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A81339 A discourse of proper sacrifice, in way of answer to A.B.C. Jesuite, another anonymus of Rome: whereunto the reason of the now publication, and many observable passages relating to these times are prefixed by way of preface: by Sr. Edvvard Dering Knight and baronet. Dering, Edward, Sir, 1598-1644.; Glover, George, b. ca. 1618.; Jansson van Ceulen, Cornelius, b. 1593. 1644 (1644) Wing D1108A; Thomason E51_13; ESTC R22886 86,894 157

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Sr. EDWARD DERING 4. I presume you bring this for three words Sacrificium pretii nostri The Sacrifice of our price If S. Augustine do call the blessed Sacrament a Sacrifice you have it acknowledged before to be so multis modis many wayes and you have S. Augustine before who gives you good reason why the Sacrament is so called To confirm this you may find in the very next Chapter to this by you alledged that S. Augustine there calleth Sacramentum pretii nostri the Sacrament of our price which here he nameth the Sacrifice of our price But remember your undertaking which is not to prove Sacrifice at large which never was denied but Sacrifice properly so called and so instituted by Christ our Saviour as your self before have stated it A. B. C. 5. The chap. 13. which is a long prayer for his mother speaking to God how at her death she did not take care to have her body embalmed nor to have a choice monument nor to be buried in her own countrey Sr. EDWARD DERING 6. You have not day enough to finish your journey yet you will step out of the way to see a friend Your journeys end is at proper Sacrifice which it seems you dispair to arrive at before you be taken and therefore you make an out-leap into prayer for the dead thereby to stay me in my pursu●t Good Hippomenes I will no stay my course to take up the balls you cast yet for the present I may step so farre as to tell you that this Long prayer and speaking to God in this chapter is as all the whole thirteen books of his confessions are one entire continued speaking to God But pardon me I will not be drawn again out of my line of Sacrifice A. B. C. 7. He saith thus Non ista mandavit nobis s●d tantummodo memoriam sui ad altare tuum fieri desideravit cui nullius di●i praetermissione servierat und● sciret dispensari victimam Sanctam quâ deletum est chirographum quod erat contrarium nobis qud triumphatus est hostis She gave us not charge of these things but onely desired she might b● remembred at thy altar at which she had attended without omitting a day from whence she knew that holy victim● or Sacrifice for victima is materiall Sacrifice to be dispensed or distributed by which was cancelled the hand-writing which was against us by which the enemie was overcome Which are the very words of S. Paul Coloss. 2. speaking of Christ upon the Crosse So as here is clear mention not onely of an Altar but also of a Sacrifice offered for the dead and a sacrifice daily offered and the very same which was offered upon the Crosse for the redeeming of the world Sr. EDWARD DERING 8. The Myndians made their gates too big for their city but your postern is wider then their gates your conclusion is ever too full beyond all proportion of your premisses Some friend had need to help your conclusion after you as the Arabian shepherds do their sheeps tayls for it is too heavy for your own carriage Here you say is clear mention of an Altar Be it so If the bare mention of an Altar and Sacrifice be an argument for reall and proper Sacrifice you have the cause Here say you sacrifice is offered for the dead Quid ad Rhombum Shoot at the mark man Here is daily sacrifice Yet you are wide Here is the very same which was offered upon the Crosse for the redeeming of the world I this is to the purpose indeed But what if this be not here now I find here dispensari victimam c. that there is a dispensation or distribution of that saving Sacrifice of the Crosse which in the same sense but in other words by S. Paul is called The Communion of the body and bloud of Christ but this Communion is between Christ and his members this dispensation and distribution is to the people and what may that be to your dispensing of your sacrifice up to God in heaven and that in such a bodily sense as you must prove or else confesse your undertakings vain All that Monica required of her sonnes was Tantùm illud memineritis mei and tantummodo memoriam fieri c. A better carver then Polycletus or Pyrgoteles can fashion no more out of this stuff so long as tantùm and tantummodo are not cut away And then for a memory of Saints departed and a loving commemoration of them and their piety and virtue and a thanksgiving for them we do not quarrel nor is it to the Theam of your adventure CHAP. XIIII A. B. C. 1. ANother place maybe out of his work against the adversary of the Law and Prophets l. 1. c. 20. where speaking of the Church he saith Haec quippe ecclesia est Israel secundùm spiritum that is This Church is Israel according to the spirit from which is distinguished that Israel according to the flesh that is the Synagogue which did serve in the shadows of sacrifices by which was signified the singular sacrifice which Israel according to the spirit that is the spirituall Israel doth now offer singulare sacrificium quod nunc offert Israel secundùm spiritum And a little after again Iste immolat c. This Israel offereth to God a sacrifice of praise not according to the order of Aaron but according to the order of Melchisedec They kn●w that they have read what Melchisedec brought forth when he blessed Abraham and are now partakers of it they see such a sacrifice to be now offered to God over the whole world And here he explicateth the place of Malachy the Prophet c. 1. v. 11. of this Sacrifice and useth the same discourse also elsewhere De Civit. Dei lib. 18. cap. 19. Here then according to S. Augustine is a Sacrifice and that a singular or speciall sacrifice signified by the shadows of the sacrifices of the Old Law and this Sacrifice is now offered that is in S. Augustines time 400. years after Christ and after the Sacrifice of the Crosse was passed A Sacrifice not according to the order of Aaron that is bloudy and of beasts but according to the order of Melchisedec and of such things as he offered viz. bread and wine And now that is in the time of S. Augustines writing they see such a sacrifice offered over all the world and they are partakers thereof All which is so clear as nothing can be more clear Sr. EDWARD DERING 2. All is so clear as nothing can be more clear Your arguments please your self but satisfie no man else When will you come to the point Your self have stated the question That Christ did institute a sacrifice and that the sacrifice by Christ instituted is a proper sacrifice Let any Reader judge whether in this of S. Augustine or in any other voucher throughout your whole Treatise you have one argument or authority that comes home
may not Eusebius allude unto that of S. Paul where speaking of a a living sacrifice he telleth us it is our reasonable service {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} So that Reasonable service in S. Paul is Reasonable sacrifice in Eusebius 8. Every man doth abhorre them who are {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} men-eaters Cannibals Yet you think it no impiety to be {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} God-devourers nor any impossibility to be {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Soul-eaters Forbear forbear this carnall barbarisme of eating our Saviours body thus Capernaitically or else shew how his body and the free use and exercise of his reason and rationall faculties can be between your teeth without a sensible soul also to feel what you tear with them 9. You make too much of {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} when you construe it exercising a most high office of Preisthood {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} is no more then prospera sacra facere to perform holy things happily So {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} is to work well or to perform a fair or good work In a second sense {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} may be to sacrifice and then it signifies to sacrifice well and that is all For indeed the word is more generall then to be restrained among holy actions onely to the particular act of sacrificing it signifieth the performance of all manner of sacred service So b Herodian hath {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and c {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Therefore how I may find in this word all that sense of exercising a most high office of Preisthood as you have Englished it and where I may find that it is a most proper word signifying the exercise of Preisthood in a singular manner I pray instruct me by your next In the mean time I wish you would force Eusebius to speak no more in English then in his own language But alas something you must say and your timber is so crooked that it cannot be measured by a streight line 10. Lastly There is one word more in this voucher from Eusebius which I must not passe over Bellarmine as before alledged will assist me if I put you in mind that Altar and Sacrifice are relatives proper to proper and improper to improper Insomuch that he fixeth this d sine Altari non potest sacrificari No Altar no Sacrifice So your Canon law e Sacrificia non nisi super Altare offerantur Let not sacrifice be offered but upon an Altar Ledesma f Missa est veri proprii nominis sacrificium er●ò necessariò requirit altare super quod offeratur The Masse is a Sacrifice of a true and proper name therefore it necessarily requireth an Altar whereon to be offered So Paludanus S●t● and all of you that I have heard From hence I observe that a Table proper and a Sacrifice proper cannot relate why then did not you avoid this place of Eusebius where {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} the sacrifices of Christs table do unavoidably conclude that your authour did mean such Sacrifices as were performable at a Table which yours are not for you can never prove that Sacrifices properly so called were ever celebrated at a Table properly so called CHAP. IX A. B. C. 1. ALl which he goeth proving thus out of other places of Scripture and particularly out of Malachias the Prophet where Almighty God rejecting the sacrifices of Moses saith that from the rising to the setting of the sunne his name is great among the Gentiles and that in all places incense is offered to his name and a clean sacrifice And to shew that this prophesie is fulfilled he saith thus {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} We sacrifice therefore to God a sacrifice of praise we offer a sacrifice in which God is for so signifies {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} a most venerable a dreadfull and most holy sacrifice we sacrifice in a new manner according to the new Testament a clean sacrifice All which words do signifie a proper Sacrifice and that in the singular number and with a speciall emphasis expressed by the articles {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} more then can be in English save onely that one word of sacrifice of praise which a Protestant will detort to a metaphoricall sacrifice But I shall shew by and by out of this man and afterward out of S. Augustine that they mean by that proper Sacrifice to wit the holy Eucharist which other Fathers as well they may because by it God is more praised and honoured then by all other sacrifices in heaven and earth Sr. EDWARD DERING 2. This place of Malachy is beyond all sense so boastingly produced by most of your Writers as if alone it might confute us all when as the Fathers make perpetuall use of it to prove our Sacrifices contrary to those of the Jews and contrary to yours also to be in themselves spirituall and in the Circumstance of celebration tied to no place or places and that in qualitie they are pure and clean and that in the persons celebrating they are universall a From the rising of the sunne even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles and in every place incense shall be offered to my name and a pure offering This offering or sacrifice here meant is to be celebrated {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} in every place but yours onely where an Altar is and that prepared with many circumstances as Ledesma delivers Yours is tied to a morning exercise this free at all times and seasons as before you alledged {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} throughout all ones life 3 But to shorten as much as I can the trouble which you multiply more by weak impertinencies then by any strength of proof let Eusebius who vouched Malachy expound him He saith that Malachies {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} in every place is as much as not at Jerusalem which was then their sole place for sacrifice {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} neither definitively saith he in this or that place but yours is defined to the Altar This {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} which you call clean sacrifice and our translation pure offering is there by him affirmed to be {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} the incense of prayers and a sacrifice not by bloud {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} but by religious works and duties Again in this very place by you alledged assoon as ever he hath repeated the words out of Malachy headdeth what you have drawn out {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} c. Therefore we sacrifice to God the sacrifice of praise Thus Eusebius expoundeth Malachy
disserit ut valdè etiam jejunafutura esset responsio CHAP. XXI Catastrophe THus have you what my little leisure and lesse learning can afford wherein I might have shortned my pains and with one line have answered all for in all these six sheets of paper you never come near the proof of what you assumed Viz. That Christ Jesus did institute a sacrifice and that this sacrifice by him instituted is a sacrifice properly so named This proprietie and this institution I say you have not in any authority by you alledged once touched and are therefore farre from proof of your cause Your masse is the highest act in your Religion your sacrifice is a that point wherein consisteth the very essence of the masse wherein saith your Jesuite Caussin b The life of a Saviour is sacrificed yet for this highest point the very essence of your masse the sovereigne act of your faith devotion and Religion you have not one text throughout the whole Law of Christian Religion either convincing or pregnant nay you have not one probable deduction whereby to prove your determined errour Two places you grasp hard hold by but both in the old Testament First that of Malachy which you will take for your externall visible and proper sacrifice contrary to the plain sense of the place and contrary to the frequent exposition of the Fathers who receive it as of internall visible and improper sacrifice as Eusebius demonstr. Evang. l. 1. c 6 and l. 2 c. and l. 1. c. ult. Justin Martyr Dial. cum Tryphone Irenaeus l. 4. c. 32. Tertull cont. Marcion l. 3. c. 22. l. 4. c. 1. advers. Judeos in ●ine cap. 5. initio cap. 6. Chrysostom in Psalm 95. and advers. Judaeos Hom. 2. Hieron. in Malach. 1. 11. Augustin cont. advers. Leg. proph l. 1. c. 20. de civitate Dei l. 18. c. 35. l. 19. c. 23. contra Judeos c. 9. The other place is that of Melchisedec where he both a priest a King doth exercise both dignities As a priest he blesseth Abraham as a King he feasteth him and his army and this is the plain truth of that story so much and so impertinently by Papists drawn over to their Missall sacrifice CHAP. XXII Antistrophe 1. I Was minded to have cast anchor here and not to have whetted a disputation sharp already yet since that in matter of Religion one side is never to be blamed though it do proceed Disputationis serram reciprocando for truth must not be deserted because her adversaries bark at her I am therefore resolved to change my style and to proceed Semper ego auditor tantum nunquâmne reponam Yes the defendants buckler having warded your blows let me now take the assailants sword and be you respondent another while wherein I am well content to be concluded within three sheets of paper as you promised and did undertake You have produced three Fathers who all have answered themselves yet omitting many other I think fit to give you three for three First John Bishop of the Patriarchall sea of Constantinople for his eloquence surnamed Chrysostome The next Cyrill who held the famous Patriarchate of Alexandria whom Anastasius saluteth with the title of most clear light of the Fathers Thirdly S. Ambrose of Millan the ghostly father of S. Augustine And thus I begin with S. Chrysostome First having produced that of Malachy He clearly delivers himself what this pure offering is {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} It is not offered saith he by fume and smoke neither by bloud mark it and ransome but by the grace of the spirit And that our Christian sacrifice is not tyed to any place as yours to your altars he saith that every man sitting at his own home shall worship God And for the manner he telleth you that our Saviour Christ did bring in {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} a more sublime and spirituall kind of worship But of a bodily sacrifice no word Secondly Chrysostome in another place doth number up tenne severall sorts of sacrifices in the Christian Church yet as if he were ignorant of all proper externall and visible sacrifice they are all of them metaphoricall and spirituall The place is full and copious I must contract it The first is imitation of Christ or charity 2. Martyrdome 3. Prayer 4. Psalmes or Hymnes 5. Righteousnesse 6. Almes 7. Praise 8. compunction or contrition of heart 9. Humility 10. Preaching Is it not pity that you or some body for you was not at this ancient Fathers elbow to jog him and to put him in mind of your Popish sacrifice But alas your present Romish faith or rather folly was then unborn Thirdly speaking of Christ he saith a {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} He is both sacrifice and preist as Epiphanius before alledged whence I inferre that if the body of Christ be really present in your sacrifice by conversion of the substance of bread into the substance of his body then also since relatives do alway stand and fall together and that Chrysostome in that place saith that he is offered {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} by himself it must follow that your priest also as well as your sacrifice is Christ really and properly by the like conversion or transubstantiation of persons For Chrysostome and other Fathers do affirm that Christ is both our sacrifice and our priest and in all relatives if you will take one of them properly you must take the other properly also You may believe Cardinall Bellarmine cited before in my sixth Aphorisme cap. 6. Fourthly in the same Homily we do not saith he perform another but the same sacrifice whereupon as if he had been adventurous in this expression which happily might incurre a misconstruction the immediate words following do seem to retrench that latitude of sense thus {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} or rather saith he we do perform a remembrance of a sacrifice Fifthly upon these words in S. John Except ye eat the flesh of the sonne of man and drink his bloud ye have no life in you and vers. 63. It is the spirit that quickneth the flesh profiteth nothing {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} All these things are carnall and which ought to be understood mystically and spiritually for saith he if any man take them {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} fleshly he will gain nothing by them But you take say you the very flesh of Christ and look to gain thereby Therefore S. Chrysostome and you are of two religions Sixthly in the Liturgie ascribed to S. Chrysostome which on your side is called S. Chrysostomes masse after the consecration there is a prayer {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Send down thy holy Spirit upon us and upon these gifts here placed before