is one of the principall causes of edifying contrariwise such as refuse the same apparel not only dissent disagree among themselues but fal into diuers strange opiniōs without stay slander the gospel with their contentiousnesse and teare in peeces the Church of Christ with their factions and schismes and be the cause why both the worde of God and Christian magistrates be almost generally contemned T. C. Pag. 58. Sect. 2. The thirde reason is that they which consent in wearing the surplices consent also in all other poyntes of doctrine and they that doe not weare it do not consent not so muche as amongst themselues I this consent in the points of religion be in the surplice cope c. tell vs I beseech you whether in the matter or in the forme or in what h dde and vnknowne qualitie standeth it If it be n that the ministers vse all one apparell then it is maruel that this being so strong a bonde to holde them together in godlie vnitie that it was neuer commaunded of Christe nor practised of Prophets or Apostles ether of no other re ormed Churches I had thought wholly that those things whiche the Lorde oppoynteth to mayntayne and keepe vnitie with and specially the holie Sacramentes of Baptisme and of the Lordes Supper had bene strong ynough to haue fyrste of all knitte vs vnto the Lorde and therefore also to his doctrine and then one of vs to an other and that the dissentings in suche a Ceremonie as a Surplice c. neyther should nor could in those that 〈◊〉 vnto God breake the vnitie of the Spirite which is bounde with the bonde of truthe And although there bee whyche lyke not this apparell that thinke otherwyse than eyther theyr brethren or than in deede they oughte to doe yet a man may fynde greater dissent amongest those whiche are vnyted in Surplice and Cope c. than there is amongest those whyche weare them not eyther wyth them selues or with them that weare them For howe many there are that weare Surplices whiche woulde bee 〈◊〉 to saye a Masse than to heare a Sermon lette all the worlde iudge And of those that 〈◊〉 weare this apparell and be otherwyse well mynded to the Gospell are there not whiche wyl weare the Surplice and not the cappe other that will weare bothe cap end surplice but not the tippet and yet a thirde sorte that will weare surplice cappe and tippet but not the cop It hathe bene the manner alwayes of wyse and learned men to esteeme of things by the causes an not by the euent and that especially in matters of religion for if they should be esteemed of the euent who is there which wil not condemne the Israelites battel agaynst Aye and 〈◊〉 agaynst the Bemamites which notwithstandyng the cause which was Gods wil and Gods maundement iustifyeth And therfore in a word I answer that if there be such con ent mongst those which like well of this apparel and such arres amongst those y t like it not as M. 〈◊〉 woulde make the worlde beleeue neyther is the w aryng of a surplice c. cause of that consent in thē nor the not wearing cause of that disagrement in the other But as our knowledge and loue is vnperfect here in this world so is our agreement and consent of iudgement vnperfect And yet all these hard speaches of yours or vncharitable suspicions of papisme Anabaptisme catharisme dona sme c. wherby you do as much as lyeth in you to cut vs cleane of from you shall not be able so to estrange vs or separate vs from you but that we will by gods grace holde whatsoeuer you holde well and kepe that vnitie of spirit which is the bond of truth euen with you Master Doctor whom we s ppose as appeareth by this your booke to haue set yourselfe further frō vs than numbers of those whiche althoughe they be content to receiue the apparell and beare with things yet would haue bene loth to haue set downe that against the sinceritie of the Gospell and hind rance of reformation which you haue bone Io. Whitgifte Such lawes orders as kepe godly peace and vnitie in the Church do 〈◊〉 but the lawes for apparell kepe godly peace vnitie in the Church Ergo they edifie The M nor I proue by experience of such as are subiect to these lawes by the euent which is a probable kinde of reasoning though it be not necessarie neither may the examples of a few improue that which is generally true almost in all These persons that you talke of which be thus contrarily mynded if there be any such as I thinke you do but faine yet do they kepe the peace of the Church they condemne not their brethren neither yet the apparel that they them selues peraduenture for some speciall cause weare not Some I know there are which agrée with vs in wearing the apparell and ioyne with you in contention subscribe to all our orders articles and yet in certaine places and companies mainteine your opinions but of such we make no accompt neither I thinke do you further than they may serue your turne Againe I confesse that there be some which haue not receiued the apparell and yet greatly mislike many of your opinions and kéepe with vs the vnitie of the Churche whom I for my part haue alwayes reuerenced do reuerence not onely for their singular vertue learning but for their modestie also Wherfore when I speake eyther of the one or of the other I speake not of all but of the most part Certaine it is that those things which the Lord appointeth to kepe vnitie with and especially the sacraments ought to be the especiall bond of the same that nothing should separate those that are coupled and ioyned therein but we sée it fall out o the wise such is the crooked rebellious nature of mā therfore hath God also appointed Magistrats and giuen them a thoritie to make orders lawes to mainteine the peace and vnitie of the Churche that those which of conscience and good disposition will not by suche lawes and orders may be constrained at the least to kéepe the externall peace and vnitie of the Churche Doe you take this to be a good reason The Sacrament are bond to kepe and mainteyne the v itie of the spirite therefore there 〈◊〉 no lawes or Magistrates T. imagineth suche a perfection as is not to be ounde to prouide for the externall peace and quietnesse of the Churche your imagination throughoute your whole booke is of suche a perfection in men as thoughe they néeded no lawes or Magistrates to gouerne them but that euery man mighte be as it were a lawe to himselfe whiche wherevnto it tendeth may easily be coniectured I haue not set downe any thing I trust to the hinderance of the Gospell or of reformation ▪ but I séeke to reforme such contentious spirites as be enimyes vnto both And I
our holydayes be some what short in number of theirs so far are we from hauing more than double as many as they had But your spirite is acquaynted with suche vntrue assertions But you saye we mighte haue all these commodities without all those daungers c. and why not as well this waye whiche the whole Churche hathe from tyme to tyme allowed as that way whiche certayne particular persons of their owne heades haue deuysed There is nothing that you haue to saye agaynst these dayes but onely their names and that those memories of Martyrs strayghten our consideration of them vnto those dayes c. and that men be inhibited from bodily labour to serue God al which I haue answered before and the latter in parte you confesse for you woulde haue certayne dayes appoynted for publike prayer the celebration of the sacraments hearing the worde and you seeme not to deny but that the remembrance of Saincts and Martyrs may be kepte onely you mislike that in the rest of the day men should be debarred from their bodily labours exercising their dayly vocations Wel I perceeue that something you woulde finde faulte with if you knewe what They are not so bounde from labour as it appeareth in the lawes of this Churche but that they may doe their necessarie businesse and in déede they are so farre from scrupulositie in thys poynte that all the punishmentes appoynted can not kéepe a number of them from their worldly affayres not in the very time of publike prayers and preaching of the worde and yet I sée no cause why they maye not iustly be wholly debarred excepte some vrgent occasion require sometime the contrarie from their bodily labours in suche dayes for are not the housholders bounde of duetie as well to instruct their families as the Pastor is bounde to instructe them and when is there a more conuenient tyme than in suche dayes If you haue suche a regarde to their worldly affayres is it not more commodious for them to abstayne wholly from worke vpon these Holydayes when they fall than twice or thrice euery wéeke halfe the daye Therefore this reason of yours as it is worldly so is it weake bothe in the respect of God and of the worlde also Your imagination that the kéeping of Easter dothe fetter the meditation of Easter to a A bayne reason fewe dayes c. and so likewyse the reste of the Holydayes I haue answered before it is a moste vayne reason and you mighte as well saye that there oughte to be no certayne tymes appoynted for the receyuing of the holy Communion bycause the meditation of the death and passion of Christe and the application of the same is fettered to these certayne dayes whiche shoulde continually be thoughte of and dayly as long as we lyue The same mighte you saye likewyse of the Sabboth daye But you oughte to knowe that the especiall celebrating of the memorie of Christes resurrection once in the yeare is no more a fettering of our meditation thereof to that daye onely than the receyuing of the Communion once in the moneth is a strayghting of our consideration of the deathe and passion of Christe to that time onely wherein we receyue the holy Sacrament By this reason of yours we muste eyther haue suche memories celebrated at all times or at no time But wyse men can consider howe farre you wander for want of reason Chap. 2. the. 4. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 176. Sect. 3. 4. 5. Ierome writing vpon the. 4. chap. to the Galatians sayth on this Ierome sorte If it be not lavvfull to obserue dayes moneths times and yeres vve also fall into the like fault vvhich obserue the passion of Christ the Sabboth day and the time of Lent the feasts of Easter and of Pentecoste and other times appoynted to Martyrs according to the maner and custome of euery nation to the vvhich he that vvill ansvvere simply vvill say that our obseruing of dayes is not the same vvith the Ievvish obseruing for vve doe not celebrate the feast of vnleuened bread but of the resurrection death of Christe c. And least the confused gathering togither of the people should diminishe the fayth in Christ therfore certayne dayes are appoynted that vve might all meete togither in one place not bicause those dayes be more holy but to the intent that in vvhat day soeuer vve meete vve may reioyce to see one another c. Augustine in lyke manner Lib. 18. de ciuitate Dei cap. 27. sayth That vve honor Augustine the memories of Martyrs as of holy men and suche as haue striuen for the truthe euen to death c. The same Augustine in his boke Contra Adamantum Manachaei Discip. ca. 16. expounding the woordes of the Apostle Ye obserue dayes yeares and tymes wryteth thus But one may thinke that he speaketh of the Sabboth do not vvee say that those tymes ought not to be obserued but the thinges rather that are signified by them for they did obserue them seruilely not vnderstanding vvhat they did signifie and prefigurate this is that that the Apostle reproueth in thē in all those that serue the creature rather than the Creator for vve also solemnly celebrate the Sabboth day and Easter and all other festiuall dayes of Christians but bycause vve vnderstand vvhervnto they do appertayne we obserue not the times but those thinges vvhich are signified by the tymes c. T. C Pag. 122. Sect. 1. Nowe whereas M. Doctor citeth Augustine and Ierome to proue that in the Churches in theyr times there were holy dayes kepte besides the Lordes day he might haue also cyted Ignatius and Tertullian and Cyprian which are of greater aunctencie and would haue made more for the credite of his cause seing he measureth all his truthe almoste through the whole booke by the crooked measure and yarde of tyme. For it is not to be denied but this keeping of Holydayes especially of the Easter and Pentecoste are very auncient and that these holydayes for the remembraunce of Martyrs were vsed of long tyme but these abuses were no auncienter than other were grosser also than this was as I haue before declared and were easie further to be shewed if neede required and therefore (*) An vnlearned shifte I appeale from these examples to the Scriptures and to the examples of the perfectest Churche that euer was which was that in the Apostles tymes Io. Whitgifte I knowe that I might haue alleaged many other authorities for the proofe of The Repliee appealeth itō auncient authoritie this matter but I thought these two sufficient as they be in déede in such a matter as this is and your lightly reiecting of them will winne no credite to your cause among wise and learned menne You may easilie perceyue by the woordes of bothe these Authours that these dayes in their tyme were rightly and without all superstition vsed But you do well to appeale from these examples
I would haue him vnderstand that we hold that the body must be honestly and comely buried and that it is meete that for that cause some reasonable number of those which be the friends and neighbours about should accompany the corps to the place of buriall we hold it also lawfull to lament the dead and if the dignitie of the person so require we thinke it not vnlawfull to vse some way about the buriall whereby that may appeare but yet so that there be a measure kept both in the weeping in the charges considering that where as immoderate eyther weeping or pompe was neuer no not in the time of the law allowed now in the time of the gospell all that is not lawfull whiche was permitted in the time of the law For vnto the people of God vnder the law weeping was by so much more permitted vnto them than vnto vs by how muche they had not so cleare a reuelation and playne sight of the resurrection as we haue whiche was the cause also why it was lawful for them to vse more cost in the embaulming of the dead therby to nourish and to help their hope touching the resurrection whereof we haue a greater pledge by the resurrection of our sauioure Christ than they had Io. Whitgifte Al this is néedelesse but that you are disposed to stretch out your volume Chap. 6. the. 2. Diuision Admonition The eleuenth They appoint a prescrip kind of serui e to bury the dead and that whiche is the duty of euery christian they tie alo e to the mini ter whereby rayer for the dead is maintayned and partly gathered out of some of the prayers where they pray that we with this our brother and all other departed in the true faythe of thy holy name may haue our perfect consummation and blisse both in body and soule We say nothing of the threefould peale bycause that it is rather licensed by iniunction than commaunded in the booke nor of their straunge mourning by changing their garments which if it be not hypocraticall yet it is superstitious and heatcrush bycause it is vsed only of custome nor of buriall Sermons whiche are put in pl ce of rentalls whereout spring many abuses and therefore in the best reformed Churches are remoued As for the superstitions vsed both in countrey and citie for the place of buriall which way they must lie how they mu t be fecched to Church the Minister meeting them at Church st le with surplesse with a company of greedy Clearks that a Crosse white or blacke must be set vpon the dead corps that breade must be giuen to the poore and offrings in buriall time vsed and cakes sent abroade to friends bycause these are rather vsed of custome and superstition than by the authoritie of the booke Small commaundement will serue for the accomplishing of such things But greate charge will hardly bring the least good thing to passe and therefore all is let alone and the people as blind and as ignorant as euer they were God be mercifull vnto vs. Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 198. Sect. 1. It is true that we haue a prescript kind of seruice to bury the dead and that we appointe that office to the minister and what haue you in the whole scripture against this or whoeuer hath found fault with either of these two things I meane prescript seruice to bury the dead and the minister to execute that office but you alone or when was it euer heretofore reproued by any but euen by yourselues now of late T. C. Pag. 161. Lin. 5. Nowe for the things which the Admoni ion fyndeth fault with and thereof ingeth reason M. Doc er of his bare creditē without any reason or sc ipture or 〈◊〉 thing else 〈◊〉 them vnto 〈◊〉 and sayth they be good And this you shall marke to be M. Doctors simple shift through out his ooke that when he hath no coloure of scripture nor of reason no name nor title of Doctor then r make 〈◊〉 some thing ▪ he v rieth his affirmation by all the figures he c n as in saying 〈◊〉 that it is so and then in 〈◊〉 whether it be not so and after in asking whether there 〈◊〉 any 〈◊〉 man will thi ke hat it is not so s if he woulde make vs beleeue that he setteth vs diuers 〈◊〉 of mea es bycause he bringeth the same in diuers dishes For besides these reasons he hathe no reason either to pro e that it is meete to haue prescript forme of seruice for the dead or that the 〈◊〉 should be drawen to this charge Surely if the order be so good and conuenien it hathe met with a very barren trone whiche can saye nothing for it And although there be enough sayd by the Admonition yet bycause this bold and hardy peach is nough to leade the simpler a y and to make them thinke that M. Doctor hath a good cause therefore I will also say so thing of these rites of bur all Io. Whitgifte What one reason is there vsed in the Admonition what one word of scripture what authoriti of writer to improue a prescripte kinde of seruice to bury the dead and the minister to execute that office If there be any rehearse it if there be none why do you kéepe your old cu ome of speaking vntruly for as much therefore as they only say The dead b r d by the minister and with pra er in the 〈◊〉 Church it withoute proofe withoute reason without gr unde the thing being knowen so be good and godly and pra tised in the primitiue Church for we reade in Tertullian that the dead were wont to be buried by the ministers and with prayer and furthermore séeing it is established and allowed by the Church what shoulde I laboure by reason or authoritie to confirme that whiche cannot by any reason or authoritie be ouerthrowen Tertul. de Anima Wheresore I will only answer such bare assertions as M. Zuinglius answered An order receyued in the Church needeth no proof vntill by reason it be ouerthrowen Zuinglius ad ▪ Balt a. resp vpon the like occasiō one Balthasar an Anabaptist VVhilest you require scripture and reason you obtrude vnto other that whiche you oughte to performe your selues for you denie that this ought to be so shew therefore some expresse testimonie out of the scripture to confirme your opinion To this effect spea eth Zuinglius to Balthasar who without reason or scripture alleadged to the contrary required of Zuinglius the proofe of those thinges whiche without controle ent of any but Heretikes had continued in the Churche of long time and then also allowed in the time of the Gospell Euen so the receiued order established by this Church carieth with it authoritie and credite sufficient and néedeth not to be further by reason confirmed except it be first by reason ouerthrowen which bycause it is not per ourmed by the Admonition my affirmation is sufficient
in our Church debated at any time heretofore Io Whitgifte The 17. Article Page 4. Sect. 7. They were very stubborne and wilfull which they called constancie Bu. Eo 78. 244 they were way ward and froward without all humanitie they iudged and condemned all other men T. C. Page 6. Sect. 3. If we defend no falshood or inconuenient thing we cannot be counted stubborne or wilfull wherof we offer to be tried by the indifferēt reader For waywardnesse inhumanitie we thinke it a fault as we esteeme godly societie and affabilitie to be commendable and what is our behauioure heerein we likewise referre to their iudgements with whome we are conuersant and haue to do with beeing misseiudged and vntruly condemned of you we iudge nor condemne no man their vices we condemne so far foorth as the listes of our vocation doth permit vs. Io. Whitgifte Bycause the answer to this Article consisteth of If and dependeth especially of the testimonie of such as haue bin a conuenient time conuersant with you I referre the iudgement héereof to their experience and indifferent considerations Io. Whitgifte The. 18. Article Page 4 Sect. 8. They soughte to ouerthrow common weales and states of gouernement Fol. 78. T. C. Page 6. Sect. 4. We allow of common weales * This seemeth to be contrary to that which be hath Page 35 as withoute whiche the Churche cannot long continue wee speake not against ciuill gouernment nor pet againste ecclesiasticall further than the same is an euimie to the gouernment that God hathe instituted Io. Whitgifte So do the Anabaptists in words protest as it appeareth by these words of Zuinglius Zuingli in Ecclesi in his Eccle. Though they protest and by oth denie that they take any authoritie from magistrates y et shortly after we should haue seene it come to passe that they would haue bin disobedient to all lawes of magistrates if once they had increased to that number that they might haue trusted to their owne strength But what your doctrine tendeth too though peraduenture you meane not so it will I thinke appeare when it is examined Io. Whitgifte The 19. Article Page 4. Sect 9. They gaue honoure and reuerence to none and they vsed to speake Fol. 79. to such as were in authoritie withoute any signification of honour neither woulde they call men by their titles and they aunswered chur shly T. C. Page 6. Sect. 5. If we giue honoure and reuerence to none let vs not only haue none againe but let vs be had as those that are vnworthy to liue amongst men I feare there be of those which are your fauourers Ecclesiasticall persons that if they should meete with my Lord Mayor of London woulde streine curtesie whether he or they should put off the cappe first We giue the titles of Maiestie to the Queene our soueraygne of grace to Duke and Duches of honoure to those whiche are in honoure and so to euery one according to their estate If we misse it is not bycause we are not willing but bycause we know not always what perteineth vnto them and then our fault is pardonable For answering churlishly (*) Wher nothīg is mentioned of it but it is referred by like to this place and from hence posted ouer thither agayne it is answered before in the seuenth Article Io. Whitgifte Iudéede the Anabaptists in the end reiected all authoritie of superiours and refused to giue vnto them their due titles and reuerence yet when they had for a time obtayned their owne desire they tooke that to themselues most ambitiously which they refused to giue to other You are not so farre gone as yet in all states but in the contempte of the state Ecclesiasticall you may compare with them to the vttermost what you will do in the end touching the ciuill Magistrate if you obtaine your desire I will not determine but leaue it to the 〈◊〉 of such as shall peruse these our bookes of such controuersies Io. Whitgifte The. 20. Article Page 4. Sect. 10. They attributed much vnto themselues and pleased themselues Bul. Fol. 85. very well other men they contemned and therefore their mindes were full of pride and contempt T. C. Page 6. Sect. 6. With acknowledging of our manyfold wants and ignorances we doubt not also to take vpon vs with thanksgiuing that knowledge whiche God hath giuen to euery of vs according to the measure of faith we seeke not to please ourselues but the Lorde and our briethren yea all men in that whiche is good We reuerence other mens giftes so as we thinke the contempte of them redoundeth to the giuer Therefore although the cominon infection be in vs yet we hope pride dothe not reygne in our mortall bodies Io. Whitgifte Well for the right application of this Article I will go no further than to thys your owne booke Surely if the rest of your fellowes haue the same spirit there was neuer Anabaptists in these qualities to be compared vnto you But I thinke better of some of them so would I haue done of you also if I had not séene the contrary in you euen sithence our first acquaintance but especially sithence the time wherein vpon iust occasions I began to stirre you and now most euidently in your Replie yea this very answer of yours to this article verifyeth the same to haue place in you whiche in this 20. Article is ascribed to the Anabaptists Io. Whitgifte The. 21. Article Page 4. Sect. II. They went not to preach in suche places where the Gospell was Fol. 88. not planted but only they insinuated themselues into those places wherein the Gospell had bin diligently preached and where there were godly and quiet men there they made a sturre they raysed vp factions and bredde discord T. C. Page 6 Sect. vlt. We hold that it is no ministers part to choose his owne place where he will preach but to arie How happenet it then that so many of you flocke togither at London ▪ who calleth you vntill he e chosen of others Likewise that he insinuate not himself but abide a lawful calling therfore this cannot agree to vs but to those rather which cōtent themselues with a rouing wandering ministerie and defende the ministers owne presenting and offering himselfe or euer hee bee called Io. Whitgifte And why haue you then hitherto chosen such places to remaine and preach in as London c. Where the Gospell without you and before your tyme was planted why haue you there and in suche like places disquieted the Churche and sowen the séede of contention What calling haue you had in those places which you might not haue by the selfe same meanes in other places also where the Gospell is not so well planted Truly this note is so common to all Anabaptists and so notorious that I Zuinglius know very few writing against the Anabaptists which do omitte it Zuinglius reporteth it of them in his Elenc contra
authoritie to take héede of them Let men apply them as they sée cause and haue experience there can be no hurte in that it shall make them the more circumspect and arme them agaynst the hypocriste of diuers Howe the authors of both the Admonitions do agree with the Anabaptistes in these forenamed practises I haue declared in my answere to your Reply You falsifie my wordes when you affyrme that I say they agree wyth the Anabaptists in all the forenamed practises and qualities for I haue not this vniuersall signe all if they agrée with them in many they are to be suspected I thinke the Anabaptistes themselues as they haue diuers and seuerall opinions in doctrine so had they also sundrie qualities concerning lyfe and conuersation and yet some there are which be common to them all I know that all the estates and orders of this Realitie hate Anabaptisme I require not your promyse for that matter which you offer vnto me Satis pro imperio I know their detestation of that heresie and therefore I am holde to open these practises qualities vnto them least they may by some mens hypocrisie and close dealing be deceiued My words and writings be publike my speaches plaine and therefore if I sting it is openly inoughe The priuie hissers and stingers he those that secretelye smyte theyr neighbour and hisse at them in their absence at tables and in corners and sting them behinde their backes whē they are not present to answere for themselues Such adders and Scorpions swarme among you Io. Whitgifte An exhortation c. Pag. 5. Sect. 6. Moreouer it may please you to consider the conditions practises of the Donatists who deuided them selues frō the congregation Donatistes and had their peculiar Churches or rather conuenticles in Africa They taughte also that all other Churches were spotted and impure bycause of their Ministers Finally that there ought to be no compulsion vsed in matters of Religion and fayth and that none should be punished for their conscience T. C. Page 7. Sect. 4. Nowe you carie vs from the Anabaptistes in Europe to the Donatistes in Affricke and you will paynte vs wyth their colours but you want the oyle of truth or 〈◊〉 of truth to cause your colours to cleaue and to endure The Lorde be praysed that your breath although it be 〈◊〉 anke yet it is not so strong y t it is able eyther to turne vs or chaunge vs into what formes it pleaseth you I shall desire the reader to loke Theodoret lib. 4. de fabulis Haereticorum Augustin ad quod-uult-Deum and in his firste and second bookes agaynst 〈◊〉 Letters where he shall fynde of these heretikes that by comparing them wyth these to whome M. Doctor lyk eth them the smoke of this accusation mighte the better appeare For these sclaunders are not worthe th answering To this diuision from the Churches and to your supposed conuenticles I haue answered They taught that there were no true Churches but in Affrica we teache nothing lesse than that there is no true Churche but in Englande If the Churches be considered in the partes whether Minister or people there is none pure and vnspotted and this is the faythe of the true Churche and not of the Donatistes if it be considered in the whole and generall gouernment and outwarde pollicie of it it may be pure and vnspotted for any thing I knowe if men would laboure to purge it The Donatists vaunted themselues to be exempted from sinn and what lykelyhoode is there betwene any assertion of the authors of the Admonition and this fansie of the Donatistes To the last poynt of no compulsion to be vsed in matters of Religion denying it to be true I referre the further answere to an other place Io. Whitgifte This that I haue set downe of the Donatistes is all true neyther can you disproue one word of it I write so much of their practises as he correspondent to the doings The admonitors compared with the Donatistes of the Authors of the Admonition The Donatistes deuided th mselues from the co gregation and had peculiar Churches or rather conuenticles in Affrica These also deuide themselues from the Churche And although they tye not the Churche of Christ to any one corner yet haue they their seuerall Churches and secrete meetings The 〈◊〉 made thys their excuse why they departed from other Churches bycause they were not pure and vnspotted and their ministers of euill life These men for the lyke causes separat themselues from the Churche also The Donatistes woulde haue no 〈◊〉 vsed in 〈◊〉 of Religion and fayth These men in effecte be lykewise mynded for they woulde haue no 〈◊〉 punishement vsed which may appeare y that which is written in the second 〈◊〉 fol. 57. where they saye that it 〈◊〉 not to make any lawes 〈◊〉 m ere 〈◊〉 bycause the gouernment of the Second Admoni fol. 57. Churche is 〈◊〉 per 〈◊〉 the worde and fol. 56. and in 〈◊〉 plates else they speake to the lyke purpose whereof occasion will be g uen hereafter better to consider Augustine in his 〈◊〉 de haeresibus ad quod-vult 〈◊〉 heweth that some of the Donatistes Aug. de baeresib ad quod-vult were also Arians but not all 〈◊〉 some of them were Circumcellions of which secte 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the place by you cyted But what is all 〈◊〉 to ▪ Lib. 4 de fab Haeret. the 〈◊〉 speake ot of their opinions nor of all theyr conditions but of such onely wherein these that separate them selues in oure dayes séeme to agrée wyth them Similia as you knowe agrée not in all poyntes it is sufficient if they doe in those things in quibus 〈◊〉 Neyther doe I anye otherwyse reporte of them than M. Caluine him selfe doth in his booke against the Anabaptistes and Augustine with others that write of them Surely neyther in the whole nor in parte can the Churche be vnspotted in this world no not in the outwarde pollicie and gouernment of it neyther doe I thinke that you are able to shewe any examples of suche Puritie we haue to the contrarie euen in the Apostolicall Churches in the Apostles tyme as the Churche of Corinth and of the Galatians Maister Caluine in hys booke aduersus Anabaptistas is directly against you and in déede I thinke that you are not able to shewe one learned writer of your opinion in this poynt Io. Whitgifte An exhortation c. Pag. 5. Sect. 7. To conclude these men flatly ioyne with the Papistes and by the selfe same assertions bende their force against this Churche of Englande T C. Pag. 7. Sect. vlt. Salomon sayth that the beginnyng of the ordes of an vnwise man is folyshnesse b t the Ecclef 10. ver 13. latter ende of them is mere madnesse euen so it 〈◊〉 oute by you for whilest you suffer your selfe to be caryed headlong of your affections you hurle you knowe not what nor at whome whatsoeuer commeth firste to
conuiuticles are fayne to glase vp the windowes that you open to secret and priuate conuenticles Io. Whitgifte But this you cannot omitte that I make it an indifferent thing to preach the worde of God in Churches or in houses c. it is an argument that you lacke good matter when you make such excursions from the purpose My words be that the scriptures speake not one worde of meeting in Churches fieldes or houses too heare the word of God of baptising in fonts in basons or riuets openly or priuately at home or in the Church c. If I haue said vntruly conuince me with scripture and shew me those places where these things be determined Where do I say that these things be now indifferent to haue the word preached is not indifferent but necessarie to haue it preached in this place or in that place in Churches in fieldes or in houses is indifferent vntill suche time as the Churche Things indifferent lose the nature of iudifferencie when they are commaunded hath otherwise determined So is it likewise in baptisme the sacrament is necessary the circumstances of time and place c. be committed to the disposition of the Churche and remayne so long indifferent vntill the Churche hathe taken order in them which being done then they be no more indifferente Do you not know that wherevnto so many Churches reformed and learned men haue of late subscribed it is the. 6. assertion Res alioqui per se mediae mutant quodammodò natur m. c. Things otherwise Theses eccles Belgio art 6. indifferente of themselues after a sorte change their nature when by some lawfull commaundemente they are either commaunded or forbidden bycause neyther then can be omitted contrary to the commaundement if they are once commaunded neyther done contrary to prohibition if they be prohibited as it appeareth in the ceremoniall law The place is not of the substance either of the word or of the sacraments but yet to contemne or willingly to breake the order appointed by the Church in such matters is sinne You say that I affirme it to be at the order of the Churche to make baptisme priuate or publike Surely you do me greate iniurie and win your selfe small credite by thys T. C. peruerteth y e words of the Answer kind of dealing Is it all one to say that the scripture hath not determined whether baptisme should be ministred opēly or priuately at home or in the Church and to say that the Church may make baptisme priuate or publike For hereby you would giue your readers to vnderstand that I thinke it in the power of the Church to appoint that there should be no publike baptisme wherin as I said you do me greate iniurie My words therefore and meaning tend to this end that the scripture hathe not any where expressed when baptisme should be celebrated publikely when priuately but hathe left that to the determination of the Church to do therin according to the circumstances of time person c. Neither do I call baptisme priuate in any other Baptisme is called pr ce in respec of the place respect than of the place and therefore my meaning is that the scripture hathe not determined where or when we should baptise at home in priuate families or in publike and open places as fields Churches c. For we haue examples in scripture both of baptising in houses and of baptising in fields Act. 8. 9. 10. 26. Therefore touching the place the scripture hath not determined any thing and in the respect of the place I call it publike or priuate although I sée nothing in the scripture to the cōtrary but vpon necessarie occasion and other circumstances it may be priuate in the respect of persons that be presente at the celebrating of baptisme for the number of standers by or of such as are to be baptised is not of the substance of the sacramente therefore in that also the Church may take order and hath therein to deale And as I thinke that in such respects baptisme may be priuately administred so The worde may be preached priuately both in r pect of the place and persons thinke I also that in the like respects the word may be priuately preached Neyther did the Apostles only preache in the Sinagogues and in open places but in priuate families and houses also as it is manifest Act. 5. Where it is said that the Apostles did not cease daily to teach and to preach Iesus Christ in the temple and house by house Act. Act. 5. 10. Peter preached in Cornelius his house Acts. 16. Paule preached in prison And Act. 10. not only was the word preached priuately in respect of the place ▪ but sometimes also Act. 6. in the respect of the persons as Christe preached to the woman of Samaria alone Io 4. Io. 4. And Philip in the chariot to the Eunuch Act. 8. Act. 8. Your scriptures brought in to proue that there may be no priuate preaching are very farre fetched and some of them very straungely applied That which Salomon saith Prouerb 8. proueth that God calleth all men by his word and by his works to follow that which is good and flye from that which is euill And I thinke that the meaning of Salomon in that place is that God dothe offer his worde to all persons in all places so that there can be no ignorance pretended But I pray you how doth this argument follow the worde of God is offered to all and openly proclaymed Ergo it may not be also priuately taught all your proofes and examples that follow be of like effect they proue that the word of God ought publikely to be preached but they do not take away priuate exhortations and preachings It is true that both Christe and his Apostles taught in Smagogues so it is true also that they taught in priuate families as I haue declared but yet I say the scripture hathe not appointed any certaine place of preaching For Esdras red the law in the streates Nehem. 8. wisedome crieth in the topps Nehem. 8. of the high places by the way side in the pathes in the gates before the Citie Pro. 8. Christ Pro. 8. preached in the Mountaine Math. 5. in the Sinagogue Math. 4. the Apostles in the Math. 5. temple and in priuate families do not you therfore sée that there is no determinatiōof Math. 4. any place wherefore the aptnesse of the place and the conueniencie of it likewise Act. 5. when the word is to be preached publikely when priuately is left to the iudgement and ordering of the Church And therefore it is true that I haue set downe that the scripture hath not dermined any thing of meeting in Churches fieldes or houses to heare the worde of God or of preaching in Pulpits chaires or otherwise There are and may be occasions euen in the time of prosperitie when bothe the word may be preached and the
is nothyng lesse bycause he is dead Concerning all the rest of your collections I haue not lightly knowne a man whiche ta eth so much paine w t so small gain which soweth his seed in the sea wherof ther wil neuer rise encrease For I know none that euer deined those things vnlesse peraduenture you would make the reader beleeue y e a those be contētious which moue any controuersie of things which they iudge to be amisse then it is answered before now I answere further that they that moue to reformation of things are no more to be blamed as authors of contētion than the Physitiō which giueth a purgatiō is to be blamed for the rumbling stirre in y e beliy other disquietnesse of y e body which should not haue be 〈◊〉 y e 〈◊〉 humors naughty disposition of it had not caused or procured this purgation Wheras you conclude that these contētions would be spon ended if M Caluins words were no ed here we wil ioyn with you wil not refuse y e (d) In any place that maketh with you but not otherwise iudgemēt of M. Caluin in any matter that we haue in controuers e with you which I speake not therfore bicause I woulde call the decision of controuersies to men and theyr words whych pertayn only to God and to his word but bicause I know his iudgement in these thyngs to be cleane against you and especially for that you would beate men in hand that M. Caluin is on your syde and agaynst vs. Io. Whitgifte If you your selfe will of necessitie inforce these qualities and conditions of Anabaptistes whiche I in the beginning rehersed vpon the authors of the admonition who can let you The moste that I haue sayde is that I suspecte them bycause they so agree with them in certaine qualities and practices But if they were bent that waye yet doth it not folow that they woulde by and by séeme to contemne M. Caluines or any other famous and learned mannes iudgemente For you knowe that the chiefe captaines of the Anabaptistes did not forthwith vtter eyther al their contempt of learned men or all their pestiferous opinions at the fyrst but vsed therin some policie suche as might most preuayle to winne credite vnto theyr faction You remember that Zuinglius in his booke called Ecclesiast sayth of the Anabaptists Zuinglius aducrs Anab. that though they protested and by othe denyed that they ment to take any authoritie from the magistrate yet shortly after it would appeare that they would haue bin disobedient to all lawes of Magistrates c. as I haue before rehersed the practise wherof is to be séene in Sleidan and other stories And although in the beginning it was pretended that the contention was but in matters of no great importance as cap surplesse tippet c. yet in the additions to the first admonition fol. 9. it is protested that the strife is for greater matters as for a true ministerie and gouernmente of the Churche and nowe you say that certain matters Fol. 5. sect vlt. Fo. 14. lin 5. Fol. 6. sect 4. whiche be in controuersie are matters of lyfe and death of saluation and damnation fol. 5. 14. Besides all thys the additions that you make to the protestation of your obediēcs to the ciuile Magistrate fol. 6. c. is verie suspicious so is your doctrine touching the authoritie of the ciuill magistrate also as I haue in an other place declared Wherfore how farre both they and you will as yet procéede is not certainly knowne In the meane tyme if by allowing suche as M. Caluine is some credite were not maintained wise and learned men would the sooner espie their dooings When I say that I trust M. Caluines iudgemente will weigh some thing with them I speake it but in comparison to the authoritie of suche as I haue before alleaged For I know they make small acc mpt of any author that writeth against them but least of all of the olde auncient fathers whom some of them are not ashamed to call pillorie Doctours They may therfore beare a countenance to suche as hate and confute Anabaptisme Papisme c. and yet both ioyne with the Papists and the Anabaptists c. in disturbing the Churche As the woordes of M. Caluine be directely to my purpose and my collections truly gathered out of them so is your answere thervnto verie weake and in déed nothing The woordes of M. Caluine wher vpon my seconde collection is gathered be these But bicause in externall discipline and ceremonies he woulde not particularly prescribe what we ought to followe bycause he foresaw that this depended vpon the state and condition of the tyme neyther did iudge one forme or maner to be agreeable to all ages Here we must haue respect c. Conferre these woordes with my collection and you shall sée them agrée in all poyntes And surely M. Caluine sayeth that fully and plainely in this place whiche I haue taken in hande to proue M. Caluine neyther addeth all nor some and therfore neyther haue I added them least I mighte séeme to be a corrupter of his woordes Your obiection of the Supper of the Lorde and of Baptisme is altogether friuolous for they be substantiall Ceremonies and not ceremonies onely but Sacramentes also and therfore must haue of necessitie an expresse commaundement in the worde of God Touching excōmunication I shal speake hereafter it is the matter that the Anabaptists so greatly vrged and for the not vsing of the whiche they separated themselues from the Churches where the Gospell was preached as appeareth in the bookes bothe of Caluine Bullinger and others against them I knowe that touchyng Excommunication whether the vse of it bée at all ymes so necessarye or no that it maye not bée altered learned men doe varie in iudgementes whose opinions in that matter I will deferre vntill I come where I haue farther occasion to speake of it If M. Caluine were alyue and vnderstode the state of our Churche and controuersie truly I verily beléeue that he would vtterly condemne your doings and I am the rather induced to thinke so bicause I vnderstande him to haue allowed many things in the Englishe Church being at Geneua which you altogither misselyke as Funeral sermons c. And therfore he would not thinke his wordes racked one whit to establishe any thing that he would haue had ouerthrowne The rest of my collections are most agréeable to M Caluines woords moste necessary for this present time and moste apte for my purpose and youre passing them ouer so slightly doth argue your lacke of abilitie to answere them In deede they flatly determine this controuersie and in effect ouerthrowe your whole booke Those that make contention in the Churche for suche matters as you doe and in suche sorte and maner can not auoyde the iuste accusations of being contentious persons and if the Physition giueth a purgation where there
are not bound to any suche prescript forme of outward ceremonies and circumstances but haue frée libertie not only to appoynte but also to alter and chaunge the same as shall be thoughte most conuenient so that nothing be done against the word of God and that the generall 1. Cor. 14. rule be obserued 1. Cor. 14. that all things be done decently and in order All thys therefore that you speake of houre place and of the forme of buriall and of mariage c. infirmeth nothing that I haue sayd for these be circumstances not vsed in the seruice of God but in other actions and I speake of suche ceremonies and circumstances as are vsed in the Church about the seruice and worshipping of God whiche were to the Iewes particularly prescribed as appeareth in the places before alleadged but be not so to vs. Chapter 6. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Page 22. Sect. 1. 2. I will not be long whereas you say that they had nothing but was determined by the law and we haue many things vndetermined and left to the order of the Church I will offer for one that you shall bring that we haue left to the order of the Churche to shewe you that they had twentie A large offer but not so soone per formed which were vndecided of by the expresse word of God For as their ceremonies and Sacraments are multiplied aboue ours so grew the number of those cases which were not determined by any expresse word and therefore I will conclude (a) Marke these words that for somuch as we haue the same 〈◊〉 to direct vs in the seruice of God which they had besides that a noble addition of the new testament to make things more manif st and to bring greater light vnto the old testament we haue also precise direction of our religion as they had and therefore those places of Deut. stande in as greate force now touching the gouernmente of the Church as they did then And as for the iudiciall law for as muche as there are some of them made in regard of the region where they were giuen and of the people to whome they were giuen the Prince and Magistrate keeping the substance and equitie of them as it were the marrow may chaunge the circumstances of them as the times and places and manners of the people shall require But to say that any magistrate can saue the life of blasphemers conteniptuous and stubborne Idol ters murderers adulterers incestuous persons and such like which God by his iudiciall law hath commaunded to be put to death I do vtterly deni and am ready to proue if that perteyned to this question And therefore although the iudiciall lawes are permitted to the discretion of the Prince and Magistrate yet not so generally as you seeme to affirme and as I haue often times said that not only it must not be done against the word but according to the word and by it Io. Whitgifte Surely if you can shew me twenty things to be done of them in the seruice of God or discipline of the Church left to the order of the Church and vndetermined in the law for one that I can shew left to the order of our Church you can do more than any man that I know hath either spoken or written Musculus Lo. co after that he hath made a particular Musc. loc com tit de legib recitall of the ceremoniall lawes saithe that God did therefore appoint vnto thē such a number of Ceremonies bicause they should not inuēt any other seing they had Ceremonies inow wherby they might be exercised and as it were by a certain kind of schooling might be instructed in the spirituall sense To our discretion is left as I haue said the most of the circumstances perteyning to both the sacraments most of all externall rites ceremonies and other things that perteyne to comelinesse and order yea and the disposition of many things also which apperteine to the externall discipline and gouernmente of the Church which are to be varied according to time persons and place as shall hereafter be proued If you be able to shewe that the same libertie was lefte vnto them in so many thinges you shall do more than I can conceyue But admttte all this to be true that you say there can be nothing spoken more directly The assertion of T. C. directly eth the Answere for the iustifying of my cause For if the Israelites notwithstanding these places of Deutero had libertie to order things in the Church not comaunded or prescribed vnto them in the word of God then do the Authours of the Admonition vnaptly vse these places of Deuteronomie to proue that those things only are to be vsed and placed in the Church which God himselfe in his word hath commaunded For if the Iewes notwithstanding these precepts did lawfully vse those things that were not in the word commaunded withoute adding to the word or taking from it surely we may do so in like manner And thus haue you taken muche paynes in iustifying that cause which y u would so gladly ouerthrow Wher you say that we haue the same lawes to direct vs in the seruice of God that they had The assertion of T. C. tendeth to Iudaisme if you meane the same morall lawes you say truly but nothing to the purpose if you meane the same ceremoniall lawes which properly are said to be lawes directing them in the seruice of God then do you Iudaizare play the Iew. And certainely I maruell what you meane by this saying séeing that you knowe our externall manner and kind of worshipping of God to be farre distante from theirs and our sacramentes though spiritually the same yet both in number forme matter obseruation and kind of signification much differing from them and especially seing that their ceremoniall law is vtterly abolished Neyther do I well vnderstand what your meaning is when you adde Besides that a noble addition of the newe testamente to make things more manifest and to bring a greater light vnto the old testament For if you meane that the newe testamente is added to the ceremoniall lawe that cannot be so for it is the ende of the Ceremoniall lawe and dothe vtterly abrogate it Nam inis legis Christus c. Christe is the ende of the lawe For as well the figures as the promises conteyned in Rom. 10. the lawe and the Prophetes are fulfilled in the newe Testament by the comming Luke 24. of Christe as he him selfe saythe Luke 24. If you meane that it is added to the morall lawe that is also vntrue for it onely explaneth it it addeth nothing vnto it In déede it bringeth a great lighte to the olde Testament bicause all thinges are there fulfilled whiche were prophe ied of and prefigured in the olde Testament M. Caluin Caluin inst Institu Cap. 3. Sect. 9. saythe that to thinke Christ to haue added any thing to the law is
moste pernicious I muste craue pardon of the Reader for making suche excursions out of the way Whether the Magistrate be bounde to obserue the Iudiciall law of Moses for I am compelled to followe you whiche interlace your booke with suche by ▪ matters and those so suspicious and daungerous that I can not safely passe them ouer with silence And euen nowe agayne do you enter into a straunge and dangerous opinion in my iudgement for you would haue the ciuill Magistrate bounde to obserue all the Iudiciall lawes of Moses excepte suche as were made in respect of the re gion where they were giuen and of the people to whome they were giuen Of the whiche lawes the Magistrate you say may onely chaunge the circumstances as the times and places and manners of the people shall require But you vtterly deni and are ready to proue if that perteyned to th s question that any Magistrate can saue the lyfe of blasphemers contemptuous and stubbo ne Idolaters murderers adulterous persons and suche like whiche God by his Iudiciall lawe hathe commaunded to be put to death Howesoeuer you passe this matter ouer as impertinent to this question yet for as The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the asser tion of T. C. muche as you haue héere set it downe and I am fully persuaded that it is vntrue I minde to touche it something and to vtter the reasons of my persuasions I leaue it to the consideration of those that knowe the lawes and state of the Realne and especially suche as haue the chiefe gouernment and care of the same what lieth hidde vnder this your opinion First all the lawes of this land that be contrarie to these Iudiciall lawes of Moses must be abrogated The Prince must be abridged of that prerogatiue which she hath in pardoning suche as by the lawe be condemned to dye the punishments of death for fellonie must be mitigated according to Moses law whiche doth by other meanes punish the same Exod. 22. To be short al things must be transformed Exod. 22. Lawyers must cast away their huge volumes and multitude of cases and content them selues with the bookes of Moses we of the Cleargie would be the best Iudges and they must require the lawe at our handes Deutero 17. verse 8. And so Deut. 17. while we make them beléeue that we séeke for equalitie among our selues we séeke in déede regall dominion ouer them Looke Deuter. 17. verse 12. But to omit all these considerations whiche I leaue to those to whom they do especially perteyne I wyll shew as briefly as I can how farre this opinion is from true diuinitie First besides all those places of Scripture whiche make generally for the abrogation The Iudiciall lawe abrogat of the whole lawe we haue especiall places for the Iudiciall lawe and namely those where Christ maketh lawes of deuorcement for adultrie Math. 5. and. 19. which Mat. 5. 19. were altogither néedlesse if she that is takē in adultrie should of necessitie be stoned to death according to y e law of Moses Aug. ad Pollentiū de adult coniug li. 2. cap. 6. 7. 8. 14. Augustine proueth by that whiche is written of Christ. Iohn 8. touching the woman deprehended Iohn 8. in adultrie and brought vnto him by the Scribes Pharisies that the wife taken in adultrie ought not to be punished with death but suffred to liue that she mighte be reconciled to hir husbande or at the least repent Cyril also vpon the. 11. of Leuit. saith that though the punishment of death was according to the law of Moses appoynted for adultrie Cyrill and certayne other crimes yet among Christians there is no suche commaundement in force Musculus in his common places tit de legib speaking of the law sayth thus Muscul. They aske the question whether the whole lawe be abrogated we answere if whole Moses gaue place to Christ then hathe his whole lawe giuen place to the lawe of Christe And a little after The commaundementes of the lawe are Morall Iudiciall Ceremoniall That the Ceremoniall commaundementes haue ceassed it is euident forsomuche as the Priesthoode of the lawe to the which the ceremonies were annexed is abrogated by the Priesthoode of Christ according to the order of Melchizedech and that the Iudicials also are ceassed it dothe herein appeare for that the whole order of gouernment of Israell which was requisite vnto the inhabiting of the lande of promise hath from that time ceassed wh as they beeing expelled began to dwell amongst the Gentiles without a king without gouernours without a Priest and without a lawe Hemingius in his Encber is of the same iudgement his words be these There is also Hemingius the Iudiciall law which expired with the common wealth of Moses so that it dothe not binde any man of necessitie but so farre onely as some portion of it dothe perteyne to the law of nature as the law agaynst incestuous mariages Leuit. 18. and so much of it lykewise as the ciuill Magistrate shall admit for pollicie I omit that place of M. Caluin which is written in his Harmonie vpō the. 5. bookes Caluin of Moses where he speaking of these lawes Exod. 23. Deut. 12. Num. 3 which were giuen for the breaking of Images destroying of places where idolatrie was cōmitted c. saith that they were but temporall exercises to kéepe the people in obedience c. And in the same booke speaking of the. 7 ▪ of Deut. The grauē Images of their Gods shall Deut. 7. ye burne with fire and couet not the siluer and golde that is on them c. saith Althoughe this was a politike lawe and giuen onely to the auncient people for a time yet hereby we may gather how detestable Idolatrie is c. But of all other places that is moste euident which he hathe in his Institu Cap. 20. Sect. 13. 14. 15. and therfore I wil rehearse it more at large Sunt qui rectè compositam rempub negent c. There are certaine which denie that Caluinus common welth to be well ordered which omitting the politike lawes of Moses is ruled by the common lawes of the Gentiles The which opinion how dangerous and seditious it is ☞ let other men cōsider it is inough for me to haue declared that it is both false foolish But that vsuall diuision is to be obserued which deuideth the whole law of God deliuered by Moses into maners ceremonies iudgements and euery part therof is diligently to be considered that we may vnderstande what perteyneth vnto vs thereof and what dothe not In the meane time let no man be troubled with this that both the Iudicials ceremonies did apperteyne vnto maners for the ancient fathers the inuentors of this diuisiō although they were not ignorant that these two latter parts were occupied about maners yet bycause they might be altered and abrogated without any preiudice vnto maners they called
them not morall They called that first part properly by that name moral without the which the true holynesse of maners and the immutable rule of liuing could not well consist And agayne The law of God forbiddeth to steale what punishment was appoynted for thefte in the pollicie of the Iewes appeareth ▪ in Exod. The moste auncient lawes of other nations Exod. 22. punished theft with double they which followed afterwarde made a difference betwixte open theft and that which was secret others condemned the theeues with exile banishment others adiudged them to be whipped and last of all others to be put to death False witnesse amongst the Iewes was punished with equal payne in respect of the hurt in other places onely with infamie in other places with hanging c. All lawes ioyntly do reuenge murder with bloud but yet with diuers kindes of death In some places there are greeuouser paynes appoynted for adulterers in other places those which are more easie yet we see how they al by this diuersitie of punishment tende to one ende for they al with one consent do giue sentence of punishment agaynst those offences which are condemned by the eternall law of God to wit murder theft ad ltrie false witnesse but they agree not all in the maner of the punishment Neyther truly is it necessarie or expedient that they shoulde agree herein ☞ There is a countrey which should out of hande be destroyed with theeues and slaughter if it did not with horrible example deale very sharpely with murderers There is a so some time which requireth the augmentation of the sharpnesse of punishment and some people very prone vnto some certayne sinne except they be with great rigour kepte in awe He is then very euill affected and enuieth the publike commoditie that is offended with thys diuersitie which is most meete to reteyne the obseruatiō of the law of God For that which some men obiect that by this meanes iniurie is done to the lawe of God whiles it beeing abrogated other lawes are preferred before it is most vaine For other lawes are not preferred before it but allowed not by any simple comparison in respect of Gods law but according to the condition of time place and nation neither can that be sayde to be abrogated ☞ which was neuer prescribed vnto vs for God deliuered it by the handes of Moses not for all natiōs but particularly for the Iewes c. M. Beza likewise in his booke de haer Magist. puniend of this matter writeth thus VVe acknowledge those politike lawes to be prescribed Beza onely to the countrey of the Iewes neither are we so vnskilfull that we woulde haue Moses common wealth or gouernment called backe agayne as though it were not lawfull for euery Magistrate within his owne dominion to make lawes in ciuill matters And a little after The Iudiciall lawes were framed only for one nation Therefore seeing they were neuer written for vs they can not be sayd to be abrogated And agayne Onely the Israelites were bound to the Iudiciall lawes that is those that dwell in Iurie bicause they were made fit for that common wealth onely And after that he hath shewed by an example of the lawe for theft that that maner kinde of punishment did onely binde the Israelites that other Magistrates in their countreys for good causes maye appoynt a sharper kinde of punishment for the same he cōcludeth thus Lex enim illa Mosis Idem quatenùs poenae modū praescribit alijs gentibus neque vnquā fuit posita neque nūc est propriè abrogata That lawe of Moses in so muche as it prescribeth the maner of punishment was neyther ☜ at any time giuen to other nations neither is it now properly abrogated So that now they that be disposed may perceyue howe this doctrine of yours not onely tendeth to the ouerthrowing of states of cōmon wealthes but is contrarie also to the truth and opinion of learned men and those especially of whome you your selfe make greatest accompt Therefore it is true that I haue sayde in my answere to the Admonition that is The Iudicial law to be left to the discretion of the Magistrate to adde to it or to take from it or to alter and chaunge it as shall be thought most fit for the time manner of the countrey and condition of the people as M. Caluin also very aptly noteth in the very ende of that 15. section before rehearsed Chap. 6. the 5. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 31. Lin. 21 ▪ So hath he lefte authoritie vnto his Churche to make lawes and appoynt orders ceremonies as shall from time to time be thought most expedient and profitable for the same so that nothing be done contrarie to his worde or repugnant to the same And this authoritie hath the Churche vsed euen from the Apostles time as it is manifest both by the scriptures Act. 6. Act. 15. 1. Cor. 11. other ecclesiasticall stories and auncient fathers as is before by me proued Iohn Whitgifte To this nothing is answered Chap. 6. the. 6. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 31. Sect. 1. But to come to the wordes of Deuteronomie them selues what is it to adde to the worde of God or to take from it Truely to thinke otherwise or teache otherwise of God than he hathe in his worde reuealed Those take from the worde that beleeue lesse than in the worde is expressed those adde to the worde fyrste whiche teache or decree any thing eyther in matters of faythe or ceremonies contrarie to the worde Secondly those that make any thing necessarie vnto saluation not conteyned in the worde Thirdly such as make any religion or opiniō of merite in any thing that they themselues haue inuented besides the worde of God Last of all they adde to the word which forbid that for a thing of it selfe vnlawfull which Gods worde doth not forbid and make that sinne which Gods word doth not make sinne But such as truly sincerely imbrace the worde of God and admit nothing contrarie vnto it if in gouernment ceremonies without any wicked superstitious opinion they appoynt or retayne such as they know not to be agaynst the worde of God and profitable for the present state of the Church can not truly be sayd to adde any thing to the worde of God or take any thing from it though the same be not expressed in the worde T. C. Pag. 22. Sect. 3. After you define what it is to take from and put to the word of God wherin not to speake of your wonderfull * There is no great dexteritie required to performe this dexteritie in defining which can define two thinges and those contrarie putting to and taking fro with one difference which Zeno him self could neuer do you leaue out that which Moses especially ment to comprehende which is not to do more nor to do lesse than he hathe commanded And as for your diuision
lawes for himselfe but for vs mighte call S. Peter also to that function which had thrice denyed him But as it is not lawfull for vs to follow the example of Christ in calling of Paule by admitting those which are new conuerted hauing a contrary precepte giuen that no * new plant or greene 1. Tim. 3. Christian should be taken to y e Ministerie So is it not lawfull also to follow that example of our Sauiour Christ the contrarie beyng commaunded as I haue before alleaged For albeit the examples of our Sauiour Christ be to be followed of vs yet if there be commaundtmentes generall to the contrarie then we must know that it is our partes to walke in the broade and beaten way as it were the common caussie of the commaundement rather than an outpath of the example Io. Whitgifte Peter hauing before bragged of his constancie lately admonished by his Maister Christ almost euē in y e presence of his master wittingly willingly denyed not once but thrice yea bitterly forswore him which fault no doubt was as gréeuous as any kind of Idolatrie and therfore if you stand with me in that matter neuer so long you can not greatly trouble me for the circumstances beyng considered there is nothing to exeuse Peters denyall As Christ in the heate of Paules persecution dyd choose him to be an Apostle and called Peter also to that function after he had thrice denyed him euen so doth he still continue his mercie neither is it one whit streightened and these examples hath he set before vs that we should at no time dispaire of his mercy and goodnesse so saith S. Paule 1. Tim. 1. Verùm ideò misericordiam consecutus sum c. Notwithstanding for this cause was I 1. Tim. 1. receiued to mercie that Iesus Christ should first shewe on me al long suffering vnto the example of them which shall in time to come beleeue in him vnto eternall lyfe Although these examples of our sauiour Christ are not at all times in al poyntes to be followed yet doe they sufficiently declare that no man for any crime is to be secluded from any lawfull vocation if he repent him and become a new man And there be no generall commaundements contrarie herevnto but this doctrine is consonant to the whole course of the Gospell Chap. 2. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 27. Sect. 2. I know Ambrose was taken newly from Paganisine to be Bishop of Millaine for the greate T. C. picketh a quarrell to de praue Ambrose out of place and vniustly estimation and credite he had amongst the people but besides that I haue shewed that such things are vnlawfull being forbidden the errors corrupt expounding of scriptures which are found in his works declare that it had bene more safe for the Church if by studie of the scriptures he had firste bene a scholer of diuinitie or euer he had bene made Doctor Io. Whitgifte You néeded not to haue wyped away the example of Ambrose with so much disgracing of him being so worthy a man and so learned a father for thoughe he were not christened when he was chosen Bishop yet had he long before that time professed the name of Christ and was soundly grounded in Religion for in those dayes many did long differre the time of Baptisme after the time of their conuersion And S. Paule 1. Tim. 3. by his greene Christian as you terme him doth vnderstande such as be newly conuerted Ambrose was a man of notable learning and singularly commended in all histories that make any mention of him his errors be not so many nor his expositions so simple that you should so contemptuously write of him Chap. 2. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Page 27. Sect. 2. here maye be more examples shewed out of that which you call the Primitiue Church to the 〈◊〉 of that which you say For whē they vsed oftentimes against those that had so faine such seueritie in deede extreme and excessiue that they were neuer after vntill their deathes admitted to the Lords table I leaue to you to thinke whether they woulde then suffer any suche to execute the function of the ministerie Besides that S. Cyprian hathe also a speciall treatise of this that those that haue sacrificed to Idols should not be permitted any more to minister in the Church in the first booke of his Epist. Epistle vij Io. Whitgifte It appeareth in that 7. Epistle of Cyprian that he ment of such as after they had sacrificed to Idols toke their ministerie againe vpon them without any signification or shewe of repentance but rather iustifying or at the least excusing their former facte And that this was Cypriās meaning it may be gathered by these words in the same Cypri lib. Epist. 7. Epistle which he speaketh to the people to whom he writ touching Fortunatianus who hauing sacrificed to Idols would haue againe resumed his ministerie Ergo contumaces deum non timentes ab ecclesia in totum recedentes nemo comitetur Quòd si quis impatiens fuerit ad deprecandum dominum qui offensus est nobis obtemperare noluerit sed desperatos perditos secutus fuerit sibi imputabit cum iudicij dies venerit VVherfore let no man kepe companie with those which are stubborne not fearing God wholy depart from the Church But if any will not aske forgiuenesse at the Lord which is offended and will not obey vs but will needes followe them which are disperate and paste hope he shall laye the blame on none but on him selfe at the day of iudgement Wherby it is plaine that Cypriā ment such as had wholy departed from the Church and were desperate in wickednesse It is manifest that in Cyprians time those that did offend in such crimes afterwardes repented were appointed a time of publique repentance according to the qualitie of the fault committed and vntill that time was expired they were not admitted vnto the Lordes table except onely at the poynt of death But I graunt that there was extreme seueritie in Cyprians time shewed to suche as had fallen in the time of pesecution and that it euidently appeareth in other of his Epistles that such were no more admitted to the ministerie But this law was made by Cyprian and others as it is euident Lib. 2. Epist. 1. in that Councell of Carthage where it was also concluded that such as were baptized of heretikes should be rebaptized and therfore of the lesse force séeing that that whole Councell is for inst causes reiected Chap. 2. the sixte Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 39. Sect. 2. 3. I pray you what say you to M. Luther Bucer Cranmer Latimer Ridley c. were not al these sometimes Massemongers and yet singular and notable instrumentes of promoting the Gospell and preaching the same wherof many haue giuen testimonie by sheding their bloud And by whose Ministerie especially hathe the Gospell bene published and is as yet in this
Minister to be chosen without the consent of the Churche than in a Church béeing in prosperitie And surely it is euen lyke to your reasons in other matters for first that whiche you saye of the Churches rounde aboute for admonishing correcting or excommunicating that Churche that shall choose an vnméete minister is not to bée founde in all the Scripture either in commaundement or example and it is a méere deuise of your owne head Secondly it is moste vnlyke that the Church in the time of persecution should choose an vnméete or a wicked minister bycause those that be persecuted themselues be godly and well disposed and carefull to haue suche a one as they may safely committe themselues vnto For thoughe in the tyme of persecution there maye bée some hypocrites that will for a tyme ioyne themselues with the Godlie yet the moste parte doe of a conscience that whyche they doe else woulde they not endure persecution wherefore if euer the election of theyr minister may safely be committed vnto them it may then so be especially Lastely in the tyme of persecution they haue no Magistrate they be all equall neyther is one bounde to obey another by any ciuill lawe none hathe chiefe and speciall care ouer the rest as Magistrate to compell wherfore it can not be otherwyse then but that suche offices and functions should be chosen by a common consente neyther can there be therein in that tyme the halfe parte of inconuentences that are in the same in tyme of prosperitie as any man of any consideration may euidently perceyue Chap. 6. the seuenth Diuision T. C. Pag. 36. Sect. 2. 3. Nowe I will shewe you * Where find you that I thinke so whiche thinke that the consent of the Churche in their minister can not stande with the time of a christian magistrate that it hath not onely stoode but hath bene confirmed in their tymes and by them In codice Iustiniani it is thus written following the doctrine of the holie Apostles (i) The words of this constitution are craftily suppressed c. we ordeyne that as often as it shall fall out that the ministers place shall be boyd in any citie that voyces be gyuen of the inhabiters of that citie that he of thrce which for their right faith holynesse of life and other good things are most approued should be chosen to the Bishoprike which is the most meete of them Also Carolus Magnus which was the first Germaine a He was Fran corum non Germanorum primus Imperator for Conradus his nephwe Otho did fyrst trāslate the empire from Fraunce to Germanie ▪ as some thynke Emperoure in 63. distinct sacrorum canonum saith being not ignorant of the holy Canons that the holy Church in y e name of God should vse hir honoure the freelyer we assent vnto y e ecclesiasticall order that the Byshops be chosen by election of the Cleargie and people according to the statutes of the canons of that diocesse In the. 63. distinction it appeareth that Ludouicus Carolus his sonne decreed that he shoulde be Byshop of Rome whome all the people of Rome should consent to choose Io. Whitgifte Where do I say that the consent of the Church in the choise of their minister cannot stande with the time of a Christian magistrate I haue said that howsoeuer in the Apostles time that kind of electing ministers was conueniente now in thys state of the Churche it were pernitious and hurtfull whiche to be moste true the differences of the times before by me alleadged do proue The ciuill magistrate may committe this election to such as he liketh best and may vse that maner and kind of choise which he thinketh to be most conuenient for that Church whereof The proofes of T. C. improue his purpose he hath the chiefe care next vnto God And these proofes that you here bring in to iustify your cause in my opinion do quite ouerthrow the same For it appeareth to haue bin in the power of Emperours and ciuill magistrates to appoynte the maner and forme of suche elections why else shoulde they haue néeded to make any lawes or constitutions for that matter It is true that Musculus Lo. com tit de magistra speaking of the ciuill Magistrate sayth Prudenter autem magna c. But he muste wisely and verie Muscul. warilye order the election of ministers seeking nothyng else but that the flock of the Lorde might be prouided for He shall choose not only suche men as are holie but such as are also able to teach He shal flee simonie more than a dog or snake But he shal vse that maner of election which may be most profitable for the Churches And for somuche as hee is not able of himselfe to doe all things which perteine herevnto he shall vse the helpe and aide of faithfull men and of those that feare God vppon whose shoulders he may laye the care or burthen whether they bee within the order of the ministerie of the woorde or of an other profession but notwithstanding in suche sorte that he him selfe doe know them whiche are chosen and if they seeme meete do by his authoritie and power confirme them But to come to your authorities The words that you do alleadge in codice Iustiniani T. C. subtilly concealeth the words of his author that make agaynst hym must somewhere else be sought for I thinke your authoure Illiricus is deceyued in quoting that place for surely I cannot vnderstand that they are to be founde in that booke But from what authoure soeuer they come you haue subtillie left out the words that expound his meaning and make directly against you Wherefore I will recite them worde for word as they are reported in Illiricus the authoure out of whome you haue borowed them Sequentes igitur doctrinam c. Folowing the doctrine of the holy Apostles in that that most pure and vncorrupt Priests ought to be chosen which are appoynted for that cause chiefly that by their prayers they might obtayne the fauoure of the most mercifull God towardes common wealthes we do decree by this present constitution that as often as it shall happen the roome of any priest to be voyde the inhabitants of the same citie shall giue their voyces of three which in true faith holynesse of life and in all other good things are approued and allowed of that of these he whiche shall be moste meete might be chosen Byshop The Emperoure saith that he followeth the doctrine of the Apostles in this that they prescribe what maner of men are to be chosen sci integerrimi incorruptissimi most pure and most vncorrupt not in the maner or kinde of electing as you would séeme to make the Reader beléeue in noting these words only folowing y e doctrine of the holy Apostles and leauing out that which foloweth declareth wherein he meant to folow their doctrine namely de eo quòd debeant eligi integerrimi in
hath not knowledge is by my example edi ied or strengthened to weare a Surp sse wherof he can tel no ground why he should weare it and so sinneth agaynst his con and for this cause S. Paule concludeth that that which a man may o in respect of him selfe may not be done and is not lawfull to be done in respect of other Io. Whitgifte If to weare a surplis were an offence to the weake or if there were not manifest The weake are not offended but they which accōpte them selues most strong groundes in Scripture suche I meane as commaunde obedience to superiours to proue the wearing of the surplis to be lawfull then were it some thyng that you saye But seeing suche onely be offended therewith as accompte themselues most strong and condemne other of infirmitie séeing also that obedience to Magisirates in such indifferent things hath manifest groundes in scripture and to doubt of obedience in suche matters is in eff cte to plucke the Magistrate his sworde out of his hand this reason hath not so muche as any similitude of probabilitie in it Is there any minister of the Churche for of suche only is the Surplis required that will rather bée moued to weare a surplis by the example of an other than by the consideration of his duetie towardes the lawe and 〈◊〉 of the Churche by due authoritie in a lawfull and indifferent thing appointed you might make the same reason serue to plucke downe the Churche the Pulpit the Belles yea to ouerthrowe all orders and all lawes in things indifferent whiche all haue the same grounde of obedience that the surplis hath In the Conf ssion of the Dutche Churche in London whiche is allowed by the Things indifferēt chāge their nature be g cōmanded or forbidden Confess Ec les Belgiog rman Churche of GENEVA and diuers other reformed Churches whereof I haue made mention before it is thus written of things indifferent Things otherwyse indifferent of themselues after a sorte chaunge their nature when by some comma ndement they are eyther commaunded or forbidden bycause neyther they can bee omitted contrarie to the commaundement if they be once commaunded neyther done contrarie to the prohibition if they be prohibited as it appeareth in the Ceremoniall lawe So that the grounde why a man shoulde weare the surplis béeing an indifferente thyng as you co fesse it to be can not be vnknowne to any but suche as know not the ground of their obedience towardes authoritie It is true that in some things indifferent a man must haue respect to the weakenesse In what kind of 〈◊〉 thinges we ughte to haue a resp ct of the we ke of his brother and absteyne from doing that whiche he might lawfully doe rather than to off nde his brother But that is in suche indifferente thynges as bée not by any lawe commaunded or forbidden but lefte frée to euery man to do or not to doe As if to weare the Surplis were by no lawe commaunded but lefte to euery mannes owne disposition then surely if there were any weake offended with the wearyng of it I oughte to absteyne for the weake hys sake but béeyng by lawfull authoritie commaunded to weare it if I should refuse so to do I shoulde offend against the Magistrate and against God who by his Apostle hath giuen thys commaundement omnis anima potestatibus c. let euery soule be subi ct to the higher power Rom. 1 c. which is to be vnderstanded in all things that are not against God And therfore if any man be offended with me in so doing the offence is taken it is not giuen Chap. 1. the fifth Diuision T. C. Page 52. Sect. vlt. Agayne for the stubborne Papists they take herevpon occasion to speake euill of and to bl spheme the truth of the gospell saying that our religion cannot stand by itselfe vnlesse it lea e vpon the staffe of their ceremonies and perswade themselues that those were very well deuised by their Popes that they that are their nimies to their religion cannot be without And herv on they ake occasion to hope that their other trumper e and baggage will in the nd come in againe which ca seth them to be more frosen in their wickednesse and shut their eares vnto the tru h which possibly they would heare if all hope of bringing in of their Poperie were cut off Io. Whitgifte This is but a mere fancy for first it was brought into the Church before theyr Popes whome they hold vpon inuaded that seate as it is afterwards declared Secondly they be not matters that they make any greate accompt of Thirdly they know fullwell that we could be without them and that we but only for obedience sake do not much estéeme of them Wherefore this is an argument framed only vppon light coniectures But beit all this were true shall we for their fancie or fonde iudgement refuse to do that which is lawfull which we may d and which we are bound to do Or in making orders for the Church must we enquire what their opiniō wil be Then plucke downe Churches ▪ c. for of them they make a greater reck ning than they do of the surplisse or any other such like matter I thinke verely that there is not one Papist in England that doth take occasion vpon any thing reteyned in this Church to hope that their other trumperie and baggage will in the end come in gayne neyther is there any cause in respect of them why they should so hope and if they do yet I doubte not but that they shall hoppe without that hope But a man may imagine if he will that there is a man in the Moone with a tree on his backe c. and you cannot let him Chap. 1. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Page 53. Lin. 5. And let it be obserued that throughout the realme there are none that make such clamours and outcries and complaints for these ceremonies as they and those that they suborne They pretende I confe se the Queenes maiestres Imunctions and 〈◊〉 vnto them but who is so blinde as seeth not that they haue another meaning For I appeale vnto the consciences of all that knowe them whether they do it for any obedience towards hi maiestie whose death should be a thousand times better newes vnto them than hir graces mariage Io. Whitgifte The more is the pittie that they should haue suche i st cause of clamoring and that The clamors of Papists should mo the ministers to more circumspection those which should teach them obedience to God and their Prince be examples to the contrary A subtill and craftie Papist wil be glad of any cause of quarelling the more circumspect therefore ought the minister to be in taking héede lest he giue iust cause of the same But there be honest godly and zelous men also that cannot abide s che disorder and contempt whome peraduenture you would gladly straine with the note
For his carefulnesse appeareth and consisteth in this that he hath nowe muche more playnly set down the doctrine of saluation in all pointes than it was in the law and hath also ordeyned that there shoulde be not only fit ministers to publish that doctrine but offices also to gouerne the people in godlinesse As for names and titles other externall things variable according to diuers circumstances he hath left them to the libertie of his Churche as I haue before declared which is one part of his singular goodnesse towardes the Churche in that it is not so seruilely tyed to externall things and to the letter as it was vnder the lawe And it is euidēt that vnder the law there were offices titles in the church which Titles offices in y e church vnder the law where God is not y e chief author are not cōmaunded in the scripture nor wherof we reade God to haue bene the expresse author As Archisynagogus Mar. 5. Scribae or legis doctores 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or magistratus seu duces templi Luc. 22. vers 52. and those seniores populi and that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whervpon you ground your seigniorie For M. Caluin vpon the. 18. of Math. sayth that this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was apoynted after the children of Israell returned from the captiuitie of Babylon Chap. 1. the eleuenth Diuision T C. Page 63. Sect. 1. All men know that the Arke of Noah was a figure of the church Noah was both a wise and a godlie man yet what doth the Lorde leaue to his wisedome when as he appointeth the matter the forme the length the breadth the height the wood the kynd and sorte of wood Io. Whitgifte All men knowe howe vncertaine a reason it is that is grounded vpon figures and Uncertaine reaso ing of figures and allegories 〈◊〉 le t to 〈◊〉 no ded Gen. 8. types excepte the application therof may be founde in the Scriptures For a man may applie them as it pleaseth him euen as he may doe allegories and yet was there manie things required to the Arke whereof there is no expresse mention made and namely nayles or pinnes to ioyn it together neither is it expressed whether the window was of glasse or of chrystal or of neyther Moreouer he is not prescribed to make a couer for it and yet it had one as is declared cap. 8. The ouerseers and maisters of the woorke lykewyse are not there appoynted but lefte to the discretion of Noah There are many other thinges required to the making of suche an Arke whereof there is no expresse mention in that place To conclude Noah beeing in the Arke did thinges which the Scripture dothe not expresse that he was commaunded to do as when he sente out the Rauen and the Doue c. cap. 8. Wherefore I say with M. Caluin in 6. genes Caluin Arcam fuisse Ecclesiae imaginem certum est teste Petro verùm singulas eius parteis ad ecclesiam aptare minime consentaneum est It is certaine that the Arke was a figure of the church by the testimonie of Peter but it is not mete to applie euerie parte thereof vnto the Churche Chap. 1. the twelfth Diuision T. C. Page 63. Sect. 4. In the tabernacle the Church is yet more expressely shewed foorth Moyses that was the ouerseer of the worke was a wise and godly man the artificers that wrought it Bezalaell and Aholiab most cunning workmen and yet obserue how the Lord ▪ leaueth nothing to their will but telleth not only of the bourdes of the courtanes of the apparell but also of the barres of the rings of the strings of the bookes of the beesoms of the snuffers and of the thinges the matter and the form Io. Whitgifte It is well knowen that the Israelites had long continued among the Egyptians a Why God ap pointed so ma ny ceremonies to the Israelites most superstitious kind of people without any law of God written and therfore now being deliuered from them and yet inclined to their Idolatrie God as most writers thinke of his infinite wisedome did so charge them with ceremonies of his owne institution that they should neyther haue leysure to vse any other nor yet desire the Egiptiacall kind of worshipping Touching the tabernacle and the particular description of things perteining to the Pellican same I say with Pellicane These things are particularly described according to the word of the Lord that the people might know that they ought not so much to obey Moyses precepts as the will of God in building the Tabernacle and in freely offering to the same their gold their siluer their brasse their purple c. the which otherwise they would haue abused to their owne vanities and that also they might not be without that bewtie in ceremonies and worshipping of God which they see among the Gentiles Moreouer that they mighte haue matter to occupie them with least they shoulde fall to slothfulnesse and idlenesse So that of this place it may be well gathered that nothing wherein the worship of God doth consist is to be vsed without his prescription but how you can aptly apply thys figure to the externall gouernment and pollicie of the Church I cannot well vnderstand and if you may so vse it yet do you but allegory which is no good kind of proofe bycause allegories may be applyed according to euery particular mans inuention But all that can be truely gathered of this figure is as I haue saide before that Calui e. 35. Exo. in expos 2. praecept ▪ no kynde of worship may be broughte into the Churche of God whiche is not grounded vppon hys woorde and therefore Ma. Caluine speaking of thys tabernacle saythe that God gaue preceptes of the tabernacle and thynges perteyning to it Ne externa pietatis exercitia quae vidimus fuisse admodùm necessaria populum deficerent Least the people should wante the outwarde exercises of godlynesse which we see to haue bene verie necessarie And againe he sayth that when Moyses in the mountaine dydde sée the example of the Tabernacle he was then instructed De vero Dei cultu mysterijs of the true worship of God and of heauenly mysteries And againe speaking of this Tabernacle he sayth Lex Iudaeos ad spiritualem solum Dei cultum instituit sed ceremonijs vestitum vt ferebat temporis ratio The lawe did institute the Iewes only to the spirituall vvorship of God but yet couered with ceremonies as the tyme required Therfore in this figure there was only expressed what shoulde be done in the worshipping of God and not in the externall policie and gouernment of the Churche Chap. 1. the. 13. Diuision T. C. Pag. 63. Sect. 3. Let vs come to the temple which as it was more nere the tyme of Chryst so it doth more liuely expresse the Chur he of God whiche nowe is Salomon the wyse t man that euer was or shall be doth
woulde haue them notwithstanding to absteyne from as from swines flesh Conies c. to the ende that he might haue them seuered as appeareth by S. Paule by a great and high wall from other Nations Eph. 2. And therefore it is verie vnlike that S. Peter woulde frame the ministerie of the Gospel which is no ceremonie but of the substance of the gospel by the example of the heathenish and ydolatrous functions If one had sayde that the Lorde had shapen this common wealth by the paterne of other common wealthes although it had bene most vntrue all other flourishing common wealthes of Athens Lacedemon and Rome borowing their good lawes of the Lordes common wealth yet had it beene more tollerable but to say he framed the ministerie of the Gospell by the Priesthoode of Idolatrie is to fet chastitie out of Sodome and to seeke for heauen in hell And if so be that the Lord had delighted in this Hierarchie he woulde rather haue taken of his owne than borowed of others of his owne Church than of the Synagog of Satan For vnder the law besydes the Leuites there were Priests and aboue them a high Priest Io. Whitgifte God gaue vnto the Israelites a king though other Nations had so in like maner The Israelites had some things like to the Gentiles And he ordeyned degrées of Priests among them to offer vnto him Sacrifices though the Gentiles had the like and what inconuenience could there come by placing Archbyshops which shoulde faythfully preache the worde of God and carefully gouerne the Church of Christ euen in those places where there were Archiflamines who did deface Christianitie and persecute the Christians For by these meanes there could no harme come vnto them as there might haue done to the Israelites by vsing of such things of the Gentiles as he forbad vnto them but the contrarie For this was a meanes to plucke them from all their superstition and Idolatrie Neither is this in any respect a framing of the ministerie of the Gospell by the examples of Idolatrous heathnish functions Except you will say also that bycause the Gentiles had Flamines and the Christians had Bishops therefore the Christian Bishops were framed according to the example of the Gentiles Flamines If you cannot say so truely in Bishops neyther can you iustly affirme it of Archbishops for the reason is all one Do you thinke this to be a good collection where in the Popes time there was a Massing priest now is there placed a Minister of the Gospell Ergo the ministerie of the Gospell is framed according to the example of Massing priests And yet thus do you conclude that bycause there are nowadays Archbishops where before there were Archiflamines therfore the ministerie of the Gospell is framed according to the heathnish and ydolatrous functions Chap. 2. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 68. Sect. 1. And to say that Peter appoynted Archbishops and Bishops * by the example of Idolaters No man hat sayde so Esay 2. is after a sort to make the law to come out of Egypt or Babilon and not out of Sion or Ierusalem as the Prophete sayth Io. Whitgifte Neyther Clement in that Epistle nor Polidore in that booke nor Gratian dist 80. sayth that Peter appoynted Archbyshops and byshops by the example of Idolaters but this onely they say that in those Cities where there were before Archiflamines there were placed Archbyshops and where th re were Flamines there byshops There is greate difference betwixt their kinde of speach and yours Howsoeuer the authors please you or displease you yet report their w rdes truly M. Foxe Tom. 1. Pag. 14. is of this iudgement that where before there were Archiflamines c. there were placed Patriarches c. His woordes be these Thus it is made playne how the M. Foxe tom 1. Pag. 14. byshop of the firste seate or firste byshop or Primate is none other but he which then was called Patriarche and belonged not onely to the Churche of Rome but to all such cities and places whereas before among the Gentiles were Primiflamines c. Dist. 80. cap. rbes loca in illis Hitherto M. Foxe Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 68. Sect. 1. 2. 3. You say after that Iames was an Archbyshop if he were he was the fyrst and placed ouer the Iewes And although S. Peter might to gayne the Gent es be c ntent to vse their dolatrous functions with a little chaunge of their names yet there is none so madde to thinke that he woulde translate any such function from the Gentiles to the Iewes which were neuer before accustomed with any such Flamines or Archiflamines And this I dare generally and at once say against Math. 5. 10. 9. you and your Element that the Lorde translated diuerse things out of the Lawe into the Gospell as the Presbetery or eldership excommunication and the office of Deacons as it is thought for that the Sadducees of whom so often mention is made in the gospell are thought to haue had that office to prouide for the poore for those that knowe the Hebrue tong do vnderstande that Tsadi im 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Tsidkah do not onely signifie Iustices and iuste menne but also almes and almesmen I say these and others more translated from the lawe vnto the gospell but neyther you nor your Clement shall euer be 〈◊〉 to hew that the Lord euer translated any thing from Gentelisme into the gospell Wee reade in the Actes that all the Gentiles were commaunded to conforme themselues vnto Act. 15. the Iewes in the ab ayning from bloud and strangled meate for a tyme but we can n er finde that the Iewes were commaunded to conforme themselues to the Gentiles in their 〈◊〉 the reason whereof is bycause the one was sometyme the lawe of God and therefore he that had conscience in it was to be borne with and the other came from menne and out of their forge which the L rd would neuer g ue so much honor vnto as to make other men by any meanes subiect vnto them Io. Whitgifte If you had not learned that poynt of Sophistrie which is called Petitio princip j whereof I haue so o tentimes told you without doubt you had lacked much matter and your booke would haue ben very thinne For all this adoe in this place is nothing but discanting vpon a false playne song The offices of an Archbishop and Byshop are no Idolatrous functions but Christian and méete both for Iewe and Gentile conuerted vnto Christ neyther are they translated from the Gentiles but grounded vpō the woorde of God practised in the Apostles time approued by the best councells as is declared in the answere to the Admonition and shall be more amplie hereafter occasion being offered Wherefore all this that you haue here sayde the ground being taken away serueth for no purpose Your coniecture of the Deaconship to be taken from the
offended neyther did the priestes or prophets thrust themselues into that busines but so farre foorth as perteyned to admonitions and reprehensions which they applyed out of the word of God according to the qualitie of the offences Therefore the same must be obserued in the new Testament neyther is it needefull that the ministers of the word should haue a peculiar senate or that they should chalenge vnto themselues by any meanes those things that belong to the ciuil Magistrate M. Gualters meaning is that the ministers of the word cannot chalenge the authoritie of pu shing vice otherwise than by admonitions and reprehensions that is that they cannot chalenge this kinde of gouernment of a Seigniorie by the word of God bycause all such authoritie is committed to the ciuill Magistrate So that if Byshops haue it they must haue it from him as it is in this Churche of England And therfore wel sayth M Gualter in the same place there may be appoynted such as shall haue the correction of manners in such countries where the ordinarie magistrates cannot do all themselues but those must be appoynted by the magistrate and do all at his commaundement and not vsurp any distinct Iurisdiction from the ordinarie magistrate The second poynte to be noted is when he sayth that Christian princes must subiecte The prince made subiect to Seniors by the Replyer themselues to the Churche submitte their scepters throw downe their crownes before the Churche c. the whiche kind of speach the Pope himselfe vseth and vnder the same pretence hath troden kings vnder his féete And although T. C. seeme to mislike this excessiue vsing of authoritie by the Pope yet woulde be haue the same iurisdiction to remaine to his Seniors s il whome be vnderstādeth by the name of the Church as appeareth in that which he spake before of these words of Christ Dic Ecclesiae so Pag. 140. in the latter end that he woulde haue the Prince subiect hir selfe to the Seniors of the Churche and throw downe hir crowne before them that is to be con ent to be ruled and gouerned to be punished and corrected to be excommunicated and absolued by their discretion and at their pleasure This no doubt is his meaning neyther can it otherwise be for if this kind of gouernment be once admitted the Prince must néedes be of some peculiar Church and congregation and therefore subiect to the Seigniorie of that Churche except it please master Pastor who is the chéefe and the rest of hys neighbours the parishioners to elect the Prince into the Seigniorie and make hym one of them and yet must the Pastor be his superior and haue authoritie to cal him to consultations and to direct him in matters of discipline and whether he will or no he must be ordered and ruled by the Pastor and most part of the Seniors And yet now I remember my selfe the Prince cannot be of the Seigniorie for T. C. al ttle Pa. 146. sect 1. after graūteth that his Seniors be no lay men but Ecclesiastic ll so that indeede the Prince must be a seruant no master a subiect no Prince vnder gouernment no gouernoure in matters perteyning to the Church And least any man should thinke that this is but my collection though it be most Gualter true and I will iustify it so to be I haue she wed before that whiche M. Gualter affirmeth vpon the. 1. Cor. 5. as he also doth vpon the. 12. Chapter of the same Epistle saying there be some which according to the example of the old and primitiue Church wold haue Seniors and an Ecclesiasticall senate that should haue authoritie ouer magistrates if they at any time do not their duty And in deede this is one of the chiefe causes why our men would so gladly haue a Seigniorie for they would gladly be in hand with magistrates to make them stoupe and bow downe vnto them The third point is in this that he would haue the gouernment of the common wealth The Replyer seeketh the uerthrow of monarchtes and the common wealth it selfe framed to the Churche and the gouernmente thereof as the hangings are made fit for the house whereby as it may seeme he would haue all monarchies ouerthrowen and reduced eyther to a popular or an Aristocraticall estate for these two kinds of gouernment he only alloweth of in the Church as it appeareth by that which he hath thereof oltener than once or twise spoken before Now the lawes of man will beare this I knowe not but I am well assured the Christ the Gospell o enin les so 〈◊〉 law of God will not suffer it For Christe came not to ouerthrow kinds of gouernment and ciuill policie neyther doth the Gospell dissolue kingdomes for S. Peter sayth 1. Epist. 2. Proinde subditiestote cuiuis ordinationi umanae propter dominum siue Reg 1. 1. Pet. 2. c. Submit yourselues vnto all manner ordinance of man for the Lords sake whether it be vnto the king as to the superior And so Paule 1. Tim. 2. to the exhorte him to pray for 1. Timo. 2. kings which he would not haue done if the state of a kingdome could not agrée with the state of the Church But I will not amplify this matter Let such consider of it to whome it doth specially perteine This is your reason to proue that the gouernmente of the common wealth ought to be framed according to the gouernmente of the Churche bycause there was a Church before there was a common wealth but I denie the argumente and your similitude of house and hangings dothe not proue it All the Examples in the Scripture of common wealthes being also the Churches of God declare the contrary neyther can you she we any state altered in thys manner but only among the Anabaptists Of like weyghtis your other reasō which is this Good men that is the Church are as it were the foundation of the worlde the common wealth is builded vpon that foundation therefore the gouernmente of the common wealth must be framed according to the gouernmente of the Churche This gere is to subtile for euery body to vnderstand but the argumente is without all fashion and it is neyther true in matter nor forme For how pr e y u that good menne are the foundation of the worlde The fyrste menne were gréeuous transgressoures the moste of them The euyll menne in multitude and worldely prosperitie haue from tyme to tyme in the worlde ouergrowen them Moreouer the Churche visible conteyneth bothe good and badde and so doth the common wealth and therefore it can not be sayde to be buylded of good menne more than of euill men To conclude if all this were true yet dothe not the argumente followe For the foundation giueth strength but it giueth not the whole forme or fashion to that whyche is buylded vppon it For a man maye make alterations in his house though he doe not once moue or
zeale is euen that that Zuinglius doth charge the Anabaptists with when he sayth Ira est non spiritus quo se venditant The ansvvere to certaine Pamphlets c. In this portion entituled An exhortation to the Bishops to deale brotherly with their brethren ther is no great matter conteined worthie of answering only the author doth excuse himselfe for taking vpon him that exhortation moueth the Bishops to deale brotherly with the authors of the Admonition First bicause they be their rethren secondly bicause they ought first to haue discouered vnto the world by the word of God howe truely or falsely they haue written Thyrdely bycause they do but disclose the disorders of our Churche of England and humbly desyre a reformation of the same according to the rule of Gods worde c. Fourthly that Papists lye abroade in their dioces vntouched c. Fiftly that many lewde light bookes and balades flye abroade printed not onely withoute reprehension but Cum priuilegio Likewise in y e same booke the author seemeth to iustifie the Admonitiō to condemne the lordship and authoritie of Bishops ascribing thervnto the stay hinderance of their pretenced reformation charging them after a sorte with mangling the Scriptures of God and with snaring the godly with such lawes as were purposely made for the wicked These be the principall contentes of that booke The first reason that is That they be their brethren might as wel be alleaged Bretheren may be punished for the impunitie of Anabaptists Arrians and such like who pretend the sinceritie of gods word and would be counted brethren yea it might as well be alleaged for many other malefactours who be also brethren and yet must not therfore escape vnpunished for their offences Shall not the Prince and the magistrate execute lawes vpon suche as breake them bicause they be their brethren in Chryst Beware of such doctrine and let not affection in priuate mens causes carie you headlong into publike errors But I thinke you are in this pointe deceiued for howsoeuer we accompte them our brethren yet they accompt not vs their brethren neyther will they acknowledge vs so to be as some of them both in open speache and manifest signes haue declared And therfore when the Bishops deale with them they deale with suche as disdayn to be called their brethren T. C. Page 177. Sect. 3. After M. Doctor confuteth his owne shadow for the exhortatiō doth not require that the name of a brother should deliuer the authors of the Admonition from punishment if they deserued it but desi eth that it might worke some moderation of the rigoure of it and compassion to minister to their necessities in prison He sayeth that the authors of the Admonition take not them for theyr brethren yes verily although vnbrotherly handled and for fathers too and so both loue them and reuerence them vntill which we hope will not be they shall manyfestly for the vpholdi g of their owne kingdome and profite refuse to haue Christe to reigne ouer vs in whome this fatherhoode and brotherhoode doth consist Io. Whitgifte Let the readers iudge whether it be one of their reasons or no let them also consider that which I haue before alledged out of the second Admonition pag. 35. then tell me whether they take vs for brethren or no. Can you so well please your selues in your own platforme y t except we admit it we refuse Christ to reigne ouer vs I trust he hath reigned ouer vs hitherto and shall doo to the end though your platforme be sunke to the bottome of the sea An ansvvere to certaine Pamphlets To their second reason I answer that I thinke they haue bin talked with and heard what they haue to say for them selues but their hautie mindes and good opinion conceyued of themselues will not suffer them to see their errours In this reason you alledge nothyng for them but that which may also be alledged for the Papists or any other sect of heretikes But it is an old saying Turpe est doctori c. How hapneth it that they themselues haue first defamed not the Bishops only but also this whole Church of England with publike libells before they haue vsed brotherly and priuate conference This is to espie a moate in an other mannes eye c. How true the thirde reason is may appeare in my answere to their Admonition but how true soeuer it were yet their disordered disclosyng by vnlawful meanes that is by libelling deserueth as much punishment as hitherto they haue had for the truth nedeth no such vngodlie meanes of disclosyng If Papists goe abroade vnpunished when by lawe they maye be touched surely it is a greate faulte and can not bee excused and I praye God it maye bee better looked to But thys is no good and sufficient reason for the impunitie of other Bicause some Papistes be not punished shal therfore no disordered persons be punished Or bicause some in authoritie winke at some Papists shall therfore no lawes be executed towardes any offenders Surely touchyng malice agaynst the forme and state of this oure Churche I see no greate difference betwixt them and the Papists and I think verily they both conspire together The same answere I make to youre first reason shall no booke be suppressed bicause some be not It is a faulte I confesse to suffer lewde Ballades and Bookes touchyng Ballets manners But it were a greater faulte to suffer bookes and Libells disturbing the peace of the Churche and defacing true religion Concerning the titles and offices of Bishops I haue spoken sufficiently before In manglyng and wrestyng of the Scriptures none offende so muche as doe the authors of the Admonition who in that point are comparable to the Papistes as may be seene by the learned and diligent Reader If they whom they terme godly do willingly offende against such lawes as were made for the wicked they are to be punished according to the lawes neyther are they to be spared bicause they pretende Godlinesse bre keth no lawe godlynesse for there is no godlinesse in breaking of lawes The thirde scroule called An Exhortation to the Bishoppes and to theyr Cleargie to answere a little booke c. is satisfyed I trus e for I haue as it is there required answered the short and peeuishe Pamphlet as they tearme it I haue disclosed their double and corrupt dealing theyr wringing of the Scriptures to serue their turne and haue declared the true sense meaning of thē I haue not bumbast d it with rethorike but in plain simple maner vttered my iudgement according to uncient fathers contemned o ned men the true meaning and sense of the Scriptures notwithstanding I haue in sundrie pointes declared the vse of the Church of Christ in tymes past and do vse the testimonie of auncient Councels and learned fathers whiche these vnlearned men vnlearnedly contemne a thing not heard of in any age or Churche nor allowed of