you not answere Amen and saying so with a loud voice do you not signe your selues in the holie solemnitie at the kinges edict What Moses Iosua Dauid Salomon Asa Iehosaphat Ezechias Manasses Iosias Nehemias did for the planting preseruing and purging of true religion and how they commaunded reproued and punished as well Priestes as others for spirituall crimes and causes the places are infinite and witnessed in no worse recordes than the Scriptures themselues I will not touch them all but onely shew that euery one of these in their times raignes medled with Ecclesiasticall men and matters which is the point that you would impugne by your allegations Moses the ciuill Magistrate reproued Aaron the high Priest for making the golden calfe and stamping it to powder cast it into the water that Israell might drinke it and in one daie put three thowsand of them for that idolatrie to the sworde And after the rebellion of Corah when the residue were plagued for murmuring against Moses and Aaron Moses commaunded Aarō to take the censer and stand betweene the liuing and the dead to make attonement for the people And as during life Moses guided ruled them in al things both spiritual and temporal so readie to depart he carefully warned and finally blessed the twelue tribes of Israell Iosua that succeeded him a Prince not a Priest was charged by God to meditate in the booke of the law day night that thou maiest obserue saith God and do according to all that is written therein and the people receiued him with this submission As we obeied Moses in all things so will we obey thee Whosoeuer shall rebell against thy commaundement and will not obey thy wordes in all that thou commandest him let him be put to death And least you should thinke that he commaunded in nothing but temporall matters he circumcised the sonnes of Israell erected an Altar of stone for their offerings read the whole law to them there was not a word of all that Moses commaunded which Iosua read not before all the congregation searched and punished the concealer of thinges dedicated to idols not long before he died in his owne person renewed the couenant betweene God and the people caused them to put away the strange Gods that were among them insomuch that by his diligent care and good regiment Israell serued the Lord all the dayes of Iosua How far king Dauid medled with matters of religion if the Psalmes which he made for Asaph and his brethren to sing in assemblies and order which hee set for the whole seruice of the Temple appointing the Priestes Leuites Singers and other Seruitours of the church their dignities courses and offices did not declare the charge which he gaue to king Salomon his sonne and the praise which he gate at Gods handes for the faithfull execution and religious obseruation of his law giuen by Moses in all thinges and causes both spirituall and temporall are sufficient euidence Take heede to the charge of the Lord thy God saith Dauid to Salomon to walke in his waies and keepe his statutes his commaundementes and his iudgementes and his testimonies as it is written in the law of Moses This God himselfe repeated to Salomō proposing Dauid his father for a paterne vnto him If thou wilt walke before me as Dauid thy father walked in purenesse of heart and vprightnes to doe according to all that I haue commaunded thee and keepe my statutes and my iudgementes I will establish the throne of thy kingdom vpon Israell for euer Phi. Do these wordes proue that Dauid did or Salomon might medle with Ecclesiasticall matters Theo. These places and such like doe fully proue that the Kinges and Gouernours of Israell and Iudah were appointed by God himselfe to haue the custodie charge and ouersight of all thinges mentioned and expressed in Moses law Here you see the wordes are to do according to all that I haue commaunded thee and keepe my statutes and iudgementes To Iosua God saide that thou maiest obserue and doe according to all that is written in the booke of the Law and likewise of the king in generall The booke of the Law shall be with him and he shal read therein all the daies of his life that he may learne to keepe all the wordes of this Law and these ordinances to fulfill them The king was charged with all the wordes and ordinances of Moses Law the law of Moses contained al thinges which God required of Priestes or people both spirituall and temporall ergo the king was charged by God himselfe as well with all Ecclesiasticall thinges and causes as with Temporall And consequently Dauid and all other kinges that discharged their duties to God in such sort as hee inioyned them medled with all thinges and causes Ecclesiasticall and Temporall Phi. Frame your argument shorter Theo. They were charged with all ergo they should medle with all and some discharged their dueties to God for example such as were commended and fauored by God whom I before named ergo some did medle with al the preceptes of God both Ecclesiastical and Temporall Phi. They were charged to obserue the whole Law as all other men were Theo. They were charged for their owne persons as all priuate men were but as kinges they were charged for others in such manner as no subiect coulde be charged namely to see the lawe of God to be publikely receiued fully obserued within their Realmes and all other sortes of Religion and policie to bee cleane forbidden and banished Phi. This is your surmise Theo. It is S. Augustines maine collection in sundrie places fet from the verie Principles of reason and nature and confirmed by the warrant of the sacred Scriptures The king serueth God saith Saint Augustine As a man one waie as a king an other way As a man by liuing faithfully as a king by makeing Lawes with conuenient vigor to commaund that which is right forbid the contrarie And againe Kinges euen in that they be kinges haue to serue the Lord in such sort as none can do which are not kinges For kings in respect as they be kinges serue the Lord if in their kingdomes they cōmaund that which is good and forbid that which is euill How then saith he do kinges serue the Lord but by forbidding and punishing with a religious seueritie those thinges that are done against the commaundementes of the Lord And thus much the verie deriuation of the name doth inferre Rex à regendo dicitur a king is he that ruleth others and the relation of the worde doth teach vs there can be no king but in respect of his subiectes and his duetie towardes them is to direct and correct that is to commaund and punish in all thinges needefull Phi. What conclude you of all this Theo. That where God chargeth the king to keepe and obserue
and eloquence hee seeketh to proue and perswade to the people of this Realme as the chiefest Bulwark of their Defence that were condemned he saith for religion we say for treason and in deed the very ground of all their actions I thought needefull to examine and to let the simple see on what a sandy slime they haue built as well their consciences as their Colleges and in how wretched and vnrighteous a quarell they haue hazarded their liues in this world and their soules in the next to inlarge the power and make vp the purse of their Rhemish founder Taking that therefore in hande I haue worde by worde refelled the fifth chapter of their Defence which purposely treateth of this matter and inserted so much of the fourth as tended to this ende the rest being a voluntarie pang of their vnbridled eloquencc as also I haue ripped vp the shamefull attemptes and tumults of Popes these last fiue hundred yeares for before that time Antichrist neither was nor durst be so bold presuming to displace depose their Lord Maister the Romane Emperor incountering him other Princes with treasons poysons battayles bloodsheds periuries treacheries such as Christendom neuer before tasted of euer since rued Where I haue not only opened the facts noted the meeknes of their martial spirits but haue vnfoulded the causes quarels for which those Princes were thus pursued with such excommunications and depriuations from Rome shewing as I go the Italian stories in fauour of their countrieman and foreman the Pope to bee exceeding partiall The like order I would haue followed in their Apologie but that as I first protested I found nothing in it worthy to bee refuted vnlesse I should haue banded their idle and emptie termes backe againe to them with others of the same making and so brought the cause of Christ and trueth of Religion to a warfare of woordes which I neither ought nor would If any man thinke me no indifferent iudge of their paines it may please him to cast his eye on the second sheete and hee shall find all the proofes and places of their Apologie aunswered in three leanes and of those fewe and weake quotations to haue made a conquest in open writing had beene incke and paper ill imployed I would therefore not take that course which seemed to me neither needeful nor profitable but to benefite the poore deceiued subiectes of this Realme and bring the Iesuites cause to the touch-stone in deede I haue chosen the principall intentes of their Apologie on which their whole foundation standeth and after mine owne course debated them more exactly and largely than the confutation of their Apology would haue suffered me For where they pretend they departed for lacke of the Catholike Sacrifice Sacramentes and Seruice which want in this Realme and because they were forced by oth to confesse an vnnaturall and impossible power in the Prince to be supreme Gouernour of all persons and causes as well ecclesiasticall as temporall and in their absence they resort for reliefe to none but to him that is the head of their catholike communion the chiefe Pastour and Bishoppe of their soules in earth and the vicar generall of Christ to whose predecessors all the famous Fathers called for aide comfort and counsell in their like distresses and traine vppe such as come vnto them in obedience to the churches Lawes Apostolike Traditions both written and vnwritten and to the precepts of Ancients Superiours who haue the promised spirit of trueth and are sent backe againe into this Land to execute spirituall offices and to absolue in foro conscientiae the penitent people from their sinnes of what sort soeuer schisme and heresie not excepted who seeth not that these assertions being the seueral braÌ„ches of their Apologie depend either on religion that is in strife betwixt vs or on the Princes power which they impugne or on the Popes claime to bee head of the church which we deny And therefore the proofe or disproofe of their particular actions must be fet and deriued from those chiefe and capitall springs The consideration whereof first induced mee to neglect the rouing discourses and vaunting florishes of their Apologie no lesse voide of trueth than of proofe and to betake my selfe to a stricter and directer kinde of examining the most materiall pointes on which the rest did hang as first their running to Rome siding themselues with the Pope as Christs Vicar generall against their Prince for which they haue no president in the primatiue Church The next is the princes power to commaund for trueth and right to beare the sword within her owne Realme ouer all persons for thinges and causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall without any subiection or relation to the Popes tribunall which I prooue is agreeable to the Lawes of God and practise of Christes church and therefore the oth importing the same to be good and godlie Thirdly the Popes censuring and depriuing princes of their crownes I shew to be nothing else but a wicked vnchristian pride contumelie not long since deuised by Antichrist to frustrate the word and ordinance of almighty God and to make himselfe great and so of force the subiects which be partakers with him in that hainous conspiracie by perswading assisting executing or defending the same in worde or deede against their princes to bee traytours and not martyrs if they die for that quarell Lastly the publique reformation of diuine Sacramentes and Seruice made by her Maiestie I declare to be Christian and Catholike and the partes of poperie repealed and abolished by the lawes of this Realme to be repugnant I speak for the substance of theÌ„ and not for certain indifferent ceremonies in them to the sacred scriptures and ancient fathers Other incident and adiacent matters I haue handled and those not a fewe as the generall and speciall contentes before and after will better insinuate but these foure bee the pointes that beare the burden both of their first Apologie for their Seminaries and last Defence of English Catholikes By these shal we soone discerne the truth or falshood of their pretences clamors against the Princes Lawes and such as are authorized by her highnesse therefore from the sober sad discussing hereof if they get them as they haue done to outragious and tragicall exclamations we must leaue them as men wilfully diuerting from the right way crying as loude as they can for life to drowne the voices of such as woulde recall them If they looke that all the parts of their Defence should haue bin answered in like sort as the fifth chapter is that labour I say for a man of my calling wold haue bin as fruitles as it is needles the proofs that are not here discussed may â—afely be despised the rest of their rolling rhetorik a diuine neither need regard nor should repeate As much as is inforcing to their purpose is here
William Which Anselmus in his Epistle to Pope Paschalis complaineth of in this sort The king requireth of me that vnder pretence of right I should yeeld to his pleasures which are repugnant to the law will of God For he woulde not haue the Pope receiued nor appealed vnto in his Land without his cōmaundement neither that I should write to him or receiue answere from him or that I should obey his decrees In all these thinges and such like if I demaunded aduise all the Bishops of his Realme denied to giue me any but according to the kings pleasure After that I asked licence of him to goe to Rome vnto the Sea Apostolike the king answered that I offended against him for the onely asking of leaue and offered me that either I should satisfie him for the same as a trespasse by assuring him neuer to aske this leaue any more nor to appeale to the Pope at anytime hereafter or else that I should speedilie depart out of his Land And after in the time of king Henry the 1. when the said Archbishop was returning home frome Rome the kings Atturney in his masters name forbadde him to enter the Land vnlesse he would faithfully promise him to keepe all the customs both of William conqueror his father William Rufus his brother And K. Henry as soone as he perceiued the Pope the Archbishop to continue their former opinion against his liberties presently seased the Bishoprike into his hands and arested all Anselmus goods The like successe had Thurstane Elect of Yorke who gate leaue of K. Henry the 1. to go to the councell of Rhemes giuing his faith that he would not receiue consecration from the Pope comming to the Synode by his liberal gifts as the fashion is wan the Romanes fauor by their meanes obtained to be consecrated at the Popes handes which as soone as the king of England knew he forbad him to come within his dominion To this other such liberties of the crown K. Hēr the 2. not long after made al his Bishops Nobles to be sworne in a generall assembly at Claredon In the yeare of our Lord 1164. K. Henrie being at Claredon in the presence of the Archbishops Bishops Abbots Priors Earls Barons great men of the realme there was made a rehearsal or acknowledgemēt of some part of the Customes liberties of his Ancestors to wit of K. Henrie his grandfather others which ought to be kept in his realme obserued of all to auoide the dissention discord that often happened between the clergie the kings Iustices nobles of the realm Amongst the which custams being 16. in number these were two No Archbishop Bishop nor any other person of the realme may go out of the land without the kings leaue For appeales if any be made they shal come frō the Archdeacō to the bishop frō the Bishop to the Archbishop if the Archbishop faile in doing iustice it shal be lawful to come last of al to the king that by his cōmandement the matter may bee ended in the Archbishops court so that no mā shal proceede to appeale any farther without the kings consent This acknowledging recording of the customes liberties of the crown the Archbishops Bishops Abbots Priors yea the clergie with the Earles Barons all the Nobles sware by word of mouth faithfully promised should be kept obserued to the king his heires for euer simply without fraud Phi. The selfsame writer that you bring dispraiseth those customes calleth them wicked detestable Theo. His report is the stronger against you in that he was a Monke a misliker of those lawes his iudgemēt against vs the weaker For these princely dignities had preuailed from the Conquest til that time were in that age yeelded sworne vnto by the Bishops clergy of his realm are in themselues if you list to discusse them agreeable both to the sacred scriptures ancient councels notwithstanding some Friers fauorers of the Romish See did then doe now to their power withstand them Ph. S. Thomas of Canterbury withstood them vnto death chose rather to lose his life than to yeeld to any such customes The. Do you make him a Saint for resisting his prince or else for sauing certaine lewde priests from the due punishment of the princes lawes Ph. I count him a martyr for spending his blood in defence of the church liberties The. Their rage that slew him I do not commend because it was done by priuate violence not by publike authority but his stout stāding in a peeuish quarrel against his oth against his prince to purchase impunity for homicides other hainous offendors against the common course of law iustice I thinke in these daies you dare not openly defend for feare least the world cry shame on you Ph. You charge him with more thā you can proue The. I charge him with no more than your friendes his are forced to confesse Th. Archbishop of Canter when he had granted these 16. lawes which this superstitious monk calleth wicked detestable promised with an oth to keep them examining diligently that which he had rashly done afflicted himself grieuously sent straightway messengers to the court of Rome to signifie the grief of the church his own asked absolution from the band which he had vnwisely entred into which also he obtained The same yeare K.H. meaning as he said to punish with due seuerity the disorders of al sorts affirmed it to be against reason that he should deliuer to the bishop such clergie men vnpunished as were conuicted before his Iustices of any publike hainous crime And therfore he decreed that whō the Bishops sound guiltie in the presence of the kings iustice they should degrade and deliuer to the kings court to be punished The Archbishop held on the contrary that they ought not to be punished by laymē after they were degraded by the Bishop lest they shold be twise punished for one thing The occasiō of this strife was giuē by one Philip de Broc a canō of Bedford which being indicted of murder spake reprochfully to the Iudge which when he could not deny before the Archbishop he was depriued of his prebend exiled the land for 2. yeares The Archbishop seeing the liberties of the Church now troden vnder foote without the kings knowledge tooke ship intended to go to Rome but the wind being against him he was driuē back to the shore And immediatly vpō that when he was called to accompt for the whole receits that came to his handes whiles he was Chauncelor of England least he should vniustly be cōdemned he appealed to the See of Rome vnder paine of excōmunication forbad as well the Bishops as all the nobles to giue sentence against him that was there both their father and their Iudge The Nobles
and Bishops that were called by the king for this purpose without conuiction or confession of his gaue iudgement against him alleaging and protesting the priuilege of himselfe his church The Archbishop driuen to this extremity and forsaken of al the rest of the Bishops hoysed the crosse which he held in his hand aloft marched away frō the kings court in the eyes of thē al the next night stale frō the place gate him ouer to Flaūders so to the Pope He brake the oth which he took for the keeping of the foresaid lawes liberties of the crown he claimed a freedom for theeues murderers y◠they should not be subiect to the princes power he refused the kings court appealed to the pope for a matter of debt lest he shuld rēder an accoūt of his tēporal office whiles he was Chācelor which of these three points cā you now with learning or honestie defend Phi. The liberty of the holy Church is a iust good quarell for a man to die in Theo. If you meane thereby an impunitie for mutherers such like offendors then is it a most wicked and irreligious part for a Bishop to open his mouth for such libertie much more to resist his Prince for that quarrell Phi. His quarrel was better than so Theo. Neubrigensis a man of that age and one that honored the person and praised the zeale of Th. Becket reporteth thus of the quarell betweene the king him The king saith he was aduertised by his Iudges that many crimes were committed by clergie mē against the lawes of his Realm as thefts roberies murders In so much that in his audiēce it was they say declared that more than an hundred murders were done in England by clergie men in the time of his raigne Wherefore the king very much kindled in a vehement spirit made lawes against malefactors of the clergie which hee thought to make the stronger by the cōsent of the Bishops Calling therefore the Bishoppes togither hee so plied them what with faire meanes what with foule that they al saue one thought it best to yeeld and obey the kings will and set their seales to those new statutes I say all saue one for the Archbishop of Canterburie would not bow but stood immoueable Whereupon the king began to be greatly offended with him and seeking all occasions to resist him called him to account for those things which he had done before as Chauncellour of the Realme Now must you shewe that by Gods lawes theeues and homicides if they be clerks may not be punished by the princes sword or if you dare not plead that in these dayes for very shame then must you grant that your Canterbury saint resisting his Prince where he should not was an Archrebell against God and the Magistrate one of these twaine you must needes choose Phi. We shal digresse too far if we discusse these things in this place Theo. Your stomake I see doth not serue you at this present wee shall haue some other oportunitie to debate the same in the meane time learne what lawes king Hērie the 2. enacted executed in spite of your holy father his deuout chaplin The king at the returne of his Legates perceiuing his request for the confirmation of his ancient liberties to be repelled by the Pope not a little offended therewith wrote letters to all his Shirifes Lieutenants in England on this wise I command you that if any clergie man or lay men in your coūtie appeale to the court of Rome you attach him hold him in fast ward till our pleasure be known And to his Iudges in this sort If any man be foūd to bring letters or mandate from the Pope or from Thomas the Archbishop interdicting the Realme of England let him be taken and kept in prison till I send word what shal be done with him The four that wrate the life extol the facts of Th. Becket ad to this law Let him be streightway apprehended for a traitor execution done vpon him Also let no clerk monk canon or other religious person go ouer the Seas without letters of pasport frō vs of our officer if any venture otherwise let him be taken cast into prison Let no man appeale to the Pope or to Th. the Archbishop neither let any suite surcease at their cōmandement If any Bishop Abbot Clerk or lay man shal obserue their sentence interdicting our Land presently let him bee banished the Realme and all his kindred with him and their goods and landes confiscated Let the Bishops of London and Norwich bee summoned to appeare before our Iustices and there to answere for interdicting the Land and excommunicating the person of Earle Hugh contrarie to the Statutes of our Realm Thus far the valiant worthie Prince went in defending his Lawes liberties against the Bishop of Rome how far hee would haue gone but that the time was not yet come when God would deliuer his Church from the yoke of Antichrist appeareth by an Epistle of his written to the Archbishop of Cullain in these wordes I haue long desired to finde a iust occasion to depart from Pope Alexander and his persidious cardinals which presume to maintaine my traytour Thomas of Canterbury against me whereupon by the aduise of my Barons cleargie I meane to send the Archbishop of Yorke the bishop of London the Archdeacon of Poictiers c. to Rome which shall publikely denounce plainly propose this on my behalfe and all the Dominions I haue to Pope Alexander and his cardinals that they maintaine my traytour no longer but rid me of him that I with the aduise of my cleargie may set an other in the church of Canterburie They shall also require them to frustrate all that Becket had done and exact an oth of the Pope that he and his successors as much as in them lieth shall keepe and conserue inuiolable to me and all mine for euer the Royal customs of king Henrie my grandfather If they refuse any of these my demands neither I nor my Barons nor my clergie will yeeld them any kinde of obedience any longer yea rather we will openly impugne the Pope and all his and whosoeuer in my Lande shal be founde hereafter to sticke to the Pope shal be banished my Realme Phi. The king made amends for all when the Archbishop was slaine renoūcing the liberties which he striued for so long and honoring him as a Martyr whom before he pursued as a traitor Theo. The manifold deuises practises of the late Bishops of Rome God so punishing the dulnesse and discorde of Princes neglecting his truth and enuying one an other haue weakened and wearied very many both kings and Emperours partly with a false perswasion of religion partly with a number of fayned miracles but chiefly by drawing their subiectes from them and setting other nations vpon them yea by stirring and arming their owne
blood and bowels against them And therefore no maruaile if king Henrie relented somewhat of his former stoutnesse when the king of Fraunce the Earle of Flaunders the king of Scots the yong king his sonne and two other of his children the Duke of Aquitane and Earle of Britaine cōspired against him but it is euident that frō the conquest till the time these lawes and liberties stood in their full force and were publikely receiued and vsed in this Realme Phi. Did the Pope procure him these enemies Theo. What packing there was betweene the French king and the Pope though the stories in this place do not confesse yet we may soone coniecture by the generall drift of your holy Father his blessed adherents in those daies specially by the exāple of king Iohn the sonne of the said king Henrie whom for refusing the disordered election of Stephen Langton to the church of Canterbury Innocentius the 3. so terrified with open inuasion of enemies secret defection of subiects that for safegard of himselfe he was driuen to resigne his kingdome take it againe at the Popes hands in fee farme vnder the yearly rent of a thowsand marks binding himself his heires for euer to do the like homage fealtie to the Bishops of Rome for the crowne of England Which shamefull seruitude of the Prince vtter ruine of the Realme so much displeased the barōs bishops that before toke the Popes part against the king that in plaine contempt of the Popes keies curses they chose them an other king chased king Iohn the Popes farmour from place to place in despite of al y his new Landlord could do or deuise But this I omit because the quarel touched the right title to the crown I medle only with those resistances which the kings of England made for men and matters ecclesiastical Phi. I trust they were not many Theo. For the first hundred yeares next the cōquest it is clear the kings of this Realm would neuer allow their subiects to run to Rome nor suffer appeals to be made to the Pope without their expresse consent now shall you see what they which came after did When king Edw. the 3. reuiued the statute of Premunire made by king Edw. the 1. in the 35. year of his raign against such as sought to Rome to prouide thē of benefices other ecclesiastical promotions wtin this realm enacting the same penalty for those that by processe frō thence impugned any iudgement giuen in the kings courts or brought from Rome any Bul writing or instrumēt to those other like effects Gregory the 11. then Bishop of Rome vnderstanding therof was very earnest against it protesting this was nothing else but to make a schism in the church of Christ to abolish religion to subuert right reason infringe al coūcels speedily dealt with king Edw. to abrogate this law A schisme rising not long after in the church of Rome there was not a Pope that had any care of this til at lēgth Martin the 5. wrote more vehemēt letters to K. H. the 6. But these two bishops of Rome receiued one the same answer which was that an act of Parliament could not be repealed without the autority of a Parliamēt that shortly one should be called to that end which neuer after was performed Yea the king that came after did not only cause that law to be kept put in vre but increased the terror of it with a rigorous punishmēt which is that the party so offending shal forfeit his goods himself be condemned to perpetual imprisonmēt This writer an Italian born a man wedded to the See of Rome confesseth the Popes authority was abated restrained by the lawes of this Realm in the time of king Edward the 3. and so continued euer after that not only the Popes letters were twise refused but the sharpnesse of the punishment increased to strengthen the Statute that pared their power and limited his iurisdiction within this Realme Phi. Perhaps they wtstood him for tēporal matters Theo. The matters were such as your own church accoūteth spiritual to wit electiōs of Bishops gifts of benefices procedings in other causes tending as the cōmplaint of Gregory teacheth you to the diuision of the church extirpation of religion subuersion of al councels which you may not thinke to be temporall matters And this resistance which the Bishop of Rome so much repined at in the daies of king Edward the 3. neuer ceased till king Henry the 8. of famous memory banished the Popes vsurped power cleane out of this Land Phi. So did none of his progenitors before him Theo. It may be they wēt not so far as he did but as Polydor writeth R. Rich. the 2. wēt fairly towards it In a Parliament held the 14. yeare of his raigne the king his princes were of opinion that it would be very good for the realme of England if some part of the Popes dominion were determined with the Sea that is excluded out of this lād for that many wer daily vexed for causes which they thought could not so easily be ended at Rome Wherefore they made a law that no mā euer after should deal with the Bishops of Rome that any person in Englād should by his autority for any cause be excōmunicated that none should execute any such precept if it were sent him If any mā brake this law the pain apointed was he should lose al he had ly in prison during his life And where the pope trauailed by al means to ouerthrow the statute of prouisiō premunire the parliamēt held in the 13. year of Rich. the 2. for the better establishing surer executing of the law made it death for any mā to bring or send Bul or other proces frō Rome to impugn the same These be the words Itē it is ordained established that if any mā bring or send within this realm or the kings power any sūmōs sentēce or excōmunicatiō against any persō of what cōditiō that he be for the cause of making motiō assent or executiō of the said statute of Prouisors or premunire he shal be takē arested put in prison forfeit al his lands tenements goods catle for euer moreouer incur the pain of life mēber So the kingdoms cōmonwelths as wel as councels of al others Frāce England haue from time to time resisted your holy father in the midst of his terror tyrany P. You shew they did it but you do not shew they did wel in it Th. I need not you must shew they did il The prince by gods ordināce beareth the sword not the pope therfore the presumption lieth for the prince against the pope til you proue the cōtrary besids if bishops in a synod may lawfully resist him why may not princes in their parliamēts
your owne fellowes haue reported lamented in no worse than the fountaines of your faith and heads of your Church I wil not say the refues of England but euen the Priests of Baal and Bacchus were Saints in comparison of so lewd and intolerable monsters Stephanus the sixt and Sergius the third pulled Formosus their predecessor out of his graue the one cutting off his fingers the other his head and cast his carkas into Tybris Iohn the twelfth gaue orders in a stable amongst his horses abused his fathers concubine made his pallace a stues put out his Ghostly fathers eyes gelded one of his Cardinals ranne about in armes to set howses on fiar drank to the diuel and at dise called for help of Iupiter and Venus Boniface the seuenth getting the Popedom by il meanes robbed Saint Peters church of al the Iewels pretious things he could find ranne his waies returning not long after caught one of his Cardinals put out his eies Syluester the seconde leauing his Monasterie betooke himselfe wholly to the diuel by whose help he gate to be Pope on this condition that after his death he should be the diuels both bodie and soule Benedict the ninth sold his Popedome to Gregorie the sixt and was therefore worthily blamed of all men and by Gods iudgement condemned For it is certaine that after his death he appeared in an ougly shape with the head and taile of an asse the body of a beare and being asked what that horrible sight ment because saith he whiles I was Pope I liued like a beast without law without reason defiling the Chaire of Peter with al kind of lewdnes Of Gregorie the seuenth and his adherents Beno the cardinal writeth thus Let these hypocrites hold their peace that haue disgraced almost drouned the name of blessed Peter by cloking the flames of their malice vnder a colour of Catholicisme pretēce of iustice Let these false prophets be astonished that are curteous in shew scorpiōs in sting wolues vnder lambs skinnes killing the bodies deuouring the soules of men with the sword of their mouth whose religion sauoureth nothing but of traiterousnes and couetousnes entring the houses of widowes they lead women captiues that bee loden with sinnes and by reason of our troublesome times giue eare to spirits of error and doctrines of diuels which Hildebrand their captain learned of his maisters Benedict the ninth and Gregorie the sixt Gregorie the ninth as Vrspergensis cōplaineth taking occasion by the Emperours absence that was fighting against the Turke sent a great armie into Apulia and inuaded subdued the Emperours dominions being thē in the seruice of Christ a fact most hainous and did his best both in Apulia and Lumbardie to hinder such as were going that viage from passing the Sea seeking thereby to betray the Christian Emperour his armie to the Turke Yea the men of Verona Millan would suffer none to passe by their coasts spoyling the very souldiers that were sent to fight against the Turke and that by the cōmandement of the Pope as they affirmed which alas is horrible to be spoken Who rightly considering wil not lament and detest these things as portending and foreshewing the ruine of the Church Mathewe Paris giueth Innocentius the 3. this commendation King Iohn saith he knew and by often experience had tried that the Pope aboue al mortal men was ambitious and proude an vnsatiable thirster after money and easie to be drawen and induced to all wickednes by gifts or promises Sixtus the fourth made his playfelow Cardinal who was wont to weare cloth of gold at home in his house to ease nature in stooles of siluer and to deck his harlot Tiresia with shoes couered with pearle as Agrippa reporteth he built a sumpteous stewes in Rome appointing it to be both masculine and feminine and making a gaine of that beastly trade As Vuesselus Gronnigensis sayth he gaue the whole familie of the Cardinal of S. Luce free leaue in Iune Iulie August to vse that which nature abhorreth God in Sodome reuenged with fire and brimstone One of your owne side perceiuing the lothsomnes of his life maketh the diuel giue him this entertaynment in hell At tu implume caput cui tanta licentia quondam Femineos fuit in coitus tua furta putabas Hic quoque praetextu mitrae impunita relinqui Sic meruit tua faeda venus sic prodigia in omnem Nequitiam ad virtutis opus tua auara libido But thou thou bauld pate which hast so licentiously defiled thy self with women didst thou thinke thy secrete sinnes by reason of thy myter shoulde here goe vnpunished Receiue the rewarde of thy filthie pastimes so hath thine outragious lust to all lewdnes and voyde of all goodnes deserued It is too shameful that Iohannes Iouianus Pontanus writeth of Lucretia the daughter of Alexander the sixt Hoc tumulo dormit Lucretia nomine sedre Thais Alexandri filia sponsa nurus Here lyeth Lucretia in name in deede a shamelesse whore the daughter of Pope Alexander her fathers brothers harlot The fact so horrible that it were not credible if others did not confirme the same I will trouble chast eares no longer with this vnsauory repetition These disorders of Popes if you weigh them well be more than scandalous giue you smal cause to vaunt of your vertues Phi. These be the things that we told you were more false than Esops fables Theo. It were reason you shoulde proue them false before you reiect them as fables men of your owne sect and side laying thē down for truths in their writings you may not now take vpō you to pronounce them fables lest your credite be called in question your selues reputed to bee worse than lyars These things be they true bee they false wee report them as we find them in your owne stories not your aduersaries but your welwillers were the first autors of them And vnlesse wee see some surer ground than your bare deniall we may better charge you with open flatterie than you may them with wilful forgerie Phi. The number is not great though y◠matters were true Theo. The rest of their outrages if I would recken namely their schismes cōtentions tumults for the Popedom their ambition presumption oppression briberie periurie tyrannie pride craft hypocrisie to conclude their garboyles battailes and bloodshed an whole volume would not suffice And where you make your Clergie so free from scandals heare what men of former times and of your owne side haue spoken and written of your Bishops Priests Monkes and others Bernard of his age Behold saith he these times very much defiled with the worke that walketh in darknes Wo bee to this generation because of the leauen of Pharisees which is hypocrisie If it may be called hypocrisie which is now so rife that it can not and so shamelesse that
better and acknowledge your error Phi. When you proue that we may do this which will neuer be Theo. Marke first what we reath and next what we proue that you be not deceaued Wee teach that God in deliuering the sworde to Princes hath giuen them this direct charge to prouide that as well true religion be maintayned in their Realmes as ciuil iustice ministred and hath to this end allowed Princes ful power to forbid preuent and punish in all their subiects be they laymen Clercks or Bishops not only murders thefts adulteries periuries and such like breaches of the seconde table but also schismes heresies Idolatries and all other offences against the first table pertayning onely to the seruice of God and matters of religion Wee doe not imagine this of our owne heades we find it annexed to the crowne by God himself who when he first gaue the children of Israel leaue to choose them a king withall appointed that the Law truely copied out of the Leuites original which was kept in the tabernacle should be deliuered the king sitting on his royal seate with this charge That booke shall remaine with the king he shall reade in it all the dayes of his life that he may learne to feare the Lord his God obserue all the wordes of the law there written and these statutes to do them This was not doone till he was placed in his throne so sayth the text therefore this touched not the kings priuate conuersation as a man but his Princely function as a magistrate which will you nill you stood in cōmaūding others not in guiding his own person For no man is a king in respect of himself but in ruling his subiects As a man he serued God one way sayth Austen as a king an other way As a mā by faythful lyuing as a king in setting forth lawes to cōmaund that which is good and remoue the contrarie So that kings as kings serue God in doing that for his seruice which none but kings can do Then if the whole Law were cōmitted to the king as a king at his coronation that is to cōmaund it others which none but kings could doe within their Realmes ergo the publishing preseruing and executing of the first table touching the sincere worship of God was the chiefest part of the Princes charge To make my cōclusion the stronger let vs see what the godly kings of Israell Iudah did in matters of religiō hauing no farther nor other cōmission frō God than this which I last repeated The diligēt executiō of their office wil serue for an euidēt expositiō what God required at their hānds We cā look for no plainer declaratiō of Gods meaning in this point thā Gods own cōmendatiō of their acts in this case The lawmaker is the best interpreter if they by their princly power remoued idols razed hilalters slue false prophets purged the land frō al abominations not sparing the brasen serpent made by Moses whē they saw it abused if again by the same power they caused the tēple to be clensed the law to be read the couenant to be renued with God the passouer to be kept the Leuits to minister in their courses inuēted by Dauid if to conclude the prince deposed the chiefe bishop placing a fitter in his steed forced al prophets priests people that were found in Israel sincerely to serue the Lord their God if I say they did al this as the scripture beareth record they did their zealous proceedings in these cases were liked accepted praised by Gods own mouth who besides Iesuits is either so blind that he seeth not or so froward that he confesseth not that princes were charged by God himselfe to plant establish his true seruice in their dominions with their Princely power to prohibite punish all offences abuses be they temporal or spiritual against the second or first part of this heauenly law Phi. This charge concerned none but the kings of Israell Iudah The. That refuge doth rather manifest your folly thā satisfie my reason did I pray you Sir the cōming of Christ abolish the vocatiō of princes I tro not Thē their office remaining as before per cōsequent both the same precept of God to them stil dureth also the like power to force their subiects to serue God Christ his son standeth in as ful strēgth vnder the gospel as euer it did vnder the law For princes in the new testamēt be Gods ministers to reuēge malefactors as they were in the old the greater the wickednes y◠rather to be punished ergo the greatest as heresies idolatries blasphemies are sonest of al other vices to be repressed by christiā magistrates whose zeal for Christs glory must not decrease Christs care for their scepters being increased and those monuments of former kinges left written for their instructiō Were not this sufficient as in truth it is to refute your euasion yet king Dauid forseeing in spirit the heathē kings would bād thēselues assemble togither against the Lord his Christ extēdeth the same charge to the gētiles which the kings of Iurie receiued before warneth thē al at once Be wife ye kings vnderstād ye iudges of the world serue the Lord. Upon which words S. Aug. inferreth thus Al men ought to serue God in one sort by cōmon cōdition as mē in an other sort by seueral gifts offices by the which som do this some that No priuat person could cōmand idols to be banished clean frō among men which was so long before prophesied Therfore kings besides their duty to serue God common with al other men haue in that they be kings how to serue the Lord in such sort as none can do which are not kings For in this kings in respect they be kings serue the Lord as God by Dauid enioyneth them if in their kingdoms they cōmand that which is good prohibite that which is il not in ciuile affaires only but in matters also concerning diuine religion With this indeuor of christian princes God cōforteth his church by the mouth of Esay Thou shalt suck the brests of princes kings shal be thy foster fathers and Queenes thy nurcing mothers What Esay saith princes shal do that I cōclude princes must do because God would not promise they should vsurp an other mās office but discharge their own Thē if you frō Rhemes or your brethrē frō Rome tel vs y◠the nurcing of christs church is no part of the princes duty we detest your insolēt negatiue God is truth who saith it you be liars If you take the milke of princes for tēporal honors lāds goods which your church in deed hath greedily swallowed the very children wil laugh you to skorne The church of Christ is no wāton she lusteth for no worldly wealth which is rather hurtful poison than holsom food Gods prouision for hir is spiritual
Ecclesiastical causes Theo. Proofes go very low with you when you fal from Princes to inferiour iudges yet mistake your text For Hilarie beseecheth nothing of CoÌ„stantius in that place but that the iudges of euerie Prouince should forbear medling in matters of religioÌ„ with tortures violeÌ„ce The whole book the words before the next part of the same sentence ioyned to this which you bring with a coniunction copulatiue confirme that to bee the true meaning of Hilarie This is the right order of the place We beseech not only with words but also with teares that the catholike churches be no longer oppressed with greeuous iniuries sustain intolerable persecutions coÌ„tumelies that which is shameful eueÌ„ of our brethren Let your clemency prouide appoint that all iudges euery where to whom prouinces are committed which ought to take care charge of commonwealth matters onely refrain from medling with religion Neither let them presume vsurp think they may enter into clergymens causes force vexe innocent men with diuerse afflictions threats violence terrours Your singular admirable wisedome perceiueth it is not seemely it ought not to be that men should be forced coÌ„pelled against their wils harts to yeeld addict themselues through violent oppressioÌ„ to such as cease not to sow the corrupt seeds of false doctrine This was the medling with clergie mens causes that Hilarie ment and which he would haue temporall iudges restrained from and yet were his meaning neuer so generall he required nothing but that which Constantine the father of Constantius had by his publike lawes ordained al christian Princes haue since obserued to wit that Ecclesiasticall persons should be conuented before ecclesiasticall iudges For so Constantine decreed CoÌ„mitting iudgemeÌ„t iurisdiction ouer clearks to Bishops Valentinian the elder would haue priests to iudge of priests Yea Iustinian excludeth all secular iudges from hearing the causes of clergie men except it were for ciuill offences If the crime be ecclesiasticall needing ecclesiasticall reformation punishment let the Bishop determine the same the iudges of the Prouince no way intermedling for we wil not haue temporall iudges enter into such matters where as such faults must be examined ecclesiastically by the sacred and diuine rules and Canons which our lawes take no scorne to follow And though he bar ciuill iudges from the hearing of such causes yet doth not exempt clergie men Bishops nor others from the obedience of his ecclesiastical lawes as the wordes import that bee next to these Omnibus quae iam a nobis sancita sunt siue super sanctiss ecclesus siue super Deo amabilibus Episcopis siue super clericis siue super monachis propriam virtutem habentibus All thinges which we haue already decreed concerning the most holie churches and blessed Bishops and touching clerkes and monks standing in their ful force Hee quiteth clergie men from temporall barres but he bindeth both them and their iudges to the tenor of his ecclesiasticall lawes as well in their Synods as in their Consistories as appeareth at large by his 123. constitution so that this place of Hilarie might well haue been spared saue onely to make vp your tale Phi. Is this your opinion that Princes themselues may lawfully medle with Ecclesiasticall causes and persons though their inferiour iudges may not Theo. We say princes exempted clergie men from secular iudges but not from themselues And that Princes from the beginning haue medled with persons causes Ecclesiasticall wee bring you not onely fiue authorities that shall bee neither maimed nor wrested as yours bee but fiue hundred actes examples lawes and edictes that shall bee strong and effectuall proofes for this purpose Phi. You talke of cost when you saie fiue hundered Theo. Wee coulde far passe that number if the number would moue you to leaue follie but I will go an other waie to worke with you What good king can you name before or after Christ for 1000. yeares but such as medled with Ecclesiasticall matters Phi. Nay what good king can you name that did Theo. They be sooner named than answered Nabuchodonosor in making a law that euery people nation language which spake any blasphemie against the God of Sidrac Misac and Abâ—dnago should bee drawen in peeces their houses made priuies did hee not medle with matters of Religion Phi. Nabuchodonosor was a tyrant The. But being corrected by the diuine miracle he made saith Augustine a religious and commendable law for the truth that who so blasphemed the God of Sidrac Misac and Abednago should with his house perish vtterly Darius vpon the sight of an other miracle wrote to all people nations and languages that dwelt in the world with these words I make a decree that in all the dominion of my kingdome men tremble and feare before the God of Daniell The king of Niniueth hearing of that which Ionas threatned from God proclaimed a fast and charged all men to put on sack-cloath and crie mightily to God and to turne from their euill wayes and the wickednesse that was in their handes I trust you dare not condemne the king of Niniueth for an intruder vpon ecclesiasticall causes whose seruice so well pleased God that he spared the king and his subiectes from destruction hanging ouer their heads and yet fasting praier and repentance be causes meere spirituall in which the king interposed his royall authoritie by the councell of his Nobles and not of Ionas who departed the citie grieued and angrie with God for pardoning the Niniuites vpon their conuersion The factes of these three kinges I alleadge the rather because S. Augustine grounded himselfe vpon them as proofes that christian kinges may medle with matters of Religion and as patternes for them to follow Ye kinges vnderstand be wise ye that iudge the earth serue the Lord with feare and reioyce before him with trembling How do kings serue the Lord in feare but by forbidding and punishing with a religious seueritie those thinges which are done against the precepts of God As the king of Niniueth serued by compelling the whole citie to appease the Lord. As Darius serued by giuing the Idole into Daniels power to bee broken and casting his enemies to the Lions As Nabuchodonosor serued by restraining all that were in his kingdom from blaspheming God with a terrible law And againe WheÌ„ Emperours professe the truth they commaunde for truth against error As Nabuchodonosor proposed an edict for truth against error that whosoeuer blasphemed the God of Sidrach Misaach and Abednago should be destroied and his house dispersed And you Donatistes will not that christian Emperours command any such thing against you If the commaundements of kinges haue nothing to do with the publishing of religion and prohibiting of sacrileges why then do you signe your selues at king Nabuchodosors edict commaunding such thinges For when you heare it doe
the time long the Princes wise the factes knowen the Church of Christ honoured and obeyed those decrees It is no doubtfull question but a manifest trueth that the best Princes before Christ and after Christ for many yeares medled with the reformation of the Church and prescribed lawes both Ecclesiasticall and Temporall S. Augustine accompteth them not vsurpers as you doe but happie Princes that imployed their authoritie to delate and spreade the true worshippe of God as much as they coulde and auoucheth plainely that God him-selfe speaketh and commaundeth by the mouthes and heartes of Princes when they commaunde in matters of Religion that which is good and whosoeuer resisteth their Ecclesiasticall Lawes made for trueth shall bee grieuouslie plagued at Gods handes Imperatores felices dicimus si suam potestatem ad DEI cultum maximè dilatandum maiestatis eius famulam faciunt Wee count Princes blessed if they bende their power to doe God seruice for the spreading of his true worshippe as much as they can Hoc iubent imperatores quod iubet Christus quia cum bonum iubent per illos non iubet nisi Christus Emperours commaunde the selfe-same that Christ doeth because when they commaunde that which is good it is Christ him-selfe that commaundeth by them And â— little after Attendite qua manifestissima veritate per cor regis quod in manu Dei est ipse Deus dixerat inista ipsa lege quam contra vos prolatam dicitis Marke yee with howe manifest trueth by the Kinges heart which is in Gods hande GOD himselfe spake in that verie Lawe which you saie was made against you And therefore hee concludeth Quicunque legibus Impâ—ratorum quae pro Dei veritate feruntur obtemporare non vult grande acquirit supplicium Whosoeuer will not obey the lawes of Princes which are made for the truth of God is sure to beare an heauie iudgement The Princes themselues will teach you that by their power they may by their charge they should medle with matters Ecclesiasticall The authority of our lawes saith Iustinian disposeth diuine and humane thinges Thence is it that we take greatest care for the true religion of God and honest conuersation of Priestes So likewise Theodosius and Valentinian Ea quae circa Catholicam fidem vel ordinauit antiquit as vel parentum nostrorum authoritas religiosa constituit vel nostra Serenitas roborauit nouella superstitione remota integra inuiolata custodire praecipimus Those thinges which ancient Princes haue ordained or the religious authoritie of our Progenitours decreed or our highnesse established concerning the catholike faith wee commaund you to keepe them firme and inuiolable all latter superstition remoued And this they recken to be the first part of their Princely charge Inter caeteras sollicitudines quas amor publicus peruigili nobis cogitatione indixit praecipuam Imperatoriae maiestatis curam esse praecipimus verae religionis indaginem Among the rest of those dueties which the common-wealth exacteth at our handes we perceiue the inquirie of true religion should be the chiefest care of our Princely calling Valentinian the elder though at first hee refused to deale with profound questions of religion yet after hee was content to enterpose his authoritie with others and to commaund that the faith of the Trinitie should be rightly preached the Sacrament of Baptisme by no meanes doubled The blessed Bishops saith he with Valens Gratian haue made demonstration that the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost be a Trinitie coessentiall nostra potentia eandem praedicari mandauit and our power hath commaunded the same truth to be preached And againe The bishop which shall reiterate holy Baptisme we count vnworthy of his place For wee condemne their error which treading the Apostolike preceptes vnder their feete doe not clense but rather defile those with a second washing that are once alreadie baptized Zeno seeking to reconcile the Bishops Clerkes Monkes and people of Egypt and Alexandria to the Nicene faith beginneth with these wordes For so much as wee know that onely faith which is right and syncere to bee the grounde staie strength and inuincible defence of our Empire wee haue alwaies emploied our desires endeuours and lawes that thereby wee might multiplie the holie Catholike and Apostolike church the perpetuall and vndefiled mother of our Scepter And Iustinus nephewe to Iustinian writing a publike Edict to all Christians concerning manie pointes of true Religion maketh his conclusion with these wordes Omnes eos qui contraria hijsce vel sentiunt vel sensuri sunt Anathemate damnamus alienos à sancta Dei Catholica Apostolica Ecclesia iudicamus Wee condemne them all as accursed that presentlie doe or hereafter shall thinke contrarie to these things we adiudge to haue no part in the holy Catholike and Apostolike Church of God This care to prouide and power to commaund for matters of religioÌ„ Princes as well in this realme as els where continued a thousand yeres after Christ. The Bishop of Rome himselfe 850 yeres after Christ promiseth all kind of obedience to the chapters and lawes ecclesiasticall of Lotharius his ancestours In Greece the Emperours lost not their authoritie to call Councels and establish trueth till they lost Empire and all More than thirtine hundred yeres after Christ Nicephorus highly commendeth a Greeke Emperour for his labors and endeuours in the Church affaires You haue saith he to the Prince restored the Catholike and vniuersal Church to her auncient state that was troubled with nouelties impure and vnsound doctrine you haue banished from her you haue purged the temple from heretikes that were corrupters and deprauers of heauenly doctrine not so much with a three corded whippe as with the worde of trueth You haue established the faith and made constitutions for it you haue walled about true godlines with mightie defences you haue repaired that which was ruinous Priestly vnction decaied you haue made purer than gold and by lawes and letters taught them sobriety of life and contempt of mony Wherefore their order is now sacred in the common wealth which in former times was degenerated infected with corruption of discipline and manners Yea when you sawe our true religion brought in danger by false and absurd doctrines you did most zealously and most wisely vndertake the defence of it And knowing very well that piety of it selfe the diligent care of Gods causes are the surest proppes of an Empire you tooke a diuine and passing wise course For by medling with these matters of religion you wanne great thankes of God and gaue him iust cause to bee fauorable to your praiers to direct al your doings and confirme and setle the Empire in your hands Canutus a King of this land not full 32 yeres before the conquest apparently proueth that Princes kept their authoritie to commaund for matters of religion more than a
father and his Cardinals were eighteene yeres prouoking working the Princes States adherent to them to spill christian blood to make hauocke of al places persons that were not â—â—â—dient to the Bishop of Rome yet you count it some great absurditie for vs to reiect this Councell as not generall Phi. You acknowledge no subiection to Councels or Tribunals abroad all other Bishops Patriarkes Apostles Christ all because they were be forrainers not hauing iurisdiction or sufficieÌ„t authoritie to define against English Sectaries or Errors And this when a Realme or Prince is in error taketh away all meanes of reducing theÌ„ to the truth againe Theo. To Christ his Apostles we acknowledge more subiection than you doe We honor adore him as the true son of God equall with his father in authority maiesty We make him no forrainer to this Realm as you do but professe him to be the only master redeemer ruler of his church as wel in this as in all other Nations To whom Princes Preachers are but seruaÌ„ts the preachers to propose the Princes to execute his will commandements whom all that wil be saued must beleeue obey aboue against all Councels Tribunals be they regall or papall if they dissent from his word The preachings writings of the Apostles we receiue with greater reuereÌ„ce exacter obedience than you do We giue no man leaue to dispence against theÌ„ which your law witnesseth of the Pope Papa coÌ„tra ApostoluÌ„ dispensat The Pope dispeÌ„seth against the Apostle We neuer said as Pigghius saith The Apostles wrote certaine things not that their writinges should bee aboue our faith and religion but rather vnder Wee confesse The Apostles were men allowed of God to whom the Gospel should be committed therefore we receiue the word from theÌ„ not as the word of man but as it is in deed the word of God assuring our selues it is the power of God to saue all that beleeue detesting your erronious and heynous presumptions that take vppon you to adde alter diminish and dispence with that which the spirite of Christ spake as well by the pennes as mouthes of the Apostles To Councels such as the Church of Christ was wont by the helpe of her religious Princes to call we owe communion and brotherly concord so long as they make no breach in faith nor in christian charitie subiection and seruitude wee owe them none the blessed Angels professe themselues to bee fellowe seruantes with the Sainctes on earth what are you then that with your Tribunals and iurisdictions woulde bee Lordes and Rulers ouer Christes inheritance Peter saith Cyprian whom the Lord made first choice of on whom he built his church when Paul after stroue with him for Circumcision did not take vpon him nor chalenge any thing insolentlie or arrogantly nor aduaunce him-selfe as Primate and one to whom the nouices and puinees shoulde bee subiect And as it were in open defiance of your Tribunals and iurisdictions which Stephen the Bishoppe of Rome began then to exercise he directeth the Bishops assembled in a Councell at Carthage on this wise It resteth that of this matter wee speake euerie one of vs what we thinke iudging no man nor remouing any man from the communion though he be not of our minde For none of vs maketh himselfe Bishop of Bishops or by terrour like a tyrant forceth his collegues to yeeld him obedience whether they will or no considering euerie Bishop by reason of his Episcopal power and freedom hath the rule of his owne iudgement as one that can not bee iudged of an other nor hee him-selfe iudge an other but let vs al expect the tribunal or iudgement of our Lord Iesus Christ which only solely hath power to set vs in the gouernment of his Church and to iudge of our actes And because you be so earnest with vs for subiection to Tribunals abroade to bee plaine with you it is boyes plaie before you name them or proue that wee owe them any subiection to skore it vppe as an absurditie that wee acknowledge none vnto them and yet least you shoulde thinke vs the first that refused Tribunals abroade you shall see that ancient and worthy fathers haue done the like before vs. What Tribunals abroade did Cyprian and the 80. Bishoppes at Carthage with him acknowledge when hee saide as you hearde Christus vnus solus habet potestatem de actu nostro iudicandi Christ only and none else hath authoritie to iudge of our act And agaiâ—e Episcopus ab alâ—o iudicari non potest cum non ipse nec alterum iudicare A Bishop may not be iudged of others nor iudge others Expectemus vniuersi iudicium Christi Let vs all both abroad and at home expect the iudgement of Christ. What Tribunals abroade did Polycrates and the Bishops of Asia with him acknowledge when hee replied to the Bishoppe of Rome threatning to excommunicate him and the rest Non turbaborijs quae terrendi gratia obijciuntur I passe not for these threats that are offered to terrifie me What Tribunals abroad did S. Aug. the 216. African Bishops acknowledge when they decreed that none Appealing ouer the Sea to Tribunals abroad should be receiued to the communion within Africa And when they repelled the Bishop of Rome laboring to place his Legates a latere within their Prouince willed him nâ—t to bring Fumosum seculi Typhum That smoky pride of the world into the Church of Christ What Tribunals abroad did the Bishop of the Britons acknowledge when they proued to August the Moncke that was sent from Rome that they ought him no subiection Nay what Tribunal abroad did Greg. the Bishop of Rome chalenge when he wrote thus to Eulogius Bishop of Alexandria Vestra beatitudo mihi loquitur diceÌ„s sicut iussistis quod verbuÌ„ iussionis peto à meo auditu remouete quia scio quis sum qui estis Loco enim mihi fratres estis moribus patres NoÌ„ ergo iussi sed quae vtilia visa sunt iudicare curauâ— Your blessednes in your letters saith to me as you coÌ„maÌ„ded which word of coÌ„maÌ„ding I beseech you remoue froÌ„ mine eares because I know who I am what you are In calling you are brethreÌ„ to me in behauior fathers I did not theÌ„ coÌ„mand you but aduertise you what semed best to me The same Greg. teacheth you what it is for any one man to require vniuersall subiection of the whole church as your holie father now doth If Paul saith he would not haue the meÌ„bers of the Lords body to be subiect to any heads but to Christ no not to the Apostles themselues what wilt thou answere to Christ the head of the vniuersall church in the last daie of iudgement which goest about to haue all his members in subiection to thee by the
the Church of her inheritaunce when your selues euery day if that speach bee not tolerable commit blasphemies innumerable If other examples doe not stay your wisedomes remember your vsual stile for the Pope is summus Pontifex Supreme Bishoppe summus and supremus being all one I meane not in sense onely but in speach also For they both bee superlatiues from the same comparatiue Superior and summus is nothing else but the very contraction of the woorde Supremus So that if Supreme Bishoppe with you doe not spoile Christ of his Priesthoode how can supreme Gouernour with vs lift him out of his kingdome he clayming expressely to bee chiefe Pastor and Bishoppe of our soules and renouncing in woordes and refusing in deedes to bee an earthly Prince and iudge in temporall thinges as the Scripture plainely recordeth And therefore first confesse and correct your owne ouersight if not error which taketh from Christ or at lest diuideth with him his speciall and peculiar title and then if we proue not that all men haue written and spoken in like sort as wee doe you shall find vs readie if that be your feare to retract euery syllable that is preiudicial to the sonne of GOD and to giue him as much honour as you can wish or wee deuise which when it is most is no more than hee well deserueth Phi. You content vs somewhat if you stand to this which you say that you giue Princes no Power against the faith nor Canons of the Church and that the gouernment which you acknowledge in them for spirituall things and causes is nothing els but their temporall and externall might and meanes to see the Rules and precepts of Christ and his Church receiued and settled in their Realmes and to punish the neglecters and resisters of the same And yet your termes were so large that your owne friendes reproued them as well as wee Theo. Neither misplace nor mistake my wordes Against the precepts of Christ or Canons of his Church wee giue Princes no power most true we doe not mary by the Canons of the Church we do not meane the Popes Bulles or decrees nor the partiall iudgements of such Councels as he hath assembled for his faction and framed to his fansies These bee late violent and wicked intrusions but the auncient and Godly Rules of Christes Church generally receaued of all good Christians and generally confirmed of all good Princes these be the Canons which Princes in dutie should not in equitie may not subuert if they wil be taken for faithful defenders and not â—or wilfull oppressours of Christes church For if in temporal things Princes may not dissolue the Lawes of their Progenitors nor frustrate the liberties of their people against reason and Iustice how much lesse ought they to violate the true Canons and euacuate the good orders and discipline of the Church concluded by so many Godly Fathers confirmed by so many worthie Princes and setled in so many sundrie places and ages Constantine saith Eusebius confirmed with his authoritie the Canons which the Bishops had agreed on in their Synodes lest the Rulers of his Prouinces should infringe them We decree saith Iustinian that the sacred ecclesiastical Canons concluded and confirmed in the fower first generall Councels haue equal force with our lawes For we keepe the Canons of the foresaid Councels as lawes And again It hath beene rightly said of Emperours before vs and of vs also that the sacred Canons ought to take place as lawes Athanasius obiected this to Constantius as a note of a tyrant that he did abrogate the Canons with violence and ordered all things against the Canons And Gregorie when it was written to him that the Emperour commanded an other to be chosen for the Bishop of Iustiniana within his prouince by reason of the sicknes which the said Bishop was troubled with in his head made this answere The Canons do no where commaund that a Bishop should loose his office for sicknesse And therefore it is against iustice if a Bishop fall sick that he should be depriued of his honor If the said reuereÌ„d Bishop for his own ease do require to be discharged of his Episcopal function when hee deliuereth that petition in writing it must bee graunted Otherwise I dare not doe it for feare of almightie God Whatseeuer the Emperour commaundeth is in his owne power Let him prouide as hee seeth cause onely let him not cause mee to bee partaker of this mans deposition That which hee doeth if it bee according to the Canons wee follow it if it be against the Canons we beare it with silence so long as wee may without sinne on our parts Phi. Where haue you this place Theo. Why doe you aske Phi. Because wee find the former words in our Decrees but not the later Theo. In deede you say trueth they were not for your diet they shewe that the Bishoppe of Rome was obedient to the Emperour in ecclesiasticall causes so long as the Prince did ioyne with the Canons and that hee was silent when the Prince went besides the Canons so farre foorth as hee might without sinne in himselfe And therefore the Collector of your Decrees left out the last wordes and changed the first by putting the Popes person in steede of the Princes For where Gregorie begynneth Scripsit mihi tua dilectio pijssimum Dominum nostrum reuerentissimo fratri meo Ioanni primae Iustinianae Episcopo pro egritudine capitis quam patitur praecipere succedi Your Louingnes wrate vnto mee that our most religious Lord commaundeth an other to be chosen in the place of our reuerende brother Iohn Bishoppe of Iustmiana because of the griefe of his head Your Lawe reporteth it thus Scripsit mihitua dilectio me reuerentissimo fratri Do. c. Your Louingnes wrate vnto me that I commaunded an other to bee chosen c. which is a detestable and inexcusable forgerie but my purpose is to shew that good Princes obserued and esteemed the Canons of the Church no lesse than their owne Lawes and tooke them for paternes to guyde their Edicts in causes ecclesiasticall as sayth Iustinian Our Lawes doe not disdaine to follow the sacred Rules or Canons Phi. It abateth the supreme power of Princes very much to bee bound to the Canons of the Church Theo. No more than it doeth in ciuill regiment to bee tied to the groundes of nature reason and equitie from which no wise nor sober Prince woulde wish to bee loosed And Princes bee Supreme not in respect that all thinges bee subiect to their willes which were plaine tyrannie not Christian authoritie but that all Persons within their Realmes are bounde to obey their Lawes or abide their paynes and themselues not depriueable by the Pope but reserued to the righteous and terrible iudge if they abuse their swordes to the maintaining of error and oppressing of innocents Phi. Yet this is cleare that the sworde which Princes beare is temporall
him as his robes and his throne Phi. Did not S. Ambrose send him woorde that he should goe out of the Chauncell and stande among the people Theo. After his reconciliation when they approched to the diuine mysteries the Prince came within the barres which were prouided for those that shoulde helpe the Bishop to minister the Lordes supper as his manner was at Constantinople to whom the Bishoppe sent word being himselfe at the Lords table that those Rayles were prepared for the Priestes and that it was not lawfull for any man else to come within them And so Sozomene confesseth The Emperours sayth he were wont for an excellencie aboue the people to sit in the same place where the Priestes were Ambrose seeing this to fauour of flatterie assigned the Emperours a place in the Church next to the Chauncel before the people but after the Priestes This order Theodosius and other Princes that succeeded him greatly praysed and we see it obserued from that day to this So that Saint Ambrose neither ment to take their seates from them within the Church nor their robes without the Church but thought it reason that the Princes precepts should not trouble the Priestes in the seruice of God And therefore take flatterie and heresie to your selues againe we like and commend both the pietie of the Prince and the grauitie of the Bishop but your malitious deprauing of the storie and mischieuous abusing the zeale of S. Ambrose to warrant rebellions insurrections against Princes whiles they repent them of their sinnes wee doe not like the more honourable his act that sought to saue the Princes soule with the hazard of his owne life the more detestable is yours that fish for Princes Crownes vnder a shewe of penance as if earthly kings might not bewaile their sinnes and keepe their seales which you are loth they should If Anastasius had beene excommunicated by Simachus it hurteth not vs deposed he was not by him or any other and with an hereticall Prince neither Simachus neither any other christian Bishop might communicate yet euen thē was the East Church subiect to a Prince that fauoured Eutiches heresie and Italie to a follower of Arius and the contention which of the two shoulde bee Bishop of Rome Symmachus or Laurentius was referred to the iudgement of king Theodoricus an Arian heretike but that Symmachus did excōmunicate Anastasius I find it in no authentike writer Euagrius sayth that some condēned Anastasius as an aduersarie to the Councell of Chalcedon and reckened him out of the number of christian Emperours Yea they of Hierusalem accursed or excommunicated him Nicephorus rehearsing the wordes of Euagrius addeth that they of Hierusalem excommunicated Anastasius yet liuing which was more than Euagrius said Sabellicus and Platina your very friends say this Emperour was excommunicated by Gelasius the second bishop before Symmachus Martinus Polonus and Iohannes Marius affirme it was done by Anastasius the next before Symmachus you say Symmachus did it which of these reports is the truest can you tell A witnes is not trusted if he be taken with two tales we finde you in three and that touching matters done a thousand yeeres before your time the wiser elder Historiographers whence you should fetch it as Regino Sigibertus Vrspergensis Frisingensis Marianus Scotus and others affirming no such thing the later and most partiall faintly comming in with sunt qui scribunt vt tradunt quidam there bee that write so as some say shal we beleeue you Your Canon Lawe the very hart and life of al your recordes at Rome hath a very miraculous letter of the Pope Gelasius to this Anastasius where Gelasius telleth the Emperour howe Zacharie Bishoppe of Rome deposed the king of Fraunce and put Pipine the father of Charles the Emperour in his place and discharged all the Frenchmen from their othe and allegeance Whereas Zacharie was Bishoppe of Rome two hundreth and fourtie yeeres after Gelasius was dead and Charles beganne not his Empire till eight hundreth after Christ Gelasius dying within fiue hundreth Thus Hilderike king of Fraunce was deposed two hundreth yeres before hee was borne and Gelasius wrate newes of Charles three hundreth yeeres after Gelasius was deade and buried By such deuises you may soone depose Princes if not by mutinies yet at least by prophesies Phi. The gloze warneth you that some take these to bee Gratians and not Gelasius words Theo. But Gratian himselfe warned you before that they were Gelasius wordes to Anastasius the Emperour for so he prefixeth the title Vnde Gelasius Papa Anastasio Imperatori In which sense Pope Gelasius wrate thus to the Emperour Anastasius Then followe these woordes summed in red letters before as his manner of alleaging is throughout the whole bodie of your Canon Law And therfore vnlesse you will say the collectour of your Decrees Decretals wrate the title waking and the text sleeping you can not choose but see what morter hath been vsed at Rome to plaister your holy fathers rotten right to depose Princes Lotharius and Michael Emperours you say were excōmunicated by Nicholas the first If we should aske you how you prooue it perhaps it woulde trouble you more than you think Late writers in this case we trust not auncient wee finde none that report any such thing of Michael Platina saith that Nicholas the first entertained the Embassadours of this Michael with great curtesie sent them home with presents to their master Zonaras a Grecian confesseth that the legates of the Bishop of Rome in a Councell assembled at Constantinople deposed Ignatius and confirmed Photius And though you haue shuffled into your Decretals a flaunting Epistle vnder the name of Nicholas the first to this Michael to frustrate the iudgement of those corrupt Legates and to reproue the Prince for his ouer-lustie letters yet knowe you that no good storie maketh mention of any such strife betweene them and that in the letter it selfe notwithstanding it be a perfect image of your shyfting and forging to make the Popes pride somewhat auncient yet is there no word nor signe of excommunication denounced or threatned against Michael Lotharius you grossely mistake it was not the Emperour whom Nicholas the first offered to excommunicate but a king of Lorraine named Lotharius and brother to Lodouike the second that held the Empire both during the life of Nicholas the first after his death Neither did the Pope excommunicate that king as you auouche but hee willed the king to beware lest he fell within the compas of that sentence which was giuen against his harlot and lest him selfe were forced to publish that his wilfulnes to the Church and so the King should become as an Ethnike and Publicane to all Christians And that the deed was not done you may perceiue by Pope Adrians behauiour speach to Lotharius and the rest when he ministred the Lords Supper
slaughter of the people Theo. The Leuites were not all Priestes though they were to attend on the Arke and the rest of the seruice of God Aaron and his sonnes had the Priesthood and not the whole Tribe of Leui. The Scripture it selfe will giue you that distinction The Leuites were appointed vnto all the seruice of the Tabâ—rnacle of the house of God But Aaron and his sonnes burnt incense vpon the Altar of burnt offering And what shoulde let the Leuites to beare armes at Moses commaundement who afterward in defence of king Ioash at his coronation in the Temple did compasse him Euerie man with his weapon in his hand Against the Magistrate they did not bend their swords as you do but rather for obedience to the Magistrate and therefore their example wil not warrant your displaying of banners against your Prince Phi. Was Moses a Magistrate Theo. Howe thinke you was he not Phi. The Scripture sayeth hee was a Priest and a Prophet not a Prince Theo. Those bee no reasons to exclude him from bearing the sword Melchizedec was a Priest of the most high God and king of Salem Ely was a Priest and Samuel a Prophet and yet both were Soueraigne Rulers ouer Israell Moses might annoynt Aaron at the first erection of the Priesthoode and deliuer the lawe of God vnto the people and yet keepe the Ciuil regiment Phi. Why then doth Dauid number Moses and Aaron among the Priests of God Theo. The worde which Dauid vseth doeth signifie those that be chiefe in any seruice as well as Priestes as in the second of Samuel the eight chapter where it is saide that Zadoc and Abimelec the Sonnes of Phinees were the Priests it is presently added and the sonnes of Dauid câ—hanìm haìu were no Priestes but chiefe Princes or Rulers And yet the worde is the very same that was vsed before to Zadoc and Abimelec the sonnes of Aaron So in the 20. of the same booke Zadoc and Abiathar were Pristes and Ira the Iairite was cohen ledauid not a Priest to Dauid for that had beene wickednesse against the law of God to make a mere straÌ„ger that was no Leuite a priest but a chiefe Prince about Dauid And so Dauid ioyneth Moses and Aaron as the Principall seruitours about God and chiefe Rulers of the people Moses for regiment Aaron for sacrifices And did the worde exactly signifie Priestes the letter beth which goeth before it importeth either in the number of the Priests or togither with the Priests so that Moses and Aaron with the Priests called on the name of the Lorde But that Moses was a Priest after Aaron and his sonnes were annointed is a manifest vntrueth against the Scriptures God sayde to Moses Thou shalt put vppon Aaron the holie garmentes and shalt annoynt him And sanctifie him that hee may serue mee in the Priestes office Thou shalt also bring his sonnes and cloath them with garmentes And shalt annoynt them as thou diddest annoynt their Father that they may serue me in the Priests office so shall this their annoynting bee to them for an euerlasting Priest-hoode in their generations And againe Thou shalt appoynt Aaron and his sonnes to execute the Priestes office and the straunger that commeth neere shall die Which precept excluded not onelie the rest of the Tribes but euen the Leuites them-selues that were not the sonnes of Aaron from being Prestes or medling with the sacrifices that shoulde be offered vnto God To Aaron God sayde Thou and thy sonnes with thee shall beare the iniquitie or burden of the Priestes office Thy brethren of the Tribe of Leui shalt thou take to minister vnto thee but thou and thy sonnes with thee shall minister before the Tabernacle of the Testimonie They shall keepe the charge of all the Tabernacle but they shall not come neere the instrumentes of the Sanctuarie nor to the Altar least they die both they you Where you see the Priestes office so tied vnto Aaron and his sonnes that the Leuites his brethren and of his fathers familie might watch and ward about the Tabernacle and minister vnto him and his sonnes that were priests but not come neere the Altar nor any instruments of the Sanctuarie How then could Moses be a Priest after Aaron was annointed when the Priesthood was deliuered and confirmed to Aaron onely and his sonnes Phi. Moses was a Leuite Theo. Hee was Aarons brother but the Priesthood was giuen to Aaron and his sonnes Phi. He annointed Aaron and his sonnes Theo. Not by his ordinarie function as a Priest but by speciall direction from God as a Prophet For Aaron was called to that office not by Moses but by God himselfe as the Apostle testifieth though hee were annointed by Moses handes Phi. Moses might bee a Priest before Aaron was called Theo. If Moses were a Priest what needed an other to bee chosen Why shoulde Moses bee depriued of his Priesthoode hee no way displeasing nor offending God Reason you shewe both his calling and his annoynting before you chalenge the Priesthood for him Phi. Dauid sayeth hee was Theo. What Dauid sayeth wee sawe before The worde by Sainct Hieroms owne obseruation signifieth a Master or Ruler Ira Iairites erat sacerdos Dauid id est magister sicut alibi scriptum est filij autem Dauid erant sacerdotes id est magistri fratrum suorum Ira the Iairite was a Priest of Dauids that is a Ruler as it is elswhere written the sonnes of Dauid were Priestes that is Rulers of their brethren Phi. Sainct Hierom and Sainct Augustine writing vppon this Psalme of Dauid affirme that Moses was a Priest Theo. All that Sainct Hierom sayth is this that Moses had the rule of the Lawe and Aaron of the Priest-hoode and that either of them did fore-shewe the comming of Christ with a Priestlie kinde of proclamation Moses with the sounde of the lawe and Aaron with the belles of his garmentes Where S. Hierom calleth the Propheticall function of Moses to teach the people the Lawes of God a Priestly kinde of proclaiming and foreshewing that the Sonne of God should come in flesh to teach vs the will of his Father Saint Augustine vseth the worde in like sense for that sacred seruice which Moses yeelded vnto God in reporting his Lawes and preceptes to the people And therefore in the same place hee sayeth of Samuel hee was made high Priest which is expreslie against the Scriptures if you take the worde Priest for him that was annoynted to offer sacrifices vnto God For Samuel was but a Leuite and no Priest much lesse high Priest The sonnes of Samuel are reckened in the Scripture it selfe among the Leuites apart from the Priestes office and linage and the high Priesthoode was long before giuen to Phinees and his house by couenant from Gods owne mouth and in the dayes of Samuel was helde by Abiah the sonne of Abicub who was directly of the
discent of Phinees Sainct Augustine else-where debating this question of Moses and Aaron resolueth in doubtfull manner Moses and Aaron were both high Priestes or rather Moses the chiefe and Aaron vnder him or else Aaron chiefe for the pontificall attyre and Moses for a more excellent ministerie And in that sense Moses may bee called a Priest if you meane as Saint Augustine doeth an interpreter of Gods will to Aaron and others which is the right vocation of all Prophetes that were no Priestes and common to them all saue that by a more excellent prerogatiue than anie other Prophete of the olde Testament had God spake to Moses mouth to mouth and face to face as a man speaketh vnto his friend But this doth not hinder his ciuill power which was to bee chiefe iudge and soueraigne executor of iustice among thâ—m and by vertue thereof to put them to death that were offend ors against the law of God And in his steede succeeded not Eleazar or Phinees the sonnes of Aaron but Ioshua and Iudah the captaines and leaders of Israel Phi. Your collection of Samuel is not true For God sent him to do sacrifice when he annointed Dauid and therefore Samuel was a Priest Theo. My collection is grounded vpon the law of God Samuel was none of the sonnes of Aaron ergo Samuel was no Priest nor might not come neere the Altar to offer anie sacrifice in his owne person Phi. The Scripture sâ—yeth He tooke a sucking Lambe and offered it for a burnt offering vnto the Lorde Theo. You mistake the speech of the holy Ghost So Iephtah saide That thing which commeth first out of the doores of myne house to meete mee I will offer it for a burnt offering yet Iephtah was neither Priest nor Leuite So the Angell saide to Manoah If thou wilt make a burnt offering offer it to the Lorde and yet Manoah was of the tribe of Dan. Of Dauid that was no Priest the Scripture saith Then Dauid offered burnt offeringes peace offeringes before the Lorde And againe Dauid built there an Altar vnto the Lorde and offered burnt offeringes and peace offeringes and the Lorde was appeased towarde the Lande And likewise of Salomon The king went to Gibeon to sacrifice there a thowsande burnt offeringes did Salomon offer vppon that Altar Thrise a yeare did Salomon offer burnt offeringes and peace offeringes vppon the Altar which hee built to the Lorde and hee burnt incense vppon the Altar that was before the Lorde Nothing is oftener in the Scriptures than these kindes of speeches by the which no more is ment but that either they brought these things to be offered or else they caused the priests to offer them For in their own persons they coulde not sacrifice them because they were no Priests In that sense the Scripture saieth of Saul that He offered a burnt offering at Gilgall before Samuel came not that Saul offered it with his owne handes as you before did fondely imagine and sayde hee was deposed for aspiring to the spirituall function but hee commaunded the Priest to doe it who was then present in the host with the Arke of GOD as the next chapter doth witnesse in two seuerall places Phi. Then was Saul free from sinne when Samuel reproued him Theo. Samuel reproued him for distrusting and disobeying God For when God first aduanced Saul to the kingdom he charged him by the mouth of Samuel to go to Gilgal and there to staie seuen daies before he ventered to do any sacrifice til the Prophet were sent to shewe him what hee shoulde doe but he seeing his enimies gathered to fight against him on the one side and his people shrinking from him on the other side because Samuel came not beganne to suspecte that Samuel had beguiled him and therefore vppon his owne head against the commaundement of God willed the Priest to goe forwarde with his sacrifices and to consult GOD what hee shoulde doe This secrete distrust and presumption against the charge which God had giuen him was the thing that GOD tooke in so euill part and since hee woulde not submitte him-selfe to bee ruled by GOD and expect his leasure God reiected him as vnfitte to gouerne his people Neither did Samuel chalenge him for inuading the Priestes office but for not staying the time that God prefixed him before the Prophet should come Philand Wee reade in the booke of Numbers that the Captaine and all the people were commaunded to goe in and out that is to proceede in warres according to the order of Eleazarus the Priest Such were the warres of Abia other kinges of Iudah that fought most iustly and prosperouslie against the schismaticall Israelites and iustly possessed the Cities which they conquered in those warres As also Edom and Libuah reuolted from king Ioram for Religion euen because hee forsooke the God of their forefathers and coulde neuer bee recouered to the same againe Wherein also the example and zeale of the children of Israell was verie notable that they woulde haue denounced warre against the Tribe of Ruben and Gad onely for erecting as they tooke it a schismaticall altar out of the only place where our Lord appointed that sacrifice should be doone vnto his honor Theo. Yee bee tried men to interprete Scriptures The words which you applie to Eleazar the Priest stande in the text indifferent to be referred either to God or to Ieboshuah or to Eleazar and you lustilie leaue out both GOD and the Magistrate and will haue the Priest to bee the Master of the Musters And did the wordes pertaine to Eleazar no such power as you conceiue is thereby giuen to the Priest to caulme and kindle warres when hee list but onely to consult the Lord before his Arke and to reporte backe to the Captaine and leader of the people what the Lorde saide that no warres might bee vndertaken without expresse warrant from God This kinde of asking counsell at Gods mouth in their warres you should finde exemplyfied in sundrie places of the olde Testament as Iudges twentie first Samuel fourteene first Samuel twentie-three first Samuel thirtie But in this case the Priest had no farther authority than to inquire at Gods mouth and that hee did when the king commaunded him which is far from licencing subiectes to rebell against their king as you woulde haue it The warres of Abia the king of Iudah against Israell were not of Subiectes against their Soueraignes but of a lawfull Prince bearing the sworde and thinking to recouer the kingdome of Israell which Roboam his father lost from his enimies Where you iustifie the warres of Abia against Israell more bouldly than wisely GOD him-selfe prohibiting the children of Iudah and Beniamin in the dayes of Roboam his Father to fight against the children of Israell their brethren and professing the diuision of the Kingdome
this tragical intemperance of the Bishoppe of Rome I speake for the most part of them their manifest neglect of the Popes factours bulles plaine speach in their Synodes and assemblees wil testifie Which Auentinus a man of the same religion that you are thus reporteth Albertus the Popes agent in Germanie sent the Popes bulles to al the Germane Bishoppes for the publishing of Frederikes excommunication not one of them obeyeth him He commaunded the Abbats to accurse the Bishops they regarded him not He chargeth the Clergie to choose them newe Bishops and the Monkes to elect other Abbates if they continued in this contempt Euery one began to maruaile at the straungenes of this example neuer offered much lesse vrged before his time In no one place was this message quietly heard Al men stormed disdained and raged detesting the rashnes of the Popes Nuntio whose life and manners they were well acquainted with Germanie was ful of tumults men saying plainely that the Bishoppe of Rome commenced a most shamefull enterprise against right and equitie Euen so when Rauerius an other of the Popes Agents deliuered Sigefride Bishop of Rentzburge a bull from Rome against the Prince Al men derided the impudencie of the man demanded what that light and superstitious Frenchman or what the Bishoppe of Rome himselfe had to doe in Germanie without the consent of the Germane Bishoppes his collegues They were offended and displeased to see such tumults raised and discord sowed they proclaimed with open mouth that the libertie of Christians was oppressed and the flocke redeemed with the blood of Christ brought into bondage by false Pastors And when Albert woulde not cease The Bishops of Germanie not onely made light of his mandates but accursed him in euery Church Abbay as an enemie of Christian concord and a most pestilent Arch-heretike decreeing him to be worse than any Turke Iew Saracene or Tartare openly blaming the Bishoppe of Rome for attempting those thinges among Christians contrarie to right and reason contrarie to the Lawe of Nations and Doctrine of Christ which were not vsed among the most cruel Tartares In the midst of these sturres the Nobles Prelates of Germanie meeting to consult for the state of their common wealth Eberhardus the Archbishop of Saltzburge a graue and woorthie father one that sate primate of that place fourty sixe yeres and had experience of ten Bishops of Rome vnder Frederike the first Henry the sixt and nowe this Frederike hauing long tried and well marked the driftes and cunning of the Romish Prelates in the eares of the whole assemblie displaied your holie fathers armes with these wordes Our Lord and Sauiour Christ did earnestly warne vs that we shoulde take heede of false Christ and false Prophets which couered with sheepes clothing that is with the names of Christians and titles of Bishops woulde tyrannize ouer vs and illude vs and they as hee taught must be discerned by their workes to witte their auarice luxurie contention hatred emulation warres discordes and ambitious desire to raigne To whome did our heauenly king by these wordes more plainely point than to the Scribes Pharisees of Babylon Vnder the tytle of chiefe Bishoppe if wee bee not blinde wee see a most cruell wolfe in a shepheardes cloake The Bishoppes of Rome haue their waies and weapons for all sortes of Christian men By presuming circumuenting kindling warre vppon warre they are become great and nowe thy kill and slea the sheepe they dispell peace concord from the face of the earth they raise ciuill warres and domesticall seditions from the pit of hell euery day more and more they consume the strength of all men that they may ride on the neckes of all men Christ forbiddeth vs to hate our enemies chargeth vs to loue them and deserue well at their handes to keepe sayth with them and doe good for their euill But the Prelates of Rome commaund vs and that vnder a ioly countenance of pietie to violate that which is holy to abuse the sacred name of god to beguile men with to be vngratefull to those that haue delt well with vs and to requite good turnes with euill yea to fight striue deceiue betray and cousen they wil haue vs set nought by the maiestie and prouidence of GOD withstande nature and resist the supreme power that is ordained of GOD. Hildebrand was the first that eight skore and tenne yeeres agoe layde the foundation of Antichrists kingdome vnder colour of religion This wicked warre with Princes hee first began which his successours haue pursued to this day Beleeue me that haue looked in to their doings almost these fiftie yeres they will not cease till bringing the Emperour on his knees and dissoluing the honour of the Romane Empire and also oppressing the true Pastors which feede and dogges that are able to barke they quench all or kill al after this manner which you now behold The highest God tooke the shape of a seruaunt that hee might minister to his Disciples and wash their feete but those Bishoppes of Babylon will raigne all alone they can abide no equall they will not giue ouer till they haue trodden all vnder their feete and sitte in the temple of GOD aduauncing them-selues aboue all that is worshipped their thirst for riches and honour can not be satisfied Hee that is the seruaunt of seruauntes affecteth to bee the Lorde of Lordes as if hee were a God The Sacred Synodes and Councels of his brethren nay of his Soueraigne Lordes hee despiseth Hee feareth lest he shall be forced to giue accompt of those things which he daily doth against all law and order He speaketh proud things as if he were some God he laieth new plottes to establish him selfe a kingdome he chaungeth and maketh what lawes he list he sacketh spoileth deceiueth killeth being that sonne of perdition which they call Antichrist in whose forehead is written a name of blasphemie I AM A GOD I CAN NOT ERRE in the temple of God he sitteth and raigneth farre and wide I thinke you vnderstand him he speaketh so plaine Phi. He speaketh so odiously that I litle regard him Theo. Yet an archbishop and in great credit with Fredericke the first aboue 380. yeres agoe Phi. We care neither for Fredericke nor his schismatical Archbishop The. Lesse care we for the wicked and Pharisaicall attempts of your Romish Antichrist whose immoderat ambition and intollerable presumption the Kings Bishops of your owne religiâ—n haue alwayes detested and resisted and that with vehement and sharpe speache as you see by this example Phi. What strange thing is it to see some withstand him Theo. Lesse maruaile is it to see some obay him The name of the Church the power of the keyes the dumbnes of Bishops discord of Princes made many men yeeld that otherwise would not Phi. The Princes of Germanie choose an other in his place
hee did vppon conference had with the best learned that were in his age When it was knowen in Germanie what Pope Iohn had decreed Ludouike sayth Auentine consulted the best Lawyers and skilfullest diuines that were in Italie Germanie or France especially the doctors of both lawes and diuines of Bononia and Paris They all wrote back that the actes and decrees of pope Iohn against the Emperour were repugnant to Christian simplicitie and the heauenly Scriptures The men of note and such as wrote against the Pope for this inordinate presumption were Marsilius Patauinus Iohannes Gandauus Andreas Laudensis Vlricus Haugenor Luitpoldus de Babenburg Dante 's Alligerius Occam Bergomensis Michael Caesenas Phi. What Recken you these The most of them were condemned by the Church of Rome for heretiks Theo. They were condemned by the Pope for speaking truth Marsilius booke is extant intituled The defender of peace What error can you charge him with but this that hee wrote against the insufferable pride and ambition of the Pope Dants error for the which he was condemned your friendes affirme to be this for that in his booke of the Monarchie he saide The Romane Empire had no dependance of the Pope in temporall things but only of God Occam the Minorite pursued that argument so farre that he brought the Popes power and his Prelates touching their tēporal dominiō to nothing These were their errors for y◠which the Church of Rome otherwise called the Pope and his Cardinals condemned these learned and innocent men With as good reason you might haue condemned christ and his Apostles for the same causes S. Paul auoucheth the one There is no power but of God and Christ himselfe commaunded the other Kings of nations beare temporall rule You shall not doe so Phi. They held other errors Theo. Euen such an other For this was against the state and pride of Prelates and that touched their cofers and treasures which indeede were their Goddes The Poore Franciscanes beganne to dispute that it was a signe of more perfection and a neerer resemblance to the life which Christ and his Apostles ledde on earth for clergie men to renounce the world and possesse nothing of their owne rather than to nestle themselues i◠the sweetest and richest seates of christendome and t◠heape vp mammon and wealth in such abundance that they were able not only to beard Princes in their Palaces but also shoulder them in the field The ground of their opinion they tooke from your canon Law and your holy father himselfe in erecting the Rule of Frier Frauncis could confesse as much mary when the Emperour in hatred of the Popes hauftines and greedines cast some fauour to the Franciscanes the Pope to match the Prince gaue forth an edict and made it heresie to say that Christ his Apostles possessed nothing in this world which because the Friers impugned in their schooles and sermons the Pope cōdemned them and all their aiders and abetters whereof Lodouike was one for heretikes This is that other heresie for the which Micheal Cesenas Occam and other Franciscanes and Lodouike the Emperour as a Patrone of theirs were impeached which Platina thinketh was scant aduisedly doone by the Pope and his counsellers Pope Iohn saith he set foorth a Decree wherein he declared them to be rebels to the Church of Rome heretikes which affirmed that Christ and his Disciples had nothing of their owne This decree doth scant accord with the sacred Scripture which testifieth in many places that Christ and his Disciples had nothing of their owne Thus your holy father to spite the prince and to reuenge such as opened their mouthes at his sumpteousnes and furiousnes made it heresie to commend humilitie and pouertie Philand That Christ and his Disciples did possesse nothing neither in priuate nor in common this was their error and not as you report it Theo. In deede it is worth the noting howe finely your Holie Father did circumuent them For where they ment that Christ and his Apostles lefte the worlde to follow their vocation and woulde after possesse nothing superfluous neither in priuate nor common but helde themselues satisfied with apparell and foode such as the goodnesse of GOD by the almes of other or by their owne industrie not slacking their function did prouide for them the Bishope of Rome hauing alreadie gotten a good part of the Empire into his hands and daily deuising newe quarels to get more and besides oppressing al Christian Realmes with intollerable taxes and paiments for the maintaining of his warres and furnishing of his other expences which were both needeles and excessiue and knowing by this vrging of christs and his Apostles pouertie which the friers began euerie where to publish how vnlike he should appeare to S. Peter whose successour hee would seem to be peruerted the wordes and sense of the poore friers as if they had taught that the diete and raiment which Christ and his Apostles vsed had not beene their own but wrongfully taken and vniustly withheld from others that were the right owners and with this shifte made it heresie and blasphemie to say that Christ had nothing of his own where the friers were neuer so madde to defend that Christ and his Apostles had no right nor proprietie to the clothes which they ware and meates which they vsed but they rather detested the monstruous wealth and riote of Monckes and Bishops which pretending to forsake the worlde and followe Christ heaped greater riches and wallowed in oftner pleasures than any secular persons which soare when the wretched friers began to touch they were condemned and burned for heretikes These were the principal grifes against Lodouike which the Pope and the Cardinals could neuer digest I meane his resisting their pride and misliking their wealth for these causes when he offered reconciliation and satisfaction that the Christian world might haue rest from those domesticall warres and miseries the Pope would receiue none but on these conditions that the Prince shoulde confesse him selfe guiltie of al those errors and heresies that were laide to his charge that he should resigne the Empire and not resume it without the Popes leaue that he should put himselfe his Children and his goods into the Popes hands to be done withal as should please the Pope Such was the mildnesse of this Romish Sainct that his hart could not be satisfied but with the vtter destruction of the Emperour and his children which when the Princes and Bishops of Germanie perceiued they signified their generall determination to Lodouicke in these wordes Most gratious Lord and Emperour the Princes electours and other the faithfull of your Empire perusing the articles of your submission which the Pope requireth and resteth on with one consent haue decreed them to be conceiued to the subuersion and ouerthrow of the Empire so that neither you nor they by reason of the
not I trust to seek of that which euery child with vs cā say Thou shalt make thee no grauen image nor the likenes of any thing that is in heauen aboue or the earth beneath or in the waters vnder the earth Thou shalt not bow down to them nor worship them Phi. Doth this precept touch the image of Christ Theo. It toucheth any thing made with handes that is worshipped be it the image of God of Christ or of whō you wil. Phi. No Sir it toucheth the images of false Gods but not of the true God for they be Idols that are nothing Theo. Wee speake not of the thinges them-selues but of their images made with handes A false God is an idole in the heart of man and so are all thinges in heauen and earth to the which wee giue any such ghostlie or bodilie honour as God hath prohibited Sainct Paul calleth the couetous man a worshipper of idols of others hee saieth whose God is their bellie teaching vs that whatsoeuer we loue serue or obey against the commaundement of God we make it our God by preferring it before the wil and precepts of the true God in that it is our god which of it selfe is not God it is an idoll the loue seruice and honour that is so yeelded to it is idolatrie by the lawe of god For this cause the bowing our knees and holding vp our hands to an image though it bee not all the honour we ow and yeeld to god yet is it such honor as he hath prohibited to be giuen to any thing made with handes and in that respect our aduised and determined doing it against his commaundement is idolatrie For his precept is resolute Thou shalt not make thee the likenes of any thing in heauen or earth thou shalt not bow thy selfe before them nor serue them Phi. This may not bee vnderstood of the image of the true God For if the images of Princes may be reuerenced idolatry not committed much more the image of God Theo. Earthly similitudes of your making may not controule the heauenly precepts of Gods owne giuing The images of Princes may not wel be despited or abused least it be taken as a signe of a malicious hart against the Prince but bowing the knee or lifting vp the hand to the image of a Prince is flat ineuitable idolatrie Phi. The image of God deserueth more honor thā the images of mē in respect of the person that is resembled The. You heard the plaine precept of God commaunding no such honor to bee giuen to any image made with handes no not to the image of himselfe Phi. I heare you so interprete but I heare not him so command Theo. You may when you wil the scripture in that point is very cleare Moses the reporter of the law from Gods owne mouth laying foorth the ground of the second precept saith The Lord spake vnto thee out of the midst of the fire and yee heard the voice of the words but sawe no similitude Take therefore good heede to your selues for you saw no image of God in the day that the Lord spake vnto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire that ye corrupt not your selues and make you a grauen image of God or likenes of any figure whether it be of male or female or of any beast that is on earth And so along pursuing the seuerall branches of the second commandement They saw no shape of God least they should make them any image of God contrary to that which hee had commaunded them By this precept Esaie proueth that God should not be figured To whome then will you liken God or what similitude will you set vp vnto him And sharply rebuking the people for not remembring that part of the law wherein they were charged to make no likenesse nor similitude vnto God he saith Know ye nothing Haue ye not heard it hath it not beene told you from the beginning Not meaning any secret or priuate instruction of man but the open written law of God which was then deliuered them when they first became the people of God So that aswell the writer as the interpreter of the law yeeld this to be the sense of the second precept that no similitude or likenes should be made vnto God because no such image cā resemble the brightnes of his glory but only demonstrate the basenesse of our fansie Phi. We talke not of making similitudes vnto God that be vnlike him but of worshipping those that be like him Theo. And since none can be made that is like him the bowing to any is not the honoring of him but the seruing of idols which he ahhorreth Againe the first part of this precept Thou shalt not make thee any grauen image nor the likenes of any thing directly concerning the shapes and images that any man would or could make vnto God as Moses and Esaie doe witnesse the rest of the same precept Thou shalt not bowe downe to them nor serue them must needes be referred to the selfesame similitudes and figures which before were prohibited to be made Thirdly if any grauen Image of God might be worshipped why might it not be made since it cannot be worshiped vntill it be made God therefore prohibiting it to be made instructeth vs that though it were made it should not be worshiped And to that end God himselfe protesteth My glorie will I not giue to an other nor my praise to grauen Images meaning no part of the honor and seruice that is due vnto him whether it bee spirituall as feare loue faith obedience praiers and thankes or corporall as bowing the knee lifting vp the hand burning incense and such like which are Idolatries when they are done to Images as wel as the former kindes of inward and Ghostly worship Phi. Idolatries they be when they be doone to the Images of false Gods which are Idols not otherwise Theo. False Gods by nature there are none We know saith the Apostle that an Idol is nothing in the world and that there is none other God but one and he is wholy trueth But the shape or figure made with hands to resemble the true God whatsoeuer it be is an Idoll prohibited by Gods Law as I haue proued and therefore bowing the knee or holding vp the hand to it is Idolatry condemned by that precept which I last repeated Thou shalt not bow thy selfe to them nor serue them Phi. What not to the Image of the true God Theo. The Image of the true God made with hands is a false God and no likenesse of his but a lewd imagination of yours set vp to feede your eyes with the contempt of his sacred wil dishonour of his holy name and open iniurie to his diuine nature For what resemblance hath a dead and dombe stocke shapened like a man to the glorious inuisible and infinite Maiestie of the liuing
And so againe of that and such like Many thinges are not founde in the Apostles writinges nor in the Councels of those that came after them and yet because they be obserued of the vniuersall Church Non nisi ab ipsis tradita commendata creduntur they are thought to haue bin deliuered and commended by none but by them Phi. This sense is not amisse if the words would beare it but the text is Esset as we translate it Theo. The sense which you vrge is first against your selues next against S. Austen himselfe in other places and lastly which is it that you shoote at it ouerthroweth not our assertion Phi. It requireth some paines to proue all this Theo. Not so much perhappes as you thinke For will you confesse that no custome of the church must be receiued or beleeued except it be Apostolike Admit this and see whether we will not presently cast off the most part of the preceptes and customes of your Church as not descending from the Apostles and therefore not at all to bee beleeued by your owne verdict And as for Sainct Augustine if you thinke hee woulde saie that The custome of the vniuersall Church is not at all to be beleeued except it bee Apostolik reade this resolution better you wil leaue that misconstruction of his wordes Those things which we keep saith he not written but deliuered by traditioÌ„ the which the whole world obserueth must be conceiued to haue bin commended ordained vel ab ipsis Apostolis vel plenarijs concilijs quorum est in ecclesia saluberrima authoritas either by the Apostles themselues or else by general councels whose autority in the church is most wholsom The custom of the church he saith must be retained though it be not Apostolike but decreed by others of later age meanâ—r credit than the Apostles if their assemblies synods were general And againe In hijs rebus de quibus nihil certi statuit scriptura diuina mos populi Dei vel instituta Maiorum pro lege tenenda sunt In those things where the diuine scripture appointeth no certainty the custome of the people of God ordinances of forefathers must bee helde for a law If the custome of Gods people the ordinaÌ„ces of elders must be kept for a law then the custom of the church in baptizing her infants might not be reiected though it were not Apostolike so S. Austen with your esset cleane crosseth himselfe Lastly where you thinke to giue vs the foile with pressing this place we easily grant you that The custom of the church in baptizing her infantes were not to be beleeued if it were not in Apostolike tradition You haue your own reading what are you the better Phi. Ergo some points of faith are beleeued without the scriptures besides the scriptures The. Sir I deny your argument Phi. This is beleeued by tradition ergo not by scripture Theo. A tradition it may be yet written in the scriptures S. Paul calleth the Lords supper a traditioÌ„ yet it is written Ego accepi à Domino quod tradidi vobis I receiued of the Lord that which I deliuered vnto you The death and resurrection of Christ he likewise caled a tradition confirmed by the Scriptures Tradidi vobis inprimis quod accepi I deliuered vnto you first of all which I also receiued that Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures and was buried and rose the thirde daie according to the Scriptures And in plainer words to the Thessalonians Holde fast sayeth hee the traditions which you haue learned either by speeche or Epistle of ours calling those thinges that be written in his epistles his traditions Phi. But the fathers vse the word otherwise for that which is not written Theo. Sometimes they do somtimes they do not S. Cyprian sayth Whence is this tradition Whether doeth it descend from the Lordes authority and the Gospell or commeth it from the precepts and epistles of the Apostles If it be commaunded in the Gospell or contained in the Epistles or Actes of the Apostles let this holy tradition be obserued And so S. Basill Our baptisme is according to the tradition of the Lord in the name of the father the Sonne and the holy Ghost Ireneus Tertullian Hierom Augustine and others call the short rehearsal of the christian faith which is our common Creede an old Apostolik traditioÌ„ yet no part of the creede is without or besides the warrant of the Scriptures Phi. I know it may be a tradition and yet reuokeable to the Scriptures and proueable by the Scriptures but the baptisme of infantes Sainct Augustine saith hath no witnes in the scriptures Theo. Where saith he so Phi. In many places Theo. Name but one Phi. There be many things which the vniuersal Church obserueth and for that cause they be well thought to haue beene commaunded by the Apostles though they be not found written Theo. How proue you this to be one of those many Phi. Because wee finde it not written but only deliuered by tradition Theo. You say so but where doth S. Augustine say so Phi. In the wordes which we first alleaged It were not to be beleeued if it were not an Apostolike tradition If it were written it must be beleeued though it were no Tradition Theo. You deale with the fathers as you doe with the scriptures S. Austen doth not say the baptisme of infants were not to be beleeued but The custome of the Church in a matter of so great weight as the baptizing of infants were not to be trusted if the tradition were not Apostolike The church might not haue presumed to baptize infants if the Apostles had not begunne it what gaine you by that Thereby you may proue that the Apostles did it and that the Church of her selfe and her own authoritie might not doe it more you cannot proue Phi. But doth S. Austen any where say that the baptisme of Children is contained in the scriptures Theo. What if he went not so farre in wordes because the matter was not in question whiles he liued is that any ground for you to conclude that it is not allowed by the Scriptures Phi. If he keepe silence it is a shrewde signe that it is not Theo. So long as no man did impugne it there was no need he should defend it the question in his time was not whether it were lawful for infants to be baptized but whether it were needfull for theÌ„ or no. The Pelagians held it to be superfluous for yâ— infantes were void of original sinne which was their error That he mightily reproueth by manifest Scriptures and sheweth that infants as well as others bee excluded from the kingdome of God if they be not baptized Farther hee waded not as being not farther vrged and troubled enough besides with refuting other heresies and yet as occasion serued hee brought
they lay but with such additions alterations expositions as they listed And this he maketh to be the very reason of his Rule in the wordes that go next before it The conference with them in the Scriptures can doe no good but either to stirre a mans stomacke or disquiet his braine This brood of heretikes receiue not certaine Scriptures and if they receaue any they frame them to their purpose with adding and taking from them those that they receiue they receaue them not whole and if they suffer them to stand whole they marre them with their forged expositions Their adulterating of the sense hurteth the trueth as much as their mayming of the sentences Diuers presumptions holde them from acknowledging the places by which they be conuinced they rest on those which they haue falsely corrupted ambiguously wrested Thou shalt loose nothing but thy voice in striuing with them thou shalt gaine nothing but the mouing of thy choler to heare them blaspheme And shewing that the hearers get lesse by such contentions he inferreth Ergo non ad scripturas prouocandum est we must therefore not prouoke them to the scriptures nor appoint there the conflict with them where the victory is none or not sure or skant sure enough Ireneus not long before him gaue the like report of theÌ„ for they both had to do with the selfsame sorts routs of heretiks WheÌ„ they are reproued by the scriptures they find fault with the scriptures theÌ„selues as though many things were amis in them the books of no autoritie doutfully written truth could not be had out of them if a man be ignorant of Tradition And againe when we vrge them to come to that Tradition which is kept in the Churches down from the Apostles by the successions of Bishops they vse to say that they as wiser not only than the Priests but also than the Apostles haue found out the sincere trueth and that the Apostles did mingle certaine points of the law with the wordes of our Sauiour not the Apostles alone but Christ himselfe speak somtimes earthly somtimes heauenly somtimes mixely but they vndoubtedly in defiledly sincerely know the hidden mysterie The which is nothing els but most impudently to blaspheme their maker And so it commeth to passe that they acknowledge neither the Scriptures nor Tradition Such they be with whom we deale What maruell then if Tertullian gaue counsell that such heretikes should not be prouoked to the Scriptures not that the Scriptures be defectiue in matters of faith but for that the sectaries of his time denied corrupted and maimed the Scriptures and in deede no victorie can be hoped out of Scriptures where they be neither receiued nor reuerenced as scriptures And therefore Tetrullian had good cause to speake these words in respect of the persons that were thus impudent not in respect of the scriptures as if they were vnsufficieÌ„t That error of all others Tertullian was farthest from no where farther than in this very place which you quote Aliunde scilicet loqui possent de rebus fidei nisi ex literis fidei As though they could speake touching matters of faith out of any other than out of the books of faith And obiecting to theÌ„ this very point which we now striue for Sed credant sine scripturis vt credant aduersus scripturas Let heretiks saith he beleeue without Scriptures that they may beleeue against the scriptures To beleeue without scriptures is heretical as well as to beleeue against the scriptures the next step vnto it as Tertul. here placeth theÌ„ therefore defend not the 1. lest you fal to the 2. which is the ruine of all religioÌ„ Phil. S. Basill is plaine with vs if Tertul. be not Of the doctrines which are taught in the Church we haue some laid down in writing some againe we haue receaued by traditioÌ„ froÌ„ the Apostles in a mystery that is in secret Whereof either hath like force to godlines neither doth any man contradict them that is but meanly acquainted with the lawes of the church For if we goe about to reiect those customes which are not written as of no moment before we be ware we shal condemn those things which are in the Gospel necessarie to saluation yea rather we shal bring the preaching of faith to a naked name And not long after in the same booke If nothing els hath beene receiued without scriptures neither let this be receiued but if we haue receiued many secrets without writing let vs also receiue this amongst those many I thinke it Apostolike to cleaue to traditions not written Theo. The booke which you alleage hath S. Basils name to it but the later part thereof whence those patches are taken haue neither S. Basils stile learning spirite nor age which Erasmus perceiued and confessed when he translated the book After I was past halfe the work saith he without wearines the phrase seemed to declare an other writer and to sauour of an other spirite somtimes the stile swelled as vnto the loftines of a trageâ—ie somtimes it calmed euen vnto a common kind of speach Many times there appeared some vanitie in the author as it were shewing that he had learned Aristotles predicameÌ„ts Porphiries 5. predicables Besides he digressed very ofteÌ„ froÌ„ the purpose returned vnhandsomly Last of al many things seemed to be here ther added which made litle to the matter in questioÌ„ And some things such as by their face shew their father to wit the same that hath interlaced the most lerned books of Athan. coÌ„cerning the holy ghost with his babling but trifling coÌ„ceits Phi. We care not for Erasm. iudgemeÌ„t The. You must care for Erasmus reasons vnles you caÌ„ disproue theÌ„ Phi. How proue you these places to be those that Erasm. meaneth The. If Erasmus had said nothing these places betray themselues Looke to the beginning ending of your first allegation you shall see that the middle fitteth them as well as â—atemeale doeth oysters The wordes next before are these It remaineth that we speake of the syllable with whence it came what force it hath and how farre it agreeth with the Scriptures Then your forger as a man suddainly rauished vtterly forgetting what he purposed entereth a vaine discourse of threâ—skore fifteene lines cleane besides the matter not so much as once mentioning that which hee first promised and endeth in a worse maze than be beganne with a conclusion more dissident from the middle than the middle was from the preface Dictum est igitur eaÌ„dem esse vim vtriusque proloquij So then we haue shewed that both propositions haue the same sense wherof he spake not one word in all that large discourse that went before And so he solemnly proposeth one thing digresseth abruptly to an other and concludeth absurdly with a third which ouersight in any bore were not sufferable
Pastours and prophetes of the primatiue church in their publike praiers and exhortations and called it a confusion and resembled it to our babling in the church at this day which you thinke to be very disordered Phi. I see no proofe that the Pastours of the Church in the Apostles time made their publike prayers as you say by miraculous instinct of the spirite Theoph. Doe but open your eyes when you reade this chapter and you can not choose but see it Both this and the twelfth chapter treate wholy of the gifts of the spirite Where you finde that to one was giuen by the spirit the word of wisedome to an other the word of knowledge to an other fayth to an other giftes of healing by the same spirite to an other operation of wonders to an other prophesie to an other discerning of spirites to an other diuersities of toungs to an other interpretation of toungs Phi. Here is not the gift of praier numbred amongest them Theo. But in the fourteenth it is where shewing them how they should behaue themselues in the Church when the congregation was assembled he laieth this downe as a rule for them to follow I will pray with thee spirite but I will pray with the vnderstanding also I will sing with the spirite but I will sing with the vnderstanding also Else when thou blessest with the spirite how shal he that occupieth the room of the simple or common person say Amen at the giuing of thanks seeing he knoweth not what thou saiest To pray sing and blesse with the spirite in this place can bee nothing else but to be guided and led by the spirit in their praiers Psalmes thanks as they were in their doctrines interpretations exhortations which was by miracle on the suddain not by learning or study This was done in the church whē al the faithful were present to these praiers psalms thāksgiuings the people were to say Amen as the Apostle sheweth which is the ende signe and proofe of publike prayer among christians What is church seruice if this be not or what other Seruice could the Church haue besides hearing the word and offering their common supplications vnto God by the mouth of one man the rest vnderstanding what he said and confirming his praier with saying Amen Phi. The Apostle speaketh of one man supplying the place of the vulgar and you stretch it to the whole people Theo. If the praiers of the Church concerned some of the people and not all you might make that obiection with some shew but now it hath no color when S. Paul asketh How shal the simple man say Amen he meaneth not this or that man but any or euery And so the indefinite signifieth generally throughout the Scripture Blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth no sinne that is Blessed is euery man to whom the Lord imputeth no sin Cursed be the man that obserueth not all the workes of the Law to doe them that is by S. Pauls owne exposition Cursed is euery man that continueth not in all things which are written in the booke of the Lawe to doe them The whole Scripture is full of the like And therefore Chrysostome noteth Indoctum promiscuam plebem vocat monstratque non leue incommodum esse si Amen dicere non possit The vnlearned he calleth the vulgar people and declareth it to be no smale inconuenience if they cannot say Amen Phi. I see they did praie sing and blesse with the spirite and that the people said Amen but had they no speciall nor vsuall praiers reserued for the ministration of the Sacrament which might not be varied Theo. You think belike they had your Introite Grail Tract Sequēce Offertorie Secrets Postcommunion Pax and Ite missa est Phi. Sure they had some precise forme of seruice though we know it not Theo. And since you knowe it not why should you make it the anker hold of all your exposition vpon S. Paul Phi. Had they no order for their seruice Theo. What a stirre here is for that which the Apostles neuer did Had they set an order for the seruice of the Church durst any man after haue broken it Phi. S. Iames masse is yet extant Theo. And so are a number of other foolish forgeries as wel as that Phi. Do you think it forged Theo. Which of S. Iames masses do you meane Phi. There are not so many that you should aske which Theo. Two there are vnder his name the one nothing like the other yet both fathered vpō him Phi. We haue but one and that set in order of church seruice with mutual praiers and answers for Priest and People very perfectly Theo. And the other you shall find in the eight booke of Clemens Apostolike constitutions where the fourteene Apostles for so you haue increased their number as well as their constitutions take precise order what praiers answers and actions shal be vsed at the mysticall sacrifice their first prescription being this that Two Deacons shal be on both sides of the altar with tuffs of pecocks tails in their hands to driue away gnats left they light in the Chalice a graue consideration for Christs Apostles to meete together to make flappes to catch flies Phi. That I graunt is a matter of smal respect but yet not enough to refute the booke Theo. It is sufficiently refuted in that neither the Church of Christ nor your selues euer esteemed it Had this book beene Authentik it must needs haue beene taken into the canon of the Scriptures For if that which any one Apostle wrate be Canonical much more that which al the Apostles with common consent decreed and ordered Againe had the Apostles prescribed an exact fourme of diuine seruice for the Lords table what man would haue altered it or what Church refused it How would either Basill or Chrysostome haue presumed to make newe formes of Church seruice if those liturgies be theirs not rather forced on thē as this is on the first chiefe Apostles of Christ Why did the Latine Church and the Church of Rome her selfe neglect that seruice if it were Apostolike and preferre the praiers of one Scholasticus as worthier to be said ouer the deuine mysteries the maker being so obscure a man that his name is not knowen in the church of god why were the Bishops of Rome 600. yeares vpward patching piecing the masse before they brought it to any setled forme as your own fellowes confesse and yet then Rome had one forme of seruice Millan an other which they keepe at this day Fraunce a thirde Why did Gregorie when he was consulted by Augustine the monke what forme of diuine seruice he should commēd to the Saxons wil him to bind himselfe neither to Rome nor to any church els but to take from euery place that which he liked best and deliuer that vnto the English To