Selected quad for the lemma: land_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
land_n	john_n	king_n	time_n	3,074	5	3.4915	3	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A26165	An answer to Mr. Molyneux his Case of Ireland's being bound by acts of Parliament in England, stated, and his dangerous notion of Ireland's being under no subordination to the parliamentary authority of England refuted, by reasoning from his own arguments and authorities.	Cary, John, d. 1720?, attributed name.; Atwood, William, d. 1705?, attributed name.	1698 (1698)	Wing A4167; ESTC R9464	73,026	218

that no Grant ever did or could make Ireland an Absolute Distinct Separate Kingdom and wholly Independent of England or invest it with such a supream Legislature as is inherent in the Head of the Government only which with respect to the Body of the English Empire can never reside any where else than in the King by and with the Advice and Cons●nt of the Lords and Commons of England in Parliament assembled Fifthly That the Presidents and Opinions quoted by Mr. Molyneux do not by any means assist his Argument but do most of them support mine against him And Sixthly That his Reasons and Arguments offered on one side and t'other are as little to his purpose but that the English Settlements in Ireland always were and ever must be properly accounted as a Colony of England and hath ever been by her protected and supported as such By these Principles then and no other but such as these can the English be justify'd in their Conduct towards the Irish whereas if they had been an absolute distinct independent People the former and latter Disturbances they have given us could not have been Rebellions but were just Attempts to vindicate their Rights against a People that had without Reason violated them their Lands had not been legally Forfeited but forcibly taken from them against all Iustice and Reason and the Spilling of so much of their Blood must lye heavy upon those that provok'd them to take up Arms in Defence of their just Liberties and Properties Is it not much more for your Interest then to put this matter on the right bottom upon which our Actings towards them were always grounded by considering the Irish as a People that had been subdu'd and brought into Subjection to the English Government and were united to it in the Nature of a Province of its Empire and to esteem the English that have been settled there as a Colony of England which we were oblig'd to protect and defend against any Insults and Violences offered them by the Natives For this must justly subject them to the Forfeitures and Penalties due to Rebels vindicate us in the Severities we have exercis'd upon them support you in the possession of the Estates which were taken from them and return the the Guilt of all the Blood that hath been shed in the Irish Wars upon their own Heads as being the Aggressors These things are so Obvious that I believe there are many of you that can have no good Opinion of Mr. Molyneux's Book yet I am told that there are others and some of good Rank among you that are very fond of it does indeed with respect to you carry the face of a Popular Argument and is artfully written and he that can take the Latitude of advancing his own Imaginations and mistaken Conjectures with the Confidence of Realities and Certainties suggest Falsities with the utmost Assurance and omit Material Truths may impose much upon an unwary Reader especially if be thinks what 's offer'd is for his Interest Quod volumus facile credimus But any thoughtful Man that will give himself leave to Consider it impartially will find it to be one of the weakest and most mistaken Books that ever was written with such a flourish of Language and shew of Learning and Integrity The Story of King John's being made an absolute Independent King is the main Prop on which he lays the greatest stress of his Reasoning aud yet it proves but a meer Imagination The Writers indeed of these Times do say he was made King of Ireland but it looks but like a Complement to him for the Grant it self shews plainly that 't was but feudatory Donation and that 't was never intended to make him an Independent King because he was limited to use no higher Stile than that of Lord of Ireland Mr. Molyneux also deals very unfairly in many other particulars and it appears that he had more regard to the point he contests than to discover the genuine Truth of the matter for he hath not only stretch'd in favour of his Argument beyond what any Authorities can warrant but he has also conceal'd divers obvious Instances that make against him of which I shall observe to you some Particulars which have occur'd to me since I had gone through with my Answer I have accidentally met with Sir Richard Bolton's Statutes which he quotes wherein I Observe that there are several Acts that declare in most express Words that the Kingdom of Ireland is appending united knit and a Member rightfully belonging to the Imperial Crown of England And yet Mr. Molyneux observes this to us with such a Diminution as represents it but as it were united and which he conceives effects no more than that Ireland shall not be alien●d or separated from the King of England c. but I cannot imagine that he is so ignorant of our Constitution as not to know that we can have no Notion of uniting or annexing to the Imperial Crown of England as appropriated to the King's Person distinct from the Kingdom which if it can be sence any where else is yet perfect Nonsence in England But I have met with one Prevarication so notorious that I must not omit shewing it Mr. Molynex in page 41. hath these words For the Dominion and Regality of Ireland was wholly and separately vested in King Iohn being absolutely granted unto him without any Reservation And he being created King in the Parliament at Oxford under the Style and Title of Lord of Ireland enjoy'd all manner of Kingly Jurisdiction Preheminence and Authority Royal belonging to the Imperial State and Majesty of a King as are the express words of the Irish Statute 33 H. 8. cap. 1. I must confess that I believ'd that this Statute had been as express in the matter as he delivers it but 't is so far from it that there is no mention made of King John or his Grant in it The words of the Act are Forasmuch as the King our most gracious Sovereign Lord and his Grace's most noble Progenitors Kings of England have been Lords of this Land of Ireland having all manner of Kingly Jurisdiction Power Preheminencies and Authority Royal belonging or appertaining to the Royal Estate and Majesty of a King by the Names of Lord of Ireland We deny not that King Henry the Eighth's Progenitors the Kings of England had this Royal Sovereign Authority over Ireland but his Insinuation that John had it before he was King of England is plainly false and not warrantable by this Statute Again he mightily imposes upon the World in ●sser●ing That before the Year 1641. there was no Statute made in England introductory of a New Law c. but those which he had before-mentioned And though while I am dealing with Mr. Molyneux I confine my self to mention no Authorities but his own yet I will here presume for a proof of his Ignorance or Disingenuity to name some other old Acts binding Ireland which have been

they ow'd to their Lawful King there was no Act of their Parliament to declare King Iames abdicated and the Throne vacant neither indeed was there any pretence for it because he came and was actually present among them and in the full Exercise of his de facto Kingly Power as to them But as I said before the People of England having in their Convention which at that time was the Representative of the Nation conferr'd the Crown of England and Ireland and all other Territories and Dominions belonging to the English Empire upon King William and Queen Mary the Kingdom of Ireland as a Member of the English Body was as much bound to submit to that Revolution as New-England or any of the rest of our Colonies and therefore the Opposition made by the Irish against it was a perfect Rebellion and render'd them liable to all the Pains and Penalties which the Municipal Laws of the Kingdom could inflict upon Rebels This then justly forfeited their Estates to the King as he is the Head but not as in any separate Capacity from the Kingdom of England We know however what Authority the King hath to dispose of these Estates to such as may have deserv'd well and if the Parliament of England shall acquiesce therein that 's no Argument that therefore they have no Authority to intermeddle in that Matter and their former practice as he confesses hath shewn the contrary He owns that In a War the Estates of the Unjust Opposers should go to repair the Damage that is done but theirs do not resemble the Common Case of Wars between two Forreign Enemies but are rather Rebellions or Intestine Commotions And so we say But he continues If the Protestants of Ireland by the Assistance of their Brethren of England and their Purse do prove Victorious A fine Turn indeed the Matter of Fact is that the Army of England prov'd Victorious and that without any thing that might reasonable be call'd Assistance from their Brethren as he though somewhat assumingly in this case calls themselves the Protestants of Ireland and yet forsooth the Victory must be theirs No Man of Modesty as this Gentleman would bespeak himself could dare to put upon the World at this rate Well but he tells us The People of England ought to be fully repaid but then the manner of their Payment and in what way it shall be levyed ought to be left to the People of Ireland in Parliament Assembled He owns the Debt and that we ought to be paid but how and which way and when ought to be left to them a pretty New-fashion'd Priviledge this Gentleman is inventing for his Country provided they own the Debt the Creditor must be contented without any Security without any Terms and consequently without any Interest how long soever he may be kept out of his Money he ought to leave all that to the Good Will and Pleasure of his Honest Debtor but I believe Mr. Molyneux would be loth to pass for such a Fool in his own way of Dealing in the World and sure he must measure us by an Irish Understanding if he thinks this sort of Reasoning will go down with us He goes on And so it was after the Rebellion of Forty One that 's a Mistake though it deserves a harder Word for he tells us The Adventurers had several Acts of Parliament made in England for their reimbursing by disposing to them the Rebels Lands so that it was not then left at the Discretion of the People of Ireland But after all it was thought reasonable that the Parliament of Ireland should do this in their own way and therefore the Acts of Settlement and Explanation made all the former English Acts of no force or at least did very much alter them in many particulars Here'tis plain that Acts of Parliament were made in England for disposing the forfeited Estates of Ireland which were be liev'd to be of Validity and a sufficient Security to the Adventurers at the time when they were made otherwise People would not have advanc'd their Money upon them and though I am no Lawyer and don't think it concerns me to look after those Acts yet from the Reason of the thing I cann't believe that those Persons that advanc'd this Money could afterwards be legally depriv'd of the Interests granted them by those English Acts by any after Authority of an Irish Parliament If any were I would advise them yet to s●e to an English Parliament for Relief 'T is true there had happen'd a Revolution and perhaps some People that had those Lands might be lookt upon as under Delinquencies to the Government that then came to be uppermost and we know that some of the Irish Papists were very strangely restor'd to their Estates and the Possessors put out yet if some Injustice was done at such a time when many things were carried by Extreams nothing will prove an invalidating of those English Statutes less than either a total Repeal of them and that he seems not to stand upon here though he suggested it in another place for he only says they were made of no force or at least were very much alter'd in many particulars which is a certain Sign they were not repeal'd Or to shew that they were so altered as to take away all the Lands that were possess'd by any of those Adventurers or their Descendents by Virtue of those Acts of Parliament If that cann't be made out which sure he won't pretend to it will remain that those English Acts of Parliament did really dispose of the Rebels Lands in Ireland and if there be any after Settling or Confirming them to the Safety of the Proprietors by Act of Parliament in Ireland that cannot impeach the Authority of the first Acts. Well he still allows That we shall be repaid our Expences all they desire is that in preservation of their own Rights and Liberties they may do it in their own Methods regularly in their own Parliaments And if the Reim●ursment be all that England Stands on what availeth it whether it be done this way or that way so it be done A pretty loose way of Talking this he speaks as confidently of reimbursing us as if that were a small matter and they had this way and that way ways enough to do it and they are so well prepar'd that they desire nothing else but Liberty to let them do it in their own methods I am sorry we han't heard one word like this offer'd in their Parliaments 't would have lookt much better from them than from Mr. Molynellx to have taken Notice of this great Debt to England and to have at least declar'd their Intent of paying it but he is a Member and perhaps he knows their Minds better than I do and because he proposes so fairly I am willing to strike a Bargain with him if he 'll undertake on the Behalf of Ireland I 'll undertake on t the part of England that

by our Municipal Laws and it does indeed look oddly enough in him to Controvert this with us before we are repaid one Farthing of a vastly greater Expence and tell us here 's an Example in Point for us Such Treatment as this would raise the Blood of an Englishman and though a fitting Modesty and Regard to my Reader doth restrain me from venting the Resentment due to so great an Indignity put upon the English Nation yet I hope I may be indulg'd to imprecate upon my self if ever I should discover so little Thought as to make use of Examples highly reflecting upon my Superiours and yet no way agreeing with the Fact in hand may I be Censured for an Eternal Blockhead and condemn'd to wear my Book affixt on my Back as a perpetual Badge of my Insolence and Folly I am weary enough of this Head of Purchase and yet I will take the pains to transcribe the last Paragraph on 't from end to end He says 'T is an ungenerous thing to vilify good Offices I am far from doing it but with all possible Gratitude acknowledge the mighty Benefits Ireland has often receiv'd from England in helping to suppress the Rebellions of this Country to England's Charitable Assistance our Lives and Fortunes are owing But with all humble Submission I desire it may be Considered whether England did not at the same time propose the preventing of their own Danger that would necessarily have attended our Ruine if so 't was in some measure their own Battails they fought when they fought for Ireland and a great part of their Expence must be reckon'd in their own Defence If Mr. Molyneux had had a due sense of what he was saying he could never have so solemnly protested against the ungenerousness of Vilifying good Offices and yet in the next Breath attribute no more to England in what she hath done for them than just her helping to Suppress the Rebellions Is not this Vilifying with a Witness after we have Reduc'd Ireland and put them into the Possession of their Estates upon our own proper Cost and Strength to have it lessen'd to no more than a little Lending them a Hand at a dead lift and for which they are very willing to repay us in Words Why this is not worth his acknowledging with all possible Gratitude the Mighty Benefits they have received from England c. But after all this Mighty Hodge-Podge of an Harangue is but to tickle us into a good Humour that he may slyly usher in his Plea in Abatement of Damages and so pay us all off with the Flap of a Fox-tail It is to be Considered whether England did not at the same time prevent their own Danger and consequently in some measure fight their own Battels We have been pretty well us'd to this ungrateful Complement from others of his Countrey men who have been apt on all Occasions to reflect upon us that 't was not for their sakes but our own that we reduc'd Ireland only Mr. Molyneux like himself gives it us in finer Language What if we also have receiv'd some Advantage by this Reduction I should think that a People who had any due sense of Gratitude might remain so well Content with the great Benefit that accrew'd to themselves by the re-enjoyment of the Estates which they had lost as not to upbraid us with any such reasonable Convenience which we might draw from it without Prejudice to them Can they think it had been fit for us to engage in so mighty an Expence for no other Reason than to recover their Estates for them Well suppose we had thought fit only to fight our own Battails and when we had done to have bridled the Irish by strong Garrisons and had no reguard to have restor'd them to their Estates perhaps we might have as well secur'd our own Interest that way However the Tenderness we had for them how ill soever some of them seem to have deserv'd it would not suffer us to use so Severe a Policy which yet if we had practic'd from the beginning and kept our own People at home would have turn'd to much better account to us than if we should at last be so far overseen as to suffer a Colony of our own to Contest with us for our Trade But yet I am for Complying with Mr. Molyneux in this matter and I am content that a part of this Expence in proportion to the Benefit England shall be thought to have receiv'd by the Reduction of Ireland shall remain upon our Account but then I hope the vast advantage which immediately aocrews to the People of Ireland by the Recovery of their Lands and the fair time we have spar'd them from Contributing any thing may be thought justly to intitle them to the far better part of this Charge and if Mr. Molyneux can with as much Ingenuity find a way to pay it as he hath been ready to own it he will very much oblige the Government of England at a time when their own Occasions do so much want it So much for Mr. Molyneux's feign'd pretence of Purchase which can be but an Invention of some such pregnant Brain as his own for I never before heard that the People of England had set up any pretention for their Superiority over Ireland upon that foot such another is that which follows Another thing alledg'd against Ireland is this If a Forreign Nation as France or Spain for instance prove prejudicial to England in its Trade or any other way England if it be stronger redresses it self by force of Arms or denouncing War and why may not England if Ireland lyes cross their Interests restrain Ireland and bind it by Laws and maintain these Laws by Force He discusses this Point very gravely but since no Body ever thought of making this any Argument but himself and we never pretended to have so little to do with them as with France and Spain I 'll trouble my self no further about it but let it pass for a Meer Whimsie Mr. Molyneux tells us The last thing he shall take Notice of that some raise against them is that Ireland is to be lookt upon as a Colony from England Here he attempts to delude us with a falacious Argument but that is very easily solv'd by an Obvious Distinction If he would not have Ireland lookt upon as a Colony yet I believe there can be no Notion of a Colony clearer than that the English planted there are so in the strictest Sense and that I shall undertake to prove anon although he calls it The most Extravagant of all Objections against them and then without doubt it must follow that As the Roman Colonies were subject to the Laws made by the Senate at Rome so ought Ireland by those made by the great Council at Westminster I may add or any where else where our Parliament may sit to Enact Laws But he would not have this be thought To have the least Foundation