stiled Tyrant Traitor and Murderer The King being dead the same day they made an Act of Parliament that whereas several pretences might be made to the Crown c. It is Enacted by this present Parliament and Authority of the same That no person presume to declare proclaim or publish or any way promote Charles Stuart Son of Charles late King of England commonly called Prince of Wales or any other person to be King of England or Ireland c. B. Seeing the King was dead and his Successor barred by what declar'd Authority was the Peace maintain'd A. They had in their anger against the Lords formerly declar'd the Supream Power of the Nation to be in the House of Commons and now on February 5 th they vote the House of Lords to be useless and dangerous And thus the Kingdom is turned into a Democracie or rather an Oligarchie for presently they made an Act That none of those Members who were secluded for opposing the Vote of Non-Addresses should ever be re-admitted And these were commonly called the secluded Members and the rest were by some stiled a Parliament and by others the Rump I think you need not now have a Catalogue either of the Vices or of the Crimes or of the Follies of the greatest part of them that composed the Long Parliament than which greater cannot be in the World What greater Vices than Irreligion Hypocrisie Avarice and Cruelty which have appear'd so eminently in the Actions of Presbyterian Members and Presbyterian Ministers What greater Crimes than Blaspheming and Killing God's Anointed which was done by the hands of the Independents but by the folly and first Treason of the Presbyterians who betrayed and sold him to his Murderers Nor was it a little folly in the Lords not to see that by the taking away of the King's Power they lost withal their own Priviledges or to think themselves either for number or judgment any way a considerable assistance to the House of Commons And for those men who had skill in the Laws it was no great sign of understanding not to perceive that the Laws of the Land were made by the King to oblige his Subjects to Peace and Justice and not to oblige himself that made them And lastly and generally all men are fools which pull down any thing which does them good before they have set up something better in its place He that would set up Democracie with an Army should have an Army to maintain it but these men did it when those men had the Army that were resolv'd to pull it down To these Follies I might add the folly of those fine men which out of their reading of Tully Seneca or other Antimonarchiques think themselves sufficient Politiques and shew their discontents when they are not called to the management of the State and turn from one side to another upon every neglect they fancy from the King or his Enemies Behemoth PART IV. A. YOU have seen the Rump in possession as they believ'd of the Supream Power over the two Nations of England and Ireland and the Army their Servant though Cromwel thought otherwise serving them diligently for the advancement of his own purposes I am now therefore to shew you their Proceedings B. Tell me first how this kind of Government under the Rump or Relique of a House of Commons is to be called A. 'T is doubtless an Oligarchy for the Supream Authority must needs be in one man or in more If in one it is Monarchy the Rump therefore was no Monarchy If the Authority were in more than one it was in all or in fewer than all When in all it is Democracy for every man may enter into the Assembly which makes the Sovereign Court which they could not do here It is therefore manifest that the Authority was in a few and consequently the State was an Oligarchy B. Is it not impossible for a People to be well govern'd that are to obey more Masters than one A. Both the Rump and all other Sovereign Assemblies if they have but one Voice though they be many Men yet are they but one Person for contrary Commands cannot consist in one and the same Voice which is the Voice of the greatest part and therefore they might govern well enough if they had Honesty and Wit enough The first Act of the Rump was the Exclusion of those Members of the House of Commons which had been formerly kept out by violence for the procuring of an Ordinance for the King's Tryal for these men had appear'd against the Ordinance of Non-Addresses and therefore to be excluded because they might else be an Impediment to their future Designs B. Was it not rather because in the Authority of few they thought the fewer the better both in respect of their shares and also of a nearer approach in every one of them to the Dignity of a King A. Yes certainly that was their principal end B. When these were put out why did not the Counties and Burroughs choose others in their places A. They could not do that without order from the House After this they constituted a Councel of 40 persons which they termed a Councel of State whose Office was to execute what the Rump should command B. When there was neither King nor House of Lords they could not call themselves a Parliament for a Parliament is a Meeting of the King Lords and Commons to confer together about the businesses of the Common-wealth With whom did the Rump confer A. Men may give to their Assembly what name they please what signification soever such Name might formerly have had and the Rump took the Name of Parliament as most suitable to their purpose and such a Name as being venerable amongst the people for many hundred years had countenanced and sweetned Subsidies and other Levies of Money otherwise very unpleasant to the Subject They took also afterwards another name which was Custodes Libertatis Angliae which Titles they used only in their Writs issuing out of the Courts of Justice B. I do not see how a Subject that is tied to the Laws can have more liberty in one form of Government than another A. Howsoever to the people that understand by liberty nothing but leave to do what they list it was a Title not ingrateful Their next work was to set forth a publick Declaration That they were fully resolv'd to maintain the fundamental Laws of the Nation as to the Preservation of the Lives Liberties and Proprieties of the People B. What did they mean by the fundamental Laws of the Nation A. Nothing but to abuse the people for the only fundamental Law in every Common-wealth is To obey the Laws from time to time which he shall make to whom the People have given the Supream Power How likely then are they to uphold the fundamental Laws that had murder'd him who was by themselves so often acknowledged for their Lawful Sovereign Besides at the same time that this Declaration came
this pretence of immunity from contributing to the King but at their own pleasure for when they have laid the burthen of defending the whole Kingdom and governing it upon any person whatsoever there is very little equity he should depend on others for the means of performing it or if he do they are his Sovereign not he theirs And as for the Common Law contained in Reports they have no force but what the King gives them Besides it were more unreasonable that a corrupt or foolish Judge his unjust Sentence should by any time how long soever obtain the Authority and Force of a Law But amongst the Statute Laws there is one called Magna Charta or the Great Charter of the Liberties of English-men in which there is one Article wherein a King heretofore hath granted That no Man shall be distrained that is have his Goods taken from him otherwise than by the Law of the Land B. Is not that a sufficient ground for their purpose A. No that leaves us in the same doubt which you think it clears for where was that Law of the Land then Did they mean another Magna Charta that was made by some King more ancient yet No that Statute was made not to exempt any Man from payments to the Publick but for securing of every Man from such as abused the King's Power by surreptitious obtaining the King's Warrants to the oppressing of those against whom he had any Suit in Law but it was conducing to the ends of some rebellious Spirits in this Parliament to have it interpreted in the wrong sense and suitable enough to the understanding of the rest or most part of them to let it pass B. You make the Members of that Parliament very simple Men and yet the People chose them for the wisest of the Land A. If Craft be wisdom they were wise enough but wise as I define it is he that knows how to bring his business to pass without the assistance of knavery and ignoble shifts by the sole strength of his good contrivance A Fool may win from a better Gamester by the advantage of false Dice and packing of Cards B. According to your definition there be few wise Men now adays such Wisdom is a kind of Gallantry that few are brought up to and most think folly Fine Cloaths Great Feathers Civility towards Men that will not swallow Injuries and Injury towards them that will is the present Gallantry but when the Parliament afterwards having gotten the power into their hands levied Money for their own use what said the People to that A. What else but that it was legal and to be paid as being imposed by consent of Parliaments B. I have heard often that they ought to pay what was imposed by consent of Parliaments to the use of the King but to their own use never before I see by this it is easier to gull the Multitude than any one man amongst them for what one man that has not his natural Judgment deprav'd by accident could be so easily cozened in a matter that concerns his purse had he not been passionately carried away by the rest to change of Government or rather to a Liberty of every one to govern himself A. Judge then what kind of men such a multitude of ignorant People were like to elect for their Burgesses and Knights of Shires B. I can make no other Judgment but that they who were then elected were just such as had been elected for former Parliaments and as are like to be elected for Parliaments to come for the Common People have been and always will be ignorant of their duty to the Publick as never meditating any thing but their particular Interest in other things following their immediate Leaders which are either the Preachers or the most potent of the Gentlemen that dwell amongst them as common Soldiers for the most part follow their immediate Captains if they like them if you think the late miseries have made them wiser that will quickly be forgot and then we shall be no wiser than we were A. Why may not men be taught their duty that is the Science of just and unjust as divers other Sciences have been taught from true Principles and evident Demonstration and much more easily than any of those Preachers and Democratical Gentlemen could teach Rebellion and Treason B. But who can teach what none have learn'd Or if any man hath been so singular as to have studied the Science of Justice and Equity how can he teach it safely when it is against the Interest of those that are in possession of the Power to hurt him A. The Rules of Just and Unjust sufficiently demonstrated and from Principles evident to the meanest capacity have not been wanting and notwithstanding the obscurity of their Author have shined not only in this but also in Forreign Countries to men of good education but they are few in respect of the rest of men whereof many cannot read many though they can have no leisure and of them that have leisure the greatest part have their minds wholly employed and taken up by their private businesses or pleasures So that it is impossible that the Multitude should ever learn their duty but from the Pulpit and upon Holy-days but then and from thence it is that they learned their disobedience And therefore the Light of that Doctrine has been hitherto covered and kept under here by a cloud of Adversaries which no private man's Reputation can break through without the Authority of the Universities but out of the Universities came all those Preachers that taught the contrary The Universities have been to this Nation as the Wooden Horse was to the Trojans B. Can you tell me why and when the Universities here and in other places first began A. It seems for the time they began in the Reign of the Emperor Charles the Great before which time I doubt not but that there were many Grammar Schools for the Latin Tongue which was the natural Language of the Roman Church but for Universities that is to say Schools for the Sciences in general and especially for Divinity it is manifest that the Institution of them was recommended by the Pope's Letter to the Emperor Charles the Great and recommended farther by a Council held in his time I think at Chalon sur Saone and not long after was erected an University at Paris and the Colledge call'd Vniversity-Colledge at Oxford And so by degrees several Bishops Noble-men and Rich-men and some Kings and Queens contributing thereunto the Universities obtained at last their present splendor B. But what was the Pope's design in it A. What other design was he like to have but what you heard before the advancement of his own Authority in the Countries where the Universities were erected There they learned to dispute for him and with unintelligible distinctions to blind mens Eyes whilst they incroached upon the Right of Kings and it was an evident Argument of that Design
King and both Houses of Parliament For the re-payment of which Money and Plate they were to have the Publick Faith B. What Publick Faith is there when there is no Publick What is it that can be called Publick in a Civil War without the King A. The Truth is the Security was nothing worth but served well enough to gull those seditious Blockheads that were more fond of Change than either of their Peace or Profit Having by this means gotten Contributions from those that were the well-affected to their Cause they made use of it afterwards to force the like Contribution from others For in November following they made an Ordinance for Assessing also of those that had not contributed then or had contributed but not proportionably to their Estates And yet this was contrary to what the Parliament promised and declar'd in the Propositions themselves for they declar'd in the first Proposition That no man's affection should be measured by the proportion of his Offer so that he expressed his good will to the Service in any proportion whatsoever Besides this in the beginning of March following they made an Ordinance to Levy weekly a great Sum of Money upon every County City Town Place and Person of any Estate almost in England which weekly Sum as may appear by the Ordinance it self printed and published in March 1642. by Order of both Houses comes to almost 33000 l. and consequently to above 1700000 l. for the year They had besides all this the profits of the Kings Lands and Woods and whatsoever was remaining unpaid of any Subsidy formerly granted him and the Tonnage and Poundage usually received by the King besides the profit of the Sequestrations of great Persons whom they pleased to vote Delinquents and the profits of the Bishops Lands which they took to themselves a year or a little more after B. Seeing then the Parliament had such advantage of the King in Money and Arms and Multitude of Men and had in their Hands the King's Fleet I cannot imagine what hope the King could have either of Victory unless he resigned into their Hands the Sovereignty or subsisting for I cannot well believe he had any advantage of them either in Councellors Conductors or in the Resolutions of his Soldiers A. On the contrary I think he had also some disadvantage in that for though he had as good Officers at least as any then served the Parliament yet I doubt he had not so useful Councel as was necessary and for his Soldiers though they were men as stout as theirs yet because their Valor was not sharpned so with malice as theirs was of the other side they fought not so keenly as their Enemies did amongst whom there were a great many London Apprentices who for want of Experience in the War would have been fearful enough of Death and Wounds approaching visibly in glistering Swords but for want of Judgment scarce thought of such death as comes invisibly in a Bullet and therefore were very hardly to be driven out of the Field B. But what fault do you find in the King's Councellors Lords and other Persons of Quality and Experience A. Only that fault which was generally in the whole Nation which was that they thought the Government of England was not an absolute but a mixt Monarchy and that if the King should clearly subdue this Parliament that his Power would be what he pleased and theirs as little as he pleased which they counted Tyranny This opinion though it did not lessen their endeavour to gain the Victory for the King in a Battle when a Battle could not be avoided yet it weakned their endeavour to procure him an absolute Victory in the War And for this Cause notwithstanding that they saw that the Parliament was firmly resolv'd to take all Kingly Power whatsoever out of his Hands yet their Counsel to the King was upon all occasions to offer Propositions to them of Treaty and Accommodation and to make and publish Declarations which any man might easily have foreseen would be fruitless and not only so but also of great disadvantage to those Actions by which the King was to recover his Crown and preserve his Life for it took off the Courage of the best and forwardest of his Soldiers that looked for great benefit by their Service out of the Estates of the Rebels in case they could subdue them but none at all if the business should be ended by a Treaty B. And they had reason for a Civil War never ends by Treaty without the Sacrifice of those who were on both sides the sharpest You know well enough how things pass'd at the Reconciliation of Augustus and Antonius in Rome but I thought that after they once began to Levy Soldiers one against another that they would not any more have return'd of either side to Declarations or other Paper War which if it could have done any good would have done it long before this A. But seeing the Parliament continued writing and set forth their Declarations to the People against the Lawfulness of the King's Commission of Array and sent Petitions to the King as fierce and rebellious as ever they had done before demanding of him That he would disband his Soldiers and come up to the Parliament and leave those whom the Parliament called Delinquents which were none but the King 's best Subjects to their Mercy and pass such Bills as they should advise him would you not have the King set forth Declarations and Proclamations against the Illegality of their Ordinances by which they Levied Soldiers against him and answer those insolent Petitions of theirs B. No it had done him no good before and therefore was not likely to do him any afterwards for the common people whose hands were to decide the Controversie understood not the Reasons of either Party and for those that by Ambition were once set upon the Enterprize of changing the Government they cared not much what was Reason and Justice in the Cause but what strength they might procure by reducing the Multitude with Remonstrances from the Parliament House or by Sermons in the Churches And to their Petitions I would not have had any Answer made at all more than this that if they would disband their Army and put themselves upon his Mercy they should find him more Gratious than they expected A. That had been a gallant Answer indeed if it had proceeded from him after some extraordinary great Victory in Battle or some extraordinary assurance of a Victory at last in the whole War B. Why What could have hap'ned to him worse than at length he suffered notwithstanding his gentle Answers and all his reasonable Declarations A. Nothing but who knew that B. Any man might see that he was never like to be restored to his Right without Victory and such his stoutness being known to the People would have brought to his assistance many more hands than all the Arguments of Law or force of Eloquence couched in Declarations
they thought worthy even to be Senators of Rome and to give every one of the Common People the Priviledges of the City of Rome by which they were protected from the Contumelies of other Nations where they resided Why were not the Scotch and English in like manner united into one People A. King James at his first coming to the Crown of England did endeavour it but could not prevail But for all that I believe the Scotch have now as many Priviledges in England as any Nation had in Rome of those which were so as you say made Romans for they are all naturaliz'd and have right to buy Land in England to themselves and their Heirs B. It 's true of them that were born in Scotland after the time that King James was in possession of the Kingdom of England A. There be very few now that were born before But why have they a better Right that were born after than they that were born before B. Because they were born Subjects to the King of England and the rest not A. Were not the rest born Subjects to King James And was not he King of England B. Yes but not then A. I understand not the subtilty of that distinction But upon what Law is that distinction grounded Is there any Statute to that purpose B. I cannot tell I think not but it is grounded upon Equity A. I see little Equity in this that those Nations that are bound to equal obedience to the same King should not have equal priviledges And now seeing there be so very few born before King James's coming in what greater priviledge had those ingrafted Romans by their Naturalization in the State of Rome or in the State of England the English themselves more than the Scotch B. Those Romans when any of them were in Rome had their Voice in the making of Laws A. And the Scotch have their Parliaments wherein their assent is requir'd to the Laws there made which is as good Have not many of the Provinces of France their several Parliaments and several Constitutions and yet they are all equally natural Subjects to the King of France and therefore for my part I think they were mistaken both English and Scotch in calling one another Forreigners Howsoever that be the King had a very sufficient Army wherewith he marched towards Scotland and by that time he was come to York the Scotch Army was drawn up to the Frontiers and ready to march into England which also they presently did giving out all the way that their March should be without damage to the Countrey and that their Errand was only to deliver a Petition to the King for the redress of many pretended Injuries they had receiv'd from such of the Court whose Counsel the King most followed so they passed through Northumberland quietly till they came to a Ford in the River of Tine a little above New-Castle where they found some little opposition from a Party of the King's Army sent thither to stop them whom the Scotch easily master'd and as soon as they were over seiz'd upon New-Castle and coming farther on upon the City of Duresme and sent to the King to desire a Treaty which was granted and the Commissioners on both sides met at Rippon The Conclusion was that all should be referr'd to the Parliament which the King should call to meet at Westminster on the third of November following being in the same Year 1640. and thereupon the King returned to London B. So the Armies were disbanded A. No the Scotch Army was to be defrayed by the Counties of Northumberland and Duresme and the King was to pay his own till the disbanding of both should be agreed upon in Parliament B. So in effect both the Armies were maintain'd at the King's charge and the whole Controversie to be decided by a Parliament almost wholly Presbyterian and as partial to the Scotch as themselves could have wished A. And yet for all this they durst not presently make War upon the King there was so much yet left of reverence to him in the Hearts of the People as to have made them odious if they had declared what they intended they must have some colour or other to make it believ'd that the King made War first upon the Parliament and besides they had not yet sufficiently disgraced him in Sermons and Pamphlets nor removed from about him those they thought could best counsel him Therefore they resolv'd to proceed with him like skilful Hunters first to single him out by Men disposed in all parts to drive him into the open Field and then in case he should but seem to turn head to call that a making of War against the Parliament And first they call'd in question such as had either preached or written in defence of any of those Rights which belonging to the Crown they meant to usurp and take from the King to themselves Whereupon some few Preachers and Writers were imprisoned or forced to fly The King not protecting these they proceeded to call in question some of the King 's own Actions in his Ministers whereof they imprisoned some and some went beyond Sea And whereas certain persons having endeavoured by Books and Sermons to raise Sedition and committed other crimes of high nature had therefore been censured by the King's Council in the Star-Chamber and imprisoned the Parliament by their own Authority to try it seems how the King and the People would take it for their persons were inconsiderable ordered their setting at liberty which was accordingly done with great applause of the People that flocked about them in London in manner of a Triumph This being done without resistance the King 's Right to Ship-Money B. Ship-Money what 's that A. The Kings of England for the defence of the Sea had power to tax all the Counties of England whether they were Maritime or not for the building and furnishing of Ships which Tax the King had then lately found cause to impose and the Parliament exclaim'd against it as an oppression and one of their Members that had been taxed but 20 s. mark the oppression a Parliament-man of 500 l. a year Land taxed at 20 s. they were forced to bring it to a Tryal at Law he refusing payment and he was cast Again when all the Judges of Westminster were demanded their Opinions concerning the Legality of it of Twelve that there are it was judged legal by Ten for which though they were not punished yet they were afrighted by the Parliament B. What did the Parliament mean when they did exclaim against it as illegal Did they mean it was against Statute-Law or against the Judgments of Lawyers given heretofore which are commonly called Reports or did they mean it was against Equity which I take to be the same with the Law of Nature A. It is a hard matter or rather impossible to know what other Men mean especially if they be crafty but sure I am Equity was not their ground for
They sate down in November and now it was May in this space of time which is but half a year they won from the King the adherence which was due to him from his People they drave his faithfulest Servants from him beheaded the Earl of Strafford imprison'd the Arch-bishop of Canterbury obtain'd a Triennial Parliament after their own Dissolution and a continuance of their own sitting as long as they listed which last amounted to a total Extinction of the King 's Right in case that such a Grant were valid which I think it is not unless the Sovereignty it self be in plain terms renounced which it was not But what Money by way of Subsidy or otherwise did they grant the King in recompence of all these his large Concessions A. None at all but often promised they would make him the most glorious King that ever was in England which were words that passed well enough for well meaning with the Common People B. But the Parliament was contented now for I cannot imagine what they should desire more from the King than he had now granted them A. Yes they desir'd the whole and absolute Sovereignty and to change the Monarchical Government into an Oligarchie that is to say to make the Parliament consisting of a few Lords and about 400 Commoners absolute in the Sovereignty for the present and shortly after to lay the House of Lords aside for this was the Design of the Presbyterian Ministers who taking themselves to be by Divine Right the only lawful Governors of the Church endeavoured to bring the same form of Government into the Civil State And as the Spiritual Laws were to be made by their Synods so the Civil Laws should be made by the House of Commons who as they thought would no less be ruled by them afterwards than they formerly had been wherein they were deceived and found themselves out-gone by their own Disciples though not in Malice yet in Wit B. What followed after this A. In August following the King supposing he had now sufficiently obliged the Parliament to proceed no farther against him took a Journey into Scotland to satisfie his Subjects there as he had done here intending perhaps so to gain their good Wills that in case the Parliament here should Levy Arms against him they should not be aided by the Scots wherein he also was deceiv'd for though they seemed satisfied with what he did whereof one thing was his giving way to the abolition of Episcopacy yet afterwards they made a League with the Parliament and for Money when the King began to have the better of the Parliament invaded England in the Parliaments quarrel but this was a year or two after B. Before you go any farther I desire to know the Ground and Original of that Right which either the House of Lords or House of Commons or both together now pretend to A. It is a Question of things so long past that they are now forgotten Nor have we any thing to conjecture by but the Records of our own Nation and some small and obscure fragments of Roman Histories And for the Records seeing they are of things done only sometimes justly sometimes unjustly you can never by them know what Right they had but only what Right they pretended B. Howsoever let me know what light we have in this matter from the Roman Histories A. It would be too long and an useless digression to cite all the Ancient Authors that speak of the forms of those Common-wealths which were amongst our first Ancestors the Saxons and other Germans and of other Nations from whom we derive the Titles of Honour now in use in England nor will it be possible to derive from them any Argument of Right but only Examples of Fact which by the Ambition of potent Subjects have been oftner unjust than otherwise And for those Saxons or Angles that in Ancient times by several Invasions made themselves Masters of this Nation they were not in themselves one Body of a Common-wealth but only a League of divers petty German Lords and States such as was the Grecian Army in the Trojan War without other obligation than that which proceeded from their own fear and weakness Nor were those Lords for the most part the Sovereigns at home in their own Country but chosen by the People for the Captains of the Forces they brought with them And therefore it was not without Equity when they had conquered any part of the Land and made some one of them King thereof that the rest should have greater priviledges than the Common People and Soldiers amongst which priviledges a man may easily conjecture this to be one That they should be made acquainted and be of Councel with him that hath the Sovereignty in matter of Government and have the greatest and most honourable Offices both in Peace and War But because there can be no Government where there is more than one Sovereign it cannot be inferr'd that they had a Right to oppose the King's Resolutions by force nor to enjoy those Honours and Places longer than they should continue good Subjects And we find that the Kings of England did upon every great occasion call them together by the name of discreet and wise Men of the Kingdom and hear their Counsel and make them Judges of all Causes that during their sitting were brought before them But as he summon'd them at his own pleasure so had he also ever the power at his pleasure to dissolve them The Normans also that descended from the Germans as we did had the same Customs in this particular and by this means this priviledge of the Lords to be of the King 's Great Councel and when they were assembled to be the Highest of the King's Courts of Justice continued still after the Conquest to this day But though there be amongst the Lords divers Names or Titles of Honour yet they have their Priviledge by the only Name of Baron a Name receiv'd from the Ancient Gaules amongst whom that Name signified the King's Man or rather one of his Great Men By which it seems to me that though they gave him Counsel when he requir'd it yet they had no Right to make War upon him if he did not follow it B. When began first the House of Commons to be part of the King 's Great Councel A. I do not doubt but that before the Conquest some discreet Men and known to be so by the King were called by special Writ to be of the same Councel though they were not Lords but that is nothing to the House of Commons The Knights of Shires and Burgesses were never called to Parliament for ought that I know till the beginning of the Reign of Edward the first or the latter end of the Reign of Henry the third immediately after the misbehaviour of the Barons and for ought any man knows were called on purpose to weaken that Power of the Lords which they had so freshly abused Before the time
of Henry the third the Lords were descended most of them from such as in the Invasions and Conquests of the Germans were Peers and Fellow-Kings till one was made King of them all and their Tenants were their Subjects as it is at this day with the Lords of France but after the time of Henry the third the Kings began to make Lords in the place of them whose Issue failed Titulary only without the Lands belonging to their Title and by that means their Tenants being no longer bound to serve them in the Wars they grew every day less and less able to make a Party against the King though they continued still to be his Great Councel And as their Power decreased so the Power of the House of Commons increased but I do not find they were part of the King's Councel at all nor Judges over other men though it cannot be denied but a King may ask their advice as well as the advice of any other but I do not find that the end of their summoning was to give advice but only in case they had any Petitions for redress of Grievances to be ready there with them whilst the King had his Great Councel about him But neither they nor the Lords could present to the King as a Grievance That the King took upon him to make the Laws To choose his own Privy-Councellors To raise Money and Soldiers To defend the Peace and Honour of the Kingdom To make Captains in his Army To make Governours of his Castles whom he pleased for this had been to tell the King that it was one of their Grievances that he was King B. What did the Parliament do whilst the King was in Scotland A. The King went in August after which the Parliament September the 8 th adjourned till the 20 th of October and the King return'd about the end of November following in which time the most seditious of both Houses and which had design'd the change of Government and to cast off Monarchy but yet had not wit enough to set up any other Government in its place and consequently left it to the chance of War made a Cabal amongst themselves in which they projected how by seconding one another to govern the House of Commons and invented how to put the Kingdom by the power of that House into a Rebellion which they then called a posture of Defence against such dangers from abroad as they themselves should feign and publish Besides whilst the King was in Scotland the Irish Papists got together a great Party with an intention to Massacre the Protestants there and had laid a Design for the seizing of Dublin Castle in October the 20 th where the King's Officers of the Government of that Countrey made their Residence and had effected it had it not been discovered the night before The manner of the Discovery and the Murders they committed in the Country afterwards I need not tell you since the whole Story of it is extant B. I wonder they did not expect and provide for a Rebellion in Ireland as soon as they began to quarrel with the King in England for was there any body so ignorant as not to know that the Irish Papists did long for a change of Religion there as well as the Presbyterians in England Or that in general the Irish Nation did hate the name of Subjection to England Or would longer be quiet than they feared an Army out of England to chastise them What better time then could they take for their Rebellion than this wherein they were encouraged not only by our weakness caused by this division between the King and his Parliament but also by the Example of the Presbyterians both of the Scotch and English Nation But what did the Parliament do upon this occasion in the King's absence A. Nothing but consider what use they might make of it to their own ends partly by imputing it to the King 's evil Counsellors and partly by occasion thereof to demand of the King the power of pressing and ordering of Soldiers which power whosoever has has also without doubt the whole Sovereignty B. When came the King back A. He came back the 25 th of November and was welcomed with the Acclamations of the Common People as much as if he had been the most beloved of all the Kings that were before him but found not a Reception by the Parliament answerable to it They presently began to pick new quarrels against him out of every thing he said to them December the second the King called together both Houses of Parliament and then did only recommend unto them the raising of Succors for Ireland B. What quarrel could they pick out of that A. None but in order thereto as they may pretend they had a Bill in agitation to assert the Power of Levying and Pressing Soldiers to the two Houses of the Lords and Commons which was as much as to take from the King the Power of the Militia which is in effect the whole Sovereign Power for he that hath the power of Levying and Commanding of the Soldiers has all other Rights of Sovereignty which he shall please to claim The King hearing of it called the Houses of Parliament together again on December the 14 th and then pressed again the business of Ireland as there was need for all this while the Irish were murdering of the English in Ireland and strengthening themselves against the Forces they expected to come out of England and withal told them he took notice of the Bill in agitation for pressing of Soldiers and that he was contented it should pass with a Salvo Jure both for him and them because the present time was unseasonable to dispute it in B. What was there unreasonable in this A. Nothing What 's unreasonable is one question what they quarrel'd at is another They quarrel'd at this That his Majesty took notice of the Bill while it was in debate in the House of Lords before it was presented to him in the course of Parliament and also that he shewed himself displeas'd with those that propounded the said Bill both which they declared to be against the Priviledges of Parliament and petitioned the King to give them reparation against those by whose evil Counsel he was induced to it that they might receive condign punishment B. This was cruel proceeding Do not the Kings of England use to sit in the Lords House when they please And was not this Bill in debate then in the House of Lords It is a strange thing that a Man should be lawfully in the company of Men where he must needs hear and see what they say and do and yet must not take notice of it so much as to the same company for though the King was not present at the Debate it self yet it was lawful for any of the Lords to make him acquainted with it Any one of the House of Commons though not present at a Proposition or Debate in
when the Parliament was ended and the favour shewed to Papists by Secretary Windebank and others B. All this will go current with common People for misgovernment and for faults of the King 's though some of them were misfortunes and both the misfortunes and the misgovernment if any were were the faults of the Parliament who by denying to give him Money did both frustrate his Attempts abroad and put him upon those extraordinary ways which they call Illegal of raising Money at home A. You see what a heap of evils they have raised to make a shew of ill government to the People which they second with an enumeration of the many Services they have done the King in overcoming a great many of them though not all and in divers other things and say that though they had contracted a Debt to the Scots of 2200 l. and granted six Subsidies and a Bill of Pole-Money worth six Subsidies more yet that God had so blessed the endeavours of this Parliament that the Kingdom was a gainer by it and then follows the Catalogue of those good things they had done for the King and Kingdom For the Kingdom they had done they said these things They had abolished Ship-Money They had taken away Coat and Conduct-Money and other Military Charges which they said amounted to little less than the Ship-Money That they suppress'd all Monopolies which they reckoned above a Million yearly saved by the Subject That they had quelled living Grievances meaning evil Counsellors and Actors by the death of my Lord of Strafford by the flight of the Chancellor Finch and of Secretary Windebank by the Imprisonment of the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury and of Judge Bartlet and the Impeachment of other Bishops and Judges That they had pass'd a Bill for a Triennial Parliament and another for the Continuance of the present Parliament till they should think fit to dissolve themselves B. That is to say for ever if they be suffered But the sum of all these things which they had done for the Kingdom is that they had left it without Government without Strength without Money without Law and without good Councel A. They reckoned also putting down of the High-Commission and the abating of the power of the Council-Table and of the Bishops and their Courts The taking away of unnecessary Ceremonies in Religion Removing of Ministers from their Livings that were not of their Faction and putting in such as were B. All this was but their own and not the Kingdoms Business A. The good they had done the King was first they said The giving of 25000 l. a month for the relief of the Northern Counties B. What need of relief had the Northern more than the rest of the Counties of England A Yes in the Northern Counties were quartered the Scotch Army which the Parliament called in to oppose the King and consequently their Quarter was to be discharged B. True but by the Parliament that call'd them in A. But they say no and that this Money was given to the King because he is bound to protect his Subjects B. He is no farther bound to that than they to give him Money wherewithal to do it This is very great impudence to raise an Army against the King and with that Army to oppress their Fellow-Subjects and then require that the King should relieve them that is to say be at the charge of paying the Army that was raised to fight against him A. Nay farther They put to the King's Account the 300000 l. given to the Scots without which they would not have invaded England besides many other things that I now remember not B. I did not think there had been so great impudence and villany in mankind A. You have not observ'd the World long enough to see all that 's ill Such was their Remonstrance as I have told you With it they sent a Petition containing three Points 1. That his Majesty would deprive the Bishops of their Votes in Parliament and remove such Oppressions in Religion Church Government and Discipline as they had brought in 2. That he would remove from his Council all such as should promote the Peoples Grievances and employ in his Great and Publick Affairs such as the Parliament should confide in 3. That he would not give away the Lands Escheated to the Crown by the Rebellion in Ireland B. This last Point methinks was not wisely put in at this time it should have been reserv'd till they had subdued the Rebels against whom there were yet no Forces sent over 'T is like selling the Lyons Skin before they had kill'd him But what answer was made to the other two Propositions A. What answer should be made but a Denial About the same time the King himself exhibited Articles against six Persons of the Parliament five whereof were of the House of Commons and one of the House of Lords accusing them of High Treason and upon the 4 th of January went himself to the House of Commons to demand those five of them but private notice having been given by some Treacherous Person about the King they had absented themselves and by that means frustrated his Majesties Intentions and after he was gone the House making a hainous matter of it and a high breach of their Priviledges adjourned themselves into London there to sit as a General Committee pretending they were not safe at Westminster for the King when he went to the House to demand those Persons had somewhat more attendance with him but not otherwise armed than his Servants used to be than he ordinarily had and would not be pacified though the King did afterward wave the prosecution of those persons unless he would also discover to them those that gave him Counsel to go in that manner to the Parliament House to the end they might receive condign punishment which was the word they used in stead of cruelty B. This was a harsh demand Was it not enough that the King should forbear his Enemies but also that he must betray his Friends If they thus tyrannize over the King before they have gotten the Sovereign Power into their hands how will they tyrannize over their Fellow-Subjects when they have gotten it A. So as they did B. How long staid that Committee in London A. Not above two or three days and then were brought from London to the Parliament House by Water in great triumph guarded with a tumultuous number of Armed Men there to sit in security in despite of the King and make traiterous Acts against him such and as many as they listed and under favour of these tumults to frighten away from the House of Peers all such as were not of their own Faction For at this time the Rabble was so insolent that scarce any of the Bishops durst go to the House for fear of violence upon their persons in so much as twelve of them excused themselves of coming thither and by way of Petition to the King remonstrated That they were
commend either the Divinity or the Philosophy of those Heathen People but to shew only what the reputation of those Sciences can effect among the People For their Divinity was nothing but Idolatry and their Philosophy excepting the knowledge which the Aegyptian Priests and from them the Chaldaeans had gotten by long observation and study in Astronomy Geometry and Arithmetick very little and that in great part abused in Astrology and Fortune-telling Whereas the Divinity of the Clergy in this Nation considered apart from the mixture that has been introduced by the Church of Rome and in part retained here of the babling Philosophy of Aristotle and other Greeks that has no affinity with Religion and serves only to breed disaffection dissention and finally Sedition and Civil War as we have lately found by dear experience in the differences between the Presbyterians and Episcopals is the true Religion but for these differences both Parties as they came in power not only suppressed the Tenets of one another but also whatsoever Doctrine look'd with an ill aspect upon their Interest and consequently all true Philosophy especially Civil and Moral which can never appear propitious to ambition or to an exemption from their obedience due to the Sovereign Power After the King had accused the Lord Kimbolton a Member of the Lords House and Hollis Haslerigg Hampden Pim and Stroud five Members of the Lower House of High Treason and after the Parliament had voted out the Bishops from the House of Peers they pursued especially two things in their Petitions to his Majesty The one was That the King would declare who were the persons that advised him to go as he did to the Parliament House to apprehend them and that he would leave them to the Parliament to receive condign punishment and this they did to stick upon his Majesty the dishonour of deserting his Friends and betraying them to his Enemies The other was That he would allow them a Guard out of the City of London to be commanded by the Earl of Essex for which they pretended they could not else sit in safety which pretence was nothing but an upbraiding of his Majesty for coming to Parliament better accompanied than ordinary to seize the said five seditious Members B. I see no reason in petitioning for a Guard they should determine it to the City of London in particular and the Command by name to the Earl of Essex unless they meant the King should understand it for a Guard against himself A. Their meaning was that the King should understand it so and as I verily believe they meant he should take it for an affront and the King himself understanding it so denied to grant it though he were willing if they could not otherwise be satisfied to Command such a Guard to wait upon them as he would be responsible for to God Almighty Besides this the City of London petitioned the King put upon it no doubt by some Members of the Lower House to put the Tower of London into the Hands of persons of Trust meaning such as the Parliament should approve of and to appoint a Guard for the safety of his Majesty and the Parliament This Method of bringing Petitions in a Tumultuary manner by great multitudes of clamorous people was ordinary with the House of Commons whose Ambition could never have been served by way of prayer and request without extraordinary terror After the King had waved the prosecution of the five Members but denied to make known who had advised him to come in person to the House of Commons they question'd the Attorney-General who by the King's Command had exhibited the Articles against them and voted him a breaker of the Priviledge of Parliament and no doubt had made him feel their cruelty if he had not speedily fled the Land About the end of January they made an Order of both Houses of Parliament to prevent the going over of Popish Commanders into Ireland not so much fearing that as that by this the King himself choosing his Commanders for that Service might aid himself out of Ireland against the Parliament But this was no great matter in respect of a Petition they sent his Majesty about the same time that is to say about the 27 th or 28 th of January 1641. wherein they desir'd in effect the absolute Sovereignty of England though by the name of Sovereignty they challenged it not whilst the King was living For to the end that the fears and dangers of this Kingdom might be remov'd and the mischievous designs of those who are Enemies to the peace of it might be prevented they pray That his Majesty would be pleased to put forthwith first The Tower of London 2. All other Forts 3. The whole Militia of the Kingdom into the Hands of such persons as should be recommended to him by both the Houses of Parliament And this they stile a necessary Petition B. Were there really any such fears and dangers generally conceiv'd here or did there appear any Enemies at that time with such Designs as are mentioned in the Petition A. Yes But no other fear of danger but such as any discreet and honest man might justly have of the Designs of the Parliament it self who were the greatest Enemies to the peace of the Kingdom that could possibly be 'T is also worth observing that this Petition began with these words Most Gratious Sovereign So stupid they were as not to know that he that is Master of the Militia is Master of the Kingdom and consequently is in possession of a most absolute Sovereignty The King was now at Windsor to avoid the Tumults of the Common People before the Gates of White-hall together with their clamors and affronts there The 9 th of February after he came to Hampton-Court and thence he went to Dover with the Queen and the Princess of Orange his Daughter where the Queen with the Princess of Orange embarqued for Holland but the King returned to Greenwich whence he sent for the Prince of Wales and the Duke of York and so went with them towards York B. Did the Lords joyn with the Commons in this Petition for the Militia A. It appears so by the Title but I believe they durst not but do it The House of Commons took them but for a Cypher Men of Title only without real Power Perhaps also the most of them thought that the taking of the Militia from the King would be an addition to their own power but they were very much mistaken for the House of Commons never intended they should be sharers in it B. What answer made the King to this Petition A. That when he shall know the extent of Power which is intended to be established in those persons whom they desire to be the Commanders of the Militia in the several Counties and likewise to what time it shall be limited That no Power shall be executed by his Majesty alone without the advice of Parliament then he will declare that
and other Writings could have done by far and I wonder what kind of Men they were that hindered the King from taking this Resolution A. You may know by the Declarations themselves which are very long and full of quotations of Records and of Cases formerly Reported that the Penners of them were either Lawyers by profession or such Gentlemen as had the Ambition to be thought so Besides I told you before that those which were then likeliest to have their Counsel asked in this business were averse to absolute Monarchy as also to absolute Democracy or Aristocracy all which Governments they esteemed Tyranny and were in love with Monarchy which they used to praise by the Name of mixt Monarchy though it were indeed nothing else but pure Anarchy And those Men whose Pens the King most used in these Controversies of Law and Politicks were such if I have not been misinformed as having been Members of this Parliament had declaimed against Ship-Money and other Extraparliamentary Taxes as much as any but when they saw the Parliament grow higher in their Demands than they thought they would have done went over to the King's Party B. Who were those A. It is not necessary to name any man seeing I have undertaken only a short Narration of the follies and other faults of men during this trouble but not by naming the persons to give you or any man else occasion to esteem them the less now that the faults on all sides have been forgiven B. When the business was brought to this height by Levying of Soldiers and seizing of the Navy and Arms and other Provisions on both sides that no man was so blind as not to see they were in an estate of War one against another why did not the King by Proclamation or Message according to his undoubted Right dissolve the Parliament and thereby diminish in some part the Authority of their Levies and of other their unjust Ordinances A. You have forgotten that I told you that the King himself by a Bill that he passed at the same time when he passed the Bill for the Execution of the Earl of Strafford had given them Authority to hold the Parliament till they should by consent of both Houses dissolve themselves If therefore he had by any Proclamation or Message to the Houses dissolved them they would to their former defamations of his Majesties Actions have added this that he was a breaker of his word and not only in contempt of him have continued their Session but also have made advantage of it to the increase and strengthening of their own Party B. Would not the King 's raising of an Army against them be interpreted as a purpose to dissolve them by force And was it not as great a breach of promise to scatter them by force as to dissolve them by Proclamation Besides I cannot conceive that the passing of that Act was otherwise intended than conditionally so long as they should not ordain any thing contrary to the Sovereign Right of the King which Condition they had already by many of their Ordinances broken And I think that even by the Law of Equity which is the unalterable Law of Nature a man that has the Sovereign Power cannot if he would give away the Right of any thing which is necessary for him to retain for the good Government of his Subjects unless he do it in express words saying That he will have the Sovereign Power no longer For the giving away that which by consequence only draws the Sovereignty along with it is not I think a giving away of the Sovereignty but an error such as works nothing but an invalidity in the Grant it self And such was the King's passing of this Bill for the continuing of the Parliament as long as the two Houses pleased But now that the War was resolved on on both sides what needed any more dispute in writing A. I know not what need they had but on both sides they thought it needful to hinder one another as much as they could from Levying of Soldiers and therefore the King did set forth Declarations in print to make the People know that they ought not to obey the Officers of the new Militia set up by Ordinance of Parliament and also to let them see the Legality of his own Commissions of Array And the Parliament on their part did the like to justifie to the People the said Ordinance and to make the Commission of Array appear unlawful B. When the Parliament were Levying of Soldiers was it not lawful for the King to Levy Soldiers to defend himself and his Right though there had been no other Title for it but his own Preservation and that the Name of Commission of Array had never before been heard of A. For my part I think there cannot be a better Title for War than the defence of a man 's own Right but the People at that time thought nothing lawful for the King to do for which there was not some Statute made by Parliament For the Lawyers I mean the Judges of the Courts at Westminster and some few others though but Advocates yet of great reputation for their skill in the Common Laws and Statutes of England had infected most of the Gentry of England with their Maxims and Cases prejudged which they call Presidents and made them think so well of their own knowledge in the Law that they were very glad of this occasion to shew it against the King and thereby to gain a Reputation with the Parliament of being good Patriots and wise States-men B. What was this Commission of Array A. King William the Conqueror had gotten into his hands by Victory all the Land in England of which he disposed some part as Forests and Chases for his Recreation and some part to Lords and Gentlemen that had assisted him or were to assist him in the Wars upon which he laid a charge of Service in his Wars some with more men and some with less according to the Lands he had given them whereby when the King sent men unto them with Commission to make use of their Service they were obliged to appear with Arms and to accompany the King to the Wars for a certain time at their own charges and such were the Commissions by which this King did then make his Levies B. Why then was it not legal A. No doubt but it was legal but what did that amount to with men that were already resolv'd to acknowledge for Law nothing that was against their Design of abolishing Monarchy and placing a Sovereign and absolute arbitrary Power in the House of Commons B. To destroy Monarchy and set up the House of Commons are two businesses A. They found it so at last but did not think it so then B. Let us now come to the Military part A. I intended only the Story of their Injustice Impudence and Hypocrisie therefore for the proceeding of the War I refer you to the History thereof written at
keenly as they who had laid down their Arms in Cornwal These were the most important Fights in the Year 1644. and the King was yet as both himself and others thought in as good condition as the Parliament which despair'd of Victory by the Commanders they then used Therefore they voted a new modeling of the Army suspecting the Earl of Essex though I think wrongfully to be too much a Royalist for not having done so much as they looked for in this second Battle at Newbury The Earls of Essex and Manchester perceiving what they went about voluntarily laid down their Commissions and the House of Commons made an Ordinance That no Member of either House should enjoy any Office or Command Military or Civil with which oblique blow they shook off those that had hitherto served them too well and yet out of this Ordinance they excepted Oliver Cromwel in whose Conduct and Valor they had very great confidence which they would not have done if they had known him as well then as they did afterwards and made him Lieutenant-General to Sir Thomas Fairfax their new made General In the Commission to the Earl of Essex there was a Clause for preservation of his Majesties Person which in this new Commission was left out though the Parliament as well as the General were as yet Presbyterian B. It seems the Presbyterians also in order to their ends would fain have had the King murdered A. For my part I doubt it not For a Rightful King living an usurping Power can never be sufficiently secur'd In this same Year the Parliament put to death Sir John Hotham and his Son for tampering with the Earl of New-Castle about the Rendition of Hull and Sir Alexander Carew for endeavouring to deliver up Plimouth where he was Governour for the Parliament and the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury for nothing but to please the Scots For the general Article of going about to subvert the fundamental Laws of the Land was no Accusation but only foul words They then also voted down the Book of Common-Prayer and ordered the use of a Directory which had been newly composed by an Assembly of Presbyterian Ministers They were also then with much ado prevailed with for a Treaty with the King at Vxbridge where they remitted nothing of their former Demands The King had also at this time a Parliament at Oxford consisting of such discontented Members as had left the Houses at Westminster but few of them had changed their old Principles and therefore that Parliament was not much worth Nay rather because they endeavour'd nothing but Messages and Treaties that is to say defeating of the Soldiers hope of benefit by the War they were thought by most men to do the King more hurt than good The Year 1645. was to the King very unfortunate for by the loss of one great Battle he lost all he had formerly gotten and at length his life The new model'd Army after Consultation whether they should lay Siege to Oxford or march Westward to the relief of Taunton then besieged by the Lord Goring and defended by Blake famous afterward for his Actions at Sea resolved for Taunton leaving Cromwel to attend the motions of the King though not strong enough to hinder him The King upon this advantage drew his Forces and Artillery out of Oxford This made the Parliament to call back their General Fairfax and order him to besiege Oxford The King in the mean time relieved Chester which was besieged by Sir William Brereton and coming back took Leicester by force a Place of great Importance and well provided of Artillery and Provision Upon this Success it was generally thought that the King's Party was the stronger The King himself thought so and the Parliament in a manner confess'd the same by commanding Fairfax to rise from the Siege and endeavour to give the King battle for the Successes of the King and the Divisions and Treacheries growing now amongst themselves had driven them to rely upon the fortune of one day in which at Naseby the Kings Army was utterly overthrown and no hope left him to raise another Therefore after the Battle he went up and down doing the Parliament here and there some shrewd turns but never much encreasing his number Fairfax in the mean time first recovered Leicester and then marching into the West subdued it all except only a few Places forcing with much ado my Lord Hopton upon Honourable Conditions to disband his Army and with the Prince of Wales to pass over to Scilly whence not long after they went to Paris In April 1646. General Fairfax began to march back to Oxford In the mean time Rainsborough who besieged Woodstock had it surrendered The King therefore who was now also returned to Oxford from whence Woodstock is but six Miles not doubting but that he should there by Fairfax be besieged and having no Army to relieve him resolved to get away disguis'd to the Scotch Army about Newark and thither he came the fourth of May and the Scotch Army being upon remove homewards carried him with them to New-Castle whither he came May 13 th B. Why did the King trust himself with the Scots They were the first that rebell'd They were Presbyterians i. e. cruel besides they were indigent and consequently might be suspected would sell him to his Enemies for Money And lastly they were too weak to defend him or keep him in their Countrey A. What could he have done better for he had in the Winter before sent to the Parliament to get a Pass for the Duke of Richmond and others to bring them Propositions of Peace It was denied He sent again it was denied again Then he desir'd he might come to them in Person This also was denied He sent again and again to the same purpose but in stead of granting it they made an Ordinance That the Commanders of the Militia of London in case the King should attempt to come within the Line of Communication should raise what force they thought fit to suppress Tumults to apprehend such as came with him and to secure i. e. to imprison his Person from danger If the King had adventured to come and had been imprisoned What could the Parliament have done with him They had dethron'd him by their Votes and therefore could have no security whilst he liv'd though in prison It may be they would not have put him to death by a High Court of Justice publickly but secretly some other way B. He should have attempted to get beyond Sea A. That had been from Oxford very difficult Besides it was generally believ'd that the Scotch Army had promised him that not only his Majesty but also his Friends that should come with him should be in their Army safe not only for their Persons but also for their Honours and Consciences 'T is a pretty trick when the Army and the particular Soldiers of the Army are different things to make the Soldiers promise what the Army means not
to perform July the 11 th the Parliament sent their Propositions to the King at New-Castle which Propositions they pretended to be the only way to a setled and well grounded Peace They were brought by the Earl of Pembroke the Earl of Suffolk Sir Walter Earle Sir John Hyppesly Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Robinson whom the King asked if they had power to Treat and when they said no why they might not as well have been sent by a Trumpeter The Propositions were the same dethroning ones which they used to send and therefore the King would not assent to them Nor did the Scots swallow them at first but made some exceptions against them only it seems to make the Parliament perceive they meant not to put the King into their hands gratis And so at last the bargain was made between them and upon the payment of 200000 l. the King was put into the hands of the Commissioners which the English Parliament sent down to receive him B. What a vile Complexion has this Action compounded of feigned Religion and very Covetousness Cowardice Perjury and Treachery A. Now the War that seemed to justifie many unseemly things is ended you will see almost nothing else in these Rebels but baseness and falseness besides their folly By this time the Parliament had taken in all the rest of the Kings Garrisons whereof the last was Pendennis Castle whither Duke Hamilton had been sent Prisoner by the King B. What was done during this time in Ireland and Scotland A. In Ireland there had been a Peace made by order from his Majesty for a time which by Divisions amongst the Irish was ill kept the Popish Party the Pope's Nuntio being then there took this to be the time for delivering themselves from their subjection to the English Besides the time of the Peace was now expir'd B. How were they subject to the English more than the English to the Irish They were subject to the King of England but so also were the English to the King of Ireland A. This Distinction is somewhat too subtil for common Understandings In Scotland the Marquess of Montrosse for the King with a very few Men and miraculous Victories had over-run all Scotland where many of his Forces out of too much security were permitted to be absent for a while of which the Enemy having Intelligence suddenly came upon them and forced them to fly back into the Highlands to recruit where he began to recover strength when he was commanded by the King then in the hands of the Scots at New-Castle to disband and he departed from Scotland by Sea In the end of the same year 1646. the Parliament caused the Kings Great Seal to be broken also the King was brought to Holmeby and there kept by the Parliaments Commissioners and here was an end of that War as to England and Scotland but not to Ireland About this time also died the Earl of Essex whom the Parliament had discarded B. Now that there was peace in England and the King in prison in whom was the Sovereign Power A. The Right was certainly in the King but the Exercise was yet in no body but contended for as in a Game at Cards without fighting all the years 1647. and 1648. between the Parliament and Oliver Cromwel Lieutenant-General to Sir Thomas Fairfax You must know that when King Henry the 8 th abolished the Popes Authority here and took upon him to be the Head of the Church the Bishops as they could not resist him so neither were they discontented with it For whereas before the Pope allowed not the Bishops to claim Jurisdiction in their Diocesses Jure Divino that is of Right immediately from God but by the Gift and Authority of the Pope now that the Pope was outed they made no doubt but the Divine Right was in themselves After this the City of Geneva and divers other places beyond Sea having revolted from the Papacy set up Presbyteries for the Government of their several Churches and divers English Scholars that went beyond Sea during the persecution in the time of Queen Mary were much taken with this Government and at their return in the time of Queen Elizabeth and ever since have endeavour'd to the great trouble of the Church and Nation to set up that Government here wherein they might domineer and applaud their own Wit and Learning and these took upon them not only a Divine Right but also a Divine Inspiration and having been connived at and countenanced sometimes in their frequent preaching they introduced many strange and many pernicious Doctrines out-doing the Reformation as they pretended both of Luther and Calvin receding from the former Divinity or Church-Philosophy for Religion is another thing as much as Luther and Calvin had receded from the Pope and distracted their Auditors into a great number of Sects as Brownists Anabaptists Independents Fifth-monarchy-men Quakers and divers others all commonly called by the name of Fanaticks in so much as there was no so dangerous an Enemy to the Presbyterians as this brood of their own hatching These were Cromwel's best Cards whereof he had a very great number in the Army and some in the House whereof he himself was thought one though he were nothing certain but applying himself always to the Faction that was strongest was of a colour like it There were in the Army a great number if not the greatest part that aimed only at rapine and sharing the Lands and Goods of their Enemies and these also upon the opinion they had of Cromwel's Valor and Conduct thought they could not any way better arrive at their ends than by adhering to him Lastly in the Parliament it self though not the Major part yet a considerable number were Fanaticks enough to put in doubts and cause delay in the resolutions of the House and sometimes also by advantage of a thin House to carry a Vote in favour of Cromwel as they did upon the 26 th of July For whereas on the fourth of May precedent the Parliament had voted that the Militia of London should be in the hands of a Committee of Citizens whereof the Lord Major for the time being should be one shortly after the Independents chancing to be the major made an Ordinance by which it was put into hands more favourable to the Army The best Cards the Parliament had were the City of London and the Person of the King The General Sir Tho. Fairfax was right Presbyterian but in the hands of the Army and the Army in the hands of Cromwel but which Party should prevail depended on the playing of the Game Cromwel protested still obedience and fidelity to the Parliament but meaning nothing less bethought him and resolv'd on a way to excuse himself of all that he should do to the contrary upon the Army Therefore he and his Son-in-law Commissary-General Ireton as good at contriving as himself and at speaking and writing better contrive how to mutiny the Army against the Parliament To
forth they were erecting that High Court of Justice which took away the Lives of Duke Hamilton the Earl of Holland and the Lord Capel Whatsoever they meant by a fundamental Law the erecting of this Court was a breach of it as being warranted by no former Law or Example in England At the same time also they Levied Taxes by Soldiers and to Soldiers permitted Free quarter and did many other Actions which if the King had done they would have said had been done against the Liberty and Propriety of the Subject B. What silly things are the common sort of people to be cozened as they were so grosly A. What sort of people as to this matter are not of the common sort The craftiest Knaves of all the Rump were no wiser than the rest whom they cozened for the most of them did believe that the same things which they imposed upon the generality were just and reasonable and especially the great Haranguers and such as pretended to Learning for who can be a good Subject in a Monarchy whose Principles are taken from the Enemies of Monarchy such as were Cicero Seneca Cato and other Politicians of Rome and Aristotle of Athens who seldom spake of Kings but as of Wolves and other ravenous Beasts You may perhaps think a man has need of nothing else to know the Duty he owes to his Governour and what Right he has to order him but a good Natural Wit but it is otherwise for it is a Science and built upon sure and clear Principles and to be learned by deep and careful study or from Masters that have deeply studied it and who was there in the Parliament or in the Nation that could find out those evident Principles and derive from them the necessary Rules of Justice and the necessary Connexion of Justice and Peace The People have one day in seven the leisure to hear Instruction and there are Ministers appointed to teach them their Duty but how have those Ministers performed their Office A great part of them namely the Presbyterian Ministers throughout the whole War instigated the People against the King so did also Independents and other Fanatick Ministers The rest contented with their Livings preached in their Parishes Points of Controversie to Religion impertinent but to the breach of Charity among them selves very effectual or else eloquent things which the People either understood not or thought themselves not concerned in But this sort of Preachers as they did little good so they did little hurt The mischief proceeded wholly from the Presbyterian Preachers who by a long practiced Histrionique faculty preached up the Rebellion powerfully B. To what end A. To the end that the State becoming popular the Church might be so too and governed by an Assembly and by consequence as they thought seeing Politicks are subservient to Religion they might govern and thereby satisfie not only their covetous humour with Riches but also their malice with power to undo all men that admir'd not their wisdom Your calling the People silly things obliged me by this Digression to shew you that it is not want of Wit but want of the Science of Justice that brought them into these troubles Perswade if you can that man that has made his fortune or made it greater or an Eloquent Orator or a Ravishing Poet or a subtil Lawyer or but a good Hunter or a cunning Gamester that he has not a good Wit and yet there were of all these a great many so silly as to be deceiv'd by the Rump and Members of the same Rump They wanted not Wit but the knowledge of the Causes and Grounds upon which one Person has a Right to govern and the rest an Obligation to obey which Grounds are necessary to be taught the People who without them cannot live long in peace amongst themselves B. Let us return if you please to the Proceedings of the Rump A. In the rest of this year they voted a new Stamp for the Coyn of this Nation They considered also of Agents to be sent to Forreign States and having lately receiv'd applause from the Army for their work done by the High Court of Justice and encouragement to extend the same farther they perfected the said High Court of Justice in which were tryed Duke Hamilton the Earl of Holland Lord Capel the Earl of Norwich and Sir John Owen whereof as I mentioned before the three first were beheaded This affrighted divers of the King's Party out of the Land for not only they but all that had born Arms for the King were at that time in very great danger of their Lives For it was put to the question by the Army at a Councel of War whether they should be all Massacred or no where the Noes carried it but by two Voices Lastly March the 24 th they put the Major of London out of his Office fined him 2000 l. disfranchised him and condemned him to two months Imprisonment in the Tower for refusing to proclaim the Act for abolishing the Kingly Power And thus ended the year 1648. and the Monthly Fast God having granted that which they fasted for the Death of the King and the Possession of his Inheritance By these their Proceedings they had already lost the Hearts of the generality of the People and had nothing to trust to but the Army which was not in their power but in Cromwel's who never failed when there was occasion to put them upon all Exploits that might make them odious to the people in order to his future dissolving them whensoever it should conduce to his ends In the beginning of 1649. the Scots discontented with the Proceedings of the Rump against the late King began to Levy Soldiers in order to a new Invasion of England The Irish Rebels for want of timely resistance from England were grown terrible and the English Army at home infected by the Adjutators were casting how to share the Land amongst the Godly meaning themselves and such others as they pleased who were therefore called Levellers Also the Rump for the present were not very well provided of Money and therefore the first thing they did was the laying of a Tax upon the People of 90000 l. a month for the maintenance of the Army B. Was it not one of their quarrels with the King That he had Levied Money without the consent of the People in Parliament A. You may see by this what reason the Rump had to call it self a Parliament for the Taxes imposed by Parliament were always understood to be by the Peoples consent and consequently Legal To appease the Scots they sent Messengers with flattering Letters to keep them from engaging for the present King but in vain for they would hear nothing from a House of Commons as they called it at Westminster without a King and Lords But they sent Commissioners to the King to let him know what they were doing for him for they were resolv'd to raise an Army of 17000 Foot and
6000 Horse for themselves To relieve Ireland the Rump had resolved to send eleven Regiments thither out of the Army in England This hap'ned well for Cromwel for the Levelling Soldiers which were in every Regiment many and in some the major part finding that in stead of dividing the Land at home they were to venture their Lives in Ireland flatly denied to go and one Regiment having cashier'd their Collonel about Salisbury was marching to joyn with three Regiments more of the same Resolution but both the General and Cromwel falling upon them at Burford utterly defeated them and soon after reduced the whole Army to their obedience And thus another of the Impediments to Cromwel's Advancement was soon removed This done they came to Oxford and thence to London and at Oxford both the General and Cromwel were made Doctors of the Civil Law and at London feasted and presented by the City B. Were they not first made Masters and then Doctors A. They had made themselves already Masters both of the Laws and Parliament The Army being now obedient the Rump sent over those eleven Regiments into Ireland under the Command of Dr. Cromwel intituled Governour of that Kingdom the Lord Fairfax being still General of all the Forces both here and there The Marquess now Duke of Ormond was the King's Lieutenant of Ireland and the Rebels had made a Confederacy amongst themselves and these Confederates had made a kind of League with the Lieutenant wherein they agreed upon liberty given them in the exercise of their Religion to be faithful to and assist the King To these also were joyned some Forces raised by the Earls of Castlehaven and Clanricard and my Lord Inchiquin so that they were the greatest united strength in the Island but there were amongst them a great many other Papists that would by no means subject themselves to Protestants and these were called the Nuntio's Party as the other were called the Confederate Party These Parties not agreeing and the Confederate Party having broken their Articles the Lord-Lieutenant seeing them ready to besiege him in Dublin and not able to defend it did to preserve the Place for the Protestants surrender it to the Parliament of England and came over to the King at that time when he was carried from place to place by the Army From England he went over to the Prince now King residing then at Paris But the Confederates affrighted with the News that the Rump was sending over an Army thither desir'd the Prince by Letters to send back my Lord of Ormond engaging themselves to submit absolutely to the King's Authority and to obey my Lord of Ormond as his Lieutenant And hereupon he was sent back this was about a year before the going over of Cromwel In which time by the Dissentions in Ireland between the Confederate Party and the Nuntio's Party and discontents about Command this otherwise sufficient power effected nothing and was at last defeated August the second by a Sally out of Dublin which they were besieging Within a few days after arrived Cromwel who with extraordinary diligence and horrid executions in less than a twelvemonth that he stayed there subdued in a manner the whole Nation having killed or exterminated a great part of them and leaving his Son-in-law Ireton to subdue the rest But Ireton dyed there before the business was quite done of the Plague This was one step more towards Cromwel's exaltation to the Throne B. What a miserable condition was Ireland reduced to by the Learning of the Roman as well as England was by the Learning of the Presbyterian Clergy A. In the latter end of the preceding year the King was come from Paris to the Hague and shortly after came thither from the Rump their Agent Dorislaus Doctor of the Civil Law who had been employed in the drawing up of the Charge against the late King but the first night he came as he was at Supper a Company of Cavaliers near a dozen entred his Chamber killed him and got away Not long after also their Agent at Madrid one Ascham one that had written in defence of his Masters was killed in the same manner About this time came out two Books one written by Salmasius a Presbyterian against the Murder of the King another written by Milton an English Independent in answer to it B. I have seen them both They are very good Latin both and hardly to be judged which is better and both very ill reasoning hardly to be judged which is worse like two Declamations Pro and Con made for exercise only in a Rhetorick School by one and the same Man So like is a Presbyterian to an Independent A. In this year the Rump did not much at home save that in the beginning they made England a Free State by an Act which runs thus Be it enacted and declar'd by this present Parliament and by the Authority thereof That the People of England and all the Dominions and Territories thereunto belonging are and shall be and are hereby constituted made and declared a Common-wealth and Free State c. B. What did they mean by a Free State and Common-wealth Were the People no longer to be subject to Laws They could not mean that for the Parliament meant to govern them by their own Laws and punish such as broke them Did they mean that England should not be subject to any Forreign Kingdom or Common-wealth That needed not be enacted seeing there was no King nor People pretended to be their Masters What did they mean then A. They meant that neither this King nor any King nor any single person but only that they themselves would be the Peoples Masters and would have set it down in those plain words if the People could have been cozned with words intelligible as easily as with words not intelligible After this they gave one another Money and Estates out of the Lands and Goods of the Loyal Party They enacted also an Engagement to be taken by every man in these words You shall promise to be true and faithful to the Common-wealth of England as it is now established without King or House of Lords They banished also from within 20 Miles of London all the Royal Party forbidding also every one of them to depart more than five Miles from his Dwelling house B. They meant perhaps to have them ready if need were for a Massacre But what did the Scots in this time A. They were considering of the Officers of the Army which they were Levying for the King how they might exclude from Command all such as had loyally serv'd his Father and all Independents and all such as commanded in Duke Hamilton's Army and these were the main things that passed this year The Marquess of Montrosse that in the year 1645. had with a few men and in little time done things almost incredible against the late King's Enemies in Scotland landed now again in the beginning of the year 1650. in the North of Scotland with
Commission from the present King hoping to do him as good Service as he had formerly done his Father but the Case was altered for the Scotch Forces were then in England in the Service of the Parliament whereas now they were in Scotland and many more for their intended Invasion newly raised Besides the Soldiers which the Marquess brought over were few and Forreigners nor did the Highlanders come in to him as he expected in so much as he was soon defeated and shortly after taken and with more spightful usage than revenge requir'd executed by the Covenanters at Edenburgh May 2. B. What good could the King expect from joyning with these men who during the Treaty discovered so much malice to him in one of his best Servants A. No doubt their Church-men being then prevalent they would have done as much to this King as the English Parliament had done to his Father if they could have gotten by it that which they foolishly aspir'd to the Government of the Nation I do not believe that the Independents were worse than the Presbyterians both the one and the other were resolv'd to destroy whatsoever should stand in the way to their Ambition but necessity made the King pass over both this and many other Indignities from them rather than suffer the pursuit of his Right in England to cool and be little better than extinguished B. Indeed I believe a Kingdom if suffered to become an old Debt will hardly ever be recover'd Besides the King was sure wheresoever the Victory lighted he could lose nothing in the War but Enemies A. About the time of Montrosse his death which was in May Cromwel was yet in Ireland and his work unfinished but finding or by his Friends advertised that his presence in the Expedition now preparing against the Scots would be necessary to his design sent to the Rump to know their pleasure concerning his return but for all that he knew or thought it was not necessary to stay for their Answer but came away and arriv'd at London the sixth of June following and was welcomed by the Rump Now had General Fairfax who was truly what he pretended to be a Presbyterian been so catechis'd by the Presbyterian Ministers here that he refus'd to fight against the Brethren in Scotland nor did the Rump nor Cromwel go about to rectifie his Conscience in that Point and thus Fairfax laying down his Commission Cromwel was now made General of all the Forces in England and Ireland which was another Step to the Sovereign Power B. Where was the King A. In Scotland newly come over He landed in the North and was honourably conducted to Edenburgh though all things were not yet well agreed on between the Scots and him for though he had yielded to as hard Conditions as the late King had yielded to in the Isle of Wight yet they had still somewhat to add till the King enduring no more departed from them towards the North again But they sent Messengers after him to pray him to return but they furnished these Messengers with strength enough to bring him back if he should have refused In fine they agreed but would not suffer either the King or any Royalist to have Command in the Army B. The sum of all is the King was there a Prisoner A. Cromwel from Barwick sends a Declaration to the Scots telling them he had no quarrel against the People of Scotland but against the Malignant Party that had brought in the King to the disturbance of the Peace between the two Nations and that he was willing either by Conference to give and receive satisfaction or to decide the Justice of the Cause by Battle To which the Scots answering declare That they will not prosecute the King's Interest before and without his acknowledgment of the sins of his House and his former ways and satisfaction given to God's People in both Kingdoms Judge by this whether the present King were not in as bad a condition here as his Father was in the hands of the Presbyterians of England B. Presbyterians are every where the same they would fain be absolute Governours of all they converse with and have nothing to plead for it but that where they Reign 't is God that Reigns and no where else but I observe one strange Demand that the King should acknowledge the sins of his House for I thought it had been certainly held by all Divines that no man was bound to acknowledge any man's sins but his own A. The King having yielded to all that the Church requir'd the Scots proceeded in their intended War Cromwel marched on to Edenburgh provoking them all he could to Battle which they declining and Provisions growing scarce in the English Army Cromwel retir'd to Dunbar despairing of success and intending by Sea or Land to get back into England And such was the Condition which this General Cromwel so much magnified for Conduct had brought his Army to that all his Glories had ended in Shame and Punishment if Fortune and the faults of his Enemies had not relieved him For as he retir'd the Scots followed him close all the way till within a Mile of Dunbar There is a ridge of Hills that from beyond Edenburgh goes winding to the Sea and crosses the High-way between Dunbar and Barwick at a Village called Copperspeith where the passage is so difficult that had the Scots sent timely thither a very few men to guard it the English could never have gotten home For the Scots kept the Hills and needed not have fought but upon great advantage and were almost two to one Cromwell's Army was at the foot of those Hills on the North side and there was a great Ditch or Channel of a Torrent between the Hills and it so that he could never have got home by Land nor without utter ruine of the Army attempted to Ship it nor have stayed where he was for want of Provisions Now Cromwel knowing the Pass was free and commanding a good Party of Horse and foot to possess it it was necessary for the Scots to let them go whom they bragged they had impounded or else to fight and therefore with the best of their Horse charged the English and made them at first to shrink a little but the English Foot coming on the Scots were put to flight and the flight of the Horse hindered the Foot from engaging who therefore fled as did also the rest of their Horse Thus the folly of the Scottish Commanders brought all their odds to an even Lay between two small and equal Parties wherein Fortune gave the Victory to the English who were not many more in number than those that were killed and taken Prisoners of the Scots and the Church lost their Canon Bag and Baggage with 10000 Arms and almost their whole Army The rest were got together by Lesly to Sterling B. This Victory happened well for the King for had the Scots been Victors the Presbyterians both here and there would
General Councils the Power of the Roman Church grew up a pace and either by the negligence or weakness of the succeeding Emperors the Pope did what he pleased in Religion There was no Doctrine which tended to the Power Ecclesiastical or to the Reverence of the Clergy the contradiction whereof was not by one Council or another made Heresie and punished arbitrarily by the Emperors with Banishment or Death And at last Kings themselves and Commonwealths unless they purged their Dominions of Hereticks were Excommunicated Interdicted and their Subjects let loose upon them by the Pope insomuch as to an ingenuous and serious Christian there was nothing so dangerous as to enquire concerning his own Salvation of the Holy Scripture the careless cold Christian was safe and the skilful Hypocrite a Saint But this is a Story so well known as I need not insist upon it any longer but proceed to the Hereticks here in England and what Punishments were ordained for them by Acts of Parliament All this while the Penal Laws against Hereticks were such as the several Princes and States in their own Dominions thought fit to enact The Edicts of the Emperors made their Punishments Capital but for the manner of the Execution left it to the Prefects of Provinces And when other Kings and States intended according to the Laws of the Roman Church to extirpate Hereticks they ordained such Punishment as they pleased The first Law that was here made for the punishments of Hereticks called Lollards and mentioned in the Statutes was in the fifth year of the Reign of Richard the Second occasioned by the Doctrine of John Wickliff and his Followers which Wickliff because no Law was yet ordained for his punishment in Parliament by the favour of John of Gaunt the King's Son during the Reign of Edward the third had escaped But in the fifth year of the next King which was Richard the Second there passed an Act of Parliament to this effect That Sheriffs and some others should have Commissions to apprehend such as were certified by the Prelates to be Preachers of Heresie their Fautors Maintainers and Abettors and to hold them in strong Prison till they should justifie themselves according to the Law of Holy Church So that hitherto there was no Law in England by which a Heretick could be put to Death or otherways punished than by imprisoning him till he was reconciled to the Church After this in the next King's Reign which was Henry the Fourth Son of John of Gaunt by whom Wickliffe had been favoured and who in his aspiring to the Crown had needed the good Will of the Bishops was made a Law in the second Year of his Reign wherein it was Enacted That every Ordinary may convene before him and imprison any person suspected of Heresie and that an obstinate Heretick shall be burnt before the People In the next King's Reign which was Henry the Fifth in his Second year was made an Act of Parliament wherein it is declared that the intent of Hereticks called Lollards was to subvert the Christian Faith the Law of God the Church and the Realm And that an Heretick convict should forfeit all his Fee-simple Lands Goods and Chattels besides the Punishment of Burning Again in the Five and Twentieth year of King Henry the Eighth it was Enacted That an Heretick convict shall abjure his Heresies and refusing so to do or relapsing shall be burnt in open place for example of others This Act was made after the putting down of the Pope's Authority And by this it appears that King Henry the Eighth intended no farther alteration in Religion than the recovering of his own Right Ecclesiastical But in the first year of his Son King Edward the sixth was made an Act by which were repealed not only this Act but also all former Acts concerning Doctrines or matters of Religion So that at this time there was no Law at all for the punishment of Hereticks Again in the Parliament of the first and second year of Queen Mary this Act of 1 Ed. 6. was not repealed but made useless by reviving the Statute of 25 Hen. 8. and freely put it in execution insomuch as it was Debated Whether or no they should proceed upon that Statute against the Lady Elizabeth the Queens Sister The Lady Elizabeth not long after by the Death of Queen Mary coming to the Crown in the fifth year of her Reign by Act of Parliament repealed in the first place all the Laws Ecclesiastical of Queen Mary with all other former Laws concerning the punishments of Hereticks nor did she enact any other punishments in their place In the second place it was Enacted That the Queen by her Letters Patents should give a Commission to the Bishops with certain other persons in her Majesties Name to execute the Power Ecclesiastical in which Commission the Commissioners were forbidden to adjudge any thing to be Heresie which was not declared to be Heresie by some of the first four General Councels But there was no mention made of General Councels but only in that branch of the Act which Authorised that Commission commonly called The High Commission nor was there in that Commission any thing concerning how Hereticks were to be punished but it was granted to them that they might declare or not declare as they pleased to be Heresie or not Heresie any of those Doctrines which had been Condemned for Heresie in the first four General Councels So that during the time that the said High Commission was in being there was no Statute by which a Heretick could be punished otherways than by the ordinary Censures of the Church nor Doctrine accounted Heresie unless the Commissioners had actually declared and published That all that which was made Heresie by those Four Councels should be Heresie also now But I never heard that any such Declaration was made either by Proclamation or by Recording it in Churches or by publick Printing as in penal Laws is necessary the breaches of it are excused by ignorance Besides if Heresie had been made Capital or otherwise civilly punishable either the Four General Councels themselves or at least the Points condemned in them ought to have been Printed or put into Parish Churches in English because without it no man could know how to beware of offending against them Some men may perhaps ask whether no body were Condemned and Burnt for Heresie during the time of the High Commission I have heard there were But they which approve such executions may peradventure know better grounds for them than I do but those grounds are very well worthy to be enquired after Lastly in the seventeenth year of the Reign of King Charles the First shortly after that the Scots had Rebelliously put down the Episcopal Government in Scotland the Presbyterians of England endeavoured the same here The King though he saw the Rebels ready to take the Field would not condescend to that but yet in hope to appease them was content to pass an