honorable and Supreme Court of Parliament without which either by an implicit generall Warrant or a speciall Express no man can be so mad as to think they would inlarge him was not this as Full and fair a Triall as Mr. Lilburne could wish or any man Questioned for Treason had these 100. years or since Juries that understood Law no better then you were content to be bafled by Commissarie Judges and give what Verdict they pleased as well for mens lives as their lands did not his Exceptions and pleadings whatever you call them come near enough how ever the Court liked them to make him a sufficient defence in that mater doth it not follow that by your said saying you make your self a naked lyar and can so apparent a lyar be a Creditalb reprover of sin the Devill he can as soon doth it not further follow that Mr. Lilburne hath his Action of the Case against you for questioning him

desire them to put out of their assembly al mercenarie professors of Law that poison their Counsell no less then their predecessors did the King making them to do the same things which they condemned in him to the more grief of the People that were promised Reformation and are paid in more and wors deformation of their Laws and Liberties then they were before witness amongst manie more abuses the Fen Project of Lincolnshire c. condemned in the late King yet supported by more Malignant Royalists then in respect of Justice he himself could be any who are Judges Parties and partners of the prey made by themselvs of other mens Rights of whose service and affections both Parliament and Army have had no less experience then of their defects and delinquencies And move his Excellencie to desire the House further to command the keepers of the great Seal to issue forthwith Commissions of Oyer and Terminer as by Law they ought to all parties grieved that shall demand them directed to such Commissioners as the grieved parties shall nominat to enquire hear and determine the extortions oppressions and misdemeanors of Sheriffs under Sheriffs Gaolers and other Officers subject to popular offence And lastly to desire the said House to pass an Act for the setling of the Law hereafter in that plainness shortness and cheapness as hath been often desired in divers Petitions of Londoners and others and by my last Letter to his Excellencie bearing date about the beginning of this Month according to the propositions of 12 heads of Law there inclosed which I understand in Scotland were delivered to his Excellencies hands So God himself shall bless you and your Actions and the people present and future and even your selvs and your Children have cause to rejoice in your work and be thankfull to God and your industrie for so great a favor So shall Your Faithfull servant John Jones From my Lodging at Mr. Mundays hous in Clarkenwel this 29. of July 1650. JURORS JUDGES OF Law and Fact SIR HAving casually met with and perused your printed paper styled A Letter of due Censure and Redargution to Lieutenant Collone John Lilburne touching his Triall at Guild-Hall London in October last 1649. I could not chuse but take hold of your first Lines wherein you say God's strict Injunction obliges us all to reprove sin wheresoever we finde it And thereupon I must tell you that whatsoever you finde in Mr. Lilburne I can finde in you no less then sin against God whose name you abominably abuse to reprove truth and call good evill and evill good against Mr. Lilburne whom you make but your Instrument to play upon while you wound others through his sides yea even those most whom you flatter most Against the true and Ordinarie Judges of the Land the Jurors whose verdict is the effectual Judgement whereby all men are judged by their Peers aswell for their Lives as Lands without which Judgements the Law of England cannot be Lawfullie executed And generally against all the Free People of this Common-wealth whom you endeavour to blinde and enslave by your sophistrie unto usurped Authorities perswading as much as in you lyeth all your Countrie-men to submit and give away their Lives their birthrights Liberties and Freedoms for the preservation whereof all their just Laws and Civill Wars and especially this last were made to the insatiable Tyrannie of their incroaching Impostors as shall appear following viz. Page 3d of your Letter or rather Libell in the second head of those things for which you say Mr. Lilburne is liable to reproof you tell him he laid hold of divers shifting Cavills and shufling exceptions in Law which were onely fit to wast time and procure trouble to the Court Sir if Law alloweth Exceptions called delatories and lawfull Traverses as well in Pleas for Land as for Life as you may finde it doth and ought in Mr. Hornes Book called the Mirror of Justice written by him in French in Edward the First his time as you may observe in the Margent of the 6th page thereof and excellently translated into English lately by William Heughes Esquire a discreet and learned Lawyer living in Grayes Inn of which kinde of Exceptions some be Pleas for Actions and Appeales the Presidents whereof are briefly and diversly according to the diversity of their causes natures and uses demonstrated unto you in the said Book from p. 129. to p. 143. and thence to 146. are Exceptions or Pleas to Indictments the summary reason of all which is not as you call it to waste time and to procure trouble to Courts but to bestow time as it can be no better bestowed especially in Cases of life then to search out the truth of every Cause that mens lives be not rashly lost which cannot be recovered if condemned and executed how be it wrongfully or carelesly so that to be carefull circumspect and well advised in a Court is not to trouble it for it is its duty to be exercised as it is significantlie derived à Curando that is a Court of Care or Cure Indifferentlie either or rather both as it is Ordained Care to be troubled to hear and determine the Cares and troubles of all men within its verge for Controversies of Law that vex trouble an whole hundred of Friends and neighbours to see but two of them undoe themselves in suits at Law or kill one another with Care to examin them truly and to Judge them justly And likewise to cure the Malladie of the Consciences or at least the intemperance of the Litigious spirits of Plaintiffs and Defendants by ending their differences as may be most available for their Peace and the Common-wealth And as it is the duty of a Court to be troubled to end troubles so saith Mr. Horne p. 58. not to accuse any for matters of Crime and Life though a known offender learning of Christ in the Case of Magdalen Nor to countenance Bloody Accusers but to mollifie their Rigour as Christ did in the same Case for Judges that represent God and should imitate his mercy as well as his Justice ought not to desire the death of a sinner but rather that he may return from his wickedness and live and Conveniens homini est hominem servare voluptas Et meliùs nullà quaeritur Arte favor Nothing more Convenient for Man or acceptable to God then to save Penitents whom he came not to destroy but to call to Repentance Nor is it the part of a Judge as in p. 66. of my said Author to condemn one for the same or the like offence as the Judge knoweth himself guilty of And therefore Exceptions are lawfull to the Power of a Judge as in p. 133. to his person as in p. 135. and to his condition as in p. 59. And those that are granted to be lawfull to be propounded against his Power p. 133. are the same in substance which you say Mr. Lilburne made use of yet call them

Jurisdiction as now the Keepers of the Liberties of England have by the Authoritie of Parliament which is the Representative of the People given them by the People with a reservation of their ordinary lurisdiction viz. reserved in by and unto them in King Edward 1 his time and ever before and since by reason also of which soveraign and Royall Jurisdiction as you may further read Mirror p. 287. Kings were called and counted as now the Keepers of the Liberties of England ought to be fountains of Justice and ordained because they could not be alwaies every where themselvs as Moses did by Jethro's Councell Institute Captains over hundreds Fifties c. and now the Keepers of the Liberties of England do and must ordain Commissary Judges viz. Commissioners or Judges by their Commissions missions or Writs to supply their presence and do their office in their stead which in Courts is but to give their assents to the verdicts which are the judgments of Freemen upon their Peers whereby those Judgments being so compleated the executions thereof did do and must run in the name of the Soveraign Jurisdiction of the State And so Iustice may be administred in all places in their personall absence who are to be accounted present in their Commissaries who no more then their Masters can be counted Iudges of the people because parties against them and so made and named in and by all Indictments Writs c. as aforesaid Observe again that Commissary Iudges being ordained by their Masters to do Iustice if they fail of so doing by their partiallitie wilfullness or any other consideration as Pilat who was Caesars Commissary and others did whom you aptly compare to som of them then they have no jurisdiction or ordination at all so that they may be disgracefully and that lawfully pulled and thrown out of their abused places but in civilitie and respect of their Masters may be better forborn and referred to their Censures And what is dissenting or not assenting to Iurors verdicts but a denyal which is more then a failer of Iustice for the speeding whereof they must have no negative voice for ordinarie Iurisdiction that was the supreme i that gave the Sove raign which is superior to every singular person to Kings as now to the Keepers of the Liberties of England is still the superlative Iurisdiction beyond all comparison that can be inferior to no authoritie but Gods that gave it to his people to his Children not to be given by them to any above them in their generalitie but himself from whom they have received and to whom they must restore themsevs and all that is theirs but to be contrived and substituted by them unto the worthiest men amongst them to be imployed for and under them as they might finde most convenient for their worldly peace and subordinate government to which end they deputed Kings as now the Parliament hath don Keepers of the Liberties of England reserving so much of their ancient ordinary Iurisdiction to free men that none but such may be Iurors and none but such may be their Iudges for their lives lands and estates And therefore as the Keepers of our Liberties are subordinate to the Parliament so are their Commissaries to them and both in their Iudgments to the verdicts of the Iurors which is their true saying of the whole matter as well for Law as Fact and so is the full Iudgment of it both in Law and effect wanting onely the assent of the Soveraign Iurisdiction which is the onely party sup posed to be against the party guiltie or so reputed and hath that Majestie or if well considered that vassalage given unto it as to do or command to be don Execution which if the hangman refuse upon the Sheriffs command the Sheriff himself must doe and if he refuse or neglect the Commissarie Iudge must for as there is a Writ de procedendo ad judicium and an Alias plures and Attachment to compell him to give his judgment or more properly his assent as aforesaid to the Iuries verdict So that if he delay denie or faile to do or cause Execution to be don there is another Writ de executione Judicii and an Alias Plur ' and Attachment upon that to be had against him whereupon if a Commissary Iudg must be Attached for not giving his assent commonly called his Iudgment to a verdict for Fellonie c. or having given his Iudgement to the verdict shall denie or delay execution except in special things hereafter touched let him not onely be an hangman for his Fellows but be hanged himself for such was King Alfreds Iudgment in all Cases of injustice in his Commissary Iustices as you may read in the Mirror from p. 239. to p. 245. when he hanged 44 of them in one year But it is observable how Commissary Judges for Gaol deliveries do now a dayes use in the conclusion of their judgments upon Fellons convicted by luries verdicts and their assents to command Sheriffs to see execution and so to end their Sessions and get themselvs gon out of that County with all expedition and let the Sheriff and his hangman agree as they can bargain for doing the execution while the Commissary imposter proceedeth in his Circuit attributing all that he findeth the people conceiv to be injustice to the Sheriff or Iury or both but calling all judgments and proceedings that are pleasing to the people throughout his perambulation and the Ambit thereof even the Cirquit it self his own because the people assented to such Commissions as the devill doth the world his own because God gave him leave to compass it And as proud are such Lords justices of their Lordships in a kinde as he can be of his yet in right ought to be accounted but servants to their Masters as he to his And therefore whereas you say p. 24. though the verdict be given in upon the whole matter and so inclose Law as well as Fact yet the binding force of the verdict as to matter of Law may be derived from the sanction of the Judges not from the Iurisdiction of the Inquest And it may well be supposed that the Iurors may err in a matter of Law in which case the Iudges must alter the erroneous verdict by a contrary Iudgment and that Iudgment questionless shall nullifie the erroneous verdict not the erroneous verdict the Iudgement whereby it plainly appears That in a verdict upon the whole matter there is no new Iurisdiction acquired by the Iurors in matter of Law nor left to the Iudges sorasmuch as the Iudgment stands good and obligeth not as it is rendred by the Iurors but as it is confirmed by the Iudges Cana Man that would seem so Cornucopiously learned and wise as you do be such a fool as to make such a medley of nonsense surely should you but tell such a confused storie in one of the Inns of Chancerie the puniest Atturney there would hils you out of his mooting School

What error can be in the substance of a true saying but in the form there may and that the Iudges and the Clerks assume to be their office to make in Latin and such is the form and Latin they usually make thereof that every word or second are commonly erroneous and that of purpose for themselvs to make work for themselvs by spinning the Cause in suites and vain pleadings somtimes to seven years time that might have been begun and ended in a day and by beggering both parties to inrich themselvs by damnable Fees and extortions all that while Can the verdict which is the true saying of 12. Men upon the whole matter of Law and Fact be alter'd by a contrarie Iudgment as you expressly say you can but that must be fals and an untrue saying for what can be contrary to a true saying but a fals And which of them ought to be altered you say the verdict Whereupon let all men judg whether you are not a plain liar therein but suppose since you goe by suppositions that the saying of the Iurors is not true and therefore no verdict such as Iudges receive or rather arrest and cause to be given them for verdicts by Iurors impanniled by Sheriffs by Iudges directions for that purpose Can the Confirmation of a Commissary Iudg by his Iudgment make that good It s a Maxim in Law that what is naught in the foundation can never be made good by Confirmation but I confess many an honest man is hanged by such supposed verdicts and devilish Iudgments Can such Lies be called verdicts or such Iudgments be called true more then you can be called a just reprover or a due Censurer that reprove truth and justifie lying Can the Devill be a worse Censurer or Reprover What Iudgment mean you stands good in Mr. Lilburnes Case who had no Iudgment at all passed upon him but that verdict that saved him and the assent of the Councell of State and Parliament that confirmed it And what verdict or Iudgment do you finde fault with in all your Book over but that Surely you were in a frenzie when you wove this stuff not so good as Linsey Woolsey but if you would know what should be done in case a Jury should give in an untrue saying in stead of a verdict that being made to appear to a Commissary Judg by the Partie greived or his Councell learned to be undeniably true such a seeming verdict in c●se of life or land of Free-hold is traversable as also any verdict made defective informed by Lawyers as aforesaid and thereby sounding defective in matter and so counted erroneous by them that made it for that purpose to linger the matter for their own gain as you may read in Mr. Horns Mirror as aforesaid and in the Statutes of 41. Edward 3. fol. 5. and 6. of Henry 7. and 19. Henry the eight Howbeit for bloodshed in Leets there is no traverse because the fact is a manifest wrong and if laid upon a wrong person he may have his Attaint against the Jury and recover treble damages by the verdict of 24 better Jurors which remedie every party wronged by any Jury hath besides his Traverse And in case of life which may be lost by the malice or ignorance of som Juries purposly returned by som Sheriffs for their own ends if executed according to their saying and is never recoverable by Law The Commissary Iudg upon true information and proof thereof and not otherwise ought to stay Iudgment or execution or both untill he can likewise inform the Keepers of Englands Liberties of the truth of the Cause and repriev the Prisoner untill their pardon or Tollerance be obtained for him as was wont in the Kings time in like cases so that afterwards the Prisoner may have his Attaint as he ought against such a Iury whose Iudgment is terrible enough for example to others and sufficiently satisfactory to the Party viz. to repair his wrong and pay him treble damages To forfeit their lands and goods to the Lord of the Fee to have their houses demolished their woods rooted their bodies imprisoned during their lives And Iurors ought to try Attaints without Fee Ex officio as you may read in the Mirror p. 64. And so let so much serve in this place to inform you that the Iurisdiction of Iurors is to be Iudges and Verdictors of all controversies given them in charge upon their Oaths as well for matter of Law as Fact and as antient as and more permanent then Commissary Iudges for when Commissary Iudges had abused their places so that they were beaten out of them and Civill Wars therefore grew between Kings and people before Magna Charta and since untill the said second agreement made between Ed. 1. and them whereby Coroners and Sheriffs were reordained for they had been ordained before as appeareth by Magna Charta and long before that to defend the Country when they were dismissed of their guards c. for till then guards continued for the breach of Magna Charta begun by Hugh de Burgo's means and then Captains and Leiutenants became Sheriffs Coroners c. and Centinels Bailiffs c. But alwayes the Free men judged their neighbours constantly And therefore Mr. Lilburn neither did nor could give his Iurors any new Iurisdiction nor promote them to any preferment more then of right they had as you most falsly and maliciously however ignorantly accuse him and abuse both him and them to introduce the rest of your untruths which follow for next you say that thereby you perceiv his Levelling Philosophy is that Iudges because they understand Law are to be degraded and made servants to the Iurors but the jurors because they understand no Law are to be mounted aloft where they are to administer Law to the whole Kingdom the Iudges because they are commonly gentlemen by birth and have had honorable education are to be exposed to scorn but the Jurors because they be commonly mechanick bred up illiteratly to handy Crafts are to be placed at the Helm and consequently Learning and gentle extractions because they have been in esteem in all Nations from the beginning of the world til now must be debased but ignorance and sordid births must ascend the Chair and be lifted up to the eminentest Offices and places of power Coblers must now practise Physick in stead of Doctors Tradesmen must get into Pulpits instead of Divines and Plow-men must ride to Sessions instead of Iustices of Peace Sir I shall not meddle with Mr. Lilburns Philosophy but shall conceiv it more reasonable and therefore more tollerable then your sophistrie seeing it appeareth by your own setting forth his endeavour was not to degrade Judges because they understood Law but to inform them better because he conceived they understood not Law in his Case till they would be pleased to be better instructed by his learned Councell which as he aledged divers presidents for might have been as Lawfully allowed

for the same offence that he is acquitted of by so due a Course of Law Doth it not moreover follow that by traducing that Verdict and acquittall you consequentlie traduce not onely the Jurie but also the Councell of State and the Parliament that Confirmed the same as aforesaid And are not you therefore lyable not onely to the severall Actions of everie Juror but also of Scandalum magnatum But what need you care you are too cunning for them all in Concealing your name at large from them whom you slander at large and send your Book to them with a sine me Liber ibis in urbem so that they know not when where or how to finde you out by that uncertain notion or mark of H. P. Which for any thing I know may fignify some Soapstuff as well as any mans name but take heed least John smell you out and contemperate you in his Compounds for some simple corrasive ingredient which he useth not to any intent of malice but to eat off som of your proud flesh and not to destroy any sound part in you as you say in the title of your Book you use your reproof to him to make a speciall kind of soap to wash the brains of such Orators as perswade men to becom such fools as to make no use of Lawfull exceptions against their Judges especially Commissaries to save their lives and the tongues of such Sycophants as under pretence of reproving the meanest and weakest sort of sinners approve and improve the greatest and strongest kinde of Murtherers Traytors Perjurers c. viz. Commissary Judges in generall in their practise at large But more to the matter where you say in your 5th head in the same 3d page of your Libell The 5th thing you say deserveth a keen reproof of all honest men was Mr. Lilburnes assayling the sinceritie of his Jury and page 21. you say he promoted his 12. men c. and caused them to imploy their new given Jurisdiction onely to the advantage of the giver Truly Sir I must confess that if Mr. Lilburne assailed the sinceritie of his Jury he was to blame but I cannot find by any thing you prove that he did so for the Clamor of the People who were not his disciples as you belie them and him too were not in his power to stop more then in yours or mine had we been there for if they would not obey the Crier of the Court they would not have obeyed us more then him who desired as he needed rather to be heard then disturbed and distracted with Clamors And for his blandishments to his Jurie good Language became him to give and them to receiv but not such adulations as you give all Commissary Judges And to use all the lawfull means he could to inform them and all his Auditors that knew him not nor his innocence in that Cause and merit in others and thereby to prolong his life in the Land which the Lord his God hath given him and to keep himself a living sacrifice to and for his God untill it please his Dietie to call him to his mercy by the Ordinarie way of common death or to inspire him to fight again in his Masters Battell and Countries service whereby he may dye an extraordinary death more to his Masters glory and his own honor then by casting away his life to becom a dead sacrifice to the malice of men whether Commissary Judges such as you plead for or other flattering Sycophants such as you make your self I conceiv to be no fault in Mr. Lilburne In the next place where you say Mr. Lilburne promoted his 12 men to a new Jurisdiction I am sure that is another Lie of yours for you may read in the Lord Cooks Institutions upon the 35 Chapter of Magna Carta That County Courts Court Barons Sheriffs-Turnies and Leets were in use before King Alphreds time In all which Courts the Jurors were the Judges their then untraversable Verdicts were the Judgments in all Causes And Sheriffs and Stewards who were the Kings Commissary Judges in their Turnies and Leets as now they are the States were and still are but the suitors Clerks in Counties Hundreds and Court Barons to enter their Judgments and do execution thereupon by themselvs and their Bayliffs as publique servants or Ministers of common Justice to their Jurors and the rest of the Common Wealth See Mr. Kitchen Fo. 43. yet were they as absolute Commissary Judges by vertue of their Writs when they have them for matters above 4 s. as the Judges at Westminster ever were or can be by their Commissions And all Common Pleas between Party and Party and the King Queen and Prince were accounted but Parties as other Plaintiffs and defendants in such Pleas were holden in the County Court from Month to Month untill for the ease of the People especially husband-men to follow their business The King with their assents divided the view of Frank pledg from the Sheriff who by all the Peoples affent in Parliament 9. Ed. 2d was to be thence forth assigned by the Chancellor the Kings Commissiary Judge in his Turnies called before the Kings own Turnies to see Justice done from County to County And all the free pledges of every County together once every 7. years which is since to be done by Sheriffs twice yearly and gave them to Lords of Mannors so that their Tenants and Resiants should have the same Justice in their Leets and Court Barons as they had in the Sheriffs turnies and County Courts at their own doors without any charge or loss of time And for the same reason saith the Lord Cook in the same place Hundreds were divided from Sheriffs viz. that none should be troubled further or out of their Lords Court at all at which Courts saith Mr. Horn p. 7. Justice was so done that every one so judged his neighbor by such Judgment as none could elswhere receiv in the like cases untill such time as the Customs of the Realm were put in writing And as the County Courts Hundred Courts and Court Barons were of one Jurisdiction so were Turnies and Leets and so all of them are and ought to be still therefore you must consider that there be three sorts of Jurisdictions viz. Soveraign assigned and ordinary of these you may read in the Mirror p. 7. in these words viz. It was assented unto that these things following should belong to Kings and the right of the Crowne viz. Soveraign Jurisdiction c. which is now fixed in the Keepers of the Liberties of England by vertue whereof among other things all Writs Commissions warrants Commitments Liberates or discharges run in their names as they did in the Kings so that none are Imprisonable or dischargable but in their names consider therefore again that this assent was the Peoples whereby Kings who before and without this assent were not Kings but ordinary men that could have but ordinary Jurisdiction as others had Soveraign