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A17914
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A stay against straying. Or An answer to a treatise intituled: The lavvfulnes of hearing the ministers of the Church of England. By John Robinson. Wherein is proved the contrarie, viz: The unlawfulnes of hearing the ministers of all false Churches. By John Canne.
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Canne, John, d. 1667?
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1639
(1639)
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STC 4575; ESTC S115149
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141,377
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156
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necessitated to approue of all the acts conclusions they make but may dislike them if I see they are not as they ought to be The Corinthians for ought I can see resorted unto the Feasts of idols upon the same ground that the Treat layes downe for hearing They went not of superstition for they were to well instructed and Paul in their person brings forth an excuse for them * 1. Cor. â— 4. We know that an idol is nothing As if they should say we regard not what they have devised their publicke false-state concernes us not for we have left it We are in no Church-communion with their Officers our meaning is not to worship as they doe they intend one thing we another But did this satisfie the Apostle Not in the least For he knew their private differing intention was but a strong fruit of the flesh monstrous presumpt on and a meere delusion For their eating was not to be looked upon and judged after their secret meaning But according to that publicke state where they were And here I desire the Reader to note the difference betweene Paul and the Treat Paul makes the sinne of the Corinthians to be their resorting to an idol-state Not simply their eating for thaâ— they might have done else-where but because it was in by or from an institution of the Devil The Treat layes us downe a contrarie Doctrine and tels us a false Church-state is nothing And Antichristian Officer nothing And that we may lawfully worship God in the one and heare his Word preached by the other provided we be not in Church-communion with the Officer c. Truely the difference here is great For the Treat cleares the Corinthians of the thing for which the Apostle condemnes them But I will not presse this further now Only what Augustine * said of the learned Fathers I may speake of the Treatis in stead of him or rather above him Paul the Apostle commeth to my mind to him I runne to him I appeale from all sorts of writers that thinke otherwise For conclusion if the false state of a Church and Ministerie defile only the members thereof And as for other present worshippers they are blameles Jf this I say be a true saying theÌ„ hath he vainely confind himselfe to the Ministerie of the Church of England For his Position will serve as well to justifie hearing among Papists Arrians Sorcinians Iewes Turkes c. Yea further and to be present at any service or worship they doe For what should hinder but according to this ground a man may lawfully goe to the Temples of the Saracens and he are their Preists considering they doe deliver many materiall truths As that God is true and righteous in all his wayes a â— In Alcho ran Azoara 1. The Creator of all things b The giver of every good gyft c Azoar 14. Ad that Iesus Christ is the Sonne of Mary d Azoar 11. the Messenger of God and a true Prophet e Azoar 7. If any object but they utter many lies and blasphemies I answer the hearing simply of errours corrupts not the Hearer For so he consents not to them in judgement not practice but testifieth against them he delivers his owne soule SECT 5. THE Treatiser layes downe our next OBJECTION thus By this then it seemes a man may be present at any act of Idolatrie and doe as others doe that practice Idolatry yet not approue of it And so the three Nobles in Danial needed not to have put themselves upon such pikes of daunger as they did for not falling downe as others did in the place To this he answereth Treat 1. In preaching of the truths of the Gospell no idolatrous act is performed Answ I perceive it is an easie thing to conquest if begging may procure one that But wee are no such children as to give the cause so away 1. Therefore J say in preaching of the truths of the Gospell viz by a false Minister about which is our dispute an idolatrous act is performed And that the Reader may understand this thing the better He is to consider that divine worship is not to be determined by a particular thing howbeit in it selfe good but as all the essentiall parts belonging thereto whether they are persons or things are kept and observed The Church of Rome in Baptisme useth water and in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper gives bread and otherwhile wine too doth this cleare their administrations of idolatry So runns the Treat reasoning But wee cannot receive it for the Lord never spake so by him J thinke all men doe thinke that Vzziah a 2 Chro. 26. 16. committed an idolatrous act when he invaded the Priests Office But what made it so Tooke he unlawfull incense No. Used he strange fire No. Offered he prohibited sacrifice or upon a wrong Altar No. Where then lay the fault The Scripture tels us it pertained not to him to burne incense unto the Lord but to the Sonnes of Aaron b Ver. 18. To apply this if his act were idolatrous because he wanted a calling howbeit observed many truths of the Law By the same reason the church-Church-acts of Antichristian Ministers are idolatrous Yea as for the truths which they preach this clears their acts no more from idolatry then Vzziahs true incense and Altar quitted him from transgression It is truely said of one c Lavaret in Josh 22. Hom 61. pag 7. We ought not to conclude of an action that it is good because it hath in it some thing which in it selfe is so And this is true as in divine things so in humane too For it is a knowne Tenent of Philosophers d Omne totum suis partibus ordinatur mensuretur determinatur the vvhole is composed measured and determined of all the parts Vnto the constitution of the whole according to Aristotlec is required 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. As Iob f Iob. 24.4 saith vvho can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane Not one The false Office by our Oppositâ—es is acknowledged to be uncleane Now to deny that their Ministeriall acts are not from thence is against common sence And this further may be amplyfied by that passage in the Prophet g Hag. 2. 12 13. See Iunius on the place where it is shewed that holy things are polluted by touching things uncleane e Arist 12. Met. 3 Lib. de Poet. cap. 7. 3. If in preaching the truth according to the point in question no idolatrous act is performed Then it will follow that a man may remaine a Minister of a false Church all his life time Provided he only teach * Note that such whom they call Lecturers in some places only preach and doe nothing else As I my selfe for some yeares stood soÌ„ the truths of the Gospell Our reason is for in this if he doe no idolatrous act then he sinneth not so Consequently no just cause of
him And thus doe out best Expositers vnderstand the place Caluine Pareus Piscator Aretius Musculus It is further to be noted where Christ sayh he that receiveth you receiveth me c. His meaning is that such as hearken to and obey the doctrines of his Ministers therein doe acknowledge his authority power kingly office over his Church to appoynt her lawes I meane in a worke of their â—ffice offices ordinances c. and also the fathers donation or the delivering up of the same into his sonnes hand To apply this As they who hearken vnto Christs ministers doe therein approue of his lawfull power over his Church of the fathers guift this way to him soe contrariwise such as hearken * to Antichrists Ministers doe therein approue of Antichrists vnlawfull power over the false Church and the devils ‡ Satan is the author of false ministries in the apostasie of the man of sin donation or his putting of that power into his eldest sons hands If any say we intend not so I answere Res ipsa aliud ostendit the actioÌ„ which they do is so quid verba audiam cum factae videam And here that saying of a learned a man is fulfulled There are some which deny that they worship Idolls T. C. Repl 1. p. 88. 204. when in the meane time their owne doings chargeth them with it Now there are too many in those daies grosly guilty this way His next words are Lavat in Iosh 22. Hom. 61. Treat The Minissters in the Parishes haue not the doctrines of the Gospel from the Bishops as they haue their offices but from God in his word Answ It was a law b Eugin Boron Iure consult l. 1. p. 120. among the Romanes that whosoever passed not into their Citty at the gates but attempted to break throw the walls or to clyme over them should be put to death The Treat in pressing the hearing of the truths of the Gospel would perswade us so we do receiue them it is no matter whether it be by order or disorder whether from the Ministers of Christ or Antichrist Whether in a true Church or in a false But this counsell we cannot take because to our knowledge ther is a divine statute in force against it therefore as we must c T. C. Repl. 1. p 155. care for the truth so must we care of whom we haue it he giues this reason d Ibid. p. 83. As God hath ordained that the truth should be preached so also hath he ordained in what order and by whom it should be preached We may not therefore adventure e Penry Exhort to the govern of Wales pag. 46. to go vnto him for those things which he hath no commission to deliver Suppose Carah or some other in that Conspirasy should haue said thus Come to us yee men of Israell and hearken to beleeve and Obey the truths taught in our Tents If you object that our Calling is anti-Mosaicall and false we answer this cannot be any barre or let in the thing seeing the doctrines we teach are from God in his law J cannot see according to the Treat arguing how in such a case they could haue staid without for if we may go into the Sinagogues of Antichrist so the Doctrines of the Gospel be there preached I would know then of our Opposites why an Israelite vpon the same ground viz. to heare the Doctrines of the law might not haue gon with them rebels into their Tents I beleeve if we come to open termes these will be found to be par pari things alike and the one as lawfull as the other both starke naught But to come more neerer to the point the thing which the Treat harpes most vpon is that they teach the truth And our opposites vse this as their speciall and main position viz. Where the truth is taught there they may lawfully heare To discover their follow herein J pray let it be minded what was said before As the hearing in question is a religious action so to haue it lawfull and good the circumstances perteyning to it must necessarily be observed of which circumstances the truth taught is only one particular It is a received maxime both in divinity and Philosophie that circumstances make actions formally good or bad so write Junius f De pol. Aquinas g 1a 2 a. q. 8. Art 3 Camerius h Praelect Tom. 2. p. 49. and Burgesse i of the lawfullnes of kneeling C. 1. confesseth they are intrinsecall and essentiall to actions and especially making up there nature Fed Morellus vpon these words of Seneca k Scho. 2. Lib. refert quid cui quando quare saith that without these circumstances of things persons time place c. facti ratio non constat Friar Ambrosius Caturinus l Counc l. 2 p. 224. following the doctrine of Thomas meanteyneth in the covnsell of Trent that to do a-good worke the concurrance of all circumstances is necessary What these circuÌ„stances or parts are is shewd in that old vers Quis quid vbi quibus auxilijs cur quomodo quando And to apply them to our point howsoever it be granted that their teaching may be without vitium rei yet in it there is vitium perfoÌ„ae loci ordinis relationis c as the. Trâ— * in aletter to D. Ames published in Brownists schis phraseth it else wher 1. The Person designed is not lawfully called now a false Office and a true worship are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they are no way compatible 2. As it respects the place that is the Idoll-Churchstate so it is to worship God there where he hath forbidden men to worship him 3. For the instruments and meanes in this men make themselues beholding to Antichrist for his order constitution manner and way to serue God in and by Now fye for shame that any should be so base as to scrape acquentance with that Babylonian whore who is the greatest enimy that the Lord hath vpon the earth Iâ— is a most certaine â—igne saith one m Estque merae proditionis certissimum indicium si quis aliqueÌ„ ex suis videat concilia claÌ„ cum hoste captantem aut in eius aurem insuâ—ure anteÌ„ of a very traitour when a man shall see one of his owne take secret counsell with his enimy whisper him in the eare Touching the other circumstances viz. why how when these all are also here wanting as I could instance in sundry particulars if need were But to winde vp all bring all the former into some fewer heads the goodnesse or badnesse of divine worship is to be considered either in actu signato and quo ad specium or in actu exercito and quo ad individium Divine worship is said to be speciated by its object and individuated by its circumstances when divine worship is good or evill in respect of the object of it we say it is